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Live exports ban: drugs in cattle feed could threaten industry again

Allegations that feed additives, including drugs used to treat asthma, are being given to Australian cattle in Indonesian feedlots have the potential to again threaten the future of the live export industry.

According to Indonesian Beef Producer and Lot Feeder Association chairman Dayan Antoni, during the past year there has been a spike in the use of Salbutamol in cattle feed, which enhances muscle growth and reduces fat in affected animals.

Salbutamol is most commonly known for treating asthma, marketed as Ventolin among other brand names. It has also been used by body builders for fat-burning purposes.

I spoke to Antoni during a recent trip to Jakarta to investigate the impact of Australia’s decision to ban live exports to the country earlier this year, after the Gold Walkley-winning Four Corners investigation. While the Australian livestock industry was brought to its knees, the Indonesian industry also suffered a huge blow. In Indonesia I visited abattoirs and spoke with abattoir workers and cattle importers — both Indonesian and Australian — to gain their opinion on all that has unravelled since the ban was lifted.

Antoni — who is also the head of government relations and business development for JAPFA, one of Indonesia’s largest agri-food companies — says drugged animals are easily detected because “the carcass yield produced out of the animals was enormous”.

A normal Brahman cross cattle in an Indonesian feedlot would produce about 49% [carcass to live weight], maximum 51% — if they’re a better breed,” he said.

However as the drugging has become more rampant, Antoni says cattle are reaching 56-57%.

While he’s unable to comment specifically on the number of feedlotters using Salbutamol, he says it’s a growing problem with some feedlotters using the drug unknowingly, confused about what feed additives are legal to use under Indonesian law.

There’s a public health issue and an animal welfare issue because we are giving the drug in the feed, then to the animal and that drug forces the heart to move faster — the animal can actually go into a coma and this can result in death,” he said.

When consumed by humans the poisoned meat can have serious side effects ranging from muscle cramps, vision changes, eye pain, and irregular heartbeat. It can also result in difficulties during pregnancy causing birth defects and can prove fatal.

Antoni said the issue must be addressed with the “Australian industry because they now have control of the supply chain”.

Under the federal government’s new supply chain assurance framework Australian exporters must ensure Australian livestock exported for slaughter is treated to international animal welfare requirements right through the supply chain. Failure to do so can result in anything from cancelling an exporter’s license through to criminal sanctions.

So if something happens, they need to take charge of the supply chain — they need to discuss it with the importers [and say] ‘don’t use this’,” Antoni said.

If you’re using substances that affect the animal — of course they can’t say it’s affecting the Indonesian people because that’s for the Indonesian government to deal with — but this is affecting Australian cattle — you’re making this cattle suffer basically. I want to address this to again remind the industry that they have the obligation and responsibility to remind importers about their supply chain control.”

According to Antoni the Indonesian government imposed a 30-day “elimination and withdrawal” period which ends this week. If cattle are found displaying symptoms of the drugging at the weeks close Antoni said the association will have the mandate to take action.

If we find someone is still using it we can report it to the government,” he said.

Antoni raised the issue with Meat and Livestock Australia, Livecorp and the Australian Live Export Council in October during a meeting held in Jakarta.

This was confirmed by MLA media affairs manager Belinda Roseby, who said that at a meeting on October 10 between importers, exporters and Australian industry representatives, “the issue of illegal feed additives was raised by Dayan in his closing remarks as an issue for the industry to address”.

She went on to say: “MLA has no ability to neither investigate the claims nor take any action on the claims that illegal additives are being used — this is the role of the Indonesia authorities.”

Livecorp declined to comment on the matter. Crikey also approached the Australian Live Export Council and the Department of  Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry but they did not come back before deadline.

While the hands of MLA and Livecorp may be tied, Antoni emphasised their role, particularly earlier in the year prior to the ban on live exports, in improving animal welfare standards in Indonesia.

We had a meeting back in February this year with MLA and Livecorp to address the animal welfare issues,” Antoni said. ”They asked us to please use stunning and we said these are the problems — our culture, mindset — they are more difficult than they realise.”

These fresh allegations of animal cruelty come just six months after the Four Corners program “A Bloody Business” exposed graphic footage of cattle being mistreated in several Indonesian abattoirs.

