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Mayne: let’s have a pokies debate on maximum hourly losses

When Julia Gillard and Andrew Wilkie publicly committed to a few short sentences on pokies reform in September 2010, who would ever have thought it would generate so much media interest and political debate?

For five days now we’ve had another burst of coverage ranging between Nick Xenophon’s big prediction of failure in The Sunday Mail, to Alan Kohler’s column on Business Spectator stating the internet will kill the pokies anyway, and even an editorial in The Australian Financial Review today.

What will happen when we finally see some actual legislation?

It was the Prime Minister who quite deliberately triggered this latest wave of publicity but visiting Wilkie in Hobart and meeting him at the city’s most swish waterfront hotel — which happens to be owned by Federal Hotels, the company with a lucrative monopoly over pokies and casinos in Tasmania. Talk about provocative.

The coverage has subsequently waxed and waned on the predictable media language of whether Wilkie has back-flipped and whether Gillard wants to dud him.

Crikey led with Bernard Keane’s latest attack on mandatory pre-commitment yesterday and more than 100 comments later it is fair to say the community remains highly engaged on the subject.

Keane is normally a great defender of the Productivity Commission but he ignored their endorsement of mandatory pre-commitment as a layer on top of a maximum $1 bet and instead lined up with the pokies industry campaign when he described mandatory pre-commitment as “an intrusive, unjustified interference with individuals’ rights”.

If influential commentators like Keane won’t even get behind an evidence-based proposal with majority community support, then it all looks too hard.

So why isn’t the government and the opposition embracing the preferred simpler option of Wilkie, Xenophon and the Greens in pushing for reductions in the maximum rate of hourly losses that pokies addicts can suffer?

While reducing the maximum NSW bet of $10 to $1 in a single move would hit revenue to a degree, it is technically very easy to phase in reductions. Then again, New Zealand recently cut its maximum bet to $NZ2.50 and it hasn’t had much of an impact.

Victoria seamlessly moved from $10 to $5 three years ago with barely a whimper from the industry. That said, Victorian pokies losses initially fell by $100 million to $2.6 billion in 2009-10, but then jumped again to $2.65 billion in 2010-11 and are likely to hit a new record this financial year.

Given that almost 90% of gamblers would remain below a $1 maximum bet, it is hard to see how the industry would run an effective campaign against it, especially if they were given a few years to phase it in.

NSW and South Australia both presently have the highest maximum bets in clubs and pubs of $10, but James Packer’s Crown Casino in Melbourne is particularly privileged with some of its public floor machines allowing $50 maximum bets.

The maximum bet language can get confusing because the other key variable is the so-called spin-rate regulating the speed in which bets can be placed. In NSW this is unregulated, which is how you can theoretically lose more than $10,000 an hour on a $10 machine. Victoria requires a gap of 2.14 seconds between each bet so at $5 a bet that’s a maximum loss of $8411 in an hour, assuming every punt was lost.

Given Barry O’Farrell’s NSW government enjoys such a huge majority over its demoralised Labor opposition, it is puzzling why they can’t even match Victoria’s tame regulations to at least look like they are contributing some effort to the goal of ending the embarrassment of Australians being the world’s biggest gamblers in per capita terms.

While pokies are most embedded in NSW, even long-serving Packer family lobbyist Graham Richardson now admits Bob Carr’s government was wrong to allow pokies into pubs.

If everyone agrees it is terrible to see more than 100,000 Australians struggling to manage addictions to high-intensity poker machines, the simplest language to adopt going forward should focus on the maximum hourly loss on any machine. Wilkie, Xenophon and Costello say it should be $120 an hour.

OK, so who in club, pub or casino land is going to argue if Gillard comes out with a legislative proposal for a maximum hourly loss of $200, with a carve-out for the high-roller areas of casinos? The implementation would be no different to requiring new tyres with more grip whenever your old wheels need replacing. In other words, give venues three to five years to progressively switch the machines over.

The key performance indicator of such a move has to be focused on the staggering $12 billion of annual losses that Australians incur when playing the pokies. That figure must get back below $10 billion within the next couple of years and then head down towards something more socially tolerable, such as between $6-8 billion.

