Independents’ day makes life difficult
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There’s a unity ticket in Canberra. This interregnum will last some little while. The Prime Minister and Tony Abbott and the independents are all insistent that there’ll be no result for several days at least. There is muttered talk of “weeks”. With nothing much to report, and the nation seemingly grandly indifferent to the spot in which it has left its elected representatives, the press gallery has taken to obsessing over vote counts. Some, in the circumstances, decidedly mild criticisms within Labor of the campaign have been elevated to the status of civil war (you wonder how today’s media would have covered the Labor split in the ’50s). Every word from the independents is carefully analysed by journalists, who dissect them like ancient priests considering entrails in an effort to divine coming events. Rob Oakeshott’s thought bubble about a unity government sent journalists haring off in all directions (although, speaking ex cathedra today, Michelle Grattan pronounced it “naive”). The best moment was journalists reporting Tony Abbott’s embrace of a “kinder, gentler polity” — it was the remark he made just before launching an attack on Labor and the Greens — with straight faces. Luckily there’s Bob Katter, for whom the phrase “good copy” might have been invented. Thank goodness for the Member for Kennedy, and his hat, which is surely about to get its own reality TV show. Having been ignored, or indeed treated as a rather lengthy joke by the media until now, Katter is well within his rights to be bemused about his suddenly elevated media profile and the media’s rather inconsistent attention to the issues he regards as important. The urge to call the winner first, to project vote trends, to extrapolate from past policy which way the independents will lean, is strong, and wholly unnecessary. The AEC will determine the winners and losers in the doubtful seats in good time. Some, please note, are likely to end up in litigation. The five — as seems likely — independents will negotiate a deal with one side or the other. With whom is not clear at this point, probably not even to them, although I’ve yet to see any compelling reasons why they wouldn’t back the Coalition, given their backgrounds. Meanwhile, the actual business of government ticks over. Australians go about their business, oblivious to the allegedly dire impacts of “uncertainty” from the interregnum. How much do they care about politics? They were monumentally disengaged during the campaign, and there was a big rise in what appeared to be deliberate informal votes, a direct act of rebellion against a preferential voting system that delivers your democratic choice to parties you may well loathe. It’s a tough call for the political media, which has difficulty enough hanging on to what mainstream media space and resources it has now. Any recognition that Australians are uninterested in what they report is dangerous in a media environment where resources are diminishing all the time. That, perhaps, is why journalists have tried to maintain the breathless campaign pace of what Jay Rosen calls “horse race journalism” into the interregnum, when literally nothing is happening except the slow, methodical counting of votes and some pre-negotiation positioning by the key players. Perhaps some outlets can get some pollsters out in the field and give us an opinion poll to discuss. The time might more usefully be spent considering just why the electorate behaved as it did. There’s an assumption that a new election would put it all to rights, and somehow fix the mistake voters made on Saturday by providing a majority government. What’s to say that’s what would happen? Voters are clearly unhappy with Australian politics. Why would that be about to change? |
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86 Comments
Judging on what I heard at the press club today the 3 indies are in no mood to go back to the polls. Time for the media to grow up and become relevant in our society instead of the prima donnas and big noters they would like to be.
I suspect another election would see even more Greens and independents elected.
yes, yes, yes. The way the media and many in politics are reacting to Oakeshott’s suggestion of actually working together for the good of the country, its people and future generations is revealing. Anyone who dismisses it as naive clearly can’t get their mind out of the partisan gutter, no matter how smart they are. They are, many of them, clearly too much “insiders” and not enough able to think about a different way of living and dealing with each other. Just imagine how much progress we could make on climate change, poverty, environmental degradation and general civic wellbeing if those who purport to represent us actually experimented with cooperation for a change? it’s the only thing that we’ve never tried. It’s embarrassing how shocked and outraged Australian commentators are by a little virtue, a little humility and a “representative” actually attempting to “represent.” In this country, if you’re not a cynical hack, you get treated like an idiot.
RElevant media? David you jest? It’s nothing but sport for the bored, lazy and ignorant prats who don’t read reports, analyse anything or even think beyond the bubble.
I don’t know how many have ever worked in the “new parliament house” but the press gallery have an area up in an aerie that is completely divorced from the real world.
It requires a cut lunch to get there from most offices and they all lose their marbles when it is hot or cold.
And the aircon, when not stuffed with bogon moths, is hotter than hades.
I see BK is channeling The Black Knight again.
“’Tis but a scratch”
Labor has lost at least 13 seats.
“Voters are clearly unhappy with Australian politics”.
