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Aug 14, 2012

Can Labor win? Yes it can

As Labor begins the process of defusing carbon tax and asylum seeker policy as election issues, Tony Abbott's task will become increasingly painful. Does Labor improve from here?


The Labor Party’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind win at next year’s election took a big step forward yesterday with two expert panel reports, both of which would have been in line with the old dictum of “never have an inquiry unless you know the answer first”.

One deals with the problem of mobile capital, the other deals with the problem of mobile people. Both were hurting Labor, and both have been neutralised.

Separately the government is also reported to be planning to scrap the $15 a tonne floor price on carbon emissions trading from 2015 and replace it with a link to the European ETS, where permits are currently selling for less than $10.

Can the ALP really win? Definitely. The main problems remain the morale of the ALP itself, and Julia Gillard’s lack of public authenticity, stemming partly from the broken promise on carbon tax and her opposition to gay marriage and partly from her robotic style.

Against that, the economy is travelling very well indeed and the Coalition has a very big looming problem funding handouts without the taxes (carbon tax and mining tax) that go with them. The hole is said to be $70 billion, which will have to come from spending cuts or other taxes.

Gillard and Wayne Swan believe that if they neutralise boats and company tax as issues, then the $70 billion hole will sink Tony Abbott.

Also, they hope the carbon tax will be less of an issue because a growing number of emitting companies are already making a profit out of it. That’s because the compensation for trade-exposed firms is fixed for five years based on old industry averages; many are now emitting much less greenhouse gas and are ahead on the deal. They will squawk if Abbott repeals it.

What’s more, Abbott won’t be able to repeal it before 2015 because of the need for another election to do it, by which time companies may be buying cheap European permits.

That leaves boat people and company tax.

The review of asylum seeker policy led by Angus Houston has provided cover for the re-opening of the Nauru processing centre, no doubt as intended. It ensures that new legislation for offshore processing will pass parliament with Coalition support.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott would have read yesterday’s Houston Report with a sinking feeling: it means “Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much he claims credit for it.

The Nauru/Malaysia impasse was hurting Labor the most because policy failures are always, rightly, blamed on the government of the day; the Coalition was being rewarded for intransigence.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard had to find a way to cave and Houston has provided it, as both sides of politics would have known he would. No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats, only that government legislation re-established offshore processing, thus removing asylum seekers from the Australian legal system.

It also helps distance the ALP from its damaging partnership with the Greens, who are sticking with their opposition to offshore processing.

Meanwhile mobile capital may been neutralised as an issue by the Business Tax Working Group, led by Chris Jordon, which has dusted off the old roadmap for Australia to join the global contest for capital through lower company tax rates, by removing a lot of depreciation allowances.

The fact is that a company tax rate is easy for foreign CEOs to understand while depreciation is complicated and opaque.

The intellectual argument for reducing targeted depreciation allowances to pay for a general cut in the company tax rate includes the idea that it would even things up between tangible and intangible assets. As yesterday’s report says: “The working group is also mindful of the growing importance of intangible assets in the generation of corporate profit. Intangible assets include brands, intellectual property, customer lists, internal processes, and copyrights which are often the result of investments such as R&D and marketing.”

Anyway, by suggesting that a company tax rate cut be financed by slicing depreciation and R&D allowances, Chris Jordan’s group has turned the debate from one between the government and business to one within business — basically between miners and the rest.

Thank you Chris. Thank you Angus. Now for some acting lessons.

*This article was originally published at Business Spectator


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131 thoughts on “Can Labor win? Yes it can

  1. IC-1101

    Is this a joke…?

    “Opposition leader Tony Abbott would have read yesterday’s Houston Report with a sinking feeling: it means “Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much he claims credit for it.”

    What a pathetic, grubby rhetoric. Crikey is losing me by the day. The attacks on Abbott and the Coalition are relentless, while you always find ways to praise and hype the ALP. For an outlet so passionately in favour of the media inquiry, you’d think there’d be a little more balance and fairness in your arguments.

  2. Suzanne Blake

    Crickey cannot continue to have a stiff upper lip and support this Gillard corr upt dishonest shambles.

    It must be absolutely toxic in Caucus. They will have Gillard clean out the garbage, take the fall and hope a ‘white knight’ can save them.

    Who will take the hospital pass. Crean is my tip

  3. John64

    “That’s because the compensation for trade-exposed firms is fixed for five years based on old industry averages; many are now emitting much less greenhouse gas and are ahead on the deal. They will squawk if Abbott repeals it.”

    Abbott’s probably banking on it. Let’s face it, companies making millions of dollars out of taxpayer subsidies that Abbott wants to revoke – won’t make Abbott look bad.

    “No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats”

    People will remember, much like they’ll remember Gillard promising not to introduce the Carbon Tax. People will remember that it took Labor 5 years to finally re-instate the Pacific solution that they abolished in the first place. Here’s a public exercise you can try: Find a random stranger and say “Nauru”. Now see if they remember -> John Howard, Liberal Party.

    Thanks to Labor’s constant talking about it, it’s firmly fixed in people’s minds that Labor was against it. “It wouldn’t work” and every day it does, you’ll have Scott Morrison crowing about it.

    Plus we’ve already seen footage in the media of Gillard railing against Nauru back in 2003. Once again, it’s something that makes her look like a flake (which is how it was protrayed incidentally) – promise one thing, deliver the opposite.

    We now have a Government that introduced a Carbon Tax it didn’t want to (because of the Greens) and an Asylum Seeker policy it said wouldn’t work (because of the Liberals, sorry I mean “expert panel”)… They don’t appear to be in control.

  4. John64

    Oh and I forgot to add… Everyone in the Labor party will be pissed that Gillard’s about to re-instate one of the Liberal party’s key policies. Those on the left in Kevin’s camp who wanted to go softly-softly will hate it, and those on the right who just hate everything Liberal will hate it.

  5. Patriot

    Backflipping, Iying Gillard will never be forgiven by voters for her backflips and Iies. She is unelectable. It’s just that simple.

  6. Billy Blogs

    This is Crikey and our ABC at their very best. Alan Kohler is but another ALPBC cheer leader dearly hoping that a putrid govt can find a way to con another term out of us.
    Gillard’s rein is about to end. She’s going to be forever known as the single worst PM our country has ever seen…..yet around here and on the ABC you’d be forgiven for thinking she has saved us.

    Between her and Rudd they’ve cost us billions of dollars and hundreds of lives. The reason we have new GBNT is because they have zero ability with money. And what we’re seeing with the economic management is but the tip of the berg.

    Like former labor state’s, the reality takes a loooong time to reveal itself.

    There is nothing that Labor, the greens or the ABC can do to stop this mob being tossed out on their sorry arses.

