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Misogyny not to blame for Santa Barbara massacre

We love the narrative that blames a current cultural ill (loose morals, video games, a controversial book, misogyny) for random acts of inexplicable horror. But this narrative is completely wrong.

Elliot Rodger massacre

When Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon at point-blank range, he was carrying a copy of Catcher in the Rye. This was also among a very few volumes found in the apartment of John Hinckley Jr. —  although, of course, the infamous stalker attributed his attempt on the life of Ronald Reagan much more to the work of Martin Scorsese. Nonetheless, it’s important that after we blame Taxi Driver for that attempted homicide, we note the fatal shooting of 21-year-old actress Rebecca Schaeffer was effected by an assailant carrying J.D. Salinger in his jacket.

Talk about murder by the book. After all, everybody is these past few days. Since the fatal shooting of four men and two women in Santa Barbara, California, apparently by a man named Elliot Rodger, who also committed suicide, the role of cultural influence is again under scrutiny.

According to commentators, this 22-year-old read some misogynistic pamphlets and websites. It is held by many commentators that his alleged actions were not, in fact, the result of the same ultra-individualised extremism that has driven white Americans to kill each other since one who signed the Mayflower compact took out a blunderbuss in the middle of an argument. This violence, it is said, is not part of the occasional American tradition of believing aberrant shit and shooting guns at people in its name. This violence is the work of misogynistic websites.

Here is a post at The American Prospect describing how “pick up artist” writing shaped the mind of a killer. Here is a post at The Daily Kos asserting that Rodger was influenced by the Men’s Rights Movement. Here is a crayon drawing at the New Statesman by someone who should probably have taken a break rather than deciding to “make no apologies for the fact this piece is full of rage” and go on to describe the “ideology” that fuelled this crime. Society, say the writers, endorses this kind of hate-crime.

In short, and in the fast habit of the morally panicked, the internet and what remains of news media “know” why this crime was committed. On ABC1’s Q&A last night, author Tara Moss summed broad feeling up when she noted that the alleged assailant had told us that misogyny was his motive in his last video.

This view requires that we accept not only that the act of violence was the logical end to a normative hatred of women but that Rodger is a reliable narrator. This is bit like according Holden Caulfield the same status. If this were high school English, we’d all get an F.

We’d fail, and we’d end the fictional lives of Salinger’s Holden and Scorsese’s Travis and, while we were at it, we’d take back the Beatles White Album from iPhones everywhere because, as you know, this was the trigger for the Manson Family’s murder of Sharon Tate and eight other souls. Probably the Bible, too, given that Jim Jones’ fondness for it led to what would be the single largest loss of American civilian life by human design until September 11, 2001, which, as everybody knows, was the work of the Koran. Also, as it happens, the reading material for the Boston bombers.

Are we up to speed, yet? In summary: The Bible kills. The Beatles kill. Columbine was the work of Marilyn Manson. Aurora was down to Batman. Sandy Hook was only made possible by video games.

When Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza, an ardent player of Dance Dance Revolution, did his worst to the babies of Connecticut, President Barack Obama responded by proposing measures that would prevent raving loonies previously charged with bloody murder from buying semi-automatics. These controls were defeated in the US Senate. Perhaps the US Violent Content Research Act, which proposes proving a link between novelty dance games and mass shootings, has a better chance of passing.

It must do, because we have begun to believe so ardently that madmen have a violent genealogy that has less to do with owning a gun in what has long been the world’s most violent liberal democracy than it does with vice.  We have begun to seek comfort so ardently in the simplest accounts of history’s most complex age. Who knows why people without any obvious reason to do so kill?  Who knows why rampage killers affix their unstuck sickness to a particular cultural peg?

The Guardian knows. Here it is offering “further proof that misogyny kills”, that the unwholesome literature of an unwholesome time is responsible for something that has been happening since the birth of criminal records. As Jessica Valenti has it (and she is careful not to call the alleged assailant mad for fear that it will “stigmatise the mentally ill”; she’s not so worried about stigmatising an entire nation), guns don’t kill people. Misogyny does. Stop the “victim-blaming”. Start the victim-claiming.

