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After a decade in Iraq, misery and excuses prevail

Ten years after the invasion, Iraq’s soundtrack is still one of explosions and misery. In the West, leaders that ordered it reach for excuses to justify the unjustifiable. Crikey’s man-at-large looks back.

The man had been a leader, but he was a leader no more, and his TV appearance might well be one of his last. So it was wild, and unruly, and he stared at the interview and the camera with wild eyes. Yes, hundreds of thousands had been killed. Yes, he regretted that. But think of the consequences had they not done it. A steeliness came over him. His enemies had not been defeated yet. There might have to be war afresh.

Yes it was Tony Blair of course, in an interview on BBC’s Newsnight, a rare appearance for the former PM who, as interviewer Kirsty Wark noted, was once a British hero of sorts and now could not walk down a UK street without being roundly abused. It was an extraordinary performance, punchy from the start, and, just as he was in the Chilcot inquiry, escalating very quickly to the hysterical, as he spoke of the need to now confront Iran, in the same way we had confronted Iraq. Wark was no match for Blair; to be fair, the flight of logic was so bizarre that it was hard to get ahead of. One gaped, not only because we were unlikely to see the likes of it again, but because it was so rare, now.

Ten years after the invasion of Iraq began, on March 19, 2003, those who had advocated the war — accepted obvious lies in its service, rejoiced in its early triumphs, turned on its critics when the occupation went sour, and eventually blamed the Iraqis themselves — have gone all but silent. Even a decade after, they are buffeted by fresh revelations of what a big lie it was (most recently with news that Latin American dirty war specialists were drafted into Abu Ghraib, making a direct connection between the torture carried out at the prison and General Petraues’ high command).

There is nothing in the Australian press, entirely caught up with the Prime Minister’s stay in a western Sydney hotel that they’ve already dismissed, and precious little in the US press.

In the UK, where the gap between public support and government enthusiasm was at its greatest, it has been only Blair himself, and a rare effort by Nick Cohen in The Observer. Cohen manages to spend 1000 words on Iraq without mentioning weapons of mass destruction once; he speaks of the “tens of thousands killed” afterwards, when the figure was hundreds of thousands, with millions displaced internally. But all these lies are in service to the biggest lie of them all, kicked off with a response to a straw man argument:

For all that, I say, I would not restore the Ba’ath if I had the power to rewind history. To do so would be to betray people who wanted something better after 35 years of tyranny …”

That is the essence of the quadruple lie that sustained those who advocated and then defended the Iraq war, beyond the WMD farago: first, there was reasonable suspicion of WMDs in Iraq; second, the Iraqi people gave an implicit consent to the invasion in their own humanitarian interests; third, the casualties and destruction have nothing to do with the invasion decision per se; and fourth, they are, in any case, not of sufficient magnitude to degelegitimise what occurred. In thinking about not merely the Iraq war, but about intervention and involvement in other conflicts, it’s important to understand how those four distinct arguments interconnect, and were used in an interchangeable manner.

By now, the WMDs argument has been simply disregarded, as if a regrettable error. It wasn’t of course. It was a lie, its deceitful character expressed via the wilful blindness to obvious want of evidence. We now know the Bush administration was actively planning for the invasion of Iraq days after taking office in 2000, that most of the case for WMDs was based on a single source (the Iraqi defector codenamed “Curveball”), that it was all fabricated in pursuit of US asylum, a green card, and cash, and that British and German intelligence warned the US of its unreliable nature at the time. Leading officials knew all this. We now know they knew this. But crucially, we knew at the time the evidence for WMDs was so flimsy that no reasonable case for urgent action could be made.

They not only took these transparent lies at face value, they specifically switched off the critical faculties inherent to journalism …”

Thus we knew immediately the UK government’s “September Dossier” (dubbed the “dodgy dossier”), presented as based on raw intelligence, was in fact compiled from publicly available sources, including mundane country reports, and a master’s thesis harvested from the internet — “s-xed up” with a claim Saddam Hussein had weapons “45 minutes from use”.

We were told Saddam had acquired aluminium tubes, required for weaponisation of uranium, and immediately told the tubes in question were not suitable for that process. In the ultimate insult to our intelligence, Colin Powell presented a satellite photo of two fire trucks in Iraq, saying these were “decontamination vehicles” for a WMD program. The case was never remotely made for WMDs; it relied instead on a phalanx of right-wing journalists, overwhelmingly concentrated in News Corporation publications, and a number of “Left”-liberal ones, who had come, post-9/11, to see the conflict as an epic battle between good and evil. They not only took these transparent lies at face value, they specifically switched off the critical faculties inherent to journalism.

