Labor and the myth of the rational voter
Amid the torrent of earnest declarations, comments and wisecracks to mark the start of the carbon price yesterday, there was a moment of bright, shining stupidity that captured the entirety of this “debate”. Radio entertainer Neil Mitchell lashed out at Wayne Swan on Twitter for noting that Whylla, contra Tony Abbott’s apocalyptic claims, remained in existence.
“Is this stuff from Wayne Swan really the level of political debate we want?” he angrily demanded. “People in Whyalla and Yallourn and similar are actually concerned for their future. This reaction is offensive to them.”
It’s apt that we’ve reached the point where the mere assertion of a fact, and one as anodyne as the continued existence of a town, should be deemed by a media figure (albeit one whose job description is to be professionally offended on behalf of his audience) as “offensive”. The carbon price has always been a fact-allergic debate. I speak not so much of the senility of the anti-carbon tax protesters with their hilarious signs and deep anger at a world that won’t stop changing on them. Nor of the proud leadership of the assertion-based community by News Limited, with its decreasingly trusted newspapers.
It goes back further than that, to the original Kevin Rudd policy which was, let us not forget, a truly wretched concoction the development of which demonstrated all the faults that eventually killed that government.
To cover politics in that period was to hear, ad nauseum, the dulcet tones of Penny Wong averring “can I say, we think we’ve got the balance right” for a policy that in effect delayed any action on decarbonisation until the 2020s courtesy of a series of cave-ins to rentseekers, while Labor devoted itself to the twin, and incompatible, goals of trying to both win Coalition support for the package and split its opponents on the issue. When, finally, the policy was abandoned in the face of a crude but effective campaign by Tony Abbott, and Rudd’s fortunes slumped, it was no more than his government deserved for a deeply cynical approach to an issue it had portrayed as the greatest moral challenge of our time.
That his successor promptly ensnared herself in the same issue (LOL citizens’ assembly) and then smashed her credibility to CO2-molecule sized pieces with her post-election reversal was every bit as much just desserts for the women who’d lobbied Rudd hard to dump the issue and run.
As if taking his lead from his opponents, Abbott’s approach has been every bit as mendacious and more. Climate action is the issue par excellence on which Abbott has exemplified his political trademark, a tendency not so much (as Gillard is often accused) to believe in nothing as to believe in everything, occupying all possible positions on an issue, leading the Coalition’s primary advocate of a carbon tax to become its most dogged opponent. But that reversal was merely the platform for an extended campaign of wild overstatement. Abbott’s predictions of the end of Whyalla and other centres and various industries remain unwithdrawn, although some of the metaphors he has deployed have, rather in the manner of Maxwell Smart’s “would you believe” in the face of an incredulous villain, been replaced with softer versions as time has gone on.
With such examples from their political leaders, voters have followed suit. Voters are irrationally convinced that what is in effect a modest carbon price will have grotesque impacts on the economy, far beyond those occasioned by, say, the financial crisis. According to Essential Research, more than half of voters believe the carbon price will increase fuel prices “a lot” when it will have no effect at all. Around 40% believe it will increase grocery prices “a lot”. Nearly a third think it will increase unemployment a lot; one in five think (contrarily) it will increase interest rates a lot.
We’re not talking about the idiot fringe here waving “Bob Brown’s Bitch” placards and likely to die decades before the most serious impacts of climate change are felt. These are real, normal voters, with apparently functioning brains.
The Labor plan — or more correctly the Gillard plan — is that in the face of evidence that the carbon price has lifted unemployment or interest rates or the price of bananas, such voters will abandon their prejudice and look anew and sympathetically at the government. In aid of such a magical transformation, the government is running a campaign at almost election-level intensity, with the Prime Minister’s press staff spending the last 48 hours churning out media alert after media alert. The government will also be aided by a likely further fall in inflationery pressures that will see CPI remain almost flat, while fuel prices may even fall further.
But voters won’t change their minds at all, and certainly not in the time between now and the next election. For one thing, this sort of change, if it occurs, takes a long time: despite the fact that the GST is now firmly embedded in the Australian economy, 30% of voters still think it was a bad idea. That’s after more than a decade.
