As I’ve asserted before - there are many men, thousands of them at least, who through some time in their lives don’t have a regular partner. These men don’t go and r**e women and/or kids? They don’t organize to be in a position to do so as a part of their daily ‘job’. It’s an awful assertion to make. It denigrates the decent, kind and, compassionate men who abhor violence of any kind, and also find even the idea of sexual contact with children as repugnant as I do! As do the people who’ve posted here - of both sexes!

I don’t know what makes paedophiles? I’d be interested, not because it would make me sympathetic, not a bit, but I just wonder why some men are like this? Do the Psychiatrists even know?

Also, there are plenty of men(sadly) who are in a relationship (usually heterosexual) who have a ‘regular sex life’ but who abuse their own kids or step children or ??down the street? There are even men who deliberately commence a relationship with a sole parent, in order to have access to her kids! They’re frequently liked by all, and often applauded for how they ‘love the kids as their own’? Sadly, it’s not until these kids grow up that they tell somebody? Sometimes they never do! Sometimes the predator has done such a good job at grooming, that even the children’s mother doesn’t believe them - although this is not the usual response - thankfully! But these men are clever in a sick and conniving way!

I question the Nuns and/or other teachers, who in the early years let kids leave the class room with said priest? Why didn’t they ask why? Why didn’t they ask the kids when they returned what they did? Were they so ‘innocent’ as to not even have a niggling thought? One priest had an unused ‘room’ where he took little girls and r***d them? Did those nuns suspect but were indoctrinated too, re the priest being god’s disciple on earth and so could NOT be questioned? I find this disturbing to say the least. And this priest in question had been abusing kids since the 1940’s - and moved around! That’s all of my life - or until the 90’s when a very brave young man (in his 30’s I think) came forward! What courage!

The “joys of the flesh” were NEVER meant to be ‘shared’ with children!

So, while the cc attitude to sex is ‘pre-historic’ and usually misogynist also, I don’t believe celibacy alone ‘creates’ paedophiles and their disgusting, cruel and disgraceful behaviour! That puts a blot on the lovely, decent men who’d never engage in this grotty lifestyle! Their instinct is to protect and defend, never abuse children!

Joys of the Flesh©

What makes a man want to deny his heart,
the chance to join with another?
Why would a good man not play his part,
in a love with a girl like his mother?

Why would a man want to deny his blood,
the chance to flow through the ages?
At some point in life it will rush like a flood
and stain all the good bible’s pages.

Too many people are trapped as a child,
they are lied to, abused, they are blamed.
Then life is a struggle, forever wild,
unstable, forever ashamed.

What makes the good people turn a blind eye,
while abusers are granted respect?
What makes a good man stand and deny?
What would their Jesus expect?

I know about Jesus, he’s never afraid
to stand up and look in the mirror.
He may well forgive the mistakes you have made.
But when a mother is crying can you hear her.

Why tell a priest that he must not express,
what he needs, that he’s somehow above it?
His heart must deny the joys of the flesh.
Although it’s a lie, he must love it.

His heart must deny the joys of the flesh.
Although it’s a lie, he must live it.

Difference of opinion, arguments etc are NO excuse for men to resort to violence. Boys need to be taught about the ‘adult’ way to solve conflict. I realized after I left, that my husband used violence, aggression, psychological negatives instead of talking through any issue. He was the boss, it was his way or the ????? Controlling behaviour is the key. I actively discouraged my boys from using their fists. I refused to go along with the ‘boys will be boys’ and this is how it is! No way! I’d tell them that any fool can use his fists, it takes brains to resolve conflict! I’d separate them when they’d resort to punch ups. There’s a recent program that educates young people about respectful relationships, it’s called ‘Love bites’ (catchy eh?) and it works! We just need more monies????

There is NEVER any excuse for violence, and certainly NOT by a man who purports to love his partner/wife!

Re men and violating AVO’s? The problem is, that the police are reticent to act when they men are considered ‘no threat to the community’? Sadly, they’re so obsessed on revenge that they kill? Mostly, it’s the fault of the police, who’ve refused to take action. This theme seems to run in every story sadly! DV is evident across all cultures, education, age brackets etc, and so obviously there are police who are abusers in their private life. I didn’t come across ONE police officer who was concerned about my welfare, even about my kids, when I had two babies close together. In fact, a Chamber Magistrate’s advice was ‘go home, be a good wife and cook his favourite meal’? It took me another 18 years to leave? I believed that I had no options! That was in the 60’s? It didn’t even start to change until women like me and other feminists demanded change - but I still didn’t tell anyone about my own life of abuse! We need to change communities attitudes, and that will give more women confidence to speak out. That is the main reason why I’m going to write about my experiences. I want to help other women, but more importantly, I want other people in the community to demand that it stop!

