ATO leading the world in discriminating against Mac users
As tax filing time comes around again, and the now-ritual complaints about the Australian Tax Office’s discrimination against Mac and Linux users are uttered, Crikey has learnt the Australian Tax Office is one of the few developed world tax offices that refuses to accept online tax form lodgement from non-Windows users.
The ATO paid a remarkable $32 million to Melbourne-based company DWS (owned by Danny “1 cent” Wallis) for its e-tax software, which will only operate on Windows systems and Windows emulators, although the ATO doesn’t guarantee success with the latter.
Complaints about the ATO’s refusal to acknowledge the existence of Mac and Linux have been rife for a decade or more. Initially, the ATO dismissed non-Windows users as too few to worry about. When quizzed at Senate Estimates by Labor’s Kate Lundy, a regular pursuer of the issue, in 2004, the ATO’s then Commissioner Michael Carmody told her:
“I know that we have regularly surveyed the demand for the Mac product. Given where we are now, to meet that accessibility would be costly. The feedback has been that it is very marginal demand. So while we are in the state we are in it does not seem to us to be a good use of taxpayers’ funds to bear that cost.”
Eventually the ATO abandoned its state of denial and accepted it would at some point have to provide online filing for non-Windows platforms. In 2007, it proudly announced in a media release:
“… we will redevelop e-tax to make it compatible with any computer system that has internet access. We will test this with a small group of users in 2008, aiming to make it available more broadly in future years — pending the success of the trials.”
Well, not so much — a year later, it was all too hard. The ATO was telling Mac users in 2008 that “the project identified a number of challenges and complexities. These challenges were so significant that the Tax Office is not in a position to offer a redeveloped e-tax product for testing in 2008.”
In March this year, nearly four years later, the ATO announced it was spending another $155,000 on trying to find a way to remove its inbuilt discrimination against Mac users. But that project only applies to the desktop OSX, not to proliferating platforms like iPads or iPhones, and not Linux.
Next year, perhaps?
Crikey did some checking on how you can file online overseas.
In Canada, you can use a range of third-party software like this one that complies with Canada Revenue Agency requirements to file, or use the CRA’s own NETFILE system. In the United States, you can use third party browser-based tools like this one to file with the IRS. In Singapore, you can use myTax Portal, although Mac users are urged to use a browser other than Safari (good advice generally, in any event). In the UK you can file for a huge range of taxes online. You can also do so in Malaysia via a browser — indeed the Malaysian Revenue Board is now offering filing from mobile devices. France also has a browser-based filing system. In Germany, you can’t use the official software to pay income tax if you’re a Linux or Mac user, but there is other software available to do so.
In short, pretty much every other country surveyed has conquered the apparently insurmountable problem of allowing non-Windows users to file their tax online. But here in Australia, if you use Linux or a Mac, you may as well be filing in 1989, yet again.
The ATO did not respond to Crikey’s request for comment.
*Disclosure: Bernard Keane is, yes, a Mac user
I am an accountant and still think subject is a bit “who cares”. What percentage of the population are “non windows users” and of that percentage how many want to use e-tax?
And those “non windows” e-tax users would surely have access to windows at their place of employment or a relative if they were that desperate.
Considering the mac is in 2011 the biggest selling computer brand in the world, its now actually bewildering. The mac is the dominant hardware manufacturer, although its far from being the dominant OS (Its closing in on 20% for OS/X and growing, but its still somewhere to go) its far from the extreme minority platform of 10 years ago.
Linux, eh… it’d be nice but I could understand some reservations in that regard due to the somewhat bewildering array of choices (KDE vs Gnome, QT vs GTK, Ubuntu vs Redhat, etc etc etc) to support.
Regardless, theres a much easier solution. Just do a bloody web app!
I care Jimmy, because i dont have access to a windows computer as almost everyone I know uses macs, and not being an accountant, and all that, I find filling in tax returns bewildering.