  7. Sancho

    Tony who?

    Are we talking about the amateur triathlete who pops up occasionally to talk about virginity and try to get birth control outlawed?

    The Liberal Party seems keen to keep him out of the media, so he must be a liability.

  8. Gocomsys

    This is not a competition. It is not a game. It is not about winning or loosing. Simply a matter of reasonable progressive “achievable” policies versus regressive party political short sighted and purely power driven motives cheered on by the usual vested interests.
    My Crikey renewal is due shortly. These days I get better and more balanced information from other sources, like this one: (please copy and paste)


    It is always annoying to be constantly reminded by some brainless posters how misinformed and ignorant the general public has become.

  9. Suzanne Blake

    @ Billy Blogs

    Here Here.

    About time we got more sane people on Crickey, cause its 98% loony Greens and ALP rusted on right now.

  10. Mr Denmore

    You know the Libs are worried, because their paid trolls on forums like these are sounding increasingly histrionic. Goodnight Tony.

  11. Gocomsys

    This is not a competition. It is not a game. It is not about winning or loosing. Simply a matter of reasonable progressive “achievable” policies versus regressive party political short sighted and purely power driven motives cheered on by the usual vested interests.
    My Crikey renewal is due shortly. These days I get better and more balanced information from other sources, like this one: (please copy and paste)


    It is always annoying to be constantly reminded by some brainless posters how misinformed and ignorant the general public has become.

    Another reason not to renew my subscription is the ridiculous post censorship!

  12. Karen

    @ SB – you are positively seething – spitting chips – LOL.

    Clearly, dishonesty and corruption don’t bother you, otherwise you would be voting Labor. Everything that comes out of Abbott’s mouth, whether its the impact of the carbon tax, the economy which is going great guns, the latest l * es from Abbott about what even the Houston report says about Malaysia in particular, is a big fat l *ie.

    Apart from which, you haven’t produced a scintilla of evidence to say where the government has been dishonest, much less corrupt. And don’t bang on about the carbon tax because Gillard was always honest in saying she was going to price carbon, which she did before the election. I don’t think I have come across a more rigid, conservative, one-eyed, concrete thinker, ever.

  13. WTF

    And against the same unpalatable reality, the same mob touted exactly the same idealistic sentiments less than a year ago in Queensland about Anna .. whateva her name was.
    Good luck with your predictions!

  14. Billy Blogs

    @Suzanne Blake
    I used to read Crikey quite a bit, but their constant desperate attempts to put a shine on a turd chased me away. I decided this morning to have another look to see if it were possible to find a positive from Labor’s latest disaster and, voila, as expected it was front and centre – first cab off the rank.

    I’ll be back again next time there’s another ALP destroying scandal – because as sure as night follows day, it won’t be far away.

  15. Suzanne Blake

    @ Billy Blogs

    Please don’t leave its lonely here…….

    Wall to Wall ALP, Green staffers, spin merchants, blinkered loonies.

  16. karldoh

    The sloganeers are out in force today. Personally I don’t think the government has been all that bad, and I’m talking about its legislative record, not the impressions of talkback callers.

    The carbon tax and asylum seeker policies John64 raises are good examples: they are not in control by definition, this is minority government.

    Gillard is no more a backflipper nor a liar than Howard was, and at least her lies didn’t lead us to any disastrous foreign wars.

  17. Thorn

    Houston’s Report was entirely predictable, and has highlighted the gap between the mainstream Australian political consensus on refugees and the Convention that established the concept of asylum. I understand the reasons why Labor has adopted the reports findings, and while I applaud their attempt to establish a real deterrent to seeking asylum by sending people arriving by boats to Malaysia; it is sad to see that a situation that represents such a tiny problem for Australia being instrumental in defining what kind of a people we are.

    I can see no reason at all why sending people to Nauru or PNG will affect the numbers of people willing to come here by boat. They will virtually all end up here anyway, and they know that – so why should this make them not attempt the journey? If the no-advantage thing is applied then we will end up supporting them on Nauru for as long as they would have spent waiting to be cleared to come here from Indonesia, and that will be years and years. If I was a refugee in Indonesia I would make the trip, get sent to Nauru and have all my needs met by the Australian Government for as long as it takes – it would sure beat having to scratch out a meagre survival in some slum in Indonesia. The no family reunion clause would be a nuisance rather than deterrent as well, and I don’t see how that could be carried forward for years anyway. Turning back the boats, while technically possible, is dependent upon the cooperation of the people on the boats and as this is entirely improbable this is patently no deterrent at all – and that is leaving aside the fact that Indonesia won’t accept them anyway.

    There is no reason why Labor couldn’t win the next election, especially with this issue defused, and as long as the Liberals stick with Abbott. He is such an obvious incompetent that he is the single biggest threat to Liberal victory next time. Electing Abbott would be the equivalent of electing Palin in the USA, and even the Yanks are not that stupid.

  18. Edward James

    The next most important ballot is local councils in NSW on September the 8. I hope Labor and their supporters will be put at the bottom on every ballot paper! Labor members have refused for years to clean out their garbage, so it is up to the voters to do that job for them! Edward James

  19. karldoh

    “Wall to Wall ALP, Green staffers, spin merchants, blinkered loonies.”

    I think we all know which one of these you are SB.

  20. Patriot

    Gillard Iie: “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead”.

  21. Karen

    Good piece Alan Kohler. Tells it like it is, unfortunately. Yes, it neutralises the asylum seeker issue for Labor to some extent, which was only ever a political issue pushed by the Libs and the MSN. Its a tragedy that JG felt so pushed by polls that she had no option but to pursue this course. What does it say about the public? But let there be no mistake that the Houston policy, in and of itself, is absolutely appalling.

    It is inhumane and punitive. The cost to the economy will be astronomical (it will cost billions over the forward estimates), not only in terms of off-shore accommodation, slow claims processing, and the attendant appalling deprivations and mental illness, which the Australian tax-payer will have to pay for. Frankly, the cost is morally and economically unsustainable.

    The cost is better absorbed with the no detention, on-shore processing model. Why? Asylum seekers will have better outcomes in Australia because they will be processed humanely and more quickly (thereby reducing the risks of illness). The consequences are obvious. They will be better able to establish themselves in businesses and the job market, which most immigrants do, thereby adding to society and the economy.

    On the other hand, you take broken people from an off-shore island, these people will end up on the mainland for the Australian to support for the rest of their lives. I wouldn’t be surprised, if such people or their families launch massive class actions against the government for maltreatment and mental illness that have rendered their lives unproductive and useless. We are just cutting off our noses to spite our faces on this issue. Hopeless.