Way to change the public conversation. Way to hinder much-needed support for those gun control measures well-regarded studies tell us save lives. Way to kickstart that kind of feminist Godwin-ing that begins in the gut and ends in social scientism.Whenever we hear about bloodshed in the cult-and-gun-happy United States, we are absolutely confused and absolutely sure in succession. First, there is the instant in which we know this horror is beyond the reach of our understanding. Then, we acquire instant expertise in forensic and social psychology and begin to explain exactly why it happened. And then, actual grown-ups start writing oblivious and frantic things like PolicyMic’s” What Elliot Rodger Said About Women Reveals Why We Need to Stamp Out Misogyny”.

What Eliot Rodger Said About Women reveals that the guy was a nutter-butter created by goodness-knows-what fusion of chemicals with numb hate, and that a person with a long history of psychiatric therapy was able to access a gun. These are not the actions of a person, despite the author’s desperation to locate him in an evil-guy continuum, which form the endpoint of patriarchy. These are the actions of a person only a very few experts are qualified to assess within a broader social and psychological context. But the internet knows what he was doing because, of course, “The gunman knew exactly what he was doing”; there’s Moss’s reliable narrator again.

On this widely read assessment goes: the media should not dismiss such people as madmen but acknowledge that their actions are an “extension of toxic masculinity ideals that are institutionally reinforced”. The media should do this quickly and often. The media should not deny that “many school shootings could qualify as hate crimes against women and girls”. The author goes on to cite one example of such a crime, bringing her misogyny total to two. Which is still one fewer than Catcher in the Rye. Or, you know, two if we count the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald also liked a bit of Salinger.

But no matter. According to “research” (aka a blogger who used a Wikipedia entry as the basis for some Excel pie charts), school shootings claim a greater number of female student victims than male student victims. And the media do not report this (mild, improperly sourced) statistic because of misogyny. The same misogyny that links all acts of disdain or harm directed at women — soon to include, I imagine, this article — and that pulled the trigger on four men and two women last Friday in California (five men when you include the gunman).

The DIY sociology continues apace. We can’t be sure what to make of the figure in an amateur data set that tells us that more male teachers than female teachers are slain in this, the 180th anniversary year of US school shootings by students. (The first was male on male, if you’re interested.) But it probably has something to do with misogyny. Because this week, all murders are the product of misogyny. All murderers know exactly what they’re doing. All murders have their roots in misogyny, because men mostly do murder. And men know what they’re doing. And we know what men are doing. Misogyny.

The tone of this analysis might be novel; the shape of it is familiar.

Charlie Manson and his girls were spurred on by The White Album, an artefact of a permissive era. Lanza was moved to kill by the video games of a violent era. Some 900 people in the People’s Agricultural Temple died by the perversion of Christian tenets in a godless era. Here’s the formula: the social ill that currently preoccupies me is the basis for that horrible thing. We know what they are doing. And so do they.

Rodger “knew exactly what he was doing”. Just like Charles Manson did, presumably, when he attempted to spark a race war by instructing his “family” to go to a house in a tony white suburb and “totally destroy everyone … as gruesome as you can”.

We can say that Manson was probably a racist. What we cannot say is that his crimes were the “extension of toxic ideals” that are institutionally reinforced. If you want to look for evidence of just what horror racism in America can achieve, you don’t need to go to Benedict Canyon. Go a few kilometres away to South Central Los Angeles or Google the US Census Bureau. And it is there where you might find the evidence for sexism, too.

That’s the thing about the everyday horror of social inequality. It’s boring, and it never makes headlines. Most of the violence it produces is niggling and slow and diffuse, not hard and fast and centralised. And it doesn’t manifest, as much as we might will it to, in the bloodthirsty actions of people who are the product of influences too various and convoluted to be easily explained or understood.

