Comments on: Greens try for rebranding in the face of a falling vote http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/ now with extra source Thu, 23 May 2013 10:53:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dirk Baltsly http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-240676 Dirk Baltsly Thu, 14 Mar 2013 02:29:44 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-240676 This is precisely the sort of political coverage that I turn to Crikey to *avoid*. Keane covers this like a horse race, "explaining" the motivations of politicians as merely moves to differentiate their "product". This both debases the value of politics and provides nothing that I couldn't get in the lame-stream media. Disappointing. This is precisely the sort of political coverage that I turn to Crikey to *avoid*. Keane covers this like a horse race, “explaining” the motivations of politicians as merely moves to differentiate their “product”. This both debases the value of politics and provides nothing that I couldn’t get in the lame-stream media. Disappointing.

]]> By: Liamj http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238638 Liamj Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:54:49 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238638 @ fractious - agree completely except that News Corpse hated of the Greens isn't irrational, it is entirely rational selfinterest, as Greens peace and sustainability policies are kryptonite to News Corpse promotion of war and hyperconsumption. @ fractious - agree completely except that News Corpse hated of the Greens isn’t irrational, it is entirely rational selfinterest, as Greens peace and sustainability policies are kryptonite to News Corpse promotion of war and hyperconsumption.

]]> By: Ian http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238614 Ian Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:29:24 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238614 The Greens' parting company with Labor may be overdue but it is nonetheless only a tactical decision. The real reason to vote Greens, as I do, is to do with values and sustainability. The Greens are a party that believes in social justice, environmental sustainability and the right of people in their own lives to do as they see fit (as long as it does not harm others). It is also a party that prefers peace to war and does not condemn others for merely being different. Little difference remains between Labor and the LNP and what difference there is has to do with the character of their leadership and the history of the party. One party may at any one time be even more mean-spirited than the other and may have a greater tendency to privatize every thing in sight than the other but so what? Our elections are almost as much about who you put first on the ballot list as who you put last. In my mind Abbott certainly deserves to fill the latter spot. The Greens’ parting company with Labor may be overdue but it is nonetheless only a tactical decision. The real reason to vote Greens, as I do, is to do with values and sustainability. The Greens are a party that believes in social justice, environmental sustainability and the right of people in their own lives to do as they see fit (as long as it does not harm others). It is also a party that prefers peace to war and does not condemn others for merely being different.

Little difference remains between Labor and the LNP and what difference there is has to do with the character of their leadership and the history of the party. One party may at any one time be even more mean-spirited than the other and may have a greater tendency to privatize every thing in sight than the other but so what?

Our elections are almost as much about who you put first on the ballot list as who you put last. In my mind Abbott certainly deserves to fill the latter spot.

]]> By: el tel http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238533 el tel Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:46:16 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238533 Christine Milne's whole "The Labor Party made us do this" tone speaks volumes for her own preparedness to acknowledge her own party's political decisions over the last two years. At some point after 2013, The Greens will have to consider what it means to be a "10 per cent" party that can only ever hope to have influence on one of the major parties, which is in turn vulnerable to the accusation of being overly influenced by that minor party. In the absence of a shift to proportional representation, this is going to be an endemic dilemma for The Greens Christine Milne’s whole “The Labor Party made us do this” tone speaks volumes for her own preparedness to acknowledge her own party’s political decisions over the last two years. At some point after 2013, The Greens will have to consider what it means to be a “10 per cent” party that can only ever hope to have influence on one of the major parties, which is in turn vulnerable to the accusation of being overly influenced by that minor party. In the absence of a shift to proportional representation, this is going to be an endemic dilemma for The Greens

]]> By: fractious http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238526 fractious Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:57:40 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238526 @yea eh Well of *course* the MSM's concerted efforts have had (and are having) an effect, when did I say otherwise? Don't forget Limited News openly declared they were out to "destroy" the Greens. I suspect the continued attacks on this ALP-Green-Indies minority govt are at least partly driven by that irrational hatred of the Greens, and I also suspect certain other big business interests loathe the minority govt because they can't control it as easily as they could a government with a parliamentary majority. Re your lecture on minority parties not getting everything they want when part of an alliance - you mean it's all about compromise? Gosh, who knew? Your voting intentions are your own business - I tend to place my vote with the party whose policies and principles most align with mine, more or less regardless of their leader. @yea eh
Well of *course* the MSM’s concerted efforts have had (and are having) an effect, when did I say otherwise? Don’t forget Limited News openly declared they were out to “destroy” the Greens. I suspect the continued attacks on this ALP-Green-Indies minority govt are at least partly driven by that irrational hatred of the Greens, and I also suspect certain other big business interests loathe the minority govt because they can’t control it as easily as they could a government with a parliamentary majority. Re your lecture on minority parties not getting everything they want when part of an alliance - you mean it’s all about compromise? Gosh, who knew? Your voting intentions are your own business - I tend to place my vote with the party whose policies and principles most align with mine, more or less regardless of their leader.

]]> By: yeah, eh http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238519 yeah, eh Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:58:38 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238519 and another thing. Just because a party helps another party to gain government doesn't mean that your party can expect to get all their hopes and dreams across the line in one fell swoop. Big picture. (for the record, I voted green last few times. This time JG gets my vote). and another thing. Just because a party helps another party to gain government doesn’t mean that your party can expect to get all their hopes and dreams across the line in one fell swoop. Big picture.
(for the record, I voted green last few times. This time JG gets my vote).

]]> By: yeah, eh http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238518 yeah, eh Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:54:08 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238518 perhaps there was a lingering hope in the Green Party that "the ALP would at least attempt to honour those parts of the agreement that related to transparency and promoting the national interest, Whatever. The problem the ALP has is not differentiation from the Greens, but from the Coalition. In my view one principal reason support for the ALP is in the doldrums is because, left to its own devices, it is merely a slightly less unhinged version of the LNP" .... Wouldn't have anything to do with Rupert n Gina controlling our media, would it? As far as I can see, JG's government has been open to scrutiny by all and sundry. And I don't believe that the work that this government has done puts them into the doldrums. I'm disappointed that Christine Milne gave the excuse that she did for cutting ties with the government. Disingenuous. I don't blame her for doing it in the party's best interest as she sees it, but to give that piss weak excuse..... perhaps there was a lingering hope in the Green Party that “the ALP would at least attempt to honour those parts of the agreement that related to transparency and promoting the national interest,
Whatever. The problem the ALP has is not differentiation from the Greens, but from the Coalition. In my view one principal reason support for the ALP is in the doldrums is because, left to its own devices, it is merely a slightly less unhinged version of the LNP”
…. Wouldn’t have anything to do with Rupert n Gina controlling our media, would it?
As far as I can see, JG’s government has been open to scrutiny by all and sundry. And I don’t believe that the work that this government has done puts them into the doldrums.
I’m disappointed that Christine Milne gave the excuse that she did for cutting ties with the government. Disingenuous.
I don’t blame her for doing it in the party’s best interest as she sees it, but to give that piss weak excuse…..

]]> By: Andybob http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238502 Andybob Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:52:01 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238502 Tired of the gentler, kinder polity Scott ? Tired of the gentler, kinder polity Scott ?

]]> By: Joel http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238498 Joel Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:34:59 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238498 Pedantic: Australia has preferential voting. So it may directly, effectively, in the senate, and, hey, you can preference the lesser of two evils otherwise. Pedantic: Australia has preferential voting. So it may directly, effectively, in the senate, and, hey, you can preference the lesser of two evils otherwise.

]]> By: Scott http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238494 Scott Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:16:45 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238494 Speaking for myself, a liberal, I would rather a majority labor government for another three years than the rubbish situation we have experienced recently; with the two major parties deadlocked and the cross benches stacked with independents and minor parties, full of their own importance. Bring back the duopoly in politics! Speaking for myself, a liberal, I would rather a majority labor government for another three years than the rubbish situation we have experienced recently; with the two major parties deadlocked and the cross benches stacked with independents and minor parties, full of their own importance.
Bring back the duopoly in politics!

