Facebook Google Menu Linkedin lock Pinterest Search Twitter

Advertisement

Federal

Feb 23, 2012

Delusion, dysfunction and the true history of Kevin Rudd

The government is obsessed with Kevin Rudd but he is not its problem.

Share

The talking points have been cast aside. The real politics, red in tooth and claw, the savage sort reserved for colleagues rather than partisan opponents, are being undertaken in public, rather than behind closed doors. The time for subtlety, euphemism and obfuscation are over.

But not, it seems, the time for delusion.

We’re now getting the true history of Kevin Rudd from his erstwhile colleagues, people so lavish in their praise of him and so earnest in their support while he was prime minister, who now feel released from whatever bonds of collegiality they may have felt — bonds that seem to have snapped around Simon Crean some time ago. Even Julia Gillard, in what will doubtless be a decision she will eventually rue, decided to open up about her time as his deputy, today discussing the paralysis that gripped his government and her own valiant efforts to remedy things.

We look forward to future revelations about her own time as Prime Minister from former colleagues following her example.

Of course, Wayne Swan has topped everyone and secured whatever awards exist for political spray of the year with an extraordinary, vitriol-laden outburst against his colleague, basically suggesting he shouldn’t be in the party and should never have been in it. Turns out Swan can communicate effectively when he feels like it.

The outpouring of contumely towards Rudd is so great you wonder how on earth anyone in Labor ever tolerated his presence for a moment, let alone allowed him to become leader. And what does it say about Julia Gillard’s judgment that this “dysfunctional”, “demeaning”, “undermining” man has been allowed to hold a senior cabinet position for so long?

Most remarkable, though, was Swan’s claim that “colleagues are sick of Kevin Rudd driving the vote down by sabotaging policy announcements and undermining our substantial economic successes”.

It’s an odd claim to make, that Rudd has been driving the government’s vote down. The key issue that drove the government’s vote down was Gillard’s decision to embrace a carbon price early last year. What’s kept it down has been a succession of misjudgments by the Prime Minister that cancelled out any momentum she ever gained. It wasn’t Rudd who bungled a reshuffle, or performed poorly at the national conference, or who alienated Andrew Wilkie. Rudd didn’t elevate asylum seekers as a totemic issue and then fail to deliver. It wasn’t Rudd who failed to nail Tony Abbott, the biggest policy flake to lead a major party since Alexander Downer, over economic management.

Labor’s problem isn’t Rudd. It’s Gillard and, when it comes to selling the government’s excellent economic record, Swan and Penny Wong. Those problems will remain beyond Monday if Gillard wins. Her media conference this morning — which began in tedium and only livened up when a News Limited journalist was appallingly disrespectful to her — was decidedly short on how she was going to turn around the government’s fortunes.

And it’s a funny parallel but just as with Abbott, the government appears obsessed with Rudd and can’t stop talking about him, but can’t lay a glove on him. Tony Burke declared Rudd’s campaigning for the leadership was “the worst-kept secret in Canberra” (gee minister, I can think of some other things that fit that particular bill). But Swan evinced no evidence of Rudd sabotaging policy announcements or undermining economic success.

Indeed, the search for a “smoking gun” of Rudd’s disloyalty appears to have consumed the government for days. Andrew Wilkie’s comments were seized on by Crean, before Wilkie explained them away. A Rudd ally is said to have spoken to the clubs and pubs about pokies reform and the leadership. And in a moment of high comedy last night, Michael Danby was wheeled on by the ABC to declare that he knew Rudd had backgrounded several unnamed journalists about his ambitions. “Say it isn’t so, Kevin,” Danby pleaded earnestly, like the mythical baseball fan who demanded as much of Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Meantime, Swan has issued a statement saying he wouldn’t be heading to the G20 finance ministers’ meeting in Mexico, a key one following the Greek bailout that will address the role of the IMF in the eurozone crisis. And, of course, Rudd himself has walked out halfway through a series of important international meetings.

For all Abbott’s many and large flaws, he’s dead right when he says the government is dysfunctional and falling to pieces.

Advertisement

We recommend

From around the web

Powered by Taboola

242 comments

Leave a comment

242 thoughts on “Delusion, dysfunction and the true history of Kevin Rudd

  1. Venise Alstergren

    SBH: For Chrïst’s sake where did you learn to spell; kindergarten?

  2. SBH

    Oh Patriot, poor luv. I didn’t think you were going to waste another second.
    fish in a barrell

  3. Venise Alstergren

    When will you lot realise that Kevin Rudd is a viper?

  4. Patriot

    SBH

    “You’re the one who raised Howard”

    Sorry, but I just couldn’t resist pulling you up on that final effort. It really demonstrates very succinctly what a stupid, blinkered fool you are. Guytaur raised Howard’s position on the GST and made the comparison with the carbon tax. He invited other commenters to identify the difference between the two.

  5. SBH

    ‘Idiot’, ‘fool’, ‘you reek’ etc

    How quickly you descend when pushed comrade.

    You’re the one who raised Howard, not my prob if you made a poor comparison but I’ll leave it up to the readers to decide.

  6. Patriot

    SBH,

    Guytaur said;

    “Nothing you say about what happened after changes this basic fact.
    Howard broke that promise
    .

    I said in response to that;

    “The breaking of the “promise” is not the fundamental issue. The act of denying voters the opportunity to cast their verdict on the change is the issue.

    You understand the concept on context. You also understand that every government passes more legislation than they can possibly predict and outline prior to forming government. It doesn’t amount to lyіng unless it has been explicitly ruled out as the carbon tax was by Gillard. Was the Pink Batts policy a lіe? I never heard Pink Batts mentioned during an election campaign. What about the stimulus cheques? A lіe? Alcopop tax. A lіe? On all counts the answer is no. You know that and you also know that there was nothing dishonest about John Howard’s IR reforms. You’re just being a desperate, dishonest idiot.

    Feel free to carry on as long as want after this reply. You are a fool and aren’t worth another second of my Sunday.

  7. SBH

    Low and dishonest? out of context? They were your words. If you can’t make a point, you can’t blame me for quoting your own junk back at you. Although you can add a set of words post facto and pretend they were always there.

    Now speaking about out of context, you show me where during any election campaign Howard promised to strip the IRC and the award system of essential powers and protections that had been in place for 100 years and replace it with Work Choices. And further how about Howard’s 2005 claim (well let’s not be coy, deliberate l!e) that ‘no worker will be worse off’ under Work Choices’. Sneaky before the event, dishonest after it.

  8. Patriot

    SBH,

    “The breaking of the “promise” is not the fundamental issue.” Well, gee that’s a hell of a way to run the place why bother promising in the first place?

    It was not the fundamental issue in the context of a comparison between the GST and the carbon tax. Pretty low and dishonest of you to drag it out of that context and apply it to everything, but I’m coming to expect that sort of thing from you.

    Show me where John Howard promised during the 2004 election campaign not to touch IR law.

  9. Suzanne Blake

    @ Owen Gary

    Votes have seen the damage the Greens have on politics, legislation and the economy and they will be very careful where they preference at the next election in the lower house.

    In the Senate, I expect to see a move away from Labor and Greens to the LNP with a small percentage and to people like Xenaphon and the like.

    The last think we need is the US system, what an expensive farce ther system is.

  10. Owen Gary

    I would not be surprised to see this used for an early election as well, but the vote of no confidence could only come if Rudd gets in & he reneges on the “carbon pricing” scheme.

    when you also consider Shorten is (Sil) son in law to the “Governor General” what another can of worms, because this would mean “Short-On” morals Shorton would be next in line to the throne, because he will end up as Kevs deputy. This would force the GG to use her powers.

    Maybe I am getting ahead of myself here but this all could be a precurser to try & dump the Westminster System in favour of the American style of governance down the track. Once that happens we are all doomed.

    Wow what a movie this would make!!!

    2 major parties colluding to stitch up the Greens. It has already happened when Eric Slipper crossed the floor to the Labor Party “to stitch up Andrew Wilkies Pokies reform”

    Where does this corruption end???

    Vote Greens people the major parties were bought out long ago!!

  11. Owen Gary

    OK Guys its all a massive Ruse,

    Well engineered again by the Labor Right & the Mining & Energy Sector.

    Rudd tips Gillard & introduces an ETS after dumping the (carbon pricing scheme) a short time later. A lot of swinging voters return to Rudd, Abbott is now doomed so he is tipped by Turnbull who loved this farsical ETS scheme in which we the Australians at large will end up paying for.

    WE ARE TO BE STITCHED UP AGAIN, They are trying to kill the renewable energy sector guys. How about that for a conspiracy???

    We shall see as it will all start 10.00am monday morning!!!

  12. SBH

    Patriot, I know it’s hard for you to keep up cause you think in bellicose slogans like most of those hiding behind the flag but try at least to keep up with what you, yourself post.

    “The breaking of the “promise” is not the fundamental issue.” Well, gee that’s a hell of a way to run the place why bother promising in the first place?

    but seeing as that’s your standard….
    ” The act of denying voters the opportunity to cast their verdict on the change is the issue.” OK we’re clear, you can lie to the voters but you have to give them the chance to cast their verdict on the change. So that’s the ‘distinction’ you, Patriot make

    Now about work choices:
    “You’re really struggling with the distinction aren’t you? Howard gave voters the power to judge his actions and end his government.” No he didn’t. He l!ed about the GST and he brought in Work Choices without any discussion with the voters. It was never a part of his campaign or party platform he just rammed it through.

    The voters will get the same chance to vote on the carbon tax as they did on Work Choices. The difference is that Howard had complete control of the government and the senate and that situation was not changed by the election. Gillard had to deal with a coalition of disparate positions in order to form a government. Equating the two is either dumb or dishonest. The other difference (in my view) is that Julia Gillard won’t go down in history as a lying rodent.

  13. Gilly from St Arnaud

    Why cant our political parties use headhunting firms to choose leaders based on real experience and ability to manage performance guidelines. Why cant we use Headhunting firms to carry out Pyschological and mental health assessments so we dont potentially end up with Psychopath?

    Listerning to all the rants against Kevin Rudd does reveal an undelying level of deceit throughout the Labor Party at this stage, where statements of support in one week are renounced as lies the next. We cant trust Julias policy promises and now we cant trust hers and her cabinets public support statements about their colleges characters.

    What are the public to rely on now when they wish to vote on a certainty? I can see an opening for the betting agencies to do deals with the faceless men to stack their bets.lol

  14. guytaur

    Julia Gillard will still be Prime Minister on Tuesday.

    Too bad for the conservatives making mischief voting for Rudd in opinion polls.

  15. Patriot

    Well that has been more than enough cheese for one evening. It’s enough to give a guy a headache.

  16. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    Whoa! Good one! You must have used up a lot of brainpower on that one!

    As I said, you are pathetic.

  17. Patriot

    I just explained the difference and its significance. And it’s not my argument. It’s your argument. You’re well and truly past your best before date, cheese. You reek!

  18. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “You misquoted me, too”

    LOL! You really need to go to bed… you’re argument is so without merit, you’re resorting to semantics now? You are pathetic.

    I guess you’ve never heard of paraphrasing?

    I was merely using your ridiculous statement to point out how stupid your argument is.

  19. Patriot

    You misquoted me, too. Naughty, naughty! I said headline, not story. There is an important difference. The headline is their creation. The story contains quotes by Gillard.

  20. Patriot

    You’re the one that recognises their authority. I was just reminding you of your own position. Hate to see you contradicting yourself.

  21. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “The Australian says we will, cheesy. It is unequivocal”

    Listen to yourself, but – arguing from the authority of a story in The Australian. LOL.

    You are on a ROLL!!!

  22. Patriot

    The Australian says we will, cheesy. It is unequivocal.

  23. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    No we won’t.

  24. Patriot

    Couldn’t understand your point about WorkChoices, SBH. What are you on about, man? Glad I cleared up your confusion about dishonest campaigning.

  25. Patriot

    We will in July.

  26. SBH

    Sorry Patriot, you left out work choices, please explain?

    I haven’t any trouble with the distinction but you won’t address the question

  27. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “In the article she said “I rule out a carbon tax”. You don’t think that amounts to a pledge to not have a carbon tax?”

    We don’t have a carbon tax.

  28. Patriot

    Listen to yourself, but – arguing from the authority of a headline in The Australian. LOL.

  29. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “Nice slur on people with mental dіsability there,”

    In no way did I slur people with mental disabilities… I very specifically slurred retards like you.

  30. Patriot

    In the article she said “I rule out a carbon tax”. You don’t think that amounts to a pledge to not have a carbon tax?

  31. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “I think you just misinterpreted the title of the article”

    Sorry son, would you like to try door number 3?

    The title of the article is “Julia Gillard’s Carbon Price Promise”, not “Julia Gillard’s Carbon TAX Promise”.