Make no mistake, this PUA stuff is icky. Sexism is real. But to say that these things led to these particular deaths is radically myopic. To say that all aggression enacted toward a woman is misogynist is just plain wrong. Not only does this latest giddy hypothesising fail to (a) buoy a pending bill for gun control and (b) acknowledge that white US citizens have been in the habit of bizarrely killing each other in small numbers and for peculiar reasons shortly after stepping off the cult-ship Mayflower. It actually makes feminists looks as stupid as the people who want to see Dance Dance Revolution banned in connection with massacre. And, to borrow the rage of all the commentators previously quoted, that makes me Unapologetically Angry and Full of Grief. As a feminist and as a critic of cultural goods.

This is not an attempt to minimise the extraordinary tragedy in Santa Barbara wrought by inexplicable horror or the ordinary tragedies wrought by the fictions of gender and race. Rather, it is an urging not to blame cultural goods for social ill. It is a plea not to see books, pamphlets, websites, records or sensationalised report of murder as anything but a possible illustration of ill, not its origin.

And it is a reminder that the First Amendment is the good one. It’s the Second we have to worry about.

This is my statement,

Holden Caulfield.

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  • 1
    arnold ziffel
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    The title of this piece is ‘Razer: misogyny not to blame for Santa Barbara massacre’.
    I guess that might be the product of an enthusiastic subbie, if Crikey has such people.
    I’m happy for Ms Razer to take on the prevailing suppositions in our culture, including the purported links between cultural representations of violence and actual violent acts.
    Mr Rodger appeared in a Youtube saying why he was going to do this, including a desire to punish women for their choosing other men over him.
    Not to suggest that this is the motivation in all cases, but it seems to be operating in this case.
    Do we believe what he tells us?
    Why is Holden Caulfield the sign-off on the article?
    Did Mr Rodger mention that particular fictional character?
    I wish no one did - I reckon it’s a bit overrated.
    What we might need is some explanation for why the perpetrators of the shooting deaths that occur so often are virtually 100% male.
    I’m happy to regard movies, comics and video games as symptoms rather than as causal factors, as as long as we’re seriously trying to find a more satisfying explanation rather than just suggesting it started with the Mayflower.

  • 2
    danger_monkey
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Click-bait by a contrarian writer, attacking a straw man.

    No one in the US believes that the sole cause of this mass killing was misogyny. We all know that it flows from the confluence of culture, mental illness and an obsession with guns. But the culture has a significant misogynistic component and you have to go no further than the writings and recordings of Mr Rodgers himself to see (and hear it).

  • 3
    Georgie McRae
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    How you can say that misogyny (hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women) wasn’t at least a major factor in this is beyond me. This man clearly expressed hatred against women in general. There seems to be a lot of argument that is “Was he crazy?” versus “Was he a misogynist?” - surely I’m not the only one seeing that potentially he was both? And - to say he is a misogynist is not saying that every single attack on a woman is misogynist, either.

    Yes, it also boils down to significant mental issues and gun control. I could not agree more that these need to be addressed, however that does not mean the misogyny isn’t a factor or that anybody who acknowledges that is somehow hurting feminism/missing the point. One argument for gun control is that people with sick ideologies (whether they be racist, misogynist, far-left, far-right, religious or anything else) and mental issues aren’t so easily able to inflict massive harm.

    I completely agree that misogyny is not behind every attack on women, just as every attack on a person of a particular heritage is not necessarily racism. However, sometimes - perhaps even often - it is. And there is no point denying that as we should address ALL the factors contributing to these awful attacks, not just cherry pick them.

  • 4
    David Irving (no relation)
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Misogyny. You use that word, Ms Razer, but i do not think that word means what you think it means.

  • 5
    Charles Miller
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    It’s funny how mental illness and “you know, some people just snap like that, asking why is pointless” seems an almost entirely white excuse for killing people.

