Rudd’s brutal execution
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The execution of Kevin Rudd was done quickly and efficiently overnight. Not since Andrew Peacock’s surprise coup against John Howard in 1989 has there been a political assassination this ruthless. Rudd insisted last night he would stand for the leadership but already Rudd allies were saying before midnight the momentum was against him and he would struggle to be competitive, let alone fend off Gillard. By this morning, it was apparent that Gillard was building a convincing majority. Rudd’s decision to save face and spare his party a contest will be one of the few grace notes of his leadership in recent weeks. While there is talk of dire internal polling, Rudd’s leadership if anything seemed to recover slightly this week as Labor’s polling position stabilised and Rudd announced a win for the Government on the NBN, on the back of wins last week on parental leave. However, revelations that his chief of staff Alister Jordan had been canvassing levels of support within Caucus appeared to become the focus for much of the anger and frustration amongst MPs toward Rudd and his office in recent weeks. Backbenchers spoke of being infuriated on learning that Jordan, rather than Rudd himself, had been contacting some MPs to ascertain whether they still supported Rudd. This isn’t merely about MPs’ egos - although that is always part of the equation — but about the growing perception in recent weeks that Rudd and his office either didn’t understand the magnitude of the problem they faced or had no idea what to do about it. The Rudd PMO has become a byword for arrogance amongst many MPs, but Rudd’s consistently high approval ratings over the last two years silenced any criticism. But once the polls turned, Rudd’s team failed to respond - indeed, some spoke of them “retreating into the bunker”. The revelations about Jordan had a “last straw” effect of showing MPs the changes they believed were necessary to save Labor from defeat weren’t happening. The revelations also apparently deeply offended Gillard herself, who has been a model of a Deputy Prime Minister, ruthlessly parsing her statements about leadership to indicate she had no intention of doing anything other than waiting to succeed Rudd. The result was factional leaders moving yesterday to demand that Rudd call a leadership ballot and that Gillard stand in it. Rudd’s leadership was always based on his appeal to the electorate; while it’s easy to overplay his lack of traditional Labor background (for example, Bob Hawke was widely disliked by the Labor Caucus when PM despite his extensive links throughout Labor and the unions), Rudd’s only real strength was the perception he was a winner, and Labor was prepared to tolerate virtually anything from him as long as he remained a winner. His collapse in the polls removed that cover, exposing his micro-management, his office’s half-smart media management and his increasing political tone deafness to sceptical scrutiny. Rudd’s collapse in the polls started once the Liberal Party united behind Tony Abbott. While Abbott himself has consistently trailed Rudd in voter approval, the lack of the sort of ongoing Liberal leadership problems that have persistently distracted the media and voters since 2006 saw much greater focus on Rudd and his management style. But it was Abbott’s aggression that so rattled Rudd that he made what in retrospect was the profound error of turning his back in the CPRS, the error the sent him into freefall and ultimately out of the Prime Ministership. Still, Labor has now addressed its leadership problem. There’s one leader less popular with Australians than Kevin Rudd, and he runs the Liberals. |
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215 Comments
Bring on the polls!
And what a healthy reminder that we the voters in the nation, do not vote for leaders, we vote for parties. I have heard people bewildered saying ‘But I voted for Rudd!”. Sorry, folks, unless you were in his seat, you did not do so. You voted (whether you thought so or not) for a party. And Party’s can and do change leadership (though usually when in opposition!)
All those things may have happened but this was not chiefly a factional back-room event, Bernard. This was a case of the public being infatuated with someone, losing their senses and then getting them back again. Like “9 and a half weeks”.
No matter what happened in the factions and the back rooms, Rudd was finished. Nobody did it to him but himself.
I’m draeming right? This hasnt actually happned right? I mean the ALP wouldnt knife their equally most popular PM who according to Newspoll holds an ellection winning lead, without even starting a campaign 3 months out from an ellection, right? I mean that would be just crazy.
Gillard: naked ambition masquerading as the national interest.
Just another factional hack climbing the greasy pole.
The political class has evolved into a strange, introverted creature. Who drove this coup? the glorious NSW Right. Run by nocturnals, like the frog-ugly Arbid.
I have just heard Abbott give a press conference. What a boring bastard he is.
David
Mate its you first time? Oh you’re in for a treat come election time!
Mr. Rudd did his job of getting Labor back in and to remove Howard. He has done many good things but Gillard will do even more and will sort out the Fiberals and show them as a bunch of Tossers and has shown in her 1st Press meeting , she is up to the job. I will be putting Labor after my Green vote and the fiberals 2nd last, after F.F.
Yes Abbott will have no hope of competing against Julia - except for the silver-soldered on blue ribbon liberal voters and that small minority who appreciated seeing him in his budgies.
Gillard just has to do something about our climate and she’ll romp it in!!!
@Harrybelbarry
Yes same here - after my Greens vote labour will get my preferences (below the line in senate - the only way to vote).
Gillard is capable, intelligent and strong. Definite PM material.
The Libs are going to have to have a leadership spill of their own now. Rudd was, in effect, doing the Opposition Leader’s job for him, but he is now indisposed.
jim
Technically this may be true, but the fact is most people vote - at least in part - for the leader rather than the party. That person with their face on all those election flyers personifies the parties political stance, so when people voted labor at the last election most of them actually voted for Kevin Rudd. Thus in reality leadership changes like this have an undemocratic stench; people endorse the leader when they vote and thus are right to feel that someone they - as a community - didnt vote for isn’t running the country.
Basically leadership is the premise for most voting intentions and thus I believe politicians - as much as possible - need to honour that. It may well be constitutional to change the PM via caucus vote, but it shouldn’t be encouraged.
DAVID: Look again. Tony Abbott looks as if he had swallowed a cane toad. However, boring, as you said.
Perhaps-knowing how unpopular he is with the electorate-he is wondering if the Liberals might switch their leader?
One couldn’t have watched Kevin Rudd’s final speech without being profoundly moved. It was apparent he lived in a private space-bubble of his own making. He just didn’t get it. He didn’t understand how the game had changed.
It might be kinder, on future occasions, to allow a retiring Prime Minister to make a semi-private speech of acceptance of his/her fate.
The scenario was an inquisition, or an Auto da Fé. Not pretty.
Julia Gillard comes across as knowing exactly what she is on about. She has my best wishes.
A technical question: I can’t find any visuals of the pressers, except for your video of the day snippet of Rudd, and a snippet of Abbott on a very weirdly edited bit on a link on the abc.net.au page.
I thought we were in the C21st, so where’s all the live action? I’m at work, I haven’t got a TV!!
Heeeeelp!
Gillard is the most vile bitch in this country bar none.
I confess I voted for Malcolm Turnbull at the last election, living as I was at the time in Wentworth. I certainly did not vote for Howard! I was of the view (and still am) that Turnbull is a least worst option for Liberal leadership, even though I don’t support that party (and didn’t/wouldn’t even with MT in charge).
I agree though that for the most part leaders are marketed more than the party during election campaigns these days, so for the average shmoe changing PM’s without their expressed consent is a very risky prospect.
While the media were having their little assassinations the parliament voted to upgrade more concentration camps.
Hope they are all fucking happy with their incessant bleating about a few thousand refugees.
Forget you’re meds today marilyn?
I’m with you Jim. This just shows how debased our democracy has become that we have this Presidential-style system where the Paramount Leader automatically decides everything and we are just voting for a sheep on one of two sides who will do what they’re told.
Actually, I don’t think it’s that bad - Rudd’s rating has been pretty low of late, but the ALPs as a whole has been much better. I do think many people distinguish between party and leader, but it is disturbing how acceptable it’s become to talk as if ‘we’ all elect the PM. S/he should be first among equals, not some god-like figure.
Check the bookies, centrebet has the libs blowing out to $3.10 and labor in to $1.35. All within a half hour period after Gillard’s speach. This is the worst case senario for the libs who have not seen this coming. Policy is now back on the agenda as Rudd is no longer the story in itself
Jenny the Fairfax online papers had live coverage on their sites.
Bob,
Just because you base your voting position on the leadership team doesn’t mean people think of a leader as “some god like figure”. Considering the PM has the single greatest impact on policy decisions within the executive I think its entirely proper that people should - in part - base their voting intentions on the leader, it defines so much of what the party is about. Consider this, the liberal party lead by Malcolm Turnbull and then Tony Abbott. Same party but my god what a difference.
Thus leadership matters, it matters big-time!
To me, Rudd came to a party riven by factions of disproportionate representation - being something of a technocrat, he could see factionalism and “nepotism” had delivered a party that preferred self-destruction over party bipartisanship and the national interest - from a bureaucratic background where explanations weren’t necessary and apologies sometimes staged for appearance rather than contrition - led it to victory then tried to change it, as any senior powerful bureaucrat would, taking it by the scruff of the neck and giving it a good shake-up.
In his naivety, and lack of experience in the real world, however, he didn’t grab the opportunity with both hands and the “right head” has been able to double back on itself and bite him.
He forgot - “Never underestimate the power of political self-interest”.
Pity was they didn’t go on with it, make the likes of “Watta Con Roy” PM (with his managerial acumen on display in delivering us “Senator Steve Fielding”), “A-Booboo” (“the germinator” of “NSW state Labor fortunes” fame) deputy/Treasurer, and “Shorten Suite” Minister for Climate Change - take them out of the shadows and put them all up front of the boat - and go to the election.
Then after dressing up to masquerade in their “true blue”, and the “Battle of the Little Big Horns”, be able to start “The Labor Party” from scratch, to reflect more, the electorates real ideas - and not those that want to run the party and country like the committee of some red-neck “No spix, blax or Mex - know jews no service” country club!
And the alternative, “abbey road” is worse!
Oblizzard, what you say is true, but the voters have no opportunity to nominate leaders and they have to choose from a pool of only two candidates for PM. A system in which “the people vote in the prime minister” would be designed very differently.
Good government comes far more from constitutional design, separation of powers, and the friction between interlocking institutions, than from the “will of the people”. Executive, upper house, lower house, the courts, the public service, party #1, party #2, and so on.
Universal adult suffrage is really just the final separation of powers. It’s the capstone institution of constitutional liberalism. No more than that — and no less.
I think ALL Australians will be congratulating Julia Gillard, she is one formidable performer. Pity about the circumstances and the Labour factional dopes have a lot to answer for. Huge punishment for Rudd and what was his ‘crime’? A bureaucrat on steroids. That should be a rather sobering lesson for all bureaucrats, especially Canberra based ones.
However, this is Julia’s day and if the bully boys aka the billionaire mining bosses don’t get off her case pronto, Australians will be cranky, very cranky. They have sunk one Prime Minister, and if they keep on with their utterly greedy and stupid tactics with JG as PM all Australians will come looking for them.
Hopefully the Libs will re-install Malcolm Turnbull to the leadership so that we can get half decent leader providing some logical and sensible policies so we can have a real choice - not the phoney Tony choice.
And hopefully too the wacky FM radio stations in Sydney and Melbourne will get on side with ‘our’ Julia.
Abbott’s comment at press conference: “..this new Labor leader has effectively conceded the Opposition’s critique. ”
That the Government panics when in trouble and run by unions and factions is what the swinging voter will most remember about this week.
You are truly deluded if you think the average punter has time to spend hours each day analysing this any more.
Fortunately for them there is a lot of truth in their assumption.
Shepherdmarilyn - Please explain after taking your medicine.