But, worse, the Labor fantasy is based — irrationally — on the idea of a rational voter. This is less than ever a plausible view of democratic Australia. We’re decreasingly willing to let facts influence our views of public policy. We regard the economy through a lens of our partisan beliefs, so that Liberal voters see only economic misery and financial hardship. We think we’re doing it tough financially even as we travel overseas. We’re convinced many multiples of asylum seekers are arriving than ever set foot here. We refuse to accept the copious evidence that our incomes have risen far more quickly than prices in recent years. We filter information out that doesn’t accord with our views. If that leaves us with no information at all, that’s no problem.
The cliché that you’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts thus appears decreasingly relevant. Indeed, not merely are you entitled to your own facts, it’s right to be offended, Neil Mitchell-style, at anyone offering contrary information. To be contradicted by someone is damn near an attack on your freedom of speech. The irrational anger that motivates some climate denialists to make threats of death and injury to scientists is only an extreme example of the fact that many of us now feel entitled to our own facts.
Perhaps it’s why everyone is so “offended” now. Offence is an entirely subjective state, one unable to be contradicted by any smart-aleck quoting evidence.
Labor’s plan to turn its fortunes around is a fantasy, a fact-based fantasy when the real world relies on make-believe. We’ll spend the next couple of months establishing that. Then it’ll be back to square one. Back to where Labor was in February.










I thought their plan was to ride to election victory on the back of a Tony Abbott implosion.
“Labor’s plan to turn its fortunes around is a fantasy, a fact-based fantasy when the real world relies on make-believe” Thats pretty much it, I had a conversation with a bloke over the weekend who said how bad the carbon price will be, I said the whole thing was being overblown and his response was “a lot of people don’t like it, a lot of poeple ring in Neil Mitchell against it” and I thought well there you go, let’s not check nay facts or figure out how it works and what it will do, if a lot of people are against it enough to ring Neil Mitchell then it must be bad.
I also had someone ring the office today and say “you must be busy changing the software to account for the carbon tax”.
Labor’s plan to turn its fortunes around is a fantasy, a fact-based fantasy when the real world rel ies on make-bel ieve” Thats pretty much it, I had a conversation with a bloke over the weekend who said how bad the carbon price will be, I said the whole thing was being overblown and his response was “a lot of people don’t like it, a lot of poeple ring in Neil Mitchell against it” and I thought well there you go, let’s not check nay facts or figure out how it works and what it will do, if a lot of people are against it enough to ring Neil Mitchell then it must be bad.
I also had someone ring the office today and say “you must be busy changing the software to account for the carbon tax”.
This rather unfairly misrepresents Neil Mitchell. Clearly, what he was objecting to was not ‘the mere assertion of a fact’, rather that, as a contribution to the debate by the Treasurer and Deputy Prime Minister of the country, it was facile in the extreme.
Certainly there are elements of the carbon price debate that seem ‘fact-allergic’, but this wasn’t a good example to use in making that case.
It’s like the opinion poll finding today that people blame the government for the lack of a compromise on asylum seekers, despite Abbott’s absolute, reason-defying intransigence on Malaysia and refusal to strike any sort of deal.
You have to admire his brilliance in a way. He is totally obstructive and destructive and then engineers it so that the government wears the voter opprobrium for the resulting stalemate.
The temptation is to see the electorate as wilfully stupid. Perhaps there’s an element of people not wanting to face the truth on any of these difficult issues. But I do think the media, entranced by the prevailing narrative of Labor incompetence, are letting Abbott get away with murder.
But I do agree with Bernard that Labor needs to stop consider itself that facts and reason will work with an electorate that quite frankly deserves an Abbott government.
Mark - When the “contribution to the debate” is simply trying to point out how ridiculous Abbott’s oft repeated assertion is why is being “facile in the extreme” such a crime. Where was Mitchell’s outrage at Abbott’s factless comment in the first place? Or any of his other so obviously worng statement on this subject?
The climate change debate is over. No more bullsh*t arguments please!