Attorney’s General in all states and territories(Federal Labor)worked together a couple of years ago with a unified approach as their aim. In NSW, there is a separate group related to the judiciary and police, who are going to go over all deaths of women, including ones that appeared to be suicide, to see if there was histories of abuse, and what to look for in future in order to prevent it. Sadly, there’s still a long way to go!

WRD is a great way of educating the community, and it’s great to see different parts of the media getting on board - such as women’s magazines, TV shows etc. Every year, more white ribbons are sold/given away than the preceding one which is great. Men can become supporters or ambassadors and challenge their mates etc when their behaviour is ‘off’ - to say the least! Trouble is, all too frequently it’s still referred to as ‘just a domestic’? It is not just and has nothing to do with justice!

Queensland has also got rid of Mammography x-rays re breast cancer? So, what did we expect? Howard’s 50’s view of women didn’t encourage him to have programs that educated young people re abusive relationships? He used monies left over from one campaign to fund the ‘be alert not alarmed’ frig magnets? Says it all really! His wife didn’t say ‘boo’ - almost for the whole 12 years he was PM? One really good campaign that was going to run during the school holidays was ‘pulled’ at the last minute! No reason, just pulled! Probably a bit too confronting for Howard’s conservative views?

I don’t have aboriginal heritage but these issues are close to my heart too! I hate injustice with a passion! And they get truckloads of it, sadly! shame on us! After over 200 years, racism is alive and well - from the top down, sadly!

I’m interested in hearing about the structure etc of the Royal Commission? Will it involve lots of individual ‘stories’ or concentrate on the ‘systems’ etc? Getting the balance right will be difficult I believe! I just hope that the victims feel as though positive actions will happen as a result. It will be very traumatic for many people, but hopefully they’ll feel it was worth it!

Of course we must support them! Otherwise, more people will take their own lives! There’s been too many people who found they just could NOT continue living with their pain. Just awful!

…it’s an interesting newspaper. Noted differences of Opinion on Letter ‘Dogmatic Intervention’.

Take Care
Madonna

I’m in the process of writing about living with domestic violence as I believe that the only way for this scourge to stop is by women like me speaking out. There are still too many people who are judgmental, bigoted and ignorant, and who still blame the one abused not the abuser! No other crimes except this one and sex crimes are the victims made to feel shame and guilt? Due to the patriarchal societies women live in. Many women can’t do it or don’t feel confident or have a good command of english to write their stories. I think I could do it! In fact I’ve started. It’s not easy and I stop and start, but I’ll get there. I have acute to chronic painful arms etc all the time, and so this has an effect, but after nearly 30 yrs I’ve learnt to get used to it!

I minded my gorgeous little great grand daughter the other night, about 20 hours all together, and I can hardly use my left arm. It feels like it’s been punched, hard and often, but she’s such a darling that it’s worth it. She’s growing so fast it’s scary. I want to enjoy her as a baby for as long as possible. she’s 5 1/2 months now, and is almost laughing out loud! The sweetest sound in the world I think - kid’s laughter!

Nice to meet you Madonna, you stay well also. I’m glad you’re out of the suffocating relationship and wiser because of it! One day our society will find violence in relationships as repugnant as driving while drunk! I hope I’m around to see it. Sunday is White Ribbon Day which is growing every year. I usually participate but this year the activities are on Friday and I’m having lunch with a friend who’s celebrating completing her PhD on aboriginal issues in Australia. I’m looking forward to meeting her colleagues etc. She is an aboriginal woman and she’s worked for at least 5 years on it, while raising kids. Gutsy to say the least! Her little one is only 4?

If you’re interested in WRD you can check out their website. It’s good stuff!

xo

I don’t agree with Bolt on almost everything he says or does. The issue is, that the catholic church has its own laws that spell out very clearly, that the most important thing is to uphold the reputation of said church, regardless who has to suffer. I don’t believe that this belief should colour any activities at all - whether via a Royal Commission or in any court or police service.

The whole point is, that priests live in a protective vacuum still, and they keep on offending, safe in the knowledge that everything will be done to protect them. Whether they’re moved around the state, country or the world, they should HAVE to be subjected to the same laws as you and I.

Geoffrey Robertson’s book, ‘The case of the Pope’ is an educational and indepth book that clearly shows, that up until today’s date, the cc has not changed its attitude to victims and perpetrators. In fact, they’ve gone out of their way to blame other aspects of life. Homosexuality was responsible, then our ‘relaxed and evil’ society. They’ve even blamed the victims. At best, they either are incapable of knowing of the awful damage, or they don’t give a hoot! Victims are expendable in their eyes? I find it difficult to comprehend the hideous and secretive acts of pure evil!

As to aboriginal people? The Intervention was allegedly needed due to horrific and widespread child abuse. Up until this date, there’s barely a handful of people even arrested let alone been charged and convicted. When the stats of child sexual abuse are raised, I believe that the vast numbers of pedophiles are non-indigenous males, and yet, there’s no military or police vehicles lumbering along our streets; no shortage of alcohol supplies in Bondi or Wollongong etc? What has happened, is that aboriginal men all feel as though they’re abusers who’ve destroyed children. I’d say that domestic violence is rampant in these communities, but those who’ve shown that they’re in charge and making headway are thwarted by having their funds cut! It just makes me wild!

Also, there’s no action taken against non-indigenous males abusing aboriginal teenage girls? Truck drivers who allegedly exchange cigarettes etc for sex? Why hasn’t this been raised. I believe that all kids should be protected, but telling lies about alleged perpetrators only breeds resentment and anger?

I’m heartened today to hear, that Lawyers/politicians etc are advocating for the Law to be removed that prevents the cc having its assets ‘used’ to pay compensation. Apparently our Laws don’t exist in the US, Britain or Europe. If this is so, bring it on I say!

I find all sorts of abuse difficult to watch. I couldn’t watch the screen during the horrific abuse of Australian sheep and cattle for instance, but I don’t apologise for crying while watching 4 Corners or Australian Story about DV or sexual assault documentaries. I’ve liked Kerry O’Brien for decades, and I believe he’s a compassionate man who genuinely feels for people. It comes across, while at the same time it doesn’t inhibit his searching questions, which ultimately add weight to the plight of the survivors. I often cry at these times. Human beings are just damned awful at times! (I often say, no wonder I love whales? A whale wouldn’t do……).

I only sought counselling a few years ago, and I’m glad I did. I’ve been told that I suffer from a form of PTSD called Complex Trauma Disorder! There’s a lot of women out there struggling with the same life experiences as we do. I no longer feel shame, nor do I feel that it was my fault. It’s not ‘my dirty laundry’ it’s his! I’ve put the blame where it belongs - at his feet. He threatened me again only a few years ago when I challenged him for not telling our kids the truth. He’s never admitted his behaviour, and is either a sociopath or narcissistic or both??? Has no empathy or ability to feel sorry or remorseful? It’s quite amazing really! We’d have been married for 50 years in a couple of weeks, and separated/divorced for about 30? Interesting isn’t it? How people continue living a lie, and are thought of as OK by outsiders? He was a house a******e and street doer of ‘good’ things?

Thanks for the link! I’ll follow it up! Take care Madonna! Us survivors must stick together!

*I’m a fan of Kerry O’Brien,he cuts to the chase! although some programs I can’t watch because their visual impact causes distress (abuse cases of any sort).

FYI: Sian Kingi link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sian_Kingi

Andrew Bolt made an interesting point yesterday. If paedophiles confess to a priest for absolution, the likelihood of future admission of guilt by them or others would be diminished.

Some paedophiles are victims who repeat the cycle of abuse. Sexual abuse among children is rampant in Aboriginal communities, Toomelah is a recent example.

When victims come forward to testify, I hope they have appropriate support as they detail events. On one level, it may appear easier to keep painful memories buried (as Pell would like), but in the long term, it’s worth viewing them in order for victims to receive justice. To find closure to some extent when their experiences are validated and culprits are given appropriate sentences.

I took great delight in saving my sister from that excuse for a man. He was old enough to be her father, and she is 7 yrs older than I am. I was about 13 or so at the time. A very brave thing to do considering his level of violence. A very vile person! I often wonder what happened to him? I don’t think he’d have waited long before choosing another victim?

I don’t know about that young girl, Sian Kingi? The stats do prove that men are the overwhelming perpetrators though. I think we’re going to hear about some pretty horrific crimes in the new year, but I applaud their courage and stamina.

Pell made me so angry, with his awful statements. Just goes to prove how the cc is consumed with the destruction of their ‘brand’ than the disgraceful levels of abuse against innocent children. Did you hear his blase comment when told of another priest/brother who’d been arrested and charged that day? His, ‘my sympathies to the victims’ was disgusting. You’d think he was being sympathetic to someone who told him that they hadn’t won Oz Lotto? It immediately reminded me of those who’ve complained in the past of his offhand treatment - almost callous responses to horrific stories of pain and misery - even death via suicide.

Good advice to your daughter. I have grand daughters, and also a gorgeous little great grand daughter who’s not 6 months old yet, and I certainly will not be encouraging ‘do as adults tell you’ etc. It’s a fine line, but an important one in order to keep kids safe, and also to make them feel that their bodies etc are to be respected by everyone they come in contact with.

I recall the stories of twins, now women who were both abused in their own home, but who kept this secret from the other? They only ‘owned up’ when the priest who abused them, who they thought had been sacked, was in fact celebrating his decades of being a priest by saying mass in their neighbouring parish? They were outraged, and who could blame them. They were both interviewed, but one was not ready to reveal her identity? I felt so distressed for them both. Both had children of their own. Due to this insult and lie via their ‘local’ bishop, they said they were going to the police. This just broke their resolve to not go any further. I suppose the only positive? is that now they can comfort each other! It made me realise, that if twins felt compelled via fear or shame etc, to maintain their silence, how must people feel when they’re met by further abuse? Kids at school being flogged for ‘telling lies’? The base level of some people’s entrenched brain washing causes further distress to victims. Kerry O’Brien was so compassionate in his responses to their claims. There’s been a 4 Corners program this year on domestic violence, and his comments were spot on also. He’s a very kind and caring man I believe!

The cc hides behind the claim of being ‘concerned’ about the ‘soul’ of the perpetrator, and their resolve to support them while they ‘change their ways and repent’? The only problem is, that they don’t? How many stories of perpetrators going from parish to parish, state to state, and even to other countries - like working with the pope even? Bunch of hypocrites? They attempt to have the view that ‘it’s not that bad, not as though anyone died’ sort of response? I just shake my head in disbelief? I just don’t understand it at all! Don’t they ever read anything about how abuse affects kids through to adulthood, in fact all their lives?

I just hope we all support those people who’ll be giving evidence, and nobody uses a similar defence too often aimed at victims of rape and/or domestic violence? Why did you??? or Why didn’t they???That will just cause more pain.

Yes I believe those stats Liz…a sad reflection on society.
Take care
M

I don’t believe in the old belief of telling kids to always do what adults say, as was the norm when I was a child. It sets kids up to be abused by adults. I found it difficult when I raised my kids to find the right balance of respect for people (all people) mixed with the right to speak out if there was an injustice or abuse etc. But it must be done! I’m so pleased that I didn’t send my sons to a catholic school, and stood up to my mother about it. Of course I still didn’t know about sexual abuse only the physical abuse I received from a nun. Was not going to happen to my kids! In those days nuns weren’t even trained properly to teach either.

One real danger is men who precipitate relationships with sole parents in order to get close to their children. Scary to say the least.

No wonder Pell comes out with his ‘outrage’ when he smugly knows that all priests protect pedophiles - and not only due to the confessional. How many times do we hear of others being present, or kids telling other adults only to having their mouths washed out or flogged or ?????

@Madonna - I’ve heard men say that when they were altar boys they were r***d before or after mass? Can you imagine that? Just hideous!

The stats are very scary. 1 in 4 girls will be abused by the time they reach 16? The stats are pretty horrific for boys too!

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/9/A/6/%7B9A6BF515-76DF-4A03-940F-913610809387%7Dtandi429_002.pdf

Lets not let the desire to outsource blame to public instituions hide this reality.

The Church, particularly those criminals who abuse children know that if caught out, the perpetrator only has to own up in the confessional and that’s where it stays. The ‘need’ for his ‘immortal soul’ via forgiveness etc is paramount - and to hell with the victim/s! This makes it easier for those in authority to skim over every individual case.

I saw Frank Brennan on Lateline, and quite frankly felt like you. He also irritated me to death by smiling - obviously due to his media training I thought, but it wasn’t a topic to bring about smiles. I was disgusted! I kept telling him to wipe the smile off his face!!!

Inspector Fox’s opinons/experiences are not in the dim distant past - they’re happening now! That’s why he took the risk and spoke out a week or so ago. The head of police in Victoria made very blunt and accusatory statements to the Inquiry to the Victorian Parlt.

It amazes me that so-called men like Ted Baillieu can even contemplate allowing the cc to continue behind the confessional. I try and think of how terrifying for a little child to be r***d and it freezes me with the horror and pain of it. I just don’t understand. I really don’t!Less than a week ago a man was charged with r****g a 2 year old tiny girl, and videoed it! Mind numbing horror!

There was a man on channel 9 news who was just crying really hard, and I started too. He was a man in his 50’s at least, who was overwhelmed by the knowledge of being able to tell his story to people who’ll listen. How can others be so callous? Chris Foster said that Pell was cold and callous when shown a photo of her beautiful daughter who suicided. He showed that same callous attitude on the news. Let’s see how he goes after many people have told their horrific stories!