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May 25, 2012

Brothel baron on Thomson: 'I think it's bullshit'

Sydney’s brothel barons have cast serious doubt on the integrity of the former prostitute claiming to have had sex with Craig Thomson, writes Chris Seage, owner of Brothel Busters and a former consultant to the NSW sex industry.


Sydney’s brothel barons have cast serious doubt on the integrity of the former prostitute claiming to have had sex with Craig Thomson.

It is claimed that Channel Nine’s A Current Affair has offered her $60,000 to spill the beans on their night of carnal pleasure. News Ltd reports this morning that she lives at Cabarita Beach on the NSW north coast after previously working in Sydney as an escort with Boardroom Escorts.

On ACA last night, reporter Justin Armsden said that their investigation was centred on a CBA MasterCard payment of $770 paid by Thomson on May 7, 2005, to International Immobiliare, which is the corporate entity of the escort agency Boardroom Escorts. Sex businesses disguise the nature of the payment that appears on credit card statements when clients pay by credit card to ensure a level of discretion.

ACA has now whisked her away to an overseas location to be interviewed — some seven years after the alleged event — in return for a bag of money. But, according to some of Sydney’s leading brothel barons, that is the problem with the whole ACA deal — seven years is a long time ago.

The current owner of Boardroom Escorts is Alex Lavey, who purchased the business in 2008, three years after the alleged Thomson event.

“I think it’s bullshit,” he told Crikey. “How can she remember back seven years? Some of the girls I’ve got here now can’t remember what happened last week let alone last year or the year before that.”

Lavey claims that his escorts currently do 5-12 jobs per week on average. But back in 2005, business was going gangbusters in the sex industry. Lee Cameron, owner of two brothels in Chatswood including the up-market La Petite Aroma, told Crikey: “In those days, business was booming and good escorts could see up to eight clients a night four nights a week. They would have a driver who would camp outside and then drive them to the next job.  It was that busy.”

Using Cameron’s figures an escort back in 2005 would see up to 32 clients a week. Factor in, say, a 40-week working year, and an escort could have potentially seen 1280 clients in just one year.

I asked Cameron whether it was conceivable that an escort could remember a client from seven years ago, given the high number of men they would see. “Her claims have little credence.  She couldn’t remember. She couldn’t. If it was a movie star like Sly Stallone or someone famous, they might but Thomson was not a public figure back then,” she said.

Cameron also questioned the integrity of some sex workers suggesting that many have issues such as drug and alcohol dependency: “If I was A Current Affair I would be very careful as this could be a potential con-job.”

Cameron’s and Lavey’s thoughts are echoed by Helen, owner of Liaisons, an exclusive brothel in Edgecliffe and The Golden Apple in Potts Point, the latter made famous in the recent Underbelly series. Casting doubts on why the former pr-stitute doesn’t want to be identified, Helen told Crikey: “The interview won’t have any credibility if the face is pixelated and voice distorted. It could be anyone. If you want to come forward and attempt to destroy someone’s reputation, then you can’t hide behind anonymity.”

Helen also raised issues about the integrity of some sex workers in the industry saying that many are unreliable: “The likelihood of a prostitute seeing a client on only one occasion such as this and now remembering him seven years later is most unlikely.”

Helen remembers the time she walked out of Liaisons for lunch one day and as she did in walked one of Australia’s most famous former politicians: “I checked later with the girl who saw him and she didn’t even know who he was. I knew who he was though.”

Meanwhile, Lavey is concerned about losing business because a former worker is outing a client even though he didn’t own the business at the time. “I’m not sure how much this bad publicity will affect my business. Privacy and discretion is very important in this industry,” he said.

Lavey’s website boasts:

Is my privacy 100% safe with Boardroom?

Absolutely! Here at Boardroom, your privacy and satisfaction with our services is our number one concern. This being the case, you can rest easy knowing we’ll take care of you with impeccable discretion. We will never at any time share any of your private information with anyone … guaranteed.


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278 thoughts on “Brothel baron on Thomson: ‘I think it’s bullshit’

  1. Lamerton Margaret

    Seems to me as if she wants the money and is prepared to say anything to get it. Abit like Tony Abbott – he’d do anything to become PM. What a tawdry business this allm is

  2. Socratease

    Nine says Thomson refused to watch the interview. Why would an innocent man, falsely accused, do that?

  3. william gibbons

    you can write “bullshit” but not sex?

    this is the reason i’ll never subscribe.

  4. Socratease

    Yep, the word filter on this site is farcical.

  5. Steve Gardner

    William Gibbons, this probably has nothing to do with Chris Seage. A lot of workplaces have email filters that block messages based on their contents. ‘sex’, ‘porn’, ‘fuck’ etc. are filtered terms and messages containing them will be blocked. So you’ll often writers writing these terms as ‘s-x’, ‘p*rn’, etc. Guy Rundle does it, too, for example.
    If that is the reason, though, Chris Seage needs a little more attention to detail. The word ‘sex’ does actually appear in the article.

  6. NeoTheFatCat

    It’s amazing that there is absolutely nothing that Craig Thomson can say in his defence that will be believed, but a women claiming to be a prostitute who has been paid to appear on tabloid is instantly believable and trustworthy. She even signed a stat dec!

    No offence to their chosen profession …

  7. tumbrelpusher

    I don’t think that ACA or Channel 9 is getting enough ‘bang’ (pun intended) for their buck. If they had a conducted a proper Cost Benefit Analysis and tender process they would know that they could easily get 12 prostitutes to ‘finger’ Thomson for 5k each……..

  8. notmensa

    @socratease Why would an innocent man, falsely accused, want to watch the interview at all? What on earth would be gained by that?

  9. David Allen

    One thing we can be quite certain of. Thomson can not now get a fair trial.

    If he’s guilty, and he walks, then he’ll be able to thank Abbott, Pyne and, of course, our outstanding media.

    Thanks for your contribution to justice guys!

  10. Wombat

    I would suggest if Crikey wants to understand whether or not prostitutes remember their clients they should shout a journalist a trip to an ‘equivalent brothel’ and pay for a prostitutes time and find out. The ranting of a brothel owner dripping with vested interest who clearly wants believe the women he employs are stupid and bonk so many clients they cannot remember them is no replacement for research. Prostitutes should be paid for their time too – even if the researcher does not get sexual services. You may find that they are actually normal and intelligent people who like most of us remember people for different reasons.

  11. Socratease

    So, notmensa, if a hooker claimed you were her client in a recorded interview, you wouldn’t want to see that? Pull the other one.

  12. Andybob

    All we need now is a drug dealer to say that the brothel-owners shouldn’t be believed.

  13. Socratease

    Yes, Wombat, and their regulars may have certain physical characteristics that are easily remembered.

  14. Bill Hilliger

    In the future, will there be a prositute on channel 9 that claims to have done it with one of those nauseous opposition shadow cabinet? (Good for ratings you know) If they have not already had dalliances or participated I can think of at least six who would be up for it given a chance. Whether the ladies of the night would want to be with such sc*m is a debatable question. LOL!

  15. Mack the Knife

    The entire Jackson, Ashby, Abbott, Pyne, H R Nicholls connections here need a royal commission to sort out.

    Unlike the Godwin Gretch saga, Abbott and co need scrutiny

  16. Socratease

    @neothefatcat, maybe Thomson should be asked to sign a few stat decs backing his denials about card usage. Reckon he’d do that? Hmmm?

  17. Socratease

    @Bill Hilliger, LOL!!!!

  18. Stephen

    Curses, foiled! Memo ACA: Next time, choose a whore with integrity.

  19. Alfonse

    Going by the pricing schedule, his $770 would not have got the quality escort. Poor taste as well !!

  20. Socratease

    ^ Maybe he’s a quick climaxer?

  21. Stevo the Working Twistie

    @SOCRATEASE- I refuse to watch the interview too. Make of that what you will. I think 9 really needs to pull out the stops here. Maybe get the wino on the corner to testify, and possibly the neighbor’s dog. Dogs never lie.

  22. Socratease

    Stevo, you and Thommo can avoid it together.

  23. Michael de Angelos

    SOCRATEASE amply examples the art that throwing mud will always stick. Any lawyer will tell you not to answer questions even when innocent. There are a host of reasons and none so more, as in Craig Thomson’s case that all you do is give more reasons to be attacked.

    Kate McClymont on Fairfax has led this disgraceful charge of stringing together disparate facts and movements to create an overall picture of guilt when none may be there.
    At times she seems like the mouthpiece for Thomson’s HSU enemies and never once has she looked at the accusers or questioned their motives. To give her the title of ‘senior journalist’ shows how far in the gutter Fairfax are sinking.

    Anthony Albanese has good reason to say Abbott may how be bordering on the notion of intimidating a lawfully elected MP from doing their duty.

    Voters should question why Abbott and Co are so demented in their quest to seize government if the polls are so brilliant for them and victory is assured in 12 months. Why?

    Is it because a closer examination of his policies (?) in a calmer and longer electioneering campaign where the media will have to concentrate on genuine discussion (and not gossip) may shift polls?.

    Or that a quick change in government via the demise of a Labor MP will enable Abbott and the Coalition to introduce Workchoices2 without the need for an election campaign?

    And shouldn’t the barrister George Brandis, who pontificates so eloquently on propriety be demanding a probe into why Tony Abbott as a Minsiter in the Howard government along with his colleagues failed to note one single email/memo that AWB was bribing the evil Saddam Hussein to the tune of $300M?…a far more sinister and evil act compared to some alleged personal hi-jinks of a man before his time in Parliament.

  24. Suzanne Blake

    This sage will drag on for 12 months and then years

  25. khtagh

    @David Allen.. I see the light, I’m humbled in the glow.

    God forbid it, if Thomson was to hurt himself the Mad Monk would be the only one laughing about it. The rest of the Lieberal’s would not be able to contain their smiles of glee. Would the media hold themselves responsible, I won’t hold my breath. limited news is so good at covering their back here in Australia.

  26. John64

    It was me. I slept with Craig Thomson.

    And I’m willing to tell my story to ACA for only $40,000!

  27. Meski

    ACA hasn’t been watchable for decades, Socratease. The early days of Jana in the ’90s, maybe.

    What’s she doing these days, anyway?

  28. Meski

    @SB: I fear so. ANd I’m more than tired of it already.

  29. geomac

    I never watch ACA or its equivalent as 15 minutes of media watch is worth 2 years of such pap . I do however think its appropriate that ACA uses a ” prostitute ” to sell a story as ACA has been prostituting itself for many years . Just how long ago was it that these types of shows actually had some integrity in reporting ? I remember it used to but its been so long now I can,t recall when the slide began . Even Ray Martin got caught up in the grubby part of it in the end and was made to look a fool when tactics used on victims were used on him .
    Why would Thomson entertain watching a video when by doing so it gives ACA a hint of cred to their story . By not watching it it gives voice to doubters but I would think he has enough on his plate without adding to it another vague accusation from a vague source .
    Sophie Mirabella must be delighted she is in the opposition and not a backbencher in a minority government facing the liberals . What has been dished out to Thomson would seem mild compared to what she would receive . Maybe Pyne should consult Sophie about dementia to see if he has it or just convenient memory loss like Downer etc .

  30. Phil Vee

    Comment 2 socratease wrote……Nine says Thomson refused to watch the interview. Why would an innocent man, falsely accused, do that?

    Your question is a grubby rhetorical trick. You asked a question which implies he is probably guilty if he did not watch it. Absolute crap. Dishonest humbug. No doubt you will now defend yourself by protesting you did not say he was guilty. Worthless argument. Fact: he did or did not watch it. Conclusion to be drawn: none.

  31. Liz45

    Abbott has said he’ll do anything to be PM – and he’d have to think seriously about selling his a**e? Remember that?

    So CT was so memorable that this woman, who could’ve met with over 1,000 per week can remember! Wow! I’d like to meet him? (If I was 30 yrs younger,that is?) What a lot of rubbish. Who can remember the ‘experience’ with their partner on a certain date 7 yrs ago? Regardless of how fantastic or??? it was? Pull the other leg, it plays yankee doodle!

    Remember the saying….’if it sounds too good? to be true, it usually is’? Channel 9 has sunk to a new low now. I wonder what Laurie Oakes thinks of this?

    60,000 good reasons for this woman to make up a good story!

    I’m off to ring CT’s office and offer my support. Not for the alleged accusations, but for the crap that’s been on and on for days now! Disgusting!

    @MICHAEL DE ANGELOS – Re your comments about AWB – couldn’t agree more. Yesterday during Question Time, the sight of Kevin Andrews taking the high moral ground almost made me puke. Remember the role that Andrews, Ruddock and Kelty played during the Haneef affair. Every day, leaking to the media, even remaining silent over the Prosecutor allegedly told lies to the Court in order to keep Dr Haneef in custody? Not one of those people were ever called to account.

    I also recall Ruddock being called before the Senate re comments he made about a High Court decision that went against his govt. Disgusting, that now these people are pontificating on a high moral stance?

    @SB – Anthony Albanese quoted the part of the Crimes Act that Abbott has ‘offended against’? I urge the Federal Police to charge him! Or the NSW or whoever! This is disgusting! As usual, Abbott has gone too far, and hopefully, it’ll blow up in his face!

    CT will NEVER get a fair trial – considering that he hasn’t even been charged with committing any crime, this situation is pure political poison. Great example set by Abbott to every young person out there. This is how you treat people who have NOT even been charged. He doesn’t believe in the rule of law, and nor do too many of his colleagues and followers!
    Oh yes, I intend to ring his office too!

    As I’ve said on another site. I usually take all how to votes on polling day just to be polite. I intend tearing up the Lib’s HTV next time right in front of them, and I’ll tell them why! With a bit of luck, the Liberal candidate will be standing there at the time! I’m so disgusted and saddened by this awful situation.

    They stand in the House of Reps reciting the Lord’s Prayer, and then these committed christians (oh, sorry catholics – not necessarily the same thing at all) whip themselves up into a hysterical frenzy spewing bile and poison – every sitting day! Shame!

  32. Tom McLoughlin

    I was wondering where and when ‘the prostitute’ would turn up and the enormous credibility issues involved.

    I mean a prostitute who by definition lies for a living (take your pick – “I love you”, “I’m enjoying this” “You’re so good” “Yeah, yeah, yeah!) is being asked to provide solemn sworn evidence of the truth.

    Given the prior acting career, you don’t think she might be acting?

    The other problem with this angle is that it’s not illegal per se to use prostitues which is a different matter to misuse of funds. I haven’t seen any claim this particular hooker was paid with HSU funds (?)

    What if it was personal money? Hypothetically does a govt lose it’s numbers because an MP previous to being elected screwed a hooker, paying with his own money? There would be no professional class left in Australia if that was the test.

    Not having ever been to one, I may have to do some research though I think my other half would have a negative opinon about that!

  33. Clang

    I don’t watch ACA, but these comments reveal a shocking contempt for the women in the business, who are the ones who should be asked their opinion on what they can or cannot remember – they can speak you know:

    “I asked Cameron whether it was conceivable that an escort could remember a client from seven years ago, given the high number of men they would see. “Her claims have little credence. She couldn’t remember. She couldn’t.”
    “Some of the girls I’ve got here now can’t remember what happened last week let alone last year or the year before that.”

    Shame, Crikey, shame – not much acknowledgment that either women or sex workers have any intelligence in this disgusting piece of so-called journalism. ACA is a travesty, but you are hardly Pullitzer prize winners with this one

  34. David Allen

    “Is it because a closer examination of his policies (?) in a calmer and longer electioneering campaign where the media will have to concentrate on genuine discussion (and not gossip) may shift polls?.”

    I reckon that’s spot on, Michael.

    khtagh, “I see the light, I’m humbled in the glow.”
    I’m not with you, please explain?

  35. tumbrelpusher

    90 mins in moderation…. really???? am I that controversial?

  36. khtagh

    My comments about yourself the other day, I hang my head in shame.

  37. shepherdmarilyn

    And the thing is no-one was ever going to be charged with using a hooker or paying for one, they were going to be charged only with no rules around the use of credit cards.

    Governance or lack of is nothing that anyone can be charged with.

    And on the FWA website it shows Bernadette O'”neill was scapegoating Thomson and demanding the court apply penalties to non-penalty breaches.

    All of which were about the rules surrounding the use of credit cards for which there are none.

  38. klewso

    I wonder if she’s got any “dependents” – as for “recognising” him? He’s been on TV more times than Tony Abbott.

  39. Socratease

    Michael de Angelos, you have every right to believe what Thomson says, just as you have every right to believe that there’s a tooth fairy. I’m happy to call him a flat out l-iar.

    He’s dug this hole for himself. He plays the public for fools and then wonders why the media go digging into his transactions.

  40. Socratease

    @Maeski, I dunno what Jana is doing these days. Retired I guess.

    Yep, A Current Scandal with Grimjaw is usually not worth watching, any more than Barcelona Tonight with whoever, but I wouldn’t miss anything to do with Thommo. He’s made himself required viewing.

  41. Sam

    The 1280 figure cited here assumes that no one is a repeat customer. Even with a smaller distinct client list, I still find it implausible that someone would be remembered for so long unless he was a repeat customer or had some distinguishing feature. Was either of these suggested in the interview?

  42. Jimmy

    Anyone still watching today tonight obviously nevered saw Frontline.

