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Qld

Sep 13, 2012

Cognitive dissonance as Newman flails the coal industry

Concerns about the quality of Australian management, once claimed to be partisan sniping, are now shared by a conservative premier. That didn't fit the narrative at all.

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Well, ouch. That didn’t fit the narrative at all.

Campbell Newman not merely raised coal royalties in Queensland on Tuesday, but went on to attack coal mining companies yesterday, blaming poor management for their high cost:

“Now the mining industry’s had problems for some time. They’ve allowed their costs to get out of control. They’ve allowed basically poor industrial relations practices, poor management practices. The productivity has dropped. If there are going to be mines that are closing, well that’s not just about royalties, it’s a lot to do with the performance of the companies themselves.”

Let’s roll back a few weeks in the productivity (non)debate to recall what happened when Treasury released a paper suggesting that poor management practices might have contributed to the decline in multifactor productivity in the manufacturing sector: it was criticised (“dramatically miss[es] the target” opined Henry Ergas, who’d know a thing or two about poor management) and cited as evidence of Treasury’s Labor bias. We copped a blast from Judith Sloan for daring to mention the paper.

But it turns out concerns about the quality of Australian management aren’t confined either to an allegedly partisan Treasury or to manufacturing. Campbell Newman, whom the conservative commentariat is cheering on as he cuts a swathe through Queensland’s public services, shares them.

A clutch of commentators and industry players are thus left having to rework their narratives. Clive Palmer, who used to dwell at length on how the federal government’s mining tax was evidence of Labor’s “communism” or “socialism” (he apparently thinks they’re the same), had to resort to blaming Newman’s lack of business experience (along the way claiming that he himself was “the most successful Queenslander in the commercial world that’s ever lived”). And by the way, did you spot Palmer’s unsubtle plug for Lawrence “three-time loser” Springborg in the course of that interview?

The egregious Mitch Hooke, king of the rent-seekers, sounded forth from his Barton Minerals Council redoubt, but seemed unable to comprehend that it was a state conservative government that had lifted royalties and criticised mining management. “Increasing budget deficits, worsening industrial relations, the carbon tax, tax grabs in lieu of tax reform and a focus on redistribution rather than boosting the productive side of the economy is having an adverse material impact on costs, productivity and sovereign risk reputation,” he intoned to the AFR.

Ah, sovereign risk. So when Labor imposes a taxes, including one that Hooke himself helped to water down, it’s “sovereign risk” but not when a conservative government unilaterally lifts royalties.

The AFR today devoted extensive coverage to remarks by Jac Nasser, faithfully noting down seemingly every word that fell from the lips of the BHP chairman at “The Australian Financial Review and Deutsche Bank’s inaugural ‘Conversation Series'”, complete with photo of Nasser and editor Michael Stutchbury listening raptly to James Packer, whose views on how to effectively exploit gambling addicts were, alas, either unsought or unreported.

Nasser is most famous for being sacked from Ford. And as we’ve pointed out too many times to mention, BHP-Billiton track record of wasting money, including most recently with its massive write-down on US shale gas investment, is truly impressive. But he continues to exert a bizarre hold over the local business media, who regard every half-baked prognostication he utters (“it is a cyclical industry in a cyclical global economy”) as the wisdom of Solomon.

No wonder it’s apparently heretical to raise questions about the quality of local management when executives are treated as semi-divine by the local media no matter what their record (a point, incidentally, the excellent Ian Verrender touched on in his final column for Fairfax).

Nasser also repeated his claim that mining companies would go elsewhere unless Australian fell into line with industry demands. It was only in March that Australia was ranked the best destination in the world for mining investment for the third year running by US mining analyst Behre Dolbear. We’ll see how Australia fares in the same survey next year. But the only thing that will have changed in 12 months is a conservative government slapping a royalties increase on coal miners.

Odd how governments, charged with the real-world task of raising revenue and balancing budgets, suddenly take a different perspective on the self-interested claims of industry than they did in opposition, no matter what their political stripe. Unfortunately, it tends to cause severe cognitive dissonance for media cheerleaders used to blaming Labor for everything.

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162 comments

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162 thoughts on “Cognitive dissonance as Newman flails the coal industry

  1. izatso?

    Aye, some loathsome treachery from Workshy and BlowHard ……. They condone and facilitate these enforcements under a superficial camouflage, and hide behind accusations of conspiracy ….. How conveniently deflective ….. sublime blinkering from these saboteurs.

  2. Owen Gary

    Izatso,

    I have 2 rather large hardbacks on the inception of those treaties & yes the usual suspects orchestrated & implemented it.

    Every last part of this WTO market system is a conspiracy as is most of what goes on in politics, but I hardly need to tell you that. There is also a good little read in a hardback called (Treason at Maastricht) it may still be available?
    They are trying to manipulate the whole system into a Monsanto only food source with their latest target India.

    Get (Genetic roulette) which is the latest update of the real effects of frankenfoods, I can only assume once the planet is eating this produce entirely they will make the food even more toxic. Jimmy & Hand aka (hand of jimmy) obviously have some possible vested interests in the current agreements.

  3. izatso?

    GM trade deal enforcement throughout EU Community …….. this also slips past Jimmy’s ass prone positioning …… how accomodating is that ?

  4. Owen Gary

    Jimmy

    Check the latest conspiracy theory info on another of your beloved yankie corpse. (study finds tumors in rats fed Monsanto GM corn). just google it, was released yesterday.

    The best bit is the trial was over 2 years they developed tumors after 4 months, but monsanto only test their specimens for 3 months, this was left out of the story. If you like the video format instead watch (geneticroulette.co)

    Keep your head in the sand buddy that way they wont see you.

  5. Jimmy

    Izatso – Why don’t you answer the questions?

    And have you seen the TPP? And Wasn’t it supposed to be signed by now according to you?

    And if Australia are refusing to sign some sections how are we being steam rolled exactly?

  6. izatso?

    when the TPP Conspiracy is effected it will be no theory. why do you downplay its real threats, its really indefensable bullying requirements. smaller nations are being steamrollered by american corporate theives, yet, you shill, you bat for them, you bat for the other side, you sad something …..WHY DO YOU FOREVER DOWNPLAY THE REAL HORRORS OF THESE PROPOSALS ? BECAUSE YOU ARE A SHILL FOR AMERICA.

  7. Jimmy

    Why can’t you conspiracy theorists answer basic questions?

  8. izatso?

    at examiner.com article dollar no longer primary ……. for the mod.

  9. Owen Gary

    David,

    As I said the cartel with these & other people that instigated this is documented fact what you do with those facts is up to you.

    Jimmy

    The so called “free market” is set to crash in a very big way but they wouldnt do that would they??

  10. David Hand

    Owen!!
    You’ve said it!!
    It’s the Illuminati the Rockafellers, the Rothschilds and the J ews controlling the world from the shadows!

    Why didn’t you just say so at the beginning!!

  11. David Hand

    Owen!!
    You’ve said it!!
    It’s the Illuminati the Rockafellers, the Rothschilds and the Jews controlling the world from the shadows!

    Why didn’t you just say so at the beginning!!

  12. Jimmy

    Owen Gary – Let’s set aside the conspiracy theories for just one second and answer these questions for me.

    1) What instigated China’s emergence as a economic super power?
    2) What impact did insular & protectionist trade policies have during the great depression?
    3) Has Australia benefited from lowering tariffs during the 1980’s?
    4) How has the advent of the WTO effected Australia’s constitutional powers to date?