    The only mention she makes of a carbon PRICE, is that she wouldn’t rule out the possibility, and that if she wins, she will view it as a mandate… which is the PROMISE the headline is referring to.

    Not having a very good day/evening are you?

    Maybe you should go sleep it off and have another go tomorrow, eh diddums? LOL!

  32. Patriot

    Nice slur on people with mental dіsability there, Cheesy. Bob Brown would have you sent to a re-education labour camp to make biodegradable bongs and syringes for his injecting rooms for a hate crime like that.

  33. Patriot

    You’re failing to understand the distinction between a fixed price- which she ruled out numerous times – and market-based pricing.

  34. Patriot

    Cheesy

    We have a market based carbon price? Dаmn! I gotta run down the shop and get me some carbon credits, pronto! We are going to have a fixed carbon tax set by the government. Markets are not involved in any way in setting the price. She ruled that out during the campaign.

  35. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step”

    That is also unequivocal. The fact that so many voters left Labor and voted for the Greens is compelling evidence that the community wanted a carbon price.

    You really have no clue do you?

  36. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “On market-based carbon pricing, she said only “I don’t rule out the possibility”.”

    So, what you are saying then, is that when voters went to the polls, they knew that a market based carbon price was a possibility. Which is what we have now.

    How is that in any way misleading?

    For normal people I mean, not for retards like you.

  37. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    I guess there’s no telling you eh? You’re happy to live in your own little world makin sh!t up and flushing it all out on this board.

    It’s a carbon price, not a tax. It begins with a fixed price period, transitioning to a full market based scheme in a few years.

    Businesses asked for a fixed price period so they could put in place the systems they need, and so they wouldn’t be caught out by wild market fluctuations early in the scheme.

    There, that’s not too difficult for your widdle bwainy to comprehend is it?

    Now if you want to know what a tax looks like, take a look Abbott’s putrescent pile of excrement, “Direct Action”. That will tax you directly (maybe not you cuz I doubt you are gainfully employed, except perhaps as a Lib sock puppet), and give the proceeds to businesses that are already making billions of dollars profit each year. I guess you think in your widdle world that’s entirely fair. LOL! Moron!

  38. Patriot

    Cheesy,

    The only statement by Gillard regarding carbon pricing in that article that could be interpreted as a promise is her statement about ruling out a carbon tax – “I rule out a carbon tax”. On market-based carbon pricing, she said only “I don’t rule out the possibility”. I think you just misinterpreted the title of the article, which could be characterised as hyperbole – or hyper-bowl if you’re a Gillard fan.

  39. Arnold Cheeseman

    @Suzanne Blake

    Who asked for your opinion. You know nothing, won’t believe it when it is written in plain English in one of your own rags, and can’t ever back up anything you say.

    So please keep your drivel to yourself.

  40. floopmeister

    Why is it every political blog’s comment thread always a has conservative calling himself ‘Patriot’?

    ‘Real Patriot’, or ‘True Patriot’, or ‘Aussie patriot’, or whatever.

    But always ‘Patriot’.

    It’s as predictable as the obligatory corny Australian flag icon.

  41. Karen

    @ A_Swann and Mike Flanagan, Thanks and an interesting piece of information about Keane’s association with Hartcher and Coorey. That explains a lot.

  42. Patriot

    SBH,

    Obviously the distinction escapes you. Let me help you understand.

    Tony Abbott’s policy on emission abatement is Direct Action. Now suppose, after campaigning with that policy, he wins the next election and says that he has changed his mind and will take no action on so-called AGW. Your response will be:

    a)That is dishonest and wrong. He has won the election on false pretences. He has lost credibility and legitimacy as a head of government.

    or

    b) That’s is absolutely fine. Nobody has any right to complain about his honesty, integrity or legitimacy. He won the election and can now do as he pleases.

    You’ve chosen option b) for Gillard. You obviously have a pretty relaxed attitude to dishonest campaigining.That’s you prerogative, but I think it’s a very unusual position to take. If the polling after she announced the tax is an indication, most people take it very seriously.

  43. Patriot

    @Suzanne Blake

    Cheeseperson is still smarting from last week when he was caught out not being able to read a table listing the number of government employees. Now he’s caught out failing to understand the difference between a market-based carbon price – of which Gillard says in that article “I don’t rule out the possibility”, rather than promising it – and a non-market carbon tax, which is what she is hitting us with. To say she would introduce a carbon price was not to say she would introduce a carbon tax. Indeed, she explicitly ruled out the latter. I don’t think we need either.

  44. Suzanne Blake

    @ Swiss Cheeseman

    “Gillard broke a promise that won her an election.� No she didn�t”

    Of course she did, its in High Definition video from ly ing Gillard and incompetent Swan.

    That is why over 80% of Australians say she li ed and why her poll numbers are terrible.

    Your theory has more holes than Swiss Cheese.

  45. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “Gillard broke a promise that won her an election.” No she didn’t.

    I’m not cetain if you are able to read… it seems likely that your tiny brain is incapable of the comprehension of FACTS, but I do believe the headline in this article in The “Australian” dated August 20, 2010 says:

    “Julia Gillard’s Carbon Price Promise” Note the use of the word “PROMISE”.

    And I’m sure when you go to read the article you will no doubt be expecting it to say that the PM would not introduce a carbon price.

    But wait! What’s this??

    “JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.

    It will be part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing.”

    How dare those dirty commie b*stards at The “Australian” print such truth!

    Sorry if this is a duplicate… my last post is stuck in moderation for some reason (it had a link to the story in it.)

  46. Suzanne Blake

    @ Mike Flanagan

    The only pro Gillard media I have seen is that reported from 7 News. Forgotton his name, gave it away at Press Club last year with the Dorathy Dixer

    Then a host of ABC journalists. Even Laura Tingle has woken up.

  47. Arnold Cheeseman

    @PATRIDIOT

    “Gillard broke a promise that won her an election.” No she didn’t.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

    I’m not cetain if you are able to read… it seems likely that your tiny brain is incapable of the comprehension of FACTS, but I do believe the headline in this article in The “Australian” says:

    “Julia Gillard’s Carbon Price Promise” Note the use of the word “PROMISE”.

    And I’m sure when you go to read the article you will no doubt be expecting it to say that the PM would not introduce a carbon tax.

    But wait! What’s this??

    ” JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.

    It will be part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing.”

    How dare those dirty commie b*stards at The “Australian” print such truth!

  48. Mike Flanagan

    Well said Karen.
    Bernard’s record has been stuck and on repetitive replay since his first bottle of red with Dennis Shanahan. Now I notice hime cavorting with Harcher and Coorey, two well established anti Gillard members of innocuous news clique.

  49. Davoe Magpie

    @cairns50 thanks for putting very eloquently into words my thoughts as well as yours.
    Ms Gillard will win on Monday, hopefully Mr Rudd can accept it this time, go to the back bench and wait till he is drafted if ever. He has said if he loses he will not re contest.
    Then we have 18 months to get our strategy going to beat Mr Abbott (the most frightening conservative I’ve ever had to contemplate gaining power)
    The Australian electorate has short memory in general. Doe anyone remember the disarray of the coalition during the Godwin Grech saga? They were gone for all money and yet 6 months later they nearly won an election.
    The Labor members will have to be totally committed and work as one, but I’m sure they can bring the swinging voters around to realising what a reactionary locked in the past man Mr Abbott really is.

  50. a_swann

    @ michael r james, @Karen

    tip my hat to you both, for your clear-eyed insight and opinion

    i wish i could read an article in the papers, or on crikey, that was in that timbre

  51. guytaur

    I liked Rob Oakshott reminding the media there is another party and possible leader change.
    “I will negotiate with Malcolm Turnbull”
    Had a good laugh.

  52. Billy Blogs

    This article and comments are hilarious given the staunch defence this site gave to Rudd and the ALP through their 1.5 terms.

  53. Karen

    @ Bernard Keane – I cannot believe this article. You talk about Gillard being the problem over the pettiest of issues, like her reshuffle (what for getting rid of that average Kim Carr to tackle manufacturing, which happens to be his forte), not acknowledging Rudd at the ALP conference (err, now we know why), abandoning Wilkie (when there was no support in the parliament and, alright, she had a problem with shoring up political support in the marginals where the Clubs reign supreme). Oh that boat issue – big deal – we’ve actually got a good outcome – we’ve reverted back to what we had before Keating, which worked perfectly well, legally and appropriately.

    Read this slowly, she has passed 269 pieces of legislation over the last 12 months or so (even the Daily Telegraph’s political editors have tipped their hat to the woman over this), which surpasses all her male predecessors. Isn’t that her job? Oh, and to allow ministers to get on with their job without micromanaging their portfolios and kicking them down. Yes, she can actually run a govt and negotiate with the independents. Frankly, Gillard is a genius for being able to do all this, in the face of a difficult parliament and appalling and overwhelming press hostility.

    Finally, Rudd didn’t run the govt, Gillard did this when the fractured egg was off on his overseas junkets, which was most of the time. How many junkets has Gillard gone to? Yes, of course, hardly any, because of the pressing domestic agenda and the appalling politics the press gallery has engaged in against her.

    You really a sick bunch.

    You really don’t let up do you – you will not stop until you destroy her, politically. You talk about Wong and Swan not selling the achievements, well how can they when you don’t advertise the fact and are too busy beating up on Julia.

    All of you press-gallery orcs are a disgrace, just appalling.

  54. SBH

    Patriot@ 11.26 Sorry, did I miss something or did Julia Gillard win an election and form the current government? Further, does not the smooth operation of a universal suffrage election which results in the formation of a government on the floor of the house of reps and sworn in by the governor general qualify as the act of giving voters the opportunity to cast their verdict on the change? You’re right, the distinction escapes me.

    As for giving voters a choice how about ‘Work Choices’? You may struggle to find any reference to that one in the Libs’ election platform. Lucky the breaking of a promise isn’t a fundamental issue for you.

  55. guytaur

    @ Peter Ormonde

    Yeah I know. You can see by the leave in a huff when you use their own tactics agaist them.
    They have no real staying power. You hould see the anti Obama brigade on the USA TODAY website. Those idiots have real staying power.

  56. Peter Ormonde

    Mr Taur,

    Might I suggest a different approach. All excellent points . But there is no point in engaging in an argument WITH the likes of Patriot. Not interested. Another foil hatter. Actually I reckon it’s the same foil hatter in a different hat. … from Troofie’s foil footie beanie to Pariot’s foil akubra with corks. I suspect Sooz wears a cute foil pill-box number like Kate Hepburn’s. Possibly foil curlers.

    He/she/it will not listen. … too busy listening to other things. Patriot will not – cannot – understand or change. Everything else must change.

    Talk to us out here who are reading. Not just dot points. Explain why he/she/it is wrong – not to he/she/it – to those willing to listen. We might learn something.

  57. Patriot

    “Ok then here is another.”

    “Those are my principles and if you don’t like them…well, I have others”. I have to go to work. Another time.

  58. SBH

    you know Blake, you should read more. Then you might understand the reference.

  59. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Ok then here is another.
    Mr Howard did not state he was going to go to war.
    He went anyway. When all the polls and indeed protestors on the street said otherwise.
    That was a decision costing lives unlike the GST and so called Carbon Tax.

  60. guytaur

    Rudd announcing plans @ 13:30.

  61. Patriot

    Guytaur,

    The breaking of the “promise” is not the fundamental issue. The act of denying voters the opportunity to cast their verdict on the change is the issue. You’re really struggling with the distinction aren’t you? Howard gave voters the power to judge his actions and end his government. Gillard did not.

  62. Peter Ormonde

    Blue pills, Patriot.

    So the Australian Prime Minister – the elected leader of the wide white land you claim to love – is an “operative” eh? An “agent of influence”? A carmewnist.

    Excellent. Something else about this country you hate.

    Riddled with subversion, conspiracies, plots, operatives – everywhere … in the bushes, with the Greens …even right to the top. I interviewed a little known Tasmanian called Bob Brown … there you go, proof positive.

    And have you seen how the price of good Australian aluminium foil has skyrocketed since the Chinese started into the business. Aaargh the messages… the secrets I know…the plots…. Open your eyes people…

    Not so much a patriot – you actually hate the place and what it has become – as an old testament prophet.

    If you lean over and ask Sooz, she’ll lend you some of her first stones to throw. Being anonymous I don’t reckon you’ve got any of your own.

  63. Jimmy

    Patriot – “change their policy position so radically” This is where the likes of you are so wrong, Gillard went to the last election with a policy position to put a price on carbon, if you didn’t know that you are the idiot. The change to a “carbon tax” is not radical as the effect is essentially the same and technically speaking it is not even a tax, it is a fixed priced period of an ETS. Name a tax where you get given an asset you can on trade in return for your tax payment.

    She changed her mind due to changed circumstance, and even if it was a l.i.e how is it different to howards “non core promises” Abbott’s rolled gold guarantee on a myriad of other examples.