The whole politics-media thing in this country is a circus of spin, a frenzy feeding on itself including you lot. I am over it. Rudd, a decent, principled, highly competent, intelligent and pragmatic leader is well out of it. He has done a fantastic job for this country, the populace of which is too stupid, superficial and manipulated to pay attention to what has been going on. At any rate Rudd has got his life back, including his longevity and I wish him health, happiness and fulfilment in whatever he chooses to do. I feel sorry for Julia who has impossible, unrealistic expectations to be the magic saviour superwoman (as usual) - leader of a party that is clearly illegitimate in this country unless sucking up to the big end of town. A two week media wonder, Julia will be next in line for the chop from a plutocratic, stagnant Western outpost blithely heading for full-on populism and fascism in a culturally hostile and physically degraded environment. Where to go for inspiration and a decent human future?
This was my fervent hope. I have a feeling Malcolm may be the next PM, if he can keep his shit in order this time around. He certainly has the credentials to win the centre, something Tony utterly lacks.
They don’t. They may not even spend as much time as you think, just a new face talking about healthcare and education with a timetable on the ETS. Come election time they may not even remember this mess. Then again it could be a disaster.
Salamander
WTF are you talking about? Rudd was the king of spin. Everything he said was a sound bite, every sentence was a cliché, every answer evaded the question. Tanner is the only guy on the front bench that consistently comes across as a) knowing what he’s talking about and b) being straight with the audience. Rudd was a shocker in that respect.
I saw Dennis Shanahan on Lateline last Friday say that there was a slim chance of a Labor leadership change between now and the next election, and I scoffed at him, thinking to myself “Yeh right, Liberal stooge!”
Turns out I don’t know much about politics…
Hear, hear Salamander - well put!
I met her in 2002 when she was supposed to be working with the party to bring the refugee policy into line with international and Australian law. She didn’t blink when questioned about the kids in Woomera, frankly didn’t give a toss. Her hair didn’t move when a brilliant Iraqi doctor whose family were trapped in Baghdad asked for her help and she drove that poor man into a total breakdown. He then had to wait another 7 years to be re-united with his family.
I met her again just after we attacked Iraq - I was with another Woomera lawyer who was advocating for a young homosexual man from Iran who Ruddock was trying to deport even though he knew the man would be stoned to death or hung from a crane in the public square in Tehran. She asked Gillard to appeal to Ruddock, Gillard literally told her to get lost.
It took Linda Kirk another 3 years to get the poor man out of Woomera on a bridging visa because she guaranteed him a home in the home of one of her staff.
Then I heard her later on with the worst redneck in Adelaide giggling about turning refugee men, women and kids back into the sea to die - her colleagues went spare. Xmas Island’s concentration camp is her idea, stopping Afghan and Sri Lankan claims is hers and that prick Laurie Fergusons.
I told her to get on a boat and f……..k off back to where she came from. Her response? Do not speak to me again.
Then of course she leads the zionist cheersquad for murdering Palestinians and Lebanese.
She revolts me. Just got message from sister and daughter, both will have nothing to do with Gillard.
Poll in Herald running massively against Gillard.
Woomera is about to be re-opened, had to laugh this morning when David Marr pointed out that many refugee advocates would be appalled.
I sent him these same stories over night.
oops! I forgot last post. The Greens had a lot to do with Rudd’s demise as well - such an anal-retentive lot.
They too had better be mindful of trying to strong arm OUR Julia.
In many ways I suspect that the Greens would rather see Phoney Tony as PM, then they could spend the rest of their lives complaining and big noting themselves for what they did not achieve.
Julia needs a clear run at the next election and become PM in her own right - free of the Labour factional hacks.
OK everybody let’s decide to give our Julia a fair dinkum run at the next election ….and WIN!
The Libs should head back to Turnbull….
Julia v Tony - No contest…
Julia v Turnbull - more interesting….
Well now the likes of Hartcher and co. who have been tearing him to shreds for the past year are claiming that they wasted a perfectly good PM.
Fucking snivelling hypocrites.
So glad I would vote for a drovers dog or house brick before I would vote for the ALP. I even had Mia Handshin up against Pyne at the last election and couldn’t bring myself to vote for her.
What was that about lemons, Tony Abbott?
And isn’t it just wonderful to see the Coalition suddenly honorable and riddled with decency. “What a shockking thing to oust a sitting PM. How awful.” No mention of their former two leaders, or of the detailed and thorough negotiations on an ETS, tossed out overnight, when Abbott got in by one VOTE.
Julia Gillard was unopposed guys!
Time for a real contest.
Oh, and there’s old Big Ribbons…walking out of the House…best place for her.
Michael Palmer you’ll only have to wait until March, at the latest. Why did Turnbull decide to re-nominate for Wentworth?
What a joke….. and not such an effusive eulogy from Bernard Kene for his hero.
The Krudd’s “profound error” wasn’t turning his back on the CPRS…………… that was eminently sensible
Rather it was the manner of his turning most particularly in light of his ridiculous rhetoric on the subject.
The utterly despicable speech to the Lowy Institute in November last year so beloved by Bernard Keane best exemplifies that reality:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/11/09/rudd-could-be-a-great-leader-on-climate-change-if-he-actually-tried/
“(C)ommendable words”….. my arse.
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2009/11/australia-prime-minister-kevin-rudds.html
Kevin Rudd suffers from lack of sleep and overworking, which has accumulated to make his recent weeks full of incomprehensible longwindedness and forgetting he has colleagues to consult. This hero’s fatal flaw is the substance of tragedy, and awaits a playwright like W. Shakespeare.
shepherdmarilyn - the impact of so much of your good comment is ruined and lost by vitriol like this. I’m sure Julia’s comments re border protection don’t suggest a further ALP softening of the kind you’d like to see but that does not make her vile. It may make her more electable and therefore able to continue the less harsh treatment of boat people which has developed under Labor compared with the Coalition.
@Spare Us - have you ever watched any of Parliament and listened to what The Greens talk about, propose and ask questions about?
Last night Ian McDonald said something derogatory about Conroy and Bob Brown raised a point of order about the comments being unparliamentary. The President ignored it and then Ian McDonald said “Bah - typical Greens always sticking up for their Labor allies”.
Doesn’t sound like the Greens would be “rooting for Phoney Tony” to me.
Anyway as a Greens voter I voted in the Greens senators to stick up for the environment - for the trees and wetlands and native animals who are being killed, poisoned, polluted and exploited for a quick buck and who have no voice or way of stopping the human race from stuffing things up. To stop foreign oil companies drilling for and spilling oil and gas in our territorial waters - like the 12 week spill up in the Kimberly that people have forgotten about now that BP has eclipsed that with a disaster of the worst kind.
Greens voters didn’t vote them in there to compromise on that and let bad legislation get passed which is bad for our environment and pays lip service only to sustainability and environmental repsonsibility - which have some bearing on almost every issue.
So what you ignorantly and crudely describe as “anal-retentive” is actually principled and moral courage - which I applaud them for.
In saying that however it has been the Labor party who have refused to negotiate with the Greens on any issue - so wake up to yourself and aquaint yourself with reality and current events before making a broad uninformed statement like that in future.
SPARE US, Please spare us.
What did The Greens have to do with ousting of Rudd?
And did you note that in her first press conference the PM to be gave three examples of her successfully negotiating with The Greens.
I’m very pleased that Rudd has gone because he failed to live up to the spin of his election campaign.
I’m hoping that Julia will make some real changes, and Labor will thus deserve my second preference (after 1 Green).
Don’t count on it Patricia you have never met her. She is utterly monstrous. I rang her office and got the spiel.
What I don’t get is why the hell the media in this country whine on and on incessantly about a few thousand people who aren’t doing anything wrong.
Yes, it is back on the agenda. Which policies? The failed RSPT, which will inflict damage on the economy; the homes that continue to burn to the ground as part of Peter Garrett’s Scorched Australia Initiative (aka Home Insulation); the rorting and mismanagement in the BER; the watering down of the border protection laws, crowding the detention centres; the list goes on and on. Yes, policy is back on the agenda.
Here you go. Gillards stinking policy.
THERE IS A GROWING TOLL OF MISERY IN AUSTRALIAN DETENTION CENTRES as people recognised as refugees endure continued detention. At atime when detention centres are full to capacity- ASIO is allowed to go slow on security clearances.
There are 83 Tamil people who have now clocked up 15 months in detention on Christmas Island. They have been recognised as refugees by Australia yet must wait for a security clearance from ASIO. There are concerns that the Sri Lankan Embassy from whom ASIO source their information, deliberately refuse to provide information as well as providing tainted information to further punish the Tamils.
Another group of more than 30 Rohingya Burmese who were recognised as refugees 7 months age and who were told that they were on a “positive pathway”when they were transferred to Darwin are still waiting for - you guessed the famous secutity clearanace from ASIO. Their dilemma may be worse in that the Rohinyas are stateless. For example, under the 1982 Citizenship Law in Burma , a person must establish Burmese ancestry back to 1823 in order to be considered a citizen. Therefore, most Rohingyas along with other ethnic minorities are not able to qualify as citizens, and are denied many basic rights including access to education and even freedom of movement. http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,USCIS,,MMR,,3ae6a6a41c,0.
In this instance from whom will ASIO get their information or will these persecuted people stay in Mandatory Indefinite detention at ASIO’s pleasure.
The Rohingyas are on hunger strike in desperation. they have nothing left to fight with than their own bodies. These people have been tortured and persecuted by the Burmese regime, acknowledged as one of the worlds worst governments for human rights.
There are others languishing in detention camps on and off shore as well as in Papua New Guinea waiting interminably for security checks.
We are asking for justice and fairness for these people from the Australian government- how much more must they suffer. ASIO is a government department and must be made accountable like any other to provide their services in a fair, just and timely way. No one is allowed to ring, to ask or to speak to ASIO about the delays in processing. Even the Media and immigration will not say their name. This is cruel and foolish in a democratic country to have a department so unaccountable to the people and their government
We can’t see Bernard’s tears from this distance, but I’m sure he would have shed one or two.
Just a moment, you Green lot. Who voted with Phony Tony’s lot to defeat the ETS/CPRS? Now that is an inconvenient truth I suspect and one which the Greens will never be forgotten for. Please join the Phony Tony lot, you are equally bigoted and ‘fundamentalists’ - Phony Tony would love to have your vote - AGAIN!
Remember also Malcolm Turnbull lost his job for sticking with the ETS - so in many ways you have two important ‘scalps’ on your belt. Keep it up and you may even get Julia’s as well, but make sure to spare Phony Tony and vote for all his half-baked rantings. You should be happy with his stand against the ‘fair go’ mining tax - the poor billionaires need a few more billions. You talk about a contorted and irrational lot of ‘anal-retentives’.
Yes, we are aware of that. Your point?
@Marilyn:
“I told her to get on a boat and f……..k off back to where she came from. Her response? Do not speak to me again.
Why are we not surprised?
If you think your case is strengthened by effing and blinding, you’re wrong.
@shepherdmarilyn.
Except they’re wealthy enough to pay passage ($15 - $20k per head), jump the queue and reckless enough to immediately threaten the lives of their children in rust-buckets on the open ocean?
Probably 200 plus lost at sea since Rudd’s unctuously trumpeted ego inflating policy change?
Spare Us,
The CRPS was such bad policy that the Greens were right to vote against it.
I’m hopeful that the new PMs words at her first press conference are a sign that she will negotiate with the Greens and that what comes next will be something that deserves and gets Greens support.
Note that I’m very critical of Rudd, and now I’m hopeful with Gillard. So I don’t have a fixed view about Labor.