  22. Billy Blogs

    @Suzanne Blake
    Ha, come with me. It’s better on the other side. The sun shines and the grass is green.

  23. jennatilz mckrackin

    Im sure crikey are quaking in their boots at threats of cancelling subscriptions by sycophantic trolls on a 30 day free trial.

  24. Karen

    @ Patriot – its not a tax, its a price signal within a carbon trading system that Gillard and Abbott supported, before Abbott sniffed the political winds and changed his mind. So, no lie.

  25. Suzanne Blake

    @ Billy Blogs

    What are the options?

  26. Karen

    @ SB – the only ‘blinkered loony’ is you.

  27. Patriot

    Gillard: “That works effectively like a tax

    Gillard: “We’re going to get there via a temporary carbon tax

    Enough of this, but. Off to work for me.

  28. Billy Blogs

    @jennatilz mckrackin
    You pay for this shit?

  29. Karen

    @ Patriot – yes, the price signal does work like a tax, initially, but then you build the rest of the trading system around it and it becomes a price. So, no lie. Mull on that, on your way to work.

  30. Patriot

    It is a carbon tax and she admitted it. See above.

  31. jennatilz mckrackin

    Run along Billy, if you want mindless partisan dribble, news ltd sites are for you.

  32. Billy Blogs

    @ jennatilz mckrackin I will – But let me leave you with this – Left wing extremism is just as dangerous as right wing extremism. One day you will have a Twilight Zone moment and realise that there is no difference between you and Tea Party members at the other end of the spectrum.
    By the time the ALP get this it will be far too late. While I’m not a massive supporter of Abbott, the first step is to get rid of the socialists. Then we can look at a more stable centrist govt. Toodaloo.

  33. Thorn

    This business of Labor Lies is just bizarre! Howard ‘lied’ so often that he had to invent the core and non core promise idea to cover for his dishonesty – and he lied because he just lied. Gillard made a promise based upon her party winning the election – and she did not win. The consequent policies were all part of the negotiation to form government, as was required after the election.

    The simple minded people that do not understand this should take the time to think.

  34. drmick

    Looks like the mad hatter and the rest of the local Tea Party are a little upset when some facts are introduced into the mix. Good.
    You know what they say, if you don’t like it here , you can always go back to where you came from.

  35. freshly cut grass

    So let me get this straight? Labor has an increased chance of being re-elected, because they are now pursuing and will implement policies that the Libs / Nats have been arguing for. And on the flipside, if an Abbot Govt does get elected, they won’t really have an opportunity to repeal th Carbon tax.

    What a fantastic outcome for the people. We have both major parties, offering very little in terms of difference. We are all the losers here.

    Arguing over any significant difference between these parties is a waste of time. They are both a joke, and the framing of the political ‘debate’ only distracts us from the elephant in the room – we are being duded by a two party dictatorship.

  36. geomac62

    Lonely SB ? You seem to have a few mates posting here today . Trouble is after the first read I realise its a repeat of what your mob has always been saying . Pointless inane slogans and venom with one exception being the risible comment about bias from 1C or is that 10cc . Whyalla is still on the map , doesn,t that make rabbit a L I A R ? After all the PM said she would put a price on carbon before the election yet she is accused of being the same as the rabbit because he calls it a tax . So the ” levy ” on business for paternity leave is really a tax to pay for well paid mothers who haven,t the nous to budget for a newborn . Well thats inequality isn,t it ? Pay one mother 10k because she is a cleaner but pay another 75k because has snagged a well paid job yet lacks the intellect to put away some money for a birth . Still thats the rabbit for you , thinks poll ies are underpaid yet constantly proves the opposite every time he opens his mouth . Hockey saying largesse must end and the rabbit saying it is endless while Robb says very little but wants to be shadow treasurer . Morrison says nothing of consequence but bile regularly emits from his mouth , almost as repulsive as Mirabella and Bernardi .
    Lonely SB ? Nah you will always have your pen pals and pseudonyms on Crikey . Even the malignant Bush had his cronies , the rodent too so you will have company , paid or otherwise .

  37. IC-1101


    People do think. No one brought up John Howard. Whenever someone has something negative to say about Gillard, ALP or Greens: “But, HURR DURR, JOHN HOWARD!”

    Who gives a shit about John Howard? Do you people realise that you can be against one thing, without necessarily being in favour of the other?

    It’s like, God forbid you be a fiscal conservative, but still be in favour of gay marriage. To ALP and Greens supporters, unless you support those political parties, it automatically means you’re an evil capitalist conservative… *sigh* There’s many a Coalition voter that leans that way for reasons other than what you might imagine. You’d be surprised how many gay LNP voters there are, for example. You’re the one being so closed-minded.


    You miss the point.

    Crikey is well within its right to publish stuff like this. It can be a spokesperson for the ALP and Greens if it wishes. But don’t be trying to set a moral benchmark about media performance when you contribute the same unbalanced, unfair political commentary as News Ltd outlets. What, because Crikey is decisively pro-ALP, pro-Greens, that makes it the “better” outlet? Why?

    If Crikey wants to cry about how unfair the mainstream media is, it might want to look at how unbalanced and left-leaning its own coverage is. It’s fine to be like that, but don’t be criticising others for doing the same thing, just because they disagree. That is EXACTLY what Crikey does.

    It’s as if Crikey thinks it knows best, so therefore it has the capacity to critique those that disagree. It’s exactly what is meant when some suggest the media inquiry compromised free speech.

    Anyway, back to the article…

    Julia Gillard has done an OK job…for those that lean to the left. People fail to understand that those on the right just don’t appreciate her fiscal achievements, much in the same way the left would never appreciate Coalition fiscal achievements. No one is perfect. Gillard will not win the next election. A better article might be to look at how the ALP can improve on its current positioning, and earn more seats than what is predicted.

    But to suggest she can win? Absolute garbage, and it dilutes any worth Crikey’s political opinion had.

    Can we please get an article tomorrow discussing why Gillard CAN’T win the next election? Wouldn’t that be the fair coverage Crikey so often cries out for?

    (PS. I don’t mean to seem so full of malice, it’s just that I am frustrated at how aggressively this outlet has critiqued mainstream outlets, when it seems to be just as guilty of the things it criticises so heavily).

  38. geomac62

    There are still vids of Abbott extolling the virtue of a carbon tax as the most efficient way to abate carbon emissions on youtube , not hard to find . What does that make him ? To me it makes him consistent because he consistently backtracks on what he has said , written or otherwise . Of course others would be less generous and make the accusations that are leveled at the PM but strangely the ones making those accusations wont do it to the rabbit . Thats another constant , repeat the slogans and never apply the same conditions to the rabbit as to others of another stripe .

