Abbott’s new Pacific Solution
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Liberal MP Petro Georgiou has slammed Tony Abbott’s back-to-the-Howard-era policy on asylum seekers, saying it is “cruel” and “victimises the persecuted”. “It does not have my support,” Georgiou said after this morning’s release of the new policy by Abbott, Scott Morrison and Philip Ruddock. Under the policy, the Pacific Solution is set for a return under an Abbott government. But the geography is not quite accurate because the Coalition has refused to identify to which country it will try to send asylum seekers, insisting that it cannot name the target country until it is in government. Asylum seekers will also again be given temporary protection visas if they arrive illegally, which could be as short as six months. The TPV will have the same punitive restrictions as in the Howard era, including no right to family reunions. The return to TPVs was announced by Malcolm Turnbull in 2009. TPVs were a notable and well-identified failure under the Howard government. They led to a 50% surge in asylum seekers coming by boat after TPVs were introduced in 1999, as the families of asylum seekers tried to reach Australia to join partners who had already reached Australia but who were not permitted to reunite with their families. TPVs were the reason so many women and children were aboard SIEV X, which sank in October 2001 trying to reach Australia, killing 288 women and children along with 65 men. The return of the Pacific Solution continues the C0alition’s obsession with preventing the ‘processing’ of asylum seeker claims on mainland Australia, despite it having no impact on the process of determining whether a claim for asylum is valid, and no impact on the legal rights of applicants. The Coalition today argued “offshore processing” deprives people smugglers of a “product to sell”, ignoring that 90% of TPV holders under the Howard government were eventually given permanent visas. Abbott also committed to “turn back the boats”; “where circumstances permit and vessels can be safely secured”. The cost for the new Pacific Solution “will be funded from within the government’s existing budget estimates and projections,” the Coalition said this morning. The original policy, under which the cost of processing each applicant was about $500,000, was estimated to have cost around $1 billion over five years, adding substantially to the pressure on the Coalition’s so-far limited savings initiatives. |
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131 Comments
“But the geography is not quite accurate because the Coalition has refused to identify to which country it will try to send asylum seekers, insisting that it cannot name the target country until it is in government”.
Someone should ask Julie Bishop.
I agree Howard’s policies failed.
Since he left the number of “interceptions” by Australian officials of illegal boat entries has risen exponentially.
Rudd has improved our “interception” abilities immeasurably.
Rudd has succeeded.
I predict that under Abbott, Howard’s “failure” will resurface and “interceptions” will sadly fall away once again.
Sadly Rudd’s monumental success at “intercepting” has not been quite enough to save at the very minimum 50 known human beings who have lost their lives at sea before they could be “intercepted”
Unlike the current Government’s efforts, the so-called Pacific Solution’ did result in the number of asylum seeker boats (SIEVs) drying up.
For all of the pros and cons, it did work, reducing the flow of boats and shoring up support for the Government’s increased refugee intake.
The continued flood of boats makes the community uneasy over who controls the refugee process. If they feel it is the Government (“we decide who is comes to this country”) then they have more confidence in the regugee intake program as a whole.
If on the other hand they get the impression that it is the refugees who control the process, by holding the Government to ransom ala the Sri Lankans in Indonesia who got accelerated processing into Australia, then that undermines the entire refugee intake program.
These F — - Wits just never learn. To include ’ The Ghost Who Walks ‘, Ruddock in his announcement this morning, Abbott served to remind and emphasise a return to the disgraceful days of that turd Howards policies so expertly gestapo like engineered by Ruddock, Vandstone and the other refugee from the Jesuits, Andrews. If this team of head kickers now joined by Morrison, are not seen for what they are, then I despair for this country if by some cruel turn of the screw Abbotts morons fell into power.
I await with interest ShepherdMarilyn’s reaction to this cruel policy.
“arrive illegally”? Bernard, I really hope that was a quote, not your thoughts.
An asylum seeker can (try to) remain here illegally after their visa application has been refused, but they do not ARRIVE illegally http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/s36.html
Abbott has just stamped himself as the Great Big New Turd.
His behavior reviles and disgusts me. This coming from a man who professes to be a Christian who has obviously never heard of the basis to all Christianity, the Golden Rule ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’
Australia is now quite devoid of leaders.
But what else could “Torquemada” do - last week it was O’Brien (how may of those Irish boat people on “that map” of his, before “this”?), then the “Laurel and Hardy Tribute Show” (from his “Shadowy Treasury” team of “Handy Andy” and “Very Average Joe”), and last Tuesday it was “Cut and Paste” Julie “Scissorhands” (alternate “Foreign Affairs Minister”) not understanding a three word question, in another “audition” - but tighten that noose another notch, flanked by more of his “A Team”, in “Lucky Phil” (“The Ghost who Stalks”) and Scott “Reith-Morrison”?
The core of this policy is based on a false premise. It is not illegal for asylum seekers to land in Australia by boat or by plane and apply for refugee status when they get here. This is covered by Australian and international law.
Simply put, asylum seekers are not “illegal immigrants”.
If asylum seekers have broken the law, ie acted illegally, by coming to Australia they should be charged, prosecuted in court and deported. This never happens because they have not acted illegally.
If the Libs can’t get their heads around this concept they are definitely not fit for government.
I don’t know if they continue to push the “illegal immigrant” barrow out of ignorance or they are wilfully playing to ignorant in the community. Either way it is not acceptable.
Going on their record under Howard, and their desperation to score points now, it is not reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Of course Abbott follows the example of the toad in the hope of capturing some of his votes. if he divides the Australian community in the process that’s OK as it is all for the greater good ie. getting him into power. He will not however get disaffected Labor votes and so will ultimately fail. I note MJ’s mealy mouthed justifications for this crap and dismiss them out of hand.
