tip off

State-by-state damage to Brand Labor

Despite the best efforts of a tax forum and media tail-chasing about the Labor leadership, this has been an unusually sedate week in federal politics.

This presumably can be put down to a national hangover after a long weekend that brought grand finals in both major football codes, together with a related consequence: Newspoll did not take the field over the weekend as per its usual schedule, thereby sparing the government its regular fortnightly morale blow. However, the polling gods found an alternative means to maintain the water torture Labor has suffered since early this year, courtesy of a Newspoll of state voting intention from Western Australia.

The kicker here was yet another primary vote figure with a two in front of it — 29%, to match the 26%, 28% and 27% Labor recorded in the most recent federal, Victorian and Queensland polls, and the 25.6% it was able to scratch together at the NSW election. The South Australian government was only able to escape the same fate by making it to 30%. Labor governments in Victoria and South Australia were performing roughly as badly following bank collapses at the turn of the 1990s, but the results federally and in NSW, Queensland and Western Australia are without precedent for Labor since Newspoll first opened for business nearly three decades ago.

The uniformity of the results has inspired talk of permanent damage to a “Labor brand”, a notion that presumes a common source to electoral effects at federal and state level. To consider the extent to which this is so we can turn to the archives of Newspoll, which has been publishing regular polling figures federally and for each mainland state since 1985. The chart below is based on quarterly voting intention in federal and state polling, the aggregated state result giving weight to each state’s figures in proportion to its population.

What emerges is a remarkable tendency for the two lines to move in synchronicity over the short term. However, a longer-term view reveals a series of distinct phases in the relationship between federal and state voting intention. For the first few years after 1986 there is a consistent gap in favour of federal Labor of about 4%. This vanishes in late 1990, when the federal Coalition under John Hewson begins to record consistently strong poll leads for the first time since the election of the Hawke government. This shift brings the two lines almost perfectly into line, where they will broadly remain until late 1999.

It is at this point that Labor’s state-level ascendancy in the 2000s becomes clearly established: Victorian and Queensland governments are in the first flush of their honeymoons, while the Carr government establishes a harder fought ascendancy in New South Wales. Labor thereafter remains stronger at state level until the federal party catches up on Kevin Rudd’s watch after December 2006.

The election of the Rudd government in November 2007 can be seen as initiating a new episode of alignment in federal and state fortunes, albeit one separated by a two-year gap. At state level, Labor’s fortunes immediately enter the decline that leads to its present all-time low; federally, the party at first scales new heights under Rudd before entering a precipitous descent at the start of 2010. The state figures meanwhile continue plunging at a similar clip, maintaining a constant gap between the two of roughly 5%.

One reading of this is that federal Labor began chasing state Labor’s tail as soon as the Rudd government’s honeymoon was over, and certainly the conventional wisdom would have it that exactly this happened in New South Wales. However, this seems to turn on its head the experience of the Howard years, when the consensus was that the Coalition’s dominance at federal level was damaging it in the states.

Either diagnosis seems unduly deterministic in any case. Labor’s current tail-spin is clearly better explained in terms of mutually reinforcing effects at federal and state level, caused in different ways by self-inflicted political difficulties and an unprecedented unalignment of federal and state electoral cycles.

61
  • 1
    Stevo the Working Twistie
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    We’ve had enough of them. All of them. The only reason the Coalition polls higher is either they are not in power yet, or haven’t had time to stuff thing up properly. Not a single one of our three major parties actually represents it’s constituency any more. Labor is estranged from the workers, Liberal from the true small-l liberal heartland and the Nats from the bush. Like it or not there will be a re-ordering of Australia’s political structure in the next generation or so. Bring it on.

  • 2
    Ruprecht
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    tl;dr

    weekly polls this far out from an election are not news — especially not #1 item news.

  • 3
    Michael
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    @RUPECHT

    No off course not, nothing to worry about here, just push on, same direction, same speed, step by step, inch by inch.
    In years to come kids will be asking “mummy, daddy, what’s an ALP?”

  • 4
    Steve Blume
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    mmm - you say
    “Labor thereafter remains stronger at state level until the federal party catches up on Kevin Rudd’s watch after December 2006”
    The federal party rise commenced in February 2005 shortly after Kim Beazley became Opposition Leader and stayed on a consistent rising trajectory right through until the 2007 election of Rudd. Not especially relevant to the comparison you are making, but let’s not re-write history to suggest a Rudd driven turnaround of Labor fortunes which did not exist. Julia Gillard’s popularity was strong through all three of her stints as Deputy Opposition Leader.

