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	<title>Comments on: AWU scandal: this ends today, one way or another</title>
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		<title>By: Hunt Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230868</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230868</guid>
		<description>Well, well, David Hand, such inside information suggests you have a hand in all these events. David McTernan is no doubt behind all planned performances but I thought, along with other observers, that Julia Gillard&#039;s response to Tony had significant elements of spontaneity, taking up points Tony made (but no doubt McTernan anticipated all of these). In any case, however well planned Julia Gillard&#039;s speech, we can also be assured that Tony&#039;s speech was well planned too. You might even know who plans them, if it is not his PA. The question is whether, given preceding events, the public should take what she said as &quot;shameless&quot; and &quot;spiteful&quot;, if we suppose they were not planned  If it was planned, as you say, then the only question would be whether it was successful, which does depend on how people would take it. I agree with all those people who thought her speech was a good response to an attempt to &quot;wedge&quot; Gillard and a timely reminder of how many women would like to respond to belittling conduct from less than thoughtful men, if only they did not have to fear repercussions. I will keep drinking wine, thanks all the same David.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, well, David Hand, such inside information suggests you have a hand in all these events. David McTernan is no doubt behind all planned performances but I thought, along with other observers, that Julia Gillard&#8217;s response to Tony had significant elements of spontaneity, taking up points Tony made (but no doubt McTernan anticipated all of these). In any case, however well planned Julia Gillard&#8217;s speech, we can also be assured that Tony&#8217;s speech was well planned too. You might even know who plans them, if it is not his PA. The question is whether, given preceding events, the public should take what she said as &#8220;shameless&#8221; and &#8220;spiteful&#8221;, if we suppose they were not planned  If it was planned, as you say, then the only question would be whether it was successful, which does depend on how people would take it. I agree with all those people who thought her speech was a good response to an attempt to &#8220;wedge&#8221; Gillard and a timely reminder of how many women would like to respond to belittling conduct from less than thoughtful men, if only they did not have to fear repercussions. I will keep drinking wine, thanks all the same David.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230851</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230851</guid>
		<description>No Ian,
I am not suggesting at all that it was spite that led Julia to state &quot;I will not be lectured on s*xism by this man.  It was a carefully constructed strategy by John McTernan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Ian,<br />
I am not suggesting at all that it was spite that led Julia to state &#8220;I will not be lectured on s*xism by this man.  It was a carefully constructed strategy by John McTernan.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230849</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230849</guid>
		<description>Julia “provoked”???
She is following the playbook dictated by John Mcternan mate. nothing less.

There’s 11 long months before the next election unless she goes early, which I doubt. I have supreme confidence she will offer up more reasons why the voters should reject her between now and then, starting with ever more flimsy reasons why she hid the establishment of the AWU Workplace Reform Association fron the AWU.

Keep drinking the cool-aid , Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia “provoked”???<br />
She is following the playbook dictated by John Mcternan mate. nothing less.</p>
<p>There’s 11 long months before the next election unless she goes early, which I doubt. I have supreme confidence she will offer up more reasons why the voters should reject her between now and then, starting with ever more flimsy reasons why she hid the establishment of the AWU Workplace Reform Association fron the AWU.</p>
<p>Keep drinking the cool-aid , Ian</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230848</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230848</guid>
		<description>Juliar &quot;provoked&quot;???
She is following the playbook dictated by John Mcternan mate.  nothing less.

There&#039;s 11 long months before the next election unless she goes early, which I doubt.  I have supreme confidence she will offer up more reasons why the voters should reject her between now and then, starting with ever more flimsy reasons why she hid the establishment of the AWU Workplace Reform Association fron the AWU.

Keep drinking the cool-aid , Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juliar &#8220;provoked&#8221;???<br />
She is following the playbook dictated by John Mcternan mate.  nothing less.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s 11 long months before the next election unless she goes early, which I doubt.  I have supreme confidence she will offer up more reasons why the voters should reject her between now and then, starting with ever more flimsy reasons why she hid the establishment of the AWU Workplace Reform Association fron the AWU.</p>
<p>Keep drinking the cool-aid , Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230824</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 08:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230824</guid>
		<description>David Hand, I thought the gloves were off long ago when Tony started the ever popular &quot;Ju-liar&quot; campaign, which was joined by many other contributors in the media and &quot;shock-jock&quot; world, and which included such thoughtful contributions as Alan Jones&#039;s claim that Gillard&#039;s father had recently died of shame at his daughter&#039;s lies. 

How could you describe Julia Gillard as &quot;shameless&quot;, as though she lacked provocation when she turned on Tony. Tony after all was just simply trying to accuse her of hypocrisy on issues of gender if she was prepared to criticise such up-standing citizens as Alan Jones for sexism, while proposing to reject Tony&#039;s motion that the parliament  sack Slipper as speaker, and so defend Slipper&#039;s too terrible sexism, revealed in once private text messages commenting on how female genitalia looked. 

