Gillard: just a matter of when
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It’s hard to resist the sense that somehow, Julia Gillard’s prime ministership is cursed. She has started the year in the same way as she finished 2011. All the focus on her leadership and its ineptitude, while Tony Abbott, an unpopular, facile opportunist, makes merry with her flaws and offers nothing of substance. The decision to breach the agreement with Andrew Wilkie was Gillard’s, taken fully cognizant of its political impacts. The Australia Day debacle appears to have been one cooked up in her office, without her knowledge, raising significant questions about how it operates. That senior people within her office, up to her chief of staff, knew about the actions of Tony Hodges from soon after events at the Lobby but seem to have left her none the wiser is a remarkable failure, badly letting down the Prime Minister. Nonetheless, it serves as a potent symbol of everything that is wrong with her government, despite its slow, steady chugging away at reform and its excellent economic management. There was nothing particularly unusual about the actions of Tony Hodges. It’s one of the jobs of media advisers to make sure attention is drawn to the actions of opponents deemed embarrassing. It was his judgment that was the problem — that there was any particular advantage to be gained from encouraging a response to Abbott’s comments, and then deciding to act on that on a day when the Prime Minister’s role should have been entirely focused on being a national leader. The opposition is busily overcooking the whole thing. The “formal” referral of the matter to the AFP by Christopher Pyne and Tony Abbott fell rather flat today when the AFP promptly said there was nothing to investigate; on previous form, Pyne will now call for an ANAO inquiry, and then a judicial inquiry if that doesn’t produce the result he wants. Abbott’s declaration that it was the most serious security breach in 40 years was absurd. But it doesn’t matter; the opposition could relaunch the Salem witch trials at the moment and it wouldn’t shift the spotlight off a Prime Minister who can’t take a trick. Naturally it all feeds into leadership speculation. Ever since the Labor conference, Kevin Rudd has needed to do nothing but watch the PM stumble. Bear in mind some of the efforts from Rudd’s office when he was prime minister weren’t much more dignified. Lachlan Harris and Tim Gleason had to apologise to Brendan Nelson for “not remaining facing the television screen” during Nelson’s response to the apology to the Stolen Generations, after the turned their backs in Parliament House. Rudd’s office so alienated the press gallery with its constant and cynical media management, particularly when Rudd travelled away from Canberra, that the moment Rudd’s poll numbers succumbed to gravity, it turned on him with ferocity. Regardless, it all translates into negative momentum for Gillard. The long-awaited recovery looks further away than ever. The Labor Caucus has been far more patient with Gillard than it was with Rudd; Labor didn’t even fall behind the Coalition in polling before he was axed. The same fate looks almost certain for the woman he replaced. It’s just a matter of when. |
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222 Comments
Negative headline par excellence! Well done! The article itself is not too bad. Suitable for the Australian!
Gillard: just a matter of when!
Keane: just a matter of when?
Really. So, ‘when’ could be 2018? Or if you think it’s imminent why don’t you just say so?
Information on the crikey website today about a back entrance to the restaurant is further indication that this whole thing was a setup job. I could not understand why in the event of there being a security threat that a rear entrance was not considered by the “keystone cops”, but I must assume the politicisation of the AFP is so complete that they have been complicit in a publicity stunt to make the PM look good.
From the orchestration of this by Hodges, the misinformation provided to the tent embassy crowd, probably through a combination of Chinese whispers facilitated by apparatchik Sattler, the crass performance of the AFP, and shoving everybody out of the way in front of the TV cameras, whilst not using the logical rear exit option would indicate that the whole system is in total disarray.
Now Wilkie will have the “revenge of the nerds in relation to a no-confidence motion. All I can say is bring it on and get rid of this disgusting abomination masquerading as Prime Minister.
The idea that Rudd could possibly get the numbers is a bit ridiculous, Shorten won’t want to have more blood on his hands and ther is really no one else.
The “Long awaited recovery” has been occuring over the past 6 months (just very slowly) and it won’t be until the second half of this year when the carbon tax & MRRT are shown not to be the terrible things Abbott says they are that any real improvement will be seen. The ALP still benefits from the long game, while Abbott continues only to focus on the short term.
If it was all over for Gillard it would’ve all been over in the middle of last year. Unless the trajectory back to Labor, which has been in swing for months now, stops she’s safe. More than safe.
A good article.
Australia is doing well economically when you compare us to other wealthy countries - low unemployment, low inflation and a historically low level of industrial disputes. Interest rates are higher than in most OECD countries but are lower than they were under John Howard. Recall how important interest rates were in the 2007 Federal Election campaign. The issues where she is doing worst and getting lots of attention (e.g. refugees, pokies) are really marginal to the ongoing health of the nation.
However, it seems that Julia Gillard could cure cancer, bring about world peace or reduce unemployment to 1960’s levels and still find a way to look bad. Either she doesn’t get the message right, fluffs the implementation or stuffs up badly when she tries to outwit the opposition in the game of political point scoring.
As for this latest kerfuffle, I can’t imagine why this staffer thought it would be a good idea to make Tony Abbott seem unsympathetic to the aboriginal cause, especially to activists in the Tent Embassy. Surely the staffer could see that this wouldn’t lose the Coalition one vote, especially among the talkback crowd and fans of the tabloids. What’s on next - make Tony Abbott seem to be unkind to unions (perhaps triggering a petrol strike)? Accuse Tony of saying nasty things about welfare recipients?
‘despite its slow, steady chugging away at reform and its excellent economic management’.
Perhaps you could write a bit more about topics like this, Bernard, rather than joining the hysterical media scrum making a mountain out of a molehill (your article is better than the headline).
The groove of negativity in the cycle of reporting about Julia Gillard is so well-worn that media commentators slip back into it without knowing that the groove exists let alone that they’re in it.
And it’s only January! It’s a really depressing thought that obsession with events like this is going to be what passes for political analysis again this year.
I see you have your American spelling checker on, Bernard — cognizant and judgment???
Bernard,
Who on earth does Crikey have subbing and whacking headlines on stories?
Not worth feeding mate. Far too much tabloid training… a discipline unnecessary on a website where space is less costly and scarce. They get it wrong often.
To me the saddest aspect is that yet again Tony Abbott has dog-whistled, this time the closure of the Tent Embassy, and not only won brownie points from his “rabid” supporters, but managed to make the PM look bad, due a little over zealousness on the part of her security, but more pertinently due to misguided actions by a junior member of her staff.
In one of the most salubrious suburbs of Melbourne on Saturday I overheard some the local Libs state categorically that Gillard had set up the whole event!! Ray Hadley would have been proud of them, but many other voters would have simply felt that the PM was in some way involved to her detriment.
We have the worst of both worlds a PM who can’t take a trick in terms of popular opinion and an Opposition leader who takes every trick, but deserves none!
It would be reasonable to assume that BK is just being straight Devil’s Advocate but, like Paul Sheehan in the SMH, it really seems that he’s auditioning for a job on the OZ.
Rats normally leave sinking shits ..errr..ships.
Unfortunately it is true that Gillard is her own worst enemy. There was no crime, not even a breach of “convention” - Hodge was doing his job, well in my view, yet this bunch of pusillanimous poltroons throws him to the baying pack.
The behaviour of the usual suspects in Opposition, Chrissy Whine, Blaggart Brandis and … oddly, not the MM. Some strange new strategy of aloof and above the scum..? Hardly.
@ Pedantic Balwyn
I’m not sure how you define a dog whistle, but the observation that the 10 ended tent embassy had outlived its usefulness was probably correct. I am not a rabid supporter of the “Mad Monk, but I don’t disagree with his statements when they are logical and fairly based”.
The presumption that Gillard has set this up as a little far-fetched, but it looks fairly certain that this situation was orchestrated from within her office to create a photo opportunity to make her look heroic in saving Abbott from the mob.
Unfortunately the keystone cops misjudged the situation and muffed her “photo op”. These are the same keystone cops involved in the Haneef affair, so why would onenot be cynical. The observation that they are the “Gestapo” to the PM of the time does not that sound far-fetched.
The PM might take a trick or two in terms of popular opinion if she was in such a disingenuous piece of baggage ( note to moderator I did not use the “L Word”so I wonder whether disingenuous is in your Nanny list).
AR,
I wouldn’t mind betting that the Libs have finally picked up on the focus groups where the fine detail shows Abbott loses ground for attacking Gillard directly and angrily. Gillard has also been using her front bench to do the heavy lifting on Abbott for the last few months.
Tony is trying to change his spots. Watch for changes of tone.
Of course the Liberal-cough cough-parliamentarians had absolutely nothing to do with this latest, pumped up, piece of theater have they?
I wonder who would make the better Iago, Christopher Pyne or Tony Abbott? Because the unfortunate Julia Gillard would make a splendid Othello.
And for the ‘Blather Brigade’ Ready the bl”oody play if you want to know what I’m talking about.
Venise - unfortunately, the erstwhile Riene Ranga, is now just a water logged Ophelia.
Labor won’t go back to Rudd. In true Labor form, they hate his guts. They always did - after all, he only got the job in the first place because he polled well. That said, Rudd is the only one the electorate is probably willing to consider. A challenge by Rudd might work and help lift Labor’s stocks but then Rudd would have to deliver (and my, how quickly we forget the reason he was dumped in the first place).
Shorten will just look like ‘the faceless men’ profiting from Rudd’s dismissal and taken home the prize they were after in the first place. It just wouldn’t look good. The only person I personally can see leading is Simon Crean. he’s been there before so he knows what to expect. And now he presents as an old Labor hand, not tainted with the problems this new lot seem to have brought in with them.
It would have to be triggered by a Rudd challenge though, and Simon puts his hat in the ring as Julia pulls hers out. Bill can’t challenge nor can Simon directly challenge as then it just looks like swapping the deckchairs yet again (Bad polling? Dump the Leader!). Julia effectively has to resign.
Question is, would she?
Just a matter of when?? Perhaps a matter of whom is a better question… If not JG then whom ?? Kevin will not get the gig. Its unthinkable.. And the short little guy .. the pudgy one with the big suits… Or that union bloke what’s his name … you know the one.. or that Combo guy with the glasses and … no the other one.. you know with the haircut.. yeah him…nah not him either… Jeez JG don’t look to bad under the circumstances especially compared to that dork with the big ears that walks like freaken gorilla on razor blades.. the one who compared the drowning deaths off of Italy with stopping refugees. him … she don’t look bad compared to him… yeah that guy who reckons dead aussie soldiers is just sh*t happening… you know who doesn’t really do the internet and that… Yeah she’s looking real good in that light. REAL GOOD.
ridiculous. the one casualty to come out of labors loss at the next election with be the media. will keane be relegated to “Kardashian Watch” when he can’t waffle on about the so-called dire straights of the labor party?
More lazy “journalism” from Keane.
Couldn’t be bothered with some genuine analysis of policy he reverts back to the lazy option of serving up some shallow navel gazing of the polls.
Would work well at The Oz this tripe.
The polls from the last 2 days and the media response to them clearly show the problem the govt has, yesterday’s showed a strong increase in labor primary vote but the media focused on “Rudd ahead of Gillard”, today shows a small drop in the primary vote and unchanged 2pp and yet it is “the worst start to the year ever” as if the poll results in January are more important than any other month and despite Gillard still leading Abbott as preferred PM and on approval rating the focus is on Abbott closing the gap.
In fact it has got to the stage where I know the ALP has done well in the 2pp poll when the headline on sunrise is about preferred PM or some other meaningless figure. Even the “primary vote” is completely meaningless as a large portion of labors primary vote has leaked to the greens (who’s preferences they get back generally) so all the “historic” references are largely irrelevant, after all if the ALP can be trailing just 54-46 with only 31% of the primary vote clearly show that if the cna increase their primary vote by taking votes from the Libs rather than the Greens they don’t need to get anywhere near the fabled 40%.
Jim,
Your concerns about how pollsters deal with preferences is spot on. And it is absolutely critical in determining the outcome.
Cr*key’s pollster of choice, Essential, for example, just shoehorns “intended preferences” back into the 2010 figures - and they do it across the board. So that means that notional preferences are allocated based on the 2010 national average pattern. Top science that!
Aside from that there is a significant difference between the purported “intentions” of a mob of punters now and their actual intentions formed when the name of candidates is known, when issues and policies emerge, when people actually form an intention.
In reality the “intentions” reported in mid-term polls are a popularity figure, a worm of a thing, that fosters the notion of “permanent campaigning”, that the purpose of government is constant popularity, that it is the sham surveys of market researchers and ad-men that are the arbiters of public policy.
This “constant scrutiny” - this “brand identification” - is trivial. And it trivialises the business of government. And it trivialises the journos who breathlessly peddle it.
Just “54-46%”
LOL LOL LOL.
Thats landslide territory for the Libs champ and would be one of the worst Labor defeats in history.
Even Keating in 1996 got slightly better than 46% TPP.
What we need is a Comrade Pete to come in and censor the media, enforce authoritarian governments on these ungrateful Australians and demand allegiance to The Dear Leader.
Geewizz - “Even Keating in 1996 got slightly better than 46% TPP.” Yes and Keating’s Primary vote was much higher than 31%! You really should read the whole sentence and try to grasp the point being made, I didn’t deny it would be an easy victory to the Coalition but I was stating 46% is historically high for an ALP primary vote of 31%.