The subsequent ban on all live exports to Indonesia left Australian pastoralists and transporters reeling, with initial reports suggesting the ban could last for up to six months and cost the industry hundreds of millions of dollars. As it turned out, the ban was lifted one month later — but not without casualties.

According to a survey conducted by the Australian Bureau of Agricultural Resource Economics and Sciences (ABARES), approximately 325 people were estimated to have either been laid off or not hired between the start of the suspension and the resumption of trade at the end of June. They included an estimated 161 people from the Northern Territory, 99 from Western Australia and 64 in Queensland.

Antoni insists that Australian exporters must take action to prevent the industry from once again coming to a standstill and fears this “one serious issue could be a much bigger animal welfare issue than the one that developed this year in Australia”.

43
  • 1
    michael l
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Labor should not make the same mistake of shutting down an entire industry that sustains towns and supports lives and jobs that are vital here and in Indonesia over an issue that clearly can be addressed through bilateral regulation and enforcement.

    From the debate and resolutions at conference I’m confident that the government can now deal with this pragmatically and with fairness for both primary producers and for those who are concerned for animal welfare.

  • 2
    Pamela
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    AS someone who finds torture repugnant, the Four Corners Program plus personal research into the live sheep industry, the treatment of domestic pigs and chooks, made up mind for me. I am descended from cattle grazers and sheep producers to add to the mix.
    I became a vegetarian after a lifetime of enjoying roasts and steaks. It is surprisingly easy and i have no desire or inclination to eat tortured flesh ever again.

  • 3
    Lord Barry Bonkton
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    There would be more jobs if they were STUNNED and killed here and boxed up and sent over and more humane. Indonesia will stop the live trade when they have enough stock to breed their own (2014 ) so really the Industry should plan ahead and not wait till its too late and start whinging to govt. for more hand outs.

  • 4
    Meski
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    @Pamela: Would you go back to eating meat if there was some kind of assurance process in place, similar, say, to the free range egg and ‘organic’ production systems?

    I’m somewhat surprised that Australian exporters are being held accountable for the actions of Indonesian importers. Lord Barry probably is right, kill and process them here, if we have to be responsible.

  • 5
    Lord Barry Bonkton
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Pamela , same here , but have only reduced my intake by about 80%. I don’t even feed my Shar-pei dog any beef products (Full of allergies) same as wheat. It means buying expensive dry food $130.00 a bag (NO wheat filler ) and buying fish products . With less beef in the diet , means less weight too. I have lost over 6 kgs so far . We are exporting our water to Indonesia with this trade and we are a dry country ???

  • 6
    GeeWizz
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    I became a vegetarian after a lifetime of enjoying roasts and steaks. It is surprisingly easy and i have no desire or inclination to eat tortured flesh ever again.”

    I love my big juicy steaks Pamela and right now am currently enjoying a delicious barbecue chicken sandwich.

    With less beef in the diet , means less weight too. I have lost over 6 kgs so far . We are exporting our water to Indonesia with this trade and we are a dry country ???”

    Sounds like iron defeciency to me. Might wanna stop by the butchers on the way home and pick up some porter loin steaks

  • 7
    Meski
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Flamebait.

  • 8
    Lord Barry Bonkton
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    SB , sounds like you need to stop on the way home for a dictionary I have no iron deficiency , i eat a lot of organic veggies from my garden and still eat fish and organic Free range chooks .

  • 9
    Paul Huntington
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    I agrre with Lord Barry, but i wonder about the agendaof the people behind these stories. Are they trying to save the industry, destroy the industry is so on whose behalf.

  • 10
    Bill Parker
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    While we are on about Salbutamol, why not open it up to antibiotics? The overuse of antibiotics in these circumstances allows multiple drug resistant strains to emerge, and emerge they have. Not long now before the bacteria take control.

  • 11
    Mack the Knife
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    There are virtually NO Aussie beef producers involved in this trade although Aussie farmers pay $5 a head subsidy.

    Bugger these huge multinationals and stop the trade immediately. The only people upset will be the Noalition and their supporters.

  • 12
    Tom
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Exported live and slaughtered in Indonesia I presume is down to yet another insane and totally idiotic religious belief system?

  • 13
    Microseris
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    An immoral trade if ever there was one. Zero consideration for the animals welfare. If they need to torture animals before eating them, maybe they should produce their own.