The NBN is being rolled out. No more bullsh*t arguments please!
There is now a price on pollution. No more bullsh*t arguments please!
We now have a Mining Resource Rent Tax. No more bullsh*t arguments!
The asylum seeker solution lies within a regional framework. No country in the world can solve this problem unilaterally. No more bullsh*t arguments please.
Labor’s plan to turn its fortunes around is a fantasy, a fact-based fantasy when the real world relies on make-believe. We’ll spend the next couple of months establishing that. Then it’ll be back to square one. Back to where Labor was in February.
This is another one of BK’s unhelpful cynical predictive statements. It does not ad one iota to an enlightened and honest national debate. These types of articles to my mind only assist the usual bullsh*t artists in there relentless disinformation campaign and in the process undermining the fabric of our society purely for their own ends.
Let us no longer tolerate bullsh*t arguments please. The time has come to put a stop to it.
So Labour should give up and just declare defeat now?
Going by the tenets of this article, then there are no rational voters in Australia, apart possible from some of the subscribers to this site?
Give us a break!
Let’s address some of the thinking behind the subject of this article…
Polls: The latest Herald/Nielsen Poll poll (today) polled 1200 voters for crying our loud…1200! I am no mathematician but that’s a mighty small % to base the voting trends of some millions of voters. Then, based on such small poll numbers we are to extrapolate that the majority of voters lack rational thought?
Second point: I saw the news last evening and the Sydney carbon marchers, apparently recruited from the Nursing homes and retirement villages of the Eastern Suburbs (probably from B Bishops electorate; who addressed them).
The media stated 1000 marchers last evening, 2000 this AM. Well, when the media decides to take off it’s LNP tinted glasses I am certain the number would have been closer to 500, if that. Talk about inflation, but all marchers supplied with nice LNP props.
And in Melbourne the darling of LNP thought and scientific treatise, one Alan Jones, couldn’t even muster that number.
Rational voters…if all supporting Mr Abbott’s irrational arguments were evident from the turn-out on Sunday then he is the emporer without robes.
here’s a free one for the Labour party to run with…Alan Jones mindless comments regarding Climate change science being akin to witchcraft; maybe he can go to the US and lecture the residence of Colorado whilst their houses burn.
Very well said Bernard.
I fear for the future of this country as the quality of public discourse continues to decline.
Moderation again, useless.
The climate change debate is over.
The NBN is being rolled out.
There is now a price on pollution.
We now have a Mining Resource Rent Tax.
The asylum seeker solution li es within a regional framework. No country in the world can solve this problem unilaterally.
This is another one of BK’s unhelpful cynical predictive statements. It does not ad one iota to an enlightened and honest national debate. These types of articles to my mind only assist the usual bullsh*t artists in there relentless disinformation campaign purely for their own ends and in the process undermine the fabric of our society..
Let us no longer tolerate bullsh*t arguments please. The time has come to put a stop to it.
Hope it works this time!
“According to Essential Research, more than half of voters believe the carbon price will increase fuel prices “a lot” when it will have no effect at all”
You do realise that the big oil refining companies in Australia ( Exxonmobile, BP, Caltex and Shell) make up 4 out of the 5 biggest users of energy in Australia (the other is Woodside). It takes a lot of energy to convert crude oil into petrol.
These companies will be hurt by the increased prices of electricity under the carbon tax and will pass it on through increased wholesale prices. This increase in price will make it’s way to the pump.
I think the voters might know more than you think.
MICHAEL WILBUR-HAM (MWH) Posted Monday, 2 July 2012 at 1:52 pm
Then change it.
Do not accept any bullsh*t arguments by anyone any longer. Speak up!
Scott - What is going to have the biggest impact on Fuel Prices, The price of oil, the value of the dollar or the price of carbon? (perhaps you could rank them?)
Gocomsys - I have taken tht approach and been accused of feeding trolls.
SCOTT Posted Monday, 2 July 2012 at 1:58 pm
We need fear campaigns right now like a hole in the head. Leave it to the experts (Abbott and Co for example). No more bullsh*t arguments please.