However in the months after the invasion, the pro-war party enjoyed a moment in the sun. The war had gone rapidly, there had been no Baathist counter-attack, and an undoubtably violent dictator had been got rid of. Many felt no problem in simply switching to an alternative rationale for the war — it had always been for human rights, and the best interests of the Iraqis. By the time sectarian fighting began in earnest in 2004, riots had already occurred (“stuff happens”: Donald Rumsfeld), the army had been disbanded and nothing put in its place. Waves of lethal and widespread violence followed, and did not stop, and so it soon became necessary to change the humanitarian defence of the war.

It was not what Saddam had been doing when his regime was interrupted, we were told, it was all that he had done in his 30-year reign of terror, including the entire Iran-Iraq war, the reprisals against the Kurds following their post-Gulf War uprising, the gassing of them — and even, a new note, the brutality of his police force towards women. Numbers were crunched, and a figure of several hundred thousands come up with. The process appeared to happen in stages: the Kurds were added first, then Saddam’s political killings in the 1970s (when he had enjoyed enthusiastic Western support). Each new addition occurred as the death rate went up in Iraq. By the time 3000 people a week were being murdered in Baghdad, the Iran-Iraq war had to be added to the total to make the current suffering commensurate with that in the past.Counting every single death at the hands of Saddam and his forces as a rationale for humanitarian intervention made it possible to ignore the fact that, for a decade, he had been a low-level thug, responsible, according to independent estimates by both Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, for between 1000-1500 political murders a year. That seemed relatively unchanging, and he was limited in any greater action by the “no-fly” zone. Was 1500 political killings a year — and the state of fear it engendered — worth the mayhem caused? Emphatically not.

By the height of Iraqi civil conflict, 1500 murders were happening in the country every three days. By no measure of just war or “responsibility to protect” could the huge violence of an armed invasion be justified. So, past killings were reached for. What was the rationale for their inclusion? It was never made clear. Any outbreak of large-scale violence by Saddam could have been dealt with by fresh bombing. So they existed in a twilight zone, where the rationale for invasion, de facto, became a sort of retrospective justice for the Iraqis. We created mass death on a vast scale, as an avenging for past death — without any guarantee it prevented future death (quite the reverse) and no explicit request from the Iraqi populace to do so.

By the time the killings reached their lethal height, there was the final absurdity of adding the Iran-Iraq war in. So the leaders of sovereign states were invading another sovereign state, because that latter sovereign state had invaded a third sovereign state — which state had not requested any assistance, and was itself lined up as a possible future target of attack and invasion.

By 2006-7, even this rationale was failing. By then we had had several waves of killings, the Abu Ghraib scandal, an entrenched sectarian slaughter, an ongoing war against occupying forces, and a basic failure to re-establish the most basic social and economic services, resulting in thousands of excess deaths. The climate of fear under Saddam had been focused around political opposition, real or imagined. Fear in post-occupation Iraq was universalised, liable to occur any time, any place. So millions moved, becoming internal and external refugees. Nor was there much joy in civil society. For some, their rights went backwards. The “imperial feminists” who had supported the war in the name of women found the new Iraq imposed Sharia law, with US support, reintroducing head-covering, the veil, driving women from professions and re-establishing patriarchal powers of local imams. Sunni and Shia neigbourhoods desegregated. Christians left en masse, under lethal and concerted attack.

And so, before the “surge” — that is, the mass bribery of Iraqi warlords — began, the final justification was deployed. We didn’t know it would happen this way, the war’s supporters said. Had we known we would not have supported it. This was put with the greatest mixture of honesty and prevarication by Norm Geras, co-author of The Euston Manifesto, in an October 15, 2006 posting on his blog titled, simply, “Failure in Iraq”, and coming on the heels of a Lancet report suggesting 600,000-plus excess deaths since the invasion:

… had I been able to foresee, in January and February 2003, that the war would have the results it has actually had in the numbers of Iraqis killed and the numbers now daily dying, with the country (more than three years down the line) on the very threshold of civil war if not already across that threshold, I would not have felt able to support the war and I would not have supported it. Measured, in other words, against the hopes of what it might lead to and the likelihoods as I assessed them, the war has failed. Had I foreseen a failure of this magnitude, I would have withheld my support. Even then, I would not have been able to bring myself to oppose the war. As I have said two or three times before, nothing on earth could have induced me to march or otherwise campaign for a course of action that would have saved the Baathist regime. But I would have stood aside.”