  • 6
    Pippa Tandy
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Hurrah. Some sense.

  • 7
    Ca Noyb
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    As you claim to be a writer, perhaps pen something that has some kind of logical argument structure. If you’re going to go bashing around a sensitive issue, a proper review of the facts rather than mocking other analysis would be appropriate. But that’s not what you write, is it? You write click-bait, anti-feminist diatribes without actually producing anything of higher quality than the work that you ‘critique’.

    If you identify as feminist, trust me… we don’t want you on our team.

    As an ACTUAL social psychologist, I’m calling this article for the MRA cookie-seeking rubbish that it is.

    Yes, there is a massive issue with gun violence. However, THIS case has also raised a very serious issue not only with a pervasive culture of disrespect towards women and the entitlement felt by many men, but also in the quashing of women’s right to have a reaction, to want to start a conversation about those attitudes and to be heard. The killer did not come up with these attitudes on his own. It’s pervasively embedded in our culture, and everyone has the right to be upset about it. It’s not co-opting the gun control issue, it’s adding to that conversation that the vast majority of shooters are men. Isn’t that worth having a rational discussion about?

  • 8
    Mark out West
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Hey if you want to see some real misogyny then look no further than Manus Island and the woman and children locked up there.

    NO WAIT, Australian woman don’t care cause the majority of them voted this govment in and agree with Manus.

    Misogyny must only be a 1st World thing.

  • 9
    jimjames jammyjams
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    before any of you pretend you know what this guy was about you should all read his manifesto from start to finish. sex was his primary motivator, and he saw women as the arbiters of that sex and wished to punish them for denying him (interestingly he never says he actually approached any women to talk to them). his ultimate fantasy was to live in a society free from sex which he thought would bring a natural purity to the human race. this last point should be viewed in context to santa barbara/isla vista where he was living, which apparently is a spring break mecca. he viewed the people there (and by extension all humans), who he had a profound jealousy and loathing of as impure beasts, driven by base desires. he had a psychopathic jealousy of just about everyone, chronic depression and extreme antisocial tendencies. people were trying to get him help for years, everyone around him recognised there was a problem but for whatever reason he was fixated on his desire to be with a “white attractive blonde woman”. “mysogyny” was not so much a symptom it was by-product, much less a cause.

  • 10
    jimjames jammyjams
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    also he hated pick up artists. PUA Hate (note the hate?) is a website devoted hating the type of men which rodgers viewed as stealing the women he obsessed over. he also viewed the people on PUAHate as depressing, and “[m]ost of the people on that website have extremely stupid opinions that I found very frustrating”.

  • 11
    stuart richardson
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    As always, a wonderful experience to read your thoughts Helen. A little off topic: I was under the impression that the UK was the most violent (western) country. Unless, of course, a firearm needs to be used in the act of violence, rather than a twin bladed box cutter, cricket bat etc, etc. to be considered worthy of adding to a country’s statistics?
    Anyone have reliable information in relation to the above? I wouldn’t like to be repeating what I’ve read/heard if there was no basis in truth there.

  • 12
    pddevereux@aol.com
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    mmm have to agree Ms Razer. Misogyny exists and some people may be motivated by its tenants to actually act on it. The availability of guns in the USA to someone who obtains them legally even with a history of mental illness and therapy is the true tragedy that seems to be ignored in the race to blame the patriarchy for the deaths of seven people. White, disturbed young men who can access weaponry Is a nightmare that seems to have its genesis in the particular social culture that exists not just here but all over the West. The difference is the presence of 250M guns in the USA.

  • 13
    AR
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    possibly off rant but why this obsession with the current nut’s trigger finger? He slew 3 men with a blade before setting off for the sorprity house.

  • 14
    AR
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    ..as well as the “sorority” house.

  • 15
    PDGFD1
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Mmm… Don’t know about your English teacher, but I’d give you an F re logic this time round.