  64. Patriot

    Carbon Tax wealth redistribution – socialism on massive scale
    Mining tax – ditto

    She is a socialist at the very least, if not a Red.

  65. Plane

    Still no announcement by Kevin Rudd that he will contest the leadership

  66. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Howard said never ever.
    Nothing you say about what happened after changes this basic fact.
    Howard broke that promise.

  67. Patriot

    “I have not gone out and said never ever.”

    So you’re still open to the possibility of the Easter Bunny existing. Perhaps the Tooth Fairy also. Idiot!

  68. guytaur

    @Patriot

    She says that was the folly of youth and claims this is not so today
    The actions of her Government confirm this.
    You have to mount a credible case with proof of facts from today.

    As you have just pointed out. Circumstances and people change.

  69. Patriot

    “You are arguing against yourself here and making Guytaur’s point for him, people change their mind when faced with a change in circumstance, that is not the same as a l.i.e!”

    No, idiot. I’m arguing that changing of one mind per se is perfectly acceptable. What is unacceptable is for a head of government to change their policy position so radically and deny voters the opportunity to vote on the new position. Howard did the former, Gillard the latter.

  70. guytaur

    @Patriot

    I have not gone out and said never ever.

    For a politician that is truly moronic.

  71. Patriot

    Guytaur,

    It is a fact that she was(is?) an operative for the Socialist Forum and prepared plans for infiltrating and subverting our Parliament. She has admitted it numerous times but once again, as in the case of the leadership challenge, you have your fingers in your ears – LALALALALA – no challenge here, no communists, nothing to see, people. Just a big media beat-up. Moving forward!

  72. Peter Ormonde

    Patriot,

    Bit off-topic this – or maybe not.

    I’ve never been a big fan of unions per se… I regard the modern unions as the provisional wing of the bosses’ HR departments most of the time. Like Bob Hawke, the great negotiator and settler of disputes. If a boss had a problem, Bob would come in, stitch up a deal and the problem would be “solved”. Business as usual. The unions were equally responsible for the hell of BHP’s coke ovens.

    That’s not to say there haven’t been exceptions – truly great organisations and individuals – the NSW BLF, the international support often provided by the wharfies, miners, supporting Aboriginal rights – people I knew…great Australians. But by and large unions just negotiate a price for labour – and this is not enough. People are bigger than that. Who looks after those things? Governments?

    Australian unions have a proud history but for the great part constrained within the system, to a narrow set of issues – dollars and hours. In the modern era – with the rise of mega unions – most authentic “organic” workers’ leaders have disappeared. They have become managers of Labour. Administrators of superannuation funds. Lawyers. Erk. And by and large they make crap politicians. No sense of smell. No sense of a crowd. No local phone numbers.

    Re your earlier posting regarding the means of production, I’d like to ask you a question: When we Australians are all rich – when we all own our own means of production or someone else’s – who makes the steel, who builds the ships, who gets buried in cave-ins or construction site collapses? Who does the work? Who gets dirty? Who makes us the money?

    China has become the world’s factory – it’s people the world’s proletariat. We have essentially exported our working class. We also export – or contract out – the miseries of our resource hunger … to Nigeria, to Brazil, and the Philippines. Our conserved forests too often meant the clear felling of Fiji, PNG, Indonesia…

    Not everyone can be rich. We can obviously become better off materially and we can mechanise ourselves and eliminate from view much of the ugliness of industrial production. But like clean-factoried Sweden, with its arms industry and Mr Nobel’s invention, we export it. It is not eliminated.

    And it is unsustainable, immoral and, in the end, deeply unsatisfying.

    In short, we are only so rich because we have made others more poor.

  73. Jimmy

    Guytaur – SB isn’t far right, she isn’t anything except a whinger, she doesn’t know what she wants from her govt she just knows that she doesn’t want “waste”. In short she is a fool.

    Patriot “You’ve obviously never changed you mind about anything then and believe it to be unacceptable” You are arguing against yourself here and making Guytaur’s point for him, people change their mind when faced with a change in circumstance, that is not the same as a l.i.e!

  74. Patriot

    Guytaur

    You’ve obviously never changed you mind about anything then and believe it to be unacceptable. You still believe in Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny then. Stop wasting my time, moron.

  75. Jimmy

    Guytaur – An Election in which Howard lost the popular vote, so was his a illegitimate govt built on a l.i.e?

  76. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Only in you fevered imagination.
    She leads a government of the right. At the same political space as Malolm Frasres Government.

    @SB.

    You are far right. To you the Centre is left.

  77. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Changing the policy position was the breaking of the promise. He then went to an election having broken that promise.
    Dores not change he broke the promise. Never Ever means just that.

  78. Jimmy

    SB – Still no answer to my questions, are you really that cowardly or do you know Abbott’s policies can’t be defended?

  79. Patriot

    Guytaur,

    Being an operative for the Socialist Forum and drawing up plans to infiltrate and subvert the ALP makes her a communist.

  80. Patriot

    Guytaur

    You’re an idiot. Howard changed his policy position. Gillard broke a promise that won her an election. There is a world of difference. If Gillard had changed her policy position an then taken it to an election before making it law I would have had no objection to her actions. She would have been voted out.

  81. Suzanne Blake

    @ Guytaur

    “Centre Left is where the Greens Re.
    Extreme Left is where the Socialist Alliance and their communist buddies are.”

    Your joking

    Extreme Left is where the Greens reside
    Centre Left is where Labor is.

    Even Labor Ministers call them Extreme Greens. Their own coalition partner!!

    Labor getting squeezed at both ends.

  82. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Malcolm Fraser led a Centre Right Government.

  83. Jimmy

    HOw about Abbott’s rolled gold guarantee? How about Hawkes no child will be living in poverty?

  84. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Red Hair does not make Gillard a communist. She leads a right wing government.
    It only looks left to those o the right of it.
    Centre Left is where the Greens Re.
    Extreme Left is where the Socialist Alliance and their communist buddies are.

  85. guytaur

    @Patriot.

    Does not count. He said Never Ever. Not never until the next election.

  86. guytaur

    If Labor had been in Power instead of Howard would Australia have a world leading solar energy industry?
    We will never know if that is an opportunity cost of Coalition Government.

  87. Patriot

    Guytaur,

    Howard announced his change of position on the GST before giving people the opportunity to vote on whether to allow his government to implement it. That’s what Gillard, the lyіng commie lіar, should have done with her carbon tax.

  88. Jimmy

    SB – You didn’t answer my questions, how are the policies you plan to vote for good for the economy and society as a whole?

    I want you to own your vote, I don’t want you whinging in 2 years time about how terrible the Abbott govt is I want you to say right now why the policies he espouses are getting your vote!

  89. guytaur

    You know Rudd is desperate. He has dragged out “UnAustralian”

  90. klewso

    Johnfromearth- that’s the trouble with “living with journalists”.

  91. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    The tax cuts associated with carbon tax, the handout to various NFP’s and Associations etc is a bribe to pacify people on a terrible outcome to Australia.

    The 10% of carbon tax collected that goes to the UN is a joke.

  92. guytaur

    @SB

    Never Ever GST
    No Carbon Tax Under a Government I Lead.

    Pick the difference.

  93. Jimmy

    SB – So you aren’t happy with the effect the carbon tax will have on the economy (despite the vast majority of economists supporting it) and the waste but are happy to vote for “direct action” which is acknowledeged as more wasteful? And how does removing massive amounts of govt revenue by cancelling the carbon tax but keeping the tax cuts asscoiated with them and increasing govt spending through direct action and increasing the pension and FTB good for the economy?
    How is increasing the company tax rate to pay for paid paretal leave for the rich good for the economy?
    How is increasing the tax burden on small business by giving mining companies a tax break good for the economy?
    How is increasing the super guarantee without the corresponding tax cuts good for small business?

    Is that really worth a “punt”? Is that really managing the countires finances?

  94. guytaur

    @SB

    Yes the LNP can be worse than the greens. They are quite willing to trash the environment to make money.
    Damage that cannot be undone.

  95. guytaur

    @SB

    Labor has gone to several election as has the Oalition promising to Price Carbon. As did serial liar John Howard.

    The never ever GST
    no Carbon Tax under. ZGovernment I lead.

    Peas in a pod.

  96. guytaur

    For those of you that think we have Presidential system like the US. Even they have. Vice President ready to step into the role id the President becomes unble to compently execute the office for whatever reason.
    Jukia Gillard was Deputy Prime Minister. The Caucus judged that Rudd was unable to execute the office. They then appointed the deputy. An echo of the US system.
    This means that dumping Rudd was more in line with US democratic systems than Keating dumping Hawke.
    Get over yourselves. This is how democracy works.

  97. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    Labor has proven again its run by a strong under current, full of li es and spin.

    I don’t like the carbon tax, its impact on Australia and our economy, especially its hit on our compeitiveness. The waste also upsets me.

    Had enough of Labor, happy to punt on the alternative, who have proven they can manage the countries finances. Not happy with Abbott, but I think that will change before the election, regardless I am not voting Labor.

  98. Jimmy

    SB – Why? What policies do you like? How are those policies going to be beneficial to the economy & society as a whole? How are those policies going to be paid for? I have tried to have this conversation with you and your minions numerous times but you choose to ignore it and focus on the negative.

    If you keep voting against things rather than voting for something you are always going to be disappointed with what you get.

  99. mikeb

    Rudd’s performance this morning leads me to think he’s been in the US too long and thinks he’s running for president of OZ. Appealing to the people to “elect me, elect me” rather than elect the party. If he doesn’t win he’ll be like the play-yard sook – knocks over the stumps & takes the bat & ball home.Wait and see – he’ll time his avo press conference just in time for evening news and so not allow JG a reply in time. He’s a sneaky little sob.

    btw – interesting article by Mann today. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/total-candour-was-only-way-to-stop-him-20120223-1tqs9.html

  100. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    The LNP cannot be worse that Labor / Greens

  101. Patriot

    Peter,

    ” Now as to democracy… I don’t think it is democratic that the rich and powerful own our governments. Or do you think that Gina Rinehart gets just the same number of votes that you do, carries the same weight? Power is not just voting for someone (in Suzanne’s case, Craig Trousers Thomson) and riding it out. These people – the owners of your future – exercise power every day and not just in a cardboard booth every three or four years.”

    The unions supposedly represent your poor, suffering proletariat, Peter, and Labor receives more money from them than Liberal does from big business. Labor is the party that has been bought, and it has been bought by the rich, powerful unions. They are the party of big money.

  102. Jimmy

    SB – So in 2007 you voted out Howard with apparently very little thought as to what you are voting in and then were disappointed. No it appears you are voting out Gillard with very little thought of what you are voting in, do you think it will end any better this time?

  103. Suzanne Blake

    @ Peter Ormonde

    Like in 1972 it was time. I was looking forward to the GP Super Centres as a matter of fact. Pity so few have been rolled out 4 years later.

  104. Peter Ormonde

    With which “this and that program” was Labor going to make a difference? What did you think this difference would be?

  105. Suzanne Blake

    @ Peter Ormonde

    As I have said before, I voted Labor in 2007, cause Howard had had enough time and we needed a change. I was convinced Rudd could make a difference, with this and that program. I did not look much past Rudd, cause the others were untested and largely unknown, except Crean.

    All was well until 2009, and then the scale of waste and incompetence became evident. Then the li es, back stabbing, coup, you name it in 2010, 2011, 2012.

  106. Suzanne Blake

    @ SBH

    “Julius f-ing Caesar, act 1”

    Lets hope its only Act 1 of 30!!!!.

    Did you hear that Oakeshott said he would seriously consider supporting LNP with Turnbull as leader. The plot thickens.

    Does the LNP have a change next week as well?

  107. Peter Ormonde

    Troofie, Wizz, Suzanne…

    Democracy? What would you know about democracy? Not this particular democracy anyway. You reckon you voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007. Not unless you live in his electorate you didn’t. You thought you were were voting for a president. But heck you only got a Prime Minister. He is elected by caucus. Wrong country mate. Wrong constitution. You constantly get these things wrong.

    Now as to democracy… I don’t think it is democratic that the rich and powerful own our governments. Or do you think that Gina Rinehart gets just the same number of votes that you do, carries the same weight? Power is not just voting for someone (in Suzanne’s case, Craig Trousers Thomson) and riding it out. These people – the owners of your future – exercise power every day and not just in a cardboard booth every three or four years.

    I’m not all that interested in the ownership of the means of production. It’s the means of production themselves I’m more interested in. To be quite honest I find myself wondering if all that power and money makes them any the happier. Look how happy Gina Rinehart is. How wonderfully her family gets along. Good job Gina. And yet she has all that stuff. She just has no idea what to do with it – what makes a useful or productive life. I reckon just collecting stuff sucks and isn’t much of a reason for breathing.