  43. Steve777

    I think that any of us, regardless of our line of work, would have trouble remembering someone we met once or twice in the course of our work seven years ago. I think that if the interviewee wished to be believed, she would need to indicate a reason as to why she should remember Mr Thomson, who was pretty much unknown to the general public at the time. In fact if she wished to be believed, she probably should have chosen some vehicle other than ACA.

  44. Liz45

    National Press Club – 16th May inst.
    MARK RILEY: Mark Riley from the Seven Network, Mr Hockey. If Craig Thomson voted with you to carry no confidence in the Government and forced an election, would you accept his vote?

    JOE HOCKEY: That would be a moment of clarity for Mr Thomson that would be very hard to refuse.

    Just a clue to the real agenda!

  45. Socratease

    Frontline is brilliant. Get the DVD box set folks.

  46. Socratease

    @Liz45, the real agenda of an Opposition is to replace the Government? No kidding?

  47. geomac

    I think you have a wrong interpretation on the comments . The same could be said about a car salesman who sold a car to a punter seven years ago or any person involved with dealing with the public in financial transactions . Pyne couldn,t recall sending an email to a person after he had asked for their email address and that was after some weeks rather than seven years . Does a plumber remember fixing a tap for joe blow after seven years ? I don,t think the comments are against sex workers as such but the odds of remembering anyone after such a long time in day to day dealings .
    I go along with Marilyn on her point about charges and guilt . Why do you think no charges have been laid after extensive police investigation , forget FWA as its not set up for that . The simple thing to remember is that Thomson to be out of parliament must have a charge with a conviction of over a year imposed in a court of law . Not the court of public opinion or the bizarre liberal interpretation of justice where lib ministers are always above board even after being caught out . The main game for the lib dirt unit now is to keep it in the spotlight , nothing more , nothing less . Morality , ethics or justice have nothing to do with the charade of the libs but it seldom does with them these days . Even old Bolte would avoid this mob and he wasn,t beyond twisting the rules . Bolte was a long serving lib premier in Victoria for those unaware . Only man I know who had his blood test lost by the Vic coppers in regard to a crash . Yes , even he would disassociate himself from the present crew.

  48. Jimmy

    Interesting Albo is out today claiming Abbott has breached the crimes act in calling for Thomson to resign. Will anything come of it?

  49. Venise Alstergren

    SOCRATEASE: You’re falling for the sideshow of the Thomson affair. The real story is how the Coalition’s politicians, the media scribes and waffle-heads and the infinitely evil Rupert Murdoch, have stripped away some of Australia’s icons. Innocent until a court of Law finds otherwise; giving someone ‘a fair go’; decency and restraint; all these qualities have now disappeared out of political view.

    Meanwhile the infamous Tony Abbott, the man who has taken it upon himself to be the judge, jury and the executioner, has belatedly realised that Thomson’s mental state may be at risk. Craig Thomson may, or may not be guilty. The man presents himself as a greedy fool. If every greedy fool in Australia was up for judgement, we’d have no one left to run the country.

  50. Liz45

    @SOCRATEASE – Smart a^^e? The way to do it is via the ballot box, not by disgusting tactics that border on criminal?

  51. Socratease

    @Jimmy, Albo is desperate. He’s been throwing air swings in the House for a week or more. He’s making it up as he goes now.

  52. Socratease

    @Venise: I’m not falling for anything. Thommo should have been a sideshow but he’s made himself the main show.

    As I’ve said elsewhere, Abbott is a baying hypocrite for sure but then which of them isn’t?

    Politicians are fair game on ether side of the house. If Labor can come up with a Craig Thomson let them do it.

    Meanwhile, pass the popcorn.

  53. Socratease

    @Liz245 – Dumb a*rse? Where the criminality? You a lawyer now?

  54. s_keane1

    Why does the photo of the credit card allegedly used by Fairfax in the defamation case show the name as ‘THOMPSON”, not ‘THOMSON”?

    What’s your guess? Dodgy card or bodgy job by bank?

    Read more: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/craig-thomson-under-the-rain/

  55. Liz45

    @SOCRATEASE – As far as you’re concerned, there’s two sets of rules, and you’re more than OK with the Coalition writing them both!

    From someone who in one sentence speaks out in righteous indignation about events which nobody has been charged over let alone tried and convicted, you then insult our intelligence by insisting that anyone who angrily rejects the Opposition’s tactics is desperate!

    I know who the desperate one is? It’s Abbott! Most of those on the Opposition front bench have had accusations or at best shady behaviours in the past – and not too far in the past at that? To watch their pious outrage now is sickening!

    Even Ivan Milat and the murderers of Anita Cobby (probably the worst and most brutal murders in the country in the past 20 years) received better treatment than CT.

    In NSW in the past 24 hours, 5 adults have been arrested for allegedly using young girls (7 of them, the youngest being 12 yrs old) for prostitution. None of the hysteria we’ve seen in the Parlt over past weeks has been on display. The 5 people’s names haven’t even been published, and of course the children’s names will be withheld as it should be.

    The allegations facing CT are of insignificance by comparison! Get a grip!

    If Abbott has committed an offence against the Crimes Act, I hope the police charge him – soon!

  56. Jimmy

    SOcratease – Have a look at the wording of the crimes act and the actions of Abbott (who seems fairly desperate as well by the way).

    Abbott has been intimidating Thomson in resigning (or trying to anyway) seems a clear breach to me.

  57. Liz45

    Go to Albanese’s comments via ABC radio News. He’s made the allegation and quoted the particular part of the Crimes Act! I’m repeating what he said!

    As I’ve said before, you believe in two sets of rules, both written by Abbott and Co.? What does that make you? You fill in the missing word/s?

    a supporter of our legal system? I think not!

  58. Socratease

    @Jimmy, I’ll let lawyers interpret laws.

    @Liz45 I’ve already said let either side fling s*hit at the other if they have the ammo. The Federal parliament is a farce, and as I’m paying for it along with the rest of you mugs I might as well enjoy its antics.

  59. Socratease

    @Liz45, You’re starting to sound as desperate as Albo, LOL!

  60. Jimmy

    Socratease – You’ll let lawyers interpret laws hey, why start now? you have been happy for the opposition and media to be judge and jury on Thomson so why the need for lawyers all of a sudden?

  61. bluepoppy

    32 clients per week in peak times. That’s a lot of condoms, the latex industry must have been booming.

  62. Socratease

    @Jimmy, I don’t need a lawyer, Thommo does. In fact he needs a team of them.

  63. Liz45

    @SOCRATEASE – Don’t confuse anger with desperation! I’m not enjoying this at all!

    I just remind you that the boot will be on the other foot as some time – just remember that!

  64. Socratease

    BTW: Has Thommo made a statement yet about fresh allegations that he’s operated an American Express card given to him by a union printing contractor? (Said card also allegedly racking up hooker charges.)

  65. Edward James

    We will never at any time share any of your private information with anyone … guaranteed. Politics is often said to be the art of the possible. Edward James

  66. Socratease

    @Liz45, you sound like my mother. In fact I think you are.

  67. Liz45

    @SOCRATEASE – It might be time to remind you, that using a pseudonym is no protection against being sued!

    Are you self employed? Do you have a job – apart from the one you’re doing for Abbott? Or are you ripping off your employer’s money by making personal use of the computer at work?

  68. Liz45

    I’m the proud mother of three sons. I can assure you that you’re not one of them! I’d be ashamed if they engaged in the type of garbage you are! I think I gave them better values than that!

  69. Socratease

    @LIZ45, who do you propose might be about to sue me?

  70. Sausage Maker

    If the brothel this sex worker worked at was a legal brothel then I don’t see what the issue is here and what Channel 9 is trying to achieve unless they can in some way can prove that this prostitute that Thomson allegedly had sex with was paid for with a HSU credit card then there is no story.

  71. Jimmy

    Socratease – You are contradicting yourself so much that I am starting to thinks you are one of the coalition economic team.

  72. Socratease

    @Sausage Maker, the story is that Thomson denies it was him and accuses union people of setting him up. Bit by bit his story is falling apart as the media follows the transactions to their source.

  73. James K

    Some of the most miserable and spiteful people who blog, use false names. Not all, but some.

    I would be happy to have Crikey tell us all that we have to use our full real names, to comment. It would lift the debate and make it much more civil. And more solid. We would all be more careful of what we say, what facts we supposedly cite… all that.

    Absurdities and lies, fictitous data, and slander – all come out under pen names.

    I use to use my full name, but hated the hate mail and the miserable people who would attack the person not the argument. So I have caved in and only use my real first name now.

    Really, the comments that get made on these crikey articles are pretty thin a lot of the time. Unkind, shallow nonesense. When people try to have an intelligent conversation, it gets hijacked by the simple minded. Almost makes me not want to join in.

    I still like the articles most of the time.

  74. Meski

    Even if it was, Sausage, there’s no story. Corporate cards, corporate policy applies. Some (like mine) you can’t put anything non company related on it. Others don’t care, as long as you pay it at the end of the month. You’re jointly and severally liable for the thing anyway.

  75. Meski

    @Socratease: So your assertion is that it is only about a politician’s truthfulness? (Laughs hysterically)

  76. Salamander

    There is no place for cynicism or political passivity in a democracy. Armchair smartarses are despicable. They and the apathetic self-indulgent are to blame for the degenerate state of political discourse. Corporate-corrupted media lackeys titillate and terrify a punch-drunk public.

  77. Socratease

    @Jimmy, where’s the contradiction? Here’s a summary:

    1) I consider Thomson a flat out l-iar
    2) I think Abbott is a baying hypocrite, as are all pollies
    3) The main agenda of any Opposition is to replace the Government
    4) Albo is desperate to land a punch having got nowhere in the House for a week
    5) I consider Federal parliament a farce, but as I pay for it I might as well enjoy its antics
    6) I’ll be watching the hooker interview when and if it airs
    7) Pass the popcorn

  78. Socratease

    @Meski, in the words of Gillard herself: “A line has been crossed”.

  79. Socratease

    @Jimmy, I did respond but seems I’ve triggered the auto-moderator.

  80. Michael de Angelos

    my prediction (I was correct on Utegate long before the media)-this will blow up in the Coalition’s face.

    Just as it wasn’t believable that a multi-millionaire with a wife worth ten times he, that Kevin Rudd would need to rort anything to do with an old truck, so do aspects of the Thomson affair ring alarm bells.

    As we now know (but not seen in the popular media) Thomson’s immediate predecesor was ‘busted’ for exactly the same thing Thomson is accused off-using a union credit card for sex-workers. The fact that the person accused of using credit cards for the same was also the partner of Thomson’s chief accuser should surely have Big Ben peeling.

    It defies credibility that Thomson would then go and do exactly as he predecessor had done , knowing the exposure that could result. Particualrly as he had access to withdrawing cash on these cards to pay for anything.

    Tony Abbott may be a clean skin on the bordello front but he needs to tread carefully on behalf of his MPs. The houses of ill-repute in Fyshwick all have cameras and credit facilities too. And long memories.

  81. Liz45

    @SOCRATEASE – You’ve (almost) come straight out with a guilty verdict? People have sued for less. Any decent Barrister (let alone a Silk?) would put forward a good argument for any future court case to be thrown out? You will be partly responsible for that?

    How come you can use your work computer? Sitting next to Abbott are you?

    Just remember this week! There’ll be heaps of people who’ll also remember!

    ‘What goes around comes around’? I hope!

  82. Jimmy

    Socratease – Thanks for letting me know I was going out of my mind waiting for the response. I can sleep easy knowing that you responded to me.

    And in a strange quirk of fate the post alerting me to the fact you had responded is the most intelligent thing you have posted all day.

  83. Michael de Angelos

    Posted Friday, 25 May 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    @Sausage Maker, the story is that Thomson denies it was him and accuses union people of setting him up. Bit by bit his story is falling apart as the media follows the transactions to their source.”

    I have no idea of the truth SOCRATEASE but I would question your analysis that Thomson’s story is “falling apart”-rather the accuser’s stories are the ones now under scrutiny..

    An ACA “investigation” should be treated as what it is- a beat-up.

    Thomson maintains someone used credit cards in his name. I had a call a few months ago from VISA questioning a $2000 attempt to spend on my card in Bangkok. Haven’t been there for 6 years. The shopkeeper retained the card-a clone of mine.

    Kate McClymont’s Twitter response to the question of why a credit card published by Fairfax read THOMPSON and not THOMSON was “ask him, he spent the money”. Hardly a credible answer from a so-called ‘senior journalist” and one who is vested with seeking the truth.

  84. Socratease

    @LIZ45, I’m calling the guy a li-ar and I’m happy to do that right to his face.

    And why would I sit next to Abbott while calling him a baying hypocrite, which he is?

    Yes, what comes around goes around. It’s called Federal politics.

  85. Liz45

    @MICHAEL DE ANGELOS – Interesting information Michael. I didn’t know about his predecesor’s experience. Very interesting indeed!

    I believe that the tide is turning – not fast enough for me! Bring it on I say!

    Time someone checked out Abbott’s behaviour while he was at Uni in Sydney? Didn’t he go to the same catholic section where all those ‘students’ were thrown out for making a young woman drink alcohol, even though she asserted that she was allergic? She nearly died!

    How about someone doing some digging about his past! Bring it on too, I say!

    Well, as the americans say, ‘I’m done’? I have more important things to do, like wait for my great grand daughter’s arrival – any day now!

  86. Socratease

    Love to you, too, Jimbo.

  87. Jimmy

    Socratease – Careful that might be construed as solicitation.

  88. johnson

    Hmmm, some of the blogs (not the mainstream media) are questioning why Thomson’s HSU card was spelt Thompson and if the security code on the copy floating around was for a “card declined”.

    Now all of a sudden we’re supposed to switch focus to a whole new credit card and a whole new set of allegations.

  89. Socratease

    @Johnson, if a card transaction is declined (for whatever reason), then it does not show on the card statement. It’s the transactions on the card statements that have been the subject of FWA investigations.

  90. GeeWizz

    Yes the ex-Hooker is probably talking BS and just cashing in, but that doesn’t mean one Craig Thomson MP didn’t do the deeds in question.

    We’ve got his scanned license, we’ve got his credit card receipts, we’ve got his signatures on those receipts, we’ve got Craig Thomson SIGNING OFF on all these payments back at the HSU Office, we’ve got phone calls from his mobile and hotel rooms to these brothels.

    I mean this is either the grandest set-up conspiracy in the history of the world which would put a Mission Impossible episode to shame(and this guy was a *NOBODY* 7 years ago)… or the other explanation is the bloke did it.

    People who aren’t worth setting up don’t get setup… especially not with this amount of evidence.

    BTW even if we ignore CT’s $7000 in hand shandies, he’s yet to explain away the other $493,000

  91. GeeWizz

    Oh yes and I forgot to add about the comments about CT’s mental state.

    If he does do himself in, I don’t think the blame should be on the Libs, CT’s demons have caught up with him and he made his bed he has to sleep in it.

    I think Gillard should stop forcing him to sit in parliament every day listening to the attacks and simply let him resign so he can focus on his impending court cases. This is the only thing that will help him now.

  92. johnson

    Two or three weeks ago I would have agreed with you geewizz, but now I’m not so sure. I’ll keep an open mind and remain suspicious of any sudden change in focus.

  93. Suzanne Blake

    @ GeeWizz

    “I think Gillard should stop forcing him to sit in parliament every day listening to the attacks and simply let him resign so he can focus on his impending court cases. This is the only thing that will help him now.”

    Yes. The Labor Party let Milton Orkorpolous resign to prepare for paed oph ile charges, for which he was subsequently convicted and jailed. Maybe a good case here as well. Allow his plenty of time to prepare?

  94. Socratease

    Meanwhile, up the back of the House, sits a happy little Vegemite, watching what She Who Must Be Believed has wrought upon herself.

  95. geomac

    Why do I feel tainted for even replying to a post truthless ? Unlike Mirabella Thomson has not been involved in court proceedings as yet . Shouldn,t the government , on what we know , open an investigation into the behaviour of Abetz and Turnbull ? Abetz surely conspired to deceive the Australian public and bring down an elected PM ? No accident of act of passion but a premeditated act of sham questions to a person he had colluded with previously ? Reith not only retained his position in parliament he also when gently pushed got a plum job in the UK for his proven and admitted illegal act of providing his phone card number . Have to have a shower , truthles and his ilk makes me feel dirty just responding to them .

  96. GeeWizz

    [“Hmmm, some of the blogs (not the mainstream media) are questioning why Thomson’s HSU card was spelt Thompson and if the security code on the copy floating around was for a “card declined”.”]

    Obviously it was the OTHER Craig Thom(p)son from the Health Services Union(written correctly on the credit card) who just happened to look exactly like the real Craig Thomson because he also had CT’s Drivers license(name spelt correctly on there).

    I mean either that or the bank accidently spelt his name wrong on a HSU issued credit card.

    Nah… gotta be a conspiracy.

  97. Suzanne Blake

    @ GeeWizz

    Good point, the security number, the expiry date etc etc.

    They would have to have the physical card for that.

  98. Karen

    What a joke! Unless the escort can identify some distinguishing mark to corroborate her identification of Thomson, like a tat on his crown jewels and he exposes it for all the world to see, the ACA are just going to do their dough. I hope they pay her, it will serve them right. LOL.