Shepherd , no wonder she dont talk to you, F this and F that. you should join the Liberal Party. Don’t worry , Labor will get Israel to look after Border Patrol for us. I think the Libs were in power in 2002. Our Julia will be good for Australia, just give her a chance.
Spare us, is that name intended to be ironic?
@OBlizzard. Yeah! Just like OBlizzard….get a life…..
As far as defeat and humiliation goes, Howard being the first PM to lose his seat in 75+ years I thought, ‘nothing can surely top that’. Looks like Howard will have the last laugh over Rudd.
Didn’t even last 1 term, how embarrassing.
Well shepherdmarilyn is right about one thing - Hartcher’s article was truly pathetic and hypocritical. It takes a great deal of temerity to feign shock at Rudd’s ousting due to his being a perfectly good PM, as if the act occurred in a vacuum, when he was fully complicit in the media feeding frenzy against Rudd which fomented it. In a recent column, Hartcher dealt with the Israel-Aus relationship in a highly exaggerated manner, simply parroting Likudnik talking points filled and absurd criticism of Rudd’s eminently reasonable handling of the passport affair. In another one, he actually put Abbott as an equivilent good PM, defending his tenure as Minister without even mentioning RU486 in the past, or his botched policy launches in the present. If I wanted this junk I would read The Australian.
Wow, witty comeback…
Howard has nothing to laugh about yet. By not quitting while he was ahead, he remains forever the architect of the coalition’s downfall.
Socratease:
“Effing and blinding” is Marilyn’s sole mode of communication. And when self-respecting recipients of her froth give her the cold shoulder, she’s all affronted and effs and blinds some more.
There’s never any justice in Marilyn’s world, because no one ever does what she abusively orders them to.
You guys need a moderator on this site - swearing and stupidity.
b ut I would like to say that I never voted for kevin rudd, I voted for Lindsay Tanner despite ALP having rudd as a leader.
Shepherd Marilyn if you spoke to Ms Gillard in the way you write here, using language I find offensive, and I’m no angel, it is not surprising you received a somewhat frosty reception from her.
Moderator? How about an editor? They still have a way out of date essay and photo of Rudd at top of the Crikey home page as bait for subscriptions.
(sorry about the out of control bolding above)
Tanner has just quit.
Tanner is one of the very few politicians that I could be bothered listening to. I’m sad to see him leave parliament, but he’s on a hiding to nothing in his seat of Melbourne.
Having expressed my regrets for Kevin Rudd’s treatment in an earlier comment, I just wanted to ask if anyone else had heard Julia Gillard’s passing swat at Poison-Dwarf.
It was very funny.
SOCRATEASE: “@Marilyn:
“I told her to get on a boat and f……..k off back to where she came from. Her response? Do not speak to me again.
Why are we not surprised?
If you think your case is strengthened by effing and blinding, you’re wrong.”
Well said. I no longer read her. She is too long, she has too great a chip- on- the shoulder, and frequently is ambivalent.
@ Spare Us (2.23pm)
‘Julia needs a clear run at the next election and become PM in her own right - free of the Labour factional hacks.’
I fear you are a political innocent if you believe a Labor Prime Minister or leader is ever free of factional hacks. Rudd became PM in his own right and you see the result today. Down the track (perhaps not for years) it will all end in tears for Julia Gillard, too. And that applies to any Prime Minister regardless of political party.
@ Shepherdmarilyn
Your language has the effect of immediately getting your audience offside and, consequently, negates any point you are making. I’m stating this without malice.
I’ll second that.
@Zut Alors:
“Down the track (perhaps not for years) it will all end in tears for Julia Gillard, too”
Yes, once you reach the top the only way is down. However, it strikes me that Gillard is not one to shed a tear. I think she has more dignity.
PM Gillard is at the moment doing a demolition job on Abbott in the House. Abbott on a motion of public interest attacked the honesty of the Govt and Gillard. Suspect after only 5 mins he is now regreting it. Abbott yelled and screamed like a demented Banshi. Gillard has been methodic, even tempered, direct and hitting Abbott for sixes in all directions. Its poetry.
James Mac - for a bit of fun look up Wayne Goss in wikipedia. So similar to the Rudd prime ministership in so many ways
Tanners just resigned
i like Tanner, he is a good speaker , but was going to be turfed out by the Greens at the next election. Poor abbott , only has the great big tax to run with and Julia has cut his only policy up. No more ads, no more funding from the rich miners and rupert loses on advertising in his rags. this is going to be fun to watch again.
Did Tanner give his reasons for quitting?
Not long ago he was interviewed on Channel Two and he gave the impression then that the seat of Melbourne is such a close run thing, and that his wife is having another child/or has just had one, and that his heart was no longer in his job.
Perhaps this latest row, within the party, was one step too far.
@David:
“Abbott yelled and screamed like a demented Banshi.”
So, she’s castrated him already. I predicted that his voice would go up an octave.
Venise,
His resignation speech to parliament is available online. In it he said:
“Recently I advised Prime Minister Kevin Rudd that I did not intend to contest the forthcoming election. He asked me to reconsider my decision, and I agreed to talk further with him at the conclusion of the Parliamentary session. We were scheduled to discuss this matter at 9:30am today.”
The dismissal was too quick even for an unfair one. Wouldn’t wish that sort of team behaviour on anyone: http://bit.ly/dakvAE
@ Socratease
I would never have expected Malcolm Fraser to shed a tear either. He seemed as immune from emotion as an Easter Island statue - until that final election night at the Southern Cross Hotel.
That news about Tanner’s resignation is a blow - but his seat margin was very slim.
^ I think you’ll find that Gillard is tougher than all of them.
As I said earlier in one thread or another, she’ll need to be careful not to become Margaret Thatcher.
We all know of single-issue voters, but Marilyn must be the country’s only single-issue thinker.
VENISE..yes that and he has bought a property and wants his 2 young girls to grow up knowing their dad and wants to devote more time to his “great interest” the welfare of black Australians. He also noted he had a discussion with Kevin Rudd weeks ago and Rudd asked him to reconsider. He said he had an appointment with the PM this morning, not realising it would be Julia, to say he had decided to go. So not an on the spot decision. Interesting that is why he was out at dinner last night while the change over was being discussed in Rudds office.
Oh hell the ice maiden from the West, Bishop is harping and whining and moaning in that shrill tone….time to change stations.
What I don’t get is why people make subjective judgements about Question Time, without quotes, and then expect people to swallow their loaded hyperbole? I don’t make such foolish assumptions based off tertiary sources, I find it highly irritating and downright deceitful when others (commenter & journos alike) expect their reader to do so.
The only people who agree will be the choir you’re preaching to, and the people who disagree to whom your attempting to persuade, will be pushed away from your arguement. Such nonsense.
Here’s looking at you David.
@Fireflying…so you calling me a liar…get hold of Hansard and read it, then get back to me.
@ Socratease
….or Queen Elizabeth I
^ I was waiting for that, but I remind you that Liz I was reputedly a virgin.
@lacquered studio
“Effing and blinding” is Marilyn’s sole mode of communication. And when self-respecting recipients of her froth give her the cold shoulder, she’s all affronted and effs and blinds some more.
There’s never any justice in Marilyn’s world, because no one ever does what she abusively orders them to.”
I think thats marilyns problem with Rudd, she see’s too much of herself in him…
projection is a very common thing.
“@Fireflying…so you calling me a liar…”
No, those are your words not mine.
Would be rather pointless consulting Hansard, seeing as you made no reference/quote that can be checked. That was the whole point of my criticism.
OBLIZZARD: Tanner was interview on the 7.30 Report not log ago. It was pretty obvious he had had a gut-full of politics, and wanted to spend more time with his family.
Today’s events just provided the last link in the chain.
@Marilyn:
“I told her to get on a boat and f……..k off back to where she came from. Her response? Do not speak to me again.
Why are we not surprised?
If you think your case is strengthened by effing and blinding, you’re wrong.
shepherdmarilyn, If you spoke to me like you say you did to Julia, I’d tell you to rake off also. Why dont you open your house up to a few refugee’s, and all your mate’s as well and than they wouldn’t have to worry where to put them . I feel for them also, but the government is doing the best they can, give them a little room and time, Rome wasn’t built in a day rember.Any chance of knowing how old you are?I sugest you give up the glass of vinegar you must be drinking each day, it’s making you too sour, and cranky as well.
SOCRATEASE: Thank you very much. It’s very kind of you.
DAVID: Thank you too.
MY COMMENT @4:28pm has me on the ropes. I’ve no idea how it happened. Sigh!
@Fireflying…as we are talking House of Reps 2pm -4pm end of QT Thursday 24th June, hardly an act of hard labour to go and seek. I’ll ignore your attempt at being clever.
Fairfax are already running: “Gillard, accidental PM or schemer?’
has a male politician ever been called a ‘schemer’ ?
I take it this is the first of a series of euphemisms for ‘bitch’
Well, I expected this, but not before the election. Gillard was always the leader in waiting, who, unlike Costello, took the opportunity when it arose. I dont think Rudd will stay in parliament, I still reckon he see’s himself as a future secretary general of the UN. Expect to see him as Australias ambassador to the UN in the not too far distant future.
Of course, how does this impact the election campaign. Go short, for say August 28th as the pundocracy have suggested, or follow the original plan of going long, perhaps as long as February? While the long strategy is designed to allow the Monk the time to shoot himself in the foot, it has the danger of allowing the MSM to strengthen the lies about failures in Gillards policy deliveries (ie BER, IR). Going short could be risky in that people may not have had time to make their mind up about her. Either way, the next election will be a referendum on Gillard as leader. These types of elections have never been particularly successful for Labor, historically (that is, putting a woman in as leader to try and win a tough election). The success in QLD with Bligh was mainly because Springborg ‘went native’ and didnt stay on message. I dont think Abbott is that ill-disciplined.
“…hardly an act of hard labour to go and seek.”
Indeed. So why is it so hard for you to provide a quote? It is your arguement, not mine, I’m not doing the work for you. The burden of proof is on you.
Heck I don’t even know what exactly your arguement is because you still haven’t referenced any questions/responses from QT.
Quit being so lazy, it is not up to others to disprove your negative.
firefly….regretfully as Im not at your beck n call, I would quote Marilyn as to what you can do with yourself, but am too much of a gentleman to indulge myself, get nicked will have to suffice,
meantime I will continue to listen and write as suits me.
Anyone who thinks Rudd has been unfairly dealt with, think again.
In 2005, while Labor Opposition leader Mark Latham was on leave convalescing with pancreatitis, the tsunami struck.
Kevin Rudd took charge of preparing and communicating the Labor Party’s message of sympathy for affected countries.
Knowing that Latham was sick and on doctor’s orders to stay away from stress, Rudd could have texted the draft sympathy message to Latham and asked him to endorse it.
Instead, he used the tsunami tragedy to help build a campaign against Latham in his absence, saying colleagues were very disappointed at Latham’s failure to organise a sympathy message.
Rudd then backed Beazley for a leadership challenge. Latham, absent and in serious pain, did not defend himself.
So I have little patience for anyone complaining that Rudd has been backstabbed.
There is only ONE WINNER in this debacle…. THE CORPORATIONS and in particular the mining corporations .
Ah you poor, ignorant or should I say naive general public….you have been done over by those poor, almost broke
billionaire’s who live in opulence whilst a lot of us only just make ends meet…. and yet…. we poor silly losers
fall for their slick advertising campaign.