I have sent a number of letters to my federal members over the years on this issue and have not received any help whatsoever. In fact, the advice given to me was to use a “public library” computer to do my tax. If this is the official advice of the ATO then perhaps their management needs to be sacked. Public computers can contain any number of viruses that could compromise your online privacy. No one should be using public computer systems to do their tax returns because of the sensitive nature of the information you provide.
I’ve been using exclusively Linux computers since 1995 and I have no reason to change other than to do my tax return. Unfortunately I will again be lodging a paper return while grinding my teeth at the ATO exhortations to use their etax.
While they’re at it, it would be great if they could have someone interpret their instructions into plain English.
There are numerous multi platform software programs available in all spheres of applications . It would appear that the ATO bought a dog and cannot get satisfaction in upgrading the software . Am I to understand that Macoffice , a microsoft product , wont be acceptable for use with the ATO software which is MS based ? They bought a dog .
DMX Prime - Would you say you wree the majority or the minority?
And if you find filling in tax returns bewildering I don’t advise doing it yourself in whatever format, pay the $180 odd (which is tax deductible) and get a professional to do it.
Jane - Agree there, my sister does hers through e-tax and rings me to help her through it, they don’t make it easy.
Here in Japan you can lodge what is called e-Tax forms on line using either a Windows or Mac-based computer. The ATO should get up with the times
Unbelievable as it is, the Queensland Office of State Revenue is not compatible with Mac and payroll tax returns can’t be lodged. There’s no fix for it, so Mac users have to get their accountants to lodge their returns.
Etax is written in Delphi of all languages….which did not have support for the apple OS until the last version (which was released late last year).
Like all things IT, blame the developer.
Almost a case of 3rd line forcing. Except that it’s the Government wot’s doing the forcing.
$32 million could be considered remarkable until we consider what the IBM SAP consultants cost at Queensland Health. Does the AusTender site though suggest the costs blew-out 8-fold or was the scope widened?
A web-based version of e-tax would make sense.
Perhaps Mac users should refuse to pay their tax? How DARE the ATO decide which of the mainstream platforms they can support? Perhaps a better solution would be to create an API that developers can code to and let innovative developers solve the problem for them!
‘The feedback has been that it is very marginal demand.’ quote from Michael Carmody.
A few years ago Mac had 10% of the personal computer market, that was before the mega Apple store blitz began. So, what percentage of the market is now Mac, is it almost 20% as mentioned above by DMX Prime?
Any ATO Commissioner would be scandalised if 10% of Australians failed to lodge a tax return - or would that merely be classed as ‘very marginal.’
Okay, so E-Tax has been Windows only for some years now. It’s bought and payed for, it does the job it was specified to do.
Well, I demand to be able to file my tax return on my Amiga 1200, or my Xbox 360. They’re both computer systems with internet access, what’s the gummint gonna do about it?
The ATO will let you submit a BAS online, as long as you have an Auskey digital certificate to verify you are who you say you are. The Auskey software is available for Windows, Mac OS and Linux. Bizarre.
Ahh the Microsoft tax! The ATO demands we use proprietary software sold by a foreign company!
The problem is the ATO and their contractors have targeted a platform and not a protocol. So they targeted Windows, with it’s larger user base. Makes sense, but it’s the wrong approach and becomes a self fulfilling prophesy (e.g. maybe more users would use non-Windows platforms if it weren’t for the critical applications that only work on Windows!).
If they targeted a protocol instead, say HTTP and HTML, then we wouldn’t have this problem. This is how I can do my banking on iphone, Linux, OSX, ipad and even Windows. We know it can be done!
And Carmody had the cheek to invoke the “good use of taxpayers’ funds” argument!?!?!?
Zut Alors - So 20% of the population use Mac’s, what percentge of them want to use e-tax?
In 2010 2.5m people used e-tax, assuming increased use in 2012 lets say 3.5m people will use it in 2012 or about 23% of the working population. Even assuming a greater proportion of Mac users want to use e-tax you would be struggling to get more than 7% of the working population we are talking about here.