    I know some good capitalists – seriously clever and filthy rich – and they do good useful things with their money. They bankroll the Greens. They buy art and donate it to public galleries. They are not consumed with greed and insatiable psychopathic hunger like Murdoch. They laugh a lot and don’t gobble themselves into an early grave.

    So no not stuck in the 1960s… if anywhere I’d be stuck back with William Morris I’d reckon. Look him up Troofie.

    So again I ask you and Suzanne and all your other “swinging voter” identities – why did you vote Labor in 2007 … was it abolishing WorkChoices, or investing in education, or Kevin Rudd’s obvious channeling of Tin-Tin? Seems none of you can remember.

  108. SBH

    Julius f-ing Caesar, act 1

    You know Marylin, the more I listen to Rudd the more I realise what a dud he is. Initially I thought your point about Syria a bit irrelevant but what I see is a gifted campaigner, whose job it was to promote Australia’s interests overseas, leaving the Syrians to rot while he pursues a meglomaniacal agenda. He’s a spoilt child and unfortunately he’s held a really important post. For shame.

  109. Suzanne Blake

    @ Johnfromplanetearth

    Please relex, we are seeing the end of Labor either forver or for many many years. In the fallout and navel gazing the Greens will cop it as well and their vote will decline a little.

    We will see a new party emerge to pick up from Labor or a radically changed Labor party.

  110. Johnfromplanetearth

    My god i just listened to KRudd’s return speech. The man is totally delusional, he waffles on about Abbott and Gillard with extraordinary character assassination, he actually believes in his own madness. He is obsessed with himself and talks with such conviction that KRudd is now becoming a caricature of himself, he reminds me of Sherman and Mr Peabody!
    Monday will tell us if we continue with the inept, incapable Julia Gillard or do we return to the maniacal, chaotic, disorganised madness of KRudd.
    He is still bitter about the midnight coup, he talks about people power, WTF? The brotherhood of KRudd?
    KRudd has no interest in the Australian people, his ego has been severely dented by the ‘coup’ and by a woman to boot!
    “Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it” ~ Colin Powell KRudd’s ego has only been dented, it hasn’t gone anywhere!
    KRudd is an ego maniac, he loves the attention, he loves swanning around the globe meeting foreign leaders and anyone prepared to listen that he is the saviour of Australia!
    His challenge is a gamble he has to take to satisfy his own lust for power and once again be the head cheese, Julia Gillard’s big mistake was making him Foreign Minister instead of relegating him to the back bench where he belongs!
    This inept Government has completely stuffed Australia in 4 short years, no matter what happens Monday the saga will continue as there is no unity in this party what so ever.
    KRudd is right about one thing, he says Julia Gillard has lost the trust and confidence of the Australian people, but i question the alternative!
    Can we afford a return of the psychopath?

  111. Suzanne Blake

    @ shepherdmarilyn

    “Syria has a crisis, we have gibber monkeys on the back fence picking each others nits over not much”

    Gibber Monkeys they may be….but it is a lot, we are seeing the end of the Labor party for many terms of Parliament. People have had enough, business has had enough, voters have had enough and consumer are voting with their feet.

  112. Suzanne Blake

    @ GeeWizz

    Yes Comrade Peter Ormonde is stuck in a time warp, when you opened the pay envelope each fortnight and smelt the new $10 and $20 notes.

    Federal Labor will be the same, after they get smashed at the next election, some commentators are saying 2 – 3 terms in Opposition. Just like after Keating and Whitlam.

    A scientific pattern is emerging.

  113. shepherdmarilyn

    Lesser beings is right. Venise that was brilliant.

    Crean and co. have been appalling and gutless waiting until Rudd was in Mexico and could not defend himself.

    Rudd loves the ALP, he loves this country and he wanted to be in government in 2010, there is no way he wanted to sabotage anything but we do know now for sure that Gillard is the one who was white anting with internal polling weeks and months before she stabbed him in the back.

  114. CML

    Just two things –
    Rudd is a brilliant, very intelligent visionary and the kind of person who needs lots of new ideas and thoughts to “anchor” his behaviour and focus his attention. They can also be erratic!
    Secondly, he has loads of charisma due to the above, and the majority of the people just love him, without understanding why. It is simply because people are drawn to anyone with these attributes, because they are so interesting and different from most other people.
    If you think about it, that is what drives lesser beings (read Swan, Emerson, Crean et al) into a frenzy. They cannot compete on Rudd’s level, so the next best response is to try and destroy him. Only trouble is, Rudd is much too clever for them.
    Gillard is a “plodder” – even a behind the scenes organiser – who was perfect as Rudd’s deputy, but can’t operate in a leadership position. She is the bland, back-room type with absolutely NO charisma. Hence Rudd also enrages her, and she has finally (yesterday) resorted to the destroy mode. All very unsavoury.
    And another thing – all you people who keep making slanderous remarks about Rudd leaking to journalists etc. (Laurie Oakes for example), should be very careful, unless you have absolute proof of this. I have never heard of a journalist revealing his/her sources in connection with Rudd, so would be happy to have a reference if there is one? As far as I’m aware, Rudd has always denied that he “leaked” anything to the media during the election campaign, 2010. So-called “knowing” that he did so, and proving it, are two very different things.
    Having said all that, I predict that the lesser beings are far too stupid to vote for Rudd as leader, and so the government will go down in a screaming heap at the next election. You see, it is all about these “lesser beings” and to hell with the people’s wishes and, for that matter, the once great Labor Party. And they have the effrontery to blame Kevin Rudd for trying to wreck the party. Give me a break!!

  115. Owen Gary

    @ Venise alstergren

    I agree with you I think I will just bow out on this one, Everybody here is under the illusion governments rule countries.

    By the time they have all finished their petty arguments the power brokers hiding behind the scenes will have stitched up another 100 deals or so, & bought off at least another dozen pollies. who when finished in politics will become lobbyists for these corporate entities & financial institutions, the cycle continues.

    “Only 2 things in the universe are infinite, the universe & human stupidity”

    :- Frank Zappa

  116. Socratease

    @sickofitall: COuld Rudd take 30 caucus memebers and form a party with Turnbull and the other ‘wets’?

    I very much doubt it. Rudd is a apparatchik, not a former or a builder. I think he sees the Labor party as there to serve him, rather than the opposite. I can’t see him bothering to write a manifesto for a new organism.

  117. klewso

    Anyone else catch the other “Manchurian Candidate” the other night – the one with Sinatra, Harvey and Leigh – the “original” one?

  118. GeeWizz

    [“You asked… so here: Largely because I thought there was more to life than working in BHP’s coke ovens. I hated the fact that some people led sad little lives of hard work, dirt, danger and struggle,only to eventually retire, go on the pension for a couple of years and die … sad little anonymous lives. “]

    Wow such a sad story… this is bringing a tear to my eye.

    Working the coal-face the poor little blighters are coming out, blackened, sore and BHP just throwing a free lunch their way and just enough to pay the rent that week.

    Except people who work for BHP these days make about $100K+ and are some of the best paid people in the country. They aren’t heading home to a little 2 bedroom fibro home with a leaky roof, they are actually heading home to their $500K mcMansion and their BMW Cars.

    It’s seems the world has changed, but comrade Petes stuck in the 60’s

  119. Patriot

    Who for, Guytard? Greens? Socialist Alliance?

  120. guytaur

    @Geewizz

    2010

  121. GeeWizz

    Guytaur what year was it that you voted for a party other than the Labor Party?

  122. guytaur

    ABC Foriegn Correspondent talking about China. On Local Radio now.
    He is saying that in the past gossip was not news. Now in the days of the internet gossip has reached he Status of news.
    I think h may just be right. Not just for reporting on China. I think it explains a lot of the coverage of Australian politics recently.

  123. guytaur

    @Geewizz

    Another post proving you cannot be a swing voter.

  124. GeeWizz

    [“Who do you vote for these days? Socialist Alliance? Greens? Probably Greens. That’s where all your Communist Party comrades ended up.”]

    Not left enough I reckon.

    I reckon he’d be out front with his ballot paper burning it with a cigarette lighter saying don’t vote, Democracy is the work of the devil… and scaring the kids.

  125. guytaur

    @Patriot

    Capitalism is good. Not however this modern greed is not only good but essential. Even made into law for corporations by maximising dividends for shareholders.

    No wonder the world i going downhill fast.

  126. TheAppallingTruth

    Kevin Rudd’s Mobile Challenge
    http://www.KevinRudd.mobi

    At stake? The dignity and integrity of the nation.

  127. Venise Alstergren

    My name is Australia. I am an orphan. My parents killed each other with lies and knives of bitter hatred. So great was their hatred for each other they forgot they were meant to be looking after me. I’ve been given, in turn, to England; to America; to Japan and China. And now India is next on the list. I have been ripped apart by billionaire miners, sucked dry by lobby groups with secret agendas, and spread lies about me to whomsoever would listen.

    How dare people fight and kill each other in my name when what they mean is they’re guarding their own self-interests. I have an uncle who failed to make the grade as a Catholic priest. Now he bellows at, and struts the political stage with total self-belief. He utters meaningless tripe. And is a stranger to dignity.

    I’m sick of being hawked around like a cheap tröllop. First one person grabs what they want of me before passing me along to the next man with a billion dollars- and no scruples. Another uncle is a billionaire publisher who wields power for the sake of power. His lies are spread throughout the world with the ease of two fleas mating. He tells me that the greater the lie the more people will believe it to be the truth. I’m sick of the hacks, the greedy, and the venal stupidity of the people. However, who ever listens to orphans?

  128. Patriot

    Peter,

    Your motivation was admirable, but those people toiling away in the coke ovens always had the freedom to own their own means of production. Everyone does. If you can wash windows you can own your own means of production. If you can mow lawns you can own your own means of production. If you can buy shares you can own someone else’s means of productions.

    If you love anything at all you will understand that opposing things that threaten it is often necessary and is perfectly normal. I’d go further and say it’s admirable. Why are you here opposing conservatives, right-wingers, capitalists and all the other bad guys?

  129. guytaur

    It is simple. History will reord the good of the Rudd prime ministership. The apology. It will also recall the bad. The plunging polls as Abbott attacks bit. The betrayal of the faithful by turning hi back on pricing carbon. The dysfunction and paralys due to his negotiation failures in the Senate.

    All in all not a brilliant legacy. Something that will be on the minds of Zcaucus Monday Morning.

  130. sickofitall

    the last 5 years or so have seen a reenactment of the events of 1929-1931. Bruce loses Flinders, to a man who only keeps it for one term. Labor splits (over policy) three ways, destabilising (the decent) Jim Scullin. Joe Lyons, fresh from Labor, forms (with a few others) a new party with the Nationalists. COuld Rudd take 30 caucus memebers and form a party with Turnbull and the other ‘wets’?

    interesting times indeed.

  131. shepherdmarilyn

    Syria has a crisis, we have gibber monkeys on the back fence picking each others nits over not much

  132. SBH

    And still the media play in their own sand pit talking about ‘implosions’ (how popular and misused that’s become) and ‘the party tearing itself apart. F&cking nonsense. As my fellow traveler comrade Patriot notes – being able to have a vote for leader shows a healthy party with robust procedures and one far preferable to one where decisions are made in secret by a cabal. Much of the grief we are currently going through can be sheeted back to Rudd resigning instead of having the courage to call spill the leadership and then pretending he was robbed. He wouldn’t have been able to do that if there’d been a spill.

    Now what are the odds that Rudd really tries to wreck the party by resigning from the ALP and setting up another party in time for the election. It’s a thought.

  133. Peter Ormonde

    You asked… so here: Largely because I thought there was more to life than working in BHP’s coke ovens. I hated the fact that some people led sad little lives of hard work, dirt, danger and struggle,only to eventually retire, go on the pension for a couple of years and die … sad little anonymous lives.

    And the people who own the machines and factories lived big lives in nice places – lives of comfort and conspicuous consumption. I still hate it. I was a pretty simple sort of fella back then. Still am.

    But my main reason for joining the CPA back then was that there was no one else in my home town who was remotely interested in political discussion or who were standing up for poor people or people doing it tough. Labor locally was a family business run by the Morris brothers federally and by the Jones brothers in the state parliament. I’d never met a Liberal voter.

    The CPA was way ahead of the game on a lot of new and challenging ideas – like ecology, conservation and feminism. … Stuff that most sensible people now take as a given of political life.

    I also used to think I could discuss ideas and convince people of the sheer logic of change and its desirability. Now I don’t. I’ll let time and history sort it all out.

    Nothing at all attractive about the USSR, China or anywhere else. Not a big fan of state ownership or bureaucracy. I liked Marx a lot. Still do. But flawed. Particularly about fossil fuels and the substitution of human labor with energy from the ground. He was also far too optimistic about the capitalist system’s technology and progress… the inevitability of it all. He was also a shocking writer.
    Huge sentences.

    There are inevitable things – but most are not good. Oil hitting $200 a barrel is probably inevitable and probably won’t be a good thing. Especially if you are obese, live 10kms from the mall and need a V8 SUV to drag the immense carcass about.