    Misogyny does go back as far (and far further than) the bible, and has sadly been reinforced over and over in most cultures.

    Your being clever isn’t an excuse for not acknowledging what you may view as being too obvious.
    It’s not. Not to many.

    Misogyny is entrenched, it does affect how those who view themselves as disenfranchised (rightly, or wrongly in this particular boy’s case) behave (rather than seeing themselves and their attitudes as ‘the problem’).
    It amplifies their sense of entitlement.
    It does lead to violence.

    You can do better.

  • 16
    Chris Hartwell
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Stuart, not strictly true as the US and UK report “violence” differently. Quite simply, the UK has a lower threshold for what is deemed a violent act, and consequently a seemingly higher incidence of violence.

  • 17
    Scott
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Helen.

    This nutter kills 4 male victims (5 if you include himself) vs 2 female victims and the reson put out there is that he hates women? That Misogyny in society is rife and is to blame?

    Really?

  • 18
    James Carman
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Hang on. Chapman was found with a copy of a book in his pocket, and that’s the same as this crime? There’s a world of difference. The people who tried to tie Salinger together with Lennon’s slaying never could provide a good reason why the two would be linked. They also ignored the killer’s words and his own explanation.

    In this case, it’s not merely a coincidence. This is a man who exhibited extraordinarily misogynistic behaviour and has been celebrated by misogynists around the net since his killing spree. There is a simple, straight line from his manifesto to his killings. I recognise that reductio ad adbsurdum has its place, but this isn’t it: it’s the argument that becomes absurd, not its target.

    I find myself wishing, not for the first time, that Ms Razer were more capable of seeing issues as complex. “That isn’t the problem in society, THIS is” is a common pattern in her articles. The message here is “misogyny isn’t to blame here, it’s guns”.

    Well… what if it’s both? Misogyny PLUS access to guns PLUS a society where violence is seen as an acceptable solution for problems? Why does there have to be one reason? Misogyny is being focused on because it’s generally ignored in crimes even where it is relevant, while people — media, special interest groups — focus on guns. We want simple stories; and yes, misogyny doesn’t explain this crime on its own. Neither does the second amendment. Ms Razer would want us to treat this one the same way? She has previously beaten up on modern feminism by saying ignore ‘everyday sexism’ and focus on violence against women: what on earth should we be doing to reduce violence against women if not challenging its causes?

    No — you don’t challenge a simplistic view of the world by asserting an even more simplistic one. That’s poor reasoning, to say the least. I realise that pointing out “The Left“‘s logical deficiencies is Ms Razer’s favourite game, but answering them with logical deficiencies of her own is vacant.

  • 19
    Shaniq'ua Shardonn'ay
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting the commentary around this one, “It’s not misogyny, he killed 4 men as well” claim some, “It’s not mental illness, don’t stigmatise the mentally ill!!!” claim others and in the US I’m sure we will hear “It’s not Guns, he used a knife on 3 of them”.
    I think we are all trying to reassure ourselves that it will not happen to us somehow.
    My belief is that it is probably a mixture of all 3 and maybe some. Arguing the point isn’t going to help except to provide click-bait to Rants like this which, after reading it twice, don’t make any sense either. I’m not sure Helen if your hypothesis is that “it’s a US thing” or “It’s a gun thing” or what.

  • 20
    Shaniq'ua Shardonn'ay
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    @James Carman - I think you put it better than I did actually.

  • 21
    C H
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Helen, if a white supremacist or super-racist shoots up shikh temple, then they are racist and their actions are influenced and cause by racism. Why are you trying to say misogyny was not the cause of the shooting when you read the manifesto, watch the youtube video, and see what he posted on PUA hate and bodybuilding.com it’s really undeniable. And to blame mental illness is gross and ableist. I am neuroatypical and mentally ill and I don’t kill people; so why was his mental illness to blame? Anders Brevik was not mentally ill, so why did he kill 60+ people? Helen, if you read this you need to read these things.

    http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/24/video-allegedly-from-mass-killer-in-santa-barbara-if-i-cant-have-you-girls-ill-destroy-you-trigger-warning/

    http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/25/why-elliot-rodgers-misogyny-matters/#more-11976

    http://www.feministborg.com/the-101-pages/disability-101/

    It seems so patently obvious what motivated these killings, and to use disability to change the discussion from misogyny is gross. Thanks, C.