Yes, that would require new business models for some pubs or clubs, but so what? The clubs industry as a whole is carrying very little debt and has literally billions of dollars in accumulated reserves, mostly land and buildings, courtesy of not being able to distribute pokies profits to members. Pubs have flourished for decades without pokies and ANZ, the largest pokies venue lender in Australia, is more than capable of swallowing a modest hair cut on some over-leveraged and over-capitalised venues.

The same goes for Woolworths and Wesfarmers, the two largest pub owners in Australia.

49
  • 1
    Schnappi
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Will wait to see what is agreed between Wilkie and the PM,with a media frenzy at present most imply nothing is going to happen and the PM has already reneged also stated by abbott as usual without facts,and certainly have not mentioned the intrests of problem gamblers,apparently a good media beatup is more value than human misery.
    Clubs have only shown greed and political manipulation.

  • 2
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Unfortunately very few of the 100 comments on Keane’s piece yesterday were on topic, I being 1 of the off topic posters.

    If reducing maximum bets in Aotearoa New Zealand and Victoria haven’t cut gambling losses, why would it be worth introducing?

    … swallowing a modest hair cut’!! How about wearing a modest hair cut?

  • 3
    C Trevor
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Mayne: let’s have a pokies debate on maximum hourly losses”. What would you suggest next? A debate maybe on hour many standard drinks is permitted to have a day for everyone to protect alcoholics from themselves? Followed by a debate on how many calories a person is able to consume each day to protect all Australians from obesity? We could go on and on with this couldn’t we. ;-)

  • 4
    Edward James
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Clubs and pubs have taken up pokies, because they sell themselves as a source of good consistent robotic revenue collection. Labor Parties Bob Carr permitted this blight into our community. By the time this argument is over most addicted people will be playing pokies on line! Edward James

  • 5
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Ly ing Gillard leaked this on purpose, so as to trickle feed the media and reaction. She can guage the voter mood and change as needed.

    Thats why she screwed up so badly with the carbon tax.

    1. I don’t believe she or the ALP remembered he TV comment in heat of last week of campaign.

    2. When she released it in Feb 2011, and the heat started, she quickly swung around within days from calling it a carbon tax, to a ‘price on carbon’ .

    She wont make that mistake again soon.

  • 6
    Schnappi
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    @SUZANNE BLAKE,
    As usual you are off topic with the carbon tax as was abbott in SA ,could not answer question so ranted about carbon tax,shows lack of comprehension by both of you.
    Anyway Carbon Price is correct then in 3 years becomes an ETS,it was abbott in a YOUTUBE Video who said a Carbon TAX is the sensible way to go,suggest you watch the video,shows abbott is the Carbon Tax Liar.

  • 7
    Bill Hilliger
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    @SB I’d like to see ly ing Julia be held to account by your “no nonsense, I have no policy or idea” Tony Abbott. Tony, because he is so upset by the latest Julia Gillard about face should now try and introduce legislation to bring about the Andrew Wilkie mandatory pre-commitment on poker machine gambling law. That would really p*ss Julia off, don’t you think? We already know from the pokie industry that mandatory pre-commitment won’t work, so they’ll happy for the legislation to go ahead - afterall, if it doesn’t work it won’t affect their bottom line. Andrew Wilkie can then switch to the other side and join poor ol’ “flip flop” Tony and his band under-achievers - alas poor ol’ Tony will still be short by a vote, but should that turncoat Peter Slipper slip away to somewhere else, or join Bob Katter’s Australia party Tony is in there with a chance. If he does go ahead with bringing Julia to task at least we won’t have to put up with the one line slogans for the next 12 months. Last but not least pokies should be introduced to laundromats, public toilets, shopping centres, schools and libraries, etc. to bring about maximum investment into the community, you know, of the kind that Clubs Australia prattles on about. Finally I believe Andrew Wilkie is one of the few decent polititians we have in our current parliament.