    See when I see a whining person – complaining about everything, the government, the unions, the foreigners – yet claiming to “love this country”, I wonder what it is they like. Usually they can’t tell me or they make something up, then immediately contradict it with another whine. Usually they like something else altogether – something vague, something nostalgic, something mythical. But not this country. Not my country. Not my people. No – they don’t like any of that at all.

    That help at all? Probably not. Like I said I’m quite happy for history to take care of these things. Sometimes one must just wait. But I can’t help giving things a kick every now and again. Old habits.

  134. DF

    Patriot – Sorry mate, how is that anything to do with anything happening today? Why don’t you ask him for his personal email address and then you can fling your puerile insults on the privacy of your own screens, without boring the bejesus out of the rest of us.

  135. SBH

    This just gets worse. Now we have Rudd’s call to people power as a way of determining the prime ministership and government through some kind of direct election. I don’t have any in principle problem but it shows how outside he gone from the party that has made him who he is. And just how fabulously egotistical he is.

  136. DF

    All this blah-blah about how the Opposition is going to win the next election because of the current mess is based on the assumed premise that Labor would have won it if a) Rudd were still PM, or b) if Rudd had been a team player. Has anyone considered that the Coalition might have won it anyway? Govts do turn over every few terms.

    Perhaps the only difference is who will be leading the Opposition. As things stand, because of the polls, Abbott looks a shoo-in at the moment. However, if Rudd had been able to live with his personal disappointment and play the team game by using his popular appeal on behalf of the party, its supporters and its leader instead of himself, Abbott’s poll numbers might have been sufficient for Turnbull to have another shot at the job, in which case Labor might have lost anyway. As Abbott remarked, “Sh1t happens”.

  137. Patriot

    DF

    Petsey was a member of the Communist Party and wrote for their propaganda paper,
    Tribune. He’s admitted it and enjoys recalling those happy times. How is it any of your business?

  138. DF

    Patriot
    Either make an intelligent post or shut up. Your tired old Cold War rhetoric is boring, outdated and silly. If that’s where you are in terms of your understanding of politics, I hope you get a telegram from the Queen next birthday.

  139. Patriot

    I bet this business of people challenging for the leadership in a ballot is intolerable to you. No doubt you prefer the communist approach of purging anyone who shows dissent.

  140. Patriot

    Who do you vote for these days? Socialist Alliance? Greens? Probably Greens. That’s where all your Communist Party comrades ended up.

  141. Patriot

    Peter,

    You joined the Communist Party and produced propaganda for them because…? Fess up.

  142. AR

    Marylin – Beazley was dumped for Crean, then Crean for Latham, then Latham for Rudd then Rudd for herself.
    Err.. no, Bumbler Beazley was trundled out (didn’t have the wherewithall to put one foot after tuther hisself) to fumble & wobble & equivocate with prolix prolixity after Latham. Then was The First Koming of KRUDD. And hopefully the last.
    PO – troothy/whizzer gutless as usual – how many times is this now that you’ve called it to put up cash and it’s disappeared until hopefully the offer was forgotten?
    Interesting that it now tries to change the terms from “challenging” to becoming PM – on this planet, at this time, dat’s the same fing, innit?
    Socratese – re thatcher – she only “won” government because of FPtP and massive disengagement of the lumpen labour vote. She NEVER had a majority of the vote, let alone the electorate. Her highest vote was 1979, it declined every election thereafter (even the “famous Falklands” victory didn’t lift the tory vote) and even Johhny Minor achieved a higher vote in 1992 than she did.

  143. Peter Ormonde

    Yes Troofie and in 2007 you voted ALP because….? Fess up.

  144. GeeWizz

    [“I watched as Kevin Rudd wept like a sook when he was deposed. Everyone felt so sorry for him, because then, no one really knew why he had been deposed. I campaigned for Rudd 2007. But he lost me when he leaked to Oakes during the election. Kevin Rudd wants us to think that he is a changed man.”]

    You’ll vote for Labor if Kevin is leader…. or Julia…. or the Easter Bunny..

    It’s the swinging voters that matter

  145. taylormade

    If Swan put in half the effort in prosecuting his economic arguments, as he did in slagging off Rudd and and in the past Abbot, then he may find the public reward the govt for the current state of the economy.

    They sure play for keeps these labour ministers, nothing like losing thier positions of power to get them all fired up. Is massive, have never seen anything like it.

    If Gillard holds, i wonder what the 2013 election campaign will be like. God help us all.

    One things for sure, this period of Govt 2007- when ever ??? will be talked about for many years to come. I wonder how history will judge it.

  146. the learnered chilli eater

    @ Geewizz – it would be interesting to see whether in todays era of mass media marketing etc whether Howard would have been elected in 1997 given his past history? the Australian electorate isn’t very savvy and I can just imagine the types of tv advertising the Liberal Party would do on Rudd.. I think Rudd is unelectable ‘at the moment’ but am not saying, after the ALP gets the boot at the next election, whether Rudd could make a comeback.

  147. supermundane

    The best way to resolve this crisis is for the party to put a third option forward. In my opinion, Greg Combet would be the ideal choice and if he were put forward I strongly suspect that sufficient supporters for Rudd and Gillard would get behind Combet.

  148. lilac

    Kevin Rudd will go down in Australian history as the man who dragged down a great reformist ALP Government, achieved in the climate of a minority government and probably the dirtiest smear campaign ever undertaken by the media in this country against a PM! Not satisfied with that little badge of honour, he has severely derailed and destabilised the re-election campaign of the ALP in Queensland to boot! Well done Mr Krudd.

  149. Frank Campbell

    “The key issue that drove the government’s vote down was Gillard’s decision to embrace a carbon price early last year. ”

    Correct.

    So let’s not be distracted by these two deeply unattractive personalities, one a provincial careerist, the product of narrow factional cynicism – the other a messianic narcissist.

    Remember- it was Rudd, the Saviour of the World, who was borne aloft into Copenhagen by a vast caravan of 114 officials, only to be crucified.

    Remember- the carbon tax (not “price”) partially replaced a plethora of expensive, premature, fatuous and/or mismanaged “climate” schemes, such as pink batts, cash for clunkers, geothermal power, middle-class solar rorts, useless wind turbines, etc etc.

    Both Rudd and Gillard share responsibility for all of this.

    They also share responsibility for failing to comprehend the decline of climate millenarianism among voters. No one ( including Abbott, Hunt and Turnbull) has yet faced what is obvious to all: that public rejection of climate extremism derives from the exaggerated, unproven predictions of immediate and dramatic climate impacts.

    Therefore it makes little difference who leads Labour into the next election. The Greens will retain their 10% but most will vote Coalition because they know Abbott is a hypocrite about global warming- he doesn’t believe in it, and his “climate” policies (if ever implemented) will be less damaging to working class interests and the economy generally than the Labour alternative.

  150. cheryl hunt

    I watched as Kevin Rudd wept like a sook when he was deposed. Everyone felt so sorry for him, because then, no one really knew why he had been deposed. I campaigned for Rudd 2007. But he lost me when he leaked to Oakes during the election. Kevin Rudd wants us to think that he is a changed man. Yet, he spat the dummy in washington and resigned as foreign minister without consulting with Prime Minister. Now that shows real immaturity…Julia Gillard on the other hand, has been graceful by not dropping Rudd into it, up until now. She has copped heaps & heaps from the media, opposition and the very vengeful Rudd working undercover to sabatage her every step of the way. I am of the opinion that the amount of relentless abuse directed towards her on a daily basis is unprecedented. Today, she showed her real metal and I say Bravo Julia!

  151. Peter Ormonde

    Troofie,

    Talk is cheap.

    Tell us all something…. you and Suzanne are “swinging voters” apparently who voted Labor in 2007.

    Why? What did you like about Labor in 2007… what was it… Kevin’s boyish charm, the promise to abolish work choices… or in Suzanne’s case, Craig Thomson’s charismatic persona? What part of Labor’s platform drew you to this fatal error?

  152. GeeWizz

    Suzanne,

    Rudd is smart. He won’t contest if he doesn’t have the numbers, what would be the point?

    It was GILLARD who called the leadership ballot. Rudd can just sit back and say she is being extremely paranoid… that he’s just been a very happy little vegemite being Foreign Minister and even then she attacked him.

    Then he’ll play the long game… leaking to the media weekly reports from inside the Labor Party and gaining support as Dillards numbers drop off the scales and the election draws closer. Rudd’s not stupid he is a master at this stuff.

  153. GeeWizz

    [“Ask the Menzies House mob to stake you. Come on Troofie – you’re always telling us what will happen next. You’d be as rich as Croesus with that sort of inside info and wouldn’t even notice a little wager like this … a trifle… a Friday lunch.”]

    I’ve already told you whats going to happen.

    Rudd’s gonna count the numbers and if he doesn’t have them he won’t contest the leadership… best to save it for another day, why show your cards when you can play bluff?

    YOU however told us Rudd would never become PM again… big call mate.. big call…

  154. the learnered chilli eater

    Tony Abbott must sitting back having an absolute laugh, he’ll waltz into the role of PM with an overwhelming vote from the electorate!

  155. Mike Flanagan

    Whilst, once again the journalist’s attention is rivetted on the controversy, we see little or no analysis of the constitutional dilemma that Rudd’s re-emrgence as PM would create for the Independants and the Governor General.
    For Rudd to assume the Prime Ministership it would require him to demonstrate he has the support of the majority of members on the floor of the house before the GG could permit his investiture.
    This could be problematic as the one independant has already indicated he has reserves on the matter. We are yet to see or hear from other relevant members apart from A Wilke.
    The return of Ms Gillard does not effect the government or the GG as she has already demonstrated her capacity to maintain a majority on the floor.
    This would demonstrated the chaotic mind that Rudd’s managerial style is driven by, and his conviction to represent Labour at all should be questioned .

  156. tido wales

    Kevin Rudd will challenge and win. He’s got to. This America, man.

  157. Suzanne Blake

    @ Peter Ormonde

    Its amazing how quickly some lefties are also knifing Rudd.

    Gillard will win, my tip is 65 – 38. I am not a better, so happy to compare notes on Monday.

    Is Newspoll out Monday or Tuesday, if Monday, it could be closer, if Tuesday, then the above is my tip.

    Rudd cannot win on Monday, too much bad blood.

  158. Peter Ormonde

    Troofie …

    No wonder you like Rudd… gutless wonder that he is.

    All talk and gossip, but when it comes to putting up – nowhere to be seen. hiding behind someone else…. making excuses

    Ask the Menzies House mob to stake you. Come on Troofie – you’re always telling us what will happen next. You’d be as rich as Croesus with that sort of inside info and wouldn’t even notice a little wager like this … a trifle… a Friday lunch.

    Tell you what – if you don’t like my monopoly dollars – how about rubles comrade (I’d have some around here somewhere I’d imagine), gold bullion, nuggets, dust … anything you like … I smell easy money. I’ll take anything – as long as it’s yours.

  159. Owen Gary

    I see a post I made earlier has been censored Bernard!!!

    I hope this site is not a dupe like the (Family First Party)???

  160. botswana bob

    Lets not forget the “contribution” of Crean. Simon said all sorts of mean and nasty things about Rudd this week. Simon doesn’t say that his time as ALP leader was almost as bad as Gillard’s. He was such a dud that he’s not only a has been but a never was. Presumably these bouts of public trashmouthing are a job application for something more senior if Gillard wins. Please, Julia, keep him away from the Mental Health portfolio.

  161. Filth Dimension

    Geeweezz. man up. put your money where your mouth is.

  162. Owen Gary

    The Labor party has been (infiltrated & subjugated from the right). They will not win the next election without Rudd, this is the whole point of this drummed up media driven hysteria instigated from big business interests, using their “right hand men” in the Labor party.

    It is a SETUP!!!!!

    They have initiated a campaign to draw out a leadership challenge (early) which Gillard will probably win. The nearer we would have got to the election would have seen a leadership spill in Rudds favour. “Karma is a bitch but it is a fair one”

    What does this tell us:- The Labor Right have sabotaged any chance of Labor winning the next election, Why???

    I can also without any shadow of a doubt tell you that Shorten is next in line for the Throne, he sold out a lot of union members in the AWU so I guess this is his reward, the big miners love him!!

    I have the greatest respect for Doug Cameron & he stands for what the Labor Party was & should be.

    Kevin Rudd has been knifed twice by the same treacherous chameleons who pretend they are loyal to the Labor party. I really do hope he stands as an independent, I for one would vote for him!!

    Most here are getting distracted by side issues, a political party does what it can to get in office by hook or by crook, the trouble is there are to many crooks in this party & they are from the right!!

  163. Suzanne Blake

    @ Pedantic, Balwyn

    The Ministers that Gillard has trotted out today to support her, know that if Rudd wins many will be on the back bench. That is what is driving them to support her.