  • 5
    Peter Ormonde
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Ah yes “brand labor” … what a truly incisive concept … this marriage of marketing and politics… and, since Labor is a brand like any other, the solution itself should be derived from marketing yes? New, improved, now with extra integrity, new packaging… perhaps a miracle ingredient? Or a new leader, a new image, a different hairstyle, higher hemlines???? … let’s see how shallow and superficial we can make ourselves?

    I’ve spent a lot of my working life arguing with this sort of facile apolitical thinking - explaining to politicians that marketing has very very little to offer political parties… that sweeping generalisations do not provide any insights whatsoever into how to change those attitudes or what sort of policies are required to meet the specific needs and interests of those sections of the electorate that can be won.

    One of the characteristics of market researchers in their approach to politics is that the results of their questionnaires ( the averages, the generalisations and approximations) become the artifacts of discussion, that trends are imputed to them, that all other variables - such as local issues, history, policies and broader issues - such as economic conditions - are ignored and politics is reduced to “scores” - call them honeymoons say. And these scores, these artifacts of artifacts, ten times removed - are elevated, reified, deified as political laws, as yet more generalisations built upon generalities and these become the “science” of pollsters. Not too far removed from those ancients with expertise in reading the entrails of chooks.

    So we have “honeymoons” to explain apparent differences in popularity … influences are imputed - albeit two years removed …. my goodness me yes… It’s so clear to me now. It’s just how things are - it’s written in the polls.

    I am still waiting for a market researcher to ever make any serious suggestions about how to turn public opinion beyond the most superficial and shallow… that after all is what they deal in. Packaging and slogans. Welcome to 21C politics and its pundits. Welcome to it indeed. And hey - it’s INTEREST FREE … completely.

  • 6
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    The problem for Labor is they no longer represent the “workers” of Australia.

    Can you imagine a plumber, brickie or chippie being interested in a Carbon Tax, Gay Marriage or other fringe leftwing issues?

    Yet Labor continues to let themselves be hijacked by these leftwing groups. It may be the talk of the town around Canberra Latte Cafes’ but out here in middle Australia everyone’s interested in working hard, making a living and getting ahead in life.

    Which is where Labor has gone astray. The Libs are now much more representative for the working classes. Tax cuts, low interest rates and more money in their pockets(even if by that horrible “middle class welfare” Labor hates) then so be it… and they WILL vote with their wallets.

    The biggest impact you can make on Australians lives isn’t fringe leftwing ideological feel good nonsense, it’s putting more money in peoples pockets every week. This is something that will improve the lives of millions. This is something that will increase happiness in millions of homes.

    And thats why Labor has lost it’s way

  • 7
    klewso
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    On “chasing tail” - catch Tony Jones’ Lateline effort the other night, luring Oakeshott on to the show “to discuss the Tax Summit”, presumably - and for the last 4 minutes (of a fifteen and a half minute interview) proceded to chase him up and down a dry gully, trying to pin him down on whether “he’d support Rudd?”
    Oakeshott’s “silly game” summation, at one point, seemed to sum up this “media obsession” pretty well.
    And some people think Oakeshott’s a clown?

  • 8
    Son of foro
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    I’d like to do some state-by-state damage to people who use the term ‘Brand …’.

    Here’s The Spiff Skirts again! Huzzah! Low interest rates? If by ‘low’ you mean interest rates were lower during Howard’s last days as PM than during his last days as World’s Not Greatest Treasurer, then I guess you’re right.

    If you’re going to repeat Tony Abbott’s claims about interest rates always being lower under a Coalition government then you, sir, are as big a liar as Mr Abbott.

    And what’s more, you should admit it, if you have any decency left in you.

  • 9
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    trying to pin him down on whether “he’d support Rudd?”
    Oakeshott’s “silly game” summation, at one point, seemed to sum up this “media obsession” pretty well.
    And some people think Oakeshott’s a clown?”

    Actually the question was pretty straight forward.

    If Gillard was rolled and Rudd put back in the hot seat would Oakeshott support a Rudd Labor led government?

    It was a simple yes or no answer, but he kept dodging.

    Much like in At Home With Julia though what we ended up getting was a 3 hour comment on the workings of government in Canberra. Tony should have offered him a Soy Latte at the end.

  • 10
    GocomSys
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    @William Bowe, Another poll, yawn! Nothing better to do?

  • 11
    GocomSys
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    @TTH Would please kindly get stuffed? As useless as the polls! Thanks a lot.

  • 12
    SimsonMc
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    @ TTH
    I was interested in your post. This is not a criticism nor an attack but I am interested in your view and would love to get a discussion going. You mention that what people what is more money in their back pocket. I don’t dispute this. However, during Howard years (and Bettie, Carr and Co), the expectation gap between what the public expected and what government delivered became noticeable and really hasn’t dissipated since. The public has a certain expectation (and in fact this expectation is very high – especially compared to other countries) that hospitals, schools and public infrastructure is world class. However, people don’t want to pay taxes and as you put it, are more likely to vote for the Government that puts the most money in their back pocket.