]]> By: Gerry Hatrick, OAP http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238486 Gerry Hatrick, OAP Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:07:23 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238486 That's always my issue with looking at small samples like the greens in a wider context, in NSW, population of 7.2 million, sample of 1282 gives 128 greens voters - find 10 more in your sample, and that hits your 10.7%. It would be like polling for KAP support in SE brissy, the results would jump around so much I wouldn't bother reading them. My own bugbear, but that's statistics for you! That’s always my issue with looking at small samples like the greens in a wider context, in NSW, population of 7.2 million, sample of 1282 gives 128 greens voters - find 10 more in your sample, and that hits your 10.7%.

It would be like polling for KAP support in SE brissy, the results would jump around so much I wouldn’t bother reading them. My own bugbear, but that’s statistics for you!

]]> By: fractious http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238485 fractious Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:59:03 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238485 "differentiate your product" Ye gods I hate that expression. Nonetheless what's happened has happened and - aside from guaranteeing support for supply bills - the marriage of convenience is annulled. Why it took this long I have no idea - perhaps there was a lingering hope in the Green Party that the ALP would at least attempt to honour those parts of the agreement that related to transparency and promoting the national interest, even if its stance on matters like religious interference in education and marraige equality left a lot to be desired. Perhaps the Tarkine decision by Tony Burke, the Minister for <strike>Mining</strike> Environment, really was the last straw - it would have affected Milne personally and probably affected the Green Senate vote (at least in Tasmania). At the very least it would have been a lightning rod for all the recent approvals by the ALP for further mining exploration in NSW and Queensland, not to mention its silence on asylum seekers and Assange. Whatever. The problem the ALP has is not differentiation from the Greens, but from the Coalition. In my view one principal reason support for the ALP is in the doldrums is because, left to its own devices, it is merely a slightly less unhinged version of the LNP. It is as much a lackey to Big Business and the "Growth Is Good" credo as the LNP, the only difference being it dresses up its neoliberal tendencies in slightly less alarming terms. “differentiate your product”

Ye gods I hate that expression. Nonetheless what’s happened has happened and - aside from guaranteeing support for supply bills - the marriage of convenience is annulled. Why it took this long I have no idea - perhaps there was a lingering hope in the Green Party that the ALP would at least attempt to honour those parts of the agreement that related to transparency and promoting the national interest, even if its stance on matters like religious interference in education and marraige equality left a lot to be desired.

Perhaps the Tarkine decision by Tony Burke, the Minister for Mining Environment, really was the last straw - it would have affected Milne personally and probably affected the Green Senate vote (at least in Tasmania). At the very least it would have been a lightning rod for all the recent approvals by the ALP for further mining exploration in NSW and Queensland, not to mention its silence on asylum seekers and Assange.

Whatever. The problem the ALP has is not differentiation from the Greens, but from the Coalition. In my view one principal reason support for the ALP is in the doldrums is because, left to its own devices, it is merely a slightly less unhinged version of the LNP. It is as much a lackey to Big Business and the “Growth Is Good” credo as the LNP, the only difference being it dresses up its neoliberal tendencies in slightly less alarming terms.

]]> By: Hugh (Charlie) McColl http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238481 Hugh (Charlie) McColl Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:49:51 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238481 Pedantic, no one gets to vote for the Greens without, at the same time, voting for all the other candidates on the ballot paper. If they put the Greens first (so they get the $2 funding) and every other non-major next down the list, they still have to decide at the very end whether to put Gillard's party ahead or behind Abbott's party. No one can avoid this choosing unless they want to waste their vote (and very few will be wasting their vote this time around). I would just love to have another hung parliament and watch Tony Abbott cross himself as he faces the dangerous cliff face of COMPROMISE. This election will be nothing like the Queensland debacle. There's a whole lot of different dynamics out there - particularly as Tony Abbott is a much better known quantity than Campbell Newman and there's much more confusion about whether Julia Gillard is a disaster or whether the problem for her has been the minority government. Abbott's non-exposure is going to cause him trouble at some stage and when it does the polls will go haywire. Pedantic, no one gets to vote for the Greens without, at the same time, voting for all the other candidates on the ballot paper. If they put the Greens first (so they get the $2 funding) and every other non-major next down the list, they still have to decide at the very end whether to put Gillard’s party ahead or behind Abbott’s party. No one can avoid this choosing unless they want to waste their vote (and very few will be wasting their vote this time around). I would just love to have another hung parliament and watch Tony Abbott cross himself as he faces the dangerous cliff face of COMPROMISE. This election will be nothing like the Queensland debacle. There’s a whole lot of different dynamics out there - particularly as Tony Abbott is a much better known quantity than Campbell Newman and there’s much more confusion about whether Julia Gillard is a disaster or whether the problem for her has been the minority government. Abbott’s non-exposure is going to cause him trouble at some stage and when it does the polls will go haywire.

]]> By: Hamis Hill http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238473 Hamis Hill Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:18:27 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238473 Should the federation of Greens State Parties abandon all this Tasmanian leadershit in favour of the four decade-old international principle of grass-roots participatory democracy as per the Sydney Green Bans success of 1972,( incidentally, where the name of the international "Greens" movement came from) then their support will begin to grow out of the period of "Brown" stagnation. "The Greens are not a Senate Party", quote. Should the federation of Greens State Parties abandon all this Tasmanian leadershit in favour of the four decade-old international principle of grass-roots participatory democracy as per the Sydney Green Bans success of 1972,( incidentally, where the name of the international “Greens” movement came from) then their support will begin to grow out of the period of “Brown” stagnation.
“The Greens are not a Senate Party”, quote.

]]> By: Pedantic, Balwyn http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238470 Pedantic, Balwyn Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:07:17 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238470 Many believe that there is a growing understanding that this will be an election with polar opposed objectives; for one group elect Abbott, for the other group vote for the party that has any chance of stopping him taking the reins of government. On that basis those who want to take us back in time will vote for Abbott, including some on the left; whilst all those who seek a better future including liberals, the realistic left and Greens will vote for Gillard. Voting for the Greens per se will not keep Abbott out of office. Many believe that there is a growing understanding that this will be an election with polar opposed objectives; for one group elect Abbott, for the other group vote for the party that has any chance of stopping him taking the reins of government.
On that basis those who want to take us back in time will vote for Abbott, including some on the left; whilst all those who seek a better future including liberals, the realistic left and Greens will vote for Gillard.

Voting for the Greens per se will not keep Abbott out of office.

]]> By: Christopher Nagle http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238460 Christopher Nagle Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:40:35 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238460 The main problem for the Greens is that the Green agenda has such enormous implications for the way our economy will have to work in order to be even vaguely sustainable. To garner the very substantial constituency necessary to support this extremely difficult and very broad industrial agenda is always going to be horrendously difficult. So why would you sabotage the possibility of getting it up by running a fairies-at-the-bottom-of-the-garden social agenda? Why would you let the homosexual lobby hijack the most important economic agenda since the beginning of the industrial revolution, even if you agreed with it, which I don't? The main problem for the Greens is that the Green agenda has such enormous implications for the way our economy will have to work in order to be even vaguely sustainable. To garner the very substantial constituency necessary to support this extremely difficult and very broad industrial agenda is always going to be horrendously difficult. So why would you sabotage the possibility of getting it up by running a fairies-at-the-bottom-of-the-garden social agenda?

Why would you let the homosexual lobby hijack the most important economic agenda since the beginning of the industrial revolution, even if you agreed with it, which I don’t?