On top of that going forward into 2013 with the increase in the tax freee threshold over 1m people will no longer have to lodge returns. I would suggest a lot of those people are the same people who used e-tax last year so the percentage of the working pop effected by not having access through Mac will probably come down further.
To me this is missing the point about just how complicated the Australian tax system is. As an employee with simple tax needs my last NZ tax form was one page. In UK it was optional and if I did it I think 4 pages. Here it is - by comparison - war and peace. If we are going to compare our selves with other countries, how about simplifying the tax code and doing away with the need for a return rather than whining about how it is delivered! What we have only benefits accountants and pretty much pisses off everyone else.
The ATO is actively working on a Mac version of e-tax but it wasn’t ready in time for this tax season:
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/06/e-tax-2012-out-now-no-mac-version-until-2013
What I find a little baffling is why they would spend resources on more platform-dependant versions, when a web-based version (one that you load in your browser) would solve the problem going into the future and negate the need to download a new version each year or for minor updates.
This 4yo laptop has run Ubuntu exclusively and runs eTax in a Windoze VirtualBox. Pretty sure there’d be free virtualisation software for Mac. It’s a hassle but beats doing your tax on the work computer
I have some recollection of _almost_ getting eTax to run in WINE a few years back but some library files were missing or something.
I remember contacting ATO about this years ago and getting the brush off. But Mac’s market share is growing so rapidly they can’t continue to ignore it for much longer.
There’s enough Windows-only software around that it’s worth running Parallels with Windows7 inside that. Then run the eTax software on that. Not as good as having one web app to do all platforms, I’m wondering what problems they encountered there?
I can’t imagine anyone wanting to do a tax return on an iPhone though, even an iPad would be uncomfortable.
* Disclosure I too, am a Mac user
The response from the ATO is woeful. There solution is disgusting. If you use a mac load a virtual box, install windows (which you have to buy) and then use that to do your tax return.
I have already sent them several tweets, prior to July 30 and when they responded that I should just wait…I sent a tweet after June 30. This time no response.
Back in the 1990’s the ATO was run by an extremely progressive head now it is being run by a luddite.
Mac users could just print out the paper form…..
Every year we’re forced to download a new version of the software, check for updates to the software, hunt around for last year’s tax file on our hard disks — presuming we’re still using our same PC, and none of which would be required if it were web based — and fumble our way through what is nothing more than a glorified form.
… Only to have pre-fill data received over, and our eventual lodgement sent over, a platform-agnostic SSL-encrypted internet link.
With everyone but Apple facing sales drops in the tablet market, Apple leading the tablet revolution, Google introducing the high quality and super-cheap AU$249 Nexus 7, and even Microsoft about to add compatibility woes with a range of ARM-based Windows 8 tablets that unlike their Intel counterparts will refuse to run legacy software such as eTax — the ATO shouldn’t be looking at doing a Mac version, they should be doing what they should have done in the first place.
— a secure, platform-agnostic, standards-compliant website.
First of all, everyone’s getting a bit silly in the comments. Both sides. On the one hand, the ATO should be making its software accessible to the sizable proportion of the population who don’t use Windows and their reason for not doing so aren’t sufficient. On the other hand, I don’t recall it being a ratified human right to be free of Windows-based applications as some here have edged towards. It’s not such a travesty; it’s a mere inconvenience.
Most importantly, how could the ATO spend $32m on a piece of software that still creaks along like a hog and looks the way it does? What a rip off.
See a government contract, quadruple your prices.
Everyone knows that John Howard wrote the ticket for Accountants when he brought in the GST.
Reporting went from once per year to 4 times x quarterly per year…not many Accountancy firms ever go broke these days with this bonus added cash flow.
It’s was a costly intrusion, designed to harras, out-flank and trap small businesses into a maze of reporting.
Equally as bad is the is the Govt’s/ATO purse-snatching money-grab on company PAYG.
Plucking figures out of the air by doubling rates of PAYG even in the absence of increased quartely trade figures is outrageous. I know this can be varied,…but you know, it’s still annoying.