  39. Suzanne Blake

    @ geomac62

    You better book a seat in the public gallery in Canberra, so you can see the finals weeks of Gillard on the front chair. Last photo op for you.

    If Pickering doesn’t get her, the Caucus will

  40. Suzanne Blake


    These days I get better and more balanced information from other sources, like this one: (please copy and paste)


    Why don’t you just stick with Green – Left News where Liz, Marilyn and Karen read?

  41. Suzanne Blake


    These days I get better and more balanced information from other sources, like this one: (please copy and paste)

    Why don’t you just stick with Green – Left News where Liz, Marilyn and Karen read?

  42. gikku

    Labor was elected in 2007 partly on a platform to restore decency, and to close Nauru processing.
    In 2012 an inquiry recommends reopening Nauru, and a return to the indecent past.
    Shame Labor Shame.

  43. geomac62

    Thank you for validating my point about repeating . Whats this make it ? 50th or 200th time you have predicted demise of the PM . That crystal ball needs an update or maybe its past its use by date . Abbott looked like he was eating one of those sandwiches with unpleasant filling this morning . Strange reaction to having most of what he has been banging on about vindicated by the panel . Maybe dismissing the panel before it had handed down its report was hasty or just stupid .

  44. geomac62

    The old saying : Even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day .
    I agree with some who find the off shore policy appalling but thats the situation in Australia today . A lot of people selfish , scared but not really knowing why yet living comfortably . I saw a post on FB about a Halal maccas and one comment said its not our country anymore . WTF ! Has that dill ever looked at the KFC etc all over the place . So kosher is ok but halal is not yet both are prepared in exactly the same way or is it there are no kosher maccas ? When we have a foreign base on our soil and we are not a defeated nation after a war ( germany , japan ) then its not our cou ntry anymore perhaps . A client state perhaps ?

  45. Mr Denmore

    I’m not sure why Suzanne Blake and her other Liberal Party call centre ring-ins get so irate about Crikey when they have cheerleaders in the AFR, The Australian, the News Ltd tabloids, talkback radio, commercial television and most of the ABC.

    Clearly, unanimity of thought is what they are seeking, which seems rather contrary to their supposed ‘liberal’ philosophy.

    I have never seen such a duplicitous, cynical and destructive politician as Abbott. If he were on the other side of politics, he would be condemned by the right-wing press as a loony populist. Yet, he gets a free pass because of the colours he’s playing in. If ever there was proof of the partisanship of the Australian media, this is it.

  46. Suzanne Blake

    @Mr Denmore

    Fairfax is left wing, hence the rapid decline in reading

    ABC is 101% extreme left wing.

    News is right wing

    talkback radio reflect peoples views across electorate.

    I enjoy being in one of the most marginal seats in Australia and ensuring as many people as I can speak to never vote for Labor / Greens again. Its an easy job at the moment.

  47. Ronson Dalby

    Pastor Gillard left-wing? You’re kidding. The puppet speaks to those who pull her strings.

    “Julia Gillard keynote speaker at the ACL National Conference.”


  48. geomac62

    I enjoy being in one of the most marginal seats in Australia and ensuring as many people as I can speak to never vote for Labor / Greens again. Its an easy job at the moment.
    SB always has a clear path to walk in as everyone crosses the street to avoid being bailed up . Nobody walking the street wants to yabber on about politics except SB and EJ . The climate , the bargains , the footy , the garfen or just a polite nod or wave . Troll universe is like Sim city but not as real .

  49. Bill Williams

    John Howard and Julia Gillard as Prime Ministers share one quality: political opportunism. Howard, however was much smarter about judging the direction and strength of political winds.

    Alan, you, like most neo-liberal economists, should stick to explaining what has already happened…..that way your statements and assertions, (especially when combined with the “acting skills” which you advise Chris Jordan and Angus Houston to develop) can make it all sound as correct as a Maths professor who knows the right formula to obtain the answer to a challenging problem. Trying to see the future is much more difficult, no matter how often you remind us that you “told us so” on some short term time horizon prediction we forgot you made.

    Everybody else in Australia knows that Gillard has less chance of winning the next election than being invited to front INXS…..even if a female diva like Tina Arena might be a good idea to freshen up their song list without trying to sound like Michael Hutchence. [Sorry…..blame the rock metaphors on Wayne Swan!]

    In fact, Gillard will be very lucky to be even leading the Labor Party at the next election.

  50. geomac62

    I find it curious that the Houston article yesterday attracted no right wing types . The Ashby article got the same brush off yet Kohler , no rabid socialist , comments on a possible Labor win and careful you don,t get bowled over in the rush to pan the article by the usual suspects . I,m having a good day which means low humidity or just enjoying the shrill of the trolls . Ashby acolytes , silent ones .

  51. pritu

    The trolls are so easy to pick out now. They’ve run out of slogans and lies. No imagination, like their bosses.

  52. lloydois

    What a great comedy act Suzanne Blake is!

    Fancy getting most of her information froma site like The Conversation and ending up with the views she expresses here.

    The Conversation must be really chuffed that their somewhat rigorous non partisan journalism is inerpreted so!

  53. Suzanne Blake

    @ geomac62

    Come on up to the Central Coast of NSW and visit two marginal seats, and see what REALLY happens.

    Gillard dartboards would sell like hot cakes at Tuggerah and Erina Fair. I wish I had a supply.

    Come on up and see how these two marginal Labor seats are GONE for a LONG time.

  54. Karen

    @Patriot – carbon price is a tax/signal. Are we going to argue the toss on it? Still, no lie.

  55. Karen

    @SB – how about arguing the issues raised in my 10.49am post, SB. Show some cred and honesty for a change, instead of ‘playing the ball’ like someone who has just lost an argument.

  56. geomac62

    McMillan where I reside has been marginal for years . Considering it has the Latrobe Valley coal mines you would think carbon pricing would be the hot topic but it isn,t . Very few people care about politics until an election is at hand and even then their attention is marginal depending on their concerns . Thats why the walk against involvement in Iraq was noteworthy , the sheer volume of participants . People like us ? are very much in the minority . Which means most are getting on with life and the things that matter to them be that some tv talent show or looking after kith and kin .

  57. Sancho

    I’m generally skeptical of accusations of Astroturfing, but Suzanne’s commitment to disrupting the conversation does suggest an unusually strong investment in blocking any pro-Labor electoral news.

    That said, everyone’s doing a great job of letting her pull the discussion away from the topics in Kohler’s article.

    So, who wants to talk about how communist Fairfax is and the going rates for Julia Gillard dartboards?

  58. Scott

    Of course Labor can win….it’s just that the chances of it happening are pretty small.

    Until there is some consistant changes in the polls, I would still predict a coalition victory.