You suggest that only spite could lead Gillard to turn round and say &quot;I will not be lectured on sexism by this man&quot; and then give him both barrels. I think that she might have felt pushed a little to far by the long used GoP campaign book. In fact, since the campaign was in danger of being turned around it became more necessary to get back at her. True, you talk of the failed GoP campaign book and we can hope that its use in Australia will be equally successful. But I was simply taking the long, overall look at why  we are now to be bored into the ground with repeated allegations against Gillard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Hand, I thought the gloves were off long ago when Tony started the ever popular &#8220;Ju-liar&#8221; campaign, which was joined by many other contributors in the media and &#8220;shock-jock&#8221; world, and which included such thoughtful contributions as Alan Jones&#8217;s claim that Gillard&#8217;s father had recently died of shame at his daughter&#8217;s lies. </p>
<p>How could you describe Julia Gillard as &#8220;shameless&#8221;, as though she lacked provocation when she turned on Tony. Tony after all was just simply trying to accuse her of hypocrisy on issues of gender if she was prepared to criticise such up-standing citizens as Alan Jones for sexism, while proposing to reject Tony&#8217;s motion that the parliament  sack Slipper as speaker, and so defend Slipper&#8217;s too terrible sexism, revealed in once private text messages commenting on how female genitalia looked. </p>
<p>You suggest that only spite could lead Gillard to turn round and say &#8220;I will not be lectured on sexism by this man&#8221; and then give him both barrels. I think that she might have felt pushed a little to far by the long used GoP campaign book. In fact, since the campaign was in danger of being turned around it became more necessary to get back at her. True, you talk of the failed GoP campaign book and we can hope that its use in Australia will be equally successful. But I was simply taking the long, overall look at why  we are now to be bored into the ground with repeated allegations against Gillard.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230808</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 06:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230808</guid>
		<description>Keep drinking the cool-aid, Tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep drinking the cool-aid, Tony</p>
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		<title>By: tonyfunnywalker</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230692</link>
		<dc:creator>tonyfunnywalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 08:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230692</guid>
		<description>David Hand, 

A spiteful attack on Abbott,poor Tony, he made the running and is still behaving like a spoiled child who has lost his dummy when he was rejected as PM by the cross benches. 
Gillard&#039;s advisers are much smarter and as the Abbott think tank is driven by the OZ and Bolt it spells doom. Gillard had to break the cycle and the Mysogony speech was the vehicle and she did a great job in repositioning Abbott and his popularity as waned accordingly. 
For as long as the Liberals continue Gillard will be seen as the one who cares while Abbott is still trying to demonstrate his frailties. 

It was not the October issues but that Abbotts sole policy - repeal the Carbon Tax was a fizzer. 

He overeached with immoderate and hysterical comments which were with time proven to be wrong. 

Slipper/ Thompson were all about having an election before 1 July. 

The strategy failed and that&#039;s when Gillard took the gloves off buoyed with the Carbon Tax being a non event.

The confidence is obvious and she needed to pass that on to a sceptical front bench. With Kevin gone, they needed to be reaasured that they backed the right horse. 

There was some childish spite such as McLelland who sparked the AWU beatup but for the rest of the Party she looks a winner.
 
All she needs to do now is to keep winning and Dr Yes is perhaps a little late as he has a lot of ground to make up and Malcolm is lurking with intent. 

The Body Language of the Opposition when Bishop was stumbling was very revealing, they did not want to be there. 

The cross benches were engaged in other matters that were important to their electorates so they were token bystanders. 

After last week Public Service as an MP was degraded to the level of journalism - the gutter. 

Both are concerned with personal relevance  - its all ego centric and stuff the electorate lets make sure we keep the advertisers happy. 

Gillard can now be marketed as a winner and no one claps losers -- &quot;one hand clapping: as was demonstrated by the Opposition who the booed the Gillard announcement of Pontings retirement until they realised what she had announced. 

