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Jan 13, 2012

NYT debate: what would it cost to end he-said-she-said journalism?

The New York Times has raised the issue of he-said-she-said journalism. It should be discussed here, too, but it's more complicated than media critics think.


The New York Times’ public editor caused an online storm overnight when he asked readers whether the paper should become a “truth vigilante”. Putting aside the loaded headline, Arthur Brisbane raised whether Times reporters should challenge facts asserted by people they are covering. He gave two examples — the first about Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas claiming to have “misunderstood” his financial disclosure obligations, the second about Mitt Romney’s contention that Barack Obama has “apologised for America”, which he has never done.

Brisbane’s point was that op-ed columnists have the freedom to challenge such assertions, and that the Times has been running a sidebar to presidential nomination stories that fact-checks claims by candidates, but such analysis was not currently part of the straight reportage of the Times, and he wanted to know whether it should be.

The furious reaction from a lot of readers (see the comments) seemed partly misdirected — Brisbane was not asking if the Times should fact-check at all, but whether it should form a core component of straight reporting (he later complained about this misinterpretation). Media critic and academic Jay Rosen, a long-time faultfinder of what he calls “the view from nowhere”, quickly weighed in to paint Brisbane as “naive” for ignoring what he claimed had been a long-term shift away from “truth telling” as the No.1 media priority. Washington Post blogger Greg Sargent gave a more nuanced reaction suggesting that, at the very least, newspapers shouldn’t be in effect co-conspirators in lies.

This morning, the Times’ executive editor joined the debate, suggesting the paper was already engaged in extensive fact-checking. Clearly, many of her readers don’t agree.

Brisbane’s question raises issues every bit as relevant to Australia, and particularly to political journalism, as they are to the US media industry.

Our own media industry, and particularly the press, isn’t faring as poorly as its US counterpart. But it has a major trust deficit with the community. All forms of commercial media went backwards in terms of levels of trust in 2011. “A lot” or “some” trust in the most trusted form of commercial media, newspapers, fell below 50%. Only the ABC maintained or strengthened its already-high levels of trust.

Like in the US, there is incessant criticism of “he-said-she-said” journalism (aka Rosen’s “view from nowhere”) here, where accurate reportage of politicians’ talking points, and balance through the inclusion of “both sides of the debate”, is equated with quality journalism, when there is no effort made to inform readers of whether statements may be accurate, or whether the “balance” sought reflects reality (see the climate change “debate”, most obviously). The uncritical recycling of press releases, churnalism, is its close cousin.

None of this is obviously a problem for an outlet such as The Daily Telegraph, where journalists simply invent or grotesquely misrepresent stories for the purposes of the paper’s campaign against Labor and the Greens. But for the rest of the media, which claims to prize not merely professional integrity but quality journalism, it is. It’s not necessarily as simple as it might appear to be. After all, the ABC is so highly-trusted despite being probably the most visible home of he-said-she-said reportage as well as quality television and radio journalism.

But it’s merely to state the bleeding obvious that he-said-she-said is deeply embedded in our journalistic culture. It even shapes the way media advisers do their work. I found myself blacklisted by a Coalition press adviser, with whom I’d hitherto had perfectly good relations, because I refused to run his shadow minister’s claim that Julia Gillard had made a particular statement without evidence. When he produced the “evidence”, it was nothing of the sort and I told him as much. This prompted him to declare that I was only a “Canberra blogger” anyway and that he wouldn’t deal with me any more. Touché.

While such thin skins aren’t necessarily surprising among media advisers charged with defending their bosses, he clearly expected that his shadow minister’s statement would be run unquestioned — it was worthy of reporting merely because it was asserted, even if it wasn’t true, and it wasn’t my job to insist on evidence before running it.

The complicating factor when criticising he-said-she-said, however, is resources. Should a radio reporter, rushing to air coverage of a press conference, instead devote an hour to researching every claim made by the politician at the microphone? More to the point, what would her producer say? What about an audience now accustomed to instantaneous coverage of everything? In an era of ever-more constrained media resources, time spent fact-checking is now at a premium. People love to bag journalists, especially on social media, and it’s frequently merited, but what’s missed is that journalists are placed under ever greater pressure from editors and producers to meet ever faster deadlines, in an ever greater number of formats, with fewer and fewer resources.