  13. Owen Gary

    David,

    Why dont you check out who instigated this organization through the Maastricht & other treaties. You will find the usual suspects Rockefeleer, Carnegie & Co but I guess you knew that, if you didnt I will pass on a few hardback copies to you.

  14. David Hand

    Owen,
    The act of trading with a foreign country requires by definition a surrender of sovereignty because the other side has a say as well. Putting in place a trading system by definition surrenders sovereignty but it makes it much easier to trade internationally.

    OK, you don’t like it. We grasp that. You think it’s a plot by evil American corporations to take over the world.

    You and Izzie are immovable in your fundamentalist positions. We grasp that as well.

    Don’t worry though. The last 10 minutes sees the hero use testosterone to save us all, rescue the girl and shoot Doctor Evil. Twice. In self defence.

  15. izatso?

    Jimmy Workshy …. no grasp ……. all wrist action …… the action of the Sock-Puppet for Amerikan Interests ……. a grubby bean counting Mole who pops up to superficialy defend, but ultimately to desparage Australian Interests, and to nanometrically distort and blur discussion towards Large Corporations applying extra judicialy enforced usurption of Power. …… J’ACCUSE ! ! ……..WORKSHY SUPPORTS THE USURPTION OF POWER BY FOREIGN INTERESTS ………

  16. Owen Gary

    Jimmy you just dont grasp it do you!

    The WTO was designed to wrestle away constitutional powers from every sovereign nation by economic means, in other words gazump it.
    Does that get through to you???

    Trade and other issues voted on in the European Parliament by representatives of the member countries are without the publics knowledge or consent in most cases. The reps appointed are pulled along by the privateers.

    BTW did you see (surviving progress) on Sunday night, please get with it, or even just watch the above mentioned doco so you can grasp how debt pushers & so called free trade work, but please take of that American bumber sticker off your tin-foil hat 1st.

  17. Owen Gary

    “The Most Important Trade Agreement That We Know Nothing About
    The Trans-Pacific Partnership could completely change intellectual property law. But the details are being kept secret”.
    By David S. Levine | Posted Monday, July 30, 2012

    Thats a good one, its sort of like they are applying the intellectual property laws to the actual agreement, therefore we cant see it, unless of course we pay their designated licence fee to access once it becomes legislation!!

    Oh boy you bet we’ll pay right through our codex alimentarius for it.

  18. izatso?

    Hey, Work Shy ! You’re simply a Slut for Amerika. And also Way Off Topic. Catch.

  19. izatso?

    sure, see you soon David…… no sense of humour that bean counter. Born to Rule. Whats with all the Feathers ?

  20. David Hand

    Izzie,
    I’m out of this discussion now.
    Don’t forget to keep wearing your tin foil hat. And make sure you have a tin foil lining in your crash helmet at your next anti trade demo.

  21. Jimmy

    “what about yer feathery mess then Mr Minor Fish ?” What are you talking about?

    And if I am a minor fish are we to expect you are a major player, a mover and shaker in the world?

    Again you are very quick to insult, abuse and accuse but very reluctant to answer the most simple of questions, you are clearly a fraud, someone who strikes out against the “system” with no knowledge or understanding as to why.

  22. izatso?

    what about yer feathery mess then Mr Minor Fish ? You’ve been Sqwarking, Clucking and Screeching Fer Days….. Clean Your Crap Up. DO YOUR OWN DIRTY WORK, YOU WORK SHY SHYSTER. lah de dah…..

  23. Jimmy

    Izatso – “You are so obviously OF the side that would Subsume Australias Business interests to Foreign Agendas.” Again I ask you do you believe that Free Trade (or at least lower trade barriers) are bad for Australia? If so provide evidence to support your argument.

    Also do you think things such as lowering tariffs and floating the dollar in the 80’s were good or bad for Australia? Again provide evidence to support your argument.

    You can accuse all you like but the accusations are patently false.

    Oh and your assumption that ” you are the Assistant Under-Manager (Accts.) of Not Fake Patriotic Investments Pty Ltd, a very Minor Fish in a Very Large Ponzi Pond” is also falsew, as I have said numerous times on this site I am an accountant in a small private practice servicing small Australian businesses.

    Now once again I have answered your questions how about you answer mine (including are you currently attending university).

  24. izatso?

    AND CLEAN UP YOUR FEATHERY MESS !

  25. izatso?

    Normal Corporate Regulatory Activity is just so much hogwash, yet you fawn over each other ,holding hands. Utter Crud. You have been told expressly that you do not want the answers to the questions that need to be asked. You cannot handle those Issues. You duck, dive, dodge, evade, and distract. You want nothing of this agenda to be seen until too late …… J’ACCUSE ! ! You are so obviously OF the side that would Subsume Australias Business interests to Foreign Agendas. You are plainly NOT for the side for promoting Australian Advancement. You order people to do Your Work. You stand Accused……. And my assumption is that you are the Assistant Under-Manager (Accts.) of Not Fake Patriotic Investments Pty Ltd, a very Minor Fish in a Very Large Ponzi Pond……. J’ACCUSE ! !……… enuff

  26. Jimmy

    David Hand – Great points and a well articulated argument.

    Izatso – Where is your rebuttal or answer to any of my questions? If your case is so compelling why can’t you argue it?

  27. izatso?

    David has not looked at these inequitous proposals. here ……” Corporate activity in the international trade space must be regulated to protect consumers and I think this is developing quite normally.” ………. yet he happily pontificates ………… as for Izzie personally, myob. ha. your assumptions are naturaly way off beam…….

  28. David Hand

    I first studied economics in the 60’s in year 11. About half way through my year 1 introductory text book was a chapter on international trade and the law of comparative advantage. The text book on this has been written so long ago the benefit of international trade is no longer an issue with economists.

    Politicians, the “Buy(insert your own country’s name here)” brigade and union members maybe.

    It is widely acknowledged that the depression in the 30’s was made far worse by a collapse in international trade. Australiaa and New Zealand’s prosperity took a major hit when they lost their export market to Britaing when it went behinf the customs union barrier of the EEC in 1974. British consumers started paying a lot more for basic food then.

    The reduction in tariffs and floating of exchange rates in the 80’s ushered in an unprecidented growth in prosperity across the western world that is now being repeated in Asia.

    Corporate activity in the international trade space must be regulated to protect consumers and I think this is developing quite normally. It doesn’t stop students donning crash helmets and assaulting venues of trade summits however. Hey Izzie, what were they like?

  29. izatso?

    Ho and Hum. obviously one your eyes glazed over. Numpty. izatso?
    Posted Monday, 17 September 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink
    So, no digging for jim. Just a bit of re-writing. One of my despairing comments had it that this is not, never can be about your shining credibility jimmy. It is about secrecy. It is about abrogation of responsibility. It IS, as you denied, jimmy, the usurption of power by large Corporations by the use of something called ”Extra-Judicial Enforcement” It is about all of these subjects and more. They are planning for the distant future, more so than the discredited MAI of 98. Digging ? Jimmy will Bury it.
    Bury away, you tool. Lah de Bloody dah

  30. Jimmy

    Izatso – 1) On the evidence presented Australia is standing up for it’s interests, ie not signing up for at least 1 part of the agreement

    2) Do you think free trade is good or bad for the Australian economy? Please provide evidence to support your answer.