It would also be interesting to compare Howrds 2pp vote at the same stage of his terms.
Peter - If journo’s put as much effort into reporting policy as they did polls the nation would be much better off, shame that polls just need a narrative and regurgitating figures while policy requires analysis and comprehension.
Geewizz - “Even Keating in 1996 got slightly better than 46% TPP.” Yes and Keating’s Primary vote was much higher than 31%! You should read the whole sentence and try to grasp the point being made, I didn’t deny it would be an easy victory to the Coalition but I was stating 46% is his high for an ALP primary vote of 31%
Peter - If journo’s put as much effort into reporting policy as they did polls the nation would be much better off, shame that polls just need a narrative and regurgitating figures while policy requires analysis and comprehension.
It would also be interesting to compare Howrds 2pp vote at the same stage of his terms
Peter - The fact that we get so much analysis of polls and so little analysis of policy is disturbing.
Geewizz - “What we need is a Comrade Pete to come in and censor the media, enforce authoritarian governments on these ungrateful Australians and demand allegiance to The Dear Leader.”
Making as much sense as usual, what Peter and I are wanting is in fact more scutiny
of policies.
This article hints at but does not truly nail the problem with Gillard - which is Gillard.
This is just a case where one individual is simply lacking in the qualities necessary to perform in a given role - or let’s say a “taken” role - and Gillard is just in the middle of a long process of exposure - it’s like that idiot, whatsisname - Latham - it’s just that Latham self-destructed much more quickly and with much more violence.
Now she is in the top job, everything about Gillard simply underwhelms - again and again and again.
Her relationship with the First Bloke - what is really wrong with it is that they are both just so dull. Maybe they are each other’s beards, maybe not, who cares? The point is, what would you think about any woman - or any man for that matter - who ended up in a relationship with their hairdresser? Seriously - hands up anyone who wouldn’t think that scenario was just sad and tragic?
And now we have this latest fiasco. Gillard, a woman and showing it, is obviously personally unable to control or exercise authority over a group of police officers who are meant to protect her. She has taken the “we are too serious to be questioned” bullshit from these guys hook, line and sinker, and she has demonstrated her sad but persistent inability to lead but very literally losing control.
The guy who knocked her over and his boss are both incompetent idiots. Gillard, on being knocked over by this clumsy dolt, should have stoood up, said, “Take your hands off me and find my shoe!” After regaining her composure she should have then walked to the car and immediately given instructions for the bozo and his boss to be sacked immediately for creating a disaster out of nothing.
Now, five days later, this is still the leading national political news story - and it is all for nothing. It is all because Gillard is simply not a leader and this is just one more example of it. She also has the unfortunate habit of painting herself into corners for reasons she doesn’t really understand. Toeing the standard line that “you can’t second guess the security personnel” was just the latest big mistake.
The only way Gillard could have recovered from this was by saying, at some point as soon as possible after it all started spinning out of control, what is the truth - this was never a security incident, there never was any threat to her well-being at all, that an incompetent idiot had knocked her over, given the media some great pictures, but it was all a storm in a teacup and that the officer was re-assigned.
But no, the simple truth is always just too hard - so now Abbott is still screeching about how this total non-event was the worst security breach in living memory - and because Gillard was too weak to stamp her authority on the situation at any point, her only defence is to climb on board and start talking about a very ordinary group of Australians as if they had put her in threat of her life.
Sure, maybe you can say this about all political leaders, but Gillard is incapable of admitting she has made a mistake and recovering from it. The difference here is that that she is different - or she is supposed to be - but she never demonstrates that difference. She literally and figuratively allows herself to be dragged along by forces obviously much stronger than her who are beyond her control.
You might think I was still talking about the idiot cop, but I actually mean Bill Shorten.
Even Simon Crean is giving it to Rudd today and Graham Rihardson is giving it to Rudd and Gillard.
Gillard is a goner, unbackable loser
Agent wizz…
Again you have spotted The Plan. Before it was even conceived. The Order of Lenin is in the mail.
Sadly though Troofie you have as little grasp of irony as you have of most else. Or of detail.
The Divine, the Beloved, the Illustrustrious All-Seeing All knowing Leader (default) is none other than your own Tony Abbott. You know, the one whose very lifeblood he laid on the line for us all in the Battle of the Lodge last week.
Now speaking of grasp: One of the things I like about this place is how “ungrateful” we are … no forelock tugging, no yessir, no three bags full sir. This is not thanks to you, or people like you Troofie. I reckon you tories spend much of your servile lives forelock tugging … tugging something anyway. Like your “race riot”, sorry RACE RIOT.
So please try and keep your fist on the issue at hand as it were. Try and say something sensible about statistical methodology, sampling, or how good these guys are at doing their surveys. Or, is it as usual, that you just cling to those things you feel are right and true - like a belief that Tony Abbott (Our Beloved Victim) can’t lose - and ignore anything else.
An untrue believer. The sort of person who believes the polls.
Yes you said that Labor just needs to win back some votes from the Coalition voters. Simple.
But wait…. Labor has turned into a fringe leftwing rabble pretending to be the Greens-Lite, why in gods name would any current Coalition voters vote for them?
They can’t stop the boats, they keep jacking up taxes, they keep trying to enforce leftwing ideals on normal hard working Australians…. they hate Australian culture and customs, WHY would WE vote for them?
As I have stated previously, Labor used to be the party of the worker, now they are the party of leftwing elites, union heavies and inner city latte sippers.
John Howard dies and goes to hell. When he gets there he finds sitting on a seat at the entrance Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and Colonel Gadaffi, all ex-political leaders also waiting for admission.
While there, they spy a red phone and ask what the phone is for.
The Devil tells them it is for calling back to Earth, and that they can have one last phone call before they are admitted.
Saddam Hussein asks to call Iraq and talks for 15 minutes. When he is finished the devil informs him that the cost is a million dollars, so Saddam Hussein writes a cheque.
Gadaffi calls Libya and talks for an hour. When he is finished the Devil informs him that the cost is 4 million dollars, so he writes a cheque.
Bin Laden asks to call Saudia Arabia and talks for two hours. When he is finished the devil informs him that the cost is eight million dollars, so Bin Laden writes a cheque.
Finally John Howard gets his turn and talks to Jeanette for 4 hours. When he is finished the devil informs him that the cost is 20 cents.
Howard just smiles knowingly, and hands over a $.20 piece. Saddam Hussein Colonel Gadaffi and go ballistic, and ask the devil why Howard got to call Australia for four hours for only 20 cents?
The Devil smiles and replies: “Since Julia Gillard took over, the whole country has gone to hell. It’s only a local call.”
Crikey is increasingly running the risk of being “lumped in” with the inferior ABC, the “Abbott’s” of this world and the Australian gutter press.
Compliments to Peter Ormonde on another thread where he again, with humour, successfully in my mind, overcame his underlying frustrations with the utter ignorance and stupidity of, as he calls them the “troofies”! Well done, keep it up!
In an article in today’s Daily Telegraph, David Penberthy quotes Graham Richardson on Bob Hawke - that Bob could put his hand in a sewer and pull out twenty bucks. Julia has the opposite talent - she can put her hand into a barrel of twenty dollar notes and pull out a piece of…
GeeWizz - “Yes you said that Labor just needs to win back some votes from the Coalition voters. Simple.” My Point was the historic analysis of labor’s primary vote is irrelevant as it is comparing to a time when the Green vote was low, ie Labor was the only “left” party and therefore had to have a high primary vote because they didn’t get the preferences which is not the case now.
“They can’t stop the boats” COnsidering Abbott’s policy is illegal, offensive to the indonesians and not going to be implemented by the Navy this is hardly a big win for the Libs
“they keep jacking up taxes” - which taxes? Come July 1 company a personal income tax rates will come down again, pensions go up, FTB goes up by the end of the year this won’t be a big win for Abbott either
“they keep trying to enforce leftwing ideals on normal hard working Australians…. they hate Australian culture and customs” Complete and utter nonsense”
“WHY would WE vote for them?” Why would we vote for Abbott, what are his policies? how will he fund them?
Geez Bernard, you get paid for this? I could make up better “I hate Gillard” stuff in bed before I got up.
They can’t stop the boats” COnsidering Abbott’s policy is illegal, offensive to the indonesians and not going to be implemented by the Navy this is hardly a big win for the Libs
“they keep jacking up taxes” - which taxes? Come July 1 company a personal income tax rates will come down again, pensions go up, FTB goes up by the end of the year this won’t be a big win for Abbott either
“they keep trying to enforce leftwing ideals on normal hard working Australians…. they hate Australian culture and customs” Complete and utter nonsense”
“WHY would WE vote for them?” Why would we vote for Abbott, what are his policies? how will he fund them?
@ Steve 777
Graham Richardson is right….again
Will Gillard be gone by Easter or during the Olympics so as to reduce media impact?
or will they wait until later in the year, around the slow news silly season.
With Simon Crean speaking up about Rudd today, there must be complete disunity in cabinet.
GeeWizz - “Yes you said that Labor just needs to win back some votes from the Coalition voters. Simple.” My Point was the historic comparison of labor’s primary vote is irrelevant as it is comparing to a time when the Green vote was low, that is to say Labor was the only “left” party and therefore had to have a high primary vote because they didn’t get the preferences which is not the case now.
“Nonetheless, it serves as a potent symbol of everything that is wrong with her government, despite its slow, steady chugging away at reform and its excellent economic management.”
Bernard, WTF are you on about??!! Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?
This one sentence embodies all the contemptible, sensationalist media rubbish that qualifies as “reportage” these days and highlights a major contributor to the government’s present situation.
While you and the rest of the media tossers focus on beating up complete non-stories like the Australia Day kerfuffle, the PM gets on with running the country. And given the mess that the rest of the world is in, she’s doing a damn fine job too. Why not focus on that Bernard?
Why not try some reportage on the total policy void that the Libs represent? Come on, it can’t be that hard.
How about giving people the real story and quit flitting off after the next shiny object the pack is slobbering over.
Australians really don’t understand how good they’ve got it… but if guys like you Bernard keep it up and you manage to get Abbott across the line, they’ll find out very quickly.
Arnold Cheeseman - Very well said!!!!!!
@ Arnold Cheeseman
“Australians really don’t understand how good they’ve got it…”
Its like a football game or a race, where the leader is way out in front and daylight is second. Then Gillard takes over and cause we are so far in front, people dont see how bad she is is doing, but she still looks good cause of the lead she started with.
‘Fraid I’m with Arnold and Jimmy on this one Bernard. Leave the predictions and reading of omens to the Suzanne Blakes. Stick to what has happened not what will.
Unless you’d be a betting man at all?
It isn’t illegal, it was tested multiple times in the High Court by leftie lawyers and they failed every time.
The High Court decision on Malaysia was because the government couldn’t guarantee human right protections in Malaysia. In Nauru, we did the processing with Australian staff, to Australian standards, with Australian level nutrition and Australian level hygein.
If we can’t process illegals in Nauru, we can’t process them in Australia.
According to the Governments own Carbon Tax Calculator a single on more than $50,000 will be worse off.
$50,000 is pretty much chumps change these days and inflation and wage increases means the tax will hit harder and more families over time. PLUS the Tax will start increasing in percentage terms, yet Dillard has not pointed to any new tax cuts or rebates.
It is time for the ‘thinking’ (if that’s not too strong a word) Australian to get up off the floor, onto their feet, and stopped allowing themselves to be held in a permanent state of guilt by a whole lot of people dressed as caterpillars.
Australia Day is a piece of tat to begin with. An echo of the second class, we love Britain, love-a-thon that used to be, God Save the Queen! We know it’s tat and we feel guilty about it. People know QEII is a foreign head-of-state; we feel guilty about that. How can we hold a meaningful Australia day we we lack nearly all the things which should belong to us?
Add the bit of awesome, amateur theatrics aka ‘The Oz-day dust-up’ where the Opposition in the form of Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne who managed to engineer a nasty piece of exploitative trash, before fielding it to Andrew Bolt and his petty, fellow hate-mongers (laughingly referred to as scribes) who, in turn, kicked this ball of s^hit at the Prime Minister.
Now, in the welter of name calling, sheer ineptness, brutish minders, and the bat-eared, sh<it stirrer leader of the opposition-and his man Friday. The one with the corrugated hair-do. The real culprits are forgotten.
The shame, dim-witted shame of unbelievably amateur theatrics. We Australians have many qualities. Unfortunately Class is not one of them.
Australians have many attributes, but class is not one of them.
@ Gee Wizz - you have no idea about how the educated left think - let me educate you- this cohort, including me defected to the Greens a long time ago because of right-wing social policies on refugees (we now have a far more desirable and humane onshore-processing system but only by default - how pathetic), not getting rid of economic and social discrimination by making one simple amendment to the Marriage Act (too gutless), not dealing properly with problem gambling by introducing $1 bet machines or for that matter mandatory pre-commitment (too gutless), continued disinvestment in the tertiary education sector, which is our only hope when mining goes (too short-sighted), bailing out and bank-rolling big industry to the tune of billions (Blue Scope Steel, now the latest) and yet taxing the bejesus out of ordinary wage earners with the GST (which makes the carbon tax look like a walk in the park), contributing to an unfair tax system through its support of the erosion of the progressive tax system and the introduction of a rebate system skewed to upper middle classes whose corruption started under Howard, allowing big business to run roughshod over the environment without adequate compensation to the coffers or compo to affected home-owners (think CSG mining as one example). I could go on, and on..