  99. Frank Campbell

    The Member for Dobell is a fake. Only the signature is genuine.

  100. william gibbons

    so now we have the liberals turning into concern trolls,

    crocodile tears, to lump this much sh&^t on a person for so long and then turn around and say “oh, how you doing by the way?” is utterly contemptible, australia makes me sicker by the day, a reprehensible country governed by completely despicable creatures,

    the citizens get the government they deserve, make of that what you will…..

  101. william gibbons

    and to have the liberals only solution to craig thomsons suffering is to have him resign, or be hounded out of parliament is obvious they only want one outcome out of this.

  102. Suzanne Blake

    @ Socratease

    You are genius, love your post, pass the popcorn, I agree lets get some value out of Labor gross incompetence and waste, its an enjoyable experience on the stone seats in the Colosseum.

    “1) I consider Thomson a flat out l-iar
    2) I think Abbott is a baying hypocrite, as are all pollies
    3) The main agenda of any Opposition is to replace the Government
    4) Albo is desperate to land a punch having got nowhere in the House for a week
    5) I consider Federal parliament a farce, but as I pay for it I might as well enjoy its antics
    6) I’ll be watching the hoo ker interview when and if it airs
    7) Pass the popcorn”

  103. GeeWizz

    William the only way for CT to turn the pressure down on his pressure cooker is for him to resign.

    This bloke won’t make it to the end of the parliamentry period with the amount of pressure on him and the evidence flowing out it would bring anyone to their tether. The only solution for him is to leave parliament before he does something silly. The only person keeping him there is Julia Gillard and she needs to let him go otherwise she may have blood on her hands if this turns nasty.

    Either way there will be a by-election in Dobell, so I am urging the PM to do the right thing in both the countries and CT’s best interest(assuming she cares about more than her desperate grip on power) and tell him she no longer needs his vote and to leave if he wants to.

    Gillard always makes the wrong decision and this will be another case of too little too late.

  104. Andrew McIntosh

    “Some of the girls I’ve got here now can’t remember what happened last week let alone last year or the year before that.”

    If my boss spoke about me like that…

  105. Michael de Angelos

    ACA are bleating that they haven’t paid for the story-yet.

    They have however flown the woman abroad. Didn’t the disgraceful but unsuccessful attempts by CH 7 to bring down the late solicitor John Marsden demonstrate that people will say anything for a sum of money plus accomodation?.

    Tony Abbott was on morning TV today urging Craig Thomson to “get out of politics”, “resign”. There is an implication here-that should Thomson leave Parliament the attacks will stop.

    When does this crossover into intimidation?. Albanese has a very valid point.

    When is Kate McClymon going to do her job and chase up an explantion as to why a credit card said Thompson, not Thomson?. She put this info into the public arena.

    Would anyone here use a credit card with their name spelt incorrectly?.

  106. Venise Alstergren

    SOCRATEASE: It’s a bit late for you to be calling for a court of Law for Thomson. Where would they find an impartial judge? I’m sorry to say this, but people like you are political scüm. You’ve slaughtered the poor bästard and now you want to send the remains to court. And the witless grind merrily on.

    SUZANNE BLAKE: Your deathless comments must appeal to someone, but not to me.

    SALAMANDER: Very well said.


  107. Suzanne Blake

    @ Venise Alstergren

    You are just annoyed your lefty mates are in their final moments

  108. seriously?

    Can someone please clarify, is this prostitute claiming that she recalls (somewhat incredibly) having sex with Criaig Thomson in 2005 AND that he used a Union credit card for that session, or just the sex part (and has no comment on how he paid)? So is this issue just about having sex with a prostitute (oh dear, how embarrassing) or is it still the credit card “issue”?

    Can someone in the Opposition and/or media please spend some time on dealing with things that actually matter to the welfare of this country and it’s people, instead of just (in the case of the Oppositon) pushing an agenda solely focused on their own interests? This whole affair has no relevance or impact on the lives of anyone I know.

  109. Rena Zurawel

    Just wonering what ‘papparazzi’ really means? Can the term apply to politicians as well?

  110. Socratease

    Venise, show me where I’m “calling for a court of Law for Thomson”.

    Waiting …

  111. Socratease


    Thomson stood up in parliament and accused a number of people of deliberately setting him up vis-a-vis his union credit cards and hookers. The issue now is his credibility in relation to what he told parliament.

    Prior to that the FWA published a damning 1,100 pages of material on Thomson’s activities while he was National Secretary of the HSU. On the basis of that report Gillard herself said “a line has been crossed” and Thomson was suspended by the Labor party.

    Note well: The Prime Minister had him sent to Coventry, not the leader of the Opposition. If Labor didn’t depend on his vote to retain government, you can bet he’d be nowhere to be found, let alone sitting on the cross benches.

  112. william gibbons

    geewizz: crocodile tears,

    can’t you hear what your saying?

    “resign or we’ll hound you out of parliament”

    you are disgusting, and everyone like you. don’t insult my intelligence by pretending you have any compassion for the member for dobell, you and your ilk want one thing, and one thing only, that is for the government of the day to be disbanded before the next scheduled election. the idiots of the australian electorate may be fooled by your faux compassion, but not me.

    question: why did you not think about craig thomsons health before you began relentlessly pursuing him and sullying his name at every opportunity? only when a liberal backbencher has raised concerns do you now put on this charade of crocodile tears for his well being. you make me sick. you and everyone like you.

  113. william gibbons

    i wrote an unflattering reply to geewizz, which is caught in moderation.

    to sum it up: you are a despicable human being, and your crocodile tears mean nothing to me.

  114. seriously?

    @Socratease – I have heard all of that before, but it’s hardly of any relevance to my life, or for that matter, 99.9999% of the Australian population. It’s all about Tony Abott’s push to get a job promotion.

    So, on the “prostitute issue”, I’m still curious to know whether she is saying the root in question was on the union’s card or was it on Thompson’s own account?…..just curious

  115. Socratease

    ^ If you’re talking about Nine’s hooker, I don’t know what she’s claiming as I haven’t seen the interview.

    Politicians like to think that they are at the centre of our universe, but fact is life goes on without them. In fact, life goes on very well without them.

    But politicians are the price of democracy, and seeing as we pay for the b-astards — often for life with the outrageous superannuation scheme they cooked up for themselves — it pays to keep an eye on their shenanigans.

    Given the choice, I wouldn’t feed either Gillard or Abbott. However, since I (and anybody else who pays taxes) do feed them, then I suppose I ought to get some entertainment from the three ring circus that they inhabit.

  116. AR

    Can anyone recall an issue involving national policy or the common weal raised by MM & his ugly ilk this year?
    To sum up their recent mewlings –
    Prostitution is legal.
    CT broke no rules as to use of his credit card for the simple reason that there were none.
    The suggestion that he’d used union funds for his election campaign was examined & dismissed the AEC.
    …errr… that’s it.

  117. Robert Bruce

    Abbott’s hypocrisy is exposed by his call for CT to resign for the sake of his mental health. I thought it was supposed to be about the alleged misuse of union funds, but no, its just about forcing an election he expects to win.

  118. wyane

    your editorial mentions “gutter journalism”. but then you link to the Boredroom but not ACA. very subtle, Crikey. very.

  119. wyane

    … and why no link to La Petite Aroma? youse seemed happy to promote them while racially demonising other sections of the industry a few months back. hmmm

  120. eric


    “Sophie Mirabella must be delighted she is in the opposition and not a backbencher in a minority government facing the liberals . What has been dished out to Thomson would seem mild compared to what she would receive . Maybe Pyne should consult Sophie about dementia to see if he has it or just convenient memory loss like Downer etc .”

    Yep isnt she a nasty piece of work? – living with her ageing Professor of Law at Melbourne Uni.

    Im looking forward to seeing her very dirty linen coming out in court.

  121. Socratease

    I don’t give the proverbial rat’s rectum who Mirabella lived with or their age difference. However, if she’s got something to answer for regarding electoral contribution declarations, then by all means let the manure fly.

  122. GeeWizz

    Socratease my other post is in moderation, but let me put the Mirebella “scandal” by the Labor Hacks into perspective for you.

    Sophies Ex-husband wrote her into the Will after they were divorced. Years later he was diagnosed with dementia.

    Now Labor hacks claiming she “stolez” his money because other family members are pieved off because they didn’t get their cut.

    It’s your usual bit of desperate Labor smearing.

  123. geomac

    Google : mirabella and will of ex lover
    Note ex lover not ex husband which nobody has ever stated . You need to be married to get a divorce and that another mistake by truthless but why break such a consistent pattern eh ? The family members are the children of Howard , the high profile lawyer who ended up with dementia . These siblings got a terse response to their queries about their fathers wellbeing and what few answers they got were abruptly ended and no info was passed on . Both children are adults who make a good living and their court action is a natural reaction to perceived malfeasance and disgraceful actions by Mirabella to their queries . A wealthy man who died from dementia living at the end in a shack/house without the hospital care one would expect for any Australian citizen . Those are facts and its not me that says so but numerous articles if you care to google . Its also part of the court case which Sophie tried like Gina to suppress . No smearing just facts plain and simple . No vague assertions or faux exclamations about integrity . No crocodile tears for poor wage earners , just plain facts . Even the Australian printed it .

  124. lilac

    Hey SB when are the legal proceedings going to start re the budget. You idiot. Your interpretation of the crimes act was a joke then but you didn’t get the kind hint I tried to give you in relation to that matter did you? You really need to stop commenting on matters you have no experience or knowledge on. Stay scribbling for Twiggy and until there is an issue with copy give us your opinion then, until that arises please do yourself a favour and shut up.
    Now as far as the Geewiz’s & et al of this world are concerned, there will be NO criminal charges filed against CT in ANY court. He has not and will not be charged with any criminal offence because there is nothing of note to charge him with.
    That is why Abbott, Pyne, Bishop and Abetz are going hell for leather at him in the parliament. It’s the only arena they have to throw their accusations around in and the MSM are lapping it up. Note they are careful in how they word their accusations outside the House.
    Craig Kelly and Sophie Mirabella have more to fear from the PC than Craig Thomson ever will.
    Kelly WILL lose his seat.

  125. lilac

    @Liz45 I sent an email to my local Labor member and to MP Albanese (as he is the Leader of the House) a few weeks ago supporting Craig Thomson the man with well wishes to his wife and family. CT’s guilt or innocence is for a court of law to decide, not myself or any other but I do feel for him and his extraneous role in the denegratiion of the Gillard government.

  126. Kevin Herbert

    I reckon the reason she remembers him is cos he saw her numerous times

  127. Suzanne Blake

    @ lilac

    What about CT’s ex wife, the one who was the wife when this was happening, why did you ignore her?

  128. Suzanne Blake

    @ lilac

    Let me guess you are one of SS Labor’s life boat captains?

  129. Karen

    @AR – +1

    @SB – at last, you finally agree with me that this matter will drag on for years. Indeed, I would go so far as saying that there is a reasonable possibility that the prosecution authorities will not be able to land any criminal convictions on anyone on the available evidence except, possibly, W il lia ms. Why? Because there was no governance at the HSU ,no apparent policies, protocols, let alone records, it seems, to establish how money was to be used within the HSU or to establish exactly where union money was actually being spent. Plus, when you factor in the interests of the main protagonists and the accusations about how each of them, namely, W ill ia ms, J ac kson, and T hom son were sticking their snouts and trotters in the “free for all” trough, you have major credibility problems (for court purposes) with each of these witnesses.

    Thomson may be politically finished, but so are W illi ams and J ac k son. Presently, its in the interests of the Libs and big business (media) to not put the spot light on W ill iams and J ac kson, because they want to force an election through Thomson. However, the longer this drags, especially now that independent processes have now been engaged, these names will re-emerge, and I suspect, in a not too pretty light. This will be a great story for 4-Corners to break/cover down the track.

    @ Gee Wizz/Troofie – so, now that you’ve been sledging poor Th om son all this time ,you’ve now decided, in a fit of Abbott inspired “conscience”, that the poor man needs to resign for his own benefit. And its Gillard’s fault for ‘hanging’ on to him, not Abbott’s or the media’s fault for driving him into this position. And to cap off the bullying, Abbott is now putting a gun to this guy’s head and telling him to resign. For what? So, an election can be called. And he can win. Give me a %$#& ing break! Abbott is an opportunistic, p s y cho pa thic, power-hungry, nasty bully…to think that this man is actually going to get voted in, beggars belief. That man and this country should hang its head in collective shame!!!

    @Venise & Salamander – I generally tend to agree with your posts, Venise (haven’t really seen yours, Salamander), however, I beg to differ on the question of wit, hunour, sarcasm or cynicism (being at the outer parameters of humour) not having a place in political discourse. Agree there is a fine line between cynicism and apathy, however, its apathy that’s the problem because, as we know with political apathy,there is no change.

  130. Fran Barlow

    I don’t profess to know whether the substantive claim — that CT used an HSU credit card to visit a s*x worker is true or not. It does seem massively counter-intuitive that anyone of at least average social competence wanting discretion would use a credit card for such a service, and even less likely that they’d use their employer’s credit card. You’d have to have rocks in your head, surely. I’m no fan of CT, and I regard it as clear that what is not in dispute — the perks of office of those high up in the HSU, including Ms K Jackson — reflect very poorly on their ethics. They may not be criminal or even guilty of a civil wrong, but I’d be having a word in their shell-like ears if I had the chance. It does seem to me that the NSW ALP really does have a problem in vetting candidates. Had I been a member of the branch that considered his candidacy in 2007, I’d have been against it.

    That noted, I find it utterly implausible that a s*x worker working at a br*thel would recall a single one-off client 7 years ago. A paid nearly exclusive mistress with a small client base? Sure. But one of 20 to 30 clients each week? Risible.

    I’ve been teaching since 1988. I’d be struggling to name more than a handful of people I taught full time in 2005, or even recognise them in the street (though embarrassingly, when we cross paths they usually recognise me and expect I’ll recall them). Recognising someone I taught only once in a lesson covering for someone else who then left the school and never returned would be damn nigh impossible. There’s a lot one has to keep in one’s head as a teacher and junking what is no longer pertinent is part of staying sane.

    I can’t imagine that s*x workers would be keener than I would to keep their work in their heads. I imagine you’d want as much as possible to put those things out of your head.

  131. Karen

    Held up in modaration…why?…sigh… Make this a bit shorter.

    @ AR – +1

    @SB – glad, after all this time, you finally agree with me that this matter will take years to resolve. Moreover, there are unlikely to be criminal convictions, except, maybe, Williams, because of the governance issues involving the HSU.

    @ Gee wizz/troofie – so, Abbott drives this media outcome and tells Thommo !to resign for his own good. And he says its Gillard’s fault for ‘independent’ ‘Thommo still being there. You must be joking? To think Abbott is going to get voted in on the back of this force majeure, beggars belief. Abbott and this country should hang its head in collective shame.

    @Venise & Salamander – I generally tend to agree with your posts, Venise (haven’t really seen yours, Salamander), however, I beg to differ on the question of wit, hunour, sarcasm or cynicism (being at the outer parameters of humour) not having a place in political discourse. Agree there is a fine line between cynicism and apathy, however, its apathy that’s the problem because, as we know with political apathy,there is no change.

  132. Karen

    @ SB – to that I’d add credibility issues involving the HSU protagonists, as well.

  133. GeeWizz

    [“What about CT’s ex wife, the one who was the wife when this was happening, why did you ignore her?”]

    Yes CT mentioned his ex-wife as an alibi for when some of the rub-n-tugs were apparantly meant to be happening.

    I think it’s time we got her side of the story as well because to have an alibi you actually have to speak to the person in question(not listen to CT’s delusions).

    Perhaps ACA need to do an interview with her and get some facts out there…

  134. GeeWizz

    [“@SB – glad, after all this time, you finally agree with me that this matter will take years to resolve. Moreover, there are unlikely to be criminal convictions, except, maybe, Williams, because of the governance issues involving the HSU.”]

    Not too sure about that one… see even though he may get away with the HSU stuff because there were no rules written, there is a printing press company called Communicax which was doing all HSU’s printing for 4 newsletters a year at the princely sum of $600,000 a year. Must have been printed on gold leaf for that price.

    Anyways this same printing press company are alleged to have supplied CT and Williamson cashed up credit cards linked to the printing companies bank account. Now why would they do that Labor hacks… try and rub the 2 brain cells together and come up with an answer.

    It’s called recieving a benefit as a certain way in business dealings and it’s a CRIME in NSW punishable by 7 years in slammer. This is where the big story is at, not the hookers, not the $2000 lunches and I can see some individuals doing some real jail time over it.

    Story here:
    www .smh.com.au/nsw/thomson-union-printer-raided-over-credit-card-20120224-1trn9.html

  135. GeeWizz

    Uhh another moderation.

    What CT may do time for:
    www .smh.com.au/nsw/thomson-union-printer-raided-over-credit-card-20120224-1trn9.html

    [“Either offering or receiving a benefit as an inducement to act in a certain way in business dealings may constitute a cri minal offence, which can attract penalties of up to seven years’ impris onment.”]

    Anyone else here been offered a credit card by the company that does your printing suppl ies? Didn’t think so.