    Same with Rudd supporters, those Ministers want a better Ministry.

  164. GeeWizz

    Petsey’s monopoly money isn’t legal tender, sorry mate.

  165. GeeWizz

    [“Ok, but then there is no official leadership challenge? ?

    So this entire, whatever you want to call it, is simply an exercise in speculation or even mildly entertaining gossip?”]

    Gillard will end up looking bad…. Rudd hasn’t actually said he wanted a challenge, just that he was basically fired as Foreign Minister.

    So now it’s all back on Gillard. It looks like Gillard is attacking Rudd when he was just sitting there being a very very happy little vegemite Foreign Minister

  166. Peter Ormonde

    Troofie – you’re on.

    I’ll send $500 to Crikey tomorrow morning. I’d be wanting 5:1 against Kevin Rudd winning the next election running as PM. So you’ll need to lodge $2,500. Crikey will pay out once the result of the 2013 election is known or if Rudd should ascend to the leadership of the Labor Party beforehand at any time before then. Crikey gets 20% of the total pot (of $3,000).

    Done.

  167. Stamm Michael

    Straight banana
    Kev was Wanye Goss right hand man. Can’t understand why everyone is suprised at whats happened

  168. Plane

    Quingley Joseph
    “If I were Rudd, I would not challenge Gillard if/when she calls on a spill next week”.

    Ok, but then there is no official leadership challenge? ?

    So this entire, whatever you want to call it, is simply an exercise in speculation or even mildly entertaining gossip?

  169. shepherdmarilyn

    Abbott is not shutting up. Every man and his dog are whining like bitches in heat.

    What agenda does Gillard have?

    Come on, name one thing beside crimes against humanity.

  170. GeeWizz

    Quigley I think you nailed it.

    Kev’s not going to go to a ballot if he doesn’t have the numbers, just like he didn’t in June 2010 he let Dillard take the leadership uncontested.

    If he rings around and finds out he has the numbers then he will put his hat in the ring because then he knows he can win.

    If he doesn’t have the numbers though, why put your name on the ballot? Better off to make it look like you never even bothered to contest that way you can later say that the party never voted down your nomination and gives Kev a place and time of his choosing for the knifing in the future.

  171. outside left

    John, thankyou for that.

  172. Peter Ormonde

    John,

    Would that 80 – 90% of caucus reads your post. But ambition and a massive ego can easily dwarf the national interest apparently. And a mob of timid one-termers and amateur politicians act like a herd of frightened horses startled by every breeze emanating from some orifice at Essential Polling.

    We’ll see but I find it hard to believe that even the most empty and timid backbencher would think about Keven Rudd again – Troofies’ hero and Suzanne Blake’s new pin-up boy.

    Anyway the troll’s comments here today have been most useful – just underlining the interests getting behind Kevin… whose interests he is serving. Even Abbott and Barnaby Joyce have the sense to shut up and let it play out. But not the mediocrities militant down at Menzies House…. can’t shut ’em up. Excellent.

  173. QUIGLEY JOSEPH

    If I were Rudd, I would not challenge Gillard if/when she calls on a spill next week.
    I would ask one of my alleged conspirators (other than Kim Carr, who has nailed his colours to the mast) to stand and claim to be a compromise candidate.
    This Rudd conspirator (RC), either male or female, could take the opportunity to outline why he/she (but really Rudd) believes why ALP can’t win the next election under Gillard, indeed under anyone, even Kevin Rudd. But anyone would do better than Gillard.
    It is possible that this RC might get the same % vote that Rudd would get if Rudd challenged. RC might even get more than the Rudd % but not enough to topple Gillard.
    However as the next election draws near and things get worse for ALP (starting with Queensland poll next month) discontent with Gillard’s expected debilitating performance will lead to another call for a spill in the Caucus and the Honorable Kevin Rudd will put himself forward as the redeemer of a lost tribe.
    Cricket Australia must be breathing a sigh of relief. This story has taken their pathetic handling of Ricky Ponting’s retirement out of the headlines.

  174. GeeWizz

    Centrebet odd’s aren’t up mate.

    But that wasn’t your original bet. You original bet was that Kevin Rudd wouldn’t be PM…. Ever… Again.

    For that we’d be waiting till at least the 2013 election

  175. John

    The arguments for each side were made eloquently and calmly by Penny Wong (for Julia Gillard) and Robert McClelland (for Kevin Rudd) on live TV at 5pm this afternoon.
    Penny Wong’s argument is that Gillard is the best prime minister.
    Robert McClelland’s argument is that Kevin Rudd has the better chance of winning the next election.
    It was easily inferred from Robert McClelland’s answers (on Nine News At Five) that the criticisms from the Gillard camp of Rudd’s prime ministership are accurate.
    Wong put country ahead of party, as governments should.
    McClelland thinks winning the next election is more important than governing Australia competently in the current term of parliament.
    I think the ALP caucus should put the nation ahead of the party. They should aim to govern the country according to the principles they stand for. Standing for nothing except populism and electability would result in a hollow victory, not a victory for Labor ideals.
    The electorate votes a government in for a good term, not a long term.
    Make this term of government a good term and allow the real Julia to connect with the people the way she did today.
    The people will probably warm to her when they learn the truth about Kevin as PM, when they see the fruits of Julia’s legislation and when they come to appreciate her calm strength in the most difficult of circumstances.
    If Kevin loses Monday’s ballot, he owes it to the Labor Party to see out his term of parliament rather than being a spoiler, taking home his bat and ball, and causing a by-election.
    He would also owe it to his party not to undermine the winner in the short period left until the 2013 election.

  176. Peter Ormonde

    It was me Troofie yes me. I’m still up for a bet – only against you though …. or one of your other personas (yes even you Sooz)…

    $500 … centrebet odds as at this afternoon. Done deal? Quite happy to lodge my stake with Crikey tomorrow and we’ll settle up Tuesday. Done deal?

  177. GeeWizz

    Yes anyone who thinks it’s “Game Over” come Monday has to be dreaming…. or a card-carrying Labor oppurtunist, your choice.

    Rudd isn’t a quiter, he will do Dillard slowly all the way up the election until he gets his job back if he needs to. Do you really reckon he’s just gonna sit quietly on the back bench biting his tongue?

    Come on reality check folks…. Rudds not done yet

  178. Pedantic, Balwyn

    Blind Freddy could see that Kevin Rudd has a personality issue that caused the caucus to depose him.
    Operating as a one man band, contempt for colleagues and the public service, and lack of fortitude to drive real reform all contributed to his downfall.
    Since his departure he has run a vindictive campaign against the Government with no regard to the Labor Party. His off the record leaks to Laurie Oakes nearly lost Labor the election, only Julia Gillard’s powers of negotiation produced a minority Government. Since then he or his cohorts have taken every opportunity to destabilise the Gillard Government and Labor in an act of revenge.
    As if combating Tony Abbot, News Ltd and working with the Independents and the Greens wasn’t a big enough burden for any Prime Minister. It is hardly surprising that Gillard hasn’t fulfilled all the desires for marriage rights or pokie reforms but then no one else would have got so much done in the areas of health, taxing super profits in mining or carbon pricing.
    With the monkey off their back, although Kevin Rudd hasn’t declared what he will do, has prompted his cabinet colleagues to unleash their wrath at Kevin Rudd’s behaviour; who can blame them. He has back stabbed them at every opportunity.
    Bear in mind that Kevin Rudd squibbed out of contesting Gillard the first time, the best road is that he should leave Parliament now and give someone else the chance to win his seat. There must be some big name in Queensland to take on the role.

  179. GeeWizz

    Jimmy where are you getting those odds?

  180. Jimmy

    SB – Not a wimp – he didn’t even go to a vote to hold on to being PM!

    “On policy – I could not be bothered for the next week” You haven’t been bothered for the last 2 years so why would you start next week?

  181. Jimmy

    Geewizz – Wasn’t me but the odd’s seem to be against you, Rudd is at $4.50, Gillard $1.18.

  182. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    Rudd’s ego is unchallenged, he will lose, he will smart, leak to media, get angry, missed the first class flights and meals and the attention, he will then get more angry…….then he will challenge again or go the nuclear option.

    He will not sit on the back benches for 18 months. Do you believe he will?

    He is not a limp wimp like Crean, Peacock, Beasley etc.

    Rudd has a very strong persona, you saw it in the video Gillard’s offices leaked last weekend.

    On policy – I could not be bothered for the next week, just enjoying the imploding. Basil Fawlty, KK, TA, MT or Jack The Ripper could beat Gillard now.

  183. Jimmy

    Geewizz – There comes a time when even someone like Rudd needs to face the facts, if he get’s beaten by the level expected, or worse chickens out and doesn’t even challenge then it’s pretty much over, he might still try to ruin Gillard but his supporters will desert him and move on.

    SB – Still cna’t find the time to discuss policy?

  184. GeeWizz

    Hey Suzanne,

    Who was it a few days ago who was making a $500 bet that Rudd wouldn’t be PM again?

    Petsey’s or Jimmy?

    Looking like a pretty good bet right about now

  185. Suzanne Blake

    @ cairns50

    Sorry to disappoint you, just another voter in a marginal electorate. You should come and visit one, real eye opener. Jimmy, PO and the others lefties here spend too much time in safe electorates.

    Nobodys lacky, nobodys puppet, nobodys girl – now where have I heard that before. Yes KKK in the BearPit in 2010.

  186. GeeWizz

    [“Geewizz – “Rudd will keep challenging for the top job and playing the long game by sucking out all of the oxygen out of the Labor Party.” And you know this how? If he keeps destabilising he will lose his gloss very quickly.”]

    Because I’ve been paying attention for the last 18 months?

    You must have had your head up your… never mind.

    He’s going to be doing the same thing he has been doing for 18 months now and thats to undermine Gillard till she gives him his job back. Why would he stop at Mondays ballot when he knows almost 60% of Australians support him as PM versus unelectable Dillard?

  187. Peter Ormonde

    Troofie/Suzanne/Patriot/Wizz… whichever foil hat toy are wearing at the moment – you have once again missed the salient point above.

    I will write slowly. There is no challenge. Rudd is yet to declare his intentions for Monday – whether he will stand or not. See no challenge. He’s too gutless and he knows he hasn’t got the numbers.

    It is Gillard who is forcing the pace here … pushing Rudd to either step up or step away. I reckon he’ll do the latter. But not a challenge Troofie. He’s not up for it. Doesn’t like risking things to ballots. Would rather work through the press gallery and leaks. Anonymously. You know the sort of thing.

    Anyway Troofie, you were talking about Sunday being the day… stroking yourself into a frenzy of excitement and expectation and then … and then …. nuffin … again. Here we are on Thursday and still Kevin won’t stand up. Gee you must be tired.

    Come on little blue pills.

  188. Jimmy

    Geewizz – “Rudd will keep challenging for the top job and playing the long game by sucking out all of the oxygen out of the Labor Party.” And you know this how? If he keeps destabilising he will lose his gloss very quickly.

    By the way seeing how you are always handy with the odd’s how have you missed this one-
    Hayden Lane from Sportsbet.com.au said Ms Gillard was paying $1.18 for a win to Mr Rudd’s $4.50.

  189. Mike Flanagan

    Rudd arrives in Brisbane airport and informs the waiting hacks and flakes that he will inform them of his decision on whether he will challenge when he gets back to Australia. I thought he had been both Foreign Minister and hence may have realised that Brisbane is in Australia as it is in my atlas.
    This man is an ego driven media tart.

  190. GeeWizz

    [“SB – Absolute rubbish, this isn’t even as bad as when Keating took on Hawke, Rudd will get pole axed on Monday, at best the vote will be 70 to 35 and he will be done.”]

    Rudd will keep challenging for the top job and playing the long game by sucking out all of the oxygen out of the Labor Party.

    We will see Dillards poll numbers get worse as Kevin keeps the pressure on and the weekly media narrative will be whether Kev will succeed this week or not.

  191. GeeWizz

    [“Try and remember this is a team sport – more to it than goodies and baddies. More to it than Great Men and personality politics. This is not about policies and politics – this is about ambition – overweening ambition and revenge. Or is it that last week’s baddy is this week’s goody? Spots changing all over the place?”]

    Hey Petsey’s didn’t you say roughly 24 hours ago that there would be no challenge and it was all just a big media beatup.

    What happened mate?

  192. cairns50

    so suzanne blake has chimed in again, my thoughts are that every single word you write i disagree with

    no wonder the press is so poor in the country when there are people like yourself around who echo there views with there every post when it comes to bagging and slagging the labor party

    dont you give julia gillard any credit for the policy outcomes that she has achieved under very diffucult circumstances ?

    are you a press lackey ? or a liberal lackey ?