Tony Abbot’s relentless, fact-free, policy-free parroting attack on Gillard works. Yes, it shouldn’t, and it probably doesn’t on a lot of Crikey readers - but it works for the majority. It makes them anxious and fearful and angry, even when they don’t know why.
I listened to Julia on radio this morning, and she DESERVES to be bested by Abbot’s cynical attack. She just can’t seem to talk like real people do. She’s trapped, directionless, in a didactic spin cycle, channelling her nemesis and parroting the same fact-filled but emotion and connection-free statements ad nauseum. Fearful, angry people just don’t listen to the kind of teacherly arguments she’s making. They’re really not interested in facts, they want not to be afraid.
What a shame to have such a group of talented, articulate, well-meaning politicians so fatally isolated from their people through simple lack of the common touch. And what a set-back for a country which could be so much more - a vibrant leader in this emerging Asian century. But the next election will take us back to the cringing “man-of-steel” days and we will lose years and years of progress overnight, the Left playing “Policies” while the Right plays “Politics”
Tony Abbot is going to continue doing what he’s been doing - both because it works and because he really doesn’t have the intellect or spiritual depth to be anything other than a nay-saying negative reflection on his more-substantial prey.
Politics has now become totally about the “seeming” and not about what “is”, let alone what “could be”. I shudder to image the depth of conversation during some future meeting between Abbot and President Romney.
I disagree entirely.
The election will be (as so many are) about trying to convince that half a million voters in a variety of seats that swing elections. The legendary “swinging voter”.
The broad mass are basically rusted on to either side.
However we may get the ludicrous situation as in NSW and QLD where it’s described as a ‘wipeout’ when in fact, as in QLD the winning party got practically every seat on under 50% of the vote and the MSM as usual, depicts a fraudulent notion that the voter has ‘turned on the government’.
The peculiarities and flaws in the Australian electoral system are the only thing that is showing up in recent years.
What would happen if the Parliament had a conscience vote on asylum seeker policy?
Hate to sound like an advertising guy, but they need to be selling the ‘why’ and not the ‘what’. The sizzle, not the steak. Abbott does that pretty well, peddling fear of a country spiraling out of control (which it’s not), whilst Labor fails to highlight that the carbon tax is policy for an environment out of control (which it is).
No bigger picture policy will be sold by detailing the impact on the price of groceries.
I don’t think it was Abbott who originally said that Whyalla would cease to exist see The Adelaide Advertiser 19 April 2011
THE state’s two key industrial cities will be “wiped off the map” by a carbon tax, a major union warns.
The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said
Neil Mitchell, a “radio entertainer”. That’s gold.
This crazy debate about carbon tax is the inevitible result of the general public getting their “facts” from the shock jocks rather than the scientists and economists.
Maybe if Abbott was held to account, by the media, for treating the public as a bunch of morons, there wouldn’t be so many morons in the general public.
… perhaps we’ve become America
Gocomsys - My take on it is that even though the “trolls” arguments are drivel, they are regurgtitating what is on the likes of Neil Mitchell. If you want to fight back you have to fight them all.
Sunil Dalal - Abbott may not have been the first but he definitely said it. He doesn’t get a pass for repeating rubbish.
Bernard is right about the facts not being good enough. What’s been missing from Labor’s approach for years is passion. The rehearsed, monotonal talking points won’t do it. They need a Keating-like character to say: “Look, we do this now, or it’s going to be forced on our kids. And by that time, the bill will be much, much greater. The idiots on the other side can afford to stick their big boofheads in the sand, because they don’t look beyond the next election.”
“the senility of the anti-carbon tax protesters with their hilarious signs and deep anger at a world that won’t stop changing on them”
Is it any wonder that people reject the carbon tax by a 2 to 1 margin? Patronising insults are typical of Keane and Crikey generally. As if no Green/Left critique of the tax existed.
It does.