Of course.
The fact they have asked for COSTINGS from both parties, from treasury should show up BIG holes in SOME costings.
“Why”? Because that’s what “Murdoch” and the rest of the media “want”?
“although I’ve yet to see any compelling reasons why they wouldn’t back the Coalition, given their backgrounds.
That is pathetic
There are a number of reasons to suggest that they wont back the coalition, however there is one that is compelling. It is called self interest and you bernard should know it is always running. And, given that you ignore it bernard says a lot about your political commentary.
Each independent has a personal priority in siding with a STABLE government. How stable would a coalition government with a Green senate be? For the fiberals there would be a massive desire to be rid of the independents hamstringing their every move in the lower house and the Greens blocking their policies in the senate. For Labor this would not be such a handicap as the Greens and the independents support their views on the NBN and the mining tax to name but two issues of interest.
In addition there are select quotes from Windsor in regard to an idiot in the senate and being told what to do by newspapers. Katter and his mates in the nationals and the Greens member who would be definitely putting his voters offside if he sided with the fiberals. Pretty weak article bernard. Try a bit harder next time
I have no first hand knowledge of the Greens national situation, but I’d have thought another election might be exhausting but beneficial for the Greens.
The party must be reasonably cashed up. It wouldn’t have to fight a Senate campaign this time - just the House of Reps where it could target some of the more winnable seats.
More credible independents might also come out of the woodwork around the country… inspired by Oakshott & co.
Gambling that another election will return a decisive result is a fair sized gamble for both major parties.
@Syd
Tony Abbott will be looking to get back to the polls asap. He believes the political momentum is in his favor and the “Labor Civil War” narrative currently being created by the media will blend perfectly with the impending NSW state electoral bloodbath to further entrench his power. He also knows a Green controlled Senate all make it hard enough to get his policy platform up without having to deal on a daily basis with independents like Windsor and Oakeshot, who support the profits base mining tax, the NBN, a price on carbon and see his position on asylum seekers as unnecessary, expensive and ultimately socially divisive. Tony Abbott knows that he will get none of his policies in these areas easily past the Senate once the Greens are in control next July. Thus the pressure on him to get back to the polls before then will be immense.
In contrast, Labour will have no wish to go to the polls again before the imminent New South Wales and Queensland state electoral bloodbaths. It’s also abundantly clear that they need to put the Rudd removal behind them, heal the division within the party and rebuild their brand nationally before they put themselves at the mercy of the people again.
Given everything the independents have been saying over recent days, theirdecision on who they will back should be fairly easy for everyone except that loveable mad hatter Bob Katter. He has serious differences with the other independents on issues such as climate change, but I suspect that in the end his deep loathing of the Nationals for selling out rural Australia and his desire to maximise the period for which the independents will control the house, he will also see merit in reaching an accommodation with Julia Gillard long before he risks getting into bed with toxic Tony. Above all else, he knows that once he ties his fate having to trust the Coalition, the nationals will be working to undermine him at every turn with a view to taking back his seat at the next election
Well said acid muse, IMHO crikey would be better served employing you than the author of this drivel
The sooner we get back to the polls the better, this has no hope of working.
@TwoBob
Appreciate the compliment but in all fairness to Bernard, his election coverage has generally been of a much higher journalistic standard than most of his over paid peers in the mainstream media.
As a professional journalist, Bernard is also far less free to speak his mind than I am - unless of course, he finds the prospect of having the right-wing noise machine up his ass like a ferret down a rabbit hole browbeating him for perceived left-wing bias.
Given how successfully this particularly ugly stick has been used to beat so many of the ABC’s journalistic elite into relative compliance over recent years, it is certainly not a fate I would wish upon Bernard nor any other member of the Crikey team
LYNE (Oakeshott) 35,008; DENISON (Wilkie) 12,414; NEW ENGLAND (Windsor) 50,328; MELBOURNE (Bandt) 26,420; KENNEDY (Katter) 31,806.
Total votes for independents = 155,976
Total informal votes = 629,384
More people voted informally than they did for the (potentially) five people who will hold the nation’s future in balance.
Oakshott - idealistic wide eyed………..hopeless.
Wilkie - dunno
Windsor - sounds ok………..at times.
Bandt - humorless anally retentive brat, appears to be a weasel a perfect match for weasel Gillard
Katter - ok in the pub but thats about it.
Australia moving forward.
Oakshott - considerate, ethical, innovative
Wilkie - ethical
Windsor - thoughtful, considerate, ethical, articulate
Bandt - ethical
Katter - honest, straight forward,
Australia is unquestionably better server by these men than by either of the two rightard main stream parties.