  136. GeeWizz

    [“That noted, I find it utterly implausible that a s*x worker working at a br*thel would recall a single one-off client 7 years ago.”]

    Yet you’ll happily sit there and believe that Craig Thomson… a NOBODY 7 years ago… was setup in a grand international conspiracy, using HSU ninja’s who jumped through his window, stole his credit cards and drivers license, could sign his signature just like him, somehow hacked his phone to not only spoof his number but ALSO to have it actually show up on his bills.

    And they were wearing a Mission Impossible mask to look like CT cos they used photo ID in one of the sessions as well.

    Come on…. just come on. I know Labor and it’s supporters are desperate to keep him there but you can’t expect the rest of Australia to be THAT stupid.

  137. Steve777

    @Geewiz – Mrs Thomson may be required to give evidence should there ever be a criminal trial on these matters and the alibis prove critical to the case. Until and unless that ever comes to pass, she is under no obligation to give any explanation to anyone, least of all ACA.

  138. Bewildered

    WOW all these opinions and judgements and we haven’t heard the girl’s story. Says it all really

  139. crankymax

    I want Craig Thomson to go thermonuclear on Pyne and Abbott. He should announce a fund to raise money to pay people for interviews about sexual encounters with Abbott and Pyne. They won’t have to identify themselves, and it doesn’t have to have been an illegal act. That would still be as fair as the treatment that Thomson is getting.

  140. Salamander

    I know nothing of Mirabella’s personal life and dislike almost everything she says or does politically. But reading the above posts about ex-partner with dementia and subsequent family discord, I would not jump to conclusions.

    From my own experience of a close family member whose partner had dementia, it is a nightmare – not only the obvious emotional devastation, but also the difficulties others have in comprehending, accepting and dealing with what is happening – everyone has their own opinion.

    Dementia is often diagnosed as depression at first. Once the true diagnosis becomes clear, if relations are already strained say between partner and step-children, decisions over healthcare and management of finances (unless prior wishes spelled out – very rarely) can become fraught.

    Loss of insight by the sufferer – poor awareness of diminishing coping skills – is more likely than not, so living in a “shack” may be their own “preferred” option, requiring legal means ie guardianship etc in order to make safer care arrangements.

    On this matter Mirabella has my sympathy. Whatever happens in court, I won’t be casting any stones over this one.

  141. Karen

    @Geewizz – why would ‘ninjas’ (your words) break into Thomson’s house to get Thomson’s card and licence when they had, back at the Union, a credit card with ThomPson on it and his licence details, later TRANSCRIBED on 3 chits, that they could use? And, by the looks of it, Thomson won’t have to be hanging around parliament, he’ll be going out on much-needed stress leave. Can’t see Julia stopping him from doing that.

    @Steve777 – agree. I’d also add that unless Mrs Thomson (no. 1) has corroborative evidence to support her account, she will potentially be a problematic witness. For example, if she undermines Mr Thomson’s account without corroborative evidence, her credit will be in issue as a potentially disgruntled ex-wife. If, on the other hand, she supports Thomson, this is less of an issue. However, she can still be attacked, unless there is corroborative evidence. Chances are she won’t be able to remember what happened on 7 May 2005.

  142. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    You are forgetting that the brothel, photocopied his drivers licence and the signature on it is the same as the credit card chit.

  143. Karen

    @ SB – That may well be but the production of those documents may have been forged by anyone wanting to set him up (and let’s face it there is plenty of motive). This not only relates to providing a forged signature on the credit card chit but also creating and producing a forged licence, which would have been easy enough to do if a photocopy of the driver’s licence was kept back at the union. I can assure you I have been involved in cases involving high quality forgeries of documents such as certificates of title!

    In my view, the photo of the man depicted on the licence presented in the MSM did not even clearly depict Thomson to the extent that I could not positively identify it as him (but, admittedly, that might also be because it was a bad photocopy or a photocopy of a photocopy?)

    Other things about this that don’t sound kosher either are that establishments of this kind will photocopy credit cards and licences only to produce it later to some inquiring newspaper. How long are such records kept? Was this information really provided from this establishment to the newspaper in question? Was the establishment in question asked to prepare photocopies by someone, so the material could be used later? Either way, I can’t imagine owners like Lavey being particularly happy about it. Not good for discretion. Not good for business.

    Frankly, I’m not prepared to place a lot of stock on this evidence in the absence of handwriting expert(s) to compare the signatures on the licence, the credit card chit in question with the signature of Thomson on an altogether different document, which Thomson identifies as his.

  144. geomac

    I suggest google what I suggested . A forty year age gap , promotion for a average young lawyer then a love nest in Sth Yarra that the family of said young lawyer was never told about . Yeah its true love till the goodies are obtained and ex lover is sole benefactor of will . Don,t most dementia sufferers end up in hospital care ? Isn,t it a normal and responsible thing to inform family members of a person health ? On any moral , ethical or integrity grounds Mirabella fails dismally and the ACA prostitute would compare favourably as she is only going for 60,000 and doesn,t pretend to be anything she is not . The other professional has to be accountable for reasons of malfeasance concerns . Its not a matter of throwing stones , its a matter of bringing to account a fraud .

  145. Edward James

    Almost every political all sort is represented on Crikey comment strings like this one about the MP for Dobell, Craig Thomson at one time or another. Some of whom know each others work product. Most people writing comments on Crikey and elsewhere for that matter are insistent on hiding their true identity. Many of you are preoccupied with fighting to promote your own political team into ascendancy at the next election Local, State or Federal. It appears to me none of you are all that interested in using this electronic soap box, as one of many a public forum in the peoples court of public opinion to expose the collective bad politics by many elected reps, which permits the peoples allegations of systemic abuse of power and corrupt conduct to be ignored by all our elected reps on both sides of government, at all three levels. Why is it that some of you including paid reporters, possibly paid up party members of political parties which have gone deaf dumb and blind in the face of often published allegations are not writing up a storm! Collectively our politicians right across Australian and the political spectrum, are impotent, politically inbred and very shy of the truth joke! Edward James

  146. Salamander

    @Geomac: I am not interested in Mirabella’s private life. My purpose in writing about dementia was not to defend her, but to reject a simplistic account of an increasingly prevalent illness, having personally witnessed its destructive effects on even a well-meaning family who were given the best information available.

  147. Edward James

    Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink In her public life MP S Mirabella would be able to explain to you. An opportunist takes the opportunity! Edward James

  148. Edward James

    @ Geomac. I can’t help but ask would Crikey.com.au be in a position to advise subscribers is there a Mr and Mrs SALAMANDER? Edward James 0243419140

  149. Edward James

    Suzanne Blake what information do you have access to about the push by Lend lease and others to develop the Gosford City Council foreshore land ? Edward James. Activist

  150. GeeWizz

    Karen can you tell us why someone was trying to “setup” a absolute NOBODY like Craig Thomson, whom 7 years ago no one heard of nor cared about?

    I mean seems like a lot of work… latex masks, phone spoofing, stealing his credit cards and drivers license and then sneaking it all back into his possession before he knew what happened all for a lowly HSU executive which 7 years ago no one could give 2 tosses about.

    Why did these HSU Ninja’s go to all this effort to destroy some loser no one cared about?

    And why did Craig Thomson…. SIGN OFF on EVERY…. SINGLE…. TRANSACTION? Why? Why didn’t he run off the police to tell them about the HSU Ninja’s making all these transactions to hookers on his credit card?

    It’s just not passing the commonsense test….

  151. Edward James

    @ Geewiz Craig Thomson has lost all touch with the commonsence test you raise G . Which is not all that surprising as he was a Labor Party Tool dropped into my area on the Central Coast to start with! Edward James

  152. GeeWizz

    [“A forty year age gap , promotion for a average young lawyer then a love nest in Sth Yarra that the family of said young lawyer was never told about . Yeah its true love till the goodies are obtained and ex lover is sole benefactor of will”]

    So an old man taking advantage of some hot young tail is a “victim” of the said gold digger. Really??

    Sounds like they both got what they wanted, she wanted a good lifestyle and he wanted some young spring chicken.

    This is the typical bit of misogynist se xism we have come to expect from Labor supporters.

  153. geomac

    I can see what your getting at and have noticed your point of view on that topic before . I can also understand the wish to have a simple name thats easy to remember and avoid being hunted down by using a real name . I have occasionally had letters printed in the media with the usual name and suburb printed as well . In the act of stating my view I received some nasty letters which never had the name of the authors . Even one letter that was not full of vitriol but a polite rebuttal of my view didn,t supply a name . Now why would people take the trouble to hunt down an address from the phone book or whatever and send a letter with foul language to a stranger yet offer no rebuttal to that persons view ? Now if someone of little or no consequence such as me can draw the ratbag element imagine what elected people get just for being elected . I admire your openness and like you have suspicions of some posters but being out there is not for all of us .
    regards geomac

  154. Edward James

    @ Geewizz Crikey.com.au Perhaps now you have read all the reported information available in the brought and paid for media nationally you might write a brilliant novel somewhere else under your own name ? In the mean time Crikey readers and Australian taxpayers might like to consider the fact that every one of our politicians have always been a minority of Australian, the political population a minority which disrespect us the majority! Edward James, suggest you feel free to ring me Gee wizz 0243419140 Because I am one of tens of thousands of Australians who are not well represented by the thousands of politicians we pay ! Edward James

  155. Karen

    @ Gee Wizz – no latex masks and getting through a window, Troofie, just working off the licence details and the many credit cards issued in ThomPsons name lying about at the HSU.

    The motive for burying the guy? Because he made enemies within the union, he was in the way of one of them who now has his job, but more particularly he’s got dirt on them and the workings of the union that can assist or be used in any police inquiry. Why do you think they are so busy trying to discredit him? Because it diminishes the quality of the information he may give to police.

    I’m not saying Thomson’s clean. If you ask me I think there is a lot of smoke about each and everyone of the main protagonists. It is alleged they ALL misused union funds in a variety of ways and to varying degrees. However, the hypocritical political and media focus has been on Thomson, simply because of the numbers in the hung Parliament. And that’s the thing that infuriates me: Abbott has conveniently overlooked Williamson whom if you believe whats in the media is the worst of the lot.

    At the moment, I am simply not convinced that there is enough evidence, without more, to hang Thomson on the major allegations concerning misuse: electioneering (given the AEC response) and the b or dello for reasons stated above.

    At the end of the day, it is a matter of the investigating authorities obtaining and collating the admissible evidence and for an assessment to be made with respect to the quality of the evidence and the witnesses.

    BTW, I read that article you attempted to link. I had to google it. The allegations concern Amex cards (separate to the one used in the bordello) from this named graphics designer and printer, which were issued to both Williamson and Thomson. The article focuses on Williamson and how HE used the card. What information is there about Thomson? Similarly, there is no information about how this business came to issue the cards and, importantly, at whose behest? Do we know that Thomson even knew about the card, let alone use it?

  156. Karen

    @ Gee Wizz – reply in moderation. I have answered your questions. I’ve also commented on the article you referred me to.

  157. Karen

    @ moderator – the word ‘allegedly’ should be inserted after HE, third line from the bottom.

  158. Edward James

    Thank you for your reply @ GEOMAC
    Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 3:42 pm | Permalink. I am getting tired now. After fighting the overt political fight for more than ten years here on the central coast of NSW. I am getting ready to move on. while handing out ocl papers with my full page paid political ads ads generally on page nine I have been both rewarded with instant scratchies tickets. And also punched in the head at Woy Woy station by someone who did not like what I was publishing. My property was also set alight as happens when you promulgate an unpopular opinion. I lost heaps of my treasured hand tools when part of my property was set alight. Never the less this site Crikey.com.au is an electronic soapbox , where we the people may should we so desire expose the public opinion of the peoples.
    It is time for Crikey to step up and let those among their subscribers who do use our birth names enjoy something special which only Crikey may offer. Because there is an important distinction between those who wish to be known and those who wish to remain unknown I am tired yet i expect there are others who will support a change which may enrich Crikey.com.au Pushy Mr Edward James POB 3024 Umina 2257 0243419140

  159. Edward James

    @ GEOMAC again thank you for your reply. I have just realised readers of crikey should be made aware my birth name is being blocked in News Limited papers such as the Express Advocate and the Hornsby and North Shore Advocate while what the owners do is not all that important to me. It is important to people who submit letters to their editors in the belief there comments to their local paper will be published without bias is very important. This is a dream. Edward James 0243419140

  160. Karen

    @ Geomac- +1.

    @Edward James – pray tell, do you lump the man who goes by the nom de plume Gee Wizz , or let me see now, his admitted alternative nom de plume of The Truth Hurts (Troofie) in the same cohort of people whom you disparage because they write anonymously? It seems you don’t because you’ve invited Gee Wizz to ring you up for a chin wag. Sincerely, Karen

  161. Suzanne Blake

    @Edward James

    I dont have any info on LL and Gosford, why did you think I would?

  162. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    You are as delusional as CT. Do you write his script?

  163. Salamander

    @EDWARD JAMES Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 3:14 pm
    A strange comment. What has my marital status got to do with you?
    @EDWARD JAMES Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 4:15 pm
    QED. Martyrdom is not for me.

  164. Liz45

    Have to ask! Why did Abbott & Pyne sit in Parlt for at least two years and say nothing about this issue? Why did they make it an issue when THEY thought they could win govt by harrassing CT to step down? And then, surprise , surprise, the whole thing with Slipper arose? Not until AFTER he became Speaker? They allowed him to keep on voting for them during this time. Hockey has intimated that they’d be happy for CT to vote against the Govt with them? What does it say about the morals or otherwise of this issue, but more importantly, their morals? Smellier and smellier!

    Calling CT a liar Socratease is enough reason for him to sue – particularly if he’s either not charged with anything(therefore no criminal act) or he’s found not guilty?

    Isn’t it interesting that on issues of abortion, euthanasia etc both Pyne and Abbott would bore us with their religious dogma, but no sight of any so-called christian values here. What a pair of hypocrites? No doubt they’ll be at Mass in the morning? Enough to make me puke!

  165. Owen Gary

    Does anybody not find this whole issue a trivial distraction, but whipped into an earth changing event by the Murdor & other associated media empires??

    In any event here are some things to consider:-

    1. Kathy Jackson needs more scrutiny after being given a $100,000 pay rise
    1 week after the dismissal of Thomson as she was also targeted for having her
    snout in the trough. Her annual salary now $270,000 not bad for a paper
    pushing nobody with connections to the Lieberal Party. She purpotedly signaled objection to her payrise but took it anyway, (the pay-off no doubt)

    2. Her husband is the 2nd in charge at Fairwork Australia, & should have stood
    aside during this investigation given his wifes relationship to him & this matter, this was
    a simple matter of protocol but did not happen. It also didn’t highlight her
    ripping off the HSU which is what would have happened given fair investigation of her part in this affair.
    Instead she was given protection because she blew the whistle before the POO
    was about to hit the fan anyway. (she is some piece of work)

    3. Her legal team is fighting her case Pro-bono out of the goodness of their hearts,
    it is the same legal firm working on behalf of Ashby, for their
    onslaught against Eric Slipper. No doubt they will be funded by donations from
    Lieberal Party outsiders using dubious accounts.

    If you cannot see this has the “Fiberal party grubby fingerprints” all over it you need a stronger brand of coffee.

    It is also has that snivelling little excuse of a man Christopher “Nasal” Pyne at its core. This party have always been masters of dirt. It also has Turnbul shadow minister for communications when he owns many interent companies. Is this not a conflict of interest to his portfolio? (not much said here)

    Since Labors time in office I have never witnessed such a media driven campaign against an encumbant government. Mainly because they are trying to make the miners pay their fair share instead of continually ripping off the country.

    Should the Fiberals get in you will deserve the wrath you voted for as they bend over backwards to sell off whats left of the country as they prostitute themselves to their corporate masters. In the same way Mark Vaile sold Australian farmers out to a free trade deal with the US whilst they retained their tariffs on Australian produce. Now we get to eat rubbish GM food from everywhere!!

    Dark times indeed!!!!

  166. Edward James

    @ KAREN
    Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 6:02 pm | Permalink. I have been searching for grass roots people who are fair dinkum about changing the way we are governed. Not those who want to keep going with the rotten mess we are enduring right now. Edward James

  167. Edward James

    Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink. Its unfortunate you would describe my standing up and being identified for over ten years as martyrdom. Ask some of the politicians I have exposed with paid advertising if they see me as a martyr? As for the marital status of SALAMANDER. You missed the point.

  168. Michael de Angelos

    KAREN- I find it incredible that a bordello would keep a paper trail like credit card slips and photocopies of licenses for over 6 years.

    However someone must have kept these records for a very good reason.

    Will Fairfax’s Kate McClymont be questioning the source who provided these documents to the Herald?.

    Why did Kate McClymont write an unbelievably vicious piece 5 weeks ago, ripping into a private eye who seems to have links to the Thomson affair ?.

    The same private eye was interviewed last week by 2UE over ACA’s sex worker. He poured complete scorn on the veracity of the sex worker’s claims and hinted at dark deeds.
    That same PI was involved with the DJs harassment case which was hurriedly settled shortly after it was announced he was on the case, for a paltry sum compared to what was being demanded.

    Was it a mere co-incidence that McClymont ripped into him?