  59. Owen Gary

    The Murdorc media has really hammered away at the public psyche, Julia has done a pretty good job with all the reforms to date, people need to keep their eye on the ball & not on the mainstream media, in other words wake up & stop getting sucked into trial by media.

    There has only really been one failure to date & that was the watered down tax on the miners, under the Noalition, ole Phoney would have cut public services to give them an extra bonus (corporate welfare)

    Why is it that neo-con whingers on here always see anything that is not a facist right policy as an extreme left viewpoint??

    If your unhappy with the posts, go back to “Menzies House” (now theres a site full of psychopaths) isn’t that what all neo-cons are?

  60. calyptorhynchus

    I love to hear the scream of an outraged troll in the afternoon.

  61. geomac62

    Your right and I,m guilty and should know better . Usually I limit myself to one comment regarding SB but the deafening silence by the trolls on Ashby and Houston etc compared to the team effort on this article is pure gold . An article by a raging capatlist like Kohler who just made a few million selling his company and his work to Murdoch and he is treated as a red ragger . Only neocon wingnuts could be this absurd without realising the irony of it .

  62. eric

    Hey Billy Blogs “THE SINGLE WORST PM EVER ” was one of your mob Billy big lears Mc Mahon.Gillard has achieved a lot considering the nature of the government she leads.
    The NDIS will be a massive winner for her and with Abbott be neutered on the boats issue the LNP might just have to start putting sonme policies not just populist slogans to the public.

    PM Gillard is light years ahead of that lying little weasel and as soon as the public wake up to fact Tony has no clothes on the game will be up and even the vicious anti ALP MSM will have to admit defeat!

  63. John Bennetts

    SB: Does you boss know that you are wasting time again?

  64. John Bennetts

    drmick, Posted Tuesday, 14 August 2012 at 11:31 am:

    “Looks like the mad hatter and the rest of the local Tea Party are a little upset… if you don’t like it here , you can always go back to where you came from.”

    Not going to happen. Can’t return a t_rd.

  65. Ian

    I’m with Mr.Denmore

  66. Dogs breakfast

    Gawd, an analytical piece by Kohler suggesting that Labor could still win has brought all the nutters out and sees them claiming bias.

    Ergo, we all must walk around constantly chanting that only Tony Abbott can win the election, or suffer the slings and arrows of the synaptically challenged.

    It’s an analysis piece guys. Labor could still win, this is politics, things move quickly IF the momentum shifts.

    “Oh no, we’ll never forget etc etc” Oh the vehemence, and yet forgetting that John Howard invented the term non-core promise has been your forte. You can forget Howard taking us to a pointless war (that causes mush of the ‘push’ factors for asylum seekers) but obsess over a carbon tax, which is unlikely to cost you as much as a cup of coffee a week.

    If this change to asylum seeker processing works, then basically the issue is off the table. If it doesn’t work, Tony Abbott will have to come up with some new bluster to impress the crowds. Either way, it is no longer the same electoral issue.

    That’s not bias guys and girls, that is stating the bleeding obvious. The fact that you would read this as cheer-leading just reflects on you personally. Go back and read it again. It’s pretty straightforward.

    And as for being obsesses about non-lying politicians, what do you make of a man who ‘promises’ to repeal the carbon tax, and somehow let everyone keep the compensation, and yet knowing that there is next to no chance of him winning the senate, in which case he cannot do it.

    Isn’t that a form of dishonesty, or is this where you can find all those ‘exceptions’ that mean that anything TA says doesn’t actually count?

  67. Hamis Hill

    Suzanne promised that the “bumbling Abbott” would be gone. Liar!

  68. Suzanne Blake

    @ John Bennetts

    “SB: Does you boss know that you are wasting time again?”

    I am the Boss, sand I don’t waste time, I work 7 days a weeks, 365 days a year, even on holidays, have done so for decades. Thats what small business does.

  69. Bill Hilliger

    The change to refugee politics eliminates the boat people – election winning wedge for the coalition – ans it’s goodbye Tony Abbott hello Malcolm Turnbull.

  70. geomac62

    SB runs a milk bar by the sounds of it . As I recall to have a milk permit you had to be open daily, might have changed . To be a forensic investigator working every day , every year would mean a very slow plodder and business problems that would make the depression look like nirvana . Maybe the time is spent correcting typos ? Can,t have them on reports like its ok here , same with spelling . Whatever the work is it certainly isn,t productive as evidenced by the volume of posts here by SB . I don,t work at all and couldn,t find the time to match the output of SB or aliases on a multitude of articles and thats just at Crikey . Well that explains the 365 days a tear work , always somewhere to post on a blog . Almost cut and paste , just change the slogans every now and then .

  71. O.M.G.

    Of course Labor can win the next Election. People have poor memories providing money goes into their pockets and not out of their pockets. P.M. Gillard is very aware of this as was John Howard. Tony Abbott knows that too, but will be stymied when it comes to largesse. What worries me is how much longer can Australia continue to borrow, continue to give away welfare benefits and just spend, spend. The debt created by this current government is the citizens’ DEBT. I, for one, am ashamed of how Australia is being run. Our own household finances can’t survive if debt or borrowings are too high, and it is my contention that governments can’t survive either if their debt it too high. We need a new government to start to clean the mess up before it is too late to sort it, but, as I said, “Labor can win the next election”. Oh dear !!

  72. SBH

    Mr Denmore – like Ian said

  73. The Pav

    @GEOMAC 62

    If SB has done all those hours for decades and it is still a small business then SB is obvioisly not very good or smart otherwise the business would be a lot bigger.

    Morelikely it was a large business when SB started.

    Given SB pathological dishonesty I actually think that SB only turns up for a few hours each leap year

  74. The Pav

    Dear Suzanne Blake

    Your description of the ABC is breath takingly stupid even for you.

    You really have an intelectual impairment or some kind of illness

    Please get help, I mean this sincerely

  75. Andrew ( )

    I’ll stick my neck out and predict a further 4% increase in primary support for Labor at the next poll. Then its an easy uphill stroll for Julia to take the public with her. The Libs know they can’t last another 15 months and their high risk stratagy won’t pay off. Thankfully the independants have kept their nerve and done what’s in the best interest of the country. I believe their support will improve closer to the election.
    This constant rubbish about right wingers verses left wingers pisses me off.
    It’s about what is the right thing to do verses the wrong thing. Leave the ideology out of it.
    I wonder if the Greens regret not supporting the original Malaysia swap deal. They need to learn that we do not live in a perfect world and what may be theoretically right is not always practicle. Seems once again they’ve opted to miss the better of the two evils. This latest return to the Howards style policy should highlight just how expensive it was. Still the government had to do something as we need an orderly intake of refugees. I am all for more to come just that it be done in an orderly and fair manner.