John64
Sounds to me like you might like some electoral reform. I suggest proportional representation in the lower house. What do you reckon?
I am with you Two Bob , i pushed the ” Keep them A or B party honest in the senate ” by voting Green’s. It worked with QLD getting its 1st Greens Senator in Larissa Waters. Had some old fart , say to me “I won’t vote Greens , because they Took my Guns ? Told him that the Liberal Party did that, his wife agreed and got another shooter say that was true and changed his mind and voted Green. There should be more Independents in power , makes life hard for the Coal Parties to write the ETS .
Glenn’s just upset none of them are named Abbott, poor dear.
Acidic muse
As a professional journalist, Bernard is also far less free to speak his mind than I am
I thought crikey and bernard were already the target of a ugly stick, right-wing noise machine. And that crikey was focussed on honest non partisan open media. For those reasons I do expect better than the past few articles from bernard. If we cant get that from crikey then crikey might as well close up shop now because it will soon go the same way of the other media outlets. ie down the drain
Abbott may think the momentum is with him. Difficult to judge.
I’m in one Queensland electorate that changed to the Libs last Saturday.
I suspect Labor could win it back at an election in a few months time, if it dropped some of its more absurd and offensive policies that pissed off a lot of progressives and chose a good candidate this time round.
Labor’s campaign here was so bad it was as though it wanted to lose. Sure, most Green preferences went back to them and Labor nearly made it back - but they gave the progressives no reason to go out and pursuade other people to shift their vote, like we did in 2007. All the boisterous enthusiasm of the campaign was on the right wing side of politics.
In summary, Labor could win this seat back without too much problem IMO. Abbott shouldn’t count on it at all. Then again, both parties could lose it to a credible progressive independent or even the Greens running a really strong campaign
I agree with twobob and harrybelbarry, I think having more independents and Greens in the mix is exactly what Australian democracy needs.
The two major parties have stopped being accountable to the electrorate and playing to the lowest common denominator in regard to people’s self interests and ignorance to retain power and then proceeding to bend over backwards to business at the expense of the public good (workchoices, CPRS, mining tax).
This has got us where we are today. The MSM have also played their part in all this but as Bernard has rightly pointed out, the seemingly unaccountable fourth estate seems not to have taken the hint and has barely stopped to take breath and analyse their part in this, instead they are just taking potshots at people for being “naive”. Hardly playing to people’s better nature or impulses and I think actually that is what most people might actually want now.
I hope this little experiment with democracy in the House of Reps works well and we start to see more plurality and diversity not less. Also loosening the party straight jacket (particularly for ALP) MPs, and allowing them to cross the floor more would also lead to a more mature democracy.
The mutual love-in among the Three Amigos in various TV interviews lately has been stomach churning. The Mad Katter blew his cover as a “moderate” last night when he screamed at the media scrum.
The prospect of the Mad Monk teaming up with the Mad Katter is alarming.
@Syd
Julia Gillard just made a very firm public commitment to govern for a full term if she gets the independants support, so I think I am on the money here.
Even more interestingly, at the same press conference, Dennis Shanahan was heard foaming at the mouth over Gillard’s request to Tony Abbott for an amendment to caretaker conventions so that the independents can see the full Treasury analysis of both major parties campaign commitments. Seemingly the right-wing noise machine is soiling itself over the prospect that the Independents may now get some truly unbiased advice from Treasury on Joe Hockey’s rubbery figures before they make their final commitment.
@Socratease
It stands to reason that Bob Katter and probably Andrew Wilkie will always remain a risk of morphing into loose cannons regardless of whoever eventually forms thegovernment.
I am currently taking solace in the fact that as long as Labor secure Coorangamite and/or Hasluck, they will be able to command a majority on the floor of the house with just the support of Oakeshot Windsor and Bandt.
Regardless, our next parliament will undoubtedly on occasion look like the Saturday night lotto draw with Bob Katter regularly playing the part of a highly colourful supplementary number
The media was back to being the dogs they were during the election campaign. Shanahan is still acting as if the PM should bow and scrape before his every question, his tone of voice and demeanor was disgraceful during the Press Conference. As for the hag from the Age, she has lost it. I am amazed JG has kept her cool for so long.