Gillard’s contributions to education, labor laws, mining tax, recession proofing the economy, introducing a carbon-tax are to be commended for their modesty but she, from the perspective of the left, has a chequered history on social policies for reasons pointed out above. If she was a a truly courageous left wing leader, she would have come out and dismantled mandatory detention and off-shore processing, she would have introduced $1 bets, introduce Rudd’s mining tax, instead of the watered down version, ripped billion dollar subsidies from the fossil fuel industries and hand it over to the renewable energy sector, introduce high speed rail, introduce solar-thermal energy etc, environment, re-introduce free tertiary education to locals.
No, she is not a hand-maiden of the left - and Labor is not Green Light - on the contrary, Gillard is trying to appeal to the right-wing swing voter and failing because these swingers and other die-hards like you don’t like women with broad Australian accents who don’t, otherwise, behave like men or resemble right-wing authoritarian types like Margaret Thatcher.
right to the point Mr Keane
and oh so correct
Gilard has been cactus for months now and many of us are now praying that they will just pull the plug and let her go.
Nothing will save her Prime Ministership, nothing.
@ GocomSys
Yes the ABC is inferior, filled with Greens who only give their side of the argument.
Now it seems the ABC journalist who interviewed Abbott in front of the Opera House on Australia, received the ‘setup question’ from Gillard’s media people. The ABC is investigating or will be
Hey Suzanne can I have a link for that.
The fellas(Labor supporters) over at the Poll Bludger were rubbing themselves into a lather that it was a setup by Abbott and a News Limited Journalist.
This stuff is gold…
Ah Sooz again you are Troofie are a decent length and a half in front of the pack Grand Plan-wise. Your near psychic insights will come to the ears of the World Politburo.
So obviously you have spotted that Abbott, Tony ( the target) was set-up by one of our deep plants… a journalist trained since childhood by our mind and mouth control specialist to plant sinister questions and even worse - sinister answers - to her inquiries. My goodness we are clever aren’t we? Satanic really.
Call the Police! Call the Church! Call the Church Police!
And incidentally when did we decide that god just “didn’t mean” Leviticus. Never did I guess.
Bring back Leviticus. You know we have the stones!
Ms Blake - what - ‘greens’ like Chris Berg of the IPA, a regular on the Drum? Gerard Henderson and Pier Akerman, regular guests on Insiders. Michael Duffy on Counterpoint?
Frankly I’m astounded that anybody could come to the defence of the current government or opposition.
Anybody who has been around a while must consider the government as the most incompetent bunch of immature bullies since the likes of Reith and Richardson. No interest in creating policies for the ordinary person only looking after childish pipedreams.
Then we have the parasitic minor parties who live off the taxpapayers purse professing all sorts of new age progressive ? policies that have been debated since Socrates.
Finally the bunch of has-beens called the opposition that also haven’t earned a genuine pay packet in years.
What a feeble state this country is in when we have a choice between Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard. I’m not a betting man but I would have given 100 to 1 on this only a few years ago.
Let’s hope they all self destruct before the next election and take all their hangers on with them. Hello!!! Any real people out there want to run a country??
Hey Comrade Pete,
Did you read in todays papers that Simon Crean is publically coming out and saying Rudd can’t be PM again.
There is clearly a power struggle going on behind the scenes in the party right now otherwise he wouldn’t have come out and publically said that.
What were you betting on Rudd not becoming PM again in the next few weeks? Get the cheque book ready mate.
I have a question or two for Jimmy, Peter Ormonde and the other lefties?
Firstly, you loyalty to Gillard is commendable.
1. Do you think Gillard will be ALP leader at the next federal Election?
2. If so, can she win an absolute majority?
@ Geewizz
Heard it on News last evening. Have not had time to look at papers today
All you Gillard apologists should remember a few things.
Gillard was right behind Rudd as the Deputy PM always smiling and nodding in the background pledging loyalty right up until his execution.
Gillard stated that she had a better chance of being “full forward for the “Doggies” than she had of being prime minister, and she had no aspirations in that regard. Meanwhile she was sharpening the regicidal knife along with “Brutus” Swan.
Gillard did not have to to compromise her principles for power but of course she did. rolling over on her back for Bob Brown and the “Three Amigos” after promising not to introduce a carbon tax on the life of a government led by her
Gillard knifed Wilkie in the back after Slippery Pete’s change of heart, turning his back on his own party for pecuniary gain
Gillard wilfully participated in the destruction of Howard’s “Pacific Solution”by removal of temporary protection visas and putting out the welcome mat for people smugglers, then being the architect of the harebrained schemes in relation to Timor and the Malaysia solution.
Gillard as education Minister presided over profligate waste in the BER ( Builders Early Retirement) when billions were wasted on unnecessary school improvements ( a school hall in every electorate regardless of need or justification)
These are just a few things that come to mind. As for repression proofing the economy Gillard is part of the cabal that has spent nearly $200 billion of future tax revenue (borrowings to the uninitiated) for little visible gain, on the same basis that Italy and Greece have squandered their children’s heritage for current political gain. Pink batts and school halls while the country is desperate for infrastructure spending, but of course infrastructure spending is not “sexy” in terms of vote buying.
Gillard is dead in the water, but Labor is effectively leaderless because nobody wants to take up the poisoned chalice for the inevitable loss of the next election.
Meanwhile we are forced to endure the “Mad Monk” as Leader of the Opposition because “Blind Freddy” could be the next Coalition PM with such a pathetic excuse as Gillard leading Labor.
In the words of Xavier Herbert “Poor Fellow My Country”.
@ Whistleblower
Yes, correct. Jack The Ripper could win against Gillard. Instead we have Jill The Ripper. Cold calculated slayer of Rudd and anything else in her path.
I wonder what she will do next? Legel career? back bench, token ministry and then shadow portfolio?
Suzanne,
(1) Probably. 98% … there’s always a low flying bus. She also could get an attack of commonsense, start an orchard somewhere and give us the politics we deserve.
(2) Possibly. Will be determined by preferences in a very generous handful of seats.
Oooops Troofie … you’ve inadvertently asked Sooz for a link or a reference for one of her breathless “facts” (sort of thing) (ish). Good luck with that.
Gillard is at the top of an enormous political pile of garbage. Kim Sattler is I expect a Labor Party member. So why would Labor be waiting till she fronts the Unions ACT executive council meeting next month? her first job would be to convince Labor she did not bring the labor party into disrepute on Australia Day. Edward James
Geewizz - Even though there is a lack of clarity around the Nauru issue since the High Court ruling I was referring to “turning the boats around” as being illegal, again if you read the whole sentence you may of got that point.
Not even the oppostion have thrown up a figure of $50k (i think they were using about $60k) but exactly how much worse off will they be? And how about a family earning $100k? Or A childless couple earning $80k? Or a pensioner? What percentage of the population will be worse off?
“PLUS the Tax will start increasing in percentage terms, yet Dillard has not pointed to any new tax cuts or rebates.” Really? How much & when? After all it goes to a market based system in 2015 so how do you know it will go up? And if the price goes up but emmissions are reduced how does that effect the issue?
And since when are wages increases a bad thing?
GeeWhizz- I also note you did not address what Abbott’s policies are or how he will fund them!!
Edward James, I think you’ll find ( I could be wrong) that Kim is not a member of the ALP. She may have joined but for many years kept a distinct distance between herself and the ALP.
Still maybe you know something I don’t but as a tip to even handedness, why make such an accusation (if being called a member of one of Australia’s two major political organisations is an accusation) without a shred, a scintilla, an ounce of evidence or knowledge?
@SBH
Guilt by association perhaps. If Kim Sattler was keeping her distance from the ALP why was she an avowed admirer of that absolute disaster Joan Kirner, and why was she greasing up to Julia on her Facebook page in the photo op recently published with the “DearLeader”. Also it is unlikely that anybody with a senior union position affiliated with the ACTU she is not a party member.
Actually Mr Blower, I just heard somewhere that Andrew Denton has a whole video of the RIOT… and the clip clearly shows a woman looking a lot like Kim Sattler - or at least her arm - atop a small hillock, hurling a blue strap-on at a huddle of terrified wallopers.
Yes, guilt by association - good enough for me! That’s how conspiracies work after all … people associating. Sinister stuff this. But then it also means there’s more to throw rocks at.
Bernard, your continued propping up of the “excellent economic management” of this government really grates on me. Let’s look at the facts - yes, the Australian economy has done much much better than any other OECD country over the last 4 years. But why? Three main reasons - (1) the Chinese economy, our biggest export economy has remained strong, (2) the Labor govt inherited a war chest from their predecessors. While the rest of the OECD was/is laden in government debt, the Australian government came into the 2008 crisis with no net debt. This gave the Australian government much more latitude than any other OECD country in their crisis response, and (3) the Australian housing bubble has still not burst, unlike everywhere else in the world. The present government can take no credit for (1) or (2). On (3), maybe they can take some credit; perhaps the misdirected stimulus package succeeded in prolonging the housing bubble. But is the continuation of unsustainable house prices really a good thing for the long term?
And finally let me point out the problem with looking at the economic growth figures superficially. Consider another example, climate statistics. The rainfall in Queensland over the last 10 years has been exactly average. But this of course ignores the fact that we had 9 years of drought followed by one year of extreme floods. Similarly if you take the economic growth figures at face value, it ignores the fact that they are massively skewed. The high Australian dollar is causing massive stress to all the non-mining trade exposed industries. You may argue this is a “structural adjustment”. But can we really afford every other industry go to waste? Does it make sense for Australia to become a country where less than 10% are employed in a productive industry and the other 90% pour cafe lattes for each other? Can we rely on the mining boom to continue forever? These other industries have taken many decades to build up. If we put all our eggs in one basket what happens if/when the mining boom comes to an end?
Robert Gottliebsen wrote an excellent piece on these issues recently -
“The Aussie dollar goes for gold”:
businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/hedge-funds-Australian-dollar-gold-traders-US-curr-pd20120125-QTRMK?OpenDocument&emcontent_Gottliebsen
Following on from my request to Gee Whiz on Abbott’s policies and funding today at his press conference he reiterated his commitment to his expensive and poorly targted Parental care scheme and the tax cuts assocatiated with the carbon tax and MRRT and stated “aspirations” of bringing dental care into medicare funding and the national disability insurance scheme.
So given by their own costings the Libs have to find about $70b and the disability shceme comes in at about $20b how can people really believe he can achieve all this and get the budget back into surplus faster and by more?
@ Suzanne Blake
“Its like a football game or a race, where the leader is way out in front and daylight is second. Then Gillard takes over and cause we are so far in front, people dont see how bad she is is doing, but she still looks good cause of the lead she started with.”
What the hell would you know??!! About anything??
Please keep you drivel to yourself.
Whistleblower - guilt by association? Really? That’s how you’d like things run now? Leaving aside the typical right-wing tactic of making an unsupportable accusation (even if the accusation is a) false and b) contains no element of wrong doing) then when caught out diving and jinking like Changa to come back around to insisting on guilt by some other path thereby refusing to deal with the lack of substance in the original ‘accusation’ you really think Guilt by association is reasonable and productive way to judge people? Be careful what you wish for.
Your view that all senior union leaders must be ALP members just shows your ignorance of the union movement - a movement of millions of people that harbours many views about the ALP.
Why Kirner and Gillard? well not hard really to work out, even for the idiot spawn of the aristocracy and their running dogs . Kim is a woman, of a left persuaision. Joan Kirner as a founder of Emily’s list is a gigantic figure in feminist politics of this country and you don’t need to be an ALP member to love her. Gillard, as our first female Prime Minister is also someone to look up to and admire just because she got there at all.
But to come back to my question, does edward james have any knowledge or like you, blakey, geewizz and truthie is he just making sh*t up?
Now if you want to move on from idiotic simplistic jingo-ism please let’s.
for those south of the border Changa = Graham Langlands, a flawed human being but the best full back of all time. Google it you’ll be a better person
The funny thing about your comments was she was actually at the protest/riot.
But I’ve got a question for you Comrade Pete.
When Hodges decided to “seek comment” about Tony Abbotts comments earlier in the day, why was the ACT Unions head number 2 on his call list?
Think about that for a moment. He’s not calling an Aboriginal advocate, he’s not calling a Aboriginal elder…. no… he called a head of a Union for the deed.
Does Labor always get Union Heavies to do their dirty work?
For sanity’s sake why doesn’t Crikey rename the comments sections the Free Range Inanity Pages featuring in order of Inanity, Suzanne Blake,Geewhiz and a conga line of like drongo’s,jeezus wept a perfectly good Media site with excellent articles relegated to rs end of objective Media by the Sons and Daughters of Inanity run riot,I’m all for freedom of expression however some have jumped the fence of rationality and are off the known planet.
y tha F do they keep moderating me? My name must trigger the filter. blahblahblah
@Blower - so, lies are ok when it comes to the inveterate lies of the Howard regime (big ones at that over the course of an entire decade) but not ok when it comes to one from JG? Hypocritical complaint don’t you think?
So, a backstab is ok from Abbott re Turnbull, but not ok from the blokes who did Rudd and told JG to step into the breach? Hypocritical complaint don’t you think?