    There is so much subterfuge in this matter and the media are up to their necks in it either deliberately or by neglect.

  169. Edward James

    Posted Saturday, 26 May 2012 at 6:10 pm | Permalink
    @Edward James I dont have any info on LL and Gosford, why did you think I would? I asked because I believe you live near Gosford and would be aware of the PPP being pushed by the Gosford Mayor our State government and others which involves converting our foreshore to private ownership, permitting the development of finger wharfs and other absolute waterfront uses all of which will remove much of our open space which these developers see only as an opportunity to convert public land into money in their pockets. BTW you have more than once told readers about a photo of Milton the horrible Orkopolous which hangs on the wall outside the Treasurer s Office, I would really like to have a photo identifying its location, if its still there. Could you arrange that? Edward James

  170. Suzanne Blake

    @ Edward James

    I am aware of the development in so far as I read in the Advocate or see on the news. I don’t know any Counsellors or PPP conspiracy, to comment. Sorry.

    But I do know that Gosford is a ghost town and needs to be completely re-development.

  171. Karen

    @ SB – delusional? You’ve just agreed with me that the Thomson imbroglio will probably take years to resolve if a case is mounted against him because of the state of the evidence (so far) and the low credibility of his chief accusers who are under investigation for similar issues.

    The whole point of my posts has been to illustrate the flaws in the current ‘evidence ‘ against Thomson in light of his defences. Unless the ‘evidence’ against Thomson is further corroborated, it will be difficult to secure a conviction. Its as simple as that. And I can’t say that the parliamentary privileges committee is going to be able to move forward without further information coming from the investigation authorities.

    If you are STILL wondering where I am coming from, can I say this: I am a product of my training. I don’t believe anyone is guilty of an offence until there is admissible evidence adduced before a court in which a trier of fact and law is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that a person is guilty as charged. I am trained and required by my job to analyse evidence.This means applying logic and deductive reasoning. Which I appreciate is a foreign concept to you.

    Now, getting back to the subject of delusion. I make the following comments about your posts, which makes your abuse of me hypocritical to say the least. Your predictions in the past have always, but always, been wrong. Your ‘analysis’, if you can call it that, lacks logic, perspicacity and reasoning. You rarely answer questions. You simply change the subject or get off site. In short, you are an immensely irritating, self interested human being of particularly average intellect.

  172. sickofitall

    I can’t believe there is defense of mirabella. Now, yes, I don’t care what she gets up to in her private life, except when she bleats on about family values, it smacks of dishonesty. Oh, and I notice that once Chris pyne entered the slipper debate ( on the wrong side) we all shut up about it. The current crop of politicians make me sick.

  173. Karen

    @ Michael De Angelos – you make very interesting points about the veracity of the records. The state of the evidence in my opinion is equivocal without corroborating material, particularly in light of Thomson’s defences. Other potential witnesses are also under investigation, so I suspect the issue of credibility, whether it relates to evidence or witnesses will be the principal issue in any future hearing.

  174. Karen

    @ SB – comment held up by the moderator. I’ll make this short.

    It is not delusional to point out the obvious flaws with the ‘evidence’ (such as it is) against Thomson , the need for further corroborative material, the need for decent witnesses, which was the point of my posts, you silly g*t.

  175. GeeWizz

    [“1. Kathy Jackson needs more scrutiny after being given a $100,000 pay rise”]

    Having a payrise isn’t illegal in this country…. maybe in a communist country but not this country.

    [“Her annual salary now $270,000 not bad for a paper pushing nobody with connections to the Lieberal Party. “]

    She was paid to be an executive of the HSU and cleanup the mess left by Thomson. She’s done an absolutely fabulous job… she could have just sat by and let the ro rting continue but instead she launched a FWA investigation, police investigation and brought the whole Thomson-Williamson pack of cards tumbling down. She was worth every cent to the HSU members but I can understand why Labor hacks like you just wanted her to shut-up and keep all the corru ption hush-hush.

    [“2. Her husband is the 2nd in charge at Fairwork Australia, & should have stood
    aside during this investigation given his wifes relationship to him & this matter”]

    It’s actually her boyfriend not her husband. FWA was setup in 2009 by one Julia Gillard MP and stacked with ex-union officials so it’s no surprise really.

    BTW hows Bill Shortens wife going…. uno the one…. the daughter of Governor-General Quentin Bryce? Conflict of interest you were saying….

    [“It also didn’t highlight her ripping off the HSU which is what would have happened given fair investigation of her part in this affair.”]

    Of course it didn’t because she wasn’t ripping off the HSU. You are just bitter she was a whistleblower and CT got done in. Why couldn’t she just have shut up like the rest of the Labor stooges?! WHY! Da mmit!

    [“3. Her legal team is fighting her case Pro-bono out of the goodness of their hearts, it is the same legal firm working on behalf of Ashby, for their onslaught against Eric Slipper.”]

    Yes because they are considered the best lawyers in the industry.

    [“If you cannot see this has the “Fiberal party grubby fingerprints” all over it you need a stronger brand of coffee.”]

    Nope I see desperate Labor hacks trying to ars3-cover Craig Thomson MP and one ex-Labor Nation President Michael Williamson.

    Thats what I’m seeing. Why didn’t Craig Tommo Thomson do what Kathy Jackson did and become a whistleblower for the HSU union if he knew all these bad things were happening in it? Well because he was either involved in it or he was so incompetent he couldn’t care less it was happening because he SIGNED OFF ON EVERY TRANSACTION when he was there.

    You try and attack Kathy because you are bitter she blew the top off the HSU scan dal, you wanted her to shut up and she wouldn’t shut up…. so now you bring out the old Labor hedge and sledge. Pathetic… absolutelely pathetic.

    Make sure you send Kathy Jackson a written apology when CT and Williamson activities are revealed in court for all to see.

  176. GeeWizz

    [“It is not delusional to point out the obvious flaws with the ‘evidence’ (such as it is) against Thomson , the need for further corroborative material, the need for decent witnesses, which was the point of my posts, you silly g*t”]

    We’ve got credit card receipts, we’ve got signatures looking like CT’s on thos receipts, we’ve got phone calls from CT’s mobile and hotel rooms he was staying at to brothels, we’ve got a scanned drivers license by one of the brothels, we’ve got all these transactions SIGNED OFF by CT back at the HSU head office.

    Short of CT signing his own confession in blood what exactly more are you wanting?

  177. GeeWizz

    [“KAREN- I find it incredible that a bordello would keep a paper trail like credit card slips and photocopies of licenses for over 6 years.”]

    The ATO requires you to keep receipts for at least 7 years. If you ever ran a business you would know this.

    Most businesses(and I don’t know why you think a legal brothel would be any different) keep previous years in boxes for up to 15 years.

    [“Will Fairfax’s Kate McClymont be questioning the source who provided these documents to the Herald?.”]

    We already know the answer to this question and if you did any research first you yourself would know.

    The brothels involved provided the documents to Fairfax under a COURT ORDER.

    You see CT wasn’t too happy that rumours of his alleged going ons at broth els was revealed in Fairfax newspapers so he took them to court for defa mation. Now this is possibly the greatest Own-Goal in the legal history of Australian because all Fairfax had were rumours… no actual evidence, but what CT’s court action allowed Fairfax to do was legally force the brothels in question to hand over documents.

    And now we have it…. drivers license, credit card receipts, signatures… all there for everyone to see. And CT’s defa mation case?? Dropped by CT when it was clear he was onto a loser with that sort of evidence and costing the Australian Labor Party $200,000 in court costs.

    So there you have it… how did Fairfax get these documents… they legally aquired them because of CT’s failed defa mation case. Thank you CT for this evidence!

  178. geomac

    I decided to check out about Jackson and her partner and came across an article from a site called vexnews that shed more light on Michael Lawler than mainstream media has bothered to print . With the clear connection between Jackson , Lawler and FWA accusations against Thomson why isn,t this a talking point ? At the very least an Abbott appointee should have had a completely hands off approach to a matter concerning his partners allegations and her own alleged misdemeanors at HSU . Doesn,t justice have to appear to be done as well as actually have it performed correctly ? H R Nicholls bankrolling Jackson legal fees via pro bono ? lawyers . You don,t have to go to a fish market to smell something fishy .

  179. Michael de Angelos

    while I still have no clue as to the veracity of any of the claims in this debacle, everything you have pointed out could be dodged up by persons wishing to get Thomson and that is what he has claimed.

    In Utegate it only took one determined public servant to get the entire media and Malcolm Turnbull off on goose chases.

    Thomson has determined enemies in the HSU and now it appears there is a massive conflict of interest with the partner of the HSU person promoting the claims (who has their own questionable spending habits) being the partner of the chief judge in FWA which has made it’s own findings against Thomson. That judge is a friend of Abbott’s and was appointed by him.

    Yet the FWA’s claims re Thomson’s electoral fundings have been shot down in flames which brings into question their entire findings.

    Unlike Utegate, the loss of a Labor MP would bring down the government.

    You may wish success that but the fevered attacks by Abbott and the hysteria from Pyne with the added intrigue that all this grief about Thomson would go away if only he resigned but it is troubling for democracy (and considering none of this is, or ever was, actually relevant to the running of government as it happened in a union before Thomson was an MP- unlike the AWB scandal of $300M bribes to Iraq when Abbott was a minister).

    Why are so-called “investigative journalists” like McClymont, who has written repeatedly about Thomson and weaved together a conspiracy repeatedly reporting just one side when this debacle has many dark corners. Toss in echo chambers like Michelle Grattan and most of the Parliamentary press gallery and you have a perfect storm where none may be.

  180. Karen

    @ Edward James – so, you wanted to talk to Troofie (did you get a call? I bet not) about ‘decent’ political representation to sort out ‘this mess’ and, by implication, look after little guys, such as yourself? Well, tell me the last time the Libs ever, but ever, looked after the little guy, let alone a poor pensioner such as yourself? And no point talking to Troofie about it, his interests don’t actually coincide with yours – he’s a ‘businessman’ who, if anything, would want to see pensioners and the poor crunched, if means a bigger share of the tax pie for himself.

    And as for ‘mess’, what criteria do you have in mind?

    + stabilisation and protection of the Australian economy against recession during the GFC, courtesy of the stimulation programs, which was a filip to small business and the community
    + Commonwealth funding to the state health systems
    +increased funding in training and apprenticeships
    +a national disability insurance scheme
    + increased funding for carers
    + unemployment at record lows of beneath 5%
    + inflation at historic lows – within the 2-3% bandwidth
    + interest rates coming down
    + historic low levels of industrial disputation
    + budget surpluses now recorded or the first time since the GFC
    + protection of Australian jobs in mining sector
    + cushioning of underserving middle classes from “cost of living” pressures (read mortgage debt hangover) with yet, more handouts.
    +increasing the tax-free threshold from $6K to 18K, which benefit the working classes which, now, sloppy Joe wants to strip back
    +mining tax
    +carbon tax, first step in shift towards renewable energy
    + generous compensation for the carbon tax – Combet has confirmed that the electricity companies will be adding 3 bucks to the bill with 10 bucks coming back in compo from the government to the average person
    + a couple of hundred bucks are now going to be splashed out onto pensioners such as yourself before June 30.
    + pokie reform albeit watered down
    +humane refugee policies

    And your problem is?

    No, not Thomson, surely?

    Go and enjoy the sunshine on this sterling autumn day in Sydney. Life isn’t that bad.

    Sincerely, Karen

  181. Karen

    GEEWIZZ: “We’ve got credit card receipts, we’ve got signatures looking like CT’s on thos receipts, we’ve got phone calls from CT’s mobile and hotel rooms he was staying at to brothels, we’ve got a scanned drivers license by one of the brothels, we’ve got all these transactions SIGNED OFF by CT back at the HSU head office.

    Short of CT signing his own confession in blood what exactly more are you wanting?”

    GW, I’m waiting for –

    1. Evidence from handwriting experts to compare the signature on the credit card receipt and licence with another document containing a signature that CT identifies as his.

    2. Evidence about the credit card statement in which the transaction in question appeared as a ‘restaurant’ entry.

    3. Evidence about CT’s relationship with his alleged enemies and their relationships with each other, including potential witnesses who are also under investigation.

    4. Evidence about phone cloning and/or the use of union phones, union sim cards, including those issued to particular members

    5. Evidence about the union credit card with the incorrect name that was used in the transaction

    7. Evidence about licence forgeries – in my view there was no a clear image of CT on the licence

    8. Evidence about the newspaper source – did they come from the establishment in question or from other persons

    I could go on…

  182. Karen

    @GeeWizz – pt 8 – I should add “and/or at whose instigation”?

  183. GeeWizz

    [“while I still have no clue as to the veracity of any of the claims in this debacle, everything you have pointed out could be dodged up by persons wishing to get Thomson and that is what he has claimed.”]

    CT dropped his defamation case against Fairfax and one would assume based on this damning evidence.

    If he really thought they were dodged up as you claim, why did he drop his defamation case and cost the ALP $200,000 in court costs? I mean an innocent man wouldn’t do that, they’d fight to clear their name, not jump off the horse mid-stream.

    [“In Utegate it only took one determined public servant to get the entire media and Malcolm Turnbull off on goose chases.”]

    I called utegate BS from day one because:

    1. There was no actual evidence
    2. It was over some rusty $4000 ute, when Kevin Rudd is a multi-millionaire(his missus is worth over $100Mill, so much for the “working class man” Labor image).

    Here we have a totally different set of circumstances. We’ve got loads of evidence, scanned drivers license, signatures, credit card receipts from CT’s credit card, phone calls from his mobile and hotel rooms. We’ve got CT signing off on all transactions back at the HSU office. We’ve got a guy who has proven over and over again to misrepresent the truth(I settled with Fairfax! I’m not in FWA investigation! Police investigation, what police investigation?! I returned all unused cash withdrawls to the Admin office, honest! Someone spoofed my phone number(oh yeah and the hotel room I was staying at as well!) )

    I mean this guy is a walking talking disaster for the Labor Party. Like Richo said on Q&A the other week, he actually believes his own fibbie fibs, a true psycopath.

    Utegate took out Malcolm Turnbull, Hookergate will take out Craig Thomson. This is how it should be.

  184. Karen

    @Geewizz – and you know what, Troofie, since we’re dealing with the criminal standard of proof ie proving an offence ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, the police need to get a decent brief of evidence together, rather than the equivocal evidence that they have now. The whole thing is going to turn on credit as much as anything else. And the witness line-up is not looking good at the moment.

  185. outside left

    And troofie, gaygate will take out?

  186. Karen

    @Geewizz – Thomson says he dropped the defamation case under pressure from one ‘famous’ ex-pollie in 2010 and because of the status of the minority Labor government.

  187. GeeWizz

    [“And troofie, gaygate will take out?”]

    Gaygate was probably a rope-a-dope by the Libs.

    Slipper allegedly has a bit of history if you have a look at the 2002 accusation and his previous problems with cabcharges.

    Parachute in a good looking young man to work as his PA and let his antics play out and what you have is the perfect rope-a-dope situation.

    The libs never forced Slipper to make any of those alleged comments or SMS messages, he choose to do that himself at his own free will but they may have parachuted their mole into that position with the sole purpose of reporting his behaviour and reporting it to authorities.

    Of course this is all just speculation. If what I am saying is true though, Slipper aint innocent he’s just been caught out by a Lib mole.

  188. Michael de Angelos

    GEEWHIZ- repeat again and ad finitum : easily concocted false paper trail & cloned credit cards and SIM cards easy to do. Means nothing at this stage but does look bad.

    On minus side- bizarre that a bordello for all places keeps records after 6 years- I don’t in my business.

    You must know little of the complications of Libel & Defamation and the complexities plus costs involved. I have been involved in several including winning against British tabloid 25 years ago. In 2009 charity I work with was libeled by Fairfax-barristers advised winnable case (charities can sue) but at what cost?. We decided against.

    Thomson dropping case is evidence of nothing. Labor paying costs is evidence of nothing. Liberal lawyers working “pro bono” for Jackson/Ashby is bizarre.
    Thomson’s fib re libel matter is stupid but does not mean guilt .

    Whole Thomson affair is meaningless to running of government-was between a private citizen and his union 6 years ago.

  189. Suzanne Blake

    @ Michael de Angelos

    Obviously you have not had a tax audit (neither have I), but you need to keep records for 7 complete years from the last assessement. Assuming that was for year eneded June 20, 2011, then back 7 years from there.

    This is EVERY business in Australia.

  190. Edward James

    @ KAREN Posted Sunday, 27 May 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink First off tell us all your reason for being so silly as to mislead Crikey readers by telling them Edward James is a poor pensioner “let alone a poor pensioner such as yourself” For me failed Labor man and now back bencher Craig Thomson is distracting voters from more important issues which I have spent my own money pushing for over ten years. I am amazed I can publish allegations several times in local papers Gosford City Council misled the state coroner during his inquiry into the deaths of five people and no one cares. I see politics as a team activity not just for the two parties not much preferred but Greens and Independents all need to have a support base. These are voters who should be aware of and responsible for what their representatives are doing on their behalf to earn the money and benefits all tax payers and ratepayers support them with. It is my experience people will support their politicians doing the wrong thing for as long as they benefit, voters not only do not care they will actively vote to protect shonky activities by their preferred politicians!