JamesK Do you have anything that approaches supporting evidence for your probably 200 figure? What ever the actual number I can only apologise that we didn’t meet John Howards high standards. over 350 people died when one boat sank because of his Pacific Solution. The ALP never got close to that level of performance.
Your ongoing traducing people who come to this country to make better lives for themselves and their children is despicable.
The saddest thing for Australia today was the resignation of Lindsay Tanner — one of the great minds of Labor.
I was very moved by Rudd’s speech. And I was comforted by Julia’s speech.
The opposition, in their ‘holier than thou’ stance keep harking that Rudd was assassinated. What was their advertising about then? As my daughter would say — ‘hypocrite much’.
It has been a day of upheaval. Now it is time to take a breath.
Julia Gillard is currently talking about wanting an Australia that rewards hard work. I am a nurse working for an agency and I work predominantly in the public health system. I work very hard, often up to 60 hours a week. I have a family with 2 young children. However my state government who has severely mismanaged their health budget they are trying to prevent me from working, of earning an honest income and to provide for my family.
This rhetoric from Julia Gillard is hollow and just goes to prove just how dishonest government has become.
Australia is run by factions - congratulations. It is not lead by Gillard or Rudd. I have lost faith that anyone will represent me as a working Australian.
“firefly….regretfully as Im not at your beck n call”
Attempting to shift the burden of proof onto me has failed, so I take it you are now conceding your claim is without proof (or you are too lazy to defend it).
“meantime I will continue to listen and write as suits me.”
No one is suggesting you stop writing. It’s like this: everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts.
Just remember David there are plenty of people who will swallow what you say at face value, but every so often you will meet someone who challenges your spurious claims. No amount of loaded language or fallacious logic will shift the onus onto them in such situations and you will once again find yourself backed into a corner, all of your own doing.
Facebook group: I won’t stab you in the back!… lol… jk, I’m Julia Gillard!
Also check the Jetstar website, wow, fast marketing is fast.
Why do people think that catching a boat for a short trip is the most dangerous thing that Afghans, Iraqis and Sri Lankans ever have to face?
Or that paying their own way is a crime?
This is the sort of delusion I have been getting from the ALP as well as the lieberals for years.
Why on earth do you nasty freaks want to pay $300 million a year to import people who have not a jot of right to be here?
Are asylum seekers ‘queue jumpers’?
There is a view that asylum seekers, particularly those who arrive in Australia by boat, are ‘jumping the queue’ and taking the place of a more deserving refugee awaiting resettlement in a refugee camp. The concept of an orderly queue does not accord with the reality of the asylum process. Paul Power, CEO of the Refugee Council of Australia (RCOA) notes that:
Implicit in this view is that Australia should not be bothered by people seeking protection under the Refugee Convention and that genuine refugees should go to other countries and wait patiently in the hope that Australia may choose to resettle them.18
The reality is that only a small proportion of asylum seekers are registered with the UNHCR:
UNHCR offices registered some 73 400 applications out of the total of 861 400 claims in 2008. This number has decreased compared to 2007 (79 800 claims). The office’s share in the global number of applications registered stood at 9 per cent in 2008 compared to 15 per cent in 2006 and 12 per cent in 2007. As the overall number of applications has continued to rise, states are increasingly taking responsibility for refugee status determination.19
Once registered with the UNHCR, many refugees seek resettlement to a country such as Australia. Refugees do not have a right to be resettled, and states are not obliged under the 1951 Refugee Convention or any other instrument to accept refugees for resettlement. It is a voluntary scheme co-ordinated by the UNHCR which, amongst other things facilitates burden-sharing amongst signatory states. Resettlement therefore complements and is not a substitute for the provision of protection to people who apply for asylum under the Convention.
According to the UNHCR, less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees may be resettled in any given year:
Millions of refugees around the world continue to live with little hope of finding a solution to their plight … resettlement benefits a small number of refugees; in 2008, less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees directly benefited from resettlement.20
18. P Power, ‘Speech to ALP National Conference fringe event: which
@Lady White Peace
It’s a fight to the death. Perhaps the Welsh have a better sense of what is at stake. They were “miners” too.
Firefly…this is a great laugh reading your pompous dribble, carry on its rather entertaining, the office are enjoying it as well, one collegue asked if you are available for standup comedy
keep it coming.
One question that will never get answered;
What grubby sort of deal did the AWU and the NSW right do with the Mining industry.? Expect a CMFEU and AWU turf war in the very near future.
@Spare us
“… Just a moment, you Green lot. Who voted with Phony Tony’s lot to defeat the ETS/CPRS? Now that is an inconvenient truth I suspect and one which the Greens will never be forgotten for. …”
They voted against it because it was a pile of what people walking their dogs pick up and carry with them in little plastic bags.
They didn’t vote with Phoney Tony - just because they both voted no don’t confuse the underlying reasons why - The Greens voted against it because it was 1 step backwards. The coalition voted against it cause they don’t believe in climate change or are too greedy to care.
It was a scheme that didn’t reduce pollution and took money from everyone and gave it to polluters to keep doing what they were doing.
It would have been like a domestic violence scheme where everyone was levied a charge for the purpose of stopping domestic violence but where that money was paid to men who bashed their wives to continue to bash their wives at the same rate - but pay people overseas to promise to stop bashing 5% of their wives.
Know anyone who would sign up to that? Two types of people would oppose it - people who knew that it wouldn’t prevent any domestic violence - and the other group who didn’t think any wives were being bashed in the first place (or worse still - acknowledged that wife bashing was taking place but it wasn’t having any harm to anyone).
So Green’s voters and people who are actually concerned about the environment know the reason why The Greens voted against the rubbish ETS/CPRS - so they won’t be upset at the Greens. And I suspect the climate change deniers and those too selfish to worry about other animals or anyone else didn’t want the ETS so they won’t be upset with the Greens - so who do you think are upset with the Greens for voting against it.
Well, how is that change everyone wanted back in 2007 going? Now we have the more amiable Julia in charge, will things improve and everyone in the Labor Party get along?
They always have in the past haven’t they? I can’t see how she will have time to change much as she will have to front up at Full Forward for the Dogs in their next match.
May 17th 2010 “I have as much chance of being Full Forward for the Dogs than there is of a change in the Labor Party” Line up Julia, Rodney Eade’s problems are solved, i don’t know about the rest of the country though.
Now what did Tony Abbott say about politicians not always speaking the truth?
Got any quotes to validate your view??
David said - “PM Gillard is at the moment doing a demolition job on Abbott in the House… Abbott yelled and screamed like a demented Banshi. Gillard has been methodic, even tempered, direct and hitting Abbott for sixes in all directions.”
Seeing as I haven’t seen said session nor read Hansard, I am genuinely interested in what occurred there and whether or not your summary analysis is correct.
So unless you got some juicy segments from QT to support your view, I ain’t interested in discussing much else.
Continue the mudslinging all you like, if that is what you get your kicks from.
@firefly…wow more great
David and Fireflying: get a room.
Is the media undermining democracy in its constant pursuit of headlines and drama?
This was a poll driven coup that stole voters’ rights to judge the Prime Minister against the Leader of the Opposition. That’s pollocracy not democracy! So can finally please put to rest the standard response from pollies, “…the only poll that matters is the one on election day”?
Ms Gillard may well resurrect the Labor Party because that’s what the betting companies are saying. So let’s just throw in the towel and hand over the running of the country to the pollsters and bookmakers that will no doubt install Joe Hockey as the preferred opposition leader.
Media barons will sell more papers and the bookies will sucker more punters (working families) to part with their hard earned money to pick their starter before the only poll that matters is run.
This event is perhaps the greatest example of why people should NOT consider entering politics.
Julie Gillard will be an asset only until that moment the polls say she isn’t. Then she will become history regardless of what voters may have to say.
And that is not good for working families.
Marilyn:
You are now completely off-topic. Yet again. Look at your browser’s header. This thread is about the Government leadership spill. It’s got frog-all to do with your favoured rant. It’s not that I don’t agree with your principles on asylum seekers, but there are buckets of other threads here and elsewhere where you can dump your guts and actually be relevant.
So I think it’s time you started your own blog. So that every day, to your heart’s content, you can post all the same statistics and Hansard blockquotes you currently like to drown Crikey with. Then can all enjoy the luxury of not bookmarking it.
Do I have a second?
Seconded!
Fireflying:
I understand you’re trying to save face by digging your heels in, but you’ve reduced yourself to pettiness now. Quit while you’re behind.
God! we get so precious don’t we?
This will not make one damn bit of difference. Not one bit. Things will roll on as they always have done, and politicians will continue to set their example of integrity to the populace of this country: disloyalty/backstabbing/bullying, etc.
We are so damn desperate for some sort of leadership integrity ( which of course doesn’t exist), that many will wax lyrical over this coup/new PM-,others will criticise it. So what’s new?
Rudd did no more than Turnbull;-arrogant Presidential style of leadership-so he/they had to get rolled.
(Turnbull looks like a saviour of the ‘Liberals’,-and I suspect Rudd might end up as a saviour…..as not so bad after all!)
This ludicrous farce of political machinations will continue on ad infinitum. It has fuck all (that is FUCK ALL my thin skinned compadres), to do with effective leadership/running of this country.
It is to do with power and control only. These people don’t give a Gnu’s gonad’s for the electorate-they will simply (and brutally) stump up someone who they believe will win them further power and control.
Only then do we hapless sods come into it to assist them in that endeavour.
________________________________
As for the pathetic moral high ground touchiness about language-bloody well grow up!!
What is it with some of you? One starts on MS-and then all of you suddenly get uppity about her language. So the conservative Gillard was told to fuck off?
Oh mercy me!! I feel faint. Sheesh!
Gillard is a tough and very ‘flexible’ politician. MS is correct in her observations. I don’t give one damn for the anger that stems from the double standards of such politicians-;in particular, those who purport to care about ‘ordinary people’. Gillard cares less than Rudd,-and way-y-y-y less that the cretins in opposition.
Such frustrating anger is entirely predictable. Someone has to speak for the poor buggers caught up in this political hypocrisy. Try working at the coalface of this,-you would be bloody angry at their total lack of care. (I’m talking about refugee advocates-NOT some of you who see refugees as..; however you choose to see them).
Why so precious of Gillard’s sensitivities? Does she care about those who suffer at the hands of Government decisions??
As one of her Uni colleagues mentioned here in SA,-the Gillard of Uni days would be at front and centre-against the Gillard of yesterday- never mind today!
________________________
Nothing will change. Labor will remain the New Liberals, and Abbott/Howard ‘Liberals’ will continue as conservatives/Conservatives.
Interesting that Tanner has quit, guess he realised he would not win his Melbourne seat with the Greens so strong
@ Astro
I suspect Tanner has now gifted it to the Greens. I think the margin in his seat, Melbourne, is approx 3%.
He was always a good performer in Parliament, he’s a real loss.
AUSTRALIANNUMERALS: “This was a poll driven coup that stole voters’ rights to judge the Prime Minister against the Leader of the Opposition. That’s pollocracy not democracy! “
This is a very common misunderstanding Australia’s political design, as all our school teachers (mine too) taught us that Australia is “a democracy”.
Australia is not “a democracy”; Australia is a constitutional monarchy in the formal sense, and in every other sense it is a constitutional republic. Democratic suffrage is among its features.
Voting is the least of your powers as a citizen, and even free speech ranks only slightly higher. Your greatest power by far comes from your freedom to do as you see fit with your life, to compete for jobs on your merits, to join or abstain from associations, and to hold what you earn and spend it as you please.