So, millions and/or billions spent on subsidising big business every single year is ok but not when it comes to spending a fraction of that money on steering a country out of recession and spending it on school infrastructure/pink batts/cash handouts that benefited jobs, small business, schools, and the punter alike? Hypocritical complaint don’t you think? And btw, I’m really annoyed by this ridiculous assertion re BER waste, which is Ltd News propaganda - 4% waste was recorded, and most of it in NSW whose Ed Department executed the program stupidly, so please refrain from banging on about this, will you.
And, finally, if you are so worried about the ‘Blood nut’ or ‘Mad Monk’, then put your money where your mouth is and come to this side of the fence and vote Green who is the only party with detailed, fully costed, socially progressive policies.
@Chess C - yes, the ALP technically inherited no govt debt but it inherited structural debt as a result of Peter Costello’s unsustainable tax changes to the superannuation system, which again benefits the rich - now that’s going to result in a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, from the young to the old - you want to worry about theft from future generations, then ponder that one.
And as for blowing money, well the ALP will be remembered for doing it the right way to keep the economy afloat and keeping people in jobs, even if, quelle horreur, there was 4% wastage on BER. The Libs were on record for wanting to blow the same kind of money on tax cuts - result?- the rich would have had extra in the bank and the country would have been in recession. So, much for economic management.
@SB - since when has the ABC been stacked with Greens!? Name one person on the ABC Board who is a Green supporter? On the other hand, I can think of a few tories, including Janet Albrechtsen who sits on the Board. News 24 Breakfast Show - hardly would call Virginia Trioli a Green. Who on the Drum, the 7.30 report?
Brian62 it was only a few days ago the Labor supporters were calling us tinfoil kooks for claiming the riot was a setup by the PM’s department.
Then we find out the PM’s media stuntsman Hodges resigned.
Then we found out the head of the ACT Unions was involved.
Then we learn that Gillard said she hadn’t been told about Hodges until the day after the riots, but then we discover that Hodges told the PM’s department in the afternoon of the same day.
This story has a long way to run yet. The Tinfoil kooks here are the ones who think there is nothing nasty going on behind the scenes.
Apollo- I have found if you remove any word with l.i or l.y in them your posts will get through, for some reason the moderator is so concerned about the L word they forgot that words like re.ly or even Historicall.y etc are inoffensive
Gee Whiz - Why is it that you spend so much of you time on the froth and bubble of little consequence but no time on issues of policy?
Excellent points Mr Chess.
It’s about time we started having a serious think about “what good economic management” actually might mean. More GDP, bigger holes, clogged streets, greater inequality…
More of the same presumably - as much of the same as the economy can pump out. And this of course is how “everyone” from the markets to the punter looking for a job regard the merits of economic management. Keep interest rates low, unemployment “manageable” (erk), the dollar “balanced”, bring in the sacred surplus for sacrifice.
An apt metaphor: These are short term immediate circumstances - a sort of economic tactics. Gillard Rudd Henry et al were very very good at this I think. That stimulus package did a beaut job. Precision timing. Like surfin’.
But there’s more to it than that - as you point out. It’s about a medium to long term view for the economy … of where one wants the place to be in 10 or 15 years… an economic strategy. Some sort of rubbery plan.
And at the moment we seem hell bent on following the economic model of Nauru. And the Chinese importers - the world’s factory - will happily help out.
When we talk about a large scale reduction in fossil fuel use - what might such an economy look like - what can we get good at, how do we create the conditions in which the employment of the future can flourish, but also - how many miles of mcmansion suburbs, of astroturfed malls and a kentuckyfried landscape.
More to it than just reacting - even anticipating. The stuff that counts.
I know it’s all very exciting this “beautiful set of numbers stuff” … but there’s gotta be more to it than just being better at managing capitalism than the direct representatives of the local squattocracy. Or is that all there is nowadays? Government by market polling - every day, every hour.
Abbott has today proposed tax cuts if he becomes Prime Minister.
So there we go, some Liberal policies right there for the person that was asking
OOh look … something shiny!
Were my local trout so dumb.
Geewizz - I was the person who asked and I also was the person who an hour ago commented on Abbott’s announcements today, the issue is they aren’t policies because he has no way of paying for them, where is the $70b coming from?
Geewhiz well may it be that you seek engagement, sadly I find it does neither parties soul any good to engage in debate with people of closed minds who are rationally challenged,may your god of choice help you.
Comrade Pete do you know who is best and most effecient at spending your own money?
I’ll give you a clue… it isn’t the government.
The BIGGEST impact a government can make in ones life is to give them a tax cut, I firmly believe this. More money in ones pocket means their quality of life improves, it means stress is reduced, it means they can pay their bills, it means they can buy grocieries that week.
I know you think thats just something to laugh at… but I think it’s extremely important.
“OPPOSITION Leader Tony Abbott says to be able to pay for tax cuts the budget would need to be in a “vastly better position” than it is now. “
“His concession that disability insurance and dental care, and possibly also personal tax cuts, cannot be implemented until the budget is back in the black certainly bodes well in that regard.”
Geewhizz these two quotes are from the Herald Sun & SMH, so how is Abbott announcing tax cuts? And I’ll ask again how are they to be funded?
“The BIGGEST impact a government can make in ones life is to give them a tax cut” One party has fully funded and quantified personal & corporate tax cuts as their policy the other doesn’t and yet you support the other? Doesn’t make much sense!
“Comrade Pete do you know who is best and most effecient at spending your own money?
I’ll give you a clue… it isn’t the government.”
Yep. Next time I we’re looking for a quick injection of stimulus into the economy to avert a GFC we’ll all be popping over to your place Troofie.
Really folks, when you look at the ideas of these local Tea Party types I’m constantly tempted to let them have what they are squealing for.
How much university, book learnin’ and practical knowledge can dent their “common sense” of household budgets and doing the week’s shopping and leaving something for the kiddies… all the mythologies, fairy tales and simple self-serving wisdom. As if this is what Governments do, just spend your money.
Let’s give em the dog eat dog world they’re slavering for. Let’s give ‘em Economic Somalia. Hockeynomics? More RBA oar-sticking, more nanny state welfare for the banks - not bloody likely! Cold steel - tax cuts for us - just cuts for you. But not for Roads no not for roads. Or hospitals. Promise. (non-core).
But look Troofie this sort of “promise” is attractive to people who can only understand really simple stuff like getting more money for a bigger plasma. As if that’s what gives us a good life. To people who think Tony Abbott believes in or respects anything at all.
It’s a broad church this Coalition of the Confused that traipses around after the Beloved and Glorious (almost but not quite yet) Leader Tony Abbott…. everything from neocon economic “Darwinists”(sorry Chuck) through to bleeding heart wet nanny state regulators like Joe Hockey. Trotsky we call him.
I’m going to enjoy watching this stuff unravel as an election campaign forces a few choices. Collectivise agriculture Joe. Barnaby and Bob Katter might go fer that.
Peter - On a serous policy note I think Abbott having an “aspirational” dental care program should be a trigger for the govt to go the whole hog and bring one in largely paid for by a small increase in the medicare levy, especially as the Flood levy is unwinding and most people will not even notice the difference. Any thoughts?
G’day Jimmy,
Strewth, don’t ever ask me my thoughts on anything…. can’t shut me up.
There was a bit of work done around this sort of thing by some economists and the like in the late 1980s in Canberra. Looked pretty feasible then. Lower admin costs and an established (and now improved) payment system would probably make it even more favorable now. Can’t remember the numbers - it was about 0.5% increase from memory. Might be able to pull the stuff out of some box somewhere if you’re interested.
Only major problem was the essentially unregulated nature of dentistry and dental services. That and an estimated unmet demand for basic care the size of Everest that would see a significant initial drain on the system. There was also a fair bit of concern that without some sort of standardisation and scrutiny of the dental professional and professionalism there would be a stampede on unnecessary procedures. I am hoping my dentist isn’t a Crikey reader.
But I would also suspect that now - 20 years on - the level of dental health among the poor, the ill and so forth would present a huge level of initial demand. The problem doesn’t go away.
None of those concerns would suggest enough reason not to start building the conditions where a simple integration into medicare is feasible. Makes too much sense. And it’s too important to leave for another 20 years. But it would need some significant jiggling and negotiating I’d reckon. Would need the enthusiastic support of the Health Industry as a whole.
But sadly of course it would be “political suicide” for Gillard or any other government to suggest such a thing in the current climate of political opportunism. Tax increase! Tax hike! More nanny state. Better just to tell everyone to floss.
I’m sure it wouldn’t cost nearly as much as bailing out the banks, or holden, or Bluescope Steel, or BHP….
There, you asked.
@ Jimmy & Comrade Ormonde
Did you see the 730 Report. Kathy Jackson says suspects Federal Labor interference in the Thompson Fair Work investigation and has called for an inquiry.
She is releasing more details on irregularities this week.
Gripping.
MM at the Press Club _ “Lower taxes AND more services!” Wot’s not to luv ‘bout dat?
Meanwhile, I have a couple of bridges & magic ponies to sell.
Starts here in QLD in 15 mins, i will be tuning in
SBH Gillard is at the top of an enormous pile of political garbage. Kim Sattler is I expect a Labor Party member. As you have said SBH you could be wrong. There are allegations out about the Prime Ministers office being the source of lies in relation to who knew what about Australia Day, But an inquiry in a month pft. With luck there will be another Labor Party crisis before then. Let me leave you and other readers in no doubt SBH, Being a member of the two parties not much preferred, is an accusation when it is coming from me ! Edward James http://bit.ly/EJ_PNewsAds
@ Jimmy & Comrade Ormonde
Did you see Simon Crean said today that Rudd was NOT A TEAM PLAYER.
Why the hell is he a Minister then and Foreign Affairs, and important portfolio?
Answer that one
An unfortunate reprise by Gillard “the standard line that “you can’t second guess the security personnel”” of Bumbler Beazley when he said of Iraqi WMD “I always believe whatever the security forces tell me”.
Which, too late, led to his dumping for Krudd. Which begat Gillard. And then Armageddon.
Sooz,
Kevin can play all over the world now - all by himself… preferably elsewhere much of the time. He’s a clever lad and he will probably make some useful contributions on the world stage. Gareth Evans did. Although they probably just all gave in so they could go home.
The focus of this article should have been on the performance of our mediocre press.
Whilst the media continues to distort the tent embassy protest, the behaviour of the Australian MSM again must be under scrutiny. It’s another media debacle!
A dismal performance all round, no exceptions as far as I can see.
It’s sooooooooo much easer for lazy journalists to dump on the government and revive leadership speculations. Negativity and hype sells! Profits up?
Suzanne Blake here is the direct quote from Simon Crean:
Labor is apparantly full of Prima Donna’s…
@ Geewizz
Unbelievable show of disunity in Labor.
Crean actually printed out his radio interviw and gave it to journalists and every Labor MP.
WHY?
This incompetent Labor Government is imploding. Gillard looked very unwell and white today at her interview at the stock exchange.
Lastly the poll numbers are all PRIOR to Labor inciting Australia Day race riots….
@ Pete
“Really folks, when you look at the ideas of these local Tea Party types I’m constantly tempted to let them have what they are squealing for.”
The right wing already got what they wanted in the US for 8 years under Bush, and look what they did… they blew up the world.
No sense in repeating that experiment here. Instead, we should count our blessings that we missed the brunt of the shitstorm, and NEVER let these retards near the steering wheel again.
Oh please…. the Right in Australia is Left of the *DEMOCRAT* Party, let alone the Republicans.
Obama has problems getting Democrats to agree on Tax increases on the Rich…. and we are talking multibillionaire rich… not your Gold Lotto level rich.
The problem with lefties in this country is that they have no idea that a lot of their ideas as much as they would be fantastic to succeed just don’t pass the commonsense test. Like the boatpeople policy… loosen the policy and you thought the flood of boats wouldn’t come. How dumb was that? Meanwhile the people in the camps miss out so that cashed up queue jumpers who have never spent a day in a real refugee camp steal their spots.
Troofie,
This “flood of boats” this is the same sort of “flood of boats” that saw us having a “race riot” last week in your imaginings, yes? Pills mate, pills and foil. And a lot less onanistic self-pleasuring. Try and get out more. Walk to the car at least.
You seem to the the problem is a “flood of boats” rather than the fact that the world is full of desperate people. Funny way to look at the world isn’t it?… rather selfish.
Unfortunately, for Labor, and the country, under the present maladministration, jealousy, the cult of personality and self-interest has been too prominent a criteria for discarding any countenance of capable potential leaders, and “internecine wars” too long the preferred “bored game”. “The country” has been shuffled back into the pack.
They’re carrying on more like a pack of prima donnas pulling together - but after lights-out! When they should be pulling together in the socially acceptable way!
Which of course leaves the door open for Abbott to take over Kirribilli House – but “better him than someone from the wrong faction, who doesn’t recognise my talents”?
Venise Alstergren your comments are disgraceful.
“Australia Day is a piece of tat ;An echo of the second class;Australians have many attributes, but class is not one of them.”
Now that is just UnAustralian, your a condesending snob and obviously not a real aussie on the inside.