  • 14
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    For years I’ve been taking my cats to the vet and every time I go there they remind me NOT to to feed them beef-these aren’t pure bred cats; they’re alley cats I’ve rescued from a disastrous fate. I used to ask why, but not any more. The answer’s quite simple. The beef is so loaded with chemicals it will kill the cats; and here I’m talking twenty-five years.

    It didn’t take me long to work out that if it was deadly for cats it probably wouldn’t do me much good. I can’t remember the last time I had a beautiful piece of eye fillet, stuffed with garlic. Blue, not rare. I’ve started to salivate at the thought.

    GEEWHIZ: You are talking a ‘high protein’ diet. Sticking to beef won’t do you much good. You have to forsake all vegetables, anything remotely like bread and nothing sweet. Oh the weight will come off all right but you’ll be astounded to notice all cheese makes you feel ill, that nothing fills that cavity called a stomach the way carbohydrates do, that if pursued too far your teeth and bones will lose calcium; your sleep will become affected; the above mentioned chemicals will leach your system; your pulse rate will rocket up and your vision will become impaired. If vets have noticed that our chemical beef kills other animals, why haven’t our medicos dropped onto it? It’s all to do with keeping cozy with the beef industry. Please continue with your high protein diet. You will have a lovely time. Still, it couldn’t happen to a better person. Could it?

  • 15
    GeeWizz
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Exported live and slaughtered in Indonesia I presume is down to yet another insane and totally idiotic religious belief system?”

    Halal meat it’s called.

    The lefties want to ban halal kills oversea’s, but not here in Australia. Why is that?

    I’d happily support a ban on halal meat being sold in Australia or oversea’s from aussie producers.

  • 16
    AR
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    By talking “responsibility” for the Indonesian side of the live export transaction, Oz has become the ultimate hostage to fortune, and a malign & duplicitous one at that. What half sane or ethical person (NB - this necessarily excludes politicians & corporate shills) would imagine that Oz could have any influence of conditions & treatment once hooves hit the wharf up north?
    What is so bizarre is that the solution couldn’t be simpler - STOP LIVE EXPORTS.
    The entire industry is barely $300M, employs fewer than a couple of thousand people, including ancillaries such as truckers, commission agents & other hookers.
    Like the MDB, they and the nation would be better off if they watched day TV & soapies, picking the occasional wad of oakum as occupation therapy.

  • 17
    GeeWizz
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    SB , sounds like you need to stop on the way home for a dictionary I have no iron deficiency , i eat a lot of organic veggies from my garden and still eat fish and organic Free range chooks .”

    Hi Lord Bumpkin,

    I’m actually Truth Hurts, not SB but thanks for playing.

    You will find that most people who don’t eat meat have a large iron deficiency. BTW you will be happy to know that almost all processed foods have some form of meat by-product in them, whether it be a can of baked beans, a packet of lollies or even a loaf of bread.

    There is nothing wrong with eating meat… in fact humans are designed for it. We have canine teeth for ripping flesh and sharp back molar teeth for sawing and grinding down meat and bones. A lion out in the wild doesn’t go through the guilts when it rips down a baby wilderbeast in it’s prime, it simply makes it’s kill, has his feed and moves on and the world keeps spinning.

    Yes it is unfortunate that backwards cultures want to perform halal kills, but even the Greens are too gutless to call for it’s banning here in Australia. Would upset all those middle-eastern and j_w voters that make up their inner city latte base.

  • 18
    Hugh (Charlie) McColl
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Geewizz, it has nothing to do with halal meat. Export beef slaughtered in Australia is way out of reach for ordinary Indonesians. However, beef fattened in Indonesian feedlots and slaughtered in (often) Australian manufactured slaughterhouses sold to Indonesian businesses, is a viable business model. I don’t know what the $300m figure quoted actually covers but I know there is some serious Australian manufacturing business that has cultivated this trade and will continue to do so. In other words, it’s not just about a few northern Australian cattle barons and their transport and agency operations. This is a business that has been at least 30 years in the making. Don’t expect it to fall over with a couple of half-clever religious bigotries because it has virtually nothing to do with religion.