  76. DF

    Dear Suzanne Blake

    You wouldn’t by any chance be the same person who used to post as MT Pockets on the Fairfax blogs, would you? The style is so similar.

    Jubilation T Cornpone

  77. lloydois

    ‘I work 7 days a weeks, 365 days a year, even on holidays, have done so for decades’

    Is this the reason your critical faculties operate at such a low level Suzanne?

    You seem to be incapable of independent thought, only capable of reproducing Liberal Party talking points.

  78. Andrew ( )

    I am suprised that SB has been running a business for decades. I was thinking what a clever two year old she is, being able to type, and even put a sentence together, even though it makes no sense. Oh well, she must be just a bored shop owner with nothing else to do.

  79. andrew36

    Let me guess Pav, you think the ABC is balanced, LMFAO. Yeah Lloddois because all you lefties on here are so full of independence thought, you never sprout the party line or fall in behind your glorius leader do you. It always admuses me how people try to pretend they are so full of independent thoughts but not once do they criticise or disagree with the thoughts of the party they support. Both political parties could swap policies and a large percentage of people would stil support and defend there party, this goes for both sides, most people commenting on right wing blogs are no better. If I had this many sheep at home as are on this site I would be a millionaire.

  80. Andrew ( )

    Could SB be a freind of EJ as they both hark from the Central Coast, retirement capital of Australia, final resting place of Sydney’s North Shore mob?

  81. Patriot

    “…breath takingly stupid even for you.

    You really have an intelectual impairment or some kind of illness”

    Is that the way you usually engage with people you consider intellectually impaired and mentally ill? How do your fellow lefties feel about that?

  82. Andrew ( )

    @Andrew36 – I think you are incorrect to state Labor supporters always fall in line behind their leader. It just happens to be that the Labor policies are more often than not good policies that benifit the majority of Australians. This is what socialist ideology is about. A fair go for all. Conservative ideology is about the advancement of the individual. It is hard to please everyone but in Australia we are fortunate that most people have the opportunity to have a good life.

  83. klewso

    What’s this pile of pyne clones doing here?

  84. The Pav

    Dear patriot,

    Stop trying to start a fight where no cause exists.

    I notice you din’t include the full quote but then that is typical.

    So that you can understand.

    SB = stupid statement= my comment

    then Why so stupid?

    Hmmm..Maybe other issues hence my enquiry. A sincere inquiry.

    If it turns out SB is ill/diminished/ limited then obviously I would treat with her differently b

    If you don’t regard that as reasonable or logical then tough

  85. Andrew ( )

    I was suprised that The Daily Telegragh reported the issue of the reopening of offshore processing in a more positive light for the government than the Sydney Morning Herald. Anyway that’s the way it appeared to me but I only checked a few articles.

  86. Patriot

    You really have an intelectual impairment or some kind of illness”

    That’s an enquiry? Nope, that would be an an assertion. A strident one. Really.

  87. The Pav

    Dear Patriot.

    The structure of the sentence indicates that it is a question although it woulkd have been better to have include the “?”

    Typos are a fact of life and I never throw that particular stone

  88. Patriot

    Got it now I think, Pav. If you just suspect someone might be intellectually impaired or mentally ill it’s fine to call them breathtakingly stupid. Once it’s confirmed, they are above reproach.

  89. The Pav

    Dear Patriot,

    Nahhhh don’t think you really got it

    Do you want to try again? ( remembered the ? this time).

    I’m here/hear to help.

  90. Suzanne Blake

    Gillard just displayed how desperate she is by having the TV Cameras in her office telling the Chief of Defence when he is to be in Nauru, what a stunt, what a loser, was a desperate PM we have.

  91. floorer

    “Once it’s confirmed, they are above reproach.” Straight up Patriot that is one immaculate line.

  92. The Pav

    Dear Suzanne Blake,

    And wearing a flouro vest , hard hat and bothering people at work while telling lies isn’t a loser stunt?

    Or travelling way up north to do a bit of carpentry to show you want to help “Aborigines” when most of them live in Urban areas but I guess a vist to FNQ isin’t as sexy as a trip to FNQ

    No, not when its your mate Abbott I guess

  93. SBH

    Speaking of Strident, That’s a word you should look up Suzanne as your sounding increasingly so. I say look it up because the way you spell, you might mistake it for some kind of denture fixing product.

  94. zut alors

    SB wrote: ‘I am the Boss, sand I don’t waste time, I work 7 days a weeks, 365 days a year, even on holidays, have done so for decades. Thats what small business does.’

    There’s a myriad of names one could call SB, none of which is proofreader.

  95. The Pav


    If true ( and its not my statement) but then it would probably explains why Abbotts supporters venerate him so

  96. John Kotsopoulos

    I am heartily sick of those from the Abbott camp who insist on calling the decision to impose a TEMPORARY price on carbon a broken promise. A carbon tax as is applied elsewhere is a retail tax like the great big GST Howard said he would never impose. (btw not even he really thought he would have the numbers in the senate so to claim a mandate is as believable as a verbal promise from Abbott)

  97. floorer

    Pav mate, looking after the unfortunate is classic left mantra.

  98. geomac62

    Howard would turn up with tv cameras to the opening of a cigarette packet just to get his mug on tv . I remember the soap opera ” dramatic ” removal from a plane with helmet and battle jacket which oddly enough the cameraman was able to capture because he was already out and primed to shoot . Security had their priorities right , cameraman out first PM after . Howard saw of more naval boats than a busy hooker but had less class . ” I,ll stay on as leader while the party still wants me ” except when they tap me on the shoulder then I,ll have blood on the floor before I go . So they took the softer option and let him stay on . Funny how the staunch monarchist became more like Mugabe when it came to who was to represent Australia at the Olympics , had to settle for a prominent chair a bit to the rear . The rodent gave me one piece of joy , schadenfreude ? when he lost his own seat . I,m so glad his braying voice is now seldom heard . It would have been a travesty if he had broken Menzies record .

  99. Patriot

    Karen says;

    Asylum seekers will have better outcomes in Australia because they will be processed humanely and more quickly (thereby reducing the risks of illness). The consequences are obvious. They will be better able to establish themselves in businesses and the job market, which most immigrants do, thereby adding to society and the economy.

    On the other hand, you take broken people from an off-shore island, these people will end up on the mainland for the Australian to support for the rest of their lives. I wouldn’t be surprised, if such people or their families launch massive class actions against the government for maltreatment and mental illness that have rendered their lives unproductive and useless.

    Got that? You can suffer torture under a brutal regime, receive death threats from the TaIiban, or survive shelling attacks in Sri Lanka, but as long as you can waltz straight into Australia you’re good to go and an asset to society.