I don’t know nor care what world you live in but Australia Day for most of us is a time for us to enjoy away from work, to spend with our friends and or family and celebrate what we love about this great country of ours be it cricket or the beach or bush or enven paying homage to the many wonderful people who are given awards for community service. We sit down together and share food and drink, some in parks, some on the beach, some in restaurants. It is a day of happiness and we do not sit about bitching about the queen, captain cook or any other political trash talk.
Maybe Gillards staff should have been reminded of this and not worked to use the day to play politics. It backfired and they will pay.
@ klewso
Have there ever been a Federal Government in Australia that has had so much:
1. Back stabbing
2. Disunity
3. Senior figures publicly humiliating other senior figures?
Federal Labor is becoming like NSW Labor and we all know what happened there.
The Crean knife into Rudd yesterday was breathtaking and motivated.
Labor top to bottom Local State and Federal is damaged by its members and supporters it needs the clearing of dead wood politicians and hangers on to follow the lead of NSW. Labor itself won’t do it that is obvious, many of them still think Rudd tainted by Heiner and Shreddergate is fit to represent. So it falls to the long suffering electorates. Peoples need to exercise their own votes by numbering boxes below the line and directing their own preferences making certain to put Labor and their political buddies last. Liberal National just happens to be the best tool to start the change, by sweeping as many Labor Party members from our parliaments and out into the street, as the first step toward a return to representative government which is engaged with and puts constituents before the party. Edward James
On Kathy Jackson saying last night she suspects Gillard Government is slowing the Fair Work HSU investigation.
If Thompson and others were innocent, don’t you think Fair Work would have released their report a few YEARS ago?
Thomson Sooz…. get the lynchees name right at least.
But you’re right … Justice delayed is justice denied as they say.
So let’s all just duck around to the Thomsons’ place and start throwing rocks.
Deeply ugly outlook. The braying of the mob.
A caller on 2GB this morning around 8 45, pointed out IF Craig Thomson were innocent it would not have taken so many years! When will the taxman shown an interest in tax returns connected to these taxpayers and corporations? Edward James
Yes we must never miss an opportunity to take the P iss out of Labor’s little drummer boy Craig Thomson. He is after all iconic of what Labor is all about. Standing there defying constituents. Edward James
Peter Ormonde - Thanks for the response, good to actually discuss something of worth. As for it being “political suicide” I disagree, I think there would be overwhelming support for it and would provide a massive point of difference from a Liberal party that is going to have to find $70b in savings leading up to the election.
It probably would have to be phased in, maybe a larger “Gap” payment than under normal medicare which would reduce the amount of medicare levy increase.
Gee Wizz - Still no comment from you on how Abbott’s comments are actually a tax policy or how he will pay for any of his (for want of a better word) “policies”?
Is it that you lack the intellect to discuss anything more than the urgings of the shock jocks ans murdo.ch press?
Jimmy,
Sadly the rhetoric - the mind-set in Canberra - is so terrified of anything that could be contrived into looking like a tax increase that they run a mile. Look at the “trouble” the government is in with the media over the carbon price. And that’s not even a tax.
But I agree that such an investment will produce public health outcomes far in excess of the political cost. And these benefits will flow through the system. Bad teeth make people sick. So the benefits are synergistic and generalised.
It would take a full term at least 3 or 5 years to get things set up properly I’d reckon - not so much for the technicalities - that’s pretty straightforward - but the professional standards and regulatory issues and the formation of an enthusiastic professional consensus will take some time I suspect.
Could be wrong. But it’s a deeply factional neck of the woods in these caring professions.
Something to work on.
@ Peter Ormonde. I think it is great we don’t have to be delayed while the lumbering “law” considerers guilt or innocence sometimes for years. As voters we may involve ourselves in accessing Craig Thomsons performance as a politician. ( remembering to take the P) We may consider his silence when so many questions have been asked of him. We may wonder about his personal values and how those values translate into his actions as a senior member of the HSU and later as a Member of the Labor Party in the Federal seat of Dobell. We understand just as any politician would understand. The peoples court of public opinion is not a law court with all its rules and appeals. Our judgements are based on our perceptions discussed in public forums such as this and handed down at the ballot box. The separation of powers and how we may use them here is just wonderfu!l Edward James
Peter - the 3 to 5 years would probably suit perfectly, announce now that you are going to do it, the tax increase won’t come for a couple of years but we will start the work on “professional standards and regulatory issues” immediately.
The greens policy is quoted as costing $5b a year, the flood levy is expected to raise $1.8b even if they wanted to move more immediately they could get half the money they need with a little bit of tinkering and minimal hip pocket pain. If they gradually moved from what we have now to the full policy the other half could be obtained through other savings or increased revenue as the world economy improves.
After all the polls have them out at the next election they may as well roll the dice and at least ensure if they do go out the leave the best legacy they can and a carbon price, MRRT paid parental leave, BER (which according to recent polls is very popular) and dental care (amongst other things) stack up pretty well.
@ Jimmy
Jimmy, lets go into business. Your rose coloured glasses and blinkers will be an online sensation. We will clean up.
I only want 5%, it was your idea, you can have the rest?
How does it sound?
Chairman Ormonde can help in marketing
you can promote all the propaganda that you like guys but you can not alter facts.
It is a CARBON TAX
.
even the aph web states it is a CARBON TAX…. A carbon tax is a tax on energy sources which emit carbon dioxide. It is a pollution tax, which some economists favour because they tax a ‘bad’ rather than a ‘good’ (such as income).
“A federal government source has contradicted Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s statement that a former staffer acted alone when he passed on information to a third party that led to a security scare at an Australia Day event, an indigenous newspaper says.
The National Indigenous Times (NIT) reported on Wednesday that an unnamed source, described as holding a “senior position within government bureaucracy”, had told it a number of people within Ms Gillard’s office knew beforehand the “leak” was going to happen.”
Someone’s going in for the kill now on Gillard with this devastating leak. Who’s behind it? Rudd? Someone else? The challenge is on, that’s for sure. This is the end of Gillard. And a spectacular end. Massive! Bigger than Watergate!
Lisacrago - name one tax in which you receive a tradeable asset in return for paying it? And even if you are right that the fixed price period is a “tax” is it still a tax when the price is set by the market?
But really what is in a name?
Jimmy, there is a very big difference re trading carbon credits/offsets and the proposed workings of this current carbon tax.
The GST is also a tax ‘set by the market’, does that mean it is not a tax.
When it comes to the politics of taxation names are very relevant. Ask any fed pollie.
Lisacrago- I do’t want to go to far into this because essentially I don’t care what name is attributed to the policy quite frankly but to say the GST is “set by the market” because it is a set percentage of the sales price and the carbon price is “set by the market” because the market determines how much a permit is worth are the same thing is misguided to say the least.
And yes in politics the nam might be important (ask Tony “no new taxes just a small levy” Abbott) but it is the policy that matters to me not what it is called.
Didinya know? “Someone else didit!”
They snuck into Craig Thompsons room while he was sleeping, took his wallet with his credit card and drivers license and went to the Asian Hand Shandies Pty Ltd and forged his signature. Oh yes and I forgot… they also got their hands on his mobile phone days before hand to book in the appointment.
They then managed to sneak it all back into his pockets while he was sleeping all without him knowing a thing. They did this multiple times on multiple ocassions. They also did this over a several year period… yet Craig “Tommo” Thompson never looked at his credit card statement in any point of time during this period.
And to make matters worse, these people taking his credit card, forging his signatures and using his mobile phone also took out in excess of $100,000 in cash from the credit card account and no one noticed a thing!
Gee, what a coincidence…. Lets leave poor old Craig “Tommo” Thomspon alone, he’s the real victim here.
Geewizz - Still unable to get your head around any issue of substance? You prefer to wallow in the shallow end of “scandal” rather than debate policy?
Geewizz Don’t forget to keep taking the P(iss) out of Craig Thomson the Labor Party Icon and member for Dobell. Because the majority of us know there will be no hope of any honest or worthwhile policy debate so long as liars and their supporters hold sway over our Parliamentary processes! Edward James
Just as a matter of interest are there any crikey readers who can name those people or perhaps one plaster gnome responsible and actually being paid for conducting the three years Fair Work Australia investigation (uckabout) into Craig Thomson no P (iss) use of a HSU credit card. Edward James
LISACRAGO: Thank you for proving, absolutely, my hypothesis. “”Now that is just UnAustralian, your a condesending snob and obviously not a real aussie on the inside.
I don’t know nor care what world you live in but Australia Day for most of us is a time for us to enjoy away from work, to spend with our friends and or family and celebrate what we love about this great country of ours be it cricket or the beach or bush or enven paying homage to the many wonderful people who are given……”“
Yes Lisa? All that patriotic mumbo jumbo of yours is easily said in three words. A Public Holiday. BTW condescending is the way it’s spelled.
Haven’t you heard the well-known saying, “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”?
The only thing you got right was that I wasn’t a real Aussie. I am, in fact, an Australian. I was even born here. How about that?
@venise
I don’t think Lisa Crago was saying you’re not an Australian citizen I think she was saying that you are not an “Aussie”which is more of a behavioural descriptions rather than the colour of one’s passport.
Lisa was probably expressing what the vast majority of Australians think about Australia Day, and not some opportunity for a political confrontation for a corrupt Prime Minister to try and salvage some brownie points.
May I also remind you of the old saying that “sarcasm is the lowest form of wit” and that patriotism is probably the reason we are not speaking Japanese or German. Pride in one’s country and what the majority of its citizens stands for is something to be admired and not reviled.
SuzTroofieWiz, you should take a cue from dear leader Abbott and avoid confronting people who have a brain and the temerity to use it.
Mr Blower,
What on earth do you think old Sam Johnson might have meant when he talked about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel?
If this patriotism is such an unquestionably Good Thing, why does it get such a bad rap?
WHISTLEBLOWER: I scarcely think I need any instruction from the person who is the second stupidest commentator that Crikey has. Or indeed, has ever had.
PETER O: Ha! Exactly.
Love your no ‘B ’ avatar
PETER O: Ha! Exactly.
Love your no ‘B S’ avatar.
@Peter Ormonde
I refer to your sincere question in relation to Samuel Johnson’s well-known statement: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
I understand that this was a reference to the misuse of patriotism by scoundrels, and not a presumption that a patriot is a scoundrel.
He stated that a true “patriot is necessarily and invariably a lover of the people”, but individuals claiming this attribute “may sometimes deceive us.”
In simple terms I believe he meant that one needs to look at the motivation of the individual expressing patriotism, and that patriotism expressed is not necessarily sincere, and that an insincere reference to patriotism is the act of a scoundrel.
I hope this clarifies the matter for you.
@ Edward James
“Just as a matter of interest are there any crikey readers who can name those people or perhaps one plaster gnome responsible and actually being paid for conducting the three years Fair Work Australia investigation (uckabout) into Craig Thomson no P (iss) use of a HSU credit card. Edward James”
Yes
Mr Ewe Non & Mr Co Ruption and Ms Mokes Crean
Failing that Jimmy, Comrade Ormonde, Liz 45, Geocom, Gococsys. take your pick
@venise alstergren
In making the reference that in your opinion that I am the “second stupidest commentator that Crikey has”, or “indeed, has ever had”, can I assume that that you have reserved the number one spot for yourself?
WHISTLEBLOWER: Your assumptions are just as stupid as what you would laughingly refer to as your thoughts. Hahahaha. Nooo, sorry to disappoint, and all that.
I was reserving the number one slot for one of your aliases.
@Venise Alstergren
The febrile ramblings of a deluded mind, as usual. Assertions without evidential substantiation.
Try addressing the issues rather than engaging in ad hominem attacks or would that be too difficult for you?
Mr Blower,
So according to your understanding of Doc Johnson, we should only worry about some patriots - the scroundrelly ones.
Wonder why he talked about patriotism as THE refuge not A refuge… The refuge.
So how do we spot a scoundrel patriot? What gives them away? Why do they hide in patriotism and national pride?
Former Communist Party of Australia Environment Spokesperson Peter Ormonde,
You should have looked up patriot in Wikipedia while you were learning about Craig Thompson.
Despite Johnson, a patriot is understood to be a person who loves their country and is devoted to its welfare. Now tell me, how does one be a good Communist like yourself without being a patriot?
Thomson.
Oh so you would be one of those “honest patriots” then…. excellent….I’ve always wanted to meet one.
Tell me, how would we distinguish between what you say and what one of Doc Johnson’s scoundrels might be spouting?
As to the last question … first get the tense right … second it’s about what sort of country one believes is worth being proud of. I take no pride in Barnaby Joyce for example. Or Alan Jones. Or overreacting, undertrained, undisciplined, frightened coppers.
Peter O, Are you really a Labor supporter as SB implies? I hope not since you seem to have the values, knowledge and common sense to have given them up as just another status qou party with no particular moral compass to guide them.
More political invective from Suzanne paid direct out of Liberal coffers
@ Esteemed Comrade Ormonde (*)
I take no pride in our first female Prime Minister, who has demonstrated to children that ly ing is the way to go. They all see it and ask about it. It is talked about in class.
Anyway, I thought all communists has to respect the Police? for fear of being sent to the Gulag or Salt Mine?
(*) Statement by Peter Ormonde and Paul Shanley, Communist Party of Australia, Ecology Action Group. Newcastle Morning Herald, 1978 April 20
You can’t spell peculation, prevarication, prostitution or plagiarism without a p. Just answer the damn question, comrade. How could communism work unless everyone loved their country and was devoted to its welfare?