@ROSSCO…You have got it, they are indeed playing to the ignorant in the community. Turd Howard got away with it until finally the electorate woke up to the wank, now Abbott is hoping it will work for him. It is sickening.
Bernard,
why do you lazily repeat this old canard - “Asylum seekers will also again be given temporary protection visas if they arrive illegally”.
They are not arriving illegally, they are coming to our border and applying for asylum. I’ll bet there’s a significant number of people who are ‘true’ illegal immigrants, both overstayers and those who arrive by boat, by stealth, and aren’t silly enough to identify themselves - nor destitute enough to get on a floating sardine can. But boat arrivals don’t fall into this category - they are arriving legally and applying for a (refugee) visa at our border.
And it might also be worth pointing out that only around 10% of asylum applicants arrive by boat; the great majority - with a much lower rate of successful application - arrive by plane on business, tourist, student, etc. visas.
Crikey, at least, should not be repeating the same old bullsh*t we constantly hear from the corporate and publicly-owned media.
Onya Petro
This is also based on the fucking queue jumper rant that Ruddock sold before, and it was not a 50% increase before, it jumped from 921 at the time of introduction to 4,100 or so the following year and the joint committee on migration noted in March 2000 in the Not the Hilton report that many more women and children were coming by sea because of the TPV regime.
This is the reality of the rights of those deemed to be refugees in other countries - they have no right at all to ever come to Australia unless their protection is withdrawn from the host country.
“many refugees seek resettlement to a country such as Australia. Refugees do not have a right to be resettled, and states are not obliged under the 1951 Refugee Convention or any other instrument to accept refugees for resettlement. It is a voluntary scheme co-ordinated by the UNHCR which, amongst other things facilitates burden-sharing amongst signatory states. Resettlement therefore complements and is not a substitute for the provision of protection to people who apply for asylum under the Convention.
According to the UNHCR, less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees may be resettled in any given year:”
Figures supplied by DIAC show that of 1319 claims on Christmas Island that were settled from 1 July to 9 February 1253 were refugees without benefit of lawyers or legal rights and 66 were refused and deported.
A further 110 were denied but 22 were granted status on appeal while others still have appeals in train.
There is something missing in the coalitions brains and the ALP are scarcely any better but our MSM are the worst on the planet.
Not one of them has ever pointed out that the refugee convention has been given force in the Migration Act. Yesterday Evans claimed in estimates that he has legal advice that discrimination under Article 3 of the refugee convention is legal, he said that to Sarah Hanson-Young who is not only a lawyer but worked for Amnesty International for 4 years before entering politics.
Today Tony Abbott said he didn’t want to punish the desparate people wanting a new life, he wanted to punish Rudd, but Rudd wouldn’t be locked up in a foreign country, denied all legal rights and tortured with temporary protection.
Human rights watch did a report on the TPV regime and found it to be completely illegal.
I want to know which part of “everyone has the right to seek asylum from persecution in other countries” is too difficult for this moron country to understand.
Obviously real action on refugees is not effective action.
Abbott tries to look hairy-chested but only succeeds in looking butt-ugly.
Actually Michael you imbecile. It is the torturers who run the process by torturing people in the first place but we jump into bed with them and pay them aid and comfort while locking up their victims.
You really do talk the most useless frigging prattle old son. Do you expect that people will sit around and wait for us to decide they are allowed to come here.
I will place this here yet again so maybe Bernard might read it to and stop with the fucking illegal bit.
61 The Refugees Convention is a part of conventional international law that has been given legislative effect in Australia: see ss 36 and 65 of the Act. It has always been fundamental to the operation of the Refugees Convention that many applicants for refugee status will, of necessity, have left their countries of nationality unlawfully and therefore, of necessity, will have entered the country in which they seek asylum unlawfully. Jews seeking refuge from war-torn Europe, Tutsis seeking refuge from Rwanda, Kurds seeking refuge from Iraq, Hazaras seeking refuge from the Taliban in Afghanistan and many others, may also be called “unlawful non-citizens” in the countries in which they seek asylum. Such a description, however, conceals, rather than reveals, their lawful entitlement under conventional international law since the early 1950’s (which has been enacted into Australian law) to claim refugee status as persons who are “unlawfully” in the country in which the asylum application is made.
62 The Refugees Convention implicitly requires that, generally, the signatory countries process applications for refugee status of on-shore applicants irrespective of the legality of their arrival, or continued presence, in that country: see Art 31. That right is not only conferred upon them under international law but is also recognised by the Act (see s 36) and the Migration Regulations 1994 (Cth) which do not require lawful arrival or presence as a criterion for a protection visa. If the position were otherwise many of the protection obligations undertaken by signatories to the Refugees Convention, including Australia, would be undermined and ultimately rendered nugatory.
63 Notwithstanding that the applicant is an “unlawful non-citizen” under the Act who entered Australia unlawfully and has had his application for a protection visa refused, in making that application he was exercising a “right” conferred upon him under Australian law.”
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/other/HCATrans/2003/456.html?query=behrooz
GUMMOW J: What is the baggage of the word “unlawful”?
MR BENNETT: Your Honour, none. It is a word used in a definition provision, it is simply a defined phrase. It is not a phrase which necessarily involves the commission of a criminal offence.
“The ABC understands the policy was not taken to the party room before it was announced this morning.”
Amazing but strangely predictable. Abbott’s got a real low-rent Fuhrerprinzip thing going on here.
Says Abbott:
‘My argument is not with desperate people who want a better life. My argument is with the government.’’
In other words refugees are just the collateral damage of Abbott’s cynical political gamesmanship. This guy is not fit to run a school let alone a nation.
The Pacific Solution had absolutely no impact on stopping asylum seeker boats.