I asked Stephen Feneley, a veteran journalist since moved into media consulting who continues to cast a critical eye over journalism on Twitter, for his take.

“The ‘he said, she said’ approach to journalism, where errors of fact go unchecked, where politicians are allowed to get away with either rehashing old news or shifting position on policy, is done under the cover of objectivity when what it really amounts to is lack of rigour,” he said. “To be fair to individual journalists, the tightening of newsroom budgets leaves less time for research and critical thinking. Most reporters are reduced to following the bouncing balls instead of identifying the forces that made the balls bounce. Many journalists would like to focus on the how and the why, but that costs money, so there’s little enthusiasm on the part of their editors & the owners of their mastheads to support that kind of scrutiny.

“The how and the why of journalism is left more and more to the oped writers, who unburdened by any obligation to make an objective assessment of the facts, or to even bother with the facts, can commit to the keyboard whatever crosses their feeble minds.”

The key objection raised by Brisbane in his original piece relates to selectivity: which facts does a journalist rebut, particularly if they’re time or resource-constrained? What if you rebut some facts but not others, rebut one politician’s claims but not the equally glaring nonsense of their opponent? “Even if journalists did have the time to be more critical, you would never overcome the issue of truth being selective,” said Feneley. “Individual scribes will each have their own take on what facts need correcting. But at least that’s better than no scrutiny at all.”

There’s also the simple reality now that fact-checking is occurring anyway. Rare is the false claim by a politician or spinner now that won’t be picked up and torn apart online. But fact-checking on a little-trafficked blog, or on Twitter, won’t match fact-checking in the originating report, particularly when that will be viewed far more widely in the community than online-only material. Greater dialogue between journalists and social media participants, making stories more of an online conversation and less about authoritative pronouncements, partly addresses the resourcing issue, but alters the role of mainstream media journalists in a way many are uncomfortable with.

Nonetheless, given the community’s very clear trust issues with commercial media, the debate Brisbane initiated deserves to be had here as well.



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24 thoughts on “NYT debate: what would it cost to end he-said-she-said journalism?

  1. Jackol

    First: I think it has already been discussed to death here and elsewhere that the whole notion of traditional Newspaper or even radio/TV journalists being “first” at breaking news is already laughable. Breaking news is well and truly in the social media sphere hours before any of the traditional media can “break” a story. If this is going to continue to be the case (and it is), then anyone calling themselves a serious journalist should simply abandon the apparent high value placed on being “first” to break a story.

    If you’re not going to be first, and you aren’t, then what do you bring to the table? Traditional bread and butter journalism – checking facts, providing context, getting alternative/independent viewpoints. Accept the fact that your report is a few hours behind the “breaking wave” on social media and learn to value the quality of your work. When people want to know what really happened, they should be able to get it from what you, as a journalist, have compiled.

    More importantly, as Bernard Keane briefly visits above, quality journalistic outlets are outlets of record. People will quote and reference this work as a way of backing up their arguments etc. What you publish matters, and it matters that it is accurate, in context, not distorted, etc.

    Secondly: the question of constraint on time to fact check everything – first, as described above, that time constraint should not be the driving force, but secondly perhaps there can be some simple code of conduct that any statements taken from politicians or other vested interests where the contents have not been checked are simply labelled as such. ie:

    Julia Gillard responded that as far as she was concerned, the moon was made of green cheese. This assertion has not been checked in the course of putting this report together.

    Or some recognized shorthand for the above (sic?).

    This would mean that the statements provided are published/recorded in a timely manner, but anyone following up on the article will understand that it was published uncritically and what would otherwise be checked material was left unchecked for the purposes of timeliness.

  2. Down and Out of Sài Gòn

    Thank you for covering this, Bernard. Just pausing on one paragraph:

    I found myself blacklisted by a Coalition press adviser, with whom I’d hitherto had perfectly good relations, because I refused to run his shadow minister’s claim that Julia Gillard had made a particular statement without evidence. When he produced the “evidence”, it was nothing of the sort and I told him as much. This prompted him to declare that I was only a “Canberra blogger” anyway and that he wouldn’t deal with me any more. Touché.