  • 19
    Davies Ben
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13813688

  • 20
    Davies Ben
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    oh well see what happens when america overthrow governments…

    indonesia wasn’t even a muslim country until 1962…

    how much wheat are the Iraqi’s buying….

    what has the been the real $$$$$$$ cost of these wars Johnny Howard took us too

  • 21
    Davies Ben
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    i’m surprised murdoch is not attacking Malaysia after they issued crimes against humanity charges against blair/bush and howard…

    maybe he has too too much money invested in biofuel in that country…

    what a great idea let’s use farm land for fuel…

  • 22
    geomac
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Halal meat it’s called.

    The lefties want to ban halal kills oversea’s, but not here in Australia. Why is that?

    I’d happily support a ban on halal meat being sold in Australia or oversea’s from aussie producers.

    Its also called kosher meat and on that basis it will never be banned here. Funny how a person is anti jewish but not anti muslim yet all are semites and have the same characteristics. Swarthy, middle eastern with same food rules including no pork. Mind you a russian who migrated to Israel in the eighties somehow has more right to Palestinian land by law of the gun than a Palestinian born and bred there. Strange world , strange religions.

  • 23
    GeeWizz
    Posted Tuesday, 6 December 2011 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Its also called kosher meat and on that basis it will never be banned here. Funny how a person is anti jewish but not anti muslim yet all are semites and have the same characteristics. Swarthy, middle eastern with same food rules including no pork. Mind you a russian who migrated to Israel in the eighties somehow has more right to Palestinian land by law of the gun than a Palestinian born and bred there. Strange world , strange religions.”

    Call it whatever you like, why do lefties not allow halal kills oversea’s but will allow it here?

    Seems there are a lot of old fashioned customs that need to come into the 21st Century. The majority keep getting told we have to be tolerant of minorities customs and culture, how bout the minorities do the same with our culture and customs and give up on unstunned slaughter?

  • 24
    Schnappi
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 1:46 am | Permalink

    Consider people who support animal cruelty to be Sub-Human,no ifs no buts,only dumb fools cannot see that processed and frozen meat export is the answer,more jobs far less cruelty.

  • 25
    Bio Barney
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Another inflammatory article which has very little basis. Unfortunately LBB has never been to a ‘wet’ market where a majority of Indonesians buy their protein sources. They cannot afford to buy a chilled product and therefore the assumption that Australia could export beef is not economic and no individual or company will do it. Most of the comments so far have shown that they lack any understanding about how rural Australia works and the people who devote their lives to being custodians of the land for the majority who live in cities. If people applied some of the same arguments against livestock production in relation to their children, they would running around starved and naked! The Australian cattle industry is one of the most ethical production chains in the world and our attention to animal welfare is far higher than most countries.

  • 26
    LisaCrago
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    claims that illegal additives are being used — this is the role of the Indonesia authorities.”

    This is exactly correct.

    It is in the hands of the Indonesian Government; not ours.
    Salbutamol is sold and marketed world wide as a substitute to using antibiotics to produce meat.
    http://www.stirlingproducts.net/fda-guidance-for-use-of-antibiotics-in-animal-growth-promotion/
    While it is not allowed in Australia, it is in many other countries.
    It is up to a nation state to decide what drugs and chemicals it will allow its population to be exposed to… NOT the exporter. It is NOT the role of the Australian Government to involve itself in how a coutry value adds or produces its food.

    Also what should be of more concern to the people who claim to be concerned about animal welfare is the welfare of the poor ‘animal’ people who *may* be eating meat that is feed up with chemicals. Why is the issue of cattle of more concern to such ‘rights activists’ than people? Because it is driven by vegos and vegans hell bent on stopping us eating meat altogether.
    “Rights” would be better served by educating the people of Indo to eat organic meat. However unlike us rich first nation western people they most likely are more concerned about feeding their children and do not have such luxeries.

    Our meat in Australia is ‘boosted’ with all sorts of chemicals that I won’t touch, but then it all gets back to standards allowed by various nations, an educated choice and money to pay for better quality food. Luxeries that most of the population of Indo simply do not have.

  • 27
    Blaggers
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    The whole meat industry needs to be shut down.

    I’m not a vegan/vegetarian but have had stints of no meat and can say have never felt better.

    All your nutrients are available through plant based foods.

    Yes meat is a good source of protien, but the question raised from the article is the quality of the food. We take more care and put more thought into the fuel we put into our cars than the fuel we put into our bodies.

    As someone who cares about the planet, it is quite obvious to me that this is a wholly unsustainable industry that wrecks havoc on our environment and evidently to ourselves(those who eat meat) through the additives that are given (antibiotics, steroids, fat reducers etc). You may as well do a food shop at a pharmacy.

    We are happy to decry the Japanese and Norwegians(?) for whaling, whether on environmental or sustainablilty grounds yet turn a blind eye to the big white cow/sheep/pig etc in the room.

    When are we going to grow up, take some resposibility and be shepards of/for the planet?

  • 28
    Blaggers
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    You will find that most people who don’t eat meat have a large iron deficiency.” - GeeWizz, I think you’ll find most people who don’t eat meat have a B12 deficiency. Iron is freely available in quite large quantities in green leafy vegetables. Add in a little Vit A&C and you have a readily accessable source of Iron.

    I do not know of your eating habits but i think you’ll find it pretty hard to rip the flesh of your recent kill with just your teeth. The distinction we like to make between us and animals is that they act on instinct where we have a choice. Why not compare us with an apes who are much more like ourselves? I think you’ll find that they are largely vegetarian.

    If you are going for inane arguments, i do not know of any animal that cooks it’s food.

  • 29
    AR
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    HughMcC - try ABS or even its, extra simplified, Year Book for the current “value” (as in price of everything, value of nothing) of live export.

  • 30
    AR
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    BioB - people who devote their lives to being custodians of the land for the majority who live in cities… their children… would running around starved and naked! The Australian cattle industry is one of the most ethical production chains in the world .
    Oh great,AgriBiz has discovered astroturfing. OZ farmers, in euroid mode, are soil & water miners, whether wheat or meat. Despite (or because of - but that’s another debate) massive fertilizer & pesticide inputs, the yield of the Western Division of NSW has fallen since the 19thC and I doubt that it is any different elsewhere in OZ west of the GDR.
    TTH/GWiz’s idiot comments about dentition - any reader can run their tongue around their (remaining urbanoid) teeth and realise it is putting forth the usual nonsensical crap - our molars are…errr.. molars, ie for grinding vegetable matter. Meat is not ground, even by carnivores, but swallowed in large chunks which rely upon stomach acid and a VERY short intestine.
    This is not available in any primeval, or current, primate.

  • 31
    Posted Wednesday, 7 December 2011 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    BIO BARNEYI wondered how long it would be for someone to come out with the following…”“The Australian cattle industry is one of the most ethical production chains in the world and our attention to animal welfare is far higher than most countries.”“

    This is the perfect example of the Australian crawl, cringe and squirm.

    I don’t give a flying fück about ethical behaviour/production/animal welfare in overseas countries. Why is this so? Because Oz is a very small country whose politicians grovel to half the world. They will do nothing to upset a foreign government. This leaves me powerless to obtain any justice for the unfortunate animals in their care. However, I do care deeply about Oz behaviour in these matters and have to ask you why is America’s opinion of our animal husbandry standards of any interest to America? We are trying to establish a superior template for our own animals which is better than the previous one. Not to show off ‘how clever we are’ for the American audience.

    Hell eighty-nine percent of Americans wouldn’t even know where Australia is, the language we speak, or what Gods we believe in.

  • 32
    LisaCrago
    Posted Thursday, 8 December 2011 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Bio Barney you are correct.
    Due to our vast wide open empty north full of water and feed our cattle naturally have it better than most and are treated better than in many other coutries.
    But not too many people who comment here have lived or worked on a farm.

    We have the usual input from the fascist vegetarians who wish to dictate to others what they should and should not eat. The point in my earlier post is proven positive by those who make the usual statments demanding that “whole meat industry needs to be shut down”. They will use any excuse to do so.

    Most of the cattle from the Nth sent to Indo are free range healthy animals.
    But I myself prefer the original aussie free range meat roo, but I gather animal rights advocates would like to tell even Aboriginal aussies that they should not eat what they have since the dawn of time.

  • 33
    Meski
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Are you seriously suggesting, Lisa, that sheep and cattle have been here, and were being consumed by Aborigines since the dawn of time? That’s a fairly major re-write of history.

  • 34
    LisaCrago
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    But I myself prefer the original aussie free range meat

    roo,

    but I gather animal rights advocates would like to tell even Aboriginal aussies that they should not eat what they have since the dawn of time.”

    Maybe one should read…. and …. digest ….. before jumping in to post totally incorrect or outragously lame arguments; or not, as the case may be MESKI.

  • 35
    Meski
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Roo too, has not been around ‘since the dawn of time’ - want to try again, Lisa?

  • 36
    LisaCrago
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Meski, maybe you best take THAT argument up with some of our first australians or I know maybe give Richard Dawkins a call, he might be interested, I am not, as it has nothing what so ever to do with this story. Or maybe you could…

  • 37
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    LISACRAGO: Has Truth Hurts taken over your web site? Because your comments have become very scrambled. Absurdly so. Read some of your comments.

    1) Drugs are being sold to farmers to boost the bulk of their cattle. Do tell me? I didn’t know that at all, at all.
    2) Animal righters should be vegans.
    3) Vegans are fascists
    4) Vegans want all cattle farming to be prohibited.
    5) Being a first world country we should educate those heathen Indonesians into wanting chemical free beef.
    6) Cattle are more important than people as far as animal activists are concerned.
    7) Why is this so?
    8) No one at Crikey has ever lived on the land.

    Perhaps the more articulate the scribe the more likely he/she will be to stick to the point. ie They wont want to meander off topic, the way you do.

    Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can solve all the world’s problems. Therefore the people who wish that animals deserve a better death than the one presently available at the hands of Kosher slaughterers, Halal if you prefer should also stick to the point.

    Then comes a big song and dance routine about eating kangaroo. As if this is a whole new concept???

    I wouldn’t wish to tell Australian Aboriginals what to eat but I can carp about the way they treat sea animals. Up in the far north of Oz sea-going Aboriginals catch a live turtle and throw it on its back. Then they hack pieces of meat out of the living and helpless turtle.

    Perhaps-as you seem to have an affinity for the northern parts of this continent-you might care to tell them to desist from this stone age barbarianism.

  • 38
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Aboriginals

  • 39
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Indonesian

  • 40
    Posted Friday, 9 December 2011 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Kosher

  • 41
    LisaCrago
    Posted Sunday, 11 December 2011 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Oh dear!

    why thanks for rewriting my homework VA.
    But you for got to grade it correctly… lol.

    Maybe one should read…. and …. digest ….. before jumping in to post totally twisted points of view; or not, as the case may be VA.

    btw, at all turtle BBQs I have been to of course the animal is dead you crackpot.

  • 42
    Blaggers
    Posted Monday, 12 December 2011 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Hey LISACRAGO,

    You are hilarious!

    You keep making the point that:
    “Maybe one should read…. and …. digest ….. before jumping in to post totally twisted points of view”

    Yet make the follwing statement:
    “We have the usual input from the fascist vegetarians who wish to dictate to others what they should and should not eat. The point in my earlier post is proven positive by those who make the usual statments demanding that “whole meat industry needs to be shut down”. They will use any excuse to do so.”

    When what was written was:
    “The whole meat industry needs to be shut down.

    I’m not a vegan/vegetarian but have had stints of no meat and can say have never felt better.”

    The reason for making the point was that when we need to rely on antibiotics and hormones to keep the animals “healthy” then there is something systematically wrong with the whole industry.

    I agree with you in that we should be buying meat from organic/biodynamic meat producers - small farms where the animals are generally cared for and treated well. Or otherwise as you point out, eat meat from native source - like kangaroo.

  • 43
    Posted Monday, 12 December 2011 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    LISACRAGO: I’d be delighted to grade your comments. ‘F’ for fail comes to mind.

    I wasn’t talking about turtle BBQs. I was talking about people who trade in turtles. It’s against the law to treat animals badly. But since the cattle scandal in Indonesia, and the refusal of Muslim countries to stun the animal before killing it-all in the name of religion- we all know that creators of barbarianism can get away with doing anything. Most especially do governments give special privileges to minor parties-the people representing the Aboriginals have a lot to answer for. The ultimate shame of our governments is to capitulate to anyone waving the ‘Religion’ flag.

    I’m a crackpot for wanting to treat our animals with minimum pain? Then what does that make you? Turtle BBQs provide evidence that the turtles aren’t treated harshly when you haven’t even tried to find out what I’m on about?

    You sound like Minnie Mouse.

    Your squalid little post sounds like the petulance of a ten year child

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