    So how do you balance these competing priorities? The concept of accrual accounting was brought into Government to give a true indication of the costs to deliver services. It was the mid 90’s when most Government agencies done away with the old cash accounting, however even after all these years we still have not done anything with the glaringly obvious information that accrual accounting has provided and that is Departments don’t have enough money to fund the services that the public expect. Anyone in Government will tell you that they might as well have stuck with cash accounting because funding is decided on squeaky wheel politics and not about actual funding requirements.

    Now before anyone jumps in with the tried and trusted method of “sack public servants, government is inefficient, waste, etc” I would like to for you to consider the following points:

    Government Departments are inefficient but so too are large private organisations. I have worked and consulted for several and I can tell you that mining companies, banks and other large private organisations (remember with most Government Departments we are talking very large structures) have inefficiencies. And no matter how many times you downsize, restructure or implement new systems, there is always an inherent level of inefficiency that can’t be eliminated. And the bigger you are the bigger the level gets.

    Also remember not all Government inefficiency is bad and to a degree these inefficiencies actually benefits the private sector. At its most basic form, think of it this way. What would happen to many private organisations who survive or thrive off this inefficiency if Government actually because super efficient and no longer needed to outsource? Now I am not a public servant but I will disclose my conflict of interest as a consultant, I have in the past and will probably in the future benefit from these inefficiencies in both Government and the private sector. Again we also see this at play in the private sector. Due to their inefficiencies, it is much cheaper and easier to outsource to small organisations that to deal with the inefficiencies.

    So what are society’s expectations and how do we fund it? Because having the expectation that every service and product Government provides should be of a high standard doesn’t marry with the expectation that we should all pay far less tax. Even if you managed to eliminate many of the inefficiencies in Government, that is only going to get you part of the way. It certainly will not close the expectation gap, not by a long shot. As I pointed out before, you may eliminate the inefficiencies but then what do you do with that part of the economy that relied on Government to survive? Bear in mind that when you think about it, it is a massive part of the economy and these days you can’t outsource many parts of Government. Most of the goods and services that were attractive to private sector has already been palmed off.

  • 13
    GocomSys
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    @William Bowe, “State-by-state damage to Brand Labor”.

    Well done! Rub it in! Polls have become a self-fulfilling prophesy for a somnambulist public.
    Bad polls have assisted in removing two opposition leaders and installed the wrecker.
    Bad polls have helped to remove a sitting PM. What are your intentions now? Do you actually give a damn?
    I wonder can anybody tell me how many OPINION POLLSTERS are competing in the field at present?

    @PETER ORMONDE posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 2:12 pm
    You summed it up nicely!

    @William Bowe, suggest getting a real job.

  • 14
    davidk
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    At home with Julia a comment on the workings of government in Canberra! TTT your more deluded than I thought.

  • 15
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    However, during Howard years (and Bettie, Carr and Co), the expectation gap between what the public expected and what government delivered became noticeable and really hasn’t dissipated since. The public has a certain expectation (and in fact this expectation is very high – especially compared to other countries) that hospitals, schools and public infrastructure is world class. However, people don’t want to pay taxes and as you put it, are more likely to vote for the Government that puts the most money in their back pocket.”

    Absolutely. Even people such as myself can agree on having world class health, education, infrastructure and schools.

    The problem here is that governments don’t want to just spend on the basics, they want to spend on issues nobody cares about and that government shouldn’t be involved in. The governments prime objective to Australians and Australia is to run efficient basic services for the health and well being of it’s citizens, increase Australia’s wealth and protect our borders. Thats it. All this other silly nonesense has to go.

    And as to the Health, Education and Infrastructure… governments are absolutely terrified of reform. Literally terrified. It makes me laugh every time some hack whether it be from Labor or Liberal say “Oh our party is going to spend $XXX Million Dollars on a new hospital to fix the health system”.

    Is throwing an X amount of dollars the way to fix problems? I always thought you fixed problems by sorting out the issues. But all we get is a numbers game. Labor cares more because it’s designated $150 Million, but the Libs only $100 Mill. The new school gets $10 Mill from the Libs but only $5 Mill from Labor, etc etc etc.
    It’s so ridiculous.

    I’d be more impressed with a government that spends HALF as much as the other mob but gets the same results. Gee, now wouldn’t that be real reform?

    And to just show how gutless our pollies are, Kevin Rudd said he was going to have a referendum on a federal takeover of health. It would have probably been voted for the affirmative seeing as most states are useless with health, but what do we get instead? Some referendum nonsense about recognition of Aborigines as the first landholders in our constitution.