Twobob — electoral reform? too right, I’ll give you electoral reform by removing compulsory voting as a start. Australia, in its usual arrogant way, thinks we’re cleverer than most other countries by compelling everyone who meets the basic criteria to vote. As a result we get many people voting with truly shocking and IMO wilful ignorance of rational thought, politics, democracy, voting systems and, last but not least, party policies and principles. The Latham solution is no answer as these people will think they may as well cast a vote once they’ve had to show up at the polling booth. I’d bet that the great majority of them (maybe 40% of total eligible voters) would welcome the opportunity to forget about voting. As a result the quality of votes cast would be immensely improved. Would probably improve the quality of focus group input as well!
And there’s Abbott on TV tonight fronting the Three Amigos PM Interview Panel declaring “I love the bush”.
As the kids would say: Desperate much!
I can’t wait for the Pacific Solution to be re-introduced.
The leftie brigade will then have to make up a mirade of excuses on why the boat numbers evaporated just like they did in 2002 after the start of the first Pacific Solution.
This will be the last and final time the Pacific Solution is touched. A permanent boatpeople processing centre will be built on Nauru, and the Labor Party wont dare touch it even if they win government with a 20 foot barge pole for at least 20 years.
“And there’s Abbott on TV tonight fronting the Three Amigos PM Interview Panel declaring “I love the bush”. “
Yes poor bugger when it comes to grovelling Gillard has got him completely outclassed, she’ll smarmy her way through this no problem.
Libs will have to pick up the pieces when it all comes undone.
Perhaps the public (other than a few bloggers) understand that sometimes good things come to those who wait.
Perhaps the press gallery could tear their eyes away from the riveting sight of watching the Hasluck tally to increment, long enough to ask the major parties just how they intend to convince the independents that they are worthy to govern. And keep asking them, until they drop the advertising language and give replies in English.
That is, apart from Abbott discovering his warm and cuddly side, good old Truss learning the new trick of shutting his mouth when he has nothing helpful to say, and Gillard confronting the revelation that not everyone outside the kitchen cabinet is a robot created for repeating yea or nay on command.
Bernard says “I’ve yet to see any compelling reasons why they wouldn’t back the Coalition, given their backgrounds.” Clearly, Bernard still doesn’t get it - the 3 incumbent independents left the Nationals for a reason (or reasons), and the disaffection and distrust has only grown as the infuriated Nationals treated the independents with contempt. Nor is Bernard alone in assuming that their 3 seats are naturally conservative - Katter corrected Kerry O’Brien on this - Kennedy has only ever been held by Labor, or a Katter.
This whole debate has solidified my suspicions - that the commentariat, like the rest of suburban Australia, doesn’t know or understand the bush, or ultimately give a rat’s arse about the problems we face. But then, there are 2 kinds of Australians - 21.5 million suburbanites,and .5 million bushies - we are too few to worry about.
Furthermore, how likely is it that Bandt and Wilkie would support Abbott? Surely they are more likely to back Labor, and Gillard would then need 2 of the other 3. Surely that’s a more likely scenario.
I think that the people are quite happy to have the politicians talking to each other as reasonable people. The nastiness of the campaign was not good and certainly did nothing to foster good decisions.
The press is in financial trouble and it is working hard to create divisions. Changing a government is always good for sales. The press being based in the city only worried about city matters especially in Sydney and Brisbane. People were not convinced by the policies. Those who could think worried. The current impasse pleases many because people aren’t being nasty and rude to each other.
Ha Yes We Canberra -
“The Greens - the wankers choice since 1972”
Great show.
“Oakshott - idealistic wide eyed………..hopeless.”
Oh. Right.
Anyways, wonk tragics like me and probably most on here have as much info as everyone else has. imho the result will be what it is, and that’s what we will have to work with.
But speculation (yumyum). So many possibilities.
This wait is not really that good for those who live off needing power, or those hunting for news around needing power NOW.
Knowing that it took the Belgians c.10 months to get a government going (and just fell down this year), then hey, I don’t care.
I have noticed that a certain type of person who is stating (as fact presumably) that “Abbott will win, and that’s the way it will be”. Sort of universalist thinking, in a ‘it is written’. Usually short and brusque. Then rubbishing everyone else. I really wonder where the brain gets wired to think like that. I wonder if they have ever had a scientific study done on them.
Now, I prefer those who look at any opportunity and see there are really, many choices. Like these:
- the wait creates tensions in both major parties. But the tensions in the Libs over the next few years will be more magnified than the ALP. Their wet and drys are a bit more divergent than the ALPs. Who knows (like I dont…) what could happen to the Libs (split????). This sort of situation hasn’t happened since endofthewar.