  • 22
    C H
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Oh my, a typo! Why are you trying to say misogyny was not the cause of the shooting(?) When you read the manifesto

  • 23
    Mark out West
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    No Takers,
    that we all, women included, must hate women to send them to Manus with their kids or is it as I’ve said just a first world problem.

    Unless it may affect you int isn’t a problem

  • 24
    jimjames jammyjams
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    to try and paint this is some sort of cultural norm of “mysogyny” and “self entitlement” suggests elliot rodgers thoughts were normal and shared widely in the community. i would argue that wanting to massacre an entire town because you find out someone you’ve never spoken to has a boyfriend is anything but normal.

  • 25
    Shaniq'ua Shardonn'ay
    Posted Tuesday, 27 May 2014 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    OK @Mark out West, I personally did not vote for either of the major parties who decided that offshore detention was a solution for refugees. And yes, Women can be as misogynist as men. Mind you Women being harmed or Killed by Men is something that happens to a Woman in Melbourne who has just taken out a restraining order as well as a Woman in India whose Family hasn’t kept up the dowry payments.

  • 26
    jennajaxup
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    This voting, Australian mother hears you Mark out West.I saw my first Immigration Detention Centre (sic) at Port Hedland, W.A. in 1992. Evidence of humanitarian regard was so lacking, it made me literally sick. The mystery death of one detainee, so far (reported), on Manus Island has been ignored by our media. Suicide attempts now occur so regularly,its mandatory all guards carry wire cutters.. Didn’t the farcical, government fix promise no more deaths? Justifying, spending millions to further isolate, terrorise, now criminalise people already fleeing the same. I hear you and thank-you for another voice asking more pertinent questions than Ms Razer…

  • 27
    Catherine Scott
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Okay so it’s more complicated than that. Take one very violent society awash in guns, add one weird guy and a cultural belief system about the relative value of men and women. Weird guy could have latched onto other belief systems about groups of people. Could have gone for antisemitism or hate of black people or whatever. Similar result likely.

    I’ve had to contemplate misogyny quite a bit lately what with a teenage daughter who has now copped enough shall we call it routine make rudeness to realise that it’s easier being male than female in our unpleasant society.

  • 28
    Lil Z
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    When Anders Behring Breivik went on his killing spree in Norway, many right-wing commentators were keen to deny that he was motivated by racism, on the grounds that most of those he killed were white Norwegians. They too, preferred that everyone view his actions within the context of mental illness and madness, because asking questions about cultural racism and the rise of the extremist right in Europe was too uncomfortable.

    Given that Breivik left a manifesto in which he was very clear about his racist motivations, this amounted to an equally politically motivated feat of denial. Razer is doing exactly the same thing here. As others have pointed out, it isn’t stretching credulity to connect a killer’s actions with misogyny when he leaves an explicitly misogynist manifesto naming antipathy to feminism and women in general as his motivations for carrying out a massacre. Quite the opposite - it stretches credulity to deny this connection.

  • 29
    Don Mark
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Yuz are all so quick to blame the “isms” of our own fragmentation but side-step the Bison in the room. CIA MKultra - mind control hypnosis.

    They been doing it for years.