    By all means lets have the best health, education and infrastructure in the world but lets do it through reform, not more taxes.

  • 16
    CML
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    The major reason Labor is in this situation is because of an all embracing onslaught by the MSM - particularly Ltd. News. No government could possibly be as bad as the present one is portrayed. Of course, they haven’t helped themselves at times, with events like the idiotic removal of Kevin Rudd. Even John Howard admitted that Rudd would have won the 2010 election if he remained PM.
    Then there is the opposition - what a joke that lot are! It will be back to the 1950’s if Abbott becomes PM. And for all those people stupid enough to believe we won’t see another version of Workchoices, the rest of us will be ready to say I told you so. Abbott will not be able to resist the pressure from the heavies on his own side of politics for very long. They are already lining up to have their “slave-choices” returned to its rightful place. If he doesn’t do what the puppet masters want, he will be out on his ear in double quick time. That’s the reality.
    Now, if the citizenry are all going to vote for Abbott because he will get rid of Labor’s carbon pricing, then they should know that it is never going to happen. Certainly not in the near future, and by the time he tries it on, the world will have moved on and he will be exposed as the lunatic he really is. Personally, I would overwhelmingly trust the vast majority of the world’s scientists, rather than rAbbott. His answer to climate change is unworkable, very expensive to the taxpayer and will achieve nothing. All his rich mates will like it, but then they will not be paying for it - YOU WILL!
    As far as the state Labor governments are concerned - they seem to run in cycles. The Libs will get back in for awhile, then cut services, ignore infrastructure, give more money to their rich mates, private schools, private healthcare etc., until people wake up to themselves and realise Labor wasn’t all that bad. Then the cycle goes into reverse.
    The most important thing everyone needs to accept in this country is that to have good services for all (not just those who can afford them), someone needs to pay for them. We are not overtaxed in Australia, neither from personal nor business tax. It is not a matter of “Labor governments raise taxes and spend too much” while “Libs give tax cuts and cut spending”. Eventually under the latter scenario, someone has to get rid of the structural deficit in the budget, and pay out large sums of money to restore services and infrastructure which the Libs generally ignore while they are in government. Far from the Libs “fixing up Labor’s problems”, I would argue that it is the other way around.

  • 17
    Ron Paul 2012
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    I would never vote or Labor.

    For starters i don’t believe in their core values, its not so much their current crop of Members thats the issue, its their core beliefs. Contained in their party platform is the fundamental wrong.

    I dislike 3/4 of current Liberal Party policy as well as most current MP’s, but I can stick with the party, because their core belief’ system contained in their platform is great. Their execution and current crop of leaders is crap, but you hold hope that the next generation of Liberal Party members will return to what true Liberalism embodies, that of the Whig’s, of the Old Republican Party, the Party Menzies founded.

    Labor is not rotten at its core because a paper LTD says so or because a couple of bad eggs have trashed its reputation, after all every organisation has a few bad eggs. No Labor is rotton because its core beliefs, its very heart…is wrong.

    Put the best operatives you can find into seats, won’t make a lick of difference, if the framework you have is false, unethical and plain wrong.

  • 18
    Michael
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    @CML

    Big post! Big! And yet it took me a lot less time than it took you write your diatribe to get an insight into what a consummate “dick head” you are. Please don’t take that as an insult, I can do better if need be but for now “dick head” has an unbeatable succinctness.
    Please go back and re-read your post and I’m sure you will agree with me, give yourself an uppercut & gently ensconce yourself under your big, damp, rock.

  • 19
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    The major reason Labor is in this situation is because of an all embracing onslaught by the MSM - particularly Ltd. News.”

    Is the MSM to blame for Never-Ever Carbon Tax, East Timor, Malaysia, Pink Batts Bungle and the Live export ban stuff up?

    The leftwing media was constantly attacking Howard but I didn’t hear you complaining then.

    Of course the media attacks Labor, they are the ones in government. This is how it works.

    It will be back to the 1950’s if Abbott becomes PM.”

    What was wrong with Australia in the 1950’s? I heard it was quite nice.

    They are already lining up to have their “slave-choices” returned to its rightful place. If he doesn’t do what the puppet masters want, he will be out on his ear in double quick time. That’s the reality.”

    Yes and if he reintroduces Workchoices then the punters vote him out again. This is how it works. Much like promising never ever Carbon Tax and then introducing one means you deserve to be tossed out of power.