    I think it’s in the public interest for people to know the name of this “press advisor”, would it not? It sounds like his job is to get his shadow minister’s lies in the news. But I guess that would be …. unprofessional.

  3. Joel

    It seems to me that if a politician/spokesperson is busily spreading falsehoods or lies, that should be a story (the fact that they are lying, not the lies, I should say). Many politicians have their own blogs, twitter feeds, newsletters etc, and if I want to read whatever they’re spreading about, I can read those. Independent news sources are only useful if they do actually add some value – such as by fact checking, adding context, and so forth.

  4. Space Kidette


    I love the way the 24hr news cycle is blamed for the lack of rigour in fact checking!

    Greg Jericho, coined it yesterday in his Drum article. “You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts”. If the rigour in fact checking is not there, you may as well go to your local library, pull out any random fiction title and call it news.

    The harsh reality is what we have now is not news and more often than not it doesn’t rate as news worthy. ‘News’ today doesn’t relate even the basic facts of an event any more, just the juicy, salacious, ad-selling innuendo and lies, as the steak has been thrown under the bus in haste to chase the more rewarding sizzle.

    Let’s be honest, the news today is nothing more than press release regurgitation until such time as at least the basic facts are comfirmed and related it should not be shown the light of day and given that the average peep can confirm basic facts, historical references and see the pressers for themselves, all in under five minutes, there is no excuse for journalists not to do the same.

  5. C@tmomma

    I believe there lies a solution in another arm of the media and creative arts, plays and movies, but most especially, documentaries.
    As they would never put out into the public realm an unedited and non-factual piece of work, as far as it goes, and in the Post Truth Age that sometimes is not very far at all, however, the best of this work is polished before it is presented, and is the result of a collaborative effort.
    So, would it not be the simplest solution, to reorientate the way news is delivered to the community and set up teams, who work together to get the stories out, to the deadline, and who have defined roles? Ergo, the Press Conference recorder and interrogator, or the Parliamentary reporter; the after-the-event fact checker of the claims made or evidence put up to back up a case put by a politician or lobbyist; the gatherer of opposing viewpoints; plus the writer of the subsequent story, who gets fed the facts & quotes, weighs them up in the balance using their discretion, and then writes the story for the public.
    I’m sure, in time, this could become a well-oiled machine that could work to deadline for the benefit of the community at large. The Op Ed pages would then obviously be left to the opinionated, if you were interested in reading that sort of thing.

  6. david

    Re being blacklisted by a Coalition Press Adviser…name and shame Bernard, name the w–ker, that type needs to be exposed.


    Let’s remind ourselves that the New York Times published the pro-war propaganda of Judith Miller who also regurgitated the WMD’s in Iraq baloney to the gullible public at a time when some real journalism, ie fact checking, could possibly have impacted on the lives of millions, and maybe even saved thousands of them.

    Better late than never, we could say.

    That allowing journalists to create public opinion with distortions of the truth handed to them by governments or ‘authorities’ can clearly have very dire consequences.

  8. klewso

    If they can use the earnest aegis of belonging to the fourth estate, to justify their actions, and can go to lengths to “investigate” the veracity of utterances of members of the party they don’t like (and/or produce “experts” to counter any such claims), to embarrass them, why not for the party they support professionally (in the positive way they write them up) – in the same “interests of truth”?

  9. klewso

    That’s not to mention an agenda and continuing narrative being run by a particular media organisation that could be intent on regime change through it’s influence on voter perceptions of “fitness to govern” – especially if they virtually have “the market place” to themselves?

  10. David Coady

    The idea that political journalism should aspire to “balance” (i.e. reporting what the two sides of the political establishment think and leaving it at that) rather than reporting what the evidence indicates to be true is a blight on the profession. Can you imagine a sports journalist approaching their job that way (i.e. reporting what the two sides think happened rather than what actually happened)? Of course it’s to be expected from an establishment outlet like the New York Times, but it’s a shame to see Crikey buying into that crap.

  11. klewso

    Elections/government are decided on “perception”.
    “We” don’t vote for sport?