- the ascendancy of the Greens has I think, positively, jumped the shark, or jumped the canopy (haha). State elections in Vic and NSW look like replicating (to me) the result in Melbourne. Many more state seats in the same region as the seat of federal Melbourne.
Also, notice the doubling of the votes in inner city seats + the country seats. I think this is one for the Greens to lose. Of course, the tensions in their party (ie fundys vs realos in the German Greens that ended in 1989 due to fundys phucking up) may bring out some really fullon fighting.
But the Greens may now attract some really high calibre people. The ones who come when the groundwork has been laid and they are assured of more success. The professional ones who take over from the activists. Assuring a fight.
I forgot last elections result for the Greens in Melbourne. I’ll guess 23%? Now, 36%. Sydney, Bris and Grayndler?….all around 25%. Then the other seats at 16%. Now, of course, 3 years is a long time, but assuming that the major parties don’t listen, their rise will continue. Depending on how *smart* they are and how *maturely* they handle new pressures (of course!), we will see if they can make it past this challenge.
I believe they can. They have critical mass on their side. Human emotions and powerplays aside, I think they can pull this off. I am very happy for this, and happy for the challenge ahead.
Besides, any worry that they have no experience in federal govt (eg handling the economy) never worried voters in electing new govts. Otherwise, it would be the same party in permanently. That’s our bad version of democracy for you.
I can see the indies and Greens working together very well (could be wrong) to amass a new powerbase. That’s what it’s all about, and the rightwingers know it (Murdoch etc). That’s what is stunning them and getting them huffed up. Which really, I dunno, start thinking of interesting things guys.
I am glad both parties (both right wing, really) are getting this. The result of the system.
@Thetruthhurts: obviously the mantra of ‘Stop the boats’ didn’t resonate, or the Libs would have clearly won. Fact is, there aren’t enough to bother worrying about: give them asylum, and send them back if and when… sorry it didn’t go your way, but there you are.
@thetruth… the ALP would have won, with a remarkably similar policy proposed, as well. As an issue, it became a non-issue.
The Australian is off on one of its ridiculous dummy spits. Because Abbott won’t get untrammelled power, or any power at all, it is now pushing for an early election on the assumption that their man will win hands down.
He won’t though, after his woefully inadequate press conference this evening. Isn’t it about time that Australia noticed this man is not up to the job?
@David
Abbotts second dummy spit press conference in three days was pricesless … we are finally starting to see the real Toxic Tony at last
What was it he was telling us only yesterday about how being cooperative and collegial is encoded in the Coaltion’s DNA? .. lol
Murdochs hacks obviously missed the Independent saying they are only interested in dealing with a new government that is serious about serving a full three year term ( to which Gillard has already committed). Otherwise they would not be calling for the second early election Toxic Tony has to pretend he doesn’t want if he hopes to cut a deal with the three Muskateers
We dont call these guys wing nuts for nothing
The house of cards is falling down , Abbott new nick name should be Forest Gump . His minders at the press conference were heard to say “Run Gump Run ” after two hard to answer questions. He left quickly and was heard to say “I got to find Bubba ” Hockey. The Chasers show tonight was a ripper and great songs and really stuck the boot into sky’s coverage of the election night , drop outs long enough to leave the studio and make a cuppa and return to the Chasers show and not miss anything. These independents are making the Libs look very average and voters might like more of them at the next election. The PM has come out and said she’s ok with fixed term and said she would name a date too. Pushing for Truth in Advertising will kill the Liberals negative ads and Labor’s.
Abbott: “It is very difficult for the public service to understand the Coalition policy”
Out of his own mouth!
@Socratease
The moment he said he started babbling about “training the Iraqi Army” in Afganistan at this mornings press conference, I knew he was off his meds
Isn’t it fabulous to finally have the Real Tony Abbott back in town .. the man who bought us clangers like”paid parental leave - over my dead body” and that ol’ family favorite “climate change is crap”
Let’s face it, you can only keep a real man of action medicated for so long.
None of us can deny he was much more entertaining he before Brian Loughnane started spiking his Red Bull with Ritalin and teaching him to repeat mindless slogans like a prozac addled parrot
It’s so refreshing to see Tony finally speaking his own rather disturbed mind .. he certainly makes Bob Katter look better by the moment
The brawling pugilist is never far under the surface. His statement about the spirit of Parliament having been needlessly confrontational made me spit my coffee out.
So…how about them mine workers in Chile …hey?