  • 30
    Catherine Scott
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    This is interesting: http://www.salon.com/2013/11/01/why_is_always_a_white_guy_the_roots_of_modern_violent_rage/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

  • 31
    Djbekka
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Look folks, Helen is correct - according to the evidence Elliot Rodger was a sick puppy with guns, not a garden variety young man disappointed in lust. In the video clip he also was angry with men who wee more successful than he. More men than women were killed. His family and therapist seem to have recognised the illness, but didn’t know about the guns. There are lots of questions to ask about determining the line between a mental illness that is understood and managed well by the sufferer and a mental illness that for a variety of reasons needs a serious intervention including involuntary treatment.

    Let’s talk about guns in the US - there is no reason why semi-automatic hand guns or assorted assault rifles should be in civilian hands. In fact there is an argument that they should not be in police hands, either, but I’ll hold that one for another time. There well may be a vicious circle of gun owning, liking to blow things up, hating women (or is it talking trash about women to cover up one’s desire for and dependence on women in daily life?), blaming others that one’s life is not as expected, racism, and in the words of the most radical of the gun lobby the need for citizens to have guns to protect themselves from the tyranny of the government. But that vicious circle provides language and justification to act against the other more virtuous circles of language and action that include respect for others, a willingness to live under a shared rule of law, etc.

    There seems to be some evidence for thinking Elliot was an unreliable narrator - that is he was hurting, angry and seeking to kill someone (and as it turns our himself). He was organised enough to plan his action, disorganised enough for some to leak out, organised enough to charm the police who came to visit, but not very good at actually killing the lovely young women he blamed on the tape. I see, from limited information, a young man in a perfect storm of mental illness that crossed from personal control to something else, a country in which powerful guns are available and in which violence (or the potential to take violent action) is a part of the talk, perhaps overactive hormones, perhaps tickets on himself (not unusual at 22), perhaps a circle of sexually bragging friends, and poor social skills. I suspect more will be revealed and I remember that 3 men were killed with one or more knives.

    This is a bad story, but a complex one. Getting powerful weapons out of circulation seems more within a the power of governments than ending misogyny. You know - regulating objects and the sale and ownership of objects, rather than changing attitudes and ideas about gender relations. That said, it may be in part about the cultural construction of masculinity.

  • 32
    Mark out West
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    @ Shaniq’ua Shardonn’ay

    You may have not have voted the past lot in but the majority have and maybe it is the fact that you cannot separate the two issues, that you cannot be misogynistic to one group of people then expect to turn off the misogyny with the next group of people.

    Women who perpetrate gross misogyny towards one desperate diss-empowered group reinforce that behavior in society.

    I am in no way condoning misogyny just saying that if you do not hold all people in the same standing and condone misogyny towards the most vulnerable is it any wonder it pervade the wider communtiy.

  • 33
    Mark out West
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    @ Shaniq’ua Shardonn’ay

    I also take from your post that you are saying male misogyny is worse than woman’s misogyny because it kills people in Melbourne.
    Maybe you should read more about the slow mental disintegration of woman and children in detention to see how vial a thing this is.

  • 34
    Andrew McIntosh
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Everyone’s loving this one. Since the scum in question helpfully left behind documentation outlining his state of “mind” it’s been a commentariat free-for-all, and we’re all invited.

    The implication behind most, if not all of the op-eds I’ve read (and commented on, unable to help myself like everyone else) is along the lines of “if only society was a nicer, more equal place this would never have happened”. That the elimination of misogyny/mental-illness/narcissism/gun ownership/your-pet-issue-here would be the elimination of gruesome crimes such as this.

    Is the thought too much to bear that, regardless of what kind of society we live in, there will always be murderers? Probably. Who’d want to come to terms with it? Especially those with a barrow to push (and are paid by media organs to do so, more particularly). It’s always important, it seems, to analyse these creeps to their very hair follicles. Perhaps it’s worth pointing out that, in the meantime, their victims become mere statistics (no due respect to Stalin).