    {“Now, if the citizenry are all going to vote for Abbott because he will get rid of Labor’s carbon pricing, then they should know that it is never going to happen. “]

    PFFTTT. Oh so now it’s “don’t vote Libs cos they won’t be able to axe Gillards tax”. Come on mate, with a landslide looking likely the Carbon Tax is as good as gone, even if they don’t win a senate majority because Labor will be forced to vote for it’s removal. If Gillard wants to then play silly buggers then it will be double dissolution time and I bet Labor won’t want to go down that path.

    The most important thing everyone needs to accept in this country is that to have good services for all (not just those who can afford them), someone needs to pay for them.”

    And under leftwing Labor socialism it’s seemingly the rich that you want to pay for the lot.

    Look there is no problem with those making more money paying their fair share of tax, the problem is they are constantly under attack by Labors socialist agenda. Our income taxes are already focused so that those on higher wages pay higher taxes, so why then does Labor always penny pinch more and more from those making over $50K+?

    It’s like Labor hates successful people… they want to punish us for being successful and reward those who are lazy or unwilling to take the steps necessary in life to succeed. Governments should be rewarding success, not punishing it… but this Labor government HATES hard working, successful people.

  • 20
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Gocomsys:

    Well done! Rub it in! Polls have become a self-fulfilling prophesy for a somnambulist public.

    Maybe the public should wake up then.

    Bad polls have assisted in removing two opposition leaders and installed the wrecker. Bad polls have helped to remove a sitting PM.

    Bad polls don’t remove leaders. Politicians do.

    I wonder can anybody tell me how many OPINION POLLSTERS are competing in the field at present?

    Five.

  • 21
    drsmithy
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    What was wrong with Australia in the 1950’s? I heard it was quite nice.

    Yep. If you were white, heterosexual and male, it was awesome.

  • 22
    Michael
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    @DRSMITHY

    Precisely. And what was wrong with that princess?

  • 23
    CML
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    @ MICHAEL - When you start calling other people names, you have already lost the argument. This blog is open to all of us to have a civilised debate - you may have a different point of view, and I accept that. Why don’t you be a grown up and tell me where my points are incorrect? So far you seem hell bent on abusing everyone. Your last comment borders on the racist, and I suspect you were not around in the 1950’s, so you don’t know what you are talking about.

    @TTH - You may have heard about the 1950’s, but as someone who lived through it, I can tell you it wasn’t “quite nice”! I did say that the current government had made some mistakes, although I don’t agree that is the case with some of the issues you state. I wager the Labor party will NEVER vote to repeal the carbon tax legislation under any circumstances. Did you not hear the comments of a certain Mr. Carnegie at the Tax Forum? Himself a wealthy man, he believes all those who are rich should pay another 15% tax to contribute to societal needs. The man is a hero (even though it probably won’t happen)! Far as I’m concerned, it would be good if the wealthy paid the tax they should contribute. Most of them use every trick in the book to avoid their responsibilities in this area.

  • 24
    StrewthAlmighty
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    GoComSys - This series of postings makes it bleedingly obvious why you wish TTH would just go away. Perhaps you would have more success at achieving this objective if you had something to offer in response?

    The other point that gets lost in commentary on Labor’s performance is that they are up against an ordinary opposition. As Ron Paul points out - there is not much to like about the Liberal line up but people will vote for them anyway. People arent voting Liberal they are voting “not Labor”.

  • 25
    eric
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    TheTruthHurts: said

    Which is where Labor has gone astray. The Libs are now much more representative for the working classes. Tax cuts, low interest rates and more money in their pockets(even if by that horrible “middle class welfare” Labor hates) then so be it… and they WILL vote with their wallets.

    The biggest impact you can make on Australians lives isn’t fringe leftwing ideological feel good nonsense, it’s putting more money in peoples pockets every week. This is something that will improve the lives of millions. This is something that will increase happiness in millions of homes.”

    Yep you have it in one most Aussies are just plain selfish and greedy and its all about ME ME ME and stuff everyone else!

    Phoney Tony will be the perfect PM for this whingeing whining negative mob and by the end of his term in Govt the place will be well and truly rooted! George Bush jr anyone?

  • 26
    klewso
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    What is “the left wing media” and what were they constantly “attacking Howard” over?
    Any examples of just what “CML” was saying then?

  • 27
    Michael
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    @KLEWSO

    Left wing media”
    Media outlet where the majority of news reflects the view of the Left side of politics & where almost all opinion articles express a view from the Left side of Politics & where every single story without exception is Politically Correct.
    eg. The Age

  • 28
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Yep you have it in one most Aussies are just plain selfish and greedy and its all about ME ME ME and stuff everyone else! “

    Well it should be ME ME ME if it’s your money.

    Labor just don’t get it. Australians have become very wealthy the days of class warfare are over.