    My contact details have been published for well over a decade. Edward James.

  191. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    Do you work in the ALP spin office / vacuum?

    CT dropped the cause after DISCOVERY, when we saw the details Fairfax had on him, including the chits. Game, set, match.

  192. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    Are you Zoe?

  193. GeeWizz

    [“On minus side- bizarre that a bordello for all places keeps records after 6 years- I don’t in my business.”]

    Well when you get tax audited you’ll wish you did.

    7 Years is the ATO requirement, no if, buts maybes, I didn’t noes sorries!.

    And while we are on that, why don’t you think a bordello… a legal taxpaying bordello… would burn their receipts like they have something to hide for the clients? The only way they are handing over documents is if there is a court order to do so(fairfax defamation case being an example), it’s not like they are there to cover up someones cri mes. They are there to make a profit and run a business, this isn’t 1930’s mafia run backalley illegal brothel slipping twenties under the constables door.

    If CT was smart he would have got one of those street walking ones that take cash only thanks

  194. shepherdmarilyn

    Suzanne, he did nothing wrong and the only slip they had was bogus –

    Everyone is assuming that Kathy Jackson is so honest yet she is a crook but here is the thing – as the problem was the lack of rules for credit cards and there is no penalty for that lack of rules the whole thing is moot.

    As for the Australian media pretending Thomson was flat out lying about being set up I reckon their own newspaper knew in 2009.

    Second Labor figure Jeff Jackson embroiled in union brothel scandal
    • by: Rick Wallace and Brad Norington
    • From:The Australian
    • 9 April 2009
    A SECOND influential ALP figure has been accused of spending union money on escorts, with enemies of Victorian union boss Jeff Jackson releasing bank statements showing payments to the same Sydney brothel where federal MP Craig Thomson’s credit card was allegedly used.
    Police were called to a union meeting in Melbourne last night as it descended into yelling and brawling between rival camps.
    The meeting was called by Mr Jackson to reassert his control on the union’s management committee. Mr Jackson, a prominent figure in the Victorian ALP, dismissed the claims against him as a politically motivated “dirty tricks campaign” and denied any misuse of union funds.
    As secretary of the Health Services Union’s number 1 branch in Victoria, Mr Jackson has been embroiled in a bitter power struggle with branch president Pauline Fegan.
    Ms Fegan last night called on him to resign over the emergence of credit card statements showing the payments to ‘Keywed Pty Ltd” – which takes money for clients of the Sydney Outcalls escort agency.

    ****”It’s a union-issued credit card and it has been issued to Jeff Jackson,” Ms Fegan said. “On the face of it, it appears the union credit card has been used for escort agencies,” she said. “He should have resigned ages ago, that’s the reality.”
    The factional dispute is at the centre of the claims of misuse of union credit cards for prostitutes and election campaign funds that threaten the career of Mr Thomson and could damage other senior party figures**********.THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE CLAIMS AGAINST JACKSON PRECEDED THOSE MADE AGAINST THOMSON AND JACKSON WILL NOT BE FINED FOR THE SAME THING.
    Mr Thomson yesterday strenuously denied allegations his union credit cards were used to pay for escort services and to help bankroll his election campaign for the federal NSW seat of Dobell in 2007.
    In a terse statement, Mr Thomson dismissed as “incorrect and false” allegations that he had misused credit cards during his term as federal secretary of the Health Services Union, including cash advances exceeding $100,000 over five years.
    **********Mr Jackson stressed that – unlike the Commonwealth credit card statement alleged to be Mr Thomson’s – his name was not even listed on the union Bendigo Gold Visa card concerned.
    Federal Labor, however, is already in damage control over the issue because of the risk that it could engulf not only Mr Thomson, who is chairman of the House of Representatives economics committee, but also his mentor, the new incoming ALP national president and HSU union chief Michael Williamson.******
    Mr Williamson faces no allegations. He is the primary union and Labor mentor to Mr Thomson, having backed Mr Thomson as Melbourne-based HSU national secretary from 2002 to 2007. He then supported Mr Thomson’s move to Sydney before the 2007 election in a bid to run for Dobell.
    The source of potentially serious collateral damage to Labor figures is a nasty battle for power in Mr Jackson’s HSU No1 branch as he fights to win control from union president Pauline Fegan.
    Mr Jackson and Ms Fegan have been brawling for weeks, making claim and counter-claim against each other about alleged misuse of union funds.
    Their battle erupted on the national political scene yesterday with the allegations against Mr Thomson, dating back to his five-year term as federal secretary.
    According to published documents, officials of Mr Thomson’s former union concluded last year that his Commonwealth Bank credit card had been used to withdraw cash advances totalling $101,553 over five years.
    The documents also indicated Mr Thomson’s card was used to pay $330 to operators of a North Sydney escort service called Aboutoun Catering, and two payments of $570 and $2475 to Keywed Pty Ltd Restaurant in Surry Hills, a company listed as escort agency Sydney Outcalls Network.
    Mr Thomson yesterday withstood Opposition pressure to step aside as a committee chairman. He said he had sought legal advice about possible action against “the sources” of the false allegations against him.
    He was confident an independent audit and an investigation by the Industrial Registrar would find no basis for the allegations.
    Kevin Rudd took no action against Mr Thomson. A spokesman for the Prime Minister said Mr Rudd would await the results of inquiries before making any decision on Mr Thomson’s committee role.
    *********The allegations against Mr Thomson were first detailed in a leaked letter written by Kathy Jackson, the HSU’s national secretary and head of the union’s No2 branch.
    Ms Jackson’s involvement further complicates the puzzle for the Labor Party and its involvement with the wrangle.
    She is the former wife of Jeff Jackson. Her new partner is Michael Lawler, a vice-president of the Australian Industrial Relations Commission, whose industrial registrar is investigating Mr Thomson.
    As news of the investigation sparked by Ms Jackson spread to embroil her former husband yesterday, Mr Jackson dismissed the claims against him as a politically motivated “dirty tricks campaign” and denied any misuse of union funds*********SO THE AUSTRALIAN REPORTED WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO AND NOW PRETEND OTHERWISE..
    He said there were several union cards at the time and there were also doubts about the dates of the payments.
    He was recalling all credit card statements from the union’s archives to prove his innocence.
    The leaked Bendigo Bank credit card statements, obtained by The Australian, show four separate payments to Keywed between December 2003 and March 2004.
    The payments, one of which was made on Christmas Eve, were for amounts ranging from $330 to $405. There were two payments made on the same night on one occasion – March 18, 2004. The statement lists the Health Services Union’s No1 branch as the account holder but does not say who the cardholder is.

  195. Lord Barry Bonkton

    Brothel Baron on Geewizz and Suzzy blake’s Tax and Law thinkings ” I think its all Bullshit “

  196. Suzanne Blake

    @ Lord Bonkers

    Aptly named, no idea as usual.

    look at this


  197. geomac

    The thing I find more incredulous than a sex worker remembering a punter from 6 or 7 years ago is H R Nicholls funding the defence of a union heavy . Funding Ashby and Jackson at the same time is worthy of a Ripleys believe it or not . Having Lawler as a heavy at FWA and being a partner of Jackson plus being appointed by Abbott , well not even Ripley would take that one on .
    The main point of the article remains valid and that is the point that a worker , sex orientated or not , would not remember a customer of average appearance from years ago . People who have been robbed by criminals have trouble providing a good description to police on the same day much less years later and thats an event to be etched in ones memory .

  198. Suzanne Blake

    @ geomac

    Maybe he was a regular customer of the same escort?

    There are lots of cash transactions os well as the credit card ones

  199. shepherdmarilyn

    SB, you are a cretin, you really are.

  200. Suzanne Blake

    @ shepherdmarilyn

    Cretins are people that keep making excuses for him and delaying the inevitable.

    Close to home for you, it seems

  201. Michael de Angelos

    SUZANNE BLAKE- your lack of knowledge of the workings of a bordello is admirable..and why would you know?

    I have done my own (very easy) search of the one in question. The name has changed hands twice (good name in the sex industry is gold). The $2 companies using the name of vanished in the mist. No need for record keeping.

    Yet not one of our intrepid ‘investigative’ hacks have asked the obvious: why have these records been preserved so meticuously ?. Food for thought for the meejah that all sings from the same song sheet.

    Besides : Craig Thomson is yesterday’s story on hold :
    today it’s a new Gillard / Rudd challenge and Michele Grattan knows the inner thoughts of she has Joel Fitzgibbon’s who despite denials, she knows better.

    Ch 10’s The Project reports right this minute that “it has been reported..etc etc blah blah yak yak yak”. Do any of these recyclers of gossip ever investigate?

  202. Michael de Angelos

    Predictions : deck of cards will begin to fall apart within month.

    Kathy Jackson gave the game away in a great Freudian Slip when she claimed on ABC 7.30pm Liberal supporting lawyers “believed in her cause”.

    Not unusual for a firm of lawyers to lean either way in politics. Mine support Labor and are proud of it.

    However : what is Jackson’s “cause”?. The lawyers aren’t working for HSU “pro-bono”. Lawyers are beavering away for Labor attacking clients.

    Meanwhile The Project spends 5 minutes detailing Gillard / Rudd challenge could be a total myth. In other words-the media happily repeats a non-story as a story.


  203. Suzanne Blake

    @ Michael de Angelos

    You are obviously not a Company Director, are you? If the companies records have vanished, then the Directors are responsible.

    But the records have not vanished, Fairfax got them on discovery on Thomson’s failed case against them.

    So if you have a company, which I doubt, better make sure you have records.

    Its not just ATO, its your State Payroll tax people as well.

    I have had a payroll audit some years ago, passed with flying colours, and they did spot searches was back.

  204. shepherdmarilyn

    The problem is only two officials are ever accused of using cards at the same brothel 18 months apart and both claims have Jackson’s involved.

    Dirty divorce maybe?

  205. GeeWizz

    [“The main point of the article remains valid and that is the point that a worker , sex orientated or not , would not remember a customer of average appearance from years ago “]

    Maybe he had a massive….. chequebook

  206. Suzanne Blake

    Oh @ shepherdmarilyn

    Sun stroke today in your veggie garden? Wear a hat

  207. Suzanne Blake

    @ GeeWizz

    Yes maybe he boasted. Acted the high life and was memorable in that way

  208. GeeWizz

    [“@ geomac

    Maybe he was a regular customer of the same escort?”]

    Well there was about $100,000 in unexplained cash withdrawls, I can’t imagine CT was dumb enough to use his credit card for all the transactions… probably just when he was desperate for a bit of rub ‘n tug and forgot to go to the bank first to get the money out.

  209. Suzanne Blake

    @ GeeWizz

    If you are right and he was a big spender, high roller with escorts, of couse they would remember him.

  210. geomac

    Some people just don,t get perspective do they ? Unlike over half a dozen or so of Howard senior colleagues if Thomson has done anything it was before being elected . Unlike Abetz , Turnbull and that dippy shoplifter Thomson has not done anything to warrant a resignation because of being charged or abetting a conspiracy . Police have run investigations and found no reason for a charge to be laid . Does double jeopardy concern investigations because if it did Thomson would have it in spades . Triple jeopardy maybe ?
    The issue is how far have the libs and their renowned dirty tricks sector worked to get this up ? Wouldn,t happen I can hear some deluded soul say but it has happened so many times before its almost commonplace . Have an inquiry such as on AWB but terms of reference to exclude government ministers or a campaign to disparage Wilke who correctly stated the WMD ploy was a sham . Lets not forget the big bungle of trying to set up former PM with a false email . Abetz of the weird forensic ( scripted ) questions supplied by Greche and no collusion ? If Abetz wasn,t in cahoots then what sort of cred has he got to be on any inquiry after that event , talk about moronic/moron .
    How about the article by Bolt , our little aussie Afrikaaner , writing from a leaked secret government document presumably supplied by a person who has a moniker resembling Lord …… ? Now the government of the time did nothing but for some reason hounded other journos threatening jail for publishing material that was in the public interest regarding security and veterans payments .
    Lastly Thomson could be guilty of everything but unlike Mirabella doesn,t face a potential charge that would involve not oly imprisonment but losing her right to practice law . From the libs not a peep about Mirabella which says all you need to know about their standards and how shallow their calls for integrity are . Here in Victoria a backbencher , lib of course , is being investigated by the speaker , lib of course , no police at all . The crime is not in dispute just if the member knew about it . Now thats justice isn,t it ? The member who had control and responsibility for a government car isn,t charged with anything but is investigated by a mate to see if said vehicle was being used by that members company without his knowledge . That it was used is not in dispute just his knowledge of it being used numerous times for long trips . Praise the lord , liberal justice and the scales are forever skewed .

  211. geomac

    In moderation but whats new . Suffice to say its a short history lesson .

  212. Karen

    @ SB , Gee Wizz – I noticed that neither of you addressed my last post at 1.25pm concerning the evidentiary problems I raised with the ‘case’ (such as it is) against CT. You see, unless there is further credible corroborative evidence and witnesses, CT may not even stand to get charged. Let alone convicted. Do you understand that? I’ll forgive you because neither of you have legal training. You, SB are a particularly silly g*t.

    Gee Wizz – you have an unhealthy obsession with rub ‘n tug places – your background shows. If the allegations against CT are true, he would have been getting more for his 700 bucks than a low rent tug.

  213. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    You have only seen the credit card stuff that has been leaked, not the full box rul, which cannot be released, until one step is taken by authorities.

    CT said his drivers licence number was known. Not sure how, no employer have ever had my drivers licence. But anyway, the escort agency had an photocopy of the entire licence.

    The signature looks identical.

    To process a credit card without the credit card, you need the number, expiry date and security number. How would these have been know, except the number?

    More holes in your defence than swiss cheeze.

  214. Karen

    @ SB, Gee Wizz – and before I sign off for the evening, I’ll leave this with you. What is particularly appalling and galling is that J and W are sitting pretty in their jobs, while they’re under investigation and yet, at the same time, CT is suspended from the Labor Party with Abbott trying to drum him out of parliament, in order to force an election. It might be politics, but its truly foul, hypocritical, sick and degenerate.

  215. geomac

    I admire the fact that you make valid points to air your views and obviously have a better grasp than most of us , me more so , but may I point out one thing ? Replying to truthie and SB which is basically replying to one individual is pointless . If you make a telling point it will be ignored and a different tack adopted or blatantly be attacked as rubbish that only a leftie would say . What is a leftie anyway considering Labor is centre right , greenie maybe ?
    I pointed out that contary to truthless spinning a yarn about Mirabella being married to Howard , prominent lawyer not the small time one who became PM , leaving a will to her after divorce they were never married . Not a peep because it was utter fabrication to pretend it was all above board and love conquers all . The Mirabella story is straight out Grimms fairytales with no happy ending except for the wicked witch . Thats why I seldom resist my promise to myself to never acknowledge the posters who make no contribution other than to muddy the waters while traducing all and sundry . For people who claim serious jobs requiring a fair modicum of intelligence they have a lot of time to spend posting numerous bits of fluff on numerous subjects without adding anything of value to the topic . I don,t work anymore and to be honest couldn,t find the time to post that many times on that many articles . Half the time I don,t even post a comment at all but see the usual suspects manage to hog the board .

  216. Michael de Angelos

    GEEWHIZ & S.BLAKE- but what on earth does all these alleged shenanigans have to do with the running of Parliament ?

    Happened long before Thomson was an MP and are in no way connected with him representing his constituency,

    Yet Abbott & Pyne quite hysterically scream that Thomson’s lawful vote should not be accepted.

    And how does the PM not accept Thomson’s vote ?.
    How could the Parliament , the Prime Minister, the Opposition Leader deny a lawfully elected MP his vote ?

    There is absolutely no basis for it to happen. And still the plonkers in the media rabbit on as though it were possible (and Stephen Mayne proves to be a lightweight on Parliamentary law by demanding same).

  217. Karen

    @ SB – its not my defence, its Thomsons. And you’re no handwriting expert.

    A credit card with an incorrect name was apparently used ,as was a driver’s licence. Thomson said those details were held at the union. There were also quite a few credit cards held in his name, as well. There have been no denials about that matter. He said that he had enemies who threatened to set him up. So, putting those things together, it would not , therefore, be inconceivable for a determined enemy to use what was available, obtain fraudulent documentation eg licence, forge signatures, clone phones or even use union sim cards held in the name of CT in other phones to make the necessary calls for the set up. Now, I agree it sounds like an elaborate plan. However, there is a lot at stake here for the players involved. And people stand to benefit, if CT is discredited.

    I’m not saying CT is innocent. Far from it. I’m simply saying there will need to be further independent evidence to corroborate the accusations. If such evidence was already available, CT would have been charged. Its as simple as that. There may be more to come, of course, but we will simply have to wait and see.

  218. Michael de Angelos

    KAREN- the only way Abbott can win this is if he forced Thomson to resign.

    I want to know why one single political “journalist” has not asked the obvious question :
    Tony Abbott, Christopher Pyne and George Brandis have all been vocal that “the PM must refuse to accept Craig Thomson’s vote”…..I want one person to tell me how an MP’s vote is “not accepted”.

    It can’t done.

    Yet the timeservers in the political gallery repeat ad nauseum these wacky claims without question.