Katter a.k.a. Barney Rubble - yabba dabba do!
on the ability to correctly answer three SIMPLE questions
that should say
Some predictions for the immediate future:
1. Gillard will announce that she does not want to lead a (slightly) left of centre government but wants to govern straight down the middle with an emphasis on building consensus. She will try to define as much Labor policy as possible as middle ground but will make modifications to meet that middle ground promise.
2. She will promise a government that is more actively listening to citizens. A new office (perhaps within the PM’s department) will be set up to actively canvass citizen’s ideas for better government. It will have its own website for discussion of these ideas.
3. A new plan and authority for regional development and infrastructure will be announced.
4. Rudd will be made Minister for Bob Katter. Seriously though he may be given a co-ordinating/liaison role with the independents.
What do you think?
Abbott’s probably thinking it’s better to hand it over to Gillard rather then pander to the independents.
Don’t blame him, Gillard couldn’t govern as it was it will be hilarious to see her crash and burn while dealing with this lot AND her union bosses.
Sell your shares and investment property Gillard will lead us off the edge, is that going forward ?
@David
Who will form a minority government now hinges completely on how successfully the Coalition and the right-wing noise machines’ can bludgeon the Independents into compliance with the threat of a possible backlash in their own electorates.
I think Tony Abbott is seriously “misunderestimating” the people who voted for these independents capacity to understand that a Gillard government willing to work openly, honestly and constructively with independents in the interests of rural Australia will deliver them superior outcomes
Of course, we also know he long and tragic history of the coalition taking rural is voters for granted is the very thing that got these three independents elected in the first place
“a Gillard government willing to work openly, honestly and constructively with independents in the interests of rural Australia will deliver them superior outcomes”
Unbelievable……….do you really believe that ?
Gillard couldn’t do that with Rudd by her side how do you think any of that will change, she’s a BS artist full of grandiose ideas and absolutely no ability THATS the reason people wont accept her, don’t forget Libs got the primary vote by a long margin.
Bur id Abbott has to deal with Katter and the others he just might let it go to Gillard, Abbott wont take any shit but Gillard wallows it from within her own party and a bit more wont bother her.
Abbott this morning on AM raved and truely lived up to his Mad Monk title. The PM is trying to wreck the Westminster system, the Govt is involved in a criminal act, these are the actions of a desperate PM trying to cling to power…the bastard is nuts.
SMH an hour ago…….
Labor prospects are improving in two crucial seats, tipping the balance back in the party’s favour again to obtain the highest number of seats.
Veteran federal Labor MP Arch Bevis is getting closer to his coalition rival in the seat of Brisbane.
With almost 75 per cent of the vote counted, Mr Bevis was 382 votes behind the Liberal National Party’s Teresa Gambaro on a two-party preferred basis.
But based on the flow of postal and other outstanding votes, Mr Bevis appears likely to win.
Labor needs about 52.5 per cent of the remaining votes and the current flow is about 56 per cent.
The Victorian seat of Corangamite is also likely to be a Labor hold.
Labor’s Darren Cheeseman is 573 votes ahead of the Liberals’ Sarah Henderson with 85 per cent of the vote counted.
@Glenn
Is your surname Beck or Milne by any chance?
Try inserting a bit of fact and/or analysis into your character assassination of any non-“liberal” politician. You are sounding a little unbalanced.
lindsayb - go ahead give us some “analysis” I’m sure it will be very interesting.
My comments on Gillard and her performance are fact, it’s on the record,
school halls
insulation
grocery watch
fuel watch
cash for clunkers has vanished already I think
150 person think tank on climate change
and so on -
Give it a rest this woman and her band of fools can deliver NOTHING except spin and abject failure.
Analyse that.
Tony’s returning to type.
What we’re getting now is a re-emergence of the tough guy tony, impatient, totally out of his depth, loaded up from MSM fawning over his ‘discipline ’ during the campaign with a strong sense of entitlement . Clearly he knows that whatever happens the attack dogs in the right wing media are goint to prosecute his case.
The libs i suspect are willing to let labor form govt confident that News limited and will just continue with their slanging campaign againt labor. Believe you me, with a labor minority govt and a greens senate News limited is gonna go feral. Either the Labor party are going to get some balls and start arguing the case against these lackeys of the corporate sector or else, as with recent times, they’re going to get slammed.
If labor do form a minority govt they have to throw out the Bitar handbook, start talking in plain language, boots and all arguing their case and calling the media campaign against them for what it is. This is an opportunity for them to regain some crediblity and its not going to come from passively ‘managing’ the situation.
Its on the ‘record’ is it glen. Had no idea you were such a player!