The carbon tax is Pythonesque: unilateral; imposed in a global recession by a minority government which announced it would not impose such a tax, at a level which will cause some economic damage to sectors already stressed by the high dollar etc (and yes of course Abbott exaggerates the damage); cannot possibly achieve its object (emissions will rise); “compensates” the biggest “polluters” to the tune of 94%; global carbon price is about $7 and forecast to fall to $4 in the near term, so $23 is pointless self-harm; creates an absurd carousel of cash which directs revenue to (i) consumer compensation (ii) the ‘polluters” (iii) $13 billion to unreliable, immature, redundant technology such as domestic solar and wind, which merely reinforces existing class inequity, rorting and waste in the electricity market…but the crowning absurdity is Keane’s own correct conclusion:
“But voters won’t change their minds at all, and certainly not in the time between now and the next election.”
So what are Keane and Crikey going to do for the next decade? Turn each election into a referendum on a carbon tax? Try to revive the global warming extremism which Lovelock and others have already apologised for?
The Right- and their knuckle-scraping Redneck entourage (creatures Keane has never seen) can’t believe their luck….
Jimmy, I hear what you’re saying, but put it this way. If anyone, let alone a resident of Whyalla, has taken on board what Abbott has said (no matter how ill-founded) and has concerns about their long-term future as a result, do you think they’ll be reassured or more disposed to listen rationally to the government as a result of Swan’s statement?
I venture to suggest that quite the opposite is the case - which is essentially what Mitchell said.
Peter Bayley
Yup, I wish she could talk in normal dialogue. It’s annoying when she talks like she’s reading out a lecture note or talking to us like little school kids.
Throw your voice add some inflection and emotion, get rid of the monotone. Stop the shy or laidback mumbling Melburnian speech, you are a leader now. And don’t keep talking about Abbott by scaring us about him in the same way he does to you, we don’t want to see our leader to get down to that rabid dog level. Sure you can’t be elegant with your ocker accent, but you can show a bit of grace.
DON’T PETROL COMPANIES GET FREE CARBON PERMITS? We also get Tapis oil from Singapore exchange.
I like the comparison of Tony Abbott and Maxwell Smart. Someone needs to make a GIF of that featuring the opposition leader.
It also fits the way conservatives have reacted to climate change from the very start: five years ago it was a complete hoax; now it’s an anthropogenic phenomenon which is too expensive to bother addressing.
Pity poor Greg Combet, Minister for Anxiety, driven to stand outside a coalmine on the weekend, stating that coal had a great future. Australia is the chief beneficiary of the biggest fossil fuel bonanza in history, exporting much of the world’s CO2. The govt. will make damned sure nothing gets in the way of that…
Australia is a study in hypocrisy.
like we’re little school kids
Gocomsys - Now is you challenge, Frank Campbell has made a statement full of ridiculous and factually incorrect points, be a man of your word and put him to the sword.
Mark - This article points out that the public aren’t listening to rational debate and yet if the govt don’t debate rationally they are derided. As for people listening tune in to Neils program and you will him them repeating Abbott’s incorrect lines all the time, and in my electorate (Wannon) it is what the vast majority believe.
PETER BAYLEY Posted Monday, 2 July 2012 at 2:07 pm
That is the problem we are talking about. Presentation over substance. Nobody “deserves” to be bested by somebody talking bullsh*t. It shouldn’t matter how things are being presented by anyone if the facts speak for themselves.
Fact: Tony Abbott and his cronies intentions are out in the open and we know who supports those views and why. We also know what they are advocating is not in the public and in the national interest.
All of us have to get the message out there. Bernard Keane and articles like this are not helping.
Tell everyone that we no longer accept bullsh*t from anyone! If the MSM gives free space and airtime for bullsh*t arguments, let them know in no uncertain terms.
My bullsh*t allergy seems to be flaring up again. Time to leave before the trolls arrive and this whole debate deteriorates as usual.
Ironically Yallourn hasn’t existed for years. It was bulldosed and dug up in the 1980’s to mine coal.
Labelling people “troll” for stating a contrary opinion is just divisive.
If Frank Campbell will conduct a debate reasonably, critique responses intelligently and answer questions put to him, then he deserves a proper response.
If he goes down the road of shouting “commies!” whenever the facts don’t match his assertions, then send him to the troll bucket.