  • 8
    Sue Pinkerton
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Wilkies agreement with Gillard was for the implementation of a “best practice full pre-commitment scheme - that is uniform across all States and Territories and machines…”

    His agreement does not mention $1 bet limits nor a maximum hourly loss limit.

    IF Wilkie drops his stance on mandatory pre-commitment and gets behind the $1 bet OR a maximum hourly loss limit, he will be breaking his agreement with Gillard and Labor will be under no obligation to introduce a pokies reform bill of any kind to parliament.

    If Wilkie sticks to his call for a full pre-commitment scheme, then a pokies reform bill has to be tabled, debated and passed by May 8th 2012.

    During the debate of a Pokies Reform Bill, MP’s from both houses can reject the notion of a full pre-commitment scheme and put forward - and pass - amendments that could include $1 maximum bet limit and/or a maximum hourly loss limit.

    Wilkie may very well support the setting of a $1 maximum bet limit and/or a maximum hourly loss limit, but he cannot afford to do so before the Reform Bill is tabled before parliament without risking ending up effecting no change at all.

  • 9
    billie
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Are you the Suzanne Blake LinkedIn describes as a wine wholesaler?

  • 10
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Or Wilkie and Gillard could agree to change their agreement from pre commitment to a limit on bets or losses.

  • 11
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    @ Schnappi

    Gillard is the li ar in the court of public opinion, go and ask a few hundred people in marginal seats, where the next election with be WON or LOST. Read and weap.

  • 12
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    @ Billie

    I have nothing to do with wine, except the odd drink at special ocassions.

  • 13
    Sue Pinkerton
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Gavin, Wilkie and Gillard COULD agree to change their agreement from pre commitment to a limit on bets or losses, but who is going to bring the subject up for discussion?

    Both risk being accused of breaking the agreement if they do, so I doubt either one will raise the suggestion.

  • 14
    outside left
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    that would be ‘weep’

  • 15
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    If pre commitment seems unlikely to be supported by the other cross benchers and thus pass Parliament then it would be sensible for either or both Wilkie and Gillard to open a discussion of what may be likely to win majority support.

    Merely suggesting that an agreement may be better changed is hardly breaking it.

  • 16
    Schnappi
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    @SUZANNE BLAKE<
    No she is not,the murdoch press ,in particular is for regime change so are shock jocks,and liberal only voters ,abbott has backflipped and lies as the video shows,but gets a free ride from murdoch who publicly supports abbott

  • 17
    Michael
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    A mate of mine who owns a pub in Fairfield tells me he paid $1.7m in gaming tax last year.
    He knows that a mandatory poker machine scheme will collapse this down to $500k pa. And off course, he will be broke.
    So he goes broke & NSW receives $1.2m less in taxes.
    He sacks his 28 staff & they go on the dole.
    His problem gamblers turn to Internet Gaming & TAB & lotto & 2up, etc.
    Please tell him how this solves a problem.

  • 18
    Pedantic, Balwyn
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    The Productivity Commission may have found that mandatory pre-commitment was an effective deterrent to unbridled gambling; however gamblers dispute their findings claiming they will find a way around it. Sadly unlike the preposterous whining of Clubs Australia there may be some truth in the gambler’s claims.
    Recognising that this is a serious issue for 100,000+ families a resolution must be found. So surely the answer is therefore the simple one of reducing the limit to $1.00 and extending the period between spins to result in a maximum loss per hour? Despite any claims by Clubs Australia this is both simple to program and install in the pokies.
    However bowing to the court of public opinion, in NSW anyway, introduction could be staged over three years providing time for clubs to adjust to the loss of problem gambler revenue. May be a short course run by the clubs of WA, where only Birdswood Casino has pokies, would show them how to operate without ruining their customers lives.

  • 19
    GeeWizz
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Setting a maximum bet as the legislative target is a no-brainer.

    Unfortunately Wilkie and Dillard have no-brains and have still balls it up.

    People don’t like nanny states. The pre-committment brain-fart that the lefties had was a nanny state iniative… telling people you must get a license to punt basically(no way around that) while probably doing little to stop problem gamblers(hey set my limit to $1 Million Dollars thanks!).