  219. GeeWizz

    [“I want to know why one single political “journalist” has not asked the obvious question :
    Tony Abbott, Christopher Pyne and George Brandis have all been vocal that “the PM must refuse to accept Craig Thomson’s vote”…..I want one person to tell me how an MP’s vote is “not accepted”.”]

    The Howard Government did it with Mal Colsten.

    They would send a coalition MP out of the house when he was voting to effectively null and void his vote.

    Labor need to send one of their MP’s out of the house every time Craig Thomson votes as seen in the example set by John Howard.

  220. geomac

    History is a funny thing . Howard accepted the Colston vote until the Telstra bill was passed and while he was under fraud charges . Howard also installed Colston in the senate as deputy president on the same day he resigned from Labor . So much for integrity or values .

  221. Michael de Angelos

    and why should they GEEWHIZ ?

  222. GeeWizz

    [“Howard also installed Colston in the senate as deputy president on the same day he resigned from Labor”]

    You mean like Peter Slipper?

  223. geomac

    Colston was a senator who originally got in because of a retirement much like Carr . Slipper is an MP in the lower house elected by his constituents much like Thomson and Abbott .

  224. shepherdmarilyn

    Let’s get this clear. The whinge by “FWA was nothing to do with what the money was spent on, it was about a lack of rules.

    And the question no-one asks is why when there is no hint of scandal in Thomson’s life before 2005 and none since should we believe that he went nuts in 2005?

    Not a hint of wrongdoing in parliament, not a hint of one penny over spent or travel undeclared.

    Not a hint of so much as a phone call out of place.

    It’s bizzare to me that so many are so dumb they can’t see the bleeding obvious.

  225. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    The fact remain that dishonest Gillards days are numbered.

  226. Suzanne Blake

    @ Author: Karen

    You are using the Ivan Milat defence – failed before.

    @ SB – its not my defence, its Thomsons. And you’re no handwriting expert.

    A credit card with an incorrect name was apparently used ,as was a driver’s licence. Thomson said those details were held at the union. There were also quite a few credit cards held in his name, as well. There have been no denials about that matter. He said that he had enemies who threatened to set him up. So, putting those things together, it would not , therefore, be inconceivable for a determined enemy to use what was available, obtain fraudulent documentation eg licence, forge signatures, clone phones or even use union sim cards held in the name of CT in other phones to make the necessary calls for the set up. Now, I agree it sounds like an elaborate plan. However, there is a lot at stake here for the players involved. And people stand to benefit, if CT is discredited.

    I’m not saying CT is innocent. Far from it. I’m simply saying there will need to be further independent evidence to corroborate the accusations. If such evidence was already available, CT would have been charged. Its as simple as that. There may be more to come, of course, but we will simply have to wait and see.

  227. Suzanne Blake

    @ geomac, Sheppard, Karn, GoComSys and others (where is Jimmy!!)

    Commend you for staying loyal in the face of defeat and sinking, just like in the dark days of April 1945, those loyal to him, chose to stay loyal until the end.

    Also reminds me of Comical Ali in the last days of Saddam’s reign.

  228. Meski

    @SB: Godwins law.

    Godwin’s law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies[1][2]) is an observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”[2][3] In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes some comparison to Hitler and the Nazis.
    Godwin’s law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form.[4] The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. Precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.[5]
    Although in one of its early forms Godwin’s law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[6] the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or speeches.

  229. Karen

    @ Geomac – thanks, Geomac. Its like beating your head against a brick wall. Its very frustrating when SB, in particular, finally agrees that the investigation/prosecution (if it comes to it) into Thomson is going to take years, the implication being that there are currently significant evidentiary problems with the allegations against Thomson. But at the same she says that he’s guilty because it fits her political/ideological narrative. There is no logic or rationality to her position. She then traduces me and calls me ‘deluded’ for going into painstaking detail (which took hours of my time over the weekend) in setting out precisely what those evidentiary problems are. I then get so frustrated and offended that I end up calling her an illogical, silly, g*t. Aagh!

    I think I might have to give this a break for a while and have someone put a damp facewasher on my fevered brow…

  230. Apollo

    Gee you guys spend a lot of time on this topic.

    Thomson might not even be a victim of set up by political enemy. If he did not bother to check credit card statement it could be that he is a victim of credit card identity theft. There are electronic card schimming devices and video spy on pin number for syndicates to steal infos and replicate creditcards. I knew one young guy back in 2000 who sold those counterfeit creditcards.

    My fear is that it may not have been Thomson who abused the use but a family member or a close friend.

  231. wyane

    Seage promoting his mate’s brothels. Again. In Crikey. Are you being played like fools or prostituting your editorial standards? Maybe some balance and insights into Seage’s motivations can be provided by someone at ACON or the SA? Nah, too hard, just run unedited copy from some self-styled “investigator”.

  232. Frank Campbell

    From the barrage of comments, you’d think this was the most important political issue of the Crikey year…but Thomson is merely a deathbed symptom.

    Thomson and Slipper would be side-show acts in a majority govt. Trying to excuse either just makes things worse. Forget Thomson- his pathetic attempts at self-justification merely prolong the agony: for Thomson, the high moral ground is a brothel on a hill…

    Remarkable to see the rage directed at Crikey…for describing the govt. as “rotten”…
    We have people saying they’ll cancel their subscriptions…
    eg: Steve777
    “I’d have to say I was disappointed at this editorial. If it marks the future direction of Crikey I won’t be renewing my subscription. ‘Rotten Government’? This looks suspiciously like the usual lazy journalism we see elsewhere, regurgitating what the Opposition is spouting without challenge.”
    Instead of berating Crikey and the rest of the media, ask why the Govt. is in this position. The root of the malaise is the carbon tax, which in turn was the price of a deal with the Greens, leading to a minority govt. The carbon tax itself was imposed after a raft of minor “climate” schemes ended in fiasco and were dumped by Gillard in 2010- but there was no mandate for a more radical “climate” scheme in the context of declining public support for global warming “action”. Least of all in the midst of a fossil fuel bonanza and the GFC. Climate extremists on both sides have fatally damaged the Govt.

    The Govt. should be humanely stunned…

  233. Venise Alstergren

    SOCRATEASE: (25 May ’12 @ 7:51): Silly silly me! Because you have such a finely
    honed sense of humour I thought, mistakenly, that you might have a semi-dignified end for poor old Thommo. Cough, cough!

  234. Edward James

    MP Dobell craig thomson.., would anyone ask you to trust him to look after your goats?

  235. Liz45

    @MARILYN – I agree. Don’t expect any of the trolls to use logic or common sense. CT doesn’t come across as a misogynist or a dill, or a person with amnesia or Alzeimers? It just doesn’t add up that this man would behave in the manner in question, in a small time frame, but not exhibit such behaviours before or since? He’s not delusional or even ‘skittish’?

    Didn’t someone say the person before him was treated in a similar or same manner?

    IF what he did was so appalling, against the Law, criminal or whatever context you want to use, why hasn’t he been charged by a police person, somewhere?

    And, if he hasn’t been charged, isn’t all the gossip and hot air just that? An immoral act (as in using funds for matters not given permission for, for example) but not criminal – that’s if he DID do it?

    If he hasn’t committed a crime, why are people spending so much time going round and round and round?
    @GEE WIZZ etc. Answer question, please!

    PS – Incidentally, I think the Gillard Govt has done some really good things, and there’s more to come. In no way do I find it guilty of being “rotten”? Not a bit! Now, the previous Howard Govt? That’s a different story!

  236. Liz45

    @EDWARD JAMES – If I had goats, I’d ask him to mind them? I don’t have a problem with CT at all. He doesn’t look shifty to me at all. His body language doesn’t look nervous or intimidated even. However, by contrast, there’s a few in the Opposition who speak and look pretty shifty – constant blinking and searching for words etc – Abbott is one good example! Has form re lying, unlike CT!

  237. Edward James

    Craig Thomson is political scrap. No one waiting to vote at the next Federal election, gives a toss about Craig Thomson’s chances in a law court. He is identified as a dodgy ex labor politician, this is all about the court of public opinion. Edward James

  238. Edward James

    I often wonder just how many commenters posting on Crikey.com.au can be contacted by phone or email? I ask because I have often alleged here on Crikey and else where, our politicians are accommodating systemic abuse of power and corrupt conduct. Edward James 0243419140

  239. Filth Dimension

    @Karen – Posted Monday, 28 May 2012 at 10:11 am

    I sympathize with you. Having a discussion with SB or Geewizz can pretty much be summed up by this clip. Donkeys I tell you.

    (don’t forget the double u’s)


  240. Suzanne Blake

    @ Karen

    The investigative journalist from Fairfax previously said (when interviewed) they had boxes of further evidence, but needs approval to release. They got it all at the Discovery.

  241. Venise Alstergren

    FRAN BARLOW: I agree with you. I’m damned if I can imagine anyone paying the knocking shop with a plastic card. It defies all logic and reason. Is it chutzpa? Is it criminally stupid? Does the man suffer from a severe case of masochism? I will never know.

  242. Karen

    @ Filth Dimension – Tried pasting the link into my browser and it didn’t connect. I’ll try from my work account tomorrow. Thanks, anyway.

    @ Shepherd Marilyn 27 5 12 3.45 – interesting summary/extract of the article reporting the Mr Jackson/Fegan power struggle and what seems to be a general MO of misusing cards on brothels at the union pre Thomson. Also lends credence to the theory of enemy set-up if Thomson was perceived to be in the way of Ms Jackson and others at the union, as he alleges. Thomson is right about one thing – the management of the HSU was, as the article illustrates, completely dysfunctional.

    @ Liz 45 – interesting comments you make about a person’s history being a prognosticator of future conduct. If we are to accept the evidence so far re transaction history, Thomson is meant to have confined his brothel assignations to a short window period.

    @ Fran Barlow – you make interesting comments about the fallibility of memory using the analogy of recall in a class setting. If Thomson was a one off client, with reference to the 2005 transaction, then the identification claim by the worker in question is truly risible.

    @ Michael de Angelos – good point about that BS opposition ploy about not accepting a vote from a sitting MP. How is that supposed to work in practice, as you say?

  243. Hamis Hill

    What is SOCRATEASE anyway? Some sort of Haemorroid cream? seems to be some “Ego” soothing going on here appropriate to that part of the anatomy. The professionals call it “negative attention
    seeking” or a form of “exhibitionism”- look everybody what an A-hole I am. SOCRATEASE, will this neologism make it into the Macquarie dictionary?

  244. Venise Alstergren

    MARILYN: I saw the obvious but was attacking the present system of feeding the so-called innocents to the press lions. I haven’t yet ventured an opinion one way, or the other.

    BTW: What happened to the woman with twenty-twenty recall and willing to perjure herself? Did Chanel Nine actually use her?

  245. Venise Alstergren

    HAMIS HILL: I’ve come across SOCRATEASE before. The man/woman has a deadly sense of humour. To find out try visiting First Dog on the Moon’.

  246. klewso

    I liked the Marx vision of politics :- “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”

    [That’s Groucho, not Karl]

  247. klewso

    Venise – Shari Lewis : “Lamb Chop, Charlie Horse, Hush Puppy”?

  248. AR

    Klewso – Is there nothing Groucho didn’t get spot on!?

  249. klewso

    AR – Everybody loves Groucho’s takes on reality – look at Tony “(Thought) Bubbles” Abbott – seems he likes them so much (Julie Bishop isn’t the only serial offender), he’s plagiarised “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.”

  250. AR

    One of my favfourite Marxist -Groucho Tendency maxims is “I wouldn’t want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member”.
    In this case, I’m not keen to be part of a nation that would elect MM to office.

  251. Edward James

    @ KAREN Posted Sunday, 27 May 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink Karen while you are not identified in the public eye so to speak you still need to be responsible when being what is after all a public trust journalist, if you are interested in to retaining some credibility. Why have you felt the need to mislead Crikey readers by identifying me as a pensioner? BTW as you asked the Liberal State government is helping Federal Labor return our Woy Woy Public Hospital Rehabilitation amenity. Are you too embarrassed or cowardly to explain to Crikey readers why you felt it necessary mislead them? Edward James

  252. Salamander

    More Groucho please. Did he say anything about pensioners?

  253. Edward James

    What has Groucho to say on dishonesty? Edward James

  254. Edward James

    Has our Federal Parliament contrived to disenfranchise all the constituents in the Dobell electorate! Edward James

  255. Karen

    @ Edward James – sorry, EJ, when I saw that horrible link you sent me ages ago on this site containing photos of a fat, old man and other illegible and nonsensical writings, I thought you were attempting to identify yourself and your writings. Apologies if I mistook the man depicted in the photos as you or, alternatively, if the photos were, indeed of you, I mistook you for a pensioner. I would have to concede in this insance the possibility that you are a self-funded retiree.

    Good luck with the Woy, Woy Public Hospital Rehab. I can’t see the Libs delivering it to you anytime soon, if at all..

  256. Edward James

    @ KAREN Posted Wednesday, 30 May 2012 at 1:29 pm | Permalink I expect most readers of Crikey.com.au nationally can grasp the links and phone numbers from Mr. Edward James are fair dinkum! After all I have been politically active for well over ten years here on the Central Coast and also outside NSW Parliament for over four hundred days . Why would you now compound your very public stupidity here on CRIKEY.com.au by suggesting I may be a self funded retiree? What price a phone call to me Karen or from anyone else for that matter 02 43419140 If you had come close to understanding what I published in those 26 full page ads you would understand I am intent on changing the political face of politics on the Central Coast in NSW! Crikey readers may wish to consider the following information after KAREN noname has tried to suggest the Woy Woy Public Hospital Alliance is having some sort of a wet dream which I have been supporting with my money and time. I was invited to the sod turning with other hard core Woy Woy Public Hospital Alliance members where Deb O’Niell actually asked me how much money I spent in advertising and bus hire helping our Woy Woy Public Hospital Alliance win the return of our rehabilitation amenity to Woy Woy Public Hospital. Between Federal Labor Deb O’Neill and State Labor Katey Smith who both started out insisting our Alliance was wasting its time. Because it was a done deal and their was no way it would come back. Well years of People Power changed their minds Karen.
    There is close to $25 million dollars in place to support putting our rehab back where it was stolen from. Both Federal Labor and State Liberal Coalition have coughed up our tax dollars. What you KAREN had to be part of for almost four years to understand, the number of political hangers on who were there at the sod turning to take credit for getting the rehab back. One whom I had named as the “scribbler” years ago, a Labor Party supporter was actively fighting to stop our group even meeting on public hospital grounds.

    Thanks for the email but the Member for Robertson has no thank you coming from me!

    Edward James

    On 29/05/2012, at 4:24 PM, a local wrote

    Hi Ed.

    I received the following email from Deb O’Neill. It might be worth a quick thank you if you feel so inclined as it is a good outcome in an uncertain political climate.

    regards Jo blow

    From: Deborah.O’Neill.MP@aph.gov.au
    To: Jo blow
    Subject: Update – Woy Woy Rehab
    Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 02:28:35 +0000

    Dear Michael,

    As a passionate supporter of health services on the Peninsula, and in particular, the Woy Woy Rehab Facility, I wanted to keep you updated on progress.

    I am pleased to let you know that on the 11th of May, we had the official sod turning to mark the beginning of construction of the facility.

    This has been a long, hard fight for the Peninsula community and I’m proud that the Federal Government has provided $21 million dollars to make it happen.

    Today the community can celebrate the fact that work has started and a new rehabilitation unit will be completed by mid next year.

    Not only will the rehab service return to Woy Woy, it will be housed in a modern, brand new 30 bed facility.

    The project includes:

    A 30 bed Sub Acute Rehabilitation Unit for short stay admissions;
    Multiple courtyard areas for rehabilitation activities;
    External paths and rehab areas; and
    Structure to enable the future expansion either side of the proposed unit in line with the master plan for the hospital.

    I trust this is of interest and feel free to pass on any details.

    Yours sincerely,

    Deborah O’Neill MP
    Member for Robertson

    Office of Deborah O’Neill MP | Federal Member for Robertson
    91 Mann St, Gosford NSW 2250 | PO Box 577 Gosford NSW 2250
    P: 02 4322 1922 | F: 02 4322 2066
    Edward James POB 3024 Umina 2257
    and to confirm for Crikey readers that KAREN is a bit short on substance here is a link to the Express Advocate
    What gets a run on crikey is all about what subscribers feel is worth while!

  257. Edward James

    You have a response KAREN it is being moderated as of 3.11 but you and others may ring 02 43419140 {;-) Edward James

  258. klewso

    One of my favourites – Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.

    And – also pre-Abbott, but also from “Horse Feathers” – “Whatever it is, I’m against it.”

  259. Edward James

    BTW Karen. Crikey has that link which you mentioned it includes the double page ads identifying politicians who have ignored photos and other evidence which explains how the gosford city council has misled the Coroner during his inquiry into the deaths of five people. If you are confused then call 0243419140 Edward James

  260. Venise Alstergren

    KLEWSO: “”Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. “” That’s a brilliant and I’ve not heard it before.

  261. Liz45

    I love it too!

    @EDWARD JAMES – I didn’t realise that being a pensioner was something to be ashamed of. One thing we can’t stop is ‘mother time’? I’m a pensioner and proud of just being – I’m also a great grandmother as of 4.50 am this morning – thanks to my beautiful grand daughter and her new daughter! Very exciting! I expect the accompanying respect from now on! lol

    Loved the spectacle of the pollies yesterday in the H of Reps. How delicious was that? I hope it happens again – when they least expect it!