@zut alors
Labor will parachute another union leader into the seat.
I saw George Negus on TV this morining, he lives in the seat, maybe he will run!.
Vale Kevin Rudd. A good man and PM. The might of right wing media, the factional Unions hard to resist.
The one PM with brains .
“Tanners gone …… anyone seen my vote …….. no Julia you that’s not it. It’s the newest model, informal on the lower half and green upper?”
@ Zut
Its more than 4% and he would have won in my opinion. The reason the greens never win lower house seats is they don’t have enough of a policy platform.
I believe his reason that he want to be with family. He mentions them often in his speeches and he has two 2-year-olds. I expect he didn’t want to miss their growing up.
Far too much joy and glee in the MSM for my liking.
Elan:
No wonder you sympathise with Marilyn; you spit at everyone else with the same, withering, know-it-all contempt, and defend her appalling manners. Not exactly a leaf from How to Win Friends and Influence People. But please, go your hardest.
In the style of Marvin the paranoid robot I make the comment that no-one will read my reply because there are so many there before me.
But (nervously starting my sentence with a conjunction) , I’d like to say that if the Labor Party
had 10 years to think of a worse decision they couldn’t have picked a one as bad as this. Mark Latham would pale into insignificance in comparison.
For all of Rudd’s faults, he was an intelligent soul who had the balls to take on difficult and necessary reform. Obviously this grated with the dinosaurs in the unions who felt unloved and unrespected. Well they’ve got their way and really f*cked up now.
The polls were not that bad, and come the campaign, Abbot would be easily exposed as lacking in both policy and the ability to defend it.
The Murdoch media is going to pillory Julia Gillard in the same way as Anna Bligh in Queensland.
The biggest loser is that body on life support - Democracy. With action on climate change gone and the mining tax
history, the corporates are feeling their oats. What next? Good luck Julia you’lll need a lot of it!
So, we have had a coup d’etat. And the democratically elected PM has been fired, and a lovely lady came to power through internal wrangling and not by the vote of the public. And it happened so quickly and smoothly. Nice. Once the mission has been accomplished we can start building mythology around this historical event. I am just about to start composing a poem about Julia Gillard: ‘More of the same, my lass, more of the same’.
Abba would probably correct me: But super-tax, super tax, super-tax is gone for good. It was the reason number one.
Bernard the new main game is your final paragraph.
You say the Liberals have untied behind Tony Abbott and you also point out that with a government all at sea, with a PM on the nose within his own party and with the electorate Tony Abbott failed to capitalise with people sending their votes mainly elsewhere rather than contemplate voting for a man with a history of political stuff-ups.
My favourite by the way was employing David Oldfield who then proceeded to use Tony’s office facilities to set up One Nation in NSW.
It is also worth remembering the narrowness of the margin by which Abbott defeated Turnbull and mull on the fact that his majority existed on that day only and if the vote had been postponed and the replacements for Nelson and Costello had been in the room he would not have won.
Labor have the upper hand here in that Gillard now has the timing of an election in her gift.
Labor has made the change and it can decide on how much breathing space it needs to establish “brand Gillard”
The coalition has only one chance and that is that Gillard blows it big time, which i suspect she won’t.
If as I expect she gets a bounce in the polls at Abbott’s expense then the election gets ever nearer and the risks of a leadership change for the Liberals get even greater.
The Libs should know by now that with even a moderately well perceived government they have no chance, the polls have told then that
Bottom line, they have to decide within a week if Abbott can defy his polling to date and beat Gillard and if they decide he can’t then Turnbull has to return from the wilderness with all the old issues that will raise.
Labor has lanced its boil its now over to the Coaltion see if it’s prepared to accept the doctor’s medicine .
I suspect they won’t and Gillard will win later this year.
Eclectic Eel (wonderful name by the way) : “Abbot would be easily exposed as lacking in both policy and the ability to defend it.”
Abbott’s lack of policy is his strongest point - don’t fix what isn’t broken. The few policies he’s been pressured by the media into suggesting won’t get past his party room. That’s not a minus, it’s a plus. But I appreciate that it sounds paradoxical to most people’s expectation of political “leaders”.
It’s an amazing country that can re-elect a war criminal but dump a pm over a tax on multi-billionaires.
Must say though most around the country are very uncomfortable with this.
Elan you can be assured of one thing in your pathetic sad life, PM Gillard and former PM Rudd have a hellava lot more people who will always look up to and respect them, than your grizzling negative nothing self. Alas the world will always have its share of your type, where the genes are associated with things that crawl along the ground.
Salamander, I’m in strong agreement with your original response,
If the party didn’t like the way Rudd was doing things they had plenty of time to do something about it-bend his ear.
The one thing they can’t question is his work ethic - at least he wasn’t asleep in a hammock for three years!
Slaange.
Julia admitted that she is not a Doris Day and deserves her present role. Does that mean that she was plotting behind Kevin’s back for months?
Beware of Ides of March.
eclectic eel….your comments surely are a pathetic attempt at a script for a Liberal Party advertisement… they pale into insignificance in comparison with your poor attempt at covering yourself sitting astride a fence.
shepherdmarilyn….you say “Must say though most around the country are very uncomfortable with this”…where is your backup, your support, your knowledge of such a claim? As far as I can gauge, the majority of talkback, blogs are supporting PM Gillard, particularly women. You appear to have a personal hatred of PM Gillard, I do not believe the majority agree with you, particularly those of your own sex.
The ABC have already started their attack on Ms Gillard, the 7pm news and 7-30 report i/v by that tired old Kerry O’Brien was disgraceful. I hope she grabs that ABC Board by the scruff of the neck and tosses them. I am astounded the ABC staff generally are supporting this crap.
The beauty was tonight, the PM was too damn smart for O’Brien, what a tired old hack.
I watched the 7.30 Report interview and I had no problems at all with O’Brien’s questions. I thought they were quite tame in fact. Gillard showed that she’s going to avoid answering what she considers inconvenient questions in the manner she does during Question Time.
If she keeps that up, she’ll be offside with the media in very quick time.
@skink (24 June 2010 at 4:36 pm)
The same thought occurred to me when I read that headline in the SMH. I suspect it will not be long before we are reading headlines about Australia’s first female, unmarried and childless, Prime Minister.
@David (24 June 2010 at 9:50 pm)
At the beginning of his interview with Gillard tonight, O’Brien seemed to have been channelling Richard Carlton. The brash and boorish sensationalism betrayed in his question to Gillard (“So how hard then if you became friends was it to plant the knife?”) was, it seemed to me, a calculated (and now clichéd?) variation on the question Carlton put to Hawke in 1983 (“How do you feel with blood on your hands?”). Hawke, in the indignance of his vanity, took the bait. Not so Gillard.
I get the feeling that Gillard may turn into Margaret Thatcher sooner than I imagined.
Everyone seems to be forgetting the role that Wayne Swan plays in all of this. He was Kevin Rudd’s good and loyal deputy (and best mate) and look what he’s done. I’ve always believed that loyalty and friendship the only things that separates us from animals.
What does today make Wayne Swan?
Yet again my poor grammar has crueled my argument. That should read “I’ve always believed that loyalty and friendship ARE the only things that separate us from animals.”
I apologize for my bad education.
Todays events will cause a significant reaction against Labor. Even committed Labor voters will think again about voting for them. The ALP website has lots of comments from disgusted former labor voters. I am personally disgusted at the arrogance of the factions and Unions.
She has always been more Thatcher than Thatcher, I don’t know why people don’t get that.
Julia Gillard = Malibu Stacey with a new hat…
@The Duke: “What does today make Wayne Swan?”
A: Julie Bishop.
And I hope David Marr is proud of himself for a gratuitous hatchet job.
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-wastes-a-perfectly-good-pm-20100624-z0nx.html
Gillard can’t get left or right.
David Marr is a sanctimonious grub.
“Elan:
No wonder you sympathise with Marilyn; you spit at everyone else with the same, withering, know-it-all contempt, and defend her appalling manners.” KNACKEREDSTUPIDO.
“Elan you can be assured of one thing in your pathetic sad life, PM Gillard and former PM Rudd have a hellava lot more people who will always look up to and respect them, than your grizzling negative nothing self. Alas the world will always have its share of your type, where the genes are associated with things that crawl along the ground.” WEE DAVY.
Do you two have to be so damned predictable? Jeez!
(Hey Knackered…I reckon I must have got my spitting habits from your diminutive brained pal here, wee Davy. Hey Davy….my genes have too much class to visit your territory).
You two are always out front when it comes to ganging up on other posters, like petty little schoolyard bullies! And like them, you don’t have the collective nouse to realise that you are in no position to criticise!!
Plonker’s!
___________________________
We have a lamentable group of politicians, they set lousy examples to the people. Was it ever any better?
Let’s see what Gillard does. Let’s see how she plans to appease the mineco’s first off. That will happen quickly. She wants to remain PM, and she needs them to be happy.
Priorities are so important.
Rudd’s fate was similar to that of Peter Garrett. Kevin Rudd was a lightening rod that was attracting constant attack. He, like Peter, didn’t do anything wrong but the attacks were savage and constant not just by the Liberals but also by the media - including the ABC. The polls showed that the people were beginning to believe the lies that they were being told. The switch to Julia might stop the bleeding. What David Marr wrote wasn’t all that bad but his words were taken out of context, repeated, exaggerated and distorted until people believed that Kevin was a rampaging maniac likely to rip off the arms of pensioners. It had to stop.
Wasn’t this “night of the long knife”, wielded by the same bunch of “party animals” that gave us Rudd in the first place, and much the same delivered Latham?
How many practices do these “privileged puppeteers” want, or think they deserve, before they get can it right - or “get the f**k out of the road”, for someone with a few brains and a bit of true altruism to have a go at “their toy”, for the benefit of the party and country?
shepherdmarilyn
Posted Thursday, 24 June 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink
“While the media were having their little assassinations the parliament voted to upgrade more concentration camps.
Hope they are all fucking happy with their incessant bleating about a few thousand refugees.”
I agree with you! I find it quite amusing, that some adults take exception to your ‘language’ when they either;
a) use these words themselves quite frequently, or
b) watch TV shows or DVD’s with more colourful language than you used?
I think you were on topic when you linked Julia Gillard to her response to asylum seekers? You were giving your opinion re her ‘principles’?
I understand your frustration at the incessant lies, misrepresentations, cruel and inhumane treatment of asylum seekers by politicians and msm - it frustrates the hell out of me too. I’ve followed the whole shameful saga since 2001 (I know your fight has been longer than this) and, I think, like you I’ve educated myself about this shameful situation!
I was outraged and irritated by Kerry O’Brien asking yet more questions about asylum seekers based on bullshit and lies! And Julia Gillard continued the lies - she had an ideal opportunity to make some truthful statements to the “Australian people”?
Keep on fighting! At least some people speak out for the abuse of human rights of other human beings - it appears that many here think it’s more of a crime to say ‘the magic word’ than break many laws and agreements re persecuted people seeking refuge - they ignore the 96% who arrive by plane!!And so it goes one!
On the other side of the Pacific I have enjoyed explaining this to those interested. Most are stunned at the speed, though I have to say that the pressure was building and the rapidity was mostly the speed of the axe, not the fact that the axe was poised to fall. David Marr’s hatchet job on Rudd certainly signaled something in the offing. Opinion polls added fuel, but it’s probably safe to say that as long as Rudd wasn’t backed by a faction his tenure was always in doubt.
Internationally, Rudd’s leadership on the Apology will always stand as a significant moment. In symbolic terms it was an outstanding day, one that won Australia accolades. The failure to make serious inroads in indigenous health and well being is not Rudd’s failure, but every Australian government’s failure.
Too bad Rudd is treated as the Prime Minister had to have. He probably deserves better than this.
Morning all. So who’s the PM today?
Sorry that should read
“Too bad Rudd is treated as the Prime Minister Australia had to have. He probably deserves better than this.”
@ David - good to see that you continue to make worthwhile contributions to Crikey under one of your pseudonym’s… I join the chorus of other bloggers and wonder why the administrators allow you to continue your puerile junk.
For those that say that Gillard is being well received by the electorate… please direct us all to your source.. if you read news.com, by all means NOT a quality news site, you will see nothing but disdain for her and the ALP. I’d say the ALP goose is cooked and will likely be a 1 term government.
the question I’d like all lefties to answer is whether Rudd, in their humble opinion, has been a worse PM than Whitlam…? hard question, I know, but is he, is it possible? where does he rank with our other PM’s?
I thought the Coalition was a rabble for a while… sheesh… what an embarassment to our country the ALP is turning out to be. The leadership spill has also been given airplay on the BBC and the Evening Standard - a trashy paper in the UK given to tube commuters a la the MX.
At the end of the day, Rudd deserved to be dumped and was never fit to be PM. Costello was right all along, “he stands for nothing” which was probably, his downfall.
On another note, I am sad to see Tanner resign. He was about the only ALP front bencher with a bit of spine that was not full of spin.
@napoleon dynamite….”I thought the Coalition was a rabble for a while…” you are up too early, go back to bed. Coalition continues to be a joke/rabble and the sooner they dump phoney Tony for Malcolm Turnbull the sooner they will become competitive across Australia now that Queen Julia has taken over the reigns.
Phoney Tony is a puppet for the billionaire bosses and Australians can see that clearly and will punish his lot at the next election.
The Greens zealots have gotten another scalp on their belt - Lindsay Tanner, a star performer. Shame on you lot. They should join the NSW right and take over Australia. Then we could all return to the dark ages roaming the forests in search of a scrap of food.
Long live Queen Julia I, may she reign over us for a very long time…..at least until the neo-cons grow out of their neanderthal state and let MT take over.
Gillard needs to be judged as the 2IC of the worst government this country has seen. Today we’re celebrating the first female PM which is a fantastic achievment for her, but that should not desolve her of her record.
She should still be held to account for her part in putting this country in debt to the tune of hundreds of thousands of millions of our dollars.
If you think the tax increase is what is ‘fair’ for all Australians, you’ve just been spun. It’s to grab back the money that we see filling our tips in the form of pink batts and over priced school halls.
Had we not gone into so much debt for so little return, our mining industry would continue to produce and return as it has since the boom started several years ago.
Liz45:
You’ve completely missed the point.
On a thread like this, there’s a big difference between using four-letter words in casual water-cooler banter … and using them to denigrate, insult, abuse and bark at people, as Marilyn does. That distinction has been made before. But far worse is yesterday’s revelation that she denigrated, insulted, abused and barked at Julia Gillard in 2002 … and then acts all aghast that Julia brushed her off.
That demonstrates a terminal failure of common courtesy for the purposes of trying to influence others. Self righteousness doesn’t give anyone carte blanche to be personally abusive. That’s why she’s being criticised, and that behaviour bears no comparison to the colourful language I (and others) occasionally use here.
Context is everything.
@Napolean…only the one me old chap. only needs one to get up your nostrils, dont need cover versions. You start with an attack then expect a salvo back. Nightie night.
“Context is everything”
Oh I say! How fraightfully! fraightfully! A lesson in courtesy, and from Knackered to boot!! Don’ that beat all!
Has it even crossed your mind that MS is unlikely to be ‘aghast’ at any damn thing a ‘tishun says or does? Does it even occur to you that when working at the coalface with the disenfranchised,- the callous reaction of a LABOR Minister is likely to incur the reaction that it did?
( Or do you hold the view that these officials we are forced to elect to office, that should be ‘by the people-for the people’ ….; be treated deferentially?? )
I don’t need to defend MS or L45; but what you see is the predictable reaction of people who have seen the most traumatized in our society,-and are left with little patience for those who show what they really are, when not in a photo call or pressconf.
And of course such concerns are completely on topic. It is entirely relevant to express concern about the attitude of anyone in a position of power, particularly when that power has been achieved through political backstabbing.
_________________________________________
Gillard will not show her full mettle until her position is secured by reelection. Then we’ll see. In the meantime all she needs to do is show compassion for ‘ordinary folk’ whilst sweet talking the mineco’s.
@Billy Blogs
Oh, please! “the worst government this country has seen”?
Have you looked OUTSIDE Australia recently? Seen the economic devastation in countries like the US and the UK? Not to mention Spain, Portugal, Greece etc etc?
And how are we travelling? Pretty darned well! While you may try and pretend this had nothing to do with the current government, most independent economic commentators say differently.
I suppose you’re next going to claim that it was the mining companies that kept Australia out of recession? And that we should now reward them by lowering their tax rates even further in abject gratitude? Riiiight!
Napoleon, when you say ‘our country’ do you mean the one you live in or the one you feel the need to comment on from afar?
Elan:
Diplomacy beats anger every time.
Which means being pragmatic about actually, you know, achieving outcomes, instead of just feeling satisfied with waving a placard, mouthing off and shaking your fist.
@Billy Bloggs
The level of public debt in Australia is orders of magnitude lower than most of the rest of the “developed”. Compare our government debt with pretty much anyone in Europe or the US (check out http://internal.clientcommunity.com.au/1/2/118/11138.html?SUB=22540) and you will see that the current Labour Government has been positively frugal in regard to managing public debt. AND Australia’s public debt is tracking in the right direction.
For all his failings, Kevin Rudd achieved more in 2 and a bit years of government than Howard achieved in 12.
You the mining boom was responsible for Howard’s success, but not our economy? Riiiight!
Rudd spent thousands of millions of dollars - where did that money come from, Rudds’s own bank account? It was our money managed by Howard and Costello produced by the miners and created by the Chinese boom.
Now we have none left, have to tax the miners more which will put our competetive advantage at risk.
We could all pay MORE tax - anyhting up to 100% I suppose, but there is a point to how long you and I would work if the tax goes up and up. I’d rather stay at home than go and work so the government can waste my money.
@merlot64….@Billy Bloggs…….where has Billy been sleeping for the last few years and during the GFC? The debts Australia has is minute compared to 99.99% of other countries…and is a ‘good’ debt..it has kept Mums and Dads in work, families earning incomes and helped small business and the ungrateful billionaire mining bosses. The ‘rorting’ by Australian contractors issue; is that Gillard’s problem? What about the rorters? These people are all Australians, and no doubt many of them would now be complaining about the huge debt piled up by the Government. …….And the ordinary working Australians who allow themselves to be used by the mining bosses in their ads, where on earth is their head-space?
Government’s need to spend when the rest of the ‘greedy dopes’ stop, that keeps the economy going and prevents widespread unemployment and misery spreading to all but the very/super rich - that is what Government are elected to do - regulate the economy for the benefit of the people; NOT Phoney Tony and his ‘flat earther’ lot, not the Big miners, not the big banks et al…….AND who got that lot out of serious trouble when they simply could not go cold turkey on the money greed drug? The public purse did, ie the little Mums and Dads bailed out the BIG spenders and kept most of them from going under and having to give up the big mansions, expensive mistresses, cars, farms, race horses, private jets, extravagant lifestyles etc etc….and now they complain??? Please, give us all a break. Spare US from this hypocrisy.
When the better times return, ie post GFC and hopefully we will not get a double-dip, then the spending slows and stops and the budget returns to surplus, ready for the next excess by the BIG and super greedy, banks, miners et al………Is that so difficult to understand? I think even phoney Tony can cope with this, but of course they have another Agenda…….and don’t care if they send Australia into a very deep recession….they figure that such dire circumstances will be in their favour……..destroy everything so that they can prosper politically….and some us even believe that stuff……Wow! we have a long way to go with our education system in this country for that lot of neanderthals No doubt they also want to re-introduce the inquisition, crusades and death to anybody who dares to believe that the earth revolves around the Sun….and burning ‘heretics’ at the stake.
Back to sleep, you nonce.
@ SBH - are you suggesting that I lose my interest in Australia? is, that really how you think? if so, why? please tell, I and other Australians that live and work overseas look forward to your rationale.
@ Spare Us - my thoughts exactly, you expended too much energy concentrating on the bubbles but you forgot the froth. Given your economic nous, no doubt gained from the multitude of sources available worldwide - refer EY, KPMG, ANZ, Citibank, IMF, you would understand that for there to be a ‘double dip’, and I’m sure you mean ‘double dip recession’, you need to have actually been in a recession - are you saying that we are/were in a recession? there is daily, albeit diminishing concern, about a double dip recession in ‘some’ parts of the Euro Zone, but not in Australia. Also, are you saying that the left will return the budget to surplus? just wondering as you’ll know, history isn’t overly favourable…!!
@SPARE US:
“The ‘rorting’ by Australian contractors issue; is that Gillard’s problem?”
Yes. If you hold a door open for rorters, whose fault is it when they walk through it?
“And the ordinary working Australians who allow themselves to be used by the mining bosses in their ads, where on earth is their head-space?”
They like having jobs.
“AND who got that lot out of serious trouble when they simply could not go cold turkey on the money greed drug?”
A top quality competitive workforce, coordinated by a top quality competitive business culture, and supported by the naturally optimistic Australian consumer. Who didn’t worry too much when Swan started shouting “Inflation! Alarum! Women and children out first!”
@napoleon dynamite……”are you saying that we are/were in a recession?”
..Of course I am not. Blind Freddy knows that the Australian Government spent up BIG to avoid a recession here, AND succeeded!!!!…and I am thankful they did otherwise there would have been the ugly scenes as we have seen throughout the euro-zone countries. Also glad that phoney Tony’s lot was not in Government as they no doubt would have done as they kept urging the Government to do, ie DON’T spend all that stimulus money. Great that would have been!! Economic geniuses they are NOT.
Kevin et al called that GFC, and the policy response to it, just beautifully, even elegantly, and for that alone they should be re-elected in a few months time. Are Australians grateful for that GREAT policy call on our behalf?; it would seem not? How fickle they are now that it seems we are ‘out of the dire economic woods’.
The Government has set a Budget course to return the budget to surplus when the economy is out of ‘danger’, which is the correct policy response, AGAIN! AND if those greedy billionaires would stop doing everything in their power to wreck the stock market, we could all be a whole lot better off, soon. BUT they are hell bent of getting a few more billions for them selves and the rest of us can go to hell and rot…or jump in one of their big holes. Phoney Tony seems quite happy with their behaviour, and he wants us to take his lot seriously….you have got to be kidding, I can spot a phoney a mile away and it speaks like a phoney and walks like phoney, it most likely is a phoney.
Australians certainly cannot take a chance on these illiterates. With Malcolm Turnbull in the cockpit it would be a different ball game.
History (or herstory) is a useful tool, but is not always a perfect predictor of the future….Queen Julia I is a fiscal conservative and will ensure the budget returns to surplus. If not we get a chance to boot her out at next election. Called democracy.
@powerisnotstrength……..are you serious? If I leave my door unlocked it is OK for robbers to walk in and help themselves? NOT in this country mate….there laws against such behaviuour. Sorry I assumed that you live in Australia, not some third world failed nation. Guess you would also be supporting the view that when women get raped it is their fault? I think you need to re-assess your world view old china.
They like jobs? Who doesn’t/ So what you are inferring is that they were ‘bullied’ into this….do this or you will lose your job?? Now that is just great and dandy, what moral high ground that is? If you are saying that the ‘fair go’ tax is going to kill the mining industry, try switching on the neuron again and stop listening to the billionaires…..you need to do your own thinking, a fully functioning democracy relies on it….
Australian Workforce had a huge part to play and so did their confidence in the economy not falling into a recession….and who made sure that did not happen? Yep! The top quality Australian Government who got this call right……can they do it again? But they are certainly a better bet than phoney Tony’s mob of economic illiterates.
A fiscal conservative. Now where have I heard that before?
Kevin Rudd Downfall video spoof, second on the list of most popular
http://www.metacafe.com/most_popular/
Fairfax also carrying the Rudd video
http://www.smh.com.au/national/rudd-tweets-his-thanks-to-supporters-20100625-z9hm.html?autostart=1
Kevin Rudd meets his Downfall
Kevin Rudd’s fall from top job has been humourously honoured through the popular internet meme Downfall.
Why do people like Billy Blogs comment about economic matters when they have no understanding at all? Ever notice how its Liberal voters who make the most uniformed and ignorant comments about economic policy?
SAUSAGE MAKER,
Funnily enough, no I haven’t noticed that. What the average voter needs to know about economics is not rocket science.
If you get to hold what you earn, not pay more than half of it in tax so some legend in his own mind can blow it on insulation schemes, then you and everyone around you will be so much better off that about 75 per cent of government spending becomes irrelevant.
If businesses that win the competition have to drop back and carry those that lose, then competition ceases to be meaningful and mediocrity sets in.
There’s a lot more to economics than that of course, but the average voter can make a pretty good choice based on that much understanding.
Sausage Maker wants us to think that he is the Saul Eslake of Crikey but feel free to improve on what “people like Billy Blogs” have to offer….
Oscar: None of those countries were left with a surplus such as Australia had back in 07’
KRudd got through the GFC (and it ain’t over yet) because he had the resources to do so in the first place! The past 6 months has been deadly in the retail sector, never have i experienced such a downturn in business as i have witnessed since Christmas. Everyone has been nervous as we watched KRudd commit political hari kari and blow his massive popularity with the people and within his own party. His ETS was an insult to every Australian and then he takes on the mining industry! WTF? He put his own head on the block, and it was correctly chopped off! All Julia has to do is give her colleagues some time to do their respective jobs and we might actually start moving forward from this mess. KRudd was an octopuss, he tried to do 8 things at once and ended up doing none of them properly, it happens in business all the time. These people call that multi-tasking, i call it bollocks! Begin one job, finish it and move on to the next one satisfied that you have completed the first task properly. KRudd has no one to blame but himself, of course in his own mad mind it’s everyone else’s fault!
“Elan:
Diplomacy beats anger every time.
Which means being pragmatic about actually, you know, achieving outcomes, instead of just feeling satisfied with waving a placard, mouthing off and shaking your fist.”
………………………”Back to sleep, you nonce.”
Pretentious puffed up little prat aren’t you Knackered? And a hypocrite to boot!
You-do-not-set-the-behaviour-bar-for-a-n-y-o-n-e; got it?
Nobody can. But you willpersist won’t you?
Twot.
@powerisnotstrength……..”A fiscal conservative. Now where have I heard that before?”
I think John ‘fiscal conservative’ Howard was fond of that statement, at least in private.
I doubt that the neo-cons under Howard, or Minchin, would have tolerated the rorters in either the pink batts or School halls programme. They would have called them for what they were CHEATS and not fit to be called Australians. Greedy cheats have never been part of the Australian ethos, nor has people condoning such behaviour…..’Ah well, what did you expect? It was there for the taking?’ We Australians actually expected them to do the ‘right’ thing, ie do the job for the schools and get paid a fair rate….that’s what most of us expected.
I totally reject your ethics and morals and you should re-assess your position in Australia. You might consider joining the people smugglers overseas, they might be able to use your skills in this area.
SIR LUNCHALOT: I left this question at another post, but in case you haven’t read it…….Do you, perchance, own an eating establishment in Malvern, VIC? Electorate of Higgins?
I was driving a friend to hospital and swear I saw a restaurant bearing your name???
I was in a hurry so I didn’t have a chance to find out more than that.
¿Fabulous name for a restaurant ne c’est pas?
Sorry to interrupt the flow.
@Venise,
Nope sorry, live in the most marginal seat in Australia, Rottweiler in NSW. Sorry spell checker went wild, should be Robertson.
@SPARE US:
A few years ago a Japanese department store ventured into Australia and quickly went broke due to shoplifting. Evading tax is also a national sport because the level of taxation is outrageous, and its complexity creates lots of opportunity for cheating.
Wayne Swan having a degree in Bachelor of Public Administration, should be be familiar with the principle that you do not set up a system to create temptation, robbing tax from honest folks which they pay willingly, in order to pay crooks.
A state can gradually corrupt a decent society; look what happened in East Germany.
Goodness me, is that your idea of an insult? People smugglers?
Haven’t read every single blog on here, but enough to know that a lot of you think that B..th Julia has won, so that’s alright. Well it bloody-well isn’t!! This “whatever it takes” business is wearing very, very thin.
What is the difference between the rich and powerful (media, miners) running the country, and the just powerful NSW right doing the same thing? Answer - WE DIDN’T VOTE FOR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE TO DESTROY OUR PM. Now, I don’t care whether you think Kevin Rudd is the greatest thing since sliced bread or the biggest failure in history. The fact remains that it is the people, and only the people, who should have the ability to remove a PM. Before you all start attacking me about this view, consider what many of you write, day after day on this blog - “I don’t want Tony Abbott running the country”. NOT that you don’t want a Coalition Government, at least those of that inclination. So don’t tell me that we don’t vote with the LEADER and possible PM front and centre in our minds, because anyone with half a brain knows that the leader largely shapes the policy in a party.
Personally, having voted for Labor for 50 years, I will never vote for them again whilst Julia is PM/Opposition Leader - I shall vote informally. All of you who are parents should have a good, hard look at yourselves. What this is teaching our children is that it is okay to “assassinate” someone to get what you want. Bad news!!
Yeah, got it.
But peeling off all your personal spit and vitriol, my point still stands:
“Diplomacy beats anger every time.”
Indeed, by responding with more anger - in thundering bold type, no less - you’ve just gone and reinforced it. You can fume and froth and crap your dacks to your heart’s content, but where do you think that leaves you in the persuasion stakes?
Point zero.
But thanks for playing.
@cml
Interesting poll run by ninemsn yesterday. The biggest response I have ever seen with over 300,00 votes. Biggest I had seen before that was whether Cathy Freeman would win the 400m in 2000. I think there were 150,000 total votes that day.
Anyway by the time they changed the poll around 204,500 said they would not vote for Gillard and around 103,000 said they would.
It has certianly galvanised the punters
CML, the Labor representatives who were voted into parliament became members of the Labor Caucus, and they should have been part of the decision making.
Kevin Rudd ignored Caucus and simply used them as a voting bloc. Instead of consulting your representative and others, he formed a little clique with a few favourites and three little twerps whom nobody ever voted for except the Great Kevin.
Pride comes before a fall. One year he sticks the dagger into a leader who is sick with pancreatitis, using a tsunami and hundreds of thousands dead as his excuse; then a few years later he is dispatched with somewhat more honesty. One day he’s saying to the miners “Guys, we’ve got a very long memory,” and a week later, Caucus is saying much the same thing to him.
On top of all that, the Great Kevin had sold himself as an “economic conservative” in 2007. In other words, the Great Kevin had already embezzled the votes of the people, long before this. I see no need to shed a tear for him.
Of course when I say “your representative” I’m assuming statistically that you’re not from the seats of Griffith, Lalor, Lilley, or Melbourne, the only ones whose votes had a voice.
@ SIR LUNCHALOT (7.42pm) Thank you for info about the ninemsn poll - very interesting! The weekend papers are full of BJulia and how she is sweeping all before her. It crossed my mind that she has to maintain the honeymoon numbers. Maybe the polls taken this week don’t yet reflect what voters are actually thinking?
@ JAMES MCDONALD (8.17pm) I tried to make clear earlier that I was not concerned with Kevin Rudd’s behaviour - right, wrong or otherwise. Unless you were intimately involved in the workings of the Rudd government, like everyone else out here, you are relying on the media for info, and I don’t think the MSM has exactly covered itself in glory reporting on this government since Rudd was elected.
My point is that the so-called NSW right wing and union bosses should not have the power to remove a PM - any PM! By involving herself in this process, BJulia is tainted by the whole affair and I would question her attempt to distance herself from these low life. I think she just joined them. So I don’t intend to help her obtain a “mandate” in her own right. Consequently, as a small gesture of my displeasure, I’m withdrawing my vote.
I think the early TV polls reflect reactions to how Rudd was dumped.
Wait a month or so for the dust to settle and then let’s see what people think.
“You can fume and froth and crap your dacks to your heart’s content, but where do you think that leaves you in the persuasion stakes?
Point zero.
But thanks for playing.”
(OK. Fine. You want to twaddle on-I’ll answer).
You have such an eloquent turn of phrase Knackered, but it’s having no effect.
That’s taking time to sink in, isn’t it?
It has damn all to do with my delivery has it? You just have to be right eh?
What do reckon to Gillard as PM? How she achieved it? Whether Kevin Rudd was brutally treated?
THAT was is the topic-not how someone expresses themselves;-which is what I said. Now;-any chance you will return to the topic under discussion?
Or are we going to go on with this so-called ‘game’ ?
Interesting article in VEXNEWS …
LAZARUS: Why Kevin Rudd is sticking around:
http://www.vexnews.com/news/9840/lazarus-why-kevin-rudd-is-sticking-around/
When casting your vote at this year’s election remember that someone with extreme, often contradictory and frequently incoherent views must never be allowed to form a government.
There is unfortunately at present no viable alternative to the incumbents, regardless of their current leader!
I woke up in a sweat from a horrible nightmare. I imagined Tony with Barnaby, Joseph, Julie, Bronwyn, Philip and Wilson running the country! I am still suffering from flashbacks! It’s too terrible to contemplate!
Post Mortem Result?
They held their leader in high regard,
Watched helpless as he was daily mauled
By media and an opposition fighting hard
And dirty, with no holds barred.
And finally when he lay bleeding,
Victim of press gallery canard,
Yes, they killed him because they knew
He was near dead, so battle scarred
And bruised he could never rise again.
No choice but for the old praetorian guard
To take control and end a tragic farce.
This was no assassination.
It was an end to suffering; a ‘coup de grace’.
^
Victim of press gallery canard,
That remains to be seen after the background stories emerge.
After which, perhaps …
hoist on his own petard
… may be more applicable.
SIR LUNCHALOT: Hahahahaha!
I am amazed by how many labour voting women in my circle of friends allbeit small and totally unrepresentative are revolted by what labor has done to a popularly elected Prime Minister who delivered us from the grubby bloodstained hands of Howard. (And yes I know the westminsiter system but guess what in america you only get to vote for a candidate if you are a party member and an electoral college in the presidential race )
There is nothing that has been done by Julia so far that she could not have done by giving Kevin a metaphorical slap and then using her ‘famous’ negotiating skills to get the party and factions on board with a tweeked message.
Also I woinder whether the voting public would have accepted a superficially charming power hungry party- hack bachelor, with a string of affairs and broken homes as a suitable candidate - imagine the NEWS spin on that……
^
Also I woinder whether the voting public would have accepted a superficially charming power hungry party- hack bachelor, with a string of affairs and broken homes as a suitable candidate
Why use that description as a male equivalent to Gillard? The inference from your question is that she’s a power-hungry party-hack spinster, with a string of affairs and broken homes.
Wheres your support for that characterization of her?
Poor Mr Rudd , bad luck but this is the 200th on his downfall. Y-Tube funny.
Hi Socrates - I was saving that one for Julia, whether in the near or distant future. Something like
Faction influence finished La Gillard,
Yes, finally hoist with her own petard!
Socratease
Just wait for the headlines when the honeymoon wears off… Just in case you did not pick up the irony I was using Fox Comment and News Speak….
Big Money, Big Media Big Unions and the Israel lobby are never satisfied … more sacrifices will inevitably be demanded and the Australian electorate is basically centre right conservative. It will all out in good time, election victory or not.
While they could not assail Rudd’s private life they had no qualms accentuating the negative
deriving from:
Julia’s Assylum seeker policy (along with Ferguson)
Wayne’s RSPT
Arbib’s Reversal on emissions trading
Peter’s Insulation
Yet Julia slips in the stilletto
Well unfortunately the rules that Julia and co have set will mean that any characterisation can be made on the slimmest of foundations - or even no foundation at all - but here is a start
So just who is Julia Gillard? The inside story of the woman who became PM By Paul Toohey From: The Daily Telegraph June 25, 2010 12:00AM 47 comments
PS doesn’t anyone remember that in 45 mins at the press club Rudd completely trounced Abbott at Health reform? He would have smashed him in an election! (lets just all forget he was the only world leader who got the GFC right and he saved our banking system)
PPS The Libs greatest hope would have been and is to bring back Turnbull - can they be as steely hard as Julia?
Thanks for the inspiration Liz45 and Shepherdmarilyn (even though the swearing is not for tender ears and eyes) Posted Thursday, 24 June 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink
“While the media were having their little assassinations the parliament voted to upgrade more concentration camps.
Alright then.
I’ve got no problem with Julia at all. Next to most pollies, she’s a pleasure to listen to. I admire her wit, intellect and strength. I respect her socialist origins, but accept the pragmatism she’s needed to adopt in order to get where she is. Kevin was good, but I think Julia will be better.
As for how she got there - I’ve got no problem with that either. There’s this great chorus of people here and elsewhere (you among them) howling that she’s got blood on her hands, as if a government leadership assassination hasn’t happened in this country since 1975. What book of mythology are you reading from that says the reigns of leadership are normally politely handed from one statesman to another? It’s bullshit. The exact opposite is true.
Kevin Rudd himself was treated exactly the same way as he treated Kim Beazley in 2006. Now I’d argue Beazley is a greater man than Rudd could ever aspire be, but him getting the chop almost certainly meant the difference between the continuation of the rotten Howard dynasty, and the Labor Government we have today. Similarly, I see this event as probably saving the country from the very real and terrible threat of an Abbott Government. I’m looking forward to Gillard making mince meat of him.
Political assassinations are never pleasant business - Jesus, politics itself isn’t pleasant - but I agree with Julia when she says she acted in the best interests of the country. The dirty deed happened as cleanly and swiftly as could be hoped. And I thank her for it.
@ LacqueredStudio..thanks I am in total agreement with you.
Of course you do David.
Good post LS!
To be honest with you I don’t care. I see politicians as not in any way substantially different from one another. What you did pick-up though, is that I don’t like their nastiness.
Politics are indeed unpleasant, and what I dislike about that is the example it sets. That example is that ganging/….ah! bugger it! you know the rest.
It is the effect on society that concerns me. It validates this type of behaviour. Bullying is increasing dramatically. It always existed of course-but not like it is today, where it is being indirectly endorsed by political behaviour, and by refusal of bureaucracies to even recognise it is happening.
This is frustrating and dangerous. It has led to the suicide of many young kids. And it got to that because the bullying was incessant.
You don’t think there is a connection?
Well I do.
(PS: Is it only non-members who get that bloody pop-up that blacks out the screen and cajoles (!!) one to become a member? What a ****).
You think Rudd was rough on Beazley? See above what he did to Latham, with the connivance of most of the parliamentary ALP.
Whatever you think of Latham, whatever the merits of replacing him as leader, the way it was done went beyond the pale even for the ALP, and goes some way to explaining his bitterness ever since. A disgraceful episode for the whole gang of them.
By comparison, Rudd was given chance after chance to redeem himself; his only response was to quietly try shoring up his numbers against a possible Gillard challenge — which at that stage she had ruled out. That seems to have been what changed her mind.
Elan:
No, I think that connection sounds pretty tenuous, at best. Bullying, you say? Maybe it is getting worse, but bullying begins in primary school. And I don’t know of a single young kid who pays the slightest bit of attention to parliamentary politics, let alone takes their cues from it. Do you?
James McDonald:
Exactly.
And I’m not buying this line that what’s an expected part of the game for a Leader of the Opposition an everyone else … is somehow an unacceptable injustice for the Prime Minister. And to hear Tony Abbott sanctimoniously pretend as much in Friday’s Question Time - without a hint of irony - just reinforces my contempt for him.
I did not suggest for a minute that kids are riveted to Parliament question time.
I am talking about a culture of bullying that starts with these political creatures. And it is bullying. Parliamentary behaviour State/Fed ably demonstrates bullying. That it appears to be an acceptable part of our society, is why it is so pernicious.
So?; are we going to have a deep and meaningful on this now LS?
Elan:
D&M on bullying? Well, seeing as you’ve brought it up …
I’m arguing that the culture of bullying begins in the schoolyard and carries through into adulthood. I’m arguing that politics is today as it always has been - nothing’s changed. I’m arguing that the rot doesn’t begin with parliamentary behaviour and that there’s no one cause that you can point to as such. And I’d argue that far from being able to be summed up in a neat linear top-down diagram from parliament to kids … the bullying problem is much more a symptom of a huge lattice of small, interwoven social factors that feed on, and into, each other.
So as simply and broadly as I possibly can … I think society is steadily taking on the cold, emotionless traits of the machines it increasingly depends on to function. As far as we move forward in media, communication and information technology, we paradoxically appear to be moving back to a Spartan, unemotional, self-interested, law-of-the-jungle world in equal measure.
Now I would never argue for a return to an imagined technophobe, pre-agrarian utopia. But these challenges are the price we pay for luxury of modernity. It’s just the way it is. Which is why I think the issue of bullying goes far deeper and wider than the superficial influence of politicians.
Elan,
I can see where you’re coming from but I don’t agree. The theory proceeds from labelling our elected rulers/administrators as “leaders”.
The last leader in Canberra was Bob Hawke. Here’s a man who said “Buy Australian!” and that’s what we did. He didn’t even need to make a law about it; people believed in him and did what he said just because he said it. Then came “Keep Australia beautiful!” and littering was no longer socially acceptable. Finally the one that really counted: “We’ve got to become the clever country.” Australians went and got educated in droves, and suddenly realized that politicians were just ordinary people with no special wisdom.
Since then, politicians have been seen as objects of almost universal contempt, at best competent administrators or rulers. This applies even to the few who really were gifted and really did great things, like Paul Keating whose economic revolution is still not widely understood even today.
“I’m arguing that the culture of bullying begins in the schoolyard and carries through into adulthood.”
…………….and I’m arguing as to why that is! You put up an eloquent argument on the many and varied reasons for bullying, which may or may not be valid. It is essentially your opinion. I am giving mine.
We seem to have a propensity for looking for complexity. Sometimes it isn’t there;-sometimes it is.
I DO see this as simple. The most public of figures demonstrate the most dominant and sometimes cruel behaviour. Children are not born bullies. They learn the behaviour. They learn it from others; they learn it from parents. Where do they pick it up?
Solely from politicians…; well of course not! But I argue that politicians are the most public exponents of domineering behaviour.
The most public behaviours in our society;-the most public anything, sets the benchmark.
“I think society is steadily taking on the cold, emotionless traits of the machines it increasingly depends on to function. As far as we move forward in media, communication and information technology, we paradoxically appear to be moving back to a Spartan, unemotional, self-interested, law-of-the-jungle world in equal measure.
This is excellent! Here we agree. (And it does fit with what I’m saying).
But these challenges are the price we pay for luxury of modernity. It’s just the way it is.
Here we do not!
‘It’s the way it is’ happens to be my favourite saying,-but I don’t allow it as the excuse for mature intelligent adults to set the examples that they do.
And not for one nanosecond do I believe we can’t do anything about it. We won’t do anything about it, because most of us do not see it as wrong.
Your turn.
James Mc: you don’t have to like them to subconciously emulate the way they behave!
I agree with you LS? Of course there’s the axeing of Nelson and Turnbull. The LIBS are as vicious as Labor is! I suppose it’s easy to be wise after the event. I have a dread of Abbott and his extreme right wing, such as Minchin & Co winning the next election, that I welcome the change, even though my heart went out to Kevin Rudd during his media presentation - took guts! I admire that!
However, having said that, I don’t condone arrogant and bullying behaviour by any adult - not while they preach to and at kids about striving to be the opposite! ‘Children Learn What They Live’the poem says!! True! Kids who are on the receiving end of bullying have been driven to suicide, which is just tragic - such a waste of a young life. I think all adults need to be mindful of the importance of setting an example to children - of all ages. My kids used to ‘stand me up’ if I was exercising double standards? Most of the time they had a point, and we’d discuss it. Sometimes I’d ‘pull rank’ if it was to do with safety etc - but still discuss it! That’s how they learn to be sensible and mature (and just) adults?
Elan:
I should have made myself more clear. Please read again: “These challenges are the price we pay for luxury of modernity. It’s just the way it is.”
Not that the status quo is our lot in modern life; that we should all just put up with the way things are … but that the task of improving it is. I’m saying that every generation has its dilemmas, and that this is one of ours.
Liz45:
Politics is not a family. It’s a battle ground. Always has been, always will be. So any attempt to reshape it along family values will always be doomed to disappointment. I admire your convictions and integrity - I share them too - but I also understand that trying to make our elected representatives embody those same principles will always be a disappointing exercise.
Do you really think that Kevin Rudd would have secured the party mandate and led it to victory in 2007 had he not been vicious? Really? What would you be explaining to your kids now, had someone not rolled up their sleeves to do some dirty work in 2006; to help guarantee you didn’t have to explain to them why the country was still run by an arsehole after 11 years? How would your principles of honorable behaviour be enjoying Howard’s legacy right now?
Again, kids don’t get their cues from politicians. Never have. They get them from their family, their peers, and the stuff they watch on TV (and they don’t watch politics).
Despite my solid Green vote, I understand that in my lifetime, I will probably never get to see an Australia that reaps the economic rewards of being ahead of the curve on renewable energy and weening ourselves off polluting fossil fuels. Which is why I look for incremental progress - a policy here, a slightly left-of-Rudd PM there, and hopefully a Green balance of power in the near future. Because the inch-by-inch is the only way things seem get done in this beautiful country. (Which also explains why I couldn’t be damned with the revolutionary Green Left Weekly / Resistance crowd after about a year, some 20 years ago.)
OK. ‘challenges/improving’. Fine.
Better than nothing.