    On the other hand, if you have to spend a few months in a detention centre… Well, your life is over. You’re mentally damaged beyond repair and on disability support for the rest of your miserable existence, incapable of functioning normally.

    Loonier and loonier.

  100. iggy648

    If I break the speed limit by 10 km/hr I get fined. If I break it by 50 km/hr I get fined more. But not everybody gets fined because not everybody breaks the law, so it ain’t no tax! Likewise the Carbon Price is more like a fine. The more you pollute, the more you pay. It’s obviously nothing like a tax.

  101. Oscar Jones

    Alan Kohler is no bleeding heart liberal but he is making sense.

    Posters on here are confusing their dislike of politicians for the reality of politics.
    They now know what Julia Gillard stands for and the sky hasn’t fallen in under her leadership.

    On the other hand there is a great disliking for Tony Abbott and indeed great suspicion especially over the thought work choices may return.

    If the economy remains stable and there no great hick-ups in the next 10 months, Australians may choose to stay with the devil they know. In 6 months Nauru will be a distant memory just as Utegate was and the Thomson etc affair has faded.

  102. Tom Jones

    The venom and strength of the responses to the article shows that Alan Kohler might be on to something here. It sounds like a strategy that just could work. The Opposition could always start talking about the PM’s clothes. That should go down a treat.

  103. Suzanne Blake

    @ Hamis Hill

    Abbott will be gone before election. This is how it will work.

    1. Gillard get dumped in next few months, but certainly before Christmas

    2. New ALP leader elected

    3. Honeymoon poll bounce and relief that ly ing Gillard is gone

    4. LNP get nervous and replace Abbott


  104. Edward James

    Never mind the venom and strength Tom Jones. You need to consider the “peoples” who have been around for more then a decade have been working to expose the details which AC has not touched on 02 43419140 POB 3024 Umina 2257. Most readers of Crikey are too frightened to call my phone number. Because I represent what s wrong with the way our taxes are spent Eward James

  105. Suzanne Blake

    @ The Pav

    Your kidding,

    What about ly ing Gillard’s stunts

    1. Head of Defence in her office yesterday with loads of TV cameras telling him he will be in Nauru on Friday – stunt

    2. The race riots on Australia organised by ly ing Gillards office

    3. The baby holding episodes, I suppose a novelty for her

    4. The staged shopping centre visit, with the area cleared and ALP friendly family inserted, after the incident last year.

    The Pav, you shot yourself in the foot.

  106. Edward James

    Susanne Blace it has been suggested we kno one anothr give me a call 0243419140. EDward Jmes poitical assain

  107. Suzanne Blake

    @ John Kotsopoulos

    Its not a broken promise its a l i e.

    Also Howard went to an election with GST the 1999 one

  108. Ian

    Suzanne Blake…..please stop it. I have a mechanical aortic valve and you’re making me laugh so much it’s in danger of melting. Please Suzanne stop it now.

  109. Steve777

    Suzanne – please get your facts right. John Howard went to an election in 1996 having previously said ‘never, ever’ to the GST. He proposed the GST during his first term and it was part of his election platform in 1998. I have no problem with the GST nor do I have a problem with the way it was introduced with an electoral mandate. But John Howard and his successors have behaved disgracefully in their exploitation of asylum seekers as tools to advance their political interests.

  110. John Kotsopoulos

    Suzanne Blake Howard LOST the popular vote in 1996 and was so convinced he had lost the election he was preparing himself to concede when the polls closed.

    Prior to the election no one even thought he had a chance of bringing in a GST due to a lack of numbers in the Senate.

    He would have gone the same way a Hewson if people thought otherwise. Some mandate.

    Facts to Libs are like sunlight to vampires it seems.

    I am happy to see you have you fallen out of love with the Rabbit but ihere is another factvti ponder….. Turnbull supports a price on carbon.

    BTW I’d be very careful about spraying around allegations about setting up riots.

  111. John Kotsopoulos

    sorry meant 1998

  112. Suzanne Blake

    @ John Kotsopoulos

    Gillards Office did setup the race riot on Australia Day, they sacked a scapegoat as you recall, after Gillard hid from the media on Jan 27, to work out the spin strategy

  113. Mike Flanagan

    Alana Kohler
    It could be that the people who chose Ms Gillard did not do so for her thespian skills. We haven’t had a Nida graduate for a Prime Minister.
    It could be that they selected her for her intellectual depth and breadth, her skills to master a complex brief, her skills at negotiation while maintaining her focus on the objective.
    Maybe they recognised her strength of character combined with her lack of dogma would be a valuable attribute to bring to the Prime Ministership that we have rarely experienced.
    It might be that the press gallery and their associates may not wish to recognise her skills and qualities because of their dislike of a woman execising power, but there is gathering number of people in the community without the ingrained mysogyny or glass ceiling syndrome displayed by the MSM actors, acknowledging the capabilities of this woman.
    It is time for the Liberal Party along with the press gallery to realise that a political strategy built on opportunism, confusion and division will fool the people some of the time but will not convince people all the time.
    Finally I would suggest there are some very wise heads in caucus that this nation will come to appreciate.

  114. John Kotsopoulos

    Disgusting slur Suzanne Blake. thanks conceding the rest tho.

  115. Steve777

    “It is time for the Liberal Party along with the press gallery to realise that a political strategy built on opportunism, confusion and division will fool the people some of the time but will not convince people all the time.”

    Why would they? It’s working. It doesn’t even have to fool that many people, just a relative few in marginal seats. That’s what all the sound and fury we are hearing from the Opposition over asylum seekers and Carbon pricing is about, for example. From the Coalition’s point of view, it only has to hold together, with the support of a mostly friendly media, for another year.

  116. Karen

    @ Patriot – in response to your misinformed rant against me, refugee advocates who work closely with refugees, including medical professionals say that detention is no deterrent (not when you take into account push factors) and that after 12 months mental health is compromised. This policy will be doomed to fail, as it did before. Cretin.

  117. Patriot

    Karen, you actually make it sound like the detention is worse than whatever they’re fleeing and they’d be better off staying at home and copping it while they wait for a spot here. Seems like the sensible thing for them to do – certainly a more attractive proposition than “maltreatment and mental illness” that renders their lives “unproductive and useless”. If they can just keep themselves out of Australian detention they will be “better able to establish themselves in businesses and the job market”, right?

  118. Karen

    @Patriot – I was not intending to imply that in my post. It is true that many refugees are already traumatised (eg. PTSD) by the time they travel and will require assistance from their host country. No doubt about it. Then again, others are not. Them’s the breaks when it comes to susceptibility.