    But of course the lefties love pushing nanny statism and now they have pretty much lost the ENTIRE debate with their stupidity.

    $1 Maximum bet would have been the logical way to go from day 1. Let those who want to punt, have a punt but make sure it’s HARD to lose money. Increases in returns on deposits(around 80% at the moment I believe) could also be increased.

    Sure the clubs could whine about $1 Maximum bets, but it’s a hard argument to make when as stated 90% of punters bet below that anyway.

  • 20
    GeeWizz
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    A debate maybe on hour many standard drinks is permitted to have a day for everyone to protect alcoholics from themselves?”

    Actually this is already covered in law for all clubs and pubs.

    There are serious fines for pubs and clubs caught serving alcohol to highly intoxicated people.

    Setting pokie maximum betting limits isn’t really forcing people to STOP punting, rather it restricts their ability to lose money(and make money from others losses as well though).

    I think the legislation should also cover Casino’s who always seem to get favourable treatment on these sort of things.

  • 21
    AR
    Posted Thursday, 19 January 2012 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    The original proposal by Wilkie, maximum $1 bets, was rejected by the government, on Clubs advice.
    WHY? Surely not because it would be simple, fast & effective?

  • 22
    cam douglas
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    sometimes reading the reader comments is like sitting in another meeting at work; off topic, no solutions, blame everyone else for their stupidity, over complicate the solution, a few jokes and leave feeling like you are smarter than the rest of the idiots sitting at the table.

    Poker machine gambling is a no value waste thought up by lazy trolls that only want to suck money from families and people that are at a loss with themselves. Remember the industry that manufactures gaming machines consider them an entertainment device, not gambling per se where you play the odds. Why not put warning signs above each poker machine such as “Warning; the more you play the more you lose” or “An occasional win is only because we have to pay out 13% of the take. Consider yourself the lucky one!”

    And we sit here and debate politics and useless solutions with clever language, perfect grammar and a hint of wit all while the rich lazy trolls continue to fill their pockets with easy-earned money at a huge social cost. Do you still feel smart?

  • 23
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    @ cam douglas

    I am not defending pokies, but the payout is 88 - 89%, higher in Australian casino’s

  • 24
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    @ Schnappi

    You are naive, look at the polling, even Labor polling, her FP is 29%.

    Thats a wipeout mate.

    She was caught stone dead with the lie on national TV. Never been a more blatent / obvious lie by a PM in Australia’s history.

  • 25
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Journalist: ‘So you’ve left the door open for a GST now, haven’t you?’
    Howard: ‘No, there’s no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy’.
    Journalist: ‘Never ever?’
    Howard: ‘Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by the voters at the last election.’
    May 2, 1995 (doorstop interview)

    A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia.’
    May 2, 1995 (press release)

    Can I look you straight in the eye and say this, that if I state before an election that we’re not going to do something and say it in concrete terms, I mean it. One of the worst things about politics in Australia at the moment is that the public doesn’t believe what political leaders say.’

    John Howard, December 11, 1995 (Radio 2NC)

  • 26
    Schnappi
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    @SUZANNE BLAKE,
    Seems you forget that last election labor got more votes than libs ,nats,greens and others combined,you seem to think those people would vote for abbott.lol,you believe the tarnished murdoch press who want a regime change,instead of asking what I smoke or drink,perhaps your meds need changing.

  • 27
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    @ Gavin Moodie Selective

    Except Howard went to the following election with a GST policy.

    Gillard went to the 2010 election saying “there will be no Carbon tax under a Givernment I lead”

    Swan said ‘there will be no carbon tax, its just coalition scaremongering’ or something like that.

    Both li ed. Further they li ed a week before the 2010 election. Further they started planning a carbon tax weeks after the 2010 election by asking Treasury to do modelling.

    Gross fraud on the Australian voter

  • 28
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    ‘Never ever. ‘

    John Howard, doorstop interview, Tweed Heads Civic Centre, 2 May 1995

  • 29
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    @ Schnappi Tom

    As I have said here 103 times now, I am not an Abbott supporter.