Aidan - “Most importantly, how could the ATO spend $32m on a piece of software that still creaks along like a hog and looks the way it does?” Anyone who has any dealings with the ATO knows nothing they do makes much sense.
For example if they ring me to discuss a client I still have to go through proof of identity.
Its a really strange one when you consider most banks use linux with a windows interface??
Madonna - While it is true we now have to do quarterly BAS the amount of time and cost of completing year end accounts has come back because of the work done each quarter.
As for “It’s was a costly intrusion, designed to harras, out-flank and trap small businesses into a maze of reporting.” There are some really smart products out there that make GST and year end reporting paritcularly painless.
“Plucking figures out of the air by doubling rates of PAYG even in the absence of increased quartely trade figures is outrageous. I know this can be varied,…but you know, it’s still annoying.”
PAYG rates are based on the last return you have lodged, if you lodge your return late in the year and have had a significant increase in income the PAYG instalment goes up accordingly. You do have the option in the first quarter to pay your PAYG instalment as a percentage of your quarterly income if you prefer. And as for it being a “purse-snatching money-grab on company PAYG” it is simply prepaying your income tax, would you prefer to be hit with a massive tax bill when you lodge or pay in 4 instalments with a top up at the end?
Mike smith Posted Thursday, 12 July 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink I am a Mac user unhappy but never the less. The words restriction of trade come to mind! Spending $32 million in the way the ATO have, while “restricting the trade” of WWW IT technology which is currently licensed for use in Australia. May be more than a little bit stupid by those entrusted with spending my tax dollars ! Edward James
I remember reading about the ATO making some ‘individual’ portal,, much like their Business Portal (I assume) - wonder if that will be able to submit the tax return via that.
:edit - found the link
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/government/supplier-panel-bypassed-by-ato/story-fn4htb9o-1226157580700
“Mr Gibson said the ATO “sole-sourced” Accenture and sidestepped other panellists because it was the fastest route to achieve strict legislative deadlines. “The Individual Portals release and design phase, super guarantee and unclaimed super are important commitments to government with tight timeframes,” he said.”
Geez ATO, How hard is it to develop a web-based lodgement system? As a professional software developer, I can tell you it can be done for 10% of what they gave DWS. It’s just not that hard, even with all the nonsense that goes on with working with government.
However, try convincing state or Federal governments to develop on the Linux and Apache platform… Basically impossible, even if that is what all the big internet players develop on… Facebook, Wikipedia. Even hotmail doesn’t run on Windows (Solaris last time I checked).
The truth is that the clueless diligently follow the mantra “No one ever got fired for choosing Windows” (yeah - I know it was “buying IBM”, but the same rules apply.
“most banks use linux with a windows interface”
I don’t think so. I’ve been involved in outsourcing contracts with the big 4 banks and they are almost exclusively Microsoft shops at the PC and file server level. Webservers can sometimes be UNIX or apache depending on load, but also predominantly IIS. The reason…banks need vendor support to manage the outage risk. That is why they are reluctant to embrace open source software.
Jimmy mate!
Bean counters like you have prevented me from using the ATO software at work because it’s a download, and we’re not a llowed to do that.
This is the same ATO that stuffed up the software used to produce rebates a couple of years ago, and took months to send them out.
The reality is the ATO has a much deeper technology issue. They’ve taken years to upgrade their internal systems - with delay after delay, not to mention the countless issues the upgrade has then caused with features not working or being poorly implemented (and spent an estimated $800 Million in the process).
The ATO needs an internal team setup purely to look at technology and build their internal and external systems.
I’ve been fed up as well, which is why I developed the first app which lets Australians lodge their tax return straight from their iPhone.
Check us out at http://taptax.com.au/
Jimmy Jimmy..in a perfect world maybe, but what if a company has less trade and figures well-down in the current quarter from the previous quarter. This is not taken into account by the ATO and is reflective in their request for a PAYG amount based on the previous quarter.
Jimmy, I understand that there is the risk of having to top it up later and as I said it can be varied, but it would be better to pay the accurate amount there and then, as they say, as you go.