Well said BK. But is it too optimistic to retain some hope that sooner or later, the facts will win out? If you rely on groupthink and assertion-based arguments, you’ll convince a lot of people for a while, but eventually you still run up against the wall of What Actually Happens.
This reminds of Eric Beecher’s article a couple of weeks ago, which featured Roger Corbett thundering “I don’t want anyone coming into this boardroom and telling me things I don’t want to hear!” (or words to that effect). Hasn’t worked out too well for Fairfax in the long term has it?
“When, finally, the policy was abandoned in the face of a crude but effective campaign by Tony Abbott, and Rudd’s fortunes slumped, it was no more than his government deserved for a deeply cynical approach to an issue it had portrayed as the greatest moral challenge of our time.” says Keane…
This is the conventional wisdom.
But no one is being honest.
What changed in late 2009? The virulence of the climate change virus had been declining since 2006, but Copenhagen made it clear that the world would henceforth merely pretend to believe in climate Armageddon. The problem is that all parties had signed up at the height of the mania- including Howard and Abbott. Everyone is stuck with policies and beliefs they need to modify or jettison- they are in effect managing the decline in belief. The tragedy of the ALP is that it could only govern by capitulating to the Greens’ demand for a carbon tax. A Faustian bargain, given that traditional ALP interests and values are contrary to and undermined by such policies: hence Combet’s Dilemma.
Both the Liberals and Labour are hamstrung by “climate” policies cobbled together in the fever of a time now well past…Both support the MRET, which squanders billions on unreliable, useless and/or premature renewable energy technologies.
So it’s not about “pathetic Rudd”, or “lack of courage” or the other gobbets of psychowaffle that Keane et al hurl about. Keane’s conclusion says it all:
“the Labor fantasy is based — irrationally — on the idea of a rational voter. This is less than ever a plausible view of democratic Australia.”
The reverse is true: so much has been invested in climate exaggeration by Keane and progressives generally that they are unable to admit the obvious- the hysteria is over. Most voters now have a moderate view of climate change- so they can modify their views. And they have. Berating them as selfish lemmings in thrall to shockjocks just underlines how far Keane and his kind have drifted from… rationality.
While this article may point out the “public” are not listening to rational debate, we are not all that stupid. I have my own experience with Labor to guide me politically. My often published position is Labor nationally is simply no dam good. Edward James
Repeat after me one and all. We cannot compromise on asylum seekers when the only thing the cretins were debating is how to break our own frigging laws.
The entire debate was ignored by the media because of this deranged delusion that we can break our own laws and push people off to the murk for politics.
I would suggest people read what really happened last week from Peter Van Onselen and Frank Brennan.
It had nothing to do with anything but getting around the high court ruling under the guise of caring that some refugees drowned - after we took 39 hours or so to ask for a rescue to happen.
The cretin media and pollsters need to just stop their frigging whinging and inciting hatred against innocent human beings who just want help.’
Like Tony Wright today in the SMAGE whinging that smugglers have just found Cocos Island while ignoring the fact that Cocos Island has been known to the Sri Lankans for centuries and they actually sail themselves here and always have.
I am sick to death of all this whining and whinging, just uphold the law.
@Jimmy
“What is going to have the biggest impact on Fuel Prices, The price of oil, the value of the dollar or the price of carbon? (perhaps you could rank them?)”
All these factors are going to have an effect. There is no one factor…all play a role.
It is generally known that it is the petrol pump price is a combination of singapore crude price (in Aussie dollars), inflation, fuel excises/taxes, transport/storage costs, wholesale margin and the retail margin (which can vary widely state to state based on supply and demand). Add the carbon tax to the mix.
I’m just saying that there will be an effect on petrol prices based on the carbon tax (which BK is stating as an example of the voters stupidity…i disagree).
I’m not stating that it will be the only cause of price changes, or even the most important one. Just that it will play a role.