    Does Labor really think for example that say a Concreter who runs their own concrete business, took all the risk setting it up, works their tits off 60 Hours a week in back breaking work in the hot sun all day for a job and then makes $100K a year really “rich”? Really?

    Labor and it’s hacks try and make out there are all these “rich” people in suit’s sitting around in the office all day while the poor down trodden workers are down on the factory floor being whipped while they count the money. It’s just nonsense.

    Most “rich” people in Australia are tradies who work hard, small business owners and people who go work out in the middle of nowhere away from their families doing 12 Hour days and 84 Hour weeks.

    And the people who aren’t “rich” yet? The aspirationals. They don’t sit there looking up with contempt, they look up with desire. How can *I* get to be successful. What can *I* do to make it to the top.

    The days of poor have to stay poor and rich will always be rich is over. Anyone can make it, it just takes will.

  • 29
    drsmithy
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Australians have become very wealthy the days of class warfare are over.

    Australians are drowning in debt. All those “rich” folks with their new houses and cars are a couple of percent in increased interest rates from ruination.

    The wealth isn’t real, and a lot of people are going to learn that the hard way very soon.

  • 30
    GocomSys
    Posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    @WILLIAM BOWE posted Friday, 7 October 2011 at 7:01 pm

    DAMAGE to Brand XXXXX (The public is being hammered with negative headlines on a daily basis, especially by the “trash media”)

    Bad polls have ASSISTED in removing leaders (emphasis on “assisted”)
    Ongoing repetitions of polls are undermining, destabilising and are in fact a distraction from real issues and create simplified perceptions that are misleading. The largely ignorant and generally misinformed public being bombarded with this stuff unquestioningly swallows it.

    After many years of “brainwashing” unfortunately that’s the situation we find ourselves in.

    Weekly OPINION POLLS (good or bad) in an ever more hectic 24 hour news cycle are the last thing we need. Especially 2 years out from an election providing fodder for a feral opposition with a “dangerous” out of control leader.

  • 31
    geomac
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    I recall a time when all states and territories had Labor governments but a Liberal/National government in office federally. After Labor gained power from Howard our political pundits were predicting the death of the liberal party. I myself differed but thought the Nationals would go the way of the DLP. I was wrong on both counts because the libs became the DLP and the Nationals have come back from the brink.

  • 32
    John64
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    I still can’t get over the number of people who *actually*, -genuinely- believe that Labor are in the crap because News Ltd. ran a headline. If the Labor party stopped giving them such juicy headlines to run, we wouldn’t have this problem.

    Grocery Watch: We’ll spend $20M finding out it’s a bad idea and then just give up.

    Fuel Watch: See grocery watch.

    Pink Batts: We’ll spend $1 Billion installing them ->> We’ll spend another $1.5 Billion fixing up the ones we installed ->> We think the parable of the broken window is a good way to run Government programs.

    Health Reform: The buck stops with me. ->> If the state’s don’t get their act together, I’ll federalise it in 2009! ->> Oops, it’s 2009 already…

    Rudd vs Gillard: I’ll become a Space Astronaut before I take over the leadership from Kevin Rudd ->> A good Government has lost its way but I won’t tell you how exactly it has ->> I will now spend my time implementing Kevin Rudd’s National Broadband Network and taking credit for Kevin Rudd’s Stimulus Package which saved us from America’s GFC.

    Carbon Tax: There will be none ->> Ok we will put a price on carbon ->> It isn’t a tax ->> Okay, it is a tax but you get compensated and the Evil Mr Abbbott will rip your hard earned compo away, how vile of him!

    Asylum Seekers: We won’t send them to countries that aren’t signatories to the UNHCR ->> We’ll send them to East Timor ->> East Timor doesn’t want them so we’ll send them to Malaysia (a non-UNHCR country) ->> Our Lawyer Prime Minister who’s apparently some kind of good negotiator can’t negotiate a legally binding agreement ->> It’s all Tony Abbott’s fault because he didn’t approve of us sending them to a non-UNHCR country (you know, because supporting Government is what Opposition’s should be doing!).

    Some people here really think News Ltd are responsible for all of that?

  • 33
    Michael
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    @CML
    I’m not arguing with you old feller, I’m not even attempting to have discourse with you, you’re too much a moron for one to bother. I genuinely try to insult you as best I can within the bounds of Queens English as a means of releasing the angst I feel for uneducated, illiterate, wannabe Left wing morons like you. At least the black skivi inner city, latte sipping wowsers know how to properly articulate their weird views. You on the other hand, only know how to put hot air to paper in a mangled format.

  • 34
    GocomSys
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    JOHN64 posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 1:31 am

    It is a fact of life that we find it easy to recall NEGATIVE events. It is much harder and it takes EFFORT to focus on the POSITIVES.