Tovarich Blake,
Given the content of your posts over the last few months, I would have thought that your kids would be getting a PhD grounding in Applied Factual Relativism (ie porkies - albeit via homeschooling). But I’d be getting someone in for the spelling. Chances are the kids will have to spell. Not many jobs for people wot can’t. But it’s the cockatiel I’m worried about. She’d be a very confused parrot.
As to coppers, I’ve actually met a few decent coppers - mostly in the bush - who operate with tact, respect and diplomacy. Who use initiative and discretion. Who seek to be part of the communities they work in. They do not rush to judgment. Who look for evidence. Who do not use fear, violence or intimidation. They are honest. They are mostly young. And they rarely last.
No fan of gulags, walls, razor wire, gossip or mobs of “honest citizens” hurling rocks. Never have been. Thought I had made that clear over recent months.
I’m obviously not explaining myself well. I must dock my pay.
Excellent point Patriot (I think???) … like the silent “p” in swimming pool.
This particular Thompson has however had his obligatory “P” removed for some reason. Perhaps you should tell him he can’t spell his own name. That’s the NSW ALP for ya!
Strangely enough you raise an interesting question - about patriotism. And I think we can learn a bit from the way patriotism was employed in the undemocratic regimes that called themselves socialist.
The initial thinking behind socialism - or what became socialism and communism - was very very ambivalent to nationalism. They weren’t too fond of seeing workers and their sons being dragged off to fight in ruling class squabbles. … which empire owned what or whom. Workers and the poor were politically and “structurally” alienated from the state - not part of it - no vote, no schooling, no welfare, subsistence wages, no hope. Just work and die.
That’s why the old communist slogan was - Workers of the World Unite. You have Nothing to Lose but Your Chains. It wasn’t about nation building - striving for the motherland and building armies. It was about international co-operation, beyond nationalism and national interest. It was saying that workers had only their own interests - and those interests spanned the globe.
Sadly this nice idea doesn’t translate well into history and geography. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel and there have been no shortage of them in revolutionary situations or where absolute power can be seized absolutely. Communism/socialism has produced some absolute scoundrels. And they have invariably been the most patriotic of leaders.
Patriotism is so easy… its lazy logic and platitudinous appeal to self interest is a mind-dulling, mob-mobilising strategy. It is inherent to the concept - which is both simplistic and divisive.
So the short answer is, I don’t think communism or socialism can be said to”work” anywhere. And a lot of it has to do with the mindless parrotting of patriotic platitudes.
I like Australia obviously. Love the bush. The people constantly surprise me. It’s very beautiful. But then so is Venice. The world’s Good Things don’t stop at the beach.
Well, your problem is clearly that you have all sorts of baseless, illogical ideas muddled up in your understanding of patriotism. Patriotism is understood to mean, very simply, love of ones country. You can’t redefine it, based on what one person said over 200 years ago, to mean insincere profession of love of ones country for personal advantage - that is clearly not patriotism - nor can you credibly declare a person guilty of the latter without basis.
Got it in one Pat…
Patriotism is understood very simply…. if at all.
Now I’m not necessarily saying that personal advantage alone motivates the “Patriot” … it could just be a desire to “fit-in” to be part of something bigger than oneself… that’s a sort of personal advantage but not particularly sinister unless you’re at a Nuremburg Rally.
But the most vociferous, the loudest, the most strident Patriots often not only claim to know what Orstraya is. They also claim to know what it is not. All these “unOrstrayan” things - like boat people, like taxes, like protesters, like unions, like moslems.
Yet most of the self-described “Patriots” … all of the actually … I’ve come across know next to nothing about this country they profess to love. No knowledge of it’s origins, history, ecology, political institions, laws…
So what are they “celebrating”? What is this thing they say they love? The sunshine? The beach? Strewth, anyone would like that. Everywhere gets a bit of sun. What’s so special about Orstraya?
There you go again! Attributing all kinds of surreptitious intent to people who do nothing more than declare their love of their country. Are you such a xenocentric misanthrope that you can’t conceive of people who believe in the idea of a nation, are proud of theirs and act to advance her interests?
You are the one who appears to be out of touch with the prevailing attitude of Australians to your list of grievances - illegals are not welcome, nor is taxation to pay for them or for other loony-left social engineering. Whinging, dole-bludging protesters are about as popular as the plague right now and MusIims are rightly viewed with scepticism at best, if not disdain. And displaying our flag is not r_cist!
Ah you are obviously a fan of Great Patriots - like Ronald Reagan. “There you go again” was used as a tag line in the 1980 Presidential campaign. Dated but shows you like the old time stuff. Pity he bankrupted the place.
What surreptitious intents am I attributing? None at all I assure you… unless shallowness and ignorance are surreptitious. But they seem pretty obvious from here.
What I am saying is that flag-waving is often a distraction from what is actually going on. They say they “love Australia” but what they really mean is that they hate everything that they have decided is unOrstrayan.
What I am saying - indeed what you are saying - is that you don’t “love this country” at all - only those bits of it you like… the white bits, the non-muslim bits, the non-protesting bits, the non-refugee bits and the non-tax bits.
See patriotism isn’t necessarily about love of one’s country - it can equally be about hatred of everyone else, anything new, anything different.
So tell us Mr P what do you actually like about the place? Or are you actually protesting about what it now is or has become?
That is yet another puerile misstatement of what I said and of what patriotism is. You’ve bored me. How about you just look it up in the dictionary, moron. It has nothing to do with scoundrels or with hating anyone.
This particular Thompson has however had his obligatory “P” removed for some reason. wrote peter ormonde. Taking the P(iss) out of the Labor Icon Craig Thomson! Edward James
Puerile is holding on to notions that history has left in the dust - like patriotism
Game, set and match I think.
Lots of strong feelings about what is wrong with the place - who shouldn’t be here - who and what is NOT Orstrayan… but nothing, nothing at all about what they actually like about the place, why they love it…seems mostly about hate and anger to me. A pus fest.
Sharp eye that Sam Johnson… could spot a phoney a mile off - even a couple of centuries off.
Just because you’re still talking nonsense after everyone has tired of it doesn’t mean you’ve won the argument, Peter. You are a fool and simply aren’t worthy of my time.
Aw shucks …. guess that means I’m just not of the true Volk eh? Unorstrayan.
Phew - that’s a relief.
Again I ask you the simple question Mister Lover of Country - what is it about Orstraya that you actually like? What makes you reach for your flag and start waving it about?
Betcha can’t tell us.
Liberty, equality(not the loony-left social engineer kind), opportunity, prosperity. The things you incorrectly state that I hate - illegal immigration, excessive governance, professional whingers, lsIam - are all threats to these things I love about this country. Simple enough, comrade? Seriously but, where the hell does a communist get off telling people what normal Australian values are or should be?
Ah …
Liberty, equality, opportunity and prosperity… all good things. Wonder how we got them? Did the Queen give them to us? Or was it the redcoats?
Or was it things like electyions, laws, wage regulation, schools, taxes, hospitals, roads … oh yes that’d be guvvermint wouldn’t it?
And to think we just found it here - waiting for us all… gift wrapped in a Union Jack.
And what we have got is due to people like Chinese, Afghans, Italians, Greeks, Slavs of all sorts…. even - god save us - your bog Irish left wing radicals. And anglicans, muslims, jews, buddhists and even a smattering of zoroastrians… even atheists. Even comms. Even ex comms. We are everywhere.
But I’m curious - intrigued - about this sort of equality you like … what does a sensible right wing sort of equality look like Pat? Everyone is equal - some more equal than others? Orstraya - Oink Oink Oink?
Who is “too equal” in your Orstraya - blacks (not really Orstrayans are they… not like us at all… why don’t they just get good private sector jobs and get rich?) migrants, dole-bludgers, protestors, lefty social engineers, guvvermint, refugees (at least the ones that come by boat rather than plane). .. be a long list I’d reckon.
Worth remembering that your Liberte, Egalite and the like shook Mother England to its foundations at the time we were unwrapping the place. Lots of heads rolled for those words. If you’d read any history of this place you love so much you’d also discover that the ideas that established this place were highly experimental and radical. What, no aristocracy? Don’t worry the Proper People tried to establish one. In law.
See this is where you get this stuff from Pat, this stuff you claim to love - from people arguing, from ratbag radicals who reckon women should get a vote, who reckon kids should be able to go to school, who want to make enough of a wage to make sure their kids have a better future. Who believe in a Fair Go. That is a deeply subversive slogan Pat. Was then. Still is.
Anyway Pat … just more silly confused ideas … so wave the little flag, and build those razor wire fences to keep out all those unOrstrayan things, cling to the wreckage. Life and Australia has moved on. I’ll take today’s Australia over your dusty lavender-smelling Orstraya myth any day.
PO - Patridiot seems to be an amerikan klone, or wants to be, given its tropes & phrasing.
Perhaps one can sort (warning! rural analogy - alien meaning ,long lost to most urbanoids - hint: it has to do with ‘lead’ & ‘drive’) the sheep from the goats on the subject with a couple of choice quotes.
A patridiot disagrees with the following statements
“If I had to choose between betraying my friend and country, I hope that I would have the courage to stick by my friend”,
“Better ten guilty escape than one innocent suffers”,
and from Wilfred Owen (well know pacifist & combat shirker) “The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori.”
Shorter Rabid Right - if the Abos. don’t like it here, why don’t they go back where they came from?”
Kinda like the Septic’s “how come our oil is under their sand?”
WHISTLEBLOWER; PLUS ANYONE WHO WANTS A GOOD LAUGH: I have copied the following from WHISTLEBLOWER: “”Try addressing the issues rather than engaging in ad hominem attacks”“…….
Coming from the person who has taken such attacks to previously unknown heights he gives the term chutzpa a whole new dimension.
You are are man (?) whose verbal crapulence is devoid of knowledge, syntax and decent spelling. Now stop wasting everyone’s time.
Error: “You are are man…” To read “You are a man”.
@venise alstergren
I have reviewed your most recent posts, and other than vile personal attacks on those with any disagree, I don’t think I have seen any arguments of substance, or any reference to logical analysisor deductive reasoning.
Obviously you have difficulty dealing with facts and logical analysis, or even a logical hypothesis which may require some breakdown in terms of its logical determinants.
Your latest rant just confirms this assertion. I hope you feel better after your last little tantrum. It’s amazing how rabid left wing trolls resort to personal attack rather than dealing with issues.
@venise alstergren
Furthermore the formal definition of crapulence relates to over drinking or over eating per the following derivation: “crāpulentus drunk, from Latin crāpula, from Greek kraipalē drunkenness, headache resulting therefrom ‘.
Methinks you may have mixed your metaphors, perhaps mistakenly assuming that the word crapulence meant something like excrement. Apparently a lot of people lacking a full command of English language imagine that crapulence means excrement and I suspect you may have made that mistake.
A more appropriate analogy may well have been “verbal diarrhoea” an affliction from which you yourself may suffer.
VA - another typo shurley (hic!) - you meant previously unknownDEPTHS?
AR: I understand where you’re coming from, but I was trying to give the feeling of the whole universe being appalled at the chutzpa of this man. Do you think “unknown depths” gives this impression?
I’m always interested in peoples’ interpretations.
I’ve written another comment-which was promptly moderated, in which I have said absolutely nothing to interest the moderating machine. All very frustrating.
Former Communist Party of Australia Environment Spokesperson Peter Ormonde,
You are angry - possibly due to the recent bombshell revelations regarding your shocking, secret past in the Communist Party - and confused. I never said I was opposed to all government, just excessive government, like unreasonable wage regulation - which is in fact denial of liberty - and affirmative action, which is the loony-left Bizzaro World version of equality that actually amounts to state mandated, institutionalised inequality, with the fashionable identity groups of the day being more equal than everyone else.
Just once I’d like to see you post a reply that doesn’t start with a misstatement of my position, before launching into an incoherent, self-hating, xenocentric, anti-capitalist rant vilifying this country and her history.
Hello again Pat … I’m glad you’re back.
Now you know my name Pat. Let’s all have yours. No. Didn’t think so. I’m actually quite proud of my history of involvement in ecology other issues. I don’t hide. So no I’m not “angry” at all… rather amused actually. I’d forgotten Paul Shanley’s name. He was a good fella. What were you doing in 1978 Pat? Anything you’d be proud of at all?
No. This is what you think: … illegals are not welcome, nor is taxation to pay for them or for other loony-left social engineering. Whinging, dole-bludging protesters are about as popular as the plague right now and MusIims are rightly viewed with scepticism at best, if not disdain. And displaying our flag is not r_cist!”
Not my words. Yours. I am not interested in satirising or miscasting your feelings. I would like to understand them. So tell us more.
You say you like the liberty and equality of Australia. I’m saying that - to the extent it exists- is here not because of conservatives like you but because of ratbags like me. The reason we have decent wages and working conditions and schools and hospitals and medicare and … well pretty much anything at all…. is because of ratbags like me.
Tell me something - anything - done by a Liberal leader - at any time - of which we can all be proud… or for which you feel proud. Anything.
Tell me what you know about the history of this Great White Land Pat? Is wage regulation “unreasonable” in modern Orstraya? How did you come to be an Orstrayan?