Glen, no one gives a sh.t about the turgid rubbish you keep dumping on this blog.
Glenn
How about we analyse;
WMD
Iraq War
Afganistan
food security
ethical treatment of refugees
cosy deals for coal miners over the interests of farmers
overallocation of water resources, leading to degradation of river systems, small farms being abandoned, and small towns dying.
Neglect of infrastructure including public transport
Pandering to the interests of lobby groups over citizens
complete inaction on moving to a carbon neutral economy against the wishes of 75% of Australians and 95% of scientists.
continuing chipping of our native forests making it impossible for the plantation farmers to make money from planting trees
Regardless of your “wanker” comment, the party that best addresses these and many other issues are the Greens, which may go some way to explaining their increasing popularity.
Time to stop reading the Australian as gospel truth.
lindsayb - it’s idealistic fools like you the would leave Australia unprotected and open to be taken over by whoever, we need the US and if we dont support them they wont support us.
I don’t think Garret can scare anyone off even with his dancing,
You pathetic weaklings put this country at risk and the “wanker” comment was from Chaser, very apt and spot on and you fit the profile perfectly.
“News limited and will just continue with their slanging campaign against labor”
You just don’t get it, Labor DESERVE to be called for what they are, incompetent tossers, who have no ability whatsoever beyond spin and scare campaigns.
Keep em coming Glen, you’ve got us here in stitches….
Glenn
You really are quite angry about something. Nice that you know me well enough to get started on the character assassination already.
Re our national defense.
The USA will only protect us if it is in their interests to do so, and if you have seen where their economy is headed, they may be severely resource limited in the immedate future in any case.
We need to stop framing our defence policy around US interests, and be prepared to take care of ourselves.
Take your head out from where the sun don’t shine, and stop repeating trite truisms from the MSM.
lindsayb - I think you’re the one with his head up his a***
You think we can defend ourselves with a few old aircraft and what is it ? one carrier, you’re in la la land.
And I don’t think they’ll not come to our assistence because they cant afford the fuel to get here. ROFL
Wake up to yourself, you think the Greens would help ? they would stop their warcraft entering our waters until there was an environmental study.
You can thank the US that you arent working in the fields and speaking Japanese.
Glenn
Nice. I’m a pathetic weakling for suggesting that we learn to defend ourselves, and your preferred defence strategy is to kiss USA arse and hope for the best? Logical and Incisive. Are you sure you don’t work for Fox News?
@ Glenn: “You can thank the US that you arent working in the fields and speaking Japanese.”
There’s an old saying that the first person to mention Adolf Hitler in an argument has officially lost it. Glenn’s comment above comes close enough!
“learn to defend ourselves” lindsayb - you’re kidding we cant afford to have an defense force big enough to do the job, do you want neuclear weapons too ? they cost a bit.
These are the people we’re up against, you reckon the Greens or Labor could handle it ?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/glance/846159/dangerous-putin-crossbows-whale
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/26/2993865.htm?
We are sitting ducks without the USA.
Having said that I don’t like our boys getting killed in a foreign land, it’s just bloody terrible,
I wonder why they just dont use bombs to flush the Taliban out.
FdL83 - try saying that when we’re invaded and they’re knocking on your door.
Can’t happen ?
Yes it can.
Glenn - wrong article on Crikey. I think you’re looking for the review of “Tomorrow, When The War Began”
Doesn’t ANZUS only require signataries to “consult” with each other in relation to defence matters of mutual importance? That’s a genuine question by the way….I remember reading a good analysis of it in the book ‘Vietnam - The Australian War’ by Paul Ham but can’t recall the exact details.
This is getting way off topic, suffice to say we need friends for our security and to pretend we don’t is naive in the extreme.
@Glenn, Lets’ start with your first two items: the BER and home insulation.
Orgil found the BER was well run and did it’s job well. Yes, there was waste but that was because of the speed of the rollout. That was also the reason there wasn’t as much consultation as there should have been. What the Libs don’t want people to acknowledge is that the programme was to stimulate the economy first and replace building stock second. If it had been the other way around the “waste” argument would carry some weight. And as many have said, what would have been the waste if we’d gone into recession?
As far as home insulation goes, what happened was terrible no doubt. However, prior to the programme we had 68000 home insulated per year with around 80 fires occurring. After, we had 1,100,000 homes insulated and 200 fires. Those 200 fires are distressing for those affected, but overall the number of fires went down. And the problems were with the private contractors not the government - i.e. the sort of people Abbott want to roll out the NBN, etc.