  12. David Coady

    Don’t know what you’re getting at Klewso. The idea that journalists of any kind should try to report the truth to the best of their ability shouldn’t be controversial, and it’s an indictment of the establishment media that it is. Neither the NYT nor any other establishment media outlet will report the easily verified fact that Romney (or any other establishment politician) lied (or said something untrue). And this isn’t because their attached to some high-minded principle of balance, but because they want to retain access and are afraid of being thought of as biased. In other words their venal and gutless.

  13. David Coady

    Sorry, “they’re venal and gutless”

  14. Lyn Gain

    ‘He said, she said’ is exactly the issue that I wrote to the SMH Readers Editor about a few months ago: “In today’s Herald (P.7), Matt Wade reports claims by the NSW Treasurer uncritically, that the carbon tax will cost NSW hundreds of millions of dollars, despite the fact that the Herald itself had already exposed this claim as untrue in earlier articles. Perhaps you might consider encouraging the Herald to work towards a new policy – when government spokespeople (state or federal, whatever brand) make a claim that reporters know to be false, rather than just perpetuating this misinformation to further mislead the uninitiated, journalists could be encouraged to provide a critical balancing sentence or phrase.” Judy Prisk said that this was the sort of issue she had hoped she would be working on, but I noted that her brief appeared to allow her just to bring it to the attention of the individual journalist, rather than make any broader contribution to SMH policy. I think Jackol’s got a good idea here.

  15. Dogs breakfast

    Lyn and David bring up good points. Too often though I am left wondering if the journalist covering the issue actually knows as much about it as I do.

    So often, obvious questions are not asked. “In what way will the carbon tax cost jobs? Whose jobs? Will there be no jobs created by the carbon tax? Were the purveyors of this information the “Coal Forever, Wind Power Never Association? Do you think their ‘study may have been a little ‘conflicted’?”

    Politicians get away with making up absolute rubbish, but they aren’t challenged at the time, when it is important. They don’t care if there is an article by Ross Gittins a week later debunking their stupidity, they have already got 3 front page leads plus photos in the Daily Telegraph. Journalists need to ask the questions publicly, at the time, based on a sound scepticism.

    So whent he pollies come out with rubbish factoids (which if you are in the business you should be recognising straight away) you should be challenging them there and then.

    But it’s all to hard, and journalists would have to be genuinely intelligent rather than just opinionated and/or telegenic.

    Tony Abbott’s entire strategy has been based on saying crap that gets the salivating dogs of the press barking their headlines and columns, only to recant 3 days later when someone points out the obvious, i.e. that would be bad policy!

    I’m a little disappointed, if that isn’t too harsh.

  16. A. N. Onymus

    I think all of Jackol’s ideas were good — in fact I’d say they were all excellent. Can we get you in a position to implement them, Jackol?

  17. Edward James

    Lazy work product like this which I found in the smelly on line and commented on twice now ! Why is it when this days old Andrew Clennell and Steve Lewis Telegraph exclusive by line
    makes it clear to many readers MP Craig Thomson has told them he wont make a decision about running until the police investigation is finished. And the same story tells readers “when his endorsement to run again for the seat of Dobell in a fortnight is looking very doubtful” Are the readers being told? Craig Thomson knows something about when the Police investigation will end, or are the political journalist Clennell and Lewis just not doing their jobs properly?

    While the bought and paid for journalist may not actually be told what and how to think and what to write, they all no doubt value their pay packet. I sometimes wonder are they really as deaf dumb and blind as so many of our politicians. I often reflect on the expression the old premier JBP from Queensland often used, feed the chook’s. Being told by some journalist out side the CWA Hall at Woy Woy during the Federal Labor preselection process between Belinda Neal and Deborah ONiell. That my years of published stories with photos and naming names, identifying abuse of power and systemic corruption are libelous / defamatory is sad because these professionals know their opinion is nothing until a court confirms what till that time is alleged. It is strange that my allegations have been outstanding and unchallenged by named AG’s, Premiers and Party leaders I am not alone in understanding media and political allsorts are team players when they identify someone who is trying to expose them and get rid of them for the lies they promulgate. What surprises me is only one elected rep in over ten years has stood up in sitting council and asked how is it possible for Mr James to regularly identify our Mayor and Deputy Mayor as liars in print in the Peninsula News and nothing is done about? Edward James http://bit.ly/EJ_PNewsAds 0243419140

  18. Jean

    I liked the bit early in the article about a newspaper editor complaining about being “misinterpreted”.