I’ve asked refugees and a people smuggler who were in Indonesia when TPVs and Pacific Solution came in what stopped the boats. Neither got a mention in that context.
Think about it. Pacific Solution came in at the very end of August 2001. Boats kept coming until mid December 2001. What happened in less than four months to deter anyone? Some of the people who ended up on Nauru or PNG didn’t get there till late on in the year, November or beyond.
At that time none of the asylum seekers knew what impact or otherwise the PS would have on getting resettlement. It was just another form of detention, and as much as a deterrent as mandatory detention in Australia - zilch. (Mandatory detention came in in 1992 and didn’t stop boats in 1999 to 2001).
Michael James “For all of the pros and cons, it did work, reducing the flow of boats and shoring up support for the Government’s increased refugee intake.”
True Michael, but where do you draw the line. There was much misery caused by this policy - and death as well.
Of course we could stop the boats with 100% success if we just killed everyone, so somewhere between that and total open slather is a sensible compromise. Locking people up in godforesaken holes on some pacific island is not it.
Also, how does the opposition get agreement from a foreign government to agree to do something as significant as this without the knowledge of the foreign affiars department and minister??
In other words, they hope to do a deal / bribe once they get in but forget the details for now.
“Fuhrerprinzip” says the ever predictably mind-numbing Sanderson.
Let’s see:
Arrogance and self-importance
Insane fly-of-the-handle at any moment temper
Public persona radically at variance with private
Authoritarian
Micromanagement
Capriciousness of policy
Dishonesty
Sounds like Der Krudd.
This could be a case of ‘Projection-by-proxy’ except that I rather suspect the said characteristics perfectly encapsulates the Sanderson essence in addition the krudd’s
It’s a full moon an the space cadets are out all their regalia led by St Bernard the Pious.
What part of “75% of Australians want the bastards out” don’t you get?
You will soon lose your beloved Kevin and his team of incompetents for this very reason and will ask for the next 10 years “why?”
“O” forgive me!”
Why is everybody so cruel?
Doesn’t anyone remember the good old days when this same “Torquemada - the fickle frier of fealty” helped put a stake through the heart of “Countess Pauline”, because of the blood she and her brood were sucking from “his, and that ‘Count(?)’ Howard’s party animal”, and how that left all those “One Nation orphans” and dependents, that he has to nurture now to their brand new dawn?
And, since “that bleeding heart” Fraser has been driven out, there’s a lot more room for a lot more of them!
It is again policy on the run from Abbott. Not discussed in the party room. Hockey was not informed of the policy, he called a press conference for 10-30 this morning, but cancelling it at 10-20am when informed his leader was having a press conference at 10-30am to announce their (new)? immigration policy. Not bad when you have a policy which obviously involves finance and the shadow treasurer is not in the loop. Thankfully not all Coalition members are pleased with this return to the bad days of family seperations, 6 month temp visas, towing boats back out to sea and what then more drownings? This disgraced policy will see the return of refugees put into intolerable situations, when last time Howards jack booters ignored the mental health of refugees locked up for years. As Liberal MP Petro Georgiou said this morning, Tony Abbott’s back-to-the-Howard-era policy on asylum seekers, is “cruel” and “victimises the persecuted”.
Do they actually want to make sure they lose the election?
Bela, unlike most people on this site, I have personal experience of fishing the misery that is the cargo of SIEV’s out of the water, so I understand better than most what these people go through.
I find your suggestion that we kill people to stop them coming personally repugnant, especially as RAN personnel put their lives at risk saving people when their boat exploded of the WA coast. Don’t blame the service people for enacting the policies of whoever happens to be in power in Canberra.
I had not stated my opinion on the humanity or otherwise of the ‘Pacific Solution’, simply that it was seen by the majority of the voters as stopping the people smuggling trade.
My concern is that the numbers of asylum seekers arriving by boat undermines the public’s faith in Australia’s system of accepting refugees from elsewhere, who may have a better claim, but not the cash to pay people smugglers.
Australia has a reasonable record in accepting refugees from overseas, however the perception that arriving by boat means a fast track to refugee status and eventual Australian citizenship undermines the public’s support for that program.
This announcement is scarcely news, I’d describe it as a lamentable foregone conclusion.
policy on the run…doesn’t consult the party room…
Tony Abbott has gone rogue!
Holden
Personally I think its more about convincing themselves that they actually stand for something. Conservatism doesn’t really work if there is nothing to conserve society from, and with Labor right in the middle they have to do this sort of thing to somehow define their reason for being the party they think they are. If organised labour isn’t a threat we can to protect the establishment from then we’ll have to invent one!
Michael, I was clearly and obviously positing an extreme position to illustrate a point, i.e. that there are always means to achieve any objective but they are not necessarily acceptable, and that in my view Abbott’s proposals have already reached that point. Not sure why you decided to take it personally, but that’s your perogative.
Australia’s record is actually not that good at all, compared with countries in Europe and Asia who have to deal with much larger numbers, but we like to comfort ourselves with myths to avoid harsh truths, it seems to be in the DNA.
Michael James,
You show your ignorance by the use of the words “a better claim”. Either you have a claim for refugee status or you don’t. If your claim is accepted than it is as good as anyone else’s.
And the whole “cash to pay people smugglers” is a fallacious argument. Even if it is true that asylum seekers pay $10,000 or more to get a place on a boat, it is not hard to imagine that the money is raised by family members selling their possessions and homes in order to get one family member a place on a boat. It doesn’t mean they are rich, it just means they care about one another.
The fact that most people who sought asylum in these circumstances were actually granted asylum should put paid to the arguments that you present.
And if you don’t believe me ask Julie Bishop. She can’t help herself when it comes to telling the truth.