(While it is true we now have to do quarterly BAS the amount of time and cost of completing year end accounts has come back because of the work done each quarter.)
Put that in writing
otherwise I might think you are one of those right-wing accountancy shrills who love to come here and upset us Lefties. Long Live Gough!!!
Will using a mac make filing a tax return cooler? If so I’ll ditch my windows based pc.
@arnold ziffel - I reckon the company might object to you using work time/equipment to filing a personal tax return.
Speaking as a software engineer, the eTax application has been offending me for years.
It looks like it’s been written with the crappiest old VB, and then has been poorly updated over the years. I’m surprised it works at all.
Out in the real world, an application like that would be well ready for replacement. Even if like me you’re only using it on a PC, it’s still hard to use, makes poor use of screen real-estate, is very hard to navigate and its system for saving and opening files is archaic.
Heck, I could write a better online version in a matter of about seven days.
@MAXCELCAT
Hmmm. I suspect you have never worked for the government before. Imagine trying to get a useful spec out of them.
You are correct about VB tho. What a hopeless piece of software.
To be honest guys, it should not be important at all what operating system you run. The ATO should build a web-based system that is browser agnostic. (except <= IE6 - that is a complete disaster).
What a surprise, Crikey’s resident forensic auditor still has not contribute on this topic!!!
@MAXCELCAT - “I could write a better online version in a matter of about seven days.”
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - yeah, right.
Mikeb - I was responding to the suggestion from my mate Jimmy the accountant.
I’d rather do it at home on my mac, not the crappy crash-prone XP crap I use at work.
Arnold - While your workplace may not accomodate such things there are plenty that do.
My point was that with all the big issues going on in the world the fact that Mr Keane wants to do his tax online and wasn’t able to so he threw a tanty and wrote an article about it doesn’t really rate. The percentage of people who use “non windows” and want to use e-tax and don’t have access to it at work (during lunch hour or after work) or know someone else who would allow them to use it is minimal and getting smaller with less people ldging returns in 2013.
Don’t blame me becasue you are employed by tight ar.ses!
Ever since eTax was first released (15 years ago), I have written to the ATO each year, politely asking when I would be able to use eTax from a Mac. For the first few years, they would answer, saying that they were “working on it”, forecasting a release the following year. Then they just stopped replying at all.
Just as I have written in each year, so have other Mac and Linux users, and the Mac and Linux User Groups. It’s hard to accept that any universal system, like taxation, would be limited to custom software only taking input from Windows. Firstly, custom software is a minefield of lost opportunities, blocked compatability and incredibly expensive and cumbersome custom updates. Secondly, input for any widely-used software should include standard formats, which are by definition not platform-dependent (e.g. Excel, Open Document, CSV).
As other commenters point out, with so many different devices in use and the availability of HTML5, it’s only common sense to set up a web interface using SSL (Secure Sockets Layer, e.g. HTTPS). Any decent coder could do it for them, using standards-supporting components.
It’s irresponsible to advise Mac/Linux users to download emulation software or use public computers. Emulators are notoriously insecure, while public computers (including many work computers) are easily compromised. Do you really want your personal and financial information so easily available to others? You have much more protection when using an updated personal device on an SSL-enabled website (just like with online banking).
As a disabled Mac user, who has great difficulty handwriting, I long for the day I can lodge my tax return via OSX or my iPad. Why make it difficult for citizens to contribute data, and much more expensive for yourself to process it, ATO?
@Jummy,
This article is about ATO wasting huge amounts of money on a hopeless system. This is very common in gov IT.
A huge percentage of people use non-Windows and it will only get bigger, but more importantly, development of thin-cient software is the way to go.
Perhaps expecting the ATO to supply the software is too much. My accountant electronically lodges, and I’m reasonably sure does not use the eTax app. Which seems to indicate that the ATO is willing to release the specs and protocols for lodging to third parties. So, all you keen software engineers (I’m one, just not keen to do this) - develop and sell an app for the Mac.
@Mark: Thin client has degenerated to being a marketing term.