]]> By: JMNO http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238408 JMNO Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:23:26 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238408 Tony Burke has just made a decision not to protect the Tarkine and has approved (with conditions) coalseam gas projects in NSW which if they go ahead will threaten old growth forest and koala habitat not to mention prime farming land. Also the Greens asked the Government to consider overhauling the mining tax and they have refused. Whilst electoral considerations were no doubt paramount, these decisions could have precipitated the move by the Greens. I don't think Labor should crow too loudly. Many disaffected Labor voters could well turn to the Greens. Tony Burke has just made a decision not to protect the Tarkine and has approved (with conditions) coalseam gas projects in NSW which if they go ahead will threaten old growth forest and koala habitat not to mention prime farming land. Also the Greens asked the Government to consider overhauling the mining tax and they have refused.

Whilst electoral considerations were no doubt paramount, these decisions could have precipitated the move by the Greens. I don’t think Labor should crow too loudly. Many disaffected Labor voters could well turn to the Greens.

]]> By: joanjett http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238407 joanjett Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:21:16 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238407 About time! What galls me is that the Labor govt has consistently taken the credit for Green policies. Dental cover in Medicare springs to mind. Yet they roll over and acquiesce to mining companies! Tony Burke is a liberal in everything but name. The Tarkin, CSG, fraking, the list goes on. About time! What galls me is that the Labor govt has consistently taken the credit for Green policies. Dental cover in Medicare springs to mind. Yet they roll over and acquiesce to mining companies! Tony Burke is a liberal in everything but name. The Tarkin, CSG, fraking, the list goes on.

]]> By: el tel http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238390 el tel Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:41:42 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238390 A Labor/Greens split should be very good for the Comments thread on Crikey. Nothing like those sorts of sectarian stoushes. A Labor/Greens split should be very good for the Comments thread on Crikey. Nothing like those sorts of sectarian stoushes.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238380 Stephen Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:16:02 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238380 Another point of view is that if she ever stood for anything at all (unlike the Prime Minister, who stands only for herself) why has it taken Milne so long to pull the plug, under so many layers of Labor double-dealing and hate-mail? What a wonderfully sardonic Australian touch, if we ask the Tarkine miners to clock up the devil roadkill. Another point of view is that if she ever stood for anything at all (unlike the Prime Minister, who stands only for herself) why has it taken Milne so long to pull the plug, under so many layers of Labor double-dealing and hate-mail?

What a wonderfully sardonic Australian touch, if we ask the Tarkine miners to clock up the devil roadkill.

]]> By: AR http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238374 AR Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:08:11 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238374 The ten per cent of the electorate/public showing signs of sentience seems to be a galactic constant; it may vary a little, plus or minus, but always one in ten people will be vegetarian, teetotal, pacifist, spiritual, prosaic, banal, religious, sociopath,socialist,grasping capitalist,leaders (sadly, followers are grossly overabundant),inspiring, maddening, desirable, repellent..etc. The problem is the combinations thereof. The puzzling propensity of the majority of people to follow what they know to be an absurdity - religion and its evil offspring, politics being only the most baleful in the banality. The ten per cent of the electorate/public showing signs of sentience seems to be a galactic constant; it may vary a little, plus or minus, but always one in ten people will be vegetarian, teetotal, pacifist, spiritual, prosaic, banal, religious, sociopath,socialist,grasping capitalist,leaders (sadly, followers are grossly overabundant),inspiring, maddening, desirable, repellent..etc.
The problem is the combinations thereof.
The puzzling propensity of the majority of people to follow what they know to be an absurdity - religion and its evil offspring, politics being only the most baleful in the banality.

]]> By: drovers cat http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/greens-try-for-rebranding-in-the-face-of-a-falling-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-238368 drovers cat Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:44:38 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=350004#comment-238368 yes, you said it: it's a small sample size. Green voters will in the main never vote for Tony Abbott. yes, you said it: it’s a small sample size.
Green voters will in the main never vote for Tony Abbott.

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