Michael, it is the Murdoch press and the coalition which seek to undermine the public’s faith in the system for their own cynical purposes.
I used to work within the Immigration portfolio, directly involved with asylum hearings and protection applications in general.
To get through the cruel, bureaucratic process that our various agencies impose upon asylum-seekers means you have a VERY strong case - and most boat arrivals do get through that process.
Those people were not rich, economic migrants - their destitute extended families often pooled their meagre resources into one person in the hope that that person could escape with their life and - yes - send some money back to enable the rest to get back to some sort of hand-to-mouth life rather than utter destitution.
If you were rich, you would get a business visa and fly here, extend your visa as much as possible then apply for asylum when all else failed, stay another year or so, drag things out and in that time hopefully one of your other options would have worked out (successful applications from this class of applicant were fairly rare).
This demonisation of the most vulnerable is contemptible, particularly from the mob who are always talking about Anzacs and ‘Aussie values’. Fair go, indeed!
OBLIZZARD
Agreed, but Labour is bleeding the votes of people who want action on climate change, who will not be won over by this sort of thing. It will have no effect on the Liberal’s rusted-on base, and possibly lose them more than a few ‘doctors’ wives’, to use their hideous locution.
Everyone has the right to seek asylum. End of fucking story.
Why the hell do morons have to make that so complicated.
And it is not people smuggling. I will gut the next person who says we should punish victims of persecution and torture because we call seeking asylum “people smuggling”.
No0-one is fucking smuggled.
And excuse my language, but the morons have had 10 years of their mindless drivel being proved wrong over and over again and they spout out the same old tripe.
I do try and be nice, play by the rules, not swear and so on but boy they make it hard.
And to add another riposte to Michael James,
As someone has pointed out on another blog, why do we always assume the asylum seekers have to be poor? In fact it is more likely that the middle class and educated are going to be targeted for abuse by totalitarian and dictatorial regimes so they would be more likely to seek asylum.
I really despair at the selfish and criminal attitude of the opposition on asylum seekers.
The term asylum seekers should be indicative as to what these people are. They are deserving of our generosity to provide a safe haven in a troubled and corrupt world.
But no, they are branded as illegals and told you do not deserve our compassion and assistance.
These politicians wouldn’t cope well if the positions were reversed.
I am appalled.
But not surprised.
@ CHRIS OWENS
But who would want multi-lingual engineers, mathematicians, doctors and dentists?
ShepherdMarilyn, that was very thorough and concise thanks. It seems others believe popular public opinion should outweigh the law. Maybe we should elect Murdoch to save us from the barbarian hordes.
@ Michael - “What part of “75% of Australians want the bastards out” don’t you get?”
That’s not actually the question that’s put in poll questions, Michael. It might give you a shiver up your spine thinking you’ve got such large, hairy thingies between your legs, but it’s not really that tough hassling defenceless people.
Most Australians, like most people anywhere, are decent people, who, in this case, are woefully misinformed by a lazy media (‘illegal immigrants’, etc.) and a manipulative political establishment. If people were aware of the individual stories of those seeking sanctuary most would want them to give them a fair go, as seen in many small towns where there has been a planned programme of asylum-seeker settlement and people have had a chance to interact on a human level.
The big tough little boy Michaels of this world are thankfully a tiny - but loud - minority.
Holden Back,
Certainly not Phony Tony.
Chris Owens
But the good people of rural Australia might.
Living in Indi, I have had the amusing spectacle of Sophie Mirabella rushing to jump on a local pro-refugee bandwagon, under the previous administration. She pushed herself forward to present a petition requesting a Kosovar family not be returned on the expiry of their TPV. Muslims, even!
Holden Back,
Good God! Did you film it?
@ BOB
Bobby dearest - your very focused on that part of my anatomy.
Clearly you care.
Wish that did it for me princess but I’m sure you’ll find a suitor here somewhere.
In the meantime leave the mean things to the grown ups and you go find yourself.
All played out in the pages of that august journal, The Border Mail. It didn’t actually improve my opinion of her, because the behaviour was basically her usual publicity-seeking.
There’s fairly active local branch of Rural Australians for Refugees in Albury, an abiding memory of the Bonegilla migrant experience, which was overwhelmingly positive, and the close-by example of a large, integrated Muslim population in Shepparton, which has taken in a large number of refugees, many of whom are now starting their own businesses. Sharman Stone - the local member there - must die a little inside each time she has to get up and deliver that vicious tripe. So remember that sometimes the common folk are much better than those who claim to represent them.
The ‘Pacific Solution’ is awfully expensive. Keeping the detention center in Nauru open for JUST ONE PERSON cost 20 million a year!!
@SHEPHERDMARILYN
Keep your knickers on kid.
We’re not asking the Govt to shoot them, just reroute them.
And by the way, just for the record and for the sake of correcting the miles of misinformation that appears here,
each ILLEGAL BOAT ARRIVAL contains on average $450,000 of merchandize.
That’s 30 ILLEGALS @ $15,000
Yes, that’s what they each pay - not the sort of poverty associated with true refugees who are homeless, destitute & unable to bribe their way into OZ.
I don’t know how many people would have noticed that Tony Abbot emphasised (TWICE) that his ‘policy’ is not against the refugees but against Mr. Rudd.
Tony Abbot, you’ve made my day!!
What should be remembered, though, that the Howard extravaganza called Pacific Solution was one of the most expensive political stunts in the history of Australia. We paid for the idiotic detention centres (construction and running); we bribed some Pacific governments, Mr. Keelty admitted he had paid Indonesian peoples’ smugglers; and the amount of unforgivable errors committed by the Department turned out pretty costly… see: Vivien Alvarez compensation payout. False statements, government propaganda and the total mess in the Immigration Department made a James Bond look like a puppy.