    Folks, get real.

    Newspapers are for training puppies to pee somewhere appropriate.
    Radio is for making noise to wake you up when your alarm goes off.
    TV is, as Noel Coward said, for appearing on, not for watching.
    And the internet is for whackers, ratbags and whingers to make sweeping statements on in the misguided belief that people will be affected by what they write 🙂

  19. David Hand

    I think this issue is wrapped up with the tendency the media has for editorialising within its news coverage.

    For example news headlines like “inflation fears as dollar falls!” one day and “unemployment fears as dollar rises!” the next, contain within them a strong editorial bias that passes for objective news in 2011.

    It is one of my grizzles about the global warming debate, that objective facts are so hard to distill from the cacophany of voices all shouting things that can mostly not be checked. Most of the trouble is caused by people making guesses about what might happen in the future and then stating it as a received scientific fact merely because the projection is logical and based on factual history. I say that as someone who is convinced about the fact of AGW.

    I think the heart of the problem is that the 24 hour news cycle has led the news media into a culture where the story is everything and the facts can look after themselves. In time, as their reputation falls, a better model will emerge.

  20. Edward James

    I think many journalist see their career path tied to politics. They know being able to hang words on a line in a way which attracts and influences readers. Is a skill which can be marketed to shonky politicians who have become comfortable mishandling the truth when dealing with their constituents. The type of media we are being served up has a lot to do with time poor citizens not interested in overtly rejecting the lies, and the people who are often paid to promulgate them, including journalist who have moved on and joined the dark side with our taxpayer funded political allsorts. I often pay to name and shame politicians in my local paper. I believe people are too frightened to stand up and be identified rejecting the crap we are served up as “good governance” by the full spectrum of our elected representatives at all three levels Local, State and Federal Government. I have come back to respect and subscribe to Crikey.com.au because I have faith in it as an excellent soapbox for people willing to be public trust journalist. Crikey.com.au is certainly much more effective for influencing change than standing for years outside the NSW Parliament in Macquarie Street Sydney for up to eighteen hours a day. I believe, we the peoples do have the power to shake the base of politics. We are beginning to understand our politicians are themselves a noisy minority. Which have become comfortable with their expectation based on experience we will continue to accept them and their taxpayer funded minions, many hired away from print media. Lying and disrespecting us. Edward James http://bit.ly/EJ_PNewsAds

  21. Filth Dimension

    [“I found myself blacklisted by a Coalition press adviser, with whom I’d hitherto had perfectly good relations, because I refused to run his shadow minister’s claim that Julia Gillard had made a particular statement without evidence. When he produced the “evidence”, it was nothing of the sort and I told him as much. This prompted him to declare that I was only a “Canberra blogger” anyway and that he wouldn’t deal with me any more. Touché.”]

    This would be better “news” if Bernard provided some “evidence” that this actually happened.

  22. Edward James

    I have published my allegations and put evidence in front of many readers. The challenge is for people who present themselves in public as fair dinkum about working for honest open government to at least begin asking questions in public forums. About why so many of our elected representatives are perceived to be comfortable with the systemic corruption and abuse of power which surrounds their political activities? We see failed premier Nathan Rees popping up on TV with plenty to say now. But we have not forgotten his performance as Nathan (scurried like a rat) Rees for the way he bolted back to Premier Iemma, when Swansea citizens raised questions about he as Chief of staff knew about Milton (the horrible) Orkopulous. Nathan is another politician along with John Robertson John Hatzistergos and others who get a spray in one of my ads in the Peninsula News. http://bit.ly/EJ_PNewsAds
    I do not understand why when my local council has been accused by me in print of misleading the State Coroner during his investigation into the deaths of five people at Piles Creek. No one seems to care! Edward James

  23. Son of foro

    This whole dismal state of affairs can be summed up in two words: Patrick Lion.

  24. klewso

    Too much of the media (with it’s influence) has prioritised “advertorials/entertainment” over “news”, and the remnants chase the lead they set.


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