    And Schnappi Tom, you are also WRONG

    Seems you forget that last election labor got more votes than libs ,nats,greens and others combine”

    Labor got 4.7m votes the other parties you mention got 6.86 m votes. So it seem you forget!!!

    results.aec.gov.au/15508/Website/HouseStateFirstPrefsByParty-15508-NAT.htm

  • 30
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    @ Gavin Moodie

    Swan said his budget he would created 500,000 jobs in the 2011 Budget.

    Didn’t happen

    Politicians lie, change their minds etc etc.

    Just Gillard and Swans li es are in perfect TV format, remembable.

    No one can forget them. That clip will be played after she dies. Just like the Hawke Amercia’s Cup one, and the Whitlam sacking speech on the steps of the Old Parliament, when they die.

  • 31
    gapot
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Well “going foward” has been removed from the language Steven. Just put a bar code on the punters forehead and a big boxing glove could come out of the pokie and knock them off their stools.

  • 32
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Howard before the 1996 election: ‘No tax increases, no new taxes’. ‘I’m not going to break any promises.’

    Within weeks after the 1996 election Howard slashed spending on education, health and social welfare: those were ‘non-core promises’.

  • 33
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    @ Gavin Moodie

    I tell you what. Get in your car and travel to the 2 most marginal seats closest to home and ask the locals.

    Thats the acid test.

    it is what people remember. Gillard will never shake the li ar reputation. Swan will never shake the mantle of the man who wasted the surplus. Rock Star Garrett will not shake the botched insulation scheme that led to deaths. Abbott wont shake budgie smugglers, Ruddock children overboard. Fraser and his lost trousers, Hawke and his lost trousers and America’s Cup etc

  • 34
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    And Howard will never shake his distinction between ‘core’ and ‘non core’ promises because it epitomises his blatant breaking of what he called ‘non core’ promises.

  • 35
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    @ Gavin Moodie

    I guess marketing is not your speciality.

    Howard will be remembered for losing his seat to Maxine McKew in 2007 and for repaying a then record 96b Labor surplus and turning it to a 21b surplus.

    Gavin may remember other things, but not the majority

  • 36
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    I have demonstrated the falsity of your claim that ‘Never been a more blatent / obvious lie by a PM in Australia’s history’.

  • 37
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    @ gavin moodie

    In your mind perhaps. Rusted on labor voters dont decide elections

  • 38
    Schnappi
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    @SUZANNE BLAKE,
    Your leader abbott has just said that the concordia is one boat that got stopped,guess the liberals are not like rusted on labor voters who do not tell sick jokes for votes.

  • 39
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    @ Schnappi

    for the 104th time, he is not my leader and I don’t support him

  • 40
    Schnappi
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    @SB.
    Please first time so stop telling porkies.

  • 41
    Lord Barry Bonkton
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Schnappi and Gavin , don’t waste your time with S.B/TTH/geewiz , she has been brain washed by Ltd News and spends all her day/nights at the Local Pokie Halls.
    Billie , she did till she got caught drinking all the profits.
    Geewiz , so you like the Greens policy of $1 Max bets ? Its the best , cheapest and fast way to slow down the damage the pokies do this nation.

  • 42
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    @ Lord Bonkers

    Brainwashed, need to look in the mirror My Lord.

    I don’t do the pokies, except for the odd (2 - 3) goes a year.

    I rarely drink as well.

  • 43
    Apollo
    Posted Friday, 20 January 2012 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    They could have a dual gaming operating system. $1 max bet for cash and if you want to bet higher then register for a smart card which allows up to $5 bet. If a person uses the card reaches the addictive threshold then their detail is automatically sent to the counselling board to contact them to see if they need help.

    May be the threshold is a lost of more than $1200 in four weeks, $1600 in 8 weeks or a weekly average of more than $100 over three months; and some frequency of hours.

  • 44
    Steve777
    Posted Saturday, 21 January 2012 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    If the Clubs are going to keep spouting a cost of $3.5 billion to implement gambling reform, they must be called upon to justify it, especially in light of the Australia Institute’s report yesterday. What the Clubs are saying is that it will cost about $17,500 per machine for each of the 200,000 pokies in Australia to implement either change.