Howard’s ‘solution’ cost us billions of dollars with incredible result: over 90%of those ‘illegals’ got permanent visas, after all.
And, the people’s suffering, deaths, torture and suicides were not really important in this whole exercise; we have enough thick skinned, genetically modified convicts here to support cruelty at taxpayers expense.
In the meantime, Mr. Abbot forgot to mention that Mr. Ruddock granted 200 protection visas overnight to active combatants of foreign army.
Mr. Abbot has no idea about the Immigration Law. With Australian false passports currently flying around Muslim countries we can have successful intake of ‘illegals’ through legal airports.
So much so about the misnomer of the millennium: Border Protection.
@Rena…Abbott has no idea about anything, he has made that crystal clear after 6 months of floundering around, policy bubbles, lies, ignorance, tantrums, stupidity (hotter in JC’s time 2000 yrs ago) Now this Jesuit admits he makes up policy not for the country but because he is against the PM. So the despicable policy has nothing to do with any concern for refugees, border control, getting immigration correctly initiated, it is all about his personal vendetta against Kev. Pathetic.
@Michael…and your link to that information is?
QUESTION TAKEN ON NOTICE
ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES HEARING: 9 FEBRUARY 2010
IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP PORTFOLIO
(50) Program 4.3: Offshore Asylum Seeker Management
Senator Barnett (L&C 101) asked:
How many detainees have departed Christmas Island by month since 1 July of the
current financial year? Advise who were granted a permanent protection visa and
how many were failed asylum seekers and returned to their country of origin or some
other country.
Answer:
As at 9 February 2010, 1319 clients had departed Christmas Island in the current
financial year after receiving a visa or to facilitate a return to their country of origin.
The table below indicates how many were granted a visa and how many were
returned to their country of origin each month.
The ‘returned to home country or another country’ column does not include the 58
passengers from SIEV 53, who did not claim asylum and who returned home
voluntarily 14 days after arrival on Christmas Island.
These figures do not include significant numbers of clients who have received a
negative Refugee Status Assessment and/or are currently undergoing an
independent Merits Review.
Month PV Grants
Failed asylum
seekers
returned to
home country
or another
country
Jul-09 116 0
Aug-09 63 9
Sep-09 259 0
Oct-09 91 17
Nov-09 200 23
Dec-09 195 6
Jan-10 232 11
Up to and
including
9 Feb-10 97 0
Total 1253 66
1253 visas, 66 deportations.
Makes perfect sense to waste so much money to deny just 5% of applicants doesn’t it?
That actually means they spend all that money on detention to keep 66 people out of the courts.
Whoopdidoo.
QUESTION TAKEN ON NOTICE
ADDITIONAL BUDGET ESTIMATES HEARING: 9 FEBRUARY 2010
IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP PORTFOLIO
(28) Program 2.1: Refugee and Humanitarian Assistance
Senator Hanson-Young (L&CA 72) asked:
In relation to Indonesia and Malaysia, how many people who are found by the
UNHCR to be refugees were accepted for resettlement in 2008–09 and to date in
2009–10?
Answer:
The following table shows the number of refugee category visas granted by the
Department’s posts in Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur during 2008–09 and in 2009–10
to 31 January 2010.
Post
Refugee category visa
grants 2008–09 grants 2009–10 to 31/01/10
Jakarta 33* 90
Kuala Lumpur 380 186
* In addition five persons of concern were granted Subclass 449 Humanitarian Stay
(Temporary) visas in 2008–09, subclass 449 grants are not counted towards the
Humanitarian Program. These individuals have all subsequently received permanent
Subclass 851 Resolution of Status visas in Australia, which count toward the
Humanitarian category of the Humanitarian Program.
QUESTION TAKEN ON NOTICE
ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES HEARING: 9 FEBRUARY 2010
IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP PORTFOLIO
(42) Program 4.3: Offshore Asylum Seeker Management
Senator Humphries (L&C 87) asked:
You have sought additional money for accommodation on Christmas Island. The two
figures on page 12 of the PAES are $11.2 million for accommodation on Christmas
Island and $34.2 million for capital expenses. I assume there are other expenses
associated with that. Can we break down that cost to costs associated with the
detention contract, interpreting services, air charter, freight, health services and so
forth?
Answer:
Associated costs on Christmas Island for the period 1 July 2009 to 28 February 2010
include:
wasn’t it just yesterday that everyone was laughing at Julie Bishop and saying that the Libs had so little depth in the shadow cabinet that sooner or later they would be forced to let Ruddock and Bronwyn Bishop appear on the telly.
speak of the devil - 24 hours later here is Ruddock reanimating the Pacific Solution
does this mean that tomorrow we can look forward to Bronwyn announcing the return of kerosine baths?
@Michael, I don’t usually get involved in Crikey stoushes, mostly they remind me of the squabbles my children used to have before they started primary school and learned some manners (albeit with a slightly better vocabulary) but I’m going to have to butt in here.
I think I counted three separate posts above (mine being one of them) reminding everyone that there is NO SUCH THING as an “illegal boat arrival”. According to international treaties (to which Australia is a signatory) Australian legislation and case law, people have a legal right to seek asylum in this country. It would be against the law to refuse them this right.
Disagree all you like, but try to have the facts on your side, it makes it so much easier to avoid looking like a pillock.
According to CS Forrester, the Bourbon kings of France “learnt nothing and forgot nothing”. History repeats itself.
How many people know that the deplorable Ann Duffield, the woman who wrote on Shayan Badraie’s release request “bucklies” and who also denied Roqia Bakhtiyari the right to live with her husband in Sydney just in case other wives might want to.
Ann was chief of staff to the grey ghost, Sharman Stone and now Scott Morrison.