    You are proving this very point. You are effortlessly rattling off all the NEGATIVES. Have you considered that finding solutions to complex problems isn’t easy and takes determination. And yes, constantly emphasising the NEGATIVES does not help in the process.

  • 35
    GocomSys
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    MICHAEL posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 7:52 am

    You proved my point. Feel better now?

  • 36
    Michael
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    @GEOCOMSYS

    Now that you mention it, yes, much much better. Isn’t that funny?

  • 37
    Peter Ormonde
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    No John - it’s not that the meeja is responsible for those things … they are responsible for the fact that you “know” about them, and that you think they are important, and that you do not know about other things (the good stuff) which gets a par on page 37 if at all.

    But it’s not really the meeja’s fault… all their bright-eyed ambitious scribblers and mouthers are itching for a scoop, a scandal, to score a hit on someone …. not really the media at all anymore.

    This week I accidentally found myself watching - looking at- A Current Affair… a deeply insightful piece about how “illegal” refugees were being given cigarettes - funded by the taxpayer while they were in our 5 star concentration camps…. and everyone they vox-popped siad how terrible, shocking and outrageous it all was.

    Trite, visceral and deeply, deeply wrong factually and socially. But getting it right, investigating, questioning and checking facts are just silly old-fashioned ideas. This is about whipping up hysteria and campaigning on ignorance and the irrational. The last thing these meeja outlets are interested in is developing an informed and educated audience. It is sinister and hateful stuff. It elevates the shallow and superficial to high art.

    And that is what the meeja does - on refugees, on governments, on the poor, on the unemployed, on single parents, foreigners and those who they can kick with impunity. .. this week’s target of our public hate.

  • 38
    Michael
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    @PORMOND
    “And that is what the meeja does - on refugees, on governments, on the poor, on the unemployed, on single parents, foreigners and those who they can kick with impunity. .. this  week’s target of our public hate.”

    And yet the vast majority just love the honest “meeja”. I entirely accept your comments with regard to those scoundrels from Fairfax, ABC etc. Not an honest bone amongst them. But then again is there anything more pleasant than opening a crisp new morning Daily Telegraph or The Australian whilst enjoying a fresh cuppa coffee & croissant and reading nothing but common sense from Andrew, Piers. Dennis, Greg, Robert & Ray. Thank god for News Ltd!

  • 39
    John64
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    @GOCOMSYS & PETER: So what are the positives that are being missed then?

  • 40
    klewso
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    You’re lucky, we can only dream about having two papers up here in Queensland. The one we’re blessed with, with the way it spins, frames and predigests the “news” for our consumption, has got us thinking Rudd “is the only politician with a bad temper”. That he was “the only one with dodgy mates like Brian Burke”. And who can forget “Utegate” and the “Grech-Lewis-Abetz-Turnbull daisy chain”?
    That “every cent spent on Gillard’s education revolution” was “a waste of money”, and that Garrett was guilty of “industrial manslaughter” (while people had their minds taken off a “Cousin Jethro” playing “Cowboys as Fine Ants Monsters”, or whatever that was). And, from the “evidence” it presents, that “climate change is crap” – while it editorialises that it is really important – just like “Rupert Says” it is.

    What was “the leftwing media constantly attacking Howard (or his legacy?)” over?
    Things like his “non-core promises” and his record on those? And what’s this obsession with “Gillard’s lie about a carbon tax” – something to do with her inability to match his tally? I do wish they’d give her a break, after all he had almost 12 years practice at obfuscation and prevarication, to master that dark art - she’s still learning.
    Or his “ministerial code of conduct”, bottled for us voters - as an “Elect Me elixir” - to have us think he was actually going to “clean up government after Keating’s wanton excesses”? The time and effort it took to get him to implement that “code” against errant ministers (like Short, Gibson, Woods, Prosser, Sharp, Jull, McGauran in those first couple of years – not Moore and Perrin, or even Reith)? Then making Reith and Abbott “Leader of the House”. A lot like one of those PCP thingys we often hear and see waved about in defence?
    The GST – a “mandate based on losing the primary, 2pp and states”, in that “referendum election”?
    “Children Overboard”/”Tampa”? “Iraq : WMDs/Saddam and his terrorist mates”?
    That boat people outnumber “plane people” overrunning the country – and they’re all “financial refugees”.
    I’ve heard about that sort of thing. How dare “the left wing media” - or anyone else - attack him, his record or the party’s, on trivialities like that. The nit-pickers, anything for a story and a beat-off.

    But at least, it seems, a lot “on the Left” can see, admit and protest when they see “their side” slipping in what they’d come to accept as party values - even enough to vote for the “none of the above party”, till they get themselves sorted and back to basics?