    However, the evidence is clear that many perfectly sane people, when faced with indefinite detention, mentally deteriorate, significantly and relatively rapidly. Twelve months. Those with a pre- existing illness or condition are left in an even worse situation, as the trauma of detention exacerbates the pre-existing ailment. Milne talked about these issues it in her interview this morning.

    You would be aware of many examples of this occurring, including Nauru, which prompted the Rudd govt, in part, to abandon the policy.

    Presently, there is a Tamil who has been refused ‘security clearance’ from ASIO. This is a controversial decision as there are cogent reasons to believe that his case should be reviewed. At present, he is stateless and, ergo, in indefinite detention. His ‘cell mates’ (for want of a better term) are saying that this man has regressed to an infantile state – screaming, letting go of his bodily functions in his cell etc. Now this is the sort of stuff, we are going to have to put up with as a nation, going forward.

    This is, quite apart from the issue, that off-shore processing whilst not only unethical (in my view) is also still, arguably illegal, under international law.

    If Australia buys this policy, then its going to have to spend billions and billions to put detainees in appropriate facilities, for them to be regularly monitored and screened, and then sent to the mainland for expert treatment, as and when the need arises (which it will). This is assuming the government wants to avoid being fingered for human rights abuses. I can see this as an unnecessary, punitive and costly exercise with the potential for significant litigation. Quite apart from which it won’t stop the boats coming.

    So, you might want to consider ‘turning back the boats’. Well, PNG has come out and said it won’t accept ‘turned back’ boats because its jurisprudence says that detention, in the absence of crime, is illegal. Fair enough. And Indonesia won’t come to the party, we know that.

  119. Suzanne Blake

    Anyone heard the rumour that Swan will challenge Gillard this month.

    Apparently the complete wipeout in Queensland, WA and in NSW marginals has prompted behind the scenes moves.

  120. izatso?

    Ha send that particular cryst ball back to its makers, too, Twit fer Brains.

  121. Xevram

    PM Gillards main problem is and has been the lie in regards to ‘no carbon tax’. Honestly the whole issue is solved very very easily; she just has to front up with the truth.
    A simple honest statement along the lines of; Sorry I was wrong, the situation and circumstances have changed, consequently in the interests of the environment, economic certainty and just plain doing the right thing, we need to review our past promise and put in place a price on carbon. I apologise for making an unsustainable promise.
    The reality is and we all know it, circumstances do change and we all at times need to learn from and respond to the new changed circumstances.

  122. Steve777

    Xevram – Julia’s ‘no carbon tax’ pledge was NOT a lie. Informed electors knew that Labor supported Carbon Pricing, but had postponed its introduction until after the then next term of government. Another statement Julia made during the election campaign was “”If elected as prime minister, I will re-prosecute the case for a carbon price at home and abroad.”

    At the time she made both statements, she meant them. Labor had put carbon pricing on the ‘too hard’ pile for 3 years, because the Coalition had reneged both on what they pledged in the 2007 election regarding an ETS and more particularly on a deal that they had just struck with the government. No one was anticipating a hung parliament. Agreements had to be struck and compromises made. That is the way parliament is supposed to work. Tony ‘sell my _rse’ Abbott would also have had to make compromises had he won the support of the cross-benchers and no doubt he would have. Of course he would have got a much friendlier run in the media.

    In fact no one knows what Tony Abbott’s position on action on climate change is, including, I suspect, himself. He has espoused various positions at different times, adjusting his plans to suit the political winds. This is hardly shows honesty on Tony’s part.

    That being said, I agree with the general tenor of your post. In particular, you set out what Julia Gillard should have said 18 months ago when she announced that Carbon Pricing was to go ahead in 2012.

  123. Steve777

    Here’s Tony Abbott espousing a carbon tax in 2009 (cut and paste):


    His remarks from 50 seconds in should be quoted back at him at every opportunity.

  124. The Pav

    Dear Suzanne Blake

    For someone who claims to have nothing to do with politicians to propagate such a rumour would indicate that you now claim intimate knowledge.

    In other words another lie upon a lie. Your usual modus operandi.

    I really don’t think that I have encountered a more dishonest person. In fact you are so dishonest I believe you to be Abbott’s alter ego.

    BTW nobody else has “heard” those rumours because they don’t have little voices in their heads as you do.

    Patriot………This is the sort of person who supports your side of things…….Really

  125. Gocomsys

    Well said. Good article again in “IA” (please copy/paste):

  126. Gocomsys

    The PAV
    Time for me to get my info somewhere else when my subscription expires.
    Too many ridiculously dull and repetitive comments here to contend with.
    The articles themselves often shallow, lacking insight.
    Many more “free” or “reasonably costed” alternatives are now available.
    Just to name a few:
    The Global Mail
    The Conversation
    Independent Australia
    New Matilda
    The list goes on……………..

  127. Mike Flanagan

    Yes, they are all a good read, but the contributions by many at Crikey are valuable. Discounting the idiocies evident on all sites, the editorial competition to inform their collective audiences should supported and appluaded.

  128. CliffG

    Abbott will never be PM. That is certain. just watch his numbers slide from here.
    At the moment Morrison is sinking him and the LNP, not that Abbott needs help.
    Australians don’t want refugees and asylum seekers vilified and demonised, nor do they want them abused and tortured, or jailed first and then charged! They want a fair, orderly, humane process for accepting refugees.
    The Opposition is shifting from far right to neo fascist in its complete desperation. The myth that the Houston Report is a return to NLP policy is already as widely held by apologists as climate change denial and the belief that a carbon tax is “toxic”.
    But you have to laugh when the comments here attack Kohler as being an “ABC lefty”. That’s a scream!
    Guess it’s all in the eye and ear of the beholder and listener what he or she wants to have confirm their particlular bigotries.
    All a bit sad really, eh Spike?

  129. CliffG

    XEVRAM – I’ve heard Julia Gillard do exactly what you recommend! You must have missed it.

  130. Gocomsys

    MIKE posted Thursday, 16 August 2012 at 11:58 am
    > Contributions by many at Crikey are valuable.
    Agreed. True.
    Almost all online sites are still in the process of adjustment. In order to cater for a wider audience the “tone” of headlines and articles, out of necessity, could be classified as “simplistic” and “sensationalized”. Other attributes come to mind: “fence sitting” or “one bet each way” (similar to ABC opinion pieces). By framing it this way inevitably many “grazing types” with little knowledge or understanding find it attractive.
    You would have noticed that well written, thoroughly researched, non sensationalised pieces do not have the same appeal to them.
    Interesting times ahead indeed.
    Good luck OZ!

  131. klewso

    That reminds me …. ever see footage of those hot air balloon “rallies”?

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