As for petrol companies getting free carbon permits, I’m not talking about their tier 1 emissions (which relatively small…their liability each under the carbon tax is between $36,000,000 to $58,000,000 based on 2010 emissions…they get around 94.5% free permits thanks to the government in the first year which phase out in the years to come). I’m talking about their power bills…..which they will pass on in increased margins.
Scott - “All these factors are going to have an effect. There is no one factor…all play a role.” Exactly Scott and with the high dollar putting downward pressure on prices and the Singapore crude price declining (at least partially due to the global recession) is the price on carbon going to be noticed? I mean petrol prices in Melbourne are about 30-40c lower than they were 4-6 months ago is the carbon price going to add that much?
I think BK assertion is quite right when the impact of the carbon price on petrol can (and currently is) being more than wiped out becuase of the other factors that set the price. In short it’s impact won’t be noticed unless you assign the other factors incorrectly to it and shouldn’t be a factor in voting intention.
How utterly pathetic that the only political solution our two major parties have come up with is to hide from the laws of the country they represent. Surely they either must change these laws if they don’t like them (even if doing so requires a referendum), or they must accept the consequences?
Our political leaders respecting the law of the land they serve should be the only principle not open to compromise in this debate.
Peter Van Onselen
Would you let a shock-jock carry out brain surgery on you? Look what they’ve done to themselves.
Prejudice and saving face seem to trump an awful lot of reason, for a lot of people.
SCOTT Posted Monday, 2 July 2012 at 3:05 pm
FRANK CAMPBELL Posted Monday, 2 July 2012 at 3:00 pm
The real issue.
We are running out of oil fast. Peak oil has past. We need to adjust. What we are doing right now is “talking” about re-arranging the decks chairs on the titanic. What the price on carbon and on pollution is designed to do is to make us all aware of the fact that we must adapt to changing times. It is no longer advisable to keep our head in the sand as previous governments have done.
We all collectively have to learn to live with the consequences of our previous neglect.
Good on the Gillard government against all odds having taken the first step.
First thing to do is to stop this irrational short term thinking and our what’s in it for me attitude! If anybody does it tell them its bullsh*t and ask them to look at the bigger picture.
Speak up and stop the rubbish that’s being circulated in the MSM by the usual vested interests!
Thanks Scott. So energy consumption won’t be converted and estimated a part of emission. It would depend how much it represents in the total cost of the operation as well to know how much the mark up will be. I am aware of power bill being passed on. Treasury estimate says overall inflation will be 0.7 so I think we’ll cope alrite.
Marilyn, if you care about refugees so much you should go to Bangladesh and look after them like mother Tesesa instead of ranting on the internet.
The way you’ve been ranting, it’s hard for people to believe that you truly have compassion for anybody. More like you, Suz, Geez and Patriot come from the same family.
Bernard
When 80% of Austrlains think Brand Power is an independant evaluator of products why are you surprised that rational voters are a myth.
That’s part of why the media must exercise care, logic, balance & integrity……Sadly these seem to be absent too ofetn.
The great unanswered question of the past two years is how has Abbott got away with being policy free and to be shown to panic unedr pressure.
The normal conventions about policy & opposition during the early stage of a term do not apply as there is a far greater chance of an early election when there is a minority governement.
Abbott has been shouting give me power now! Therefore he should declare his policies now.
For example does he or does he not believe in Climate Change. Please just get a definitive answer on that one
@THE PAV,
One of the reasons the climate change debate is so stuffed is that I think you can ask the same questions to Gillard - does she or does she not believe in climate change?
I argue that if Gillard really did believe in climate change that not only would her selling of the carbon tax be very different, but the Labor government would have done things very differently since they came into power.
And just as irrational as the view that the carbon tax will destroy us all is the meme promoted by Labor that the carbon tax is an adequate response to climate change.
All who recognise what must be done to act on climate change have praised the carbon tax only as a good first step. Labor have made it pretty clear that they have no intention of taking a second step.
So as I see it, irrationality is just as much a problem with the Labor side of politics as with the conservatives.
Gocomsys: “We are running out of oil fast. Peak oil has past. “
If only. What the higher recent oil price has driven is not research into renewables but a rush to oil shale and to gas. US gas prices recently crashed to $2. Opening up more difficult oil deposits was always on the cards- and technology has rapidly improved since 2000.