I don’t trust Abbott because he can pick out figures out of context and play on the stupidity of people who are incapable of doing the maths.
Gillard hasn’t done a great job, but I would argue her greatest failing is in selling Labor’s positives.
Finally, could we stop with the “knifing of Rudd” rubbish. Rudd has many skills, but collegial leadership is not one of them. Once the party realised that they fixed it. If Rudd hadn’t brought it on himself, his demise would have dragged out far longer. Everyone was feed up with his leadership and they fixed it. There is some who would argue his gall bladder could have made him even more irritable.
My “what if speculation” … if Labor had used Rudd’s health as the reason him standing down and Gillard becoming PM. What would the election figures in Qld have been like?
AuFozzy - $700,000 for a shed is an indication of the lack of supervision that was the hallmark of this project.
It’s unforgivable that this Govt allowed that to happen.
Insulation same thing with deaths involved.
Now I didn’t make this up the press were full of it and you can’t claim the hundreds of articles about this were all distorted.
“And the problems were with the private contractors not the government “
Who appointed and paid the contractors ?
Knifing of Rudd is a term widely used because of the way he was axed and he was axed, it was unfair and unwarranted especially as he was replaced by someone infinitely more irritating, you notice how the polls swung back to Labor when he stepped in to help.
We need someone strong in Govt, Abbott’s not perfect but he’ll get the job done, Gillard & Co just won’t, they’re not up to it as the past 3 years have shown.
Mods - why is my post of 12:55 still awaitng moderation ? it’s relevant to the discussion as it evolved
@Glen…you are very fortunate its only one under moderation…the nonsense you have been spouting would make a true blue Lib squirm in embarrassment
David - if I want your opinion I’ll yank on the hem of your skirt.
Glenn
you are obviously lonely and logical argument is not your strong point. Perhaps you should go down to the pub and have a few quiet ones. Try not to insult people you don’t know. Make some friends.
Looks like Hasluck has fallen to the Libs and Galaxy poll shows the Electorates of the Independents prefer the Libs by a large margin so step aside Labor and let a real team take over.
Hanson’s offer to Gillard of a job in her fish and chip shop has been withdrawn as even though she has the right voice and mentality she just cant be trusted with the till (and don’t we know it)
lindsayb - I only insult those that insult me first - just because I do it better than them doesn’t make me the aggressor.
Guys, with the comment
“David - if I want your opinion I’ll yank on the hem of your skirt.”
comment, I would class him as a troll.
Possibly, 19, unwarranted exhibition of fear of homosexuality or cross-dresssing at least; the anti-intellectual discussion points/ crass one-liners showing someone not at all stable or taunting; the non-listening to the posts of adults of all political leanings; constant posting.
I’d say, let go of this waster-of-our-time. Don’t feed the troll as they say in the world of the net. Let’s go back to real discussion of the political situation, no matter what your leanings are. Any intellectual discussion, no matter where it comes from, is good because good discussion gets ya thinking.
Which, going by Glenn’s comments, you are unlikely to end up with that result.
Or keep responding to him. He’ll love it.
Oh Glen meant to thankyou for the loan of the skirt, suuuuuuuuper
@ Glenn’s 12:55 post. You’re becoming increasingly hysterical.
1. Putin shot a whale with a crossbow, so we should be afraid of him?
2. Did you notice the quotation marks around the words “brink of war” in the title of the second article? They were the words of the Deputy Leader of DPR Korea, not the journalist’s. That sort of posturing by Kim Jong Il is, unfortunately, commonplace.
And with regards to your previous comment about how we’d all be speaking Japanese and working in fields if it wasn’t for the US……you mean the Americans wouldn’t have come to our rescue and liberated us from the dastardly Japanese after they had invaded us?
happyez - your idea of REAL political discussion involves Labor loving, or you get put down and abused, well I dont take it Igive it back so if you cant take it don’t dish it out.
@HAPPYEZ
I’m with you. No more taking the bait from me.
FdL83 - You just don’t understand so refrain from commenting, you just disgrace yourself.
happyez
i concur, but would also add feeble minded, intellectually dishonest, and waste of oxygen to the troll description
Like I said if you can’t take it don’t dish it out, name just one instance where I threw the first insult.
No you can’t .
Are we forgetting that Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter were already MP’s BEFORE the election? All this about the public rejecting the main two parties is crap. Even if Wilkie gets up in Denison that will leave 145/150 seats belonging to the ALP or the Coalition.
Thats 96.67% of available seats going to the major parties.
Idiots.
“Chicolini come up here, i want to scare the cabinet”