  193. michael r james

    Dear Sock,
    She had the British press intimidated–like a fierce nanny with her handbag ready to clip them around the ears. She did not fare so well with others–remember the famous interview with a prominent Oz journo who was not so reverent and was persistent despite her non-answers? (Was that Charlton, I forget.) Like Howard, she fluked into the leadership not from any careful or crafty planning but by accident of time and circumstance.

    And you are right, thank goodness, that Gillard is nothing like Thatcher. The Iron lady was an inflexible bigotted little-Englander ideologue with the wrong ideology (Hayek! onya bike!). That is why little creeps like Howard worshipped her–those who would turn the clock back. The main thing that people could respect is that she was both consistent (though, in the way that a bigot is) and unbending; actually these turn out to be huge negatives in a changing world. Today what does Thatcher’s legacy look like? Does Cameron or any conservative really want to extoll Thatcherism? What ideals or vision of Britain did the Thatcher era usher in? It was a dead end, or worse, if you subscribe to the theory that Reaganism and Thatcherism led to the excesses of neocon economic rationalism that almost destroyed the world in the past few years.

    I could go on but I would be invoking Godwin’s Law…..

  194. Jimmy

    SB – The margin will be so large he could not possibly think of having another crack, especially as the independents would become more and more likely to tip them out the more goes he has. As I said this is no bigger than any other leadership change from either side.

    Now would you like to spend some of your time discussing policy rather than going over the same thing over and over, would you like to answer my question?

  195. Peter Ormonde

    Marilyn,

    You take it all very personally this politics business. Too personally perhaps.

    Doogie Cameron might think the Government is following Kevin Rudd’s agenda… but to be honest the only one I can see doing that is Doogie himself. Useless and too late.

    Rudd has an agenda make no mistake and it is all – ALL – about Kevin Rudd and his place in history. And to do that he’s been willing to leak, smear and betray the government of which he is ostensibly a part.

    His chief political backer in caucus in all this has been Chris Bowen – one of your pin-up boys no doubt. He’s not at all happy with the way Gillard is “going soft” of asylum seekers. God knows what Rudd has promised him.

    The nervous amateur politicians looking to follow the polls – are not NOT going to be doing anything not acceptable to Troofies and Suzanne Blakes. That’s how they think you win elections – by standing for nothing and promising less. Don’t wait for Rudd to say or do anything remotely sensible or humane on refugees. No votes in it, he reckons and so do his spineless backers.

    Don’t let Rudd’s Tin-Tin appearance fool you. He’s a bureaucrat, an administrator and a very pedestrian politician … and he always leads from the rear. Always.

    There is an agenda – a Labor agenda … a stream of good, smart legislation pouring through the parliament. None of this is Kevin’s – if so what? Australia doesn’t work on one-man-bands, nor do we expect our PMs to spew out policies and programs like Kim Jong-Il. But that’s what Kevin was trying to do. Some people like Bernard Keane reckon he was the Government personified.

    Try and remember this is a team sport – more to it than goodies and baddies. More to it than Great Men and personality politics. This is not about policies and politics – this is about ambition – overweening ambition and revenge. Or is it that last week’s baddy is this week’s goody? Spots changing all over the place?

  196. Scott

    I thought Annabel Crabb’s most recent article in “The Drum” sums it up pretty well. One particular extract stands out to me.

    “Believe whomever you choose; the only conclusion that can emerge from all this is that Labor is a party that will tell the truth only when it has exhausted any other option. Why is this a soap opera? Because everyone’s been acting for years”

    How true. Anyone who says they believe politicians of any stripe are honest or that the left wing are somehow more “pure” than the right, well, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

  197. cairns50

    you are kidding bernard with this article, most of your artilcles are normally ok, but this one is just a load of tosh, the government is not dysfunctional, there are no riots in the streets, the economy is not in a mess, what is happening is that kevin rudd will not accept that he is no longer prime minister. hindsight is a great thing but he has only himself to blame, for it was him and his constant worrying about how his ratings were on a daily basis that led to the labor mps decision to replace him as leader with julia gillard

    the polling said that he would not have won the last election, julia gillard did at least hold on to power albeit with the support of the independants, thats a fact, otherwise we would have a government led by tony abbott,which would be bad for all australians

    julia gillard has governed very well under very difficult circumstances, ok shes made some mistakes, big deal , what person doesnt ? and for people to continually pin her to the cross regarding her changing her views about a tax on carbon, get real, are you seriously suggesting that this is the only time that a politician has ever had a change of views and therefore she has to branded a liar. john howard was a serial liar, and although he denied it, most likely a racist, tony abbott told kerry o’brien on the 7.30 report that he could not be trusted unless he put his views down in writing, yet he is not labelled in the media as a liar, yet julia gillard is

    kevin rudd by his refusal to accept the decision of his own party has aided and abbetted a relentless campaign that has been run by big business, the big miners, the right wing shock jocks, the murdoch press etc etc to do everything in there power to get rid of julia gillard since the last election

    she will beat the rudd on monday and then she is entitled to be allowed govern until the next election, when then the australian people can decide if they really do want tony abbott to be australias next pm. i think the answer will be no

    get off her back and give her a go, im sure in your physce that some of you male journos like attacking female politicians, especially if they are labor, i still remember years ago the vitriol and bile that peter costello gave to ros kelly over the so called white board affair

  198. Mike Flanagan

    Michael R Jame
    Bernard does have a set against PM Gillard. He has not, to my thinking, supported that conclusion, but it does seem to be his default position.
    His constant refrain is incompetence, but he forgets we have a minority government and conveniently ignores the inordinate challenges most nations have to face in days enviroment and the successes our government has chalked up under PM Gillard.
    Grattan last said or wrote something complimentary of a Labor government sometime back in seventies and I think she must have been writing under the influence at the time.
    The press gallery is dominated by the Murdoch minions and they have all read Ruperts dictum that Ms Gillard” must be removed”. Inevitably their influence permeates throughout the Gallery.
    I am not sure, over the next eighteen months, Rupert will succeed. His strategy in UK is in disarray and his strategy in the US GOP primaries looks like backfiring and ensuring Obama re-election. A careful review of the alternatives on offer here should shock the local population and shake them out of their anti Gillard lethargy.

  199. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    “SB – Absolute rubbish, this isn’t even as bad as when Keating took on Hawke, Rudd will get pole axed on Monday, at best the vote will be 70 to 35 and he will be done.”

    Yes the vote maybe as you say or not. Rudd will be telling MP’s that they can’t win with Gillard and he is right, and that whatever she does they are certain losers, with him they have a chance. Then he may say, I am a changed man ….. and if I dont get elected, I may have another go in May and / or pull the pin now and force a by election. That will scare the MP’s big time, so they may cross over.

    I am sure Rudd has plan B, C and D. One will be a UN role or with some other foreign entity. I am sure Kim Beasley have called Gillard after his meeting with him in Washington this morning and told her of the nuclear option. That is why Gillards 930am press conference was so late and she was on edge.

    Gillard is a dead weight around the ALP, today, tomorrow and forever. Her memorial will be 95% all the bad things and 5% on being first women PM.

  200. Socratease

    Michael R James one does not have to be popular to win elections. Howard himself is an example but the biggest contemporary case would be Maggie Thatcher. I was in the UK and am amazed that outsiders believed and presumably still do, that she was “loved”. Not true. Not only was she never liked personally (of course she had a loyal fanatic core amongst conservatives)….

    You make a good general point, but I wouldn’t compare Gillard to Thatcher. With Thatcher what you saw was most definitely what you got. She could stand her own in any interview and speak her own mind with authority without a spinmeister rolling an autocue for her. That can’t be said of Gillard. No sir.

  201. Jimmy

    SB – Absolute rubbish, this isn’t even as bad as when Keating took on Hawke, Rudd will get pole axed on Monday, at best the vote will be 70 to 35 and he will be done.
    It is of so little consequence that I would prefer as always to discuss policy over politics.

    I find it strange that, a) you don’t have time to discuss policy but plenty to post your usual rubbish and b) you complain that someone is “spinning the discussion to something else” when you do it all the time, except you try to take from a substanital discussion of policy to something trivial and I am trying to do the reverse!

  202. shepherdmarilyn

    OK Alison, what has Gillard been doing well. Trying to flog babies to Malaysia, jailing babies as a security risk, trying to send them home to Afghanistan to die?

    Caving in to the miners and ripping off taxpayers of billions of mining wealth? Caving in to Clubs Australia and shafting Wilkie?

    Claiming she is the victim when she was in the front and centre when Beazley was dumped for Crean, then Crean for Latham, then Latham for Rudd then Rudd for herself?

    As Doug Cameron pointed out last night the agenda they are following is Rudd’s and Rudd’s alone.

    Taylor in the Herald knows that, she and David Uren wrote the book.

    But every “story” now being babbled about Rudd is just that, a story without a skerrick of evidence.

  203. Peter Ormonde

    Might have slipped through to the keeper Troofie but actually, poppet ,this isn’t a challenge yet. Gillard is bringing it on – as she should and as she always would.

    Rudd is far happier skulking around in shadows and leaking gossip than he is running for a ballot in the caucus – a ballot he knows he could not win – not until he’d done yet more damage.

    So watch slowly Troofie … all Rudd has done is resign as Foreign Minister in a fit of pique. Gillard is pushing him and his timetable. She is forcing him to move when he is not ready and while the Government is not completely demolished.

    She is not going to sit back letting Rudd eat into the government like an ulcer any more. I think they were all hoping he’d see sense, see a doctor, see another option in his life. Sadly not.

    Say hi to all at Menzies House.

  204. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    Its the darkest hours for the ALP since Whitlam was sacked, and all you can do is spin the discussion to something else.

    As I said before either you are working in the ALP or Hawker Brittain spin room or you should be. Bruce Hawker has around 12 spare desks in his office, send him your CV and I am sure you will be a shoe in.

  205. Socratease

    @Jimmy: Rubbish Rudd has been working behind the scenes to sabotage the govt, which means the public haven’t seen him being evil and have seen the damage it has done to Gillard.

    I credit the great unwashed with more sense.

    There have been plenty of articles in the media about Rudd describing him as every sort of b-stard, and there have been two well-reported biographies of him one of which was way less than flattering, yet the people polled still prefer him to Gillard. There’s no getting away from that basic fact.

  206. Socratease

    Rubbish Rudd has been working behind the scenes to sabotage the govt, which means the public haven’t seen him being evil and have seen the damage it has done to Gillard.

    I credit the great unwashed with more sense.

    There have been plenty of articles in the media about Rudd describing him as every sort of bastard, and there have been two well-reported biographies of him one of which was way less than flattering, yet the people polled still prefer him to Gillard. There’s no getting away from that basic fact.

  207. michael r james

    @MIKE FLANAGAN at 3:38 pm

    “And this in the face of a Murdoch driven hostile press gallery.”
    …………………………
    I think you can say a media 100% hostile to JG.
    Grattan outdoes Shanahan these days. Most other Fairfax reporters too. And of course BK. Her weaknesses are agreed but it has turned into a public stoning. To the point that I am wondering what she has done to the Press Gallery for them to so dislike her. I wish BK would spill the beans because nothing he writes recently (or today) justifies the negativity. Unless he really believes the Rudd-as-angel line, which seems improbable (ie. that someone like BK could believe it).

    I found her presser this morning to be one of her best. She is very good when speaking from the heart with passion, but terrible when reading from a script (usually over-prepared with talking points & spin & tone that curls the toes/fingernails on chalkboard). I only hope she keeps up with the aggressive or assertive approach with the journos. The office of PM needs more respect and her usual approach of being all smiley/touchy-feely is counterproductive.

    And BK needs to recover his perspective. First he could remember at least two times when the Costello-Howard seething hatred almost derailed the party, when it seemed like Costello would finally act, but of course he wimped out. (One of those times, at the time of APEC, the party almost brought a spill on itself but also wimped out, probably to their regret today.) Second, he could remember that this is precisely in the middle of a normal term so the mid-term blues is the norm (anyone wishing to argue with this please present your evidence). And third, one does not have to be popular to win elections. Howard himself is an example but the biggest contemporary case would be Maggie Thatcher. I was in the UK and am amazed that outsiders believed and presumably still do, that she was “loved”. Not true. Not only was she never liked personally (of course she had a loyal fanatic core amongst conservatives) but she never won 50% of the vote, ever. This is why some Brits don’t like la Streep’s characterization because it is too sympathetic and unrealistic; Thatcher was viscerally detested by a lot of people, including a lot who voted for her party. (An interesting question is, if it was a presidential system, how many votes would she have got?)
    What Gillard or any leader needs is respect and so she needs more of what she delivered today.