So the debate has changed. Peak oil has been postponed. Again. Pushing up the price of power by subsidising unreliable, expensive existing renewable technologies is one driver of new oil and gas expansion…
so many unintended consequences…
Frank - So If Peak oil has been postponed do you recommend taking the grasshopper approach and playing merrily all summer and deal with oil running out later or do we take the ant approach and make the most of this “postponment” and invest in renewables and other things that might postpone the peak even longer?
What is with the left’s obsession with the word “democracy”, and the idea that the idea itself doesn’t actually exist in Australia? If “democracy” had been served, we’d have gone to an election long ago…how ironic…
“But, worse, the Labor fantasy is based — irrationally — on the idea of a rational voter. This is less than ever a plausible view of democratic Australia. We’re decreasingly willing to let facts influence our views of public policy. We regard the economy through a lens of our partisan beliefs, so that Liberal voters see only economic misery and financial hardship. We think we’re doing it tough financially even as we travel overseas. We’re convinced many multiples of asylum seekers are arriving than ever set foot here.”
Wait a minute. WAIT. A. GOD. DAMN. MINUTE!
Did the author just rant on about democracy, only to suggest that Liberal voters…have it wrong? Oh how hypocritical (you can’t spell “left” without “hypocrite”, though). It is a Liberal voter’s democratic RIGHT to think, erm, conservatively when it comes to economics.
Of course Liberal voters will be worried about the economy. GDP growth is rising thanks to the mining sector, but, alas! We’re taxing that sector! It also pisses off many a Liberal voter when Greens and Labor voters quip and joke about how the sky hasn’t fallen, even though people ARE losing their jobs because of the carbon tax (that’s a fact). It’s especially inappropriate. At a time when the Carbon Tax is being introduced, it seems OK to mock the wealthy and laugh about people losing their jobs, but if you say one damn thing about gay marriage or women, well, good luck!
And regarding overseas, what is the author getting at? That because we’re doing better than Europe we should be happy with the current economic position the country’s in.
I just don’t get you people. OF COURSE the Liberals are going to be critical of the economy. THEY’RE CONSERVATIVES! DAHHHHHH!
“We refuse to accept the copious evidence that our incomes have risen far more quickly than prices in recent years. We filter information out that doesn’t accord with our views. If that leaves us with no information at all, that’s no problem.”
Wrong. Salaries are rising, but productivity is FALLING. If prices stay the same, salaries rise, but output drops, what happens to small business? I look forward to the author’s response.
Seriously, I thought Crikey was meant to be “independent”, “unbiased” and “balanced”?
What, it’s OK for Crikey to write intellectual, academic dribble about voters and policy, but as soon as News Ltd. does it, BAM! MEDIA INQUIRY!
Seriously, this site is turning into a hostile cesspool of smug rhetoric.
People know the facts. Liberals know the facts. They just don’t like how they’re being addressed. To suggest that figures are “good” and that the Liberals should be happy showcases a lack of understanding over conservative thinking, and ESPECIALLY conservative capitalism.
Crikey: “HEY EVERYONE, AUSTRALIA IS AN AWESOME WELFARE STATE WITH LOTS OF TAX! WE ALSO HATE WEALTHY PEOPLE!”
Liberal Party: “WE DISAGREE!”
Crikey: “SHAME! SHAME!”
*sigh*
Ahh another who doesn’t understand the term “peak oil”.
Peak Oil does not mean we are running out of Oil, Peak Oil refers to a point where demand outstrips supply. In other words the oil may last 1000 years but we can’t get it out of the ground fast enough.
Unfortunately for the left their Great Big Carbon Tax does absolutely nothing to increase renewables. The Carbon Tax is a punishment based system that says you must cut back on CO2 emissions. What it doesn’t do is make renewable or low CO2 technology cheaper. In fact Oil and Coal is so much cheaper than renewables it’s STILL cheaper even with the carbon tax.
At least Tony Abbotts direct action plan, which is incentive based might actually work.