She was the bitch from hell then and is the bitch from hell now.
The Coalition’s ludicous ‘invasion map’ advertisment conveys the impression that Australia is being subjected to illegal invasions from Afghanistan and Iraq.
It might come as a surprise to the bloodied, bombed, displaced and massacred people of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then again, they’re used to lying westerners with their self-serving inversions of reality.
What a great way to get Labor’s base fired up before the election. With the cadavers of Howard’s old cabinet and policies re-animated, I’m predicting a re-run of the 2007 election.
Rudd played a dirty card from his back pocket when he announced he’d suspend processing refugee claims processing from those ‘safe’, ‘peaceful countries, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan. His motive could only be political (certainly not humanitarian as it doesn’t even comply with our international obligations eg the Refugee Convention, Human Rights etc etc). He is getting ready for the election by appealing to many of those who might have turned or returned to Liberal. Abbott is merely trying to trump his card.
Despite all the the lies and propaganda, there are a lot of people who think asylum seekers have suffered enough and deserve a ‘fair go’ after their trauma at home and the trauma of trying to get here. Unfortunately as we weren’t enough to keep Howard out of office so many times in a row, I fear it won’t stop Abbott. I may have to retrieve my tattered ‘Save the Refugees’ placard out of the back of garage. And I thought it was there for good ….
It is well known that the issue of TPVs (instead of proper residents visas) to refugees, and the uncertainty that causes, only hinders the recovery of their mental health. People can’t recover from depression, anxiety and post traumatic stress disorder until they feel secure.
PS Skink - the kerosene baths joke was a stroke of genius
“Real Action” Tony Abbott is just a modern day trumped up two bit street rabble rouser. If Australia falls for his simplistic numbnuts “policies” it’ll be in real trouble.
3215 Afghans
1091 Sri Lankans
240 Iranians
318 Iraqis
14 Kuwaitis
110 Burmese
359 stateless Kurds
15 Palestinians
5692 from 1 July 2008 or 8.1 people per day on average.
Total “crew” 319
So much for the fucking evil people smugglers.
1125 mostly Sri Lankans sailed themselves.
Moronic nation
Meanwhile 8559 people had applied for asylum in the last two years up to 31 March.
1315 on Xmas had not yet applied for asylum so we take them away and we have 4377 “boat” people applied - 161 from 2008 = 4216 which means that 4343 have flown here and applied for asylum but we never hear a word about them.
From 1 July last year to 9 April 2385 had been granted protection with 1253 of them from Christmas Island.
We are talking about almost no-one being refused if they sail.
What I find amazing is that they (coalition) manage to convince a significant proportion of the public. It seems people think that being mean and nasty and off shore processing is for some reason a good way to stop boats.
It shows a certain amount of nastiness and stupidity in Australian society.
The appalling decision to dump asylum seekers in Leonora and Curtin, is the most heinous failing of the Rudd Government. It defies reason, given the vast amount of documented material on the trauma and the long term damage arising from this inhumane treatment. We do not send even our worst criminals to these remote places. Why asylum seekers?
And why is the processing so slow, when PM Rudd was elected on a promise that all decisions would be made within 90 days? Now he has suspended any processing of Afghan claims for six months! So many broken promises from Mr Moral Leadership himself.
On a day when the government announces that immigration levels this year are likely to drop from 300,000 to 250,000 what would it cost this country to allow the proportionately tiny number of people arriving on boats, provided they are genuine in their claims to be fleeing death or persecution? And why hasn’t Mr Moral Leadership stood firm on this and made out the clear case to the Australian people on the side of decency and humanity and justice, rather than pandering to hysteria, panic, xenophobia, fear and the polls? This is the same kind of moral bankruptcy that emerged under Kim Beazley in Opposition and it is currently alienating many who supported Rudd, who, it seems, were foolish to take him at his word. But then of course there are the Opposition policies and the return of the Grey Ghost himself, leading the nation back to hell!
Abbott’s slogan du jour for this is “We will stop the boats”. I’m waiting for that to morph into “We will stop Labor’s boats”.
Sure we need to stick them all under a microscope security wise - but it’s like picking on the easiest, and most hard done by.
I also don’t see the “jet set” visa escapees getting the same bullshit from the barbed wire brigade.
There’s only one “excuse” that can be given for Rudd’s reversal :- facing an election, against Abbott and the “Tabloid (particularly “Murdoch”, with its muscle) Media Machine”, “slash and burn your way back to safer ground” : otherwise be prepared to go into that campaign against the sort of campaign those conservatives (with their penetration, on the “fertile ground” (on that issue of “xenophobia” there already) will wage on that issue.
…or grow a spine and change the debate.
Howard didn’t win the Tampa election, Beazley lost it with his absolutely gutless me-tooism.
Given the sparse facts available to a less than critically-engaged public it is almost rational to be rabidly anti-asylum seeker on the information available. Get a few more facts and some different arguments out there and a great deal of people would change their minds - they’re the government for goodness sake! They have the resources and the authority to speak out, not hide behind the “we’re just doing it because they’ll do it anyway” crap. P*ssweak!!
Why “boat people”?
Look at them. See the photo’s, “boats on a big ocean, nothing near but water”, “isolated”, “coloured”, “foreign”, “Non-Christian”. Hear/read the vitriolic rhetoric. Here’s a ready-made “black and white” issue, awaiting the attention of anyone willing to use it.
Versus the “air mailed variety”? There’s so many - imagine the “cost” of “fixing” that. They arrive every day, amongst “everyone else”, to our busy airports, with our valuable tourism industry, many are “white”, “relatively affluent”, “Christian”, or “prickly”, “white Africans”, “European”, Chinese.
No contest really, if you’re that hard up.