So is the level of respect shown in the Australian Parliament-- the South Africans today put our politicians to shame as well as our hopes of No1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Hand, </p>
<p>A spiteful attack on Abbott,poor Tony, he made the running and is still behaving like a spoiled child who has lost his dummy when he was rejected as PM by the cross benches.<br />
Gillard&#8217;s advisers are much smarter and as the Abbott think tank is driven by the OZ and Bolt it spells doom. Gillard had to break the cycle and the Mysogony speech was the vehicle and she did a great job in repositioning Abbott and his popularity as waned accordingly.<br />
For as long as the Liberals continue Gillard will be seen as the one who cares while Abbott is still trying to demonstrate his frailties. </p>
<p>It was not the October issues but that Abbotts sole policy - repeal the Carbon Tax was a fizzer. </p>
<p>He overeached with immoderate and hysterical comments which were with time proven to be wrong. </p>
<p>Slipper/ Thompson were all about having an election before 1 July. </p>
<p>The strategy failed and that&#8217;s when Gillard took the gloves off buoyed with the Carbon Tax being a non event.</p>
<p>The confidence is obvious and she needed to pass that on to a sceptical front bench. With Kevin gone, they needed to be reaasured that they backed the right horse. </p>
<p>There was some childish spite such as McLelland who sparked the AWU beatup but for the rest of the Party she looks a winner.</p>
<p>All she needs to do now is to keep winning and Dr Yes is perhaps a little late as he has a lot of ground to make up and Malcolm is lurking with intent. </p>
<p>The Body Language of the Opposition when Bishop was stumbling was very revealing, they did not want to be there. </p>
<p>The cross benches were engaged in other matters that were important to their electorates so they were token bystanders. </p>
<p>After last week Public Service as an MP was degraded to the level of journalism - the gutter. </p>
<p>Both are concerned with personal relevance  - its all ego centric and stuff the electorate lets make sure we keep the advertisers happy. </p>
<p>Gillard can now be marketed as a winner and no one claps losers&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;&#8220;one hand clapping: as was demonstrated by the Opposition who the booed the Gillard announcement of Pontings retirement until they realised what she had announced. </p>
<p>So is the level of respect shown in the Australian Parliament&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;the South Africans today put our politicians to shame as well as our hopes of No1.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230661</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 05:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230661</guid>
		<description>No Ian
The Coalition is going after Julia Gillard not because of admiration for the losing GOP campaign book but because of a shameless, spiteful attack on the character of Tony Abbott she made in parliament in October.  The gloves finally came off then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Ian<br />
The Coalition is going after Julia Gillard not because of admiration for the losing GOP campaign book but because of a shameless, spiteful attack on the character of Tony Abbott she made in parliament in October.  The gloves finally came off then.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230640</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 03:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230640</guid>
		<description>It is hard to see why David Hand doubts very much the implication of SB&#039;s comment &quot;You need to weed out corruption and fraud from top to bottom in every organisation where it has taken hold&quot; when coupled with her call for a judicial inquiry what happened in the AWU 17 years. Nor am I in denial about corruption in some trade unions, as SB claims.

As a trade unionist I am acutely aware of an ongoing campaign to hobble the capacity of trade unions to represent their members on behalf of the disappointment of those in business who think that the industrial relations climate does not give them enough power over their employees&#039; wages and conditions. This campaign is in turn hobbled by connection with &quot;Work Choices&quot;, which did very real damage to the capacity of trade unions to defend their members&#039; interests. 

So, I am not in the least inclined to support any campaign against union corruption that might serve as a trojan horse for the resurrection of individual agreements and loss of access to businesses or the ability to force businesses to negotiate agreements. Nor am I in the least inclined to believe that the Coalition is pursuing what happened 17 years ago because it believes thatby shining a light on union leaders who abuse their members trust it will strengthen trade union representation of their members. I am more inclined to think that they have shuffled through the US Republican campaign book for ways in which public character assassination will improve their chances to get in do what they like in government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is hard to see why David Hand doubts very much the implication of SB&#8217;s comment &#8220;You need to weed out corruption and fraud from top to bottom in every organisation where it has taken hold&#8221; when coupled with her call for a judicial inquiry what happened in the AWU 17 years. Nor am I in denial about corruption in some trade unions, as SB claims.</p>
<p>As a trade unionist I am acutely aware of an ongoing campaign to hobble the capacity of trade unions to represent their members on behalf of the disappointment of those in business who think that the industrial relations climate does not give them enough power over their employees&#8217; wages and conditions. This campaign is in turn hobbled by connection with &#8220;Work Choices&#8221;, which did very real damage to the capacity of trade unions to defend their members&#8217; interests. </p>
<p>So, I am not in the least inclined to support any campaign against union corruption that might serve as a trojan horse for the resurrection of individual agreements and loss of access to businesses or the ability to force businesses to negotiate agreements. Nor am I in the least inclined to believe that the Coalition is pursuing what happened 17 years ago because it believes thatby shining a light on union leaders who abuse their members trust it will strengthen trade union representation of their members. I am more inclined to think that they have shuffled through the US Republican campaign book for ways in which public character assassination will improve their chances to get in do what they like in government.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230593</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 01:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230593</guid>
		<description>@ Karen

The good news from last week is that Gillard will never recover and is destined to be replaced early in 2013 or suffer a Queensland like defeat come the election.   The anger out there is not reflected in the polls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Karen</p>
<p>The good news from last week is that Gillard will never recover and is destined to be replaced early in 2013 or suffer a Queensland like defeat come the election.   The anger out there is not reflected in the polls.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230592</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 01:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230592</guid>
		<description>@SB - &quot;Ex Labor Minister Costa recommends a Judicial enquiry as well? Ex Labor AG McLelland was the FIRST to raise the AWU scandal in Parliament. Explain that.&quot;