  • 41
    TheTruthHurts
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Bad polls have ASSISTED in removing leaders”

    This is rubbish.

    Rudd from memory had ONE newspoll where his TPP was at 48%.

    The rest were either above 50% or level at 50%.

    The Labor Hacks keep trying to change history and say the polls were really bad for Rudd, they had to roll him and it’s simply not true.

    The reality is that Labor is full of power brokers who didn’t like Rudd at all and when his numbers fell from record highs used any excuse to topple him. We saw Paul Howes the union heavy on TV the night of the rolling saying this had to be done. Paul Howes is not an elected representative of the Labor Party so how the hell was he and others selecting the leadership?

    The sacking of Rudd will be remembered as one of the biggest bastard acts of Australian Politics. Labor supporters can stop talking about the Whitlam sacking now… because this sacking was by one was by your own party for union heavies and faceless men request.

  • 42
    GocomSys
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    MICHAEL posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:40 am

    Thank god for News Ltd! Not only “imaginary” but also “invisible” friends? Way to go, mate!
    Enjoy your weekend and relax, relax, relax……..

  • 43
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    With Rudd de-stabalising Labor it will not help them.

    With Rudd, its all about ego.

    He will challenge Gillard this year, why:

    1. He wants to be PM again in 2011, so his record will say PM 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 and ….

    2. He wants to be the PM when Obama and Queen are here.

    3. He wants to exact revenge on the plotters.

    Its a given

  • 44
    Peter Ormonde
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    John64…

    Rather than list off a string … I’ll let them do it:

    http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/our-key-achievements/

    Oh sure that’s just propaganda - but of course that’s what it all is… so here’s some from the other side.

    Michael:

    How do you get a crisp Ltd News paper in the mornings? … mine always arrive limp, soggy and dripping with venom.

    Suzanne …

    It is interesting how the venal attribute venal motives to others isn’t it?

    You forgot No 4 … He really liked living at the Lodge.

    No 5. … He wants the extra money.

    Destabilised” woman … not de-stabalised.

    Do people actually pay you for your advice? Should be a law. I think there is actually.

  • 45
    guytaur
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    The damage done to Labor is absurdly easy to explain. There are two issues which highlight this fact. One that the PM has given voice to herself. More listening to people and less ignoring them.
    So we know people vote for Labor based on their perceived values. This is officially expressed in the party platform. Going against this by the pollies on privatisation in NSW was what got Labor into suh trouble. We see that today with the Victorian Conference restating the platform on gays getting married and Boat People.
    Labor polls will remain low while the pollies continue to go against the platform.
    Going against the platform means you are not listening to the Labor people.
    Until you get this basic core fact back no changing the rules is going to do anything. All they do is enable politicians to distract fom the fact they are not listening to the rank and file. Good changes by the way. Just not enough when you ignore your base and become Coalition Lite.

  • 46
    Peter Ormonde
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Hey troofie …

    Stop it … I almost peed myself … your demanding edjerkashun reforms had me rolling about. But this one really threatened to unleash the bladder:

    Anyone can make it, it just takes will.” Yep - a big slice out of a Will from Dad or Uncle Albert is a definite help. I guess you’re proof positive that anyone can be rich, huh - with enough will. Living the dream eh Troofie? Just wonderful.

    Stop it or I’ll start correcting your grammar and spelling again.

  • 47
    StrewthAlmighty
    Posted Saturday, 8 October 2011 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Yep. Gay marriage and onshore processing are what Labor need to get their poll results firing!!

    I can see plenty of those who are currently intending to vote Coalition switching back immediately once they know these are back on the agenda!!

    Perversely they would probably get a bit more respect for having the guts to actually stand on their platform but the only votes they stand to gain are Greens votes which they already have on preference anyway.

  • 48
    Peter Ormonde
    Posted Sunday, 9 October 2011 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    No, actually Strewthie, the best thing the ALP has going for it at the moment is one Anthony Abbott… couldn’t have scripted him better myself…. more coverage, more sound bites, and especially more in-depth interviews Tony, Q&A sessions that sort of thing … you go for it mate! Get yourself out there … strut your stuff.

  • 49
    Tim nash
    Posted Sunday, 9 October 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Maybe people just are not interested in politics anymore, liberal or labor, greens or anyone else.

    We are universally worn down.

  • 50
    Suzanne Blake
    Posted Sunday, 9 October 2011 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    @ Peter Ormonde

    the best thing the ALP has going for it at the moment is one Anthony Abbott”

    Well Labor are in deep shite then aren’t they?

Womens Agenda

loading...

Smart Company

loading...

StartupSmart

loading...

Property Observer

loading...