    This is patently absurd, especially for $1 limits. I suspect that the clubs are including part of the regular maintenance / replacement costs that any business running computer systems would face, or perhaps they are multiplying the cost of individually reconfiguring one machine by the total number of machines. Or perhaps they are doubling the number they first thought of and adding enough zeros to make it look scary.

    The machines would not be hard-wired for the current rules. Bet limits are already enforced - $10 for NSW. This number would be a simple parameter in the machine’s programming which could be changed in a few minutes or, more likely, given that clubs are networked, delivered over the internet. The cost of implementing a $1 limit would be the same as the cost of changing the current limit from $10 to $20, and I don’t think the clubs would complaing about that change.

    I can see that precommitment would be more complex, but even so, it would not be required to individually reprgram each and every machine. The program and design would be done once and then delivered to each machine for installation.

    Here’s my conservative guesstimate: counting $1,000 cost per work day; 2,000 work days design / program / test (20 staff for about 6 months); assume that this programming has to be repeated for 10 different types of machines; and allow 2 days’ effort to configure each of 200,000 machines, the total cost would be about $440m, but it’s probably a lot less.

  • 45
    Anna Kae
    Posted Sunday, 22 January 2012 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Some Sunday morning trivia …
    Wilkie announced his “abandonment” of the Gillard government yesterday …. I think it was around 12pm but I didn’t log in and see the news until 3pm. By that time the Herald Sun had some 127 comments.
    The Age and The Australian had posted the news but with no ability for readers to comment.
    Sometime after 6pm The Conversation had posted a piece, the HS at that time had some 220 comments and when I woke this morning The Conversation still had no responses.
    Crickey has yet to post anything but if and when they do I am sure subscribers will quickly post comments.
    This shows apathy all round, but particularly from our online media. Media is 24/7 … and so is social media…
    Was Crickey at the Tennis with The Age and the Australian? Is Crickey suffering from weekend penalty rates? Was Crickey trying to ignore the implications of Wilkie’s decision because it doesn’t fit into their political news view?

    Oh and Bolt was also MIA….

    Maybe we were all just out enjoying the wonderful climate changed weather.

  • 46
    Posted Sunday, 22 January 2012 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I think it more likely that Crikey is viable with only 5 newsletters a week. I’d be surprised if the decision weren’t covered in Monday’s newsletter.

  • 47
    Weber Hermann
    Posted Sunday, 22 January 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Personally I couldn’t care less about poker machines or limits on betting etc. I do object however to the perennial cry that the “Government” must tell us what to do. I thought we were all Adults.
    I also note that in all this discussion there is not a mention of the revenue lost by State Governments should pokies be banned. As I understand it the amount collected is considerable. A bit like condemning smokes. All bad for health etc but will it be banned? Not on your nelly as long as enormous sums of tax are collected from smokers.
    Hermann Weber

  • 48
    Posted Sunday, 22 January 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    I agree that the starting point should be that people take responsibility for their own lives. The difficulty is that peoples’ addiction to gambling on pokies affects not just them but their families and the people from whom they steal to support their addiction. The community has a shared responsibility to support these innocent victims, and since this is so expensive the community seeks to prevent the damage occurring by limiting peoples’ losses on pokies.

    It is true that the State Governments would lose substantial revenue from a limit on pokies. However, this would be offset to some extent by their savings from the help they provide to gambling addicts and their victims.

  • 49
    Andybob
    Posted Monday, 23 January 2012 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    Some people say pre-commitment is a “nanny-state” measure. Others say it will not work because problem gamblers will specify $1M. Occasionally the same person says both, apparently unconscious of the irony. Pre-commitment will not stop you losing money if you want to lose money. You will remain free to do so. It will, however, give those who do not want to lose more than a certain amount a tool to help them limit their losses. There is no license to punt. The Productivity Commission recommended pre commitment after exhaustive examination of problem gambling, because it works. If business models can’t accommodate punters limiting their losses to what they can afford, then people are in the wrong business.

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