Easy. Its personal. They are both from the ALP Right and they both hate Julia. McClelland, especially, as he got sacked. Poor loser hasn&#039;t been able to cope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SB - &#8220;Ex Labor Minister Costa recommends a Judicial enquiry as well? Ex Labor AG McLelland was the FIRST to raise the AWU scandal in Parliament. Explain that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Easy. Its personal. They are both from the ALP Right and they both hate Julia. McClelland, especially, as he got sacked. Poor loser hasn&#8217;t been able to cope.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230591</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 01:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230591</guid>
		<description>Ian,
I doubt very much that SB thinks that the AWU today is corrupt from top to bottom.  You are engaging in the usual overstatement from friends of Julia towards those of us who have a low regard for the governance of the Union movement and are alarmed at the sense of entitlement their leaders display.

I&#039;ll say this for the AWU of today.  Their leader led a coup on 23 June 2010.  He did this by reminding ALP MPs who they really report to and threatened their pre-selection if they did not support a change of Prime Minister.  Such was his hubris, he even went on TV and boasted about it.

Gillard&#039;s behaviour 17 years ago may be old, but she is the Prime Minister and there is documented evidence of less than appropriate professional behaviour.  The opposition is going hard on it because it shines a window on how union officials do deals to get ahead and abuse and misuse their members trust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian,<br />
I doubt very much that SB thinks that the AWU today is corrupt from top to bottom.  You are engaging in the usual overstatement from friends of Julia towards those of us who have a low regard for the governance of the Union movement and are alarmed at the sense of entitlement their leaders display.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll say this for the AWU of today.  Their leader led a coup on 23 June 2010.  He did this by reminding ALP MPs who they really report to and threatened their pre-selection if they did not support a change of Prime Minister.  Such was his hubris, he even went on TV and boasted about it.</p>
<p>Gillard&#8217;s behaviour 17 years ago may be old, but she is the Prime Minister and there is documented evidence of less than appropriate professional behaviour.  The opposition is going hard on it because it shines a window on how union officials do deals to get ahead and abuse and misuse their members trust.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230582</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 23:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230582</guid>
		<description>@ Hunt Ian

I think you are in ddenial regarding the level of corruption in Labor and the Unions, take a look at the Corruption Commission in NSW, HSU, AWU, etc etc etc etc.  So much evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Hunt Ian</p>
<p>I think you are in ddenial regarding the level of corruption in Labor and the Unions, take a look at the Corruption Commission in NSW, HSU, AWU, etc etc etc etc.  So much evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230581</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 23:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230581</guid>
		<description>Suzanne Blake, are you saying that the AWU today is full of corruption from top to bottom? There has always been a problem in the trade union movement that representatives of workers have been &quot;duchessed&quot; by employers so that they represent their members less effectively than they could. 
In recent years, trade union officials have been tempted to get excessive salaries for themselves by excessive executive salaries in business. This varies from union to union but the HSU is a good recent example where top federal officials earned over $250 K for no real reason at all, since they occupied elected positions, which voided the usual excuse given to justify paying excessive salaries to CEOs-you had to attract them in an international market where others offered high salaries. 
But then perhaps you are just trying to engage in US Republican Party style character assassination, since the matters you want to enquire into occurred 17 years ago and are hardly likely to produce any change in the AWU, as it is today. The standard explanation for McLelland&#039;s reference to it is that it was a bit of mischief making, which hardly justifies a judicial inquiry. I have no idea what ex labor minister Costa is up to but I have never seen anything about him that would suggest he is an authoritative figure on the need for judicial inquiries. We would do better to ask ourselves why you wrap yourself in the Australian flag when you pursue partisan politics through Crikey comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suzanne Blake, are you saying that the AWU today is full of corruption from top to bottom? There has always been a problem in the trade union movement that representatives of workers have been &#8220;duchessed&#8221; by employers so that they represent their members less effectively than they could.<br />
In recent years, trade union officials have been tempted to get excessive salaries for themselves by excessive executive salaries in business. This varies from union to union but the HSU is a good recent example where top federal officials earned over $250 K for no real reason at all, since they occupied elected positions, which voided the usual excuse given to justify paying excessive salaries to CEOs-you had to attract them in an international market where others offered high salaries.<br />
But then perhaps you are just trying to engage in US Republican Party style character assassination, since the matters you want to enquire into occurred 17 years ago and are hardly likely to produce any change in the AWU, as it is today. The standard explanation for McLelland&#8217;s reference to it is that it was a bit of mischief making, which hardly justifies a judicial inquiry. I have no idea what ex labor minister Costa is up to but I have never seen anything about him that would suggest he is an authoritative figure on the need for judicial inquiries. We would do better to ask ourselves why you wrap yourself in the Australian flag when you pursue partisan politics through Crikey comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230512</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 20:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230512</guid>
		<description>@tonyfunnywalker

Ex Labor Minister Costa recommends a Judicial enquiry as well?   Ex Labor AG McLelland was the FIRST to raise the AWU scandal in Parliament.   Explain that.