    For a bit more perspective Crikey readers might like to read this (from non-journalist Norman Abjorensen:
    [((inside.org.au/at-last-the-right-speech/))
    At last, the right speech
    Julia Gillard has finally explained the events of mid-2010,
    writes Norman Abjorensen, 23 February 2012
    .
    Rudd’s continuing approval rating with the public exemplifies the disconnect between the political arena and the electorate outside it: the public sees the smiling, articulate politician, cruelly cut down by a combination of faceless men and Lady Macbeth, whereas those on the inside know only too well the self-serving deviousness and organisational dysfunctionality that characterised Rudd’s period in office.
    That Gillard had never explained those fast moving events of mid-2010, and specifically her role in them, has cast her in the role of assassin, yet at her media conference in Adelaide today she laid out the process, and more importantly the reasons behind the leadership change. It was plausible, compelling and reasonable.]

  208. Jimmy

    SB – Why is it you prefer to slag off with your mate troothie than answer questions of policy?

  209. Suzanne Blake

    @ Geewizz

    Ly ing Gillard is radioactive today and will be in 100 years. She is unelectable.

    Too many li es to campaign against, stone faced li ar.

    Any halfwit with no policies could beat her and Labor know it and fear it.

  210. Kevin Herbert

    Rudd will NEVER BE PM again…EOS

  211. Jimmy

    Socratease – Rubbish Rudd has been working behind the scenes to sabotage the govt, which means the public haven’t seen him being evil and have seen the damage it has done to Gillard.

    Geewizz – Was Rudd the most popular PM when they got rid of him? No, so how was he “in his prime?”

    And the “non-challenge” statement obviously didn’t allow for Rudd to be so ego driven that he thinks he will win despite the fact that he is going to be beaten at least 2 to 1 if not considerably more.

  212. Sarah

    This sorry affair is not so much a soap opera as a Jacobean revenge tragedy. When it is all over we will see many Labor reputations, like bloodied corpses, littering the floor, to salve Rudd’s wounded pride. He is using his many talents to damage the Labor Party that he professes to care so much about.

  213. Socratease

    @Zut Alors: Rudd is the consummate politician ie: ego driven, ruthless, cunning – also a high achiever, smart, visionary and can turn on the charm.

    I agree with that, but I’d add that ordinary people like him. Given time and genuine authority, Gillard could be most of those things — except the bit about being liked.

    @jimmy: And how much influence has Rudds 18 month long dummy spit had on those negative numbers?

    None at all. Those polled have now seen both Rudd and Gillard in office and the majority of them still prefer Rudd, and that hasn’t changed since the day after he was dumped.

  214. GeeWizz

    [“I cannot accept that Rudd has acted against his party , its policies and its supporters to create mayhem for his own advancement . Crean , Hawke and Turnbull didn,t to name just a few didn,t do a dummy spit . Even deadly enemies such as Howard and Peacock refrained from public chaos during their long years of rivalry .”]

    Yeah but none of these people were the most popular prime minister in the history of Australia and knifed in the back in their prime.

    Gillards a joke, if the Labor stick with her then she’s gonna get done slowly by Rudd.

    BTW Petseys, hows that non-challenge you were telling us about coming along?

  215. Jimmy

    Geomac – ” can accept those machinations as part of the game . I cannot accept that Rudd has acted against his party , its policies and its supporters to create mayhem for his own advancement .”And then for him to stand up and say HE is the victim, that is just the cherry on top!

  216. geomac

    ZUT ALORS
    I thought Labor went the way of the libs somewhat when they denied Crean the chance to go to an election . Whatever the media may say Rudd himself has been as active as the likes of Peacock , Howard , Fraser or Keating in doing what they can to attain power . I can accept those machinations as part of the game . I cannot accept that Rudd has acted against his party , its policies and its supporters to create mayhem for his own advancement . Crean , Hawke and Turnbull didn,t to name just a few didn,t do a dummy spit . Even deadly enemies such as Howard and Peacock refrained from public chaos during their long years of rivalry .

  217. GeeWizz

    [“Picked by the Faceless Men, Gillard represents the Ugly Face of Labour.”]

    She’s the Pinnochio of Australian Politics.

    Described as wooden by her collegues, a puppet by her opponents, a compulsive non-truth-teller(like that one crikey filter?) and has the nose to prove it. Built by the factions… I guess they’d be Geppetto in the story.

    I bet when she grows up she wants to be a REALLL Prime Minister as well.

  218. Sabre Bleu

    Picked by the Faceless Men, Gillard represents the Ugly Face of Labour.

  219. zut alors

    Rudd is the consummate politician ie: ego driven, ruthless, cunning – also a high achiever, smart, visionary and can turn on the charm.

    Gillard and her now lippy front bench colleagues were complicit in riding Rudd’s coat tails when, reliant on their own talents, they were unable to swing an election win in 2007 without him. Don’t tell me they thought he was an angel back then, don’t even suggest they had no indication he could be difficult. So eager were they to sit to the right of Speaker’s chair that they made their collective pact to support warts ‘n all Rudd – until they decided they could do ‘better’.

    Let them wear whatever damage Rudd now wreaks on them. If it’s the end of the Labor party then perhaps that isn’t such a bad thing – in the last couple years it hasn’t resembled the true ALP anyway.

  220. mikeb

    @Suzanne Blake
    You might not have realised but the carbon tax hasn’t commenced yet – but despite this it somehow manages to have impacted on “trade, jobs, GDP etc”. An easy mistake to make seeing that most of the uneducated rely on what they are told by the news ltd media, Bolt, Jones and Gina Inc.

  221. Jimmy

    Geewizz – Raising the level of discussion once again!!

    SB – Missed my question?!!! I have only asked about 2 dozen times over the past 2 weeks but now that you have responded let’s have a look at what you have said.

    Abbott plans to scrap tha carbon tax while keeping the pension & family tax benfit increases and the personal income tax cuts that go along with it, he also plans to inefficiently hand out billions of dollars to big business for his direct action policy how does cutting govt revenue while dramatically increasing govt expenditure add up to good economics?

    And if he wants to reduce the tax burden on companies why increase company tax to pay for paid parental leave for the rich? Or why remove small business tax concessions to remove the MRRT?

  222. GeeWizz

    Sorry that was my best impression of a Labor hack p1ssing and moaning about Dillard being an atrocious failure and blaming it on everyone else

  223. Mike Flanagan

    Bernard ;
    In your assessment of Rudd you seem to forget that at anytime he has been successful Wayne Swan has been at his side. Rudd claims that he should be credited for the GFC reaction by our government. He does have some claim due to him but it was Swan and the boffins at treasury that brought the fine details to the table. As Parkinson said in a recent speech it had been a well developed position paper by treasury ‘to go hard, to go consumer and to go early’
    Rudd’s leadership accomplishment are really only identified in his ability to be a Beattie style media tart and translate that as a success at the ballot box.
    As a FM he could have excelled but as a PM he couldn’t deliver, nor maintain a cohesive cabinet.
    PM Gillard has offered substance of leadership, a cohesian in policy and the fortitude to attend the challenges that are engulfing western democracies throughout the world. And this in the face of a Murdoch driven hostile press gallery.
    The alternative of Abbott, Hockey and Robb are too horrific to contemplate

  224. GeeWizz

    [“Geewizz – And how much influence has Rudds 18 month long dummy spit had on those negative numbers?”]

    It’s all wuddies and the blo0dy wedia’s fault!

    Wittle Julia’s not to bwames for her bad polling, what wif the hand over de heart committment to no carwbon twax. Poor widdle Julia

  225. kennethrobinson2

    I think this has made politics interesting, it just shows what a horrible mob they ALL are

  226. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy

    Sorry, missed your question.

    Abbotts policy of not having a carbon tax would mean that Australia would not have the MOST EXPENSIVE carbon tax in the world, for NO impact on global temperatures.

    We are pricing outselves out of trade, jobs, GDP etc.

    How is that for starters, I dont have time to list anymore

  227. Microseris

    The current leadership options in the two majors (with the possible exception of Turnbull) must be close to an all time low point for Australian politics.

  228. Sabre Bleu

    Concise. A good Keane man.

  229. geomac

    For a parson : person

  230. geomac

    JIMMY
    You have saved me the trouble of saying much the same thing . Rudd it is obvious leaked to Oakes and created havoc for two weeks of the election campaign . Even the fact he wouldn,t face a party spill says it all . Rather than accept his rejection he played the martyr then and now . For a parson claiming a wish to end the soap opera he has been the producer , director and co star in that soap . The Orson Welles of soapies .

  231. botswana bob

    Swan has clearly revealed why he is a one-man skill shortage. Did he actually graduate from high school, and if he did is it because classmate Kevin did his homework for him???

  232. Jimmy

    You know Suzanne I have asked this quetsion repeatedly but you and you band of fools never give me an ansswer, in what way are Tony Abbott’s policies better for the economy than the ALP’s?

    Instead of going on with your inane blather why not tackle something a bit more meaty?

  233. Suzanne Blake

    @ Jimmy, Peter Ormonde and the 100s of other lefties here.

    Here is your chance, apply now

    nowhiring.com.au/424936+job+Prime+Minister+of+Australia+ACT.aspx?tw_p=twt

  234. SBH

    “It wasn’t Rudd who failed to nail Tony Abbott, the biggest policy flake to lead a major party since Alexander Downer, over economic management.”

    No, that honour goes the the Australian Media who appear blind to any idiocy coming from the opposition.

  235. Jimmy

    Geewizz – And how much influence has Rudds 18 month long dummy spit had on those negative numbers?

  236. ALISON APLIN

    I beg to differ with you Bernard Keane. I am a strong supporter of Julia Gillard and am and have been disgusted with the vitriol that she has had to endure from people who disagree with her. The outburst that has been directed towards Kevin Rudd has given him a taste of what Ms Gillard has received by the media and the opposition. The low level that too many Australians have dropped surely is an indictment on the whole of Australian society. Pick yourselves up and show a bit of respect!
    Kevin Rudd may not have been the sole perpetrator. He is such a manipulator I feel sure that he has had others, like Kim Carr running around doing as he bids so that he can say that he didn’t do any of the things of which he has been accused.
    The media have to mellow their attitude. They have become worse than the Opposition in their manner towards the government. Whatever you/they feel, remember that you are criticising the head of our government and she deserves better.

  237. shepherdmarilyn

    Kevin Rudd is not like the media and some of his worthless colleagues go on about. Those who have never met the man should not listen to their crap.

    I think the stand up comedy line comes from Gillard’s bleat “he didn’t tell me”.

    They are narky with Rudd because he has the brains they lack.

  238. GeeWizz

    Last Newspoll before the Faceless men rolled Kevin Rudd:

    Labor TPP: 52%

    Labor Primary Vote: 42%

    Gillards latest polling:

    Labor TPP: 45%

    Labor Primary Vote: 30%

    Labors faceless men know how to pick em

  239. Jimmy

    The assertionin the article that Gillard’s mistakes are the issue not Rudd’s behaviour gloss over the fact that, the reshuffle would not have been necessary had Rudd not being agitating, the ALP could well have won enough seats to govern in their own right had Rudd not been leaking (removing the necessity for the Wilkie deal and the Carbon tax backflip), the largely irrelevant performance at the conference would not have been exaggerated under the “leader under pressure” prism and the policy achievements might of been able to get some sort of media coverage had they not always been spoiled by some leak or another.

    Rudd’s behavior since being demoted have been appalling and the fact he has enough ego to still run when he has so few numbers and blame the “faceless men” for his resignation when he is the one who has been unwilling to put his name to his behind the scenes actions, demonstrates why Gillard is the leader.

  240. mikeb

    Let’s not kid ouselves. K Rudd manufactured a public image for himself and was only tolerated in the ALP because he was the one person who could deliver Government. It was no secret amongst insiders that he was almost universally loathed by staff and colleagues and opponents and it was only a matter of time before things exploded. Yes Gillard has been a disappontment and yes she had lacked a vision – or at least she might have had a vision but lacked the b*lls to follow it through. Quite frankly, I’d rather the ALP push through and at least try to retain some dignity in defeat by ignoring Rudd’s ego-driven bid for office, and then try to make a difference in their final months. Whether another manufactured image in Abbott can be a success in the job will remain to be seen. I’m fearful however that Abbott and Hockey et al are falling into the same trap as the ALP in being willing to do anything to gain power.

  241. John64

    “Labor’s problem isn’t Rudd. It’s Gillard”

    No, no, no, no! It’s Tony Abbott! Didn’t you get today’s memo?

    … or yesterday’s memo?

    … or the day before that’s memo?

    … or in fact any memo the Labor party have issued? All their problems are caused by Tony Abbott. In fact this whole leadership spill is because of Tony Abbott!

    Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott.

  242. Ugliness

    “…whatever awards exist for political spray of the year…”

    Surely that would be “The Latham”?

Leave a comment

Advertisement

https://www.crikey.com.au/2012/02/23/delusion-dysfunction-and-the-true-history-of-kevin/ == https://www.crikey.com.au/free-trial/==https://www.crikey.com.au/subscribe/

Show popup

Telling you what the others don't. FREE for 21 days.

Free Trial form on Pop Up

Free Trial form on Pop Up
  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.