    Abbott said it was a ‘stunt’ and pre planned. Well, he ought to know all about stunts???

    The 2OIC of FWA wrote to police some time ago re HSU? Plot thickens doesn’t it? I think we’ll hear more interesting snippets in the future. If he’s so impartial, why did he use his position to intecede on behalf of his partner, Kathy Jackson? Any ideas, GEE WIZZ, SOCRATEASE, SB? Anyone???

  262. Edward James

    @ Liz there is no shame in living a long life as you point out! But I am not a pensioner so there is a problem with Karen misleading the readers of Crikey.com.au by telling them I am. Why would she then instead of simply admitting she was wrong to write that from a position of ignorance. Compound the very public attempt to diss me some more here on CRIKEY.com.au as a pro liberal by suggesting I may be a self funded retiree? Again there is no shame in that either but I am not retired. There are several nonames intent on pushing their political party of choice by imputing the genuine activities of civic minded pensioners and self funded retirees by implying in their mostly no name newspaper comments that these members of the wider community have nothing better to do with their time than stir things up. So many posters on Crikey strings give the appearance of being preoccupied in theory anyway with getting to the truth and exposing dishonest and corrupt politicians, but it is clear to me they are very selective about what truths in what political parties they will pursue! Edward James

  263. Liz45

    Point taken. I disagree with certain policies etc of the current Labor Govt, however, I also applaud many things that have been done for the better. For instance, today’s Sun Herald’s front page is an article re Nicola Roxon’s strong stand against Domestic Violence.

    By contrast, the Howard Govt was either weak to luke warm on this issue. The spending of monies allocated to education re DV being spent on frig magnets re ‘be aware but not alarmed’ springs readily to mind. Another is the awesome ads to be shown during the summer months when sexual assaults and DV are rife, particularly among young people, was axed! Even after a woman Psychologist, experienced in this issue came here from Canada? and was involved in this educational program. Kay ??? was the relevant Minister at the time!

    Kevin Rudd led the way re this issue also, and deserves much credit for injecting much needed funds in order to stop these heinous crimes. By contrast, take notice this November 25 (White Ribbon Day) of how many Opposition members wear white ribbons, or have Taken the Oath on the WRD website? Interesting!

    I abhor the policies of both sides re asylum seekers and cutting monies to sole parents when their youngest turns 8 or when they refuse a job due to lack of child care or transport! These are reprehensible – no excuses are accepted as far as I’m concerned!

  264. Venise Alstergren

    EDWARD JAMES: FFS Karen sent you an apology. What more do you want? Or, is it perhaps that so much of your time is spent at the computer that you don’t have the time to read all the comments, before commenting?

  265. Edward James

    @ LIZ45 Posted Sunday, 3 June 2012 at 12:53 pm | Permalink Because I perceive politics as a team activity. I spend my money and time working to change the face of politics where I can. I do this because years ago I went to my elected representatives on council with documented evidence and the idea they would do something about the abuse of due process and systemic corruption occurring in my local council. They would not. There are enough of us who know politicians do not like to turn on each other. When I stood up in protest I was able to see just what a cesspool of political sins against the people our elected representatives accommodate. I am not alone in using political tools as a means to turf out dead wood politicians from our parliaments and local councils. If we the voting public don’t exercise our votes to cause effective change it will never happen. I hope I am not the only voter who notices the contempt too many political allsorts have for the masses. Since the seats of (Peats) now Gosford State and Robertson Federal became unsafe, the way our taxes are being spent here changed. We have a new rehabilitation wing on the way for Woy Woy Public Hospital. What remains to be addressed by Greg Smith, John Robertson, Barry O Farrell is my often published allegations supported with photos, telling readers the council misled the state coroner during his inquiry into the deaths of five people in Piles Creek Somersby. This sort of misgovernance is permitted by bad politicians, and their supporters, team players. It is happening because not enough of us are wiling to go after dodgy politicians name them and question the personal values which permit them to ignore so many political sins against the peoples. As I have written on Crikey elsewhere. I would expect some support from an electronic paper which made its name exposing stuff governments and captains of industry would have liked to keep hidden. I believe there are people who read Crikey.com.au who know exactly what I am writing about. I also believe our politicians pay others to keep an eye on what is being promulgated here and elsewhere. Edward James

  266. Liz45

    @EDWARD JAMES – We had a similar situation in Wollongong and Shellharbour. Both Councils were sacked, but surprise surprise, nobody has been punished for the alleged corruption in W’gong Council? I suspect the motivation was to get rid of them so the ALP wouldn’t cop the fall out in a State Election. However, we now know the result of the NSW State Election.

    We have O’Farrell who didn’t really offer any policies, and now uses the “mandate” argument to do what he wants. First to cut the incomes of hard working public servants to 2.5%, puffing his chest out when politicians only gave themselves the same pay rise? Of course, the fact that they already enjoy at least $100,000+ more before they start is ignored. We’ll have gun happy idiots in National Parks; the state electricity goodies will be sold off, and as of the weekend, State buses are next. None of these things were mentioned leading up to the Election. On the contrary, there were some EMPHATIC assurances given re National Parks and NO deals with minor parties, and when in Opposition, O’Farrell voted AGAINST selling of electricity assets?

    It’s OK when O”Farrell said he had to deal with the political reality the electorate GAVE him. Oh yes, now it’s OUR fault! We’re responsible for him not having the balance of power in the Legislative Council? Clever isn’t it? And the media allow HIM to get away with it. When Julia Gillard made a similar comment, she was branded as “Bob Brown’s b***h”? How about that for disgraceful behaviour?

    How corrupt is this? Not in the sense you mean perhaps, but corruption nevertheless! Hardly a work from msm. If this was Julia Gillard, she’d be abused, reviled etc as she was over the carbon price scenario, even though she asserted that she wanted to introduce it in her first term – that little fact, that occurred the day after the alleged ‘promise’ has never been spoken of. Libs don’t lie, they do backflips, only Labor lies.

    If you’re really fair dinkum about corruption and wiping it out, I suggest you start with the Murdoch press – a very good place to start! Then, pick holes in the other media outlets, although none are as bad as the Murdoch rags. TV news etc is pretty horrible.

    For instance, last night, I watched Channel 7 news at 6pm. Not ONE word about the Mabo historic High Court decision – the 20th anniversary! I rest my case!

  267. mick j

    Yes Edward James, you have hit the nail on the head. Despite corrupt practices NOTHING ever happens to corrupt councils and NO-ONE is ever prosecuted. Is it any wonder that councils feel bullet proof and simply keep on keeping on. I found it distasteful that Gosford City Council was responsible for the death of 5 people on the Pacific Highway a few years ago but a Claytons investigation which intentionally left out key evidence concluded that council did not have a case to answer. It did but it walked away with blood on its hands. I am informed that the compensation to the families was less than the price of a new kitchen – justice Australian style.

    Whilst O’Farrell might boast that the state government has not taken more than what is being offered to ordinary Australians this belies the fact that his Federal colleagues have just taken a 50% pay rise and you can bet that this will flow on. Also, it needs to be remembered that politicians have been taking a greater rise than the community for several decades. The fact that backbenchers used to earn the same as teachers tells the story. If O’Farrell genuinely wants to reign in costs he should begin with the badly run local government sector with all its corruption and unaccountable conduct. If business managers ran these organisations then the many bludgers who have congregated to the sector would be gone as would be the army of script writers sitting in offices producing propaganda and reports which nobody reads. Is it beginning to sound a bit like a place called Greece. It should.

    The Press has a lot to answer for but then it is owned by business and business supports a particular side of politics, which does its bidding. So do not be surprised that the Labor side of politics has been getting all the attention whilst wrecking ball Tony Abbott has escaped scrutiny. Its not fair, not what this nation was built but its where contemporary Australia is at the moment.

    Oh for some ordinary folk to show a bit of Aussie get up and go…….maybe its got up and went.

  268. Edward James

    Posted Sunday, 3 June 2012 at 2:54 pm | Permalink Are you for real Venise ? That garbage which crikey let “Karen” post after trying to mislead their Crikey subscribers is a long way from an apology! Even by the pretty low national Labor Party standards! I have provided crikey subscribers access to over thirty pages of information which I have published in our local Central Coast newspapers The Peninsula News and Gosford Central Community News. The existence of these often published allegations involving the alleged wrongful deaths of five people, naming names and identifying allegations. Calls into question the personal values of our local elected representatives and those at the State level in NSW Parliament. What I have often published also calls into question the motives of those voters who insist on keeping these dead wood grubs sucking the life blood from Australian taxpayers ! Edward James 02 43419140

  269. Venise Alstergren

    EDWARD JAMES: It’s just that I felt Karen is relatively new on comments and I wanted to encourage her.

    In no way was I accusing you of anything devious. You are obviously a well experienced writer who, and I think you told me this, have your own blog as well as being a presence at Crikey. Given the huge amount of posts you must have to read, I merely thought you couldn’t be blamed if you didn’t read all the comments. I know that I sometimes have the same problem .

    Do you have to be so hostile? I must say it makes for heavy going when people become so touchy.

  270. Edward James

    @ VENISE ALSTERGREN Posted Monday, 4 June 2012 at 7:58 pm | Permalink I used to often publish a link on my Crikey post to where people could visit and read the full page ads I had published after the penny dropped for me, emailing politicians went nowhere. Other voters needed to read about what our politicians are ignoring! Perhaps after almost twelve years I have morphed into a grumpy hostile old man, you have reminded me I should not let the process turn me into something to be despised! I try to read all the comments on the strings where I post because I am searching for other activist who have first hand experience with misgovernance, those people who have experienced it first hand and already doing a bit more than writing comments! Perhaps I have passed my use by date? Never the less I intend to do what little I can to alter the political face of governance in the Gosford Local Government Area. Edward James

  271. Liz45

    An interesting update on the ABC AM program this morning adds another dimension to this issue. Apparently the sex worker allegedly involved gave an interview via Ch 9 that she was the one who had s*x with Craig Thomson, then she went on ch 7 and recanted. Apparently she watched the presentation of CT in Parliament and decided that her memory may not be that reliable – she also felt sorry for him!

    Have a listen to the interview. The Opposition has slackened its hold on this story. Perhaps there’s too many ‘side people’ whose stories and/or involvement is being questioned. For instance, why did the 2OIC of FWA write to the police, on behalf of Kathy Jackson – he was/still is her partner? Then he whined that he’s being defamed? Interesting since he must’ve known that this fact would eventually emerge.

    Today on the morning ABC News and AM was the issue of AWB and how one member of the Fed Police was allegedly offered a bribe to stop investigating? Fancy that? A fuller interview will be aired on tonight’s 7.30? Not to miss!

  272. MrVerily

    @Lamerton Margaret
    You continually defend the indefensible.
    They lied blatantly about every major policy they implemented.
    You defend scum like Gillard and Thompson who steal workers money
    and spend it on their own selfish needs.
    They have put our economy in the toilet, with the only thing
    keeping us a float at the moment is the knowledge that the vast
    majority of Australians don’t support them and therefore their days are numbered.

    If it was known that Labor had a chance of winning the next election most of the 450 billion dollars investment planned for the mining industry would disappear tomorrow.
    Large parts of this have been put on hold or delayed already just so businesses can be sure the evil doers are gone before they invest.

    This should be our time to shine instead the Labor scum are destroying us.

    More than 100,000 plus lazy no good new public servants added and large numbers to follow with the money wasting greens initiatives.
    More then 5000 more in medicare in Canberra, pity the average person can’t get a hospital bed though.
    Australia is now in debt over 230 Billion dollars and rising.
    Forget about the Carbon Tax these guys borrowed and pissed away over 10 Billion in two weeks in January this year alone.

    As soon as they were aware of Slippers sexual harassment suit they went to work defending him.

    The only thing Gillard and who cronies care about are themselves.

    The fact is if there was significant evidence that the Labor front bench was molesting and killing kids the same Labor scum would come out of the wood work to defend them. These people like you are the worst of the worst.

  273. Liz45

    Total and absolute nonsense!

    The investments in this country in recent times has been enormous – there’s been billions invested in infrastructure etc.

    The Libs are so concerned that the economy will go down the toilet after the carbon price, that even they are investing in coal? Haven’t you heard that Gina wants over 7,000 people for a multi billion dollar project? So much for her worrying about Labor.

    Here’s a person with $29 BILLION and is whining about paying a decent share for the resources that belong to all of us? That’s where you should focus your anger mate!

    The Howard Govt had the largest govt in Australian history. Go to Lindsay Tanner’s speech at the National Press Club prior to the ’07 Federal Election.

    I don’t know where you’re getting your info from, but it’s total bs?

    IF the Howard Govt had NOT let the infrastructure, health/hospitals/doctors get worse and worse, the current Govt wouldn’t have had to spend so much. The reason why there’s a doctor shortage is due to the lack of places allocated in the nations Unis under Howard! The same thing happened to plumbers and electricians, and others.

    I recall local Union’s concerns 15+ years ago.

    You can shoot your mouth off and make assertions/accusations, but you need to produce some facts. Any idiot can mouth rubbish – and that’s what you’re doing.

    Didn’t you hear the figures mentioned yesterday re the economic health of the country? I suppose that’s part of the grand conspiracy too! All these people, many who worked in the same jobs under Howard, without him denigrating them or their information, but now they’re scum? Truly!

    You’d be better served by being honest up front, and saying you’re NOT a Labor supporter; never have been, never will! That would be honest at least!

    And while you’re referring to people as “scum” you should watch 7.30 (Thursday evening, ABC ) re AWB? Who were the “government officials” who knew what was going on? When will there be another inquiry, where Howard, Downer and Mark Vale have to give evidence under oath? Interesting?

    Prior to the ’07 Election, Howard had 9 extra people employed in a senior Coalition Senator’s Office, even though he didn’t have a Ministry etc. Why, I hear you ask? To work on his re-election? Nine of them?

    Incidentally, if you looked across the spending across the nation in two weeks, it probably amounts to a lot of dollars. 85 million per day is being spent on Defence over the next 4 years for instance? How about that figure?When you add health, education and Centrelink payments to the mix, it’s easy to see several billion going out each month?

  274. MrVerily

    First of all we are not talking about normal government spending.
    We are talking about your dickhead mates issuing Government Bonds{Borrowing Extra Money to pay dick head lazy no good Public Servants to vote for them.}

    This is the soul reason why the numbers have increased so dramatically.
    This is why we are approaching 250 Billion Dollars in debt.

    These are government figures, you can obtain them from the government where they have large number of these lazy good for nothings like you, publishing this information freely.

    It is absolutely correct that they blew over $10 Billion {extra money} {borrowed money} in two weeks in January. This is nothing to do with their budget. They do what they have always done borrow money and then piss it away by giving to those who least deserve it.

    Half our stock market where Aussie workers have their compulsory super spent is resource stocks. If you look at the average decrease in values over the time Gillard & her lying mates have been in power and came to the conclusion that these guys are doing well, you would have to have spent a little to much time with Craig Thompson on one of his late night sex exploits with the workers union levy’s.

    What could easily happen is what happened at the end of the last mining boom in the early ninety’s, that is it just ends.
    Unions who are currently actively engaged in destroying their own workers industries will do just a little to much damage like they did with the BHP coal mining Queensland.

    It is only because everybody knows Labor is on its last leg that the mining companies are still holding on. It is clear at the current rate of Taxation and with the current IR laws it is far to expensive to invest in Australia.

    They put off the go ahead for Olympic Dam project as long as they could, they have even started talking about ending the BHP port extension at Port Headland.

    What would happen is, if Labor were to freakishly win the next election, our mining boom would coming to an end. We are just no match for our competitors
    like Canada with its %15 company tax, no carbon or mining tax and much more practical IR laws.
    If this does happen what will all the 100’s of thousands of immigrants Labor has brought in to cope with the mining boom do? What will happen to the property prices once unemployment takes off?
    Our country is so near to falling off a cliff into economic and social destruction its not funny.

    Sorry but Gina is not the Libs, all the Polls consistently show the majority of Aussies support the Liberals. So when you talk about the Liberals remember they are the representatives of the majority of the Australian people.

    In Rob Oakshots electorate of Lyne the Polls consistently show that 86% plus of his electorate don’t support him. The fact is these lying Labor scum do not have any credibility what so ever and are a completely illegitimate government full of liars and criminals from Gillard all the way down to Thompson{which is not very far}.

    Remember you support these lying scum bags.
    You support them when they steal low paid workers money, you support them when they sexually harass people in their work place, you support them when they lie about putting massive taxes on people who can not afford to pay them. All for the sake of employing more useless PS to vote for them. You support them when they try and silence the free press and like the rest of us you know they are completely dishonest. This makes you absolute scum as well!!!

  275. Mike Smith


    In Rob Oakshots electorate of Lyne the Polls consistently show that 86% plus of his electorate don’t support him.

    In the only poll that counted, the last election, the majority of his electorate did support him, either directly or via preferences.

    Perhaps Canada doesn’t have the resources that the mining companies want? Hmm?

    The free press? Are you saying Murdoch and Fairfax are free? Free press, like free beer.

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