  31. izatso?

    Your responsibility is to Australian interests. Make it so, then Puppets. No disingenuous laid-back distractionary fluff, smooching with one another in the corner. Pathetic.

  32. Jimmy

    David Hand – You too have discovered the point I have made repeatedly. Izatso simply knows the Us and corporations are bad and likes to use phrases like ” extra-judicial power” to impress the like minded uni students he hangs around with.

    Press him for some sort of support for his position and you get abuse.

  33. David Hand

    Izzie,
    You concede my point but argue that I am disingenuous. I don’t think you have considered my point at all.

    You’re revealed as a conspiracy theorist, beyond rational discussion who has decided that international trade is bad.

    “Boo! the Yanks are taking over the world through their mega corporations!!”

  34. izatso?

    disassociation in modern political discourse, in action. another feelgood sock-puppet with a Yank up it. yet it will decry its independence. I despair. been a long night. yes you are outside the law there, but that is the ol’disingenuous David, simply.

    i

  35. David Hand

    Izatso,
    You’ve been watching too many “evil corporation” and apocalyptic sci fi movies.

    Even I have extra-judicial power. I have a bank account in New Zealand.

  36. izatso?

    ffs someone else have a turn please

  37. izatso?

    they. wish. to. be. outside. Extra. the . Law. nano metre by ……..

  38. izatso?

    Walking away ? that is where the ”extra – judicial enforcement gets invoked ! !

  39. izatso?

    …… and it is not about me either crissakes, I am not your toy……. you will argue the nanometre out of this. just to destabilise. you get no more abuse. you have had it. Jimmy wiil dig for himself everybody !

  40. Jimmy

    Michael – I am more obtuse simply because I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theories relating to Assange and this TPP? DO you subscribe to the theory that everyone who doesn’t agree with you must be an idiot?

    “The Slate article and comments come from the point of view of citizens, whereas the TPP and the US negotiators come from the point of view of “if it’s good for GM it’s good for the USA”.” That may well be true but is it the negotiators that sign these agreements? In one article posted by Izatso it pointed out that the supposed leaked points were in contradiction to Obama’s stated policy – if that is the case will he sign up?

    And Izatso argued that this deal needed to get done before the US election – why would they want that if Obama is against the contentious points?

    And if this TPP does come to pass and does turn out to be negative for the people what is to stop a future govt listening to it’s people’s concerns and walking away from the agreement?

  41. izatso?

    you’re right michael, and I will only say this now. The TPP in all its hidden depths must be shown for what they are. An astonishing grab for all our rational expectations in the future, RIGHT NOW …… It is bigger than all of us, and has repercussions down the ages. This is Massive. Get On It, everybody……..

  42. Jimmy

    Izatso – “It IS, as you denied, jimmy, the usurption of power by large Corporations by the use of something called ”Extra-Judicial Enforcement” It is about all of these subjects and more. They are planning for the distant future, more so than the discredited MAI of 98” This may be true but I have asked you to demonstrate it, and you have failed to do so. Why should I be convinced of your argument when all you do is state what your point of view is then refuse to support it.

    Any way I have had enough of your rubbish, you claim you posts were meant for others when basically there have only been you and me on here since you started this topic and you seem more than capable of continuing your rant by yourself (see the 14 consecutive posts) so until you want to grow up, stop the personal abuse, answer the questions put to you and discuss the issue rationally I will leave you to it.

  43. michael r james

    Jimmy, maybe so but it is very noticeable that you have become much more obtuse. Maybe it is that you miss SB and it was a form of therapy for you (but torture for the rest of us)?

    The Slate article and comments come from the point of view of citizens, whereas the TPP and the US negotiators come from the point of view of “if it’s good for GM it’s good for the USA”. Indeed that is the entire basis of their deliberately dysfunctional patent system.
    ………………………………
    Iz, please desist.

  44. izatso?

    Nanometre by Nanometre by Jim

  45. izatso?

    So, no digging for jim. Just a bit of re-writing. One of my despairing comments had it that this is not, never can be about your shining credibility jimmy. It is about secrecy. It is about abrogation of responsibility. It IS, as you denied, jimmy, the usurption of power by large Corporations by the use of something called ”Extra-Judicial Enforcement” It is about all of these subjects and more. They are planning for the distant future, more so than the discredited MAI of 98. Digging ? Jimmy will Bury it.

  46. Jimmy

    Michael R James – I desisted long ago. And I strenuously object to being likened even in the slightest to SB, in this instance I said numerous times I was not pro or anti the TPP and requested Izatso back up his claims that the TPP is a cover for corporations taking over the world, all I got from Izatso was abuse and references to articles that were neither unbiased nor supportive of his point.

    Your above article also disproves one of his arguments. He has claimed that the TPP is the US “steamrolling” everyone else, but your article and others he himself posted point out that many believe it isn’t in the US’ interests to sign the TPP.

    I would also point to the fact Australia has refused to sign up to a section as proof the US aren’t steam rolling anyone.

    I agree (as I did with Geomac) that the secrecy surrounding this is a bad thing but that doesn’t mean it is a massive conspiracy and I reserve my judgement on the TPP until all the details are known.

  47. michael r james

    Izatso & Jimmy, please desist. (And what has happened to J? It seems his body has been invaded by the ghost of SB, who has disappeared recently; not complaining unless she has reincarnated posing as someone else…)

    Anyway, below is the link and a small extract from a good article on TPP from Slate back a few months. There are also lots of good comments (check out Chad in particular; no I’m not Chad but am there in another guise!) which is not something we could claim for this thread in Crikey thanks to you two. One of the points of the story is the very inaccessibility of the current status of the TPP agreement.

    [(slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/07/trans_pacific_partnership_agreement_tpp_could_radically_alter_intellectual_property_law.single.html)
    The Most Important Trade Agreement That We Know Nothing About
    The Trans-Pacific Partnership could completely change intellectual property law. But the details are being kept secret.
    By David S. Levine | Posted Monday, July 30, 2012
    .
    Imagine being invited to formally offer input on a huge piece of legislation, a proposed international agreement that could cover everything from intellectual property rights on the Internet to access to medicine to investment rights in the agreement’s signatory countries. For 10 minutes, you’d be able to say whatever you’d like about the proposed law—good, bad, or indifferent—to everyone involved in the negotiations. But there’s a caveat: All of your questions, all of your input, on what may be the most controversial part of the package, would have to be based on a version of the proposed international agreement that was 16 months old. And in that 16-month period, there were eight rounds of negotiations that could have changed any and all of the text to which you had access, but no one could tell you if that version was still accurate.
    .
    Would you still take the deal? This is not a hypothetical question; rather, this is the take-it-or-leave-it offer made to the public in May by the United States Trade Representative regarding the intellectual property rights chapter of the massively important but little-known Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP). Unfortunately, this modest but sad excuse for public participation was the best offer to ask questions and offer input to TPP negotiators since the public phase of the negotiations began more than two years ago. So civil society groups, academics, experts (“nerds”), and regular Joe concerned citizens said yes.
    .
    The above Kafkaesque scenario reveals a truly odd and disturbing 21st-century situation. Asking informed questions is probably man’s oldest form of letting someone know his views. But in 2012, with all of the technology that allows for unprecedented (if not totally unfettered) flows of information, the vestiges of 20th-century secrecy continue to permeate international lawmaking, as reflected in the negotiations of TPP.]

