LIVEBLOG: Election 2010 debate, now with added Masterchef
|
It’s the one and only leaders’ debate of the election this Sunday, so join the Crikey team from 6:30pm onwards to talks all things Tony, Julia and the worm. Afterwards, we will shamelessly turn over to the MasterChef finale. It’s the night of nights for wonks and cravats alike. |
|
|
|
37 Comments
I’m not watching – who wants to watch an hour of “we hate darkies so much, we’re gunna…” and “no, we hate darkies even more, and we’re gunna…” and “no, we hated them first” and “no, we hated them first…” and “let’s talk, but not about this, or this, or that, or that…”
A lowest common denominator dirge of soundbites – some phony, most empty.
Presentation
She is smooth as runny honey- leaving bloko for dead.
Content
Vacuous crap.
When did Australian political leaders start every sentence with I I I- we happened to WE WE WE
Is this not a team game?
@ Sunil - well said my friend.
We can say goodbye to any action on climate change for the term of the next govt. Both parties will continue to ignore the ever louder warnings from the world’s leading climate scientists.
Regardless of who gets into power, those policies will continue to be driven by the fossil fuel industry. Our children and their children will suffer the consequences.
I must admit I didn’t bother to watch it either. As Bob Dylan said “I used to care but things have changed”.
While the coalition is bandying statistics around, how come no one has raised the fact that since the 2nd word war the Coalition have been elected to government from opposition three times and two times have taken the country to war after misleading the public as to the reason (or lying depending on how you look at it).
Getting down to things that matter: Labor has had more than 3 years to get things right and all they’ve done is put us in deep debt. Julia has big plans but nothing to show for it. She says we’ll see big changes in 2013. She will have been long forgotten by then. What is she doing now. That is what’s important. As for the idea of her moving into the Lodge with her boyfriend; that is almost unthinkable. A man who just a few months ago was selling shampoo products out of the boot of his car, according to the SMH or The Australian yesterday. Wake up Australia. Your complacency is going to send this country down the gurgler.
Julia Gillard absolutely wiped the floor with poor Tony on both substance and presentation…it was actually sad to watch him wallowing in a sea of negativity like that, constantly railing against her slogans when his own responses were stcked high with his various “Action Man” slogans
It’s a sad reflection on the quality of political commentary in this country that so many of the pundits are playing safe and calling it a draw
Of course, making this election seem as close as possible is in the commercial interest of most larger media organisations, A tightly contested election not only maximises the political advertising spend they get to feast upon but also guarantees larger audience as our obsessively voyeuristic population watches on in white knuckled excitement.
Can see why Barbie is called “Barbie.”
Julia is a pragmatist. Abbot an opportunist.
A plague on both their houses.
Australia needs leadership, statesmanship.
None in sight.
I am unable to trust Tony Abbott to speak with world leaders on subjects such as peace in Afganastan.
Trevor M.
I watched the version with the worm and while the sex split on Abbott was expected, I was surprised at how much Gillard split the vote by sex. A couple of times one of the leaders spoke directly after the other and the reversal of the female and male poli-graphs was striking.
Both Gillard and Abbott have abondoned Sydney South West their own Electoral Perial.
As Wattle Grove residents we are deeply concerned by this proposal for the equivalent of a Port Botany in our backyards. This will destroy our lives, families and small children - who along with many others, have to use puffers sometimes when they have colds.
As was published in a Liverpool newspaper on the 18th November 2009, an Infrastructure Australia senior staffer has confirmed that the proposed Moorebank intermodal freight terminal will be the Largest in Australia.
Michael Deegan, infrastructure co-ordinator for the national body, told a Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport luncheon in November 2009 that the complex would include at least two rail spurs which would connect to the Southern Sydney Freight Line by a new bridge over the Georges River.
We came to Wattle Grove to settle down for good with each other and our young kids have been born here as well.
Our concerns include:
- Environmental. Pollution of having constant 24 hour, 7 days a week
semi-trailers spewing diesel emissions into Liverpool which is basically a valley for pollution to pond in. This is why Liverpool is called the Asthma capital of Sydney.
- Noise. We, along with almost every other resident, live in a brick veneer
house. The noise from the semitrailers and trains cannot be blocked out by normal housing construction. Houses in Port Botany are designed to be noise resistant. Wattle Grove is an English village style tranquil area with Beautiful lake views!
- Traffic. We are a close knit village style community. Outside of Wattle
Grove major roads are unable to cope with the current levels of congestion.
During peak hour narrow windy Nuwarra road is almost at a standstill currently. The M5 is often at a standstill during my long journey to work at Hurstville. Heathcote road and the Hume highway in particular are likewise in the same predicament. Putting an extra 1.5 Million semi-trailers on the roads per year (1 truck every 30 seconds) will destroy our Communities. This supports the politically unpopular policy of expanding Bankstown airport.
- Plummeting property prices. Like many others in the area, I also have an
investment property which is a lifeline to pay our bills and give us some future security. Landing this thing in our backyard will destroy us financially.
- Light Spill will drive us crazy as we try to sleep at night.
- Why has the government “rubber stamped” this project prior to
consultation with residents and an environmental impact statement?
- SYDNEY’S southwest will experience the highest growth of all the city’s
regions by 2036, “The Sydney Towards 2036 population report” of the State Planning Department predicts. But with such dense population growth, how can they place the Moorebank Intermodal in the middle of it? Health, safety, noise, pollution, light spill, traffic - with 1 extra semitrailer movement
every 30 seconds - sounds impossible doesn’t it? (see
http://liverpool-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/liverpool-to-be-a-major-destination/).
- As this will also require freight rail, this is also a State issue.
- Economic. Having an Intermodal at Moorebank makes no business sense as its
far too close to Port Botany and puts a lot of trucks on the road - it should be in a more central location like Eastern creek which will minimise the amount of trucks on the road and reduce pollution. Hopefully, state and federal governments will also see the Economic, Environmental and Political wisdom in moving the Intermodal to Eastern Creek.
The Moorebank (Wattle Grove) intermodal will damage the lives of families in South West Sydney.
I thought both Tony and Julia had strong and weak moments, and that is what debating is about.
Gillard spoke convincingly when addressing questions about Industrial relations and the GFC, Abbott spoke well when adressing the issues of population, border protection and the parental leave scheme.
Gillard looked very uncomfortable when asked about how many warnings she gave Kevin Rudd ( answer none! ) and Abbott looked uncomfortable adressing the Work Choices attack.
I thought Abbott outpointed Gillard and I note that Laurie Oakes, though critical of both speakers, also thought Abbott won.
Its a long way to go in this election and Abbott’s point about first term governments usually running on “their record” but this government seeking to avoid discussion of just that, presumably because they have spent the past few weeks rubbishing Kevin Rudd, will resonate.
Queensland, WA and western Sydney is where this election is really going to be decided and I dont think Gillard will cut through, partly because Labor in both states, especially NSW, is so bad, people, as a journalist wrote recently, are waiting to “nuke” the Labor party.
In the recent Penrith by election in Western Sydney, there was a 25% swing away from Labor.
Australia’s public debt is irrelevent. By public debt per % GDP we rank 108th in the world at 17% in 2009.
If we add $40 billion of stimulus package then maybe we are up to 22%, still ranked only about 100.
See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
Abbott did not implode and disgrace himself but the worms figured him out. It’s as if the worms had asked themselves a series of questions namely:
How can you complain about debt without acknowledging that it was used to deal with the GFC and that it saved us from a recession. (This applies to uyo as well Barbie)
How can you talk about responsible economic management when his policies would have given us a recession which we did not have to have that would have meant business failures, higher unemployment, higher welfare payments while tax receipts from companies and individuals were falling.
How can you talk about responsible economic management when $300 m of the savings you claim will be for money that would only be spent if the mining tax is implemented, a tax you say you will repeal
How can you complain about higher taxes when your policies will mean a 2.7% higher company tax.
How can you complain about a lack of leadership on climate change when you stopped the ETS
How can you seriously complain about how Rudd was treated when you knifed your own leader in the process of delaying the ETS
How can you talk about wasteful spending when you intend to gift $75k of parental leave to people on $150k.
And so on and so on
Well Tabbott made himself appear amateurish, vapid, and callow. A complete and utter hayseed. Oink oink!
But he does beg the question as to the class of person who is given a Rhodes scholarship in the modern world.
There was a moment when he worked out someone’s mistake with a fraction in a mini second.
Julia Gillard is a paradox. By some weird piece of osmosis-given her self-proclaimed working class values- she seems to present herself as a gracious performer. Albeit none too trusty.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to run into her on a dark night-she is quite ruthless, I think.
Full face to the camera she is a remarkably good looking woman. I kept imagining her as one of Henry VIII’s wives. She would look fantastic in a wimple.
The content of this great debate was a great catastrophe. I am not one bit wiser for having watched two mediocre politicians bore me to death.
That’s three political Parties I won’t be voting for.
I agree with Gavin Moodie. Although we didn’t see how large the male/female split actually was in real terms, the way the two worms flipped as soon as the speakers changed was incredibly consistent.
I guess we’ve been hearing that polling has been showing differences in male/female attitudes to Julia Gillard, but the way the reaction of the women and men as soon as Tony Abbott started speaking was also almost primal. If any station in the US had been game to do a black/white worm split during the last US election debates, arguably they might have seen a similar trend. Do we have a significant level of unresolved issues about women as leaders in Australia, or are the guys identifying with Kevin Rudd?
Bit sad that the worms were more interesting (and revealing) than anything the contenders had to say, however!
How is it that Abbott and Gillard have managed to con the Australian people into thinking that the arrival by boat of 3500 asylum seekers is an issue of such threat and moment to our country that it justifies billions- yes billions when you add up “border security” detention centres from one isolated end of the country to the next; jepordizing our relationship with both our poorest and our most populous neighbours and breutally abusing already abused men women and children?
How can this be?
What idiots are we to let them get away with no mention of the Murray River; the future water supply to many towns, public transport, mental health care, the uneven distribution of employment not to mention a viable plan to reduce our carbon emissions and all the instability of climate conditions that these are incurring.
What is going on here? Who will tell these fools that they have no clothes?
How anyone could see that the debate as having Julia Gilliard “wiping the floor” with Tony Abbott is a mystery and says more about the alliegances of the writers. I felt that the overridding comments of those on ABC commentary team were more accurate that is, no-one scored a killer blow, no-one won as such and it was 50/50.
Virtually every comment made by both Julia and Tony could have been debated further let’s face it but neither did perceivably better than the other.
Agree with your comment Pamela but in one “debate” of only 60 min the amount of subject material has to be limited.
Poor as this is, it is at least only a slight improvement of the usual appearance in a hot house situation of a press conference where nothing, no real insight is achieved. Eg Julia’s conference hijacked by Laurie Oakes question re Rudd resignation agreement and Tony’s continued harrassment at news pressers on the question of Workchoices. Possibly further debates held on a wider range of issues might shed a little more.
Personally, I can’t believe anyone would give up their time on a Sunday evening (or ever) to watch these two ‘leaders’ debate. What were you hoping to learn?
she should stop waving her hands around
@PAMELA - Why didn’t someone ask Abbott how much his govt’s so called solution re asylum seekers, cost the taxpayers in compensation payments? For instance - Shayan Badraie sued the Howard Govt and those in charge of both Woomera Detention Centre and Villawood over their abject and disgraceful treatment of him as a little tiny boy of 4-6 yrs of age? He won the case, and Court costs were against the govt - the total sum? $5.5million? Then there’s the resolved? unresolved? cases of Cornelia Rau and Vivien Salon Alvarez? What is the total figure in these cases? Then, there’s the approximate 200 cases recognised by the Ombudsman who were treated in an unjust and appalling manner. Now, let’s add to this, the at least $1.5billion of the Pacific solution; keeping ini mind, that those who were left to rot on Naura, ultimately ended up living in Australia - why? they were found to be in genuine fear for their lives?
It is a sad indictment on the ALP that, instead of engaging the people in the real story, the truth about asylum seekers, they are so gutless, as to revert to the manner in which they behaved in 2001. My mind just goes into shut down combined with anger, disgust and repulsion, when they join the racist and revolting people in the Coalition on this issue. For what? How many ignorant and hateful peoples’ votes do they want to keep? Whatever happened to integrity, humanity and honesty? Those arriving by boat make up less than 5% of those seeking asylum. How long will it take the ALP to ‘grow a brain of integrity’?
What I also noticed starkly tonight, was the omission of the other two publicly acknowledged political parties - the Nationals and the Greens. I’m certainly not a supporter of the national party, but they are recognised as part of the coalition, and The Greens are the only real opposition to both the Coalition and the ALP. They deserved to have their representative in the debate tonight. Then it would’ve been interesting! This americanism of our political system is most disturbing! If we really believe in democracy, we believe that all political parties have the right to inclusion - we don’t do that, and so we’re fakes!
Abbott showed constraint tonight, but I have no doubt, that if he’s elected, the people of this country will find out just how destructive an element he can be! That thought makes me shudder!
The last thing I need is to get anywhere near worms (hate the pills), so avoided the debate.
Makes no difference anyway: Julia by 17 seats.
All the “competition” is media-driven and Abbott will prove to be a wonderful post-Turnbull fillip for rusted on Tories - until the actual election. He is unelectable.
Hopefully in future Bob Brown will also be given a seat at the debates. Look how much difference it has made in the UK since the Lib-Dems got a look-in. We deserve that, not the Greens are a much bigger force than the Nats as the third political force.
Really interested in the ansers to LIZ45 on total setupcost of Howard solution, airfares, compensation and court costs, naval/defence expenditure and for a minute fraction of tota intake - total cost and per personl. And percentages of boat people vis air arrivals on forged pasports and those accepted vis rejected? Why cant we process the boat people in indonesia and just fly them accross, putting the people smugglers out of the equation?? Isnt this an embassy function?
Andy
I agree that both parties’ attempts to stop the boats are very expensive. But they and it seems key parts of the electorate believe that this is an issue of principle that should be pursued regardless of cost.
Gavin , it is also true that more than 50% of Australians believe that boat people comprise 50% of our migrant intake. People believe what they are told particularly if it plays into cultivated prejudices. (psst Boat arrivals are about 1%)
Why are our political leaders not giving them the facts so that their beliefs can be evidence based rather than more akin to cargo cult mentalities?
Why must this country be lead by the ill-informed beliefs and limited knowledge of “ordinary people”- what is wrong with talented, clever, gifted extraordinary people capable of providing innovative clever solutions to our problems.
Since when have “ordinary people” assumed the status of GODS to be obeyed at all costs no matter how stupid, narrow,bigoted , illconceived and just plain wrong their beliefs may be.
I am not saying that ALL ORDINARY PEOPLE have these characteristics- in fact I do not know who these “ordinary people” are or indeed if I am one of these “ordinary people”. How does one become one of these “ordinary people” ?
Maybe I want to be part of this precious group so that politicians will listen to me and take my concerns seriously?
The PM made some fun of ‘moving forward’. Thank the Lord. ‘Drilling right down’ was the new phrase of the night: from the PM not the OL! Didn’t notice at the time but this morning’s SMH front page (photographer Glen McCurtayne) makes clear that the PM has had her front teeth fixed. Sometime in the last couple of weeks. Makes her steely calm and her time management even more mind boggling. Hope she got the Medibank Private rebate. Apart from the sensitive lighting and the blue/purple backdrop the PM’s lectern was a centimetre higher than that of the OL. Couldn’t decide if it was a hindrance or not. The PM’s gestures were a tad generalised and occasionally bigger than the point being made required. The OL seemed to be keeping his kayaking gestures to a minimum. But one of the truly interesting discoveries of the night was that Malcolm Farr of the Daily Beast drinks Crown Lager. Only an ABC Camera person (and director) could linger there. Tony Burke plonked in front of the Press Club white wine fridge was a wee bit distracting but what the hell. A mere detail. Was that a Lark Hill Riesling to the left on the the middle shelf? Five weeks to go with no more debates?
@ANDY - The figures that I gave for the Nauru ‘solution’ was only monies spent on that place. The cost of using the Navy etc by Howard was a further billion or so. Add to this the court cases of those asylum seekers who persued their case in the Federal Court, after being denied asylum via Review Tribunal hearings, and govt rule - the Badraie family were forced to take this action. This was apart from the damages case for the destruction of the phsyical and mental health of a dear little boy. This little boy was almost in a catatonic state when he left Villawood, and was so traumatised by what he saw and heard(suicide attempts, violence etc, also by guards?) that when he, his little sister accompanied their mother to welcome their father out of detention, Shayan stayed in the car, on the floor, under a blanket - shaking!
The cost of keeping a person for one day on Christmas Island is over $1,000 - cost per day at Villawood Detention Centre is approximately $260 per day. The cost of living in the community is cheaper still. Parts of Christmas Island sound more like Goublurn maximum security jail to me, where Ivan Milat and the vicious gang rapists are held! Hardly a place to house traumatised people, who’ve committed no crime! Then there was the young man who was detained on Manus Island - he ended up being the only one there apart from the guards and a cat? It cost millions to keep him there - I think for 6 years or more! People receive similar or a lesser sentence for drink driving involving death - multiple deaths? Not my idea of justice!
As PAMELA correctly points out - the people are ‘concerned’ about asylum seekers(only those who arrive by boat though) because they’re ‘drip fed’ lies and bulls**t on a daily basis. I’ve said before, that Kevin Rudd and now Julia Gillard should’ve made an address to the nation months ago, pointing out the lying rubbish of the Coalition, the Pauline Hanson-ites, and the grotty msm who know the truth but have an agenda to demean already marginalised and traumatised people.
At any time there could be between 40-60,000 people in Australia without a current visa. There is no hysteria about them. Nobody suggests that the police and military should conduct mass raids around cities and towns on a regular basis to ‘weed them out’?
A few years ago it became apparent, that security at the major airports was sloppy - to say the least. In Sydney, a man was killed in a very public place, even though there were circumstances that should’ve made security aware, and the subsequent death perhaps could’ve been avoided! Amazing! If the major parties are so ‘keen’ re our security by maintaining “strong border protection”, how much protection is there really? What about major ports such as Port Kembla, which now receives motor vehicles 24 hrs per day; many of which are then transported to Sydney. Howard cut back monies re these accesses to this country - how much is spent on this security now?
I strongly assert, that their interest in “strong border protection” is a dog-whistle to ‘keeping out’ asylum seekers who arrive by boat?
Indonesia is not a signatory to the Migration Act, and also have not agreed to the stipulations on the Declaration of Human Rights nor the Rights of the Child. They have a shocking history of abuse(East Timor etc) and even their treatment of their own citizens leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the asylum seekers who’ve recently arrived in Australia, had already been designated as ‘genuine’ asylum seekers - they were just left to rot in Indonesia. To think that our taxes prop up any of those horrific jails in Indonesia, known as ‘detention centres’ fills me with shame.
If this country thinks it’s OK to lock up people who’ve committed no crime, including children, women, and the elderly, then we should cease raving on about how we believe in a fair go - these actions are the exact opposite of that ideal! If we allow women and kids to live in the community, but keep traumatised/tortured husbands/fathers locked up away from their families, then we should stop mouthing off about how important families are. These families should be supported to be together and allowed to heal from their trauma together, with professional medical and psychiatric/psychological help - together.
How much does it cost to provide professional help for those who are deemed to be in need of asylum, who live in our communities, but will need medical/psychological support for years, if not the rest of their lives. That doesn’t make economic sense either!
Finally, I’ve heard comments re the fact, that “we’re at war with Afghanistan” and so shouldn’t ‘let them in’? Howard/Bush/Blair made a big deal out of asserting, that they did not having anything against the citizens of Iraq & Afghanistan, but then went ahead dropping horrific bombs, causing diseases and death, and not complying with their responsibilities as occupiers - that is, protecting water, electricity and other essential services; protecting schools and universities and not penalising the citizens. We’ve acted in total contravention of all those listed and more, and then demonize the poor things when they are tortured, raped and traumatised - when they are driven to desperation and feel that their only chance is to flee!
Asylum seekers make up less than 2% of the people who immigrate here. It is a travesty when politicians, msm and others lie about their predicament, and then treat them as criminals. It is not a crime to seek protection from persecution - anywhere in the world!
Tweedle-deny and Tweedle-delay
agreed to have a battle
For Tweedle-deny said Tweedle-delay
had stolen Kevin’s rattle.
Just checking some stats
In 2009-
25910 Afghanis fled to Europe and 940 came to Australia.
How dull it all was - and how nervous and careful they looked. Up here in the Territory, where I’m running as an independent candidate for the seat of Lingiari, we’re all bemused by the fact that in 2007 our issues were at the top of the agenda with the NT Intervention. Now that both parties have failed to listen to local people and submitted us to ill-conceived social experiments that continue to fail vulnerable people we haven’t heard a peep.
Well, just because they’re not talking about us in Canberra, doesn’t mean the people in Lingiari aren’t wondering what’s next for the NT. We are. And I’m getting a very good response from Territorians who want real representation in Canberra - not party politics - because the situation is urgent.
Deirdre Finter
I guess the audience sitting behind the 3 inquisitors were other journos? Did anyone else notice the heavy-set bloke directly behind the panel, who started shaking his head when Gillard was speaking? Obviously a coalition plant.
As a Labor Party member, I can hardly express how disappointed I am at the “me too” approach to asylum seekers, and the failure to lead on global warming. These are both attributable to Rudd, and in retrospect, however painful it was to dump him, he had to go. But Gillard clearly believes that these policies are necessary to retain government. It’s a cynical business.
@DEIRDRE - I agree with you. In fact, this Wednesday evening I’m going to hear from the Muckaty Traditional Owners re the proposed nuclear waste dump that they DO NOT WANT! It’s being held at the Aboriginal Culture Centre about 23 mins drive away. Aboriginal people don’t want the intervention either - too many are suffering because of it, and they’re being treated with the same patronising, paternalistic and racist manner as decades/centuries ago! shameful! There’s a lot of support from Unions and groups/individuals around the country - and it’s growing! The Sth Coast Labour Council has had a supportive relationship with aboriginal people in the Illawarra, indeed around the country, for decades.
I support you! Good luck Deirdre!
Yes Ron E. Joggles I saw that heavy set bloke directly behind the panel, boy he was really shaking his head when Julia was responding to the question about the number of warnings given to Kevin Rudd - perhaps he was a Rudd plant?
And the 2 failures attributable to Rudd on global warning and asylum seekers, I think it is generally acknowledged that Julia urged Kevin to drop the carbon legislation. And her fingerprints are all over the Govt’s hardened approach to asylum seekers despite her utterings. Listening to Julia may have been Kev’s big mistake - hmm perhaps it was a set-up all along?
@ PAMELA:
“Just checking some stats
In 2009-
25910 Afghanis fled to Europe and 940 came to Australia.”
Clearly the 25,910 had prior knowledge of what was to happen in Oz, in 2010.
The combined Moorebank Intermodal Terminal and SIMTA site is as close as 500 meters from many houses in Wattle Grove,Casula,Glenfield and South Liverpool. This is the wrong development for this part of South West Sydney.The Terminal at Moorebank will only cause traffic congestion, health issues, noise issues. Please consider all the fact about the terminal before you Vote in any election. A site that provides useful information is: http://www.moorebankintermodal.com/