It was almost a week after Feb. 4, and after “Cous’n Jethro” was drawing unwanted attention to “their” economic credentials, with parliament freshly resumed, that Abbott turned his “attention” to Garrett, too.
Or, buy a paper, make that a chain of them, to get your PR “out there”?
Most of “us” still get “our news” (“our right to or no”) “semi-digested/manufactured” from these “news sauces”.
As predicted, as a consequence of the relaxation of border controls by the Rudd government unauthorised entry is increasing. This is aided and abetted by single issue advocates who seem to get their rocks off by running around in a holy crusade focusing on the individuals who have forced their way in rather than the collective impact of the relaxation of border control.
The problem that needs to be understood is that well meaning refugee conventions take no account of supply and demand. Single issue advocates start from the assumption that supply is small and finite and capacity to absorb is infinite. The majority of the community realise that the opposite is the case notwithstanding the broad brush of unrealistic refugee conventions. The esimple question that I would ask is how many million refugees to you want, and if you want something less than half the population of Africa Sri Lanka and Afghanistan you will need to exercise some form of control. My preference is to operate within the United Nations refugee conventions and deter people who choose to pay to push their way to the queue.
There are potentially millions of refugees in the world and Australia cannot take them all. Accordingly some control needs to be exercised and every forced arrival without an appropriate visa means some other possibly more deserving case is left to rot.
The single issue advocates do not address this problem which is understood by the majority of Australians who want the Australian government and not people smugglers to set the agenda. Having created the problem Rudd now has to deal with it. His task will be made all the more difficult by the fervent activities of these single issue advocates pursuing their mantra without considering the full consequences of their activities. Their primary focus appears to be their own self gratification in relation to those who forced their way here and not the broad refugee problem as a whole.
I am no lover of John Howard or Tony Abbott but some of the the respondents to this article are whipping themselves into an orgiastic frenzy of abuse and foul language which does not add any value to the debate.
There is probably a spectrum of unauthorised arrivals from genuine refugees to opportunists masquerading as refugees to get a foothold in Australia.
I make no apologies for the fact that I do not want to share my country with millions of refugees/economic immigrants/boat people/over stayers/any other class of unauthorised entrant.
Whilst some refugee advocates may have experiences bordering on orgasm at the thought of facilitating the entry of more of this class of individual into the country, one has to seriously question the orgiastic frenzy involved in the debate.
The puerile tit-for-tat debates that I am experiencing made me realise that it is probably not worth while expressing an opinion to Crikey anymore, because the moderator, if there is one, has gone to sleep, and consequently am I am unlikely to renew my subscription when this one expires.
Greg,
you’d be better off heading down to Kingsford-Smith or Tullamarine if you want to stop the hordes coming here. Despite what those who portray themselves as ‘caring but rational’ say, boat people are the least of our problems.
If you don’t want to read puerile comments:
1) don’t write them
2) don’t read them
@ Michael…let us all see here just what a liar and pusher of misinformation made up from his simpleton intelligence this michael expects us to believe….he said here today…… “And by the way, just for the record and for the sake of correcting the miles of misinformation that appears here,
each ILLEGAL BOAT ARRIVAL contains on average $450,000 of merchandize.
That’s 30 ILLEGALS @ $15,000
Yes, that’s what they each pay - not the sort of poverty associated with true refugees who are homeless, destitute & unable to bribe their way into OZ.”
I asked a very short straight to the point question, …….@Michael…and your link to that information is? ……..reply? nothing. Because the figures he quoted only exist in his deluded mind. Regretfully whoever the person is masquerading as..
’ Michael ’ is one very sick individual. So he joins a few other liberal head bangers on these blogs with just one intention, to oppose. Sounds very much like the Abbott SS.
@ Greg Angelo states ” I make no apologies for the fact that I do not want to share my country with millions of refugees/economic immigrants/boat people/over stayers/any other class of unauthorised entrant. ” You are as bad as the Michaels of this blog. For the sake of common sense, there have been less, that’s less than 1800 arrivals of asylum seekers in the last 12 months. It may give you some sort of climatic thrill between your legs to imagine the country being over run by millions (your words) of would be seekers of citizenship, but another member of the mindless stupidity club you are as well.
Do you seriously know how many refugees there are trying to flee from persecution throughout the world and how that equates to the number who attempt to arrive in Australia by boat. It is infantisimal, small, nothing, bugger all.
Why is it you Liberal Abbott f-kwits keep making up these imaginary figures, are you really as stupid as he is?
Try reading the contributions of ShepherdMarilyn, there is a woman who knows everything we need to know about this subject, without the lies and political crap you Liberals thrive on.
in breaking news, WA Attorney General Christian Porter has said that Western Australia refuses to accommodate any more budgie smugglers in its jails
sorry, people smugglers
David Sanderson
Posted Thursday, 27 May 2010 at 2:31 pm | Permalink
Says Abbott:
‘My argument is not with desperate people who want a better life. My argument is with the government.’’
This government that many like me thought they were really committed to a decent and human rights approach to this trauma, keeping in mind our allegiance to many of the International Laws re our OBLIGATIONS to assylum seekers.
It’s important to keep in mind, that at least 70% of those jailed on Naurau were eventially granted refugee status, and are living in our community!
Someone needs to aske Abbott how this policy that he’s just annunciated fits in with his particular brand of so-called ‘christianity’? catholicism? I just find it totally amazing, that so-called christians find it so easy to publicise such anti christian and anti humane policies! Perhaps someone will make an attempt to justify this?
@ Greg Angelo
“I make no apologies for the fact that I do not want to share my country with millions of refugees/economic immigrants/boat people/over stayers/any other class of unauthorised entrant.”
I take it from your name your heritage is from Europe?