  48. izatso?

    when the hue and cry has settled, we get what we wanted in the first place, sort of deal ? ?

  49. izatso?

    Sheeoot modded on the watered down proposition feigned outrage same Pup scenario ……

  50. izatso?

    It truly is a ‘Conspiracy to let Corporations usurp Power’, and this description doesn’t get to the heart of it.

  51. izatso?

    @GEOMAC62 the Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI) cruelled by Internet response in 19998 was similar, but this goes much further

  52. izatso?

    TPP Watch

  53. izatso?

    and countercurrent org will explain what a ‘mammalian cell bioreactor’ is exactly ……..

  54. izatso?

    this needs to be destroyed utterly. there can be no option but to deny this root and branch.

  55. izatso?

    U.S. negotiators are alone in seeking to expand this extra-judicial enforcement system to also allow the
    use of foreign tribunals to enforce contracts foreign investors may have with a government for
    government procurement or to operate utilities contracts and even for concessions related to natural
    resources on federal lands. (Text that is not yet agreed in the leaked text appears in square brackets and
    Public Citizen has seen a version of the text that lists which countries support various proposals.) While 600 official U.S. corporate advisors have access to TPP texts and have a special role in advising
    U.S. negotiators, for the public, press and policymakers, this leak provides the first access to one of the
    proposed agreement’s most controversial chapters. In May, Sen. Ron Wyden, the Chair of the Senate
    Finance Subcommittee on Trade – the U.S. congressional committee with jurisdiction over TPP –
    submitted legislation requiring that access be provided to members of Congress and their staff after he
    and his staff were denied access to even the U.S. TPP text proposals submitted during negotiations. The TPP may well be the last trade agreement that the U.S. negotiates. This is because the TPP, if
    completed, would have a new feature: it would be open for any other country to later join. TPP offered
    an opportunity to develop a new trade agreement model that could deliver the benefits of expanded
    trade without undermining signatory nations’ domestic public interest policies or establishing special
    privileges for foreign corporations. President Obama campaigned on fixing these investment rules to
    protect the public interest.1 Unfortunately, Public Citizen’s analysis of this text shows that the U.S.
    positions do not reflect the changes that candidate Obama pledged to remedy this regime’s threats.

  56. izatso?

    modded. for Abrogation of, and surrender of Decency and Respect for Ourselves

  57. izatso?

    I really hope Australia has shut the door in the face of this insidious rolling, unbelievable surrender of all natural expectations of Decency and Respect just flies in the face of every Human Right. It would be abrogation of vast proportions …….

  58. izatso?

    The leak also reveals that all countries involved in TPP talks – except Australia – have agreed to
    submit to the jurisdiction of such foreign tribunals, which would be empowered to order payment of
    unlimited government Treasury funds to foreign investors over TPP claims. As revealed in Section B
    of the leaked text, these tribunals would not meet standards of transparency, consistency or due process
    common to TPP countries’ domestic legal systems or provide fair, independent or balanced venues for
    resolving disputes between sovereign nations and private investors. For instance, in a manner that
    would be unethical for judges, the tribunals would be staffed by private sector lawyers that rotate
    between acting as “judges” and as advocates for the investors suing the governments.

  59. izatso?

    Although TPP has been branded as a “trade” agreement, the leaked text shows that TPP would limit
    how signatory countries may regulate foreign firms operating within their boundaries, with
    requirements to provide them greater rights than domestic firms. The leaked text reveals a two-track
    legal system, with foreign firms empowered to skirt domestic courts and laws to directly sue TPP
    governments in foreign tribunals. There they can demand compensation for domestic financial, health,
    environmental, land use laws and other laws they claim undermine their new TPP privileges.

  60. izatso?

    @GEOMAC62 did you get the investment text ?

  61. izatso?

    yup, hadn’t but none the less…… this thing smells totally foul G.

  62. geomac62

    izatso?
    Don,t put the Ws in your link . Easy enough for those wishing to look it up to add Ws after pasting the link .

  63. izatso?

    crikey you wanna be there at retailers gst import hopes 3rd post down chpowell

  64. izatso?

    ok. modded and modded again, cannot post links but its showing over at

  65. izatso?

    TPPis being rammed through on the sly so that U S environmental and labor law can have monetary penalties applied to them and thus be overruled in secret foreig courts. TPP being pushed by current us admin as vigourously as NDAA, which legalises disappearing anyone for secret national security purposes.

  66. izatso?

    TPP is being rammed through on the sly so that US environmental and labor law can have monetary penalties applied to them and thus be overruled in secret foreign courts. TPP being pushed by the current US administration as vigorously as NDAA, which legalizes disappearing anyone for secret national security purposes … Google NDAA

  67. geomac62

    For what its worth wiki:
    Controversy over Intellectual Property (IP) provisions

    There has been criticism[30][31][32] of some provisions relating to the enforcement of patents and copyrights alleged to be present in leaked copies of the US proposal for the agreement:

    The Office of the United States Trade Representative proposal for the TPP intellectual property chapter would:
    Include a number of features that would lock-in as a global norm many controversial features of U.S. law, such as endless copyright terms.
    Create new global norms that are contrary to U.S. legal traditions, such as those proposed to damages for infringement, the enforcement of patents against surgeons and other medical professional, rules concerning patents on biologic medicines etc.
    Undermine many proposed reforms of the patent and copyright system, such as, for example, proposed legislation to increase access to orphaned copyrighted works by limiting damages for infringement, or statutory exclusions of “non-industrial” patents such as those issued for business methods.
    Eliminate any possibility of parallel trade in copyrighted books, journals, sheet music, sound recordings, computer programs, and audio and visual works.
    Require criminal enforcement for technological measures beyond WIPO Internet Treaties, even when there is not copyright infringement, impose a legal regime of ISP liability beyond the DMCA standards.
    Require legal incentives for service providers to cooperate with copyright owners in deterring the unauthorized storage and transmission of copyrighted materials.
    Require identifying internet users for any ISP, going beyond U.S. case law, includes the text of the controversial US/KOREA side letter on shutting down web sites.
    Require adopting compensation for infringement without actual damages.
    Require criminal punishment of commercial and non-commercial copyright and trademark infringement.

  68. izatso?

    Sorry, that should read ‘ an Unconscionably Dirty Trade Deal is Being Hidden From US Once Again’ ….. etc

  69. izatso?

    god yes avoiding you totally, none of my responses were for you except the sad embittered stuff which was, is, wholeheartedly sincere.this is not a competition. a dirty trade deal is being hidden from us once more, and you think only of little jimmy. You are a Sad Something.The issue is not, never will be you.

  70. Jimmy

    zatso – You rally do struggle don’t you – “so you don’t deny the sockpuppet wheeze then” Yes I did, I pointed out that the allegation doesn’t make sense there by denying it’s accuracy.
    ” you dont get answers from me, because you are simply Humbug and of Very Little Consequence” I am of very little consequence yet tou have spent over 4 hours repl ying to my posts and avoiding answering my questions? No I don’t get answers from you because you are a poser who knows what they don’t like but doesn’t know why.

    “Nice threads, then along comes jimmy and distraction is sure to follow” No you turned this thread into something it wasn’t, I have tried to discuss the topic you chose and get you to answer questions regarding that topic and you dodged, ducked and abused.

    ” where are the questions you dont want asked you treacherous Sock Puppet ?” How about this you answer the questions I have asked then I will ask the ones I don’t want answers to.

  71. izatso?

    Nice threads, then along comes jimmy and distraction is sure to follow. where are the questions you dont want asked you treacherous Sock Puppet ?

  72. izatso?

    so you don’t deny the sockpuppet wheeze then ? Bahahahaha you dont get answers from me, because you are simply Humbug and of Very Little Consequence. hnnnnn ? Sock Puppet.

  73. Jimmy

    “jmmy the questions you dont have are the questions needing answers !” You are a 2nd year Uni student aren’t you, that might impress the girls of the left at parties but you & I both know it is just a wa.kers answer to avoid exposing yourself as a fraud.

    They might not be the answers I need but I’ll take them anyway.

  74. izatso?

    jmmy the questions you dont have are the questions needing answers !

  75. Jimmy

    Izatso – Until you are willing to answer my questions stop throwing sh.t

    And as your own article points out this deal is bad for the US as well (apparently) so why is asking you to prove the agreement is a terrible thing somehow supporting the US?

  76. izatso?

    sheesh you go and talk to your reflection, you low piece of treacherous something. this deal is astonishing in its reach for other peoples very existence?

  77. izatso?

    fluff stuff and bumff from the man with a yank up his sockpuppet neck !

  78. Jimmy

    Geomac – I fully agree that we should be able to get more details on the agreement but that doesn’t mean that the agreement is a conspiracy to let corporations usurp power.
    And as I have said a couple of times I am not for or against this particular agreement I jsut want izatso to answer a few questions and provide some unbiased evidence of his claims.

    I like you don’t know if we are better off with the USA deal you point to but our market is not big enough to sustain any industry without export, lower barriers to export is a good thing in the long run.

  79. izatso?

    well the fix is on the way, talks (!) close in 2 days ?

  80. geomac62

    Well Jimmy I think the point that should be considered is why information regarding these trade deals are not available . I remember way back there was concern about something called MUAs or similar sounding agreements and governments backed off . It seems the same thing happening but under a different guise , business upsurping sovereign rights . I don,t know nor does anyone else apparently because we are not told . The USA trade deal is about 6 billion negative to us but that may be outdated by now . Are we better off with it or not ? I have no idea but would like an idea of what our trade balance was before the deal .

  81. izatso?

    standing up ! this shit needs blowing out of the water you cracker!

  82. Jimmy

    Two things from that article;
    1)”Although the TPP has been branded a “trade” agreement, the leaked text of the pact’s Investment Chapter shows that the TPP would:
    Limit how U.S. federal and state officials could regulate foreign firms operating within U.S. boundaries, with requirements to provide them greater rights than domestic firms;
    Extend the incentives for U.S. firms to offshore investment and jobs to lower-wage countries;
    Establish a two-track legal system that gives foreign firms new rights to skirt U.S. courts and laws, directly sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use and other laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges; and
    Allow foreign firms to demand compensation for the costs of compl ying with U.S. financial or environmental regulations that appl y equall y to domestic and foreign firms.”
    Doesn’t sound too good for the US does it? Wasn’t it supposed to be the US over riding the smaller countries?

    2) “Australia has refused to submit to the jurisdiction of the “investor-state” private corporate enforcement foreign tribunal system” So Australia is standing up for it’s interests.

  83. Jimmy

    Two things from that article;
    1)”Although the TPP has been branded a “trade” agreement, the leaked text of the pact’s Investment Chapter shows that the TPP would:
    Limit how U.S. federal and state officials could regulate foreign firms operating within U.S. boundaries, with requirements to provide them greater rights than domestic firms;
    Extend the incentives for U.S. firms to offshore investment and jobs to lower-wage countries;
    Establish a two-track legal system that gives foreign firms new rights to skirt U.S. courts and laws, directly sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use and other laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges; and
    Allow foreign firms to demand compensation for the costs of complying with U.S. financial or environmental regulations that apply equally to domestic and foreign firms.”
    Doesn’t sound too good for the US does it? Wasn’t it supposed to be the US over riding the smaller countries?

    2) “Australia has refused to submit to the jurisdiction of the “investor-state” private corporate enforcement foreign tribunal system” So Australia is standing up for it’s interests.

  84. izatso?

    sheesh the flamin yank shits

  85. izatso?

    at ‘Public Citizen’ then ‘Controversial Trade Pact Text leaked’ etc

  86. Jimmy

    “the facilitation of corporate avoidance of regulations again …….. this trade deal round of negs finalises in two days, nothing in MSN anyone?” Have you just done a complete loop and got back to where you were 3 hours ago with “Crikey! How does a TPP, a Trans Pacific Partnership secret Bullshit Deal Fly under the freaking radar ? HEY ?!!”

    And at 1.39pm it was “well get reading then, it is to be signed in 4 days, and I’ve just tripped over the Big Yank Steamroller Operation, FFS” 2 1/2 hours later and it’s ” this trade deal round of negs finalises in two days” What happened?

    And still no answers?

  87. izatso?

    the facilitation of corporate avoidance of regulations again …….. this trade deal round of negs finalises in two days, nothing in MSN anyone?

  88. Jimmy

    Ok I googled NDDA which do you want me to look at?

    NDDA North Dakota Department of Agriculture
    NDDA North Dakota Dental Association
    * NDDA North Dallas Dermatology Associates (Texas)
    * NDDA Nundah District Development Association (Nundah, Brisbane, Australia)
    * NDDA Nashville District Dietetic Association, Inc. (Nashville, TN)
    * NDDA Nutrient Dietary Data Ana lysis

    Now why won’t you answer me questions?

  89. izatso?

    Ha thanks SBH….. an’ for a real spesh deal on trade check democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc

  90. Jimmy

    Ok I googled NDDA which do you want me to look at?

    *** NDDA North Dakota Department of Agriculture
    ** NDDA North Dakota Dental Association
    * NDDA North Dallas Dermatology Associates (Texas)
    * NDDA Nundah District Development Association (Nundah, Brisbane, Australia)
    * NDDA Nashville District Dietetic Association, Inc. (Nashville, TN)
    * NDDA Nutrient Dietary Data Analysis

    Now why won’t you answer me questions?

  91. SBH

    Girls. GIRLS! That’s enough.

  92. izatso?

    umm, right google NDDA , also part of this sleaze trade deal bs….. jimmy give up, you only exist for my contempt

  93. Jimmy

    “‘Just Foreign Policy’ have a reward that is quite rich, for a soggy copy of this one sided trade deal, this same deal that is giving away intellectual rights and copyrights to the usual suspects over there” Who have a reward? And what is that reward? And you seriously believe the people paid to represent Australia’s interests are actively working against them? And you know hwat is in the deal despite the very article you referenced saying “t this point it’s not really possible to discuss the merits of the TPP since the governments are keeping the proposed text a secret from the public””?

    And why don’t you answer any questions?

  94. izatso?

    tzzzzz your shameless. ‘Just Foreign Policy’ have a reward that is quite rich, for a soggy copy of this one sided trade deal, this same deal that is giving away intellectual rights and copyrights to the usual suspects over there …….

  95. Jimmy

    Izatso – “Jimmy just shut your unbised tiny gob, ffs ……….. Next !”

    So I ask you to argue your case and answer some questions and so far you have told me to rack off, piss off and shut my gob and avoided making a point. No wonder I don’t believe your conspiracy theories.

  96. izatso?

    unbiased hate hate ……

  97. izatso?

    Jimmy just shut your unbised tiny gob, ffs ……….. Next !

  98. Jimmy

    “sorry for the distraction folks, it what he’s good at. check ‘real world economics review blog’ trans pacific partnership”

    Firslty this whole topic is a distraction from what the article is actually discussing and the distraction could all go away if you just answer my questions and argue your case.

    As I said I don’t have a strong view on this agreement, I am in favour of Free Trade but if this agreement isn’t about free trade but instead about giving corporations the power to over throw govts as you suggest simply make your case and persuade me.

  99. Jimmy

    Iaztso – Here is a line out of the article you referenced – “At this point it’s not really possible to discuss the merits of the TPP since the governments are keeping the proposed text a secret from the public” So basically I don’t know what they are discussing but let’s just fill the void with conspricay theories?

    And the AFTIN, that isn’t just a fancy name for a left leaning activist group? Let’s get some unbiased perspective shall we?

    And I have demonstrated that free trade is advantageous to australia, the whole dpeartment for foreing Affiars and Trade “backing up the Australian POV” in the actual negotiaions, why don’t you explain why you think they will agree to something that harms this country and what “exactly” that is?

    And why don’t you answer the question I posed, you seem to be just a left version of Suzanne Blake.

  100. izatso?

    sorry for the distraction folks, it what he’s good at. check ‘real world economics review blog’ trans pacific partnership …….

  101. izatso?

    what ? whilst you’re shooting me down in flames, when you should be backing up the Australian pov ? Stawman for you ? why ?

  102. izatso?

    and submission to DFAT Site on TTP ….. on behalf of the Australian Fair Trade and Investment Network

  103. Jimmy

    “Ha, too late fudger ! Radio Times for you ! do not make me fill the gaps between the Question Marks, ‘tis very sad” The radio times it seems would have a better argued case than you do on this issue. and too late – for what, and why don’t you fill in the gaps – lack of ability?

    I can’t see why it is so hard for you to even attempt an argument, maybe you follow the rule that it is better to stay silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt.

  104. Jimmy

    “check ‘trans pacific partnership is washington speak for corruption and theft’ on google ….. wordpress ?” Not answering questions then?

    And are you unable to make your own case, you have to get me to google an article?

  105. izatso?

    Ha, too late fudger ! Radio Times for you ! do not make me fill the gaps between the Question Marks, ’tis very sad ……

  106. Jimmy

    Izatso – “because I rather think you would facilitate ‘new rights and privileges for major corporations, while weakening the power of nation states to oppose such’, which is what a certain large Pacific (!) Nation would always expect ……… ? hnnnnn ?” Again based on what, because I don’t think Assange is a saint or that he is the victim of a major international conspiracy and I don’t think he will be denied justice if he is ever charged.

    Find one thing that I have posted that supports the view that I ” would facilitate ‘new rights and privileges for major corporations, while weakening the power of nation states to oppose such’.
    I wholeheartedly support plain packaging of cigarettes which is the very antithesis of what you allege.

    And I am far from pro US, I just don’t think they are the root of all evil.

    Not being on the extreme left does not leave you on the right.

  107. izatso?

    check ‘trans pacific partnership is washington speak for corruption and theft’ on google ….. wordpress ?

  108. Jimmy

    Izatso – You are claiming I have a bad record on obfuscating? So far today you are the one who made an assertion way back at 1.04pm, since then I have asked you numerous times to make you case, you have posted 7 times and have got further away from making a point every time. In fact other than some vague corporate conspiracy I have no idea what you are even arguing here.

    In order to help this why don’t you answer the following questions;
    1) What is it that you object to about Free trade and why?
    2) What are the clauses in this specific agreement that concern you and why?
    3) Why do you think the US getting this agreement signed before their elections is proof of a corporate conspiracy?
    4) Are you in fact currently attending university?
    5) Why do you think removing barriers to our export markets is a bad thing for this country?

    And as for what “exactly” I would give up I can not answer that as I have no idea what is on the table but in any negotiation you never get everything you want and you always have to give up something.
    I wold say though that the Hawke govt lowering tariffs way back in the 80’s has been a key part of why we are in our 22nd year of uninterrupted growth.

  109. izatso?

    because I rather think you would facilitate ‘new rights and privileges for major corporations, while weakening the power of nation states to oppose such’, which is what a certain large Pacific (!) Nation would always expect ……… ? hnnnnn ?

  110. izatso?

    good jim, between ‘I in fact think’, and ‘a weakening manufacturing sector; just what would you have us ‘give up’ exactly ?…………. and I know ‘exactly’ is hard for you to get to as a bean counter of experience, let alone your record on here for obfuscation………. why am I bothering ………….

  111. Jimmy

    Izatso – “this ole Steamroller is being fast-tracked ahead of the US election and you are real casual about that little fact.” What are you alleging here – that the US corporations want to get this deal through while there is still a democratic president to push their agenda?

    “You would have a (….. I will fill this in later Jim ! …..)before you would defend Australias interest.” And you make this statement based on what? I in fact think Australia’s interests should always be of paramount importance when making these deals, things like the PBS should be sacrosanct, but that doesn’t mean Australia doesn’t have to give up something to get something after all greater access to foreign markets is definitely in the interest of a small country with a large amount of natural resources, agriculture & education to export and a weakening manufacturing sector.

    And I am not usre you know what a well argued position is, simply making (or reiterating) wild statements with out any evidence to support them is the exact opposite of what I am asking you to do.

    If that is you best effort in convincing me you failed badly, maybe you are only a first year Uni student.

  112. izatso?

    this ole Steamroller is being fast-tracked ahead of the US election and you are real casual about that little fact. You would have a (….. I will fill this in later Jim ! …..)before you would defend Australias interest. That is My Statement, so, come on, give up your strongly held opinions for posterity …….

  113. Jimmy

    Izatso – Why is it so hard to back up your statement? Unless they have changed the meaning of cognitive dissonance since last I looked it wasn’t asking for position to be logically argued.

    To me you sound like you are a second year university student, you just know the evil corporations are corrupting the world and this FTA is just a rouse to allow them to gain more power and weaken our democracy (it probably has some evil clause relating to the persecution of Assange as well) but because you only hang out with like minded people a few well worn phrases and cliches is enough to impress the ladies with your moral righteousness and the few times anyone has bothered to challenge your prententious posturing you simply denounce the as right wing stooges or simply unable to comprehend your supposed highly intellectual musings.

    However in the real world if you make statements you need to support them if you wish to convince anyone, right now I have no strongly held opinions regarding this FTA, why don’t you try to convince me of your case?

  114. izatso?

    jimmy you are cognitive dissonance personified, rack off

  115. Jimmy

    Sorry 4 post later and no more information!

  116. Jimmy

    “and if you come over all ‘something something relax, it is simply’ blah blah, just remove your blind-siding *ss to the Radio Times, ta ……” Did you have a stroke? How is my *ss blind-siding?

    All I ahve done is ask you to back you claims up, 3 posts later and no more information!

  117. izatso?

    Radio Times for you then ? piss off, ok ?

  118. Jimmy

    “well get reading then” Frankly I have better things to do with my time. But again if you want people to bel ieve it isn’t a free trade agreement but in fact a right wing conspiracy to have corporations usurp our democratic freedoms you need to post something more than just 2 sentences from wikipedia.

  119. izatso?

    and if you come over all ‘something something relax, it is simply’ blah blah, just remove your blind-siding *ss to the Radio Times, ta ……..

  120. izatso?

    well get reading then, it is to be signed in 4 days, and I’ve just tripped over the Big Yank Steamroller Operation, FFS

  121. Jimmy

    Nothing to do with smugness Izatso, in fact I have not read much on the agreement at all but Wikipedia is known for not being a reliable source of information and the wording of the couple of sentences you posted indicates the author is not exactly a neutral observer.

    My point is that if you are that concerned with the lack of coverage the topic is getting you need to provide a more detailed an a l ysis than 2 sentences from wikipedia.

  122. Jimmy

    Nothing to do with smugness Izatso, in fact I have not read much on the agreement at all but Wikipedia is known for not being a reliable source of information and the wording of the couple of sentences you posted indicates the author is not exactly a neutral observer.

    My point is that if you are that concerned with the lack of coverage the topic is getting you need to provide a more detailed analysis than 2 sentences from wikipedia.

  123. izatso?

    dont be so smug Jim, tell us some distracting disinformation, huh?

  124. Jimmy

    Izatso? – Wikipedia? Really? Surely you can get a better source than that for such a complex agreement

  125. izatso?

    wikipedia …. ‘Of the 26 chapters under negotiation, only a few have to do directly with trade. The other chapters enshrine new rights and privileges for major corporations while weakening the power of nation states to oppose them.’

  126. izatso?

    Crikey! How does a TPP, a Trans Pacific Partnership secret Bullshit Deal Fly under the freaking radar ? HEY ?!!

  127. fredex

    OK.
    Sheridan’s self confessed partisan defence of Abbott alleged violence has been refuted by a colleague, Abbottt has gone quiet after being caught in 3 or so ‘fibs’ [I’m being tactful] in the last week, his poll approval [sic] is abyssal despite a whole crew of mates like Sheridan, the COALition edifice is visibly crumbling with millionaire backers [plural] attacking and being attacked, Hockey and Barnaby have opened their mouths again and spewed typical infantile stuff, there are COALition types who have opened expressed opinions directly confronting the COALition’s line in parliament about the big boat…..

    When is Crikey going to stir the pot about the leadership wrangle that is going on inside the Liberal Party?
    What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

  128. Harry Rogers

    “Rake”

    The show is like a fresh shower and restores your faith in the “silent majority” who write this jewel of snapshot of todays society.

    Long may the writers reign.

  129. Jimmy

    SBH – “Anyone else catch Gary McDonald in Rake last night? High-larious!” Certainly did, he was great, although it was also quite depressing due to it’s accuracy.

  130. SBH

    – have
    +in

  131. SBH

    Harris Evans, that’s a very good definition although arguably it doesn’t include the negative effects of ‘bad’ social capital. My point was more, as Hamis Hill elaborated, that it is used so loosely and with such ignorance that it can be used to mean anything. Like ‘quantum leap’. Anyone else catch Gary McDonald in Rake last night? High-larious!

    Journalists have a role to educate their readers especially when dealing with complex detail in an arcane field like finance. It’s a bulwark against people using terms to confound, obfuscate and stultify so they can hide stuff they’d rather you didn’t know about.

    So instead of talking about the real problems faced by governments have raising sufficient revenue to meet convergent voter demands, we have a catch all ‘sovereign risk’. If we talked about the need for and efficiency of centralised taxation and spending systems people like Kohler wouldn’t be able to wail about the ‘tax burden’ and ‘red tape’ and other Edward Lear style government impositions

  132. Liamj

    There will be little cognitive dissonance Bernard, because most media will quickly forget the unscripted info.

    We could test this by counting how many times a Tory-bot says “Gillard govt .. wrecking the mining industry/economy” before next federal election, and how many times Premier Newmans actions are raised in challenge. 100:1, easy. Where would the LNP be without the servility of the commercial media?

  133. Hamis Hill

    So Social Capital is an “investment”, something like Adam Smith’s “The Expenses of the Sovereign for the Education of Youth” with the “Risk” that, if the investment is inadequate, better educated foreign investors may buy up the whole nation.
    So do foreigners invest in social capital or does that “equity” risk belong to the sovereign?
    The nation or “locals” build up their social capital and, through mismanagement, risk foreigners, who didn’t pay for it, getting it for nothing.
    Might explain the conservatives’ scorched earth policies on the social capital investment of public services.
    Why risk that sort of investment when fire saleing your national sovereignity for private profit is your bottom line?
    And all that social capital investment just makes the place attractive to boat people.
    Turn the place into a howling wilderness of dusty quarries just like Nauru. and they’ll find some where else to go.
    If, Maggie Thatcher style, there is no society then you don’t have social capital or sovereignity to risk.
    Cracking the privateers’ policy code for fun and profit, everyone for themselves!
    (As the nation sinks).It’s complicated!

  134. gautillard dellron

    perhaps we’ll get the “it’s not a tax it’s a levy” line?
    that’s always welcome.

  135. gautillard dellron

    it’s not socialism when liberal governments do it, remember that.

  136. Scott

    Yeah, rather than sovereign risk, which has more to do with treasury debt, they should be referring to political or regulatory risk, a form of event risk that can affect private debt and equity. But sovereign risk sounds better I guess.

  137. Harris Evan

    Can someone explain why people are allowed to dig Australia up and send bits of it overseas?Does it remain Australian territory? I think it should.

  138. Harris Evan

    Relax , Hamis Hill. Social capital used to mean all the social goods that sustain our communities and the economy at large, as distinct from money, share scrip and other valued matters deriving from the presence o0f the State. It still means that, I like to think. Today, however, Facebook found a way to value social capital and turn it into a share price. Long may it suffer, and soon may it evaporate.

  139. izatso?

    See, of course ‘Cognitive Dissonance’

  140. izatso?

    wups, I agree David. Its a meme that gets hijacked by someone who wishes to destabilise his opponents debate.

  141. David Hand

    Sovereign risk is a technical term that is about governments defaulting of deciding not to meet their debt obligations.

    It is often misunderstood (and I’ve done this myself) to mean the risk that governments will destroy business confidence by changing the rules at a whim, reducing businesses’ willingness to invest in the future because a country or state has become riskier to invest in.

    Though not technically correct, the meaning of the article is clearly about the risk to future investments in Australia – a factor that the owners of a certain large fishing vessel are reflecting on at the moment.

    The risk of being beaten up by a sovereign Australian State or Federal government seems pretty high at the moment.

  142. CHRISTOPHER DUNNE

    Another piece of journalism from Team Crikey that puts the remnants of the MSM to shame…if they can ever actually feel any.

  143. TheFamousEccles

    Can someone please explain what “sovereign risk” is, as it pertains to a private sector entity? Seriously, I am at a loss.

  144. Harry Rogers

    “The AFR today devoted extensive coverage to remarks by Jac Nasser, faithfully noting down seemingly every word that fell from the lips of the BHP chairman at “The Australian Financial Review and Deutsche Bank’s inaugural ‘Conversation Series’”, complete with photo of Nasser and editor Michael Stutchbury listening raptly to James Packer, whose views on how to effectively exploit gambling addicts were, alas, either unsought or unreported”

    I dont think Newman is far wrong about Australian management when this sort of crap is trumpeted from what was once a solid information newspaper.

    I dont know anybody that listens to Nasser or Packer unless they are sycohantic employees or of course like Richardson on the payroll. Hmmm….30 pieces of silever alive and well.

  145. Hamis Hill

    SBH That “social capital” term annoys the hell out of me.
    It seems to go back to Adam Smith’s observation that wealth is the product of Capital and Labour.
    Capital is defined, not as money, but the materials from which “goods” are made by the application of labour.
    Those describing people as social capital, in turn, from Smith’s definitions, seem to be saying that people are materials owned by capitalists, ie slaves, but ironically are too ignorant to understand what they are actually saying.
    But it is oh so sophisticated to loftily refer to “social capital” and totally mislead anyone about the origin of the terminology by overturning its meaning altogether.
    Skilled labour and capital results in the production of increased wealth.
    Social capital and capital together produce what? Drivel.
    All logic and history on the subject is subsumed to the flaunting of mindless jargon from which we are supposed to understand that those using it exist at a higher level of understanding when, in fact, they are pretentious and destructive ignoramuses.
    Perhaps they are “Post-Modern”?
    Whatever the hell, that means.

  146. CML

    @ JIMMY – While I agree that Clive if frequently “over the top”, there just might be something in his comments that the back bench are restless. No doubt they are getting adverse feedback from their electorates, but I wonder whether there might be dissention between the “former” Nationals and Liberals who make up the LNP? I’m talking about the backbench, not the executive. And remember, all those said backbenchers vote in any leadership spill!! I think it will depend to a large extent on how the voters are disadvantaged by the public service cuts, especially in those “National” electorates outside Brisbane. Time will tell!

  147. Hugh (Charlie) McColl

    Clive Palmer has now pulled out of two election contests before he even entered them. 1. against Wayne Swan in Lilley and 2. against Bob Katter in Kennedy. He also said the other day that he hasn’t spent any money on the LNP this year. So what are we doing crediting him with some electoral credibility? Clive Palmer is entertainment value only.

  148. David Hand

    I think it’s a bit over the top for Newman to bag mining companies for bad management. The whole industry has been in such a state of expansion that everyone is working one or two levels above what they would have been exposed to in the recent past.

    So we have inexperienced miners, inexperienced front line supervision inexperienced superintendents and inexperienced mine managers. Because of this, the focus has rightly been in safety and not business performance. The latter has been covered by the high price of coal. As the price has plummeted this year, coal mining companies have suddenly found themselves exposed to a very unwelcome squeeze of high costs and operating losses.

    The fact that your average Bowen Basin bottom level miner can earn north of $140k per year might have contributed to high costs but in an industry that is experiencing sudden unwelcome change, rushing round to gain short term advantage by criticising mine managers is pretty shallow. The other problem with Newman’s announcement is that it’s a royalty on volume, not a tax on profit and will most likely drive a lot more mines into risk of closure than would otherwise have happened.

  149. Daveo11

    GEO:
    Sometime before Kevin Rudd announced his version of the Mining Super Profits Tax, the Australian Greens policy was (from memory) for up to 50% tax to be spent mainly on infrastructure, health and education.

  150. Jimmy

    CML – The whole Rudd thing is a load of rubbish, he said “under the leadership of the Prime Minister” which Prime Minister did Leigh Sales think he was referring to? Up until Gillard took the job every other PM has alway had the privilege of being referred to as Prime Minister, the fact the media have treated Gillard with less reverence shouldn’t lead Sales to be confused as to which PM Rudd was referring! He should of said her name earlier than he did but I got the impression he thought the question was stupid and therefore was being stubborn.

    On Clive thinking Newman will be gone before Christmas that is also rubbish, I think he has been caught on the wrong side of a power struggle up there and his man Springborg is on the outs so now Clive has gone off the reservation.

  151. SBH

    Did I hear someone say ‘Orwell’? No – oh well any way, Bernard Keane seeing as it’s apparently beyond the Ken of a whole raft of people including Alan Kohler and Mitch Hook, Can you please tell us all, wtf ‘sovereign risk’ means or like ‘social capital’ it now just means precisely what I want it to mean (apols Lewis Carroll)

  152. CML

    @ JIMMY – I also found myself agreeing with Clive Palmer, to my great surprise! He had many interesting things to say, not the least of which is that Newman will be gone before Christmas. Since Clive is supposed to be the biggest bankroller of the LNP in Qld, and that presumably gives him some clout, there could be interesting times ahead to our north?

    Funny that the Crikey editorial today was used to tip a bucket on Kevin Rudd (as usual), when Clive’s interview was much more pertinent to both the national and state scenes. Go figure!

  153. Jimmy

    Geomac – I didn’t see all the interview, I am one of those who don’t take him seriously so I went to bed, but from what I have seen it wouldn’t be hard to point to errors in Costello’s report, it appears to be a very shoddy piece of work that decided what the answer was then set out to prove it anyway it can.

    All three eastern state conservative govt’s have made some stupid decisions re budget cuts, Newman targeting Health, O’farrell slashing education (despite supporting GOnski) and O’Farrell & Baillieu whacking TAFE when everyone is crying out “skills shortage”. If this is a precursor to Abbott (which it almost certainly is) we should be very worried.

  154. geomac62

    Bob the builder
    I agree with you but not entirely as The Rudd mining tax came out of the blue . I guess you could say the same about QLD but everyone knew their budget would be a shocker , just didn,t realise it would so bad .
    I had never heard any discussion from Rudd or ministers informing the public prior to the announcement of the mining tax . Industry might have been aware but the public had nothing and thats the first thing a government should do , inform the public to get them onside .
    Jimmy
    Trouble with Clive is that he comes across as part parody and part businessman . How many take him seriously or actually separate which hat he is wearing when he speaks is the concern . Imagine QLD slashing health of all things ? One thing Clive did nail was regarding Costello and the vast difference between a large state like QLD and a smaller state like Victoria and the people required to provide public service .

  155. Jimmy

    MJPC – I surprisingly found myself agreeing with Clive Palmer last night, he was actually bagging Newman’s austerity measures as counter productive, slashing jobs will lead to lower payroll tax, lower GST take because of lower spending etc.

  156. MJPC

    Well said Jimmy;
    ALP had Mark Latham and now the LNP has Campbell Newman (as well as Tony Abbott).

    As for Newman’s backbone…it’s easy to slash and burn when you have no opposition and only one house of parliament which allows you to do as you wish. In another country this would be called a dictatorship.

    Let’s see what happens Queenaland as the mining lobby starts to contract with the mining slowdown and rational voters start to regret what they did to allow a loose canon unfettered power.

  157. izatso?

    Odd ….. Cognitive Dissonance/Media Bias/Management Fudgeing/Incompetence/Inaptitude …… Business As Usual, CYA/Best Practice etc, etc, ad inf….. Not So Odd then ……………

  158. Jimmy

    Bob – It’s pretty easy to have backbone when you have the media on your side and you know that the miners will get the increased royalties compensated under the MRRT so all he is doing is effectively charging the Fed’s more.

  159. Bob the builder

    If only Labor had Newman’s backbone, they would have vigorously defended their modest mining taxes in the face of outrageous rent-seeking, rather than timorously put their views in a debate framed by the mining companies.

  160. Jimmy

    More evidence Campbell Newman is the best thing to happen to the ALP in years.

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