You need to weed out corruption and fraud from top to bottom in every organisation where it has taken hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tonyfunnywalker</p>
<p>Ex Labor Minister Costa recommends a Judicial enquiry as well?   Ex Labor AG McLelland was the FIRST to raise the AWU scandal in Parliament.   Explain that.</p>
<p>You need to weed out corruption and fraud from top to bottom in every organisation where it has taken hold.</p>
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		<title>By: tonyfunnywalker</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230499</link>
		<dc:creator>tonyfunnywalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230499</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ian, 

It is one of the disappointments of the Liberals is the presumption of guilt- rather than that of innocence. Thompson/ Gillard and Slipper. It also suprises me about Brandis as he could be our next Attorney General - heaven forbid - he should have known better and other lawyers in the Party room should have warned Abbott and Bishop that they were running a high risk strategy by being fed from a fishing expedition by Michael Smith. 

They trawled the depths and came up with nothing tangible and when they left Abbott with nothing and Julie looking the fool (Julie I would have &quot;lost it&quot;  as well for what they did to you ) 

Abbott came up with a judicial enquiry in the hope that the issue would have gone away an dhe could &quot; save face&quot; .  

Cameron did that with the &#039;phone tapping &quot; scandal in the UK (especially as he was implicated in his appointment of Andy Coulson) and all it did was to come back and bite him, so much so he now rejects the key recommendations.

Fitzgerald in Queensland brought down the JBP Government. 

It may well spell the end of Cameron as well and like Abbott he does not have public opinion on his side any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ian, </p>
<p>It is one of the disappointments of the Liberals is the presumption of guilt- rather than that of innocence. Thompson/ Gillard and Slipper. It also suprises me about Brandis as he could be our next Attorney General - heaven forbid - he should have known better and other lawyers in the Party room should have warned Abbott and Bishop that they were running a high risk strategy by being fed from a fishing expedition by Michael Smith. </p>
<p>They trawled the depths and came up with nothing tangible and when they left Abbott with nothing and Julie looking the fool (Julie I would have &#8220;lost it&#8221;  as well for what they did to you ) </p>
<p>Abbott came up with a judicial enquiry in the hope that the issue would have gone away an dhe could &#8221; save face&#8221; .  </p>
<p>Cameron did that with the &#8216;phone tapping &#8221; scandal in the UK (especially as he was implicated in his appointment of Andy Coulson) and all it did was to come back and bite him, so much so he now rejects the key recommendations.</p>
<p>Fitzgerald in Queensland brought down the JBP Government. </p>
<p>It may well spell the end of Cameron as well and like Abbott he does not have public opinion on his side any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230489</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230489</guid>
		<description>Gee Wizz, sorry to disappoint you. There is now zero chance that Gillard will be dropped. Her change of mind about the carbon tax is now seen as a &quot;crime&quot; by fewer and fewer Australians. But if you think it is poison, by all means urge Tony to keep on campaigning against the Carbon tax, or trading scheme with three years of fixed price up front. The astonishing prejudice of the Liberal party is shown by none other than its resident lawyer Brandis, who has the cheek to say that setting up an association with the purpose of improving workplace safety is incompatible with setting up an association whose main strategy to improve workplace safety is to elect AWU officials who are members of the Association and thus committed to improving workplace safety. The West Australian Commission is in no way misled by that, even if Brandis&#039; Liberal Party prejudices prevent him from seeing that electing union officials who are committed to workplace safety is one way to promote workplace safety. Tony Abbott&#039;s final position was truly pathetic: Julia Gillard &quot;might have&quot; committed a crime (so might we all) and according to Tony&#039;s conception of ethics, is guilty of &quot;unethical&quot; conduct (so might we all be)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee Wizz, sorry to disappoint you. There is now zero chance that Gillard will be dropped. Her change of mind about the carbon tax is now seen as a &#8220;crime&#8221; by fewer and fewer Australians. But if you think it is poison, by all means urge Tony to keep on campaigning against the Carbon tax, or trading scheme with three years of fixed price up front. The astonishing prejudice of the Liberal party is shown by none other than its resident lawyer Brandis, who has the cheek to say that setting up an association with the purpose of improving workplace safety is incompatible with setting up an association whose main strategy to improve workplace safety is to elect AWU officials who are members of the Association and thus committed to improving workplace safety. The West Australian Commission is in no way misled by that, even if Brandis&#8217; Liberal Party prejudices prevent him from seeing that electing union officials who are committed to workplace safety is one way to promote workplace safety. Tony Abbott&#8217;s final position was truly pathetic: Julia Gillard &#8220;might have&#8221; committed a crime (so might we all) and according to Tony&#8217;s conception of ethics, is guilty of &#8220;unethical&#8221; conduct (so might we all be)</p>
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		<title>By: GeeWizz</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230444</link>
		<dc:creator>GeeWizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230444</guid>
		<description>Jimmy this is the same junk you said about Slippery Pete.

Remember how that ended up?

Gillard will probably be rolled early next year anyways because the ALP know they are stuffed with her. She&#039;s damaged goods since her &quot;No Carbon Tax under my Government&quot;.

No one believes a word she says anymore... and you don&#039;t take that kind of liability to an election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy this is the same junk you said about Slippery Pete.</p>
<p>Remember how that ended up?</p>
<p>Gillard will probably be rolled early next year anyways because the ALP know they are stuffed with her. She&#8217;s damaged goods since her &#8220;No Carbon Tax under my Government&#8221;.</p>
<p>No one believes a word she says anymore&#8230; and you don&#8217;t take that kind of liability to an election.</p>
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		<title>By: tonyfunnywalker</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-3/#comment-230418</link>
		<dc:creator>tonyfunnywalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 07:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230418</guid>
		<description>Julia, 
Why did you give Abbott the bat - He was pulling your pigtails again, fair enough. But he batted for 15 minuites and got out Trod on Wicket and this does not happen too often even for an out of form batsman. 

Now look what you done ---- you have Brandis taking off his parliamentary protective gear off and sledging. Perhaps he wants to bat and control the Senate?  

He could not do worse than Abbott- or could he, but the News / Bolt/ Smith team as coaches don&#039;t seem to think so. 

Now they are all in the nets with Abbott and some crazy idea for a judicial inquiry - how much is that going to cost the taxpayer? 

So far this circus has cost the country millions as we demonstrate Liberal Policy is driven by num- nuts who can&#039;t bowl, can&#039;t bat and can&#039;t throw ---- telling the Opposition Leader his tactics to win the next election. 

It defies logic and if Abbott thinks he is onto a winner then think again, the dummy spit behavour has not produced one iota of success so far ( remember the carbon tax) and all you are doing is crying over what might have been and because you aren&#039;t at the crease and you thought you deserved to be. You were not ready. 

Abbott you have to prove that you can bat and bowl.

You do not deserve to be on the team let alone captain at the moment and the best &quot;go to&quot;  players are on the bench but you won&#039;t give them any time in the nets in case they are able to bat or bowl better than you and Julie demonstrated when given the chance this week.  

Brandis is not a threat, neither is Julie after her poor bowling preformance, but the rest need net practice if you have any hope of winning this test series. 

The Perth Test is a case in point - Mitchell Johnson, written off by the pundits and look at the score board he is taking valuable wickets but not before he has prepared himmself wih a lot of practice and game time to get his confidence back, to be selected and then to reward his captain and preform. 

Abbott you need to get the score board ticking over and wasting taxpayers money on a judicial commission is not the way to do it.
 
A strong policy on Workplace Reform, NOW that&#039;s a different story. 

Pity you made a blue by NOT voting for Peter Reith as Chairman of Selectors,  he would have been an useful ally.  

The  News / Bolt/ Smith need to be seen to be relevant while they are making you irrelevant to the electorate.   

This is an election for once for an opposition to win rather than for the government to lose. 

Romney thought otherwise and look at what happened to him egged on by US num-nuts HE LOST THE UNLOOSEABLE election in a landslide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia,<br />
Why did you give Abbott the bat - He was pulling your pigtails again, fair enough. But he batted for 15 minuites and got out Trod on Wicket and this does not happen too often even for an out of form batsman. </p>
<p>Now look what you done&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;you have Brandis taking off his parliamentary protective gear off and sledging. Perhaps he wants to bat and control the Senate?  </p>
<p>He could not do worse than Abbott- or could he, but the News / Bolt/ Smith team as coaches don&#8217;t seem to think so. </p>
<p>Now they are all in the nets with Abbott and some crazy idea for a judicial inquiry - how much is that going to cost the taxpayer? </p>
<p>So far this circus has cost the country millions as we demonstrate Liberal Policy is driven by num- nuts who can&#8217;t bowl, can&#8217;t bat and can&#8217;t throw&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;telling the Opposition Leader his tactics to win the next election. </p>
<p>It defies logic and if Abbott thinks he is onto a winner then think again, the dummy spit behavour has not produced one iota of success so far ( remember the carbon tax) and all you are doing is crying over what might have been and because you aren&#8217;t at the crease and you thought you deserved to be. You were not ready. </p>
<p>Abbott you have to prove that you can bat and bowl.</p>
<p>You do not deserve to be on the team let alone captain at the moment and the best &#8220;go to&#8221;  players are on the bench but you won&#8217;t give them any time in the nets in case they are able to bat or bowl better than you and Julie demonstrated when given the chance this week.  </p>
<p>Brandis is not a threat, neither is Julie after her poor bowling preformance, but the rest need net practice if you have any hope of winning this test series. </p>
<p>The Perth Test is a case in point - Mitchell Johnson, written off by the pundits and look at the score board he is taking valuable wickets but not before he has prepared himmself wih a lot of practice and game time to get his confidence back, to be selected and then to reward his captain and preform. </p>
<p>Abbott you need to get the score board ticking over and wasting taxpayers money on a judicial commission is not the way to do it.</p>
<p>A strong policy on Workplace Reform, NOW that&#8217;s a different story. </p>
<p>Pity you made a blue by NOT voting for Peter Reith as Chairman of Selectors,  he would have been an useful ally.  </p>
<p>The  News / Bolt/ Smith need to be seen to be relevant while they are making you irrelevant to the electorate.   </p>
<p>This is an election for once for an opposition to win rather than for the government to lose. </p>
<p>Romney thought otherwise and look at what happened to him egged on by US num-nuts HE LOST THE UNLOOSEABLE election in a landslide.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230395</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230395</guid>
		<description>dasha xie - “Be honest, do you truly bel ieve Gillard’s letter was simpl y clarifying ” trade union” title?” Yes - for a very simple reason, the commissioner denied their application because they bel ieved they were a trade union - hence all that was required to get them incorporated was to clarify they weren’t a trade union.

And why is it pecul iar that a partner in a law firm did not consult others when doing something as simple as incorporating an association?
And how are the simple tasks you outline not “limited advice”

This will backfire on the libs in the polls because the only people who beli eve Gillard has questions to answer (despite answering every question journalists could think of twice and giving Abbott 15 minutes to make an allegation) are ultra right wing, everyone see’s it for what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dasha xie - “Be honest, do you truly bel ieve Gillard’s letter was simpl y clarifying ” trade union” title?” Yes - for a very simple reason, the commissioner denied their application because they bel ieved they were a trade union - hence all that was required to get them incorporated was to clarify they weren’t a trade union.</p>
<p>And why is it pecul iar that a partner in a law firm did not consult others when doing something as simple as incorporating an association?<br />
And how are the simple tasks you outline not “limited advice”</p>
<p>This will backfire on the libs in the polls because the only people who beli eve Gillard has questions to answer (despite answering every question journalists could think of twice and giving Abbott 15 minutes to make an allegation) are ultra right wing, everyone see’s it for what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230393</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230393</guid>
		<description>dasha xie - &quot;Be honest, do you truly believe Gillard’s letter was simply clarifying ” trade union” title?&quot; Yes - for a very simple reason, the commissioner denied their application because they believed they were a trade union - hence all that was required to get them incorporated was to clarify they weren&#039;t a trade union.

And why is it peculiar that a partner in a law firm did not consult others when doing something as simple as incorporating an association?
And how are the simple tasks you outline not &quot;limited advice&quot;

This will backfire on the libs in the polls because the only people who beli eve Gillard has questions to answer (despite answering every question journalists could think of twice and giving Abbott 15 minutes to make an allegation) are ultra right wing, everyone see&#039;s it for what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dasha xie - &#8220;Be honest, do you truly believe Gillard’s letter was simply clarifying ” trade union” title?&#8221; Yes - for a very simple reason, the commissioner denied their application because they believed they were a trade union - hence all that was required to get them incorporated was to clarify they weren&#8217;t a trade union.</p>
<p>And why is it peculiar that a partner in a law firm did not consult others when doing something as simple as incorporating an association?<br />
And how are the simple tasks you outline not &#8220;limited advice&#8221;</p>
<p>This will backfire on the libs in the polls because the only people who beli eve Gillard has questions to answer (despite answering every question journalists could think of twice and giving Abbott 15 minutes to make an allegation) are ultra right wing, everyone see&#8217;s it for what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: dasha xie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230385</link>
		<dc:creator>dasha xie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230385</guid>
		<description>Jimmy No. 92
Be honest, do you truly believe Gillard&#039;s letter was simplely clarifying &quot; trade union&quot; title?
Clearly shown in the transcript, she told senior partners during the interview that she didn&#039;t consult incorporation lawyer for advice ( ?hiding something) and she drafted the letter/ application using the model from Mannuals of Socialist Forum ( cut and paste in her own words ) and researching WA register guidelines ---this is not &quot; only provided very limited advice &quot; !!!

There are too many inconvenient questions and probable truths for Gillard and her supporters. Statements like &quot; I can&#039;t recall&quot; , &quot; I have answered ...&quot;, &quot; so what? &quot; enforce my impression that she is either incompetent/ doggy , willfully blind or acted unlawfully.

A judicial inquiry is the way to go because Gillard and union officials seem untouchable. It may clear her if she didn&#039;t do anything wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy No. 92<br />
Be honest, do you truly believe Gillard&#8217;s letter was simplely clarifying &#8221; trade union&#8221; title?<br />
Clearly shown in the transcript, she told senior partners during the interview that she didn&#8217;t consult incorporation lawyer for advice ( ?hiding something) and she drafted the letter/ application using the model from Mannuals of Socialist Forum ( cut and paste in her own words ) and researching WA register guidelines&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;-this is not &#8221; only provided very limited advice &#8221; !!!</p>
<p>There are too many inconvenient questions and probable truths for Gillard and her supporters. Statements like &#8221; I can&#8217;t recall&#8221; , &#8221; I have answered &#8230;&#8221;, &#8221; so what? &#8221; enforce my impression that she is either incompetent/ doggy , willfully blind or acted unlawfully.</p>
<p>A judicial inquiry is the way to go because Gillard and union officials seem untouchable. It may clear her if she didn&#8217;t do anything wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Dion Giles</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230343</link>
		<dc:creator>Dion Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230343</guid>
		<description>In the woodwork class, class captain Bob gets on with building things.  Jealously Jack king-hits him.  Bob bloods Jack’s nose and tries to get back to working.  Jack starts pummelling him.  Bob blacks his eye and turns back to work.  The class is in uproar.  “Fight! Fight!” gleefully bray a bunch of cretins.  “They’re both causing the ruckus”, cluck staff do-gooders, “why can’t they both behave?”.  Who is right, the cretins or the do-gooders?  Answer: Neither, because neither cared who did what, when.

As for the WA kerfuffle, a fraudulent scam was built on the back of  a legal creation.  Gillard did the routine lawyer stuff on the legal creation then got on with her day job.  Later the scam developed.  Files and funds went missing, authorities were conned.  Gillard dumped W.  There’s not a shred of evidence that Gillard was in on the scam, stole the files and funds or conned the authorities.  Lawyers assist creation of companies.  That’s what they do.  Some companies later do bad things.  That’s what THEY do.  Abbott and the narcissistic - er, you know - are debasing the parliament and the nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the woodwork class, class captain Bob gets on with building things.  Jealously Jack king-hits him.  Bob bloods Jack’s nose and tries to get back to working.  Jack starts pummelling him.  Bob blacks his eye and turns back to work.  The class is in uproar.  “Fight! Fight!” gleefully bray a bunch of cretins.  “They’re both causing the ruckus”, cluck staff do-gooders, “why can’t they both behave?”.  Who is right, the cretins or the do-gooders?  Answer: Neither, because neither cared who did what, when.</p>
<p>As for the WA kerfuffle, a fraudulent scam was built on the back of  a legal creation.  Gillard did the routine lawyer stuff on the legal creation then got on with her day job.  Later the scam developed.  Files and funds went missing, authorities were conned.  Gillard dumped W.  There’s not a shred of evidence that Gillard was in on the scam, stole the files and funds or conned the authorities.  Lawyers assist creation of companies.  That’s what they do.  Some companies later do bad things.  That’s what THEY do.  Abbott and the narcissistic - er, you know - are debasing the parliament and the nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230326</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230326</guid>
		<description>Geewizz - &quot;Actually no. They rejected it because they said it related to a Trade Union.&quot; Please provide some evidence for this because if this is true and Gillard told them it didn&#039;t relate to a trade union then she has committed a crime. Mr Abbott could really have used the evidence you obviously have yesterday when he was challenged to put up or shut up. 
In fact the Fairfax editors could of used your evidence yesterday when they were forced to retract the exact allegation you are making because it was false.

She did not say it had no links to the union, just that it wasn&#039;t a union - do try to keep up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geewizz - &#8220;Actually no. They rejected it because they said it related to a Trade Union.&#8221; Please provide some evidence for this because if this is true and Gillard told them it didn&#8217;t relate to a trade union then she has committed a crime. Mr Abbott could really have used the evidence you obviously have yesterday when he was challenged to put up or shut up.<br />
In fact the Fairfax editors could of used your evidence yesterday when they were forced to retract the exact allegation you are making because it was false.</p>
<p>She did not say it had no links to the union, just that it wasn&#8217;t a union - do try to keep up.</p>
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		<title>By: mikeb</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/29/awu-scandal-this-ends-today-one-way-or-another/comment-page-2/#comment-230324</link>
		<dc:creator>mikeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=334755#comment-230324</guid>
		<description>@geewizz. You are either deliberately distorting the evidence (as are the opposition) or not very good at reading. The letter was confirming that the incorporation was not a trade union and therefore eligable for incorportion. Nothing to do with being related to a trade union or being managed by trade unionists. If JG was trying to set up a trade union then in would be ineligable. That was the point of the query by WA comm and the reply from JG. Is it really that hard to follow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@geewizz. You are either deliberately distorting the evidence (as are the opposition) or not very good at reading. The letter was confirming that the incorporation was not a trade union and therefore eligable for incorportion. Nothing to do with being related to a trade union or being managed by trade unionists. If JG was trying to set up a trade union then in would be ineligable. That was the point of the query by WA comm and the reply from JG. Is it really that hard to follow?</p>
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