    I honestly believe a lot of perverse fascination with serial/mass killers is held up by pundits and public alike as a faux concern - if we get to the core of this individual psycho’s psyche, we can prevent it from happening again. Bollocks twice - bollocks to the idea that we can prevent psychos from committing atrocities and bollocks to this phony altruism. I’d take an honest-to-Satan “true crimes” obsessive over some “the problem is…” commentator any day of the week, at least there’s no illusion.

    The endless debate about why he did it ends up being a pointless shouting match between partisans. It’s not that it’s not worth looking at, it’s not that there have not been valid observations made, it’s not that we should just ignore motives and motivations. But when a vicious, condemnable act such as the one in question becomes just another soap box for just another punter - fuck it. Sadness, shock, feeling helpless is not only expected but perhaps the most honorable way of dealing with this, because really, it will always happen, one way or another.

  • 35
    Matthew of Canberra
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Andrew McIntosh: I agree about the points of view being brought to bear on this (call them agendas if you want - I’ve got my own theory about the myths we tell to boys about the world). Because this guy was such an outlier, it’s hard to be certain that marginalising mainstream misogyny would have made any difference - I’m with Razer (and others) on that one. The difference between Rodgers and the creepy guy at the pub was (I think) more than just quantitative - this guy wasn’t just willing to be violent, it was the whole reason he got out of bed that day. He wasn’t just angry in the moment - he’d planned it out, and he’d done a gut check and decided it was the right thing to do.

    Nobody is saying that changing those stereotypes would fix everything. I think that most pundits are simply saying we can do better.

  • 36
    4567
    Posted Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    The guy was a absolutely a nutter, a mad-man, crazy as - but he was ALSO a misogynist. Don’t take that away from this.

    He could have been batshitrcazy and blamed kermit the frog for all the ills of the world, he could’ve instead knifed and shot at stuffed toys..

    The guy hated women to the point that he wanted to make everyone suffer. Is that too simple for everyone?

  • 37
    Janti Escrow
    Posted Friday, 30 May 2014 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Clearly the guy was a misogynist, as stated by Alan Alda, but, as Hawkeye Pierce would have said, “It wasn’t misogyny bullets that killed innocent people, it was gun bullets.”

    Blame the NRA and the bat-shit-crazy Tea Party.

  • 38
    Helen Razer
    Posted Friday, 30 May 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    @Isabel P
    To be clear. You said that if there are any more misogynist murders, you hope that people like me are the target.
    “… I hope they target women who don’t want to see patriarchy at work, such as you.”
    You hope that I die.
    Just to be clear.

  • 39
    geoffrey humphries
    Posted Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    A half hour ago I was tyring to post a few comments in Guardian CiF for “#YesAllWomen reveals the constant barrage of sexism that women face” by Jessica Valenti. It was a horrible experience, not only because the article was drivel (An example, “But still some say Elliot Rodger’s killing spree had other motivations. When will we admit that our society is misogynist? … The reason women mobilized so quickly after the shooting is because we recognized immediately the language and ideology in Rodger’s videos and manifesto…”) but also because half of my really anodyne comments were censored.

    My mind reeling from the exposure to so much inanity, I did some Googling and came across this marvelously well-written and incisive article. Thank you for saving my sanity. I feel much better now.

    P.S. I posted link to your article but that was censored too.

  • 40
    geoffrey humphries
    Posted Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    To all those fixated on the misogyny aspect: Simple minds, simplistic thoughts.

  • 41
    Joshua Smith
    Posted Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    0h this is awesome. What is most important to men is that a steady, constant flow of troll’s commenting across many platforms for all to read. Such a delight. This is a great way to start off saturday mornings. Blessings. xx

  • 42
    Isabel P
    Posted Monday, 2 June 2014 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    More bibliography for an ignorant journalist such as you: http://www.xojane.com/issues/elliot-rodger-unpleasant-truths, http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anne-theriault-/elliot-rodger-shooting_b_5386818.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false. You don’t represent women at all, my dear, as you don’t represent the people at all either, as I have seen in other of your flawed articles. You are a henchwoman in the press for the 1% at the top of society.

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