Incidentally I suspect that “opportunity” and “prosperity” from your list of likes are more or less synonymous. That true?
I may have said my first word in 1978. I’d have to check with my parents. I don’t see how you got yourself fixated on history. We were discussing patriotism. What a country was is not as important as what it is, just as what a person was is not as important as what they are. You understand that if you are, as you claim, cured of your communism(note that I don’t believe your claim).
What am I proud of? I’m proud that John Howard took a principled stand against illegal immigration and stopped the boats. I’m proud that he told ungrateful, misbehaving immigrants to integrate. I’m proud that Peter Costello balanced the books, paid Labors debt and ensured that government lived within its means.
As much as you wish it were, the prevailing culture in Australia right now is not one of sympathy for people who whinge, abrogate personal responsibility or demand special treatment at the expense of others. Wallowing in guilt over the actions of the first colonists and immersing yourself in the loony-left circle-jerk of sites like this has divorced you from reality, I’m afraid.
So when you say you love this country - you do not love everything about it do you?
It’s filling up with foreigners, with people on boats, with people demanding, whinging It’s run by spendthrifts and wastrels. Illegal immigration.
You loved Australia under Howard. Not under Hawke, or Keating, Or Whitlam or Fraser - just Honest John…. the Golden Era. Where are all our statues to those leaders who balanced the books do you reckon?
So history isn’t your forte … you like what is here now - or rather what was here then - under John Howard. A very particular sort of patriot. Back when there was real liberty, equality, opportunity and prosperity. History doesn’t matter. Traditions… do they matter? Which do you like?
I am interested in how you form your opinions. Apparently your decisions are not clouded by facts or information about the place. You seem to know very little about it. You know what you don’t like though. Like all Patriots, seething with hate and anger … making a statement Us - not you! Orstraya… where everyone can be rich and white.
See, there you go again with the misstatement. It’s frustrating as hell that you won’t respond to arguments, but insist instead on constructing a straw man to attack. I never expressed a view on Hawke, Keating or Whitlam. Nor on “foreigners”. You may as well be talking to yourself. In fact, you can do just that and save me the effort.
No, Mr P, I think we have spoken enough. People can make up their own minds about the merit of your advocacy of Patriotism.
Interesting comments.
Whistleblower ahead by a mile.
I have seen Ormones comments and bothered to argue a point with him in the past.
Communist? I don’t think so. Enviromental Communist? it is a contradiction in terms.
For him to still state he is one and argue against patriotism is a total LOL.
The State is put above all else, including human rights and enviromental concerns; example; total support for the death penalty for crimes against the State and pro nuke power.
Having a rellie who is the longest living member of the communist party who once lived and studied in the USSR I am still kept up to date on all matters communist and enjoy my cuppers with these very old great rellies.
What PO sounds more like is a green socialist, and a not very staunch one at that.
To the pathetic anti aussies bagging patriotism may I suggest you go talk to your australian grandparents, if you are lucky enough to have them, about what it means to be an aussie, as you serouly need a strong lesson in cultural history rather than cherry picking dull quotes for the 1700s.
PATRIOT: Your unfortunate comments to PETER ORMONDE lead me to believe you would empathise with the first line of the patriot’s hymn, “My country right or wrong”. Do you hold your hand over your heart when the national anthem is played?
Chunder.
You invoke patriotism, the way other people so aggressively invoke a belief in God; indeed, the way the David Flints of this world invoke heredity monarchy. Largely it reveals a person who thinks he/she may be losing an argument and wishes to make the other person feel inferior. They are cheap shots of the genre “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
You give patriotism a shonky facade. Shame on you.
Venise …
It’s actually worse than that I’m afraid with your off the shelf flag-waving patriotism here … it’s my country wrong. Invariably.
They love the country not for what it is. Never what it is. What it was. What it should be. Nostalgic mythology. Always.
And always under attack - from within and without. By “threats to Our Way of Life”… by change… the world at large.
They look at what Australia is … imagine where it is heading and … they don’t like it. No siree. It’s unOrstrayan.
And the cheap imported yankee sort of mindless patriotism is the worst of the lot… just like the cheap imported flags they wave.
But in a sense they are right … history has passed them by … overtaken by events. Australia is not Orstraya. It never really was.
We are watching the death throes of a dinosaur stuck in tar.
@ Patriot
Welcome to the club.
Membership is exclusive, and requires the recipient to have received poisoned barbs from a master of sarcasm and rabid condemnation, a person who thinks he/she may be losing an argument and wishes to make the other person feel inferior by the use of “cheap shots”.
WHISTLEBLOWER: You can’t even attempt to be witty without swiping someone else’s phraseology.
Where do you have your meetings: in a ‘phone booth?
PETER O: “Family values” is another gut-sickener. “”And the cheap imported yankee sort of mindless patriotism is the worst of the lot”” Couldn’t agree more, and isn’t the same country virtually moribund as a result?
Certainly, they have more money than anyone else but how far will it tolerate being spent three times over? How long will Australia continue to offer up the lives of it’s youth to fight in places which have no bearing on Oz at all?
Cheers
V
@Venise Alstergren
Touche!
Patridiot - so we may assume that you are under 40, callow, cretinous and credulous. Not your fault, could be genes, poor education or having lived under a rock with your intellectual betters, slugs & mould but I would guess it’s more likely that unlovely combination of igorance & arrogance so endemic in the shallow end of the forelock tugging pool of grovelling indadequates.
<Ad hominem? Only if you were, rather than a badly prgrammed spambot.
Else you would NOT be proud that John Howard took a principled stand against illegal immigration and stopped the boats… told ungrateful, misbehaving immigrants to integrate…that Peter Costello balanced the books, paid Labors debt and ensured that government lived within its means.
@Patriot
Your star is in the ascendancy if you have been attacked by two cerebrally challenged left wing trolls on the one day!
Regards
W
@ LisaCrago
Yes. I have not seen a communist country care for the environment. Have you?
USSR - no
Chine - no
so Environmental Communist - no such thing.
“Statement by Peter Ormonde and Paul Shanley, Communist Party of Australia, Ecology Action Group. Newcastle Morning Herald, 1978 April 20.”
WHISTLEBLOWER: Your comment 2 February 2012 @ 6:56 pm.
You have to be joking! I am well aware of the word crapulence and its association with alcohol. I used the word to invoke overdoing of something. It’s called poetic licence, or license. Check with your OED-if you have one.
You are always questioning my vocabulary When you have the same ability with words as I do, then is the time to question me. Now run along back to the barbie and don’t forget your thongs.
Now Suzanne if we’re going to be limited to those things you’ve seen there won’t be much to discuss will there?
Now how come a confirmed tin foil beanie conspiracy theorist like yerself not polevaulted to the OBVIOUS conclusion? That this whole ecology business - the Greens and their secret Red plans for the economic annihilation of this country and the entire Western Way of Life via carbon taxes and windmills and the UN and the Bureau des Poids et Mesures …. are all a Red Plot… sorry RED PLOT … and the Greens are really full of Reds and should be Browns. Strewth woman open your eyes! The evidence is plain. Where’s my copy of Leviticus? Kids, get the rocks!
Actually of course you are right… old so-called socialist economies were amongst the worst. Thought that everything was unlimited… including air and water. Thought science and technology would have all the answers. That science couldn’t get it wrong. It was essentially religious and deeply irrational.
It was on these very issues that I and others raised serious questions about the “accepted wisdom” - about the way Eastern Bloc and others were doing irreparable damage to the environment and their own people. And the arrogant attitude they displayed - often brutal - to those who questioned the state and its sense of “progress”.
Now I’m not sure what you were doing in 1978 Suzanne…. but I was politically active, a passionate environmentalist. We kids regarded the local Labor Party as a purely electoral machine completely controlled by a family dynasty. An idea free zone. So we joined the CPA - and met some good people with whom we could argue ideas and politics. It was that sort of town.
But such infatuations do not last and - after a visit to Yugoslavia under Tito I came back deeply questioning the realities of the invariably damaged and crippled places that called themselves socialist. Deeply traumatised places - frozen in time and supressed conflict. At best the rhetoric was always betrayed by pragmatic reality, at worst it was a conspiracy to impose and cling to power. Either way it was impossible to ignore its failures even then.
So we parted company. That was 1980. Long time ago. But a lot of what I thought then I think now. I’m just a lot less optimistic and dewy-eyed when it comes to my fellow humans and self interest.
So rake over your “scandal” all you like … a cold case indeed but I guess some people feel all warm and snug wrapped in their Cold War comforters.
If anyone likes we can have a serious discussion about why socialism didn’t work in these places - but hopefully we’ll be able to get beyond the things seen by Suzanne Blake.
@ Former Comrade!! Peter Ormonde
Lovely piece.
Here is the take away
“But a lot of what I thought then I think now” Peter Ormonde February 4, 2012.
SUZANNE BLAKE: Woman, when will you ever get your facts accurate? Singapore under the ex-Prime minister, Lee Kwan Yew, was one of the first countries to address the environment-long before Australia had even thought of it. Lee got into power as a communist, has never recanted, and is still the Deus et machina of the ruling People’s Action Party.
And what did I think then Ms Blake? Let’s see if your oracular gifts stretch to telling the past as will as making mistakes about the future.
@ Venise Alstergren
I am well aware of Lee Kwan Yew. Have been to Singapore over 20 times in the past 30+ years and I have never seen a hint of Communism, far from it.
So the only Communist Countries I can compare are USSR and China and North Korea of course.
In fact you are wrong on Mr Lee
“He pursued an aggressive anti-communist campaign” but did restrict free speech and the right to protest.
SUZANNE BLAKE: I know Singapore very well. When Lee Kuan Yew was getting into power we endured the various curfews imposed on the country. We watched Lee Kuan Yew as he read the political winds to perfection. Communism was the call of the East Wind; what the people wanted. All the rhetoric was communist and Lee
got into power as a communist. Just in case you don’t know these things there are acres of books on the subject. Did you ever meet Lee?
What is the matter with you? you appeared on Crikey’s pages as a non-functional member of the commentariat who couldn’t form a proper sentence. Your arrogance reveals your ignorance. You know nothing. You are merely a bored housewife with political overtones. So shut your hole honey.
@ Venise Alstergren
I have not met him. I just googled him and no mention of Communism anyway, just that he was anti communist. People Action Party does not mean communist.
You can’t believe that Singapore has communist traits or even remotely like it.
Bob Brown is more Communist that Mr Lee.
SUZANNE BLAKE: “”never seen a hint of Communism, far from it.”” Liar. You mistake a well functioning country for a democracy. It isn’t. Dissenters are punished ruthlessly. News Media-what there is of it-is censored heavily. Peoples’ lives are completely thought out by the state, dictated by the state. Ruled by the state.
Perhaps you might lift the cover of glittering capitalism and discover the real origin of modern Singapore, and the people who died, or were exiled because their opinion was different to Lee’s government. You make me vomit.
“Bob Brown is more Communist that Mr Lee.”
Now you’re talkin’ Sooz!
And that Katter fella - or Dimitri as we know him. Agents Oakeshott, Windsor and that other fella who’s name I always forget.
And that deepest of deep plants Barnaby Joyce.. planted so deep even he doesn’t know. An early experiment in mind control - small beginnings. Later we started working on a larger scale with mice.
And don’t fergit thet muslim bloke we’ve put into the White House … or that woman we’ve parachuted into the IMF… what sort of haircut is that for an economist I ask you? So obvious these Reds. And China - the place is crawling with ‘em … buying our coal and our real estate. Talk about sinister. Destroying us with their money.
The Red Peril is everywhere Sooz. Even Abbott - an IED on the road to economic ruination. Our ace in the hole. Our doomsday button. If Brown fails.
Well grubbed old mole.
Did you see Nicola Roxon spoke on Melbourne Radio on Wednesday night and backed Gillard and said that Rudd would still keep trying to be PM.
It was played on 9 News tonight.
Roxons Department / Spin Managers released the transcript of the interview and left out that piece, said the audio was “inaudible”. Utter BS
Straight faced ly ing, spin and Labor coverup there.
Same with Australia Day when they incited race violance and riots.
@ Peter Ormonde
Proof Bob Brown is a COMMUNIST
Greens Preference Communists in Port Adelaide By-election
blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2012/02/greens-preference-communists-in-port-adelaide-by-election.html#more
As if further proof was needed Sooz! For some no proof is sufficient - for others no proof is enough.
And it took you to work it out Sooz - you with your foresnic skills and your incredible research capacity. Spread the word! Alert the masses! This must be exposed! Everywhere.
Meanwhile I’m buying shares is the local gravel quarry Leviticus Gravel … I reckon the demand for good quality throwing stones is going to sky-rocket. Trousers Thomson will be good for at least a semi-load. Then there’s Brown, and Gillard, And Oakeshott and well all of them really. So few rocks, so little time.
Leviticus - we’ve got the stones.
@ Peter Ormonde
It just highlights the deception that is Labor’s cancer at the moment.
She says something and then her offices denies it and fills the transscript with lies and spin.
Why?
@ Peter Ormonde
It just highlights the deception that is Labor’s cancer at the moment.
She says something and then her offices denies it and fills the transscript with li es and spin.
Why?
Yes of course Suzanne … most normal people don’t realise the depths of depravity to which the body politic has been reduced. It’s all falling into place quite nicely.
The place is filled with homosexuals, heterosexuals … not like those nice men like Mr Menzies who were not into any sort of that kind of thing. And women. Wearing trousers. Young people. Educated people. Not what you were wanting is it? Ha! - we slipped ‘em through while you were asleep while John Howard was singing lullabies.
So there you have it Sooz - you’ve blown the lid of the biggest conspiracy since last week’s RACE RIOT at the Lobby. And yes Sooz, I threw the shoe. But Bob Brown slipped it off for me.
Now go forth and let everyone know what you have discovered. Get on the phone - get on-line. Tell the world.
Gather those stones! Bring the kiddies.
@ Peter Ormonde
I will leave that to the media, they have better coverage.
Peter, surely you discussed communism with Bob when you interviewed him for The Communist Party of Australia’s Tribune. So tell us, is he a red?
No No No Sooz! Don’t just leave your discovery languishing neglected here on the left-wing interweb. This needs to be thrown wide open.
We’re talking Piers Ackerman or Ray Hadley at least! Even Alan or Andrew! This is big Sooz. No BIGGER than that. They’ll want interviews. Film and photos. You might need to disguise yourself. Perhaps take on yet another identity - go into witness protection and move the family interstate.
Your expose tonight of Bob Brown as a tool of the Kremlin makes the RACE RIOT pale into insignificance - a storm in a tea-cup… a frenzy of confected outrage. A cheap slapstick sideshow.
So don’t you underestimate yourself Ms Blake. The fight has only just begun. The world needs you Suzanne. It’s all a communist plot! Stop the presses!
@ Peter Ormonde
It was certainly a communist plot by China and the former USSR to veto the Syria action at the UN Security Council.
- China does not want the same thing happening in Tibet
- Russia sells 25% of its arms to Syria and has a Naval base there, one of the last left outside former USSR.
What do you say to that Comrade Ormonde?
@ Venise Alstergren
Done a lot of business in Singapore and with Government, no hint of communism.
Yes they are strict on rubbish, chewing gun, washing truck tyres before their leave building sites, drugs etc, but not communism.
Russia?
Oh. I see. Leopards and spots eh Sooz? There’s no foolin’ you for a minute is there???
No of course they’re all still communists over there - even the Chinese … although there seems to be a very high membership for multimillionaires in the Chinese Communist Party. And we know how the Russians and the Chinese - communists or not - just love each other to bits and work together on every possible occasion.
Yes we just know this.
When do we start talking about Vlad (the impaler) Putin as a creature of the filthy capitalist system? Do you have a set of bifocals like Edna Everage? Can you only see backwards?
I’m amazed one of our intelligence services hasn’t just snapped you up with this intuitive grasp of reality.
Have a squizz at the Bureau de Poids et Mesures website Sooz. That’ll really open your eyes.
You’ll realise that these scientists and the like are Neo-Bonapartist revanchist fanatics who want to turn everything into units of ten. And they will stop at nothing to achieve their decimal ends. Even words domination. Jacobins the lot of them … Children of Robespierre and the French Terror.
So many plots… so few fingers.
oh dear PO
maybe you need to brush up on some faacts yourself
RUSSIA
is NOT a communist country at all.
infact it is far more advanced in human rights than say the USA who still condone the death penalty.
So don’t confuse political ideology with trading blocks as it just sounds dumb.
It never ends every time I visit Crikey there she is, Suzanne(are we there yet)Blake’s infantile bleetings, ranting on raving about the validity of her own “special” insiders grasp on inanity,FFS Suzanne take your medication or grow a brain oxygen thief, your repetitive rants are as welcome as ebola,personally I think you should be cited for serial broadband pollution, no doubt your reaction will be to put your fingers in your ears, given you are no doubt a multi-tasker even that you would see as waxing lyrical braindead.
Lisa,
Russia - not communist? You mean Suzanne Blake might be misinformed???? That the Ourimbah Oracle has stuffed up.
Now that would be ironic wouldn’t it? Lisa battling it out with Suzanne Blake about whether Russia is still a communist country? Battle of the Titans.
Lisa - read Suzanne’s post above mine - then read mine - and it might make sense - even to a political scientist like yourself. Look up irony or facetiousness on the interweb.
Strewth! Are people still turpsed from last night or are they getting in early????
BRIAN62: It wouldn’t be so bad if she drew on some experience of her own- empirical evidence; a certain depth of academic research-you know, silly boring old stuff like that?
When I said that Singapore’s leader Lee Kuan Yew had started out as a communist she knew better. I explained that I drew on empirical experience, having spent a lot of time in that country. She replied that she had just googled the subject.
Pathetic isn’t she?
SUZANNE BLAKE: I asked you to look at the origins of modern day Singapore you
mental spastic.
Do something useful. Go and live in Singapore. Start up your very own Liberal Democracy Party. On your return you’ll be able to write an in-depth analysis of the country’s prison system-the special prisons where political dissenters are sent. For once, you’ll actually know what you’re talking about.
Why are all my comments being moderated; or is the machine doing it on the basis of my name? Why not moderate the lunatic ravenings of the semi-literate and semi-informed blake patriots above?
@ VENISE ALSTERGREN Posted Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink When you attract the attention of the moderator with something which dose that sort of thing. They may flag your email or whatever, then when you hit post comment, the string will load your comment and it may have the words “your comment is awaiting moderation” above your post. The thing is I often see those words above comments I write yet my comments remain. Edward James
Venise,
As I have suggested to others, just tell them you’re a copyright violator. The lefties just adore that sort of “free speech” and they will recognise your right to post anything you want anywhere you want.
EDWARD JAMES: Thanks for your suggestions. I fancy it’s a tad more sophisticated in that I can write a comment like this, and it will probably be accepted. There’s a list of names of beliefs and countries which I’ve learned to avoid. But the only thing I can think of is that the country under discussion between Mrs Basil Fawlty and moi might also on the list.
Mr PAT… Why do I have a nasty suspicion that your advice was not well intended?
@Suzanne Blake -
“Then Gillard takes over and cause we are so far in front, people dont see how bad she is is doing, but she still looks good cause of the lead she started with.”
The lead we started with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would be a budget in structural deficit after 6 years of a once in a lifetime resources boom,
or was it a middle class with a desperate sense of entitlement and a whinge mentality.
Yeah thanks Pete and John. Fine work. The plebs still haven’t worked you out.
As for Gillard and Rudd, there is one truth that can never change.
“If the answer is Rudd, you just asked the wrong question.”
@ Dogs breakfast
Sorry about the mess at your place. Labor started with a $21 billion surplus.
Resources Boom is continues?
Gold price is higher, much higher than when Howard was in power. Other metals / elements? the same for most of them.
Now look Suzanne it’s really hard enough to try and work out what you’re on about most of the time. There is no need to make this absolutely impossible by writing in grunts.
“Resources Boom is continues?”
Now I can understand how this can happen to a busy commentator… one’s keyboard becomes so speckled and obscured with spray, foam and slaver that one loses all sense of qwertyness…. becomes digitally dis-oriented and starts channeling a neanderthal ancestor of some sort.
Actually I find that when it comes to de-flecking the froth from my own laptop one can’t go past Spray and Wipe and a blue wipey thing. And it leaves the head with a mind-cleansing lemony fragrance - only slightly toxic. You won’t notice a thing.
@ Comrade Commander Peter Ormonde
Fantastic News, you have a Communist mate in the Senate, ex KGB mole
GREENS leader Bob Brown has rejected reports his relationship with NSW Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon is toxic.
“I see some really nasty, biased and unfair attacks on Lee Rhiannon, who’s a friend of mine,” Senator Brown told journalists in Canberra.
“She’s a good stick, she’s intelligent and she’s contributing to this parliament.”
Senator Brown’s denial of a rift follows an extensive article in The Monthly which chronicled tensions between him and Senator Rhiannon.
The article said Senator Brown was seen as a “megalomaniac” by members of Senator Rhiannon’s NSW branch, and was prohibited from writing to his party’s branch members without permission from the states.
The story on the Greens, who have been under increasing public scrutiny since they won the balance of power in the 2010 federal election, followed revelations in The Australian about Senator Rhiannon’s links with the KGB in Australia.
Declassified ASIO files showed a secret meeting was set up between the now-senator and the man identified as the KGB station chief in Australia ahead of a lengthy 1970 overseas trip seen as a milestone in her ideological development.
Senator Rhiannon dismissed the report as Cold War delusions, but did not deny the claim.
Senator Brown today defended Senator Rhiannon as a trustworthy member of parliament and maintained relations between the pair were good.
“I am catching up with her again this afternoon and any implication that you see in The Australian or anywhere else that she and I don’t get along is simply bunkum,” he said.
“Lee’s a friend of mine, I admire her and she’s got my support.”
Statement by Peter Ormonde and Paul Shanley, Communist Party of Australia, Ecology Action Group. Newcastle Morning Herald, 1978 April 20.
“But a lot of what I thought then I think now” Peter Ormonde February 4, 2012.
Now now Sooz … don’t you go guilding my lilly for me.
I have never assumed any titles … let alone commander … unless you cont my chooks.
But as to the meat and spuds of your more delusional terrors - all true - every word a sermon! Brown, the woman with the unspellable name, Barnaby Joyce, Abbott … the lot … all part of a deep sinister plot to turn Our Wide White Land into a haven for, well all sorts of things we don’t like … and turn us into a nation of pre-industrial North Korean card flippers.
So yes Sooz … get out the sandwich board and the megaphone… start tramping up and down the byways of Kincumber proclaiming your new revealed truth… Time to Tell The World! It’s the Reds. They’re everywhere. Spinning stuff and having plots.
And, as if any further proof was needed, from the world of physics - what do you get when you mix Red and Green together Suzanne? A Brown.
A good joke da?
@ Peter Ormonde
Don’t need to travel down to Kincumber to find enough people who don’t know the mess we are in and the truth.
The only good thing about red and green is the bunnies!!! But I was a weener, when they last won.
Mrs BASIL FAWLTY: We can’t be in too much of a mess, otherwise you would not have the time to spend all day on the internet.
Have you no shame in doing a fast bit of trawling Google prior to launching out with yet another witless comment? You know bügger all about Singapore, yet you lack the grace to concede a point. Perhaps you don’t understand, so I’ll spell it out for you. After delivering yet another bit of inaccurate cräp, no one’s going to believe you on what you really care about.
I don’t think you are a housewife at all. I think you’re a bloke-possibly a writer deliberately including spelling mistakes, and deliberately mucking up your syntax- I don’t believe you care about any particular issue, but someone has paid you to be a professional shït stirrer.
grace… that is rich coming from VA, the nasty little pasty who wouldn’t know grace if it jumped up and handed her a cup of tea with a fairy cake.
Don’t worry SB The Greens are not smart enough to be real communists so until they decided to follow their great hero Assange and leak confidentialgovernment documents they can’t do much damage other than be the usual national embarressmentt.
Here is a tip. Lets ask Sir Bob what he thinks of Mrs Hanson-Young? or maybe that is now to be Ms Hanson.
@ Venise Alstergren
Sorry Venise. Wrong again. Further, I am paid by no one, work for no one in politics and never have, never been to a political meeting, rally or even local member spin workshop.
Was a swinging voter and now eyes wide open after Rudd and Gillard.
On the other hand…
Venise Alstergren on HuffingtonPost
.aol.com/social/Venise_Alstergren?action=profile
Well educated and articulate I am renown for my ability to bore the pants off anyone in a heated discussion. Passionate believer in Green issues.
Could you tell me what happen to Professor Flannery’s 2005 prediction that Sydney dams would be dry by 2009. This ones gets bandied around a lot up our way, and is laughed at now.
SUZANNE BLAKE: Surprisingly, I don’t give a damn about the real you.
The first two paras of my comment stand.
SBH
Posted Tuesday, 31 January 2012 at 1:35 pm | Permalink
Edward James, I think you’ll find ( I could be wrong) that Kim is not a member of the ALP. She may have joined but for many years kept a distinct distance between herself and the ALP.
Still maybe you know something I don’t but as a tip to even handedness, why make such an accusation (if being called a member of one of Australia’s two major political organisations is an accusation) without a shred, a scintilla, an ounce of evidence or knowledge?
SBH we are now getting a better understanding of what went on. Certainly the video footage exposes seen all over the place helps us understand the difference between truth or lies and political spin.
I wrote this comment in the Telegraph:
With the evidence now circulating, it is time for the Telegraph to let us know if the Secretary of Unions ACT, Kim Sattler, exposed above on video distorting what Tony Abbott said early on Australia Day. Is in fact a Labor Party member or just another misguided Labor Party supporter. Edward James.
To view your comment online go to: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/video-catches-unionist-kim-sattler-giving-false-abbott-story/story-e6freuzi-1226271220024
This from Christopher Pyne picks at the scab of political spin again.
Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne says Julia Gillard must act on the release of the footage.
“The Prime Minister should ask Kim Sattler to resign from the Labor Party, unless she thinks it’s acceptable for the leader of the Opposition’s comments to be verballed in the way that they were which led to an affray,” he said.
“And she should also ask her to relinquish her roles within ACT Unions, given the ACT Unions and the Labor Party are so closely aligned.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-14/video-captures-sattler27s-words-to-australia-day-protesters/3830160
Edward James http://bit.ly/EJ_PNewsAds