Geras, in the ’70s, had been a leader of the International Marxist Group, the far-left brigade most willing to give political support to the Provisional IRA. Doubtless, he views that as a mistake too. He appears to have made a few of them, far from the combat zone.

He has got it about as wrong as it’s possible to get, and his punishment is a weird exile in plain sight …”

This was the final position of the pro-war party, and it was, in what it proposed, the most stunningly amoral of all — for it ignored one of the key tenets of any “just war” approach, that a war is only just if its worst outcome is better than the status quo. Put simply: you broke it, you own it. You are morally obligated to recognise war is a fundamentally anarchic, uncontrollable process from the get-go. The pro-war faction was so utterly arrogant in their assessment of how the invasion would be greeted (according to Mark Steyn, within 18 months, Iraq would look like Connecticut), so desperate for a clarifying moral-political force, they paid no heed to its possible impact on the people it was conducted in the name of.

After Geras got off at Euston, the only people left arguing for the justice of the invasion were the late Christopher Hitchens — who argued that not enough people had been killed at Fallujah, where hundreds of Iraqi civilians had been killed by US forces tracking Fedayeen — and scattered groups of Maoists, who saw George W. Bush as representing the unfolding force of history (they were led in Australia by Albert Langer, who has now changed his name to Arthur Dent, as “a response to the absurdity of the world”). Nick Cohen and others were reduced to falsifying the casualty figures by orders of magnitude, and bleating that “liberals had lost their courage”.

What they had lost — and barely ever had — was shared ground with the fantasists in the media who attached themselves to Bush-Blair, ignored the most obvious evidence, and basic common sense, and pushed through for a mixture of blinkered ideology, and political and psychological need. People didn’t give up on foreign involvement, as was demonstrated by the mission in Libya. The mass of people simply turned out to be more sceptical, judicious and reasoning than Cohen and his ilk, which is a pretty piss-poor thing to say about a journalist.

Meanwhile, at the Chilcot inquiry, Blair was reduced to pleading that people credit that even if they disagreed with him they should accept he believed it was right — a tautologous and egotistical justification for a process that quite possibly delayed the Arab Spring proper by years, imposed a Shia stitch-up on a people that might have fashioned in a more genuinely liberating fashion — rather than the ongoing basket case that Patrick Cornwall has recently detailed.

That is what the pro-war Right and Left imposed on Iraq, why Blair goes all swivel-eyed whenever he is asked about it. Having backed a war people hadn’t asked for, and visiting misery on them, he then backed a dictator, Muammar Gaddafi, people were willing to give their lives to get rid of. He has got it about as wrong as it’s possible to get, and his punishment is a weird exile in plain sight, occupying useless jobs and shuttling between pointless pseudo-urgent negotiations.

He’s attended by a phalanx of earthbound enthusiasts, who joined his mission in search of their own meaning, a struggle that would give form to the slippery and bland politics of the West, a project for which the car bombs that yet go off in Baghdad a decade later serve as a reminder, shock without awe, failure’s cannonade.

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  • 1
    paddy
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Brilliant stuff Guy. Blair looks more deranged every time he sticks his head above the parapet. I just hope he lives long enough to be actually brought to trial.

  • 2
    john willoughby
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Kissingeritis:: noun
    a condition of the Polity in which it becomes angry and sullen, treating it with a poultice of bullshit was considered the time honoured remedy sometimes with adverse effects , resulting in direct irritation of the voters. A long confinement in quarantine is now the preferred remedy for those considered carriers..

  • 3
    Chrispy
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Where do Howard and Downer fit into all this?

  • 4
    David Hand
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Yes,
    Abject failure in Iraq.
    I was one who supported the war. I believed, and still do, that much of the opposition was ideologically driven. That is, antipathy towards the USA would drive opponents irrespective of the issue.

    What I failed to appreciate was the sheer incompetence, lack of vision, lack of compassion and lack of mission a “righteous war” would require. Bush and his cronies turned out to be duplicitous and corrupt.

    This is all with the benefit of hindsight. Blair looks pathetic. He would be better off by simply saying “OK, I stuffed up. Badly”

    Even though one might argue that the sectarian violence that killed so many was not perpetrated by the West, the fact that it occurred is a massive policy and vision failure that is hard to compare to anything else in my lifetime.

  • 5
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Bob Drogin’s book “Curveball” showed how an Iraqi who wanted to settle in Germany was able to bait their intelligence service with lies about ‘bio-warfare labs’ as payment for his freedom.

    What is more astonishing, is that the CIA never laid eyes on the man, but took the German reports, and inflated them to that status of credible facts, and the officers who knew otherwise were silenced and pushed out.

    The CIA gave the ‘boss’ what he wanted: an excuse for a war.

    And remember the hordes who protested all around the world? They could smell a fraud, but of course ‘democracy’ doesn’t really care about what the masses think.

  • 6
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    Pray tell, why??????

  • 7
    nigel@uow.edu.au
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Much is clearly true here, though it is untrue to argue that the pro war ‘left liberals’ developed the ‘to oust a muderous dictator’ line post hoc. Christopher Hitchens, arguably the most prominent, and consistent, of these pro war liberals, took that position from beginning to end.
    BTW, as I recall, “you break it, you own it” was attributed to Colin Powells cautionary comments to Bush.

  • 8
    Microseris
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Guy the voice of our conscience. Perfect example of Churchill’s - history is (re)written by the victors, quote.

    Pathetic how H*ward was happy to demonise and dog whistle up opposition to the refugees fleeing this conflict when he was an enthusiastic deputy sheriff (with Blair) who lent their (albeit limited) legitimacy to the US invasion and occupation.

  • 9
    Will
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Absolutely brilliant stuff, Guy.

    Your dissection of the sophistry inherent in the ever-collapsing rationale for the Iraq War is masterful.

    Cohen’s attempt at special pleading a binary counter-factual (Saddam yay/nay) is indeed a red herring and a fundamental violation of the basic precepts of just war theory.

    The prominent war boosters were always going to be in serious trouble mounting a credible defence. But it hasn’t helped that so few ever seriously engaged with their opponents arguments. Instead they relied on trite strawman arguments about anti-Americanism and the absence of a protest movement around the Ba’athist, or blatant revisionism about what the intelligence agencies had said.

    Those people, like poor Peter Beinart, who actually wanted to rescue their reputation have long since recanted their position, leaving behind a besieged bunch of neo-conservatives and Trotskyst apologists who hoisted their mast to false moral certainty.

  • 10
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    In seperate paragraphs then:

    1.Bob Drogin’s book “Curveball” showed how an Iraqi who wanted to settle in Germany was able to bait their intelligence service with lies about ‘bio-warfare labs’ as payment for his freedom.

  • 11
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Come on Crikey!

    Your ‘moderation’ is an utter misnomer!

    It amounts to arbitrary censorship.

    Please get your act together.

  • 12
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    An hour later it’s out of ‘moderation’ but no reason given as to why it was in the first place.

    It’s a joke, surely?

  • 13
    Bill Hilliger
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    End product of it all, oil now flows freely and unimpeded to western companies. The hapless Iraqi’s get to keep the spent uranium, unexploded ordinance and the misery that follows from the spent uranium and unexploded ordinance as well as the ongoing sectarian violence that the war was meant to stop. The brave leaders of the western alliances involved (including some Australians) wont see their day in a The Hague court for war crimminals to answer for their actions. I do wonder if Saddam’s regime (as bad as it was) would have created as much collateral damage as our brave western alliance did.

  • 14
    Steve777
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    The need to finish what Neocon hawks saw as the unfinished business of the first Gulf War was discussed in right wing circles in the US long before 9/11. The invasion of Iraq in the early 21st century was always a hare-brained scheme to bring about a geopolitical environment in the Middle East more friendly to the USA via the quick and relatively painless (to the US) removal of Saddam followed by a sort of domino effect on other regimes. It was never going to work.

  • 15
    zut alors
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Christopher Dunne, you used a 4 letter plural of the word which means ‘not factual’, it always gets caught in the Crikey net.

    A terrific piece, Guy. Iraq was a sham right from the beginning, confirmed when The R0dent gave a speech justifying Oz involvement - wringing it, he cited Hussein’s regime being guilty of ‘gouging out the eyes of babies.’ The image was blatantly aimed at our heart strings, thoroughly connived. I rate it one of his lowest moments (amid heavy competition).

  • 16
    Max Hart
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE

    The moderation is quite OK & anything we post here should meet certain standards & that they’re set by Crikey is fine with me.

    I only wish that in previous times the SMH had’ve done it when Malcome Brown tore me to bits on behalf of his mate Eddy O’Beid.

    3 weeks later & a few lines at the bottom of page 19 was all I got.

    Good on you Crickey, keep the moderation going.

  • 17
    Will
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Cohen is not alone in getting Iraq completely wrong. I feel it’s important to catalogue these and remember these for posterity. So I wonder if Crikey readers can supply some further names of the local genus?

    I’m thinking here of Pamela Bone and Tony Parkinson at The Age who wrote impassioned but poorly reasoned pieces on the subject. Anyone else. I remember how difficult it was to find sane voices at that time.

  • 18
    Max Hart
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    By the way, Guy Rundle, thanks for a very good article.

    So refreshing after the MSM.

    A great read & i hope will be read by many people becasue come Sept when abott gets in, they’ll be looking longingly at Iran & more Aussie kids will be murdered by coward, abbott & bromyn broomstick.

  • 19
    michael crook
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Shame on you Guy, we dont want to know this stuff, because to know it is to acknowledge that we are responsible and to assuage our guilt have to make sure it doesn’t happen again, and that is just too hard. Let us bury our heads back in the sand and pretend that we are still the goodies, please Guy, stop this now.

  • 20
    CHRISTOPHER DUNNE
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Zut, so we cannot use the English now?

    Next time I’ll revert to Latin.

    What a sham.

  • 21
    81dvl
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    My God….

    Stunning (literally) article!

    At the begining of it all I remember when, in a brief appearance from Bush’s colon, John Howard announced Australia’s involvement, with the assurance “..and remember, we’re talking weeks, not months or years.”

    I felt so sick I had to go outside.

    I can feel it again.

  • 22
    j.oneill
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Brilliant analysis Guy. I have just a couple of questions. First, why is that our much vaunted free press (mainstream version) will not publish a comparable version.

    Secondly, how is that Howard and his fellow travellers in Cabinet are still walking free and not in the dock in The Hague.

    Thirdly, are we not seeing a repeat performance in the multiple lies, distortions and misrepresentations being told about Iran’s “nuclear weapons program”, all of which is no doubt part of the conditioning process for when Australia next follows the US into an illegal war.

    One might have thought that after Vietnam the Australian public would not be so gullible again.

  • 23
    mattsui
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Hundreds of thousands (by my estimate, possibly 10% of the population) of Australians took to the streets of capital and regional cities to say NO to this disaster before it began. We were ignored.
    Little hope, I suppose, that any of the bstrds that caused this war will ever be brought to justice?
    Bush, Blair, Howard are now complicit in the deaths of Iraqis on a smimilar scale to Hussein. But they have no fear of meeting a smimilar fate.
    If the “leaders” of our “democracies” could be called to account for their crimes, there’s a fair chance that this sort of disgrace could be avoided in the future.

  • 24
    Damien
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Great article. I read it to my kids.

  • 25
    shepherdmarilyn
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Thank you, I am sick to death of the likes of Nick Cohen ranting against people like me who have never supported this illegal attack on Iraq.

  • 26
    James Burke
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    All good points Guy, but you’ve omitted to mention 9/11, which was the real pretext offered to Americans, or the war against the Taliban and al-Qaeda, which was all but abandoned in the effort to pursue this adventure on behalf of the corrupt neo-cons and their cronies in Saudi Arabia. Maybe having an actual justification for the Afghan war, plus UN backing and international goodwill, proved too much for the neo-cons and their basic instincts towards criminality. The result is failure on all fronts, unless you count the swollen wallets of the Republican bandits involved in looting Iraq.

  • 27
    Christopher Nagle
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    General Ian Hamilton, the ill fated initial military commander in the Dardenelles once famously quipped that the only thing certain about a war is that at least one side was bound not to win. And of course, if he is right, it makes it easy for armchair critics like Rundle to come out looking morally valiant and intellectually incisive in the masterly glow of hindsight, as he deftly selects and edits his way through a narrative that buttresses his anti-American prejudices.

  • 28
    pertina1
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Excellent piece Guy…tragic Howard, Downer and the rest of the then Australian leadership not equally being held to account. President Bush hides from public view, Tony Blair at least tries to justify himself but our own down-under brown-nosers seem to be Teflon-coated….sadly we don’t have a free press in Australia.

  • 29
    mattsui
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    @ Christopher Nagle
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 6:53 pm
    Kindly regale us with all the positive outcomes and good news stories Rundle has “edited out”. I’m sure you have a massive list.
    As for hindsight, as I mentioned earlier, millions of people across the globe saw this for the disaster it is before it began, said as much and were blithely ighnored.
    You’re right about one thing. War is for losers.

  • 30
    burninglog
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    This is why I subscribe.

  • 31
    AR
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    It was ruefully acknowledged by one of the prime proponents of invasion that “..it would have been cheaper to buy the oil than try to steal it”. Actually most of it goes directly to Europe(read France via ELF & other french companies) using the Syrian (err..umm..) pipelines.
    It seems that bLIAR has long since paid off his Euston Square mansion flat, purchased pre retirement on a mortgage which could not possibly have been paid on his PM salary even including Cherrie’s silk earnings.

  • 32
    AR
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Zut - you omit his reference (also Lord Bunter the Downer)to the human shredding machines.

  • 33
    Patriot
    Posted Friday, 8 March 2013 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Saddam good, Blair bad. That’s what the loony left are peddling today. You people are just plain nuts!

  • 34
    mattsui
    Posted Saturday, 9 March 2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    The trolls are getting slower, eh?

  • 35
    Damien
    Posted Saturday, 9 March 2013 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Christopher Nagle, you’re quip attributed to General Hamilton makes Rundle’s point. It seems he was forced into the Dardenelles campaign by impulsive, chauvinistic politicians with insufficient intelligence, preparation and strategy and was too subservient to stand up to them. A bit like the Bush Administration. Importantly, his campaign lacked coherent objectives, and when it became clear it wasn’t going to plan, festered like an open wound, causing untold misery. A bit like the Iraq invasion.

  • 36
    Posted Saturday, 9 March 2013 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    As Rundle demonstrated, even had Bush prosecuted the invasion of Iraq competently, the decision to invade Iraq was still wrong because it lacked justification. Furthermore, this was obvious at the time.

  • 37
    David Irving (no relation)
    Posted Saturday, 9 March 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Christopher Nagle, most of us who opposed the Iraq adventure knew right from the start that the justification for it was based on a series of falsehoods. There’s no hindsight required.

    Some of us are old enough to have opposed the Great Military Adventure in Vietnam as well, and for the same reason. Menzies was, at heart, as mendacious as Howard.

  • 38
    dazza
    Posted Saturday, 9 March 2013 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Christ Nagle, what is it with the US and their constant “if you say anything against us You’re anti-American’ . So what. And don’t forget, not all Americans think like you do, in fact you’d be in the minority with your world view. How anyone with half a brain could not realise we went to war based on nothing but lies is beyond me.

  • 39
    cnewt27
    Posted Sunday, 10 March 2013 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    As ever the Australian msm treats Afghanistan and Iraq as if they have nothing to do with us. The ABC has a policy of “it’s only news if it’s on the front of The Australian” and they will never put Howard and Iraq in the same story since it went so utterly ugly. Lost track of the number of times ABC news stories on Afghanistan use the creepy phrase ‘our presence” there. Kind of like talking about the “presence” of Germans in Russia during Barbarossa. The ABC just rolls those endless loops of ADF(sic) videos of coffins being loaded,landed, funerals with PM/OL and actually talks of “casualties” meaning only ADF casualties. Shameful stuff. BTW how does Australia rank in the world league of involvement in ugly, unnecessary wars? Starting with Boer War upwards.

  • 40
    michael crook
    Posted Sunday, 10 March 2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Thank you cnewt.

  • 41
    Mike Flanagan
    Posted Sunday, 10 March 2013 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Thanks Guy for the above, but I suggest, to really get to the essence of the reasons on why we illegally entered Iraq, maybe we shound look as early as 1917 in the Balfour Declaration.
    The American Zionist lobby harnessede both the press and the right wing of US politics to rid themselves of their perceived threat of Hussien. And as you point out, its’ reasoning was quite duplicitious and built on a national paranoia displayed by Israel and the same Zionist Lobby
    This national paranoia is evident today. From Syria to Iran, and the multitude of Middle East political and social instabilities, are driven by both Israeli and British foreign policy and their operatives.
    Without the duplicity of both British and other colonial powers of bygone years and the Balfour Declaration we would possibly not have put two such traditional arch enemies in such proximity.
    Members of the British political elite did offer the Zionist’s Uganda, and I might add without the slightest reference to the Ugandans.
    The unfortunate reality, that American Middle East Foreign Policy has been captured by Zionist/Israeli lobby means we, unfortunately, are to repeat the same mistakes with these military adventures, until such time we are able to resolve the Palestinian dispossession with the contradictory policies established by this duplicitious document, negotiated between a foreign minister of the crown and bloody banker.

  • 42
    Ian
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Great piece Guy and most of the comments too.

    Blair and all the others responsible for the wholesale destruction of Iraq (and for that matter many other countries) need to be brought to account in the same way Saddam was for the atrocities he committed. The fact that they have not been by the regimes that replaced those of Bush, Blair and Howard should tell us something…something not good and something we should do everything in our power to address.

    Now we have Iran, the latest target being treated in exactly the same way as Iraq was in the lead up to the invasion by the US and its partners in crime. Devastating sanctions in response to distorted claims of nuclear arms threats are weakening the capability of Iran to defend itself when the US/Israeli plus sundry allies like Australia attack comes.

    We should also not forget that most of South America is only now coming out of the a long period of US supported dictatorial regimes that brought misery and economic stagnation to that region.

    But what can we the people of Australia, which is still a democracy, do to prevent the ongoing wars we are party to. Nothing much I suppose but we could at least stop voting into power those who support these ongoing attacks on other countries. And, lets be clear, Labor and Julia Gillard are no less inclined to distance themselves from US lead aggression than are the Liberals.

  • 43
    Ian
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    What now for God’s sake?

  • 44
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    GR: First class article. But why, oh why, was/is it so easy for journalists to pass off lies in place of the truth?

    Anyone with any comprehension of history should know that the British conquered Syria during WWI. After this ‘The mandate of Palestine was established, thus allowing the English to encourage greater Jewish immigration to Palestine.

    By 1970 the British had lost their empire and the baton was passed to America. Did the British and the Americans go to all this trouble out of the kindness of their hearts? Büllshït. The people who had all the oil were Arabs, people who still owed allegiance to their own tribe, rather than their country. This led to frequent internecine fights, and first the British, then the Americans perceived the creation of a Jewish state amongst a collection of Arab states, would maintain a constant state of tension and disorder.

    Is it so difficult to remember these simple facts? WMD be damned. As long as oil is coming out of Middle Eastern ground, so long will the West be motivated to keep the Middle Eastern temperature at boiling point.

    Iraq was no more about idealism to help the Iraqi people than Japanese whale hunting is about whale conservation.

  • 45
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    MIKE FLANAGAN: You’re almost right. If/when my article clears moderation you will see the correct order in which the events in the Middle East took place after 1917.

    Cheers

    V

  • 46
    Mike Flanagan
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Yes Venise I had the moderator in mind when posting. I look forward to your comments that Mother Superior has apparently fallen asleep on.

  • 47
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Hi Mike! Four hours later and it still hasn’t past the post! :(

  • 48
    Posted Monday, 11 March 2013 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Hi Mike. Four hours later and it still hasn’t past the post! I tried to send a reverse smilie with this and the comment was just deleted.

    Heigh ho

  • 49
    mikeb
    Posted Tuesday, 12 March 2013 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I did support the invasion at the time because, foolishly, the evidence to me looked convincing. If only those votes in Florida had been counted………all this might have been averted. For those interested in another perspective on American “foreign policy” you might want to check out “Oliver Stone’s Untold History of the United States”. Stone flies the red flag unashamedly however it’s well worth a look for an “alternative” POV.

  • 50
    Mike Flanagan
    Posted Tuesday, 12 March 2013 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Venise;
    At last they have found away to invigorate the somnolent Mother Superior!
    I agree the US led expediotionary forces of the Iraq illegal debacle were driven by sinister historic agreements essentially to satify the Zionist lobby but I feel you have given the ‘Froggy’s’ a free pass.
    Many of the Western Alliance governments were complicit in the post WW1 agreements with the Rothschild representatives of the Zionists.
    Much of the motivation in the Balfour Declaration was to divide the Jewish diaspora from any possibility to be a party to anti western (read English)forces they feared on continental europe.
    Discussions with either the Ugandans or the Palestinians was not part 0of their considerations.

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