So you don’t want to share? I expect it is okay to let people be maimed and tortured, just so long as you don’t have to watch.
There are Idi Amin’s in this world. Life is often cheap.
But hey, we need to protect our 2 car, 5 television, 15 computer device households from these heathens who aim to steal everything we own. Is that it?
Your compassion overwhelms me.
And I bet, if you were in their place, you would do everything possible to get out, and get your family out.
@Greg Angelo
I for one would be sorry to see you go but I understand your exasperation.
I can assure you that the moderator is not asleep.
They are rabidly biased and I don’t need point out on which side of politics.
They don’t publish views contrary to their own from people who like you don’t renew their subscription.
That is not the real problem of course.
It’s what they do allow be published and all of that is on the classical mouth-foamers side. Painful grandstanding indignant self-righteous opinion unencumbered with an argument is the norm.
Moreover on challenge fallacious argument most especially ad hominem is the reaction.
Abbotts plan is a great idea - to pass votes on to the Greens Party and some to Labor. Putting Ruddock in the picture as well ? abbott s been to see his daddy howard .
The Pacific Solution worked. End of story.
It will work again when a Liberal Government comes back to power. As for the country he will be sending them to, I hear there is this little island called “Nauru” which has a nice little detention centre ready to roll… just need to sweep out the cobwebs.
WE WILL DECIDE WHO COMES TO THIS COUNTRY AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THEY COME, *NOT* PEOPLE SMUGGLERS.
What Labor base, they’ve been Howard voters for the last 12 years.
Australia is a conservative country with conservative values. We do not appreciate far leftwing shrill enforcing their latte idealogy onto the rest of the country, which is exactly what Rudd has done with his soft touch policies to boatpeople.
80% of Australians support tougher boatpeople measures, this is not racism this is our countries sovereign right to decide who comes here.
The Pacific Solution was expensive to establish but once integrated saved taxpayers millions of dollars.
How did it do this? Well it stopped the boats. No boats means reduced taxi service around the Indian Ocean. No boats means not having your ships hijacked by Sri Lankans demanding to go to Australia. No boats means you don’t have the burns unit at Sydney having all it’s resources because the boaties decided to pour unleaded onboard and light it up. No boats means you can close Curtin, Woomera, Baxter, Port Headland and scale down operations at all your other detention centres. No boats means you don’t need to keep spending another $100 Million upgrading Christmas Island detention centre every 6 months because you are running out of space. No boats means you don’t have to have half your canberra department of immigration office fly up to Christmas Island to sort Rudd’s mess out.
And No Boats means people don’t f’ing die trying to get here on rickety boats. Everyone that sinks the lefties here in Australia must take responsible for. Every person that dies is because the lefties in Australia encouraged them to come rather than wait in line. Shame, shame, shame.
THETRUTHHURTS - First up! The sentence that read “80% of Australians support tougher boatpeople measures, this is not racism this is our countries sovereign right to decide who comes here.” shoud have read - “this is our country’s sovereign right etc”. The country you’re referring to is Australia - one country. The use of the word “countries” is a plural of country - that is many or several countrIES! When you refer to Australia as “this country’s assets or people or? you don’t revert to the mistake that you’ve shown here tonight!
“The Pacific Solution was expensive to establish but once integrated saved taxpayers millions of dollars” I cannot believe, that someone like you would make this absolute lie of a statement and think you can get away with it.
Fact, each day it costs the Australian taxpayer well over $1000 per day to keep an asylum seeker in Christmas Island, as opposed to about $430 per day to keep a person in Villawood for one day.
There was one man who was detained on Nauru for more yrs than a person who’s committed a crime of kidnat would expect to face. Think about that for a minute. Seeking refuge is not a crimminal act - they are not ‘illegals’? They enter here in a legitimate manner!
TheThinkingHurts - “Australia is a conservative country with conservative values”
That’d be the same Australia that was the second country where women were allowed to vote, the first country to have an 8-hour working day, that had a working-class led political movement in power a century ago, that had a world-leading industrial relations system, that had one of the highest union densities and one of the narrowest wealth gaps in the world?
Doesn’t sound very conservative to me.
BOB THE BUILDER - At last! Thank you!
Actually, I’ve just looked at my post above, and I think I got it wrong - I think the cost re Villawood is less than that! I should’ve gone to bed when I felt tired, and left it until tomorrow!
I’m orf! g’night all!
Ahh — Truthy, did you see the fairfax poll?
Enough said.
Truth wouldn’t know it if he fell over it.
The thing is, even if you accept the Liberals’ facts and figures, Howard’s policies only “worked” if you assume that the only goal of asylum seeker policy is to stop asylum seekers coming on boats.
I personally do not accept this proposition.
We don’t hear about them because they did the right thing and waited in the queue, rather than pay a people smuggler tens of thousands of dollars, skip through multiple safe havens, burn their ID papers and sink their boat on arrival in Australian waters forcing Australia’s hand.
We also don’t hear about them, because unlike the queue jumpers they didn’t trample over real refugee’s sitting in real refugee camps to steal one of the precious 13,500 humanitarian positions we have every year.
The lefties only give a sh!t about queue jumpers, they couldn’t give half a flying … about real refugees.
Did you see the 2001 Election results?
There have been actual scientifically done polls just on this issue, not dodgy online polls that are able to be skewed and these polls found a large majority(80%) want tougher border controls.
@thetruthhurts……please enlighten me and advise how many refugee boats have been sunk eg in 2009/10 so far, where do you get your figure tens of thousands of dollars paid to people smugglers? You know of cases where ID papers have been burned?
As for ‘lefties’ not giving a s — t about real refugees, all refugees are real if they seek asylum, they are then assessed for eligibility whether they come by sea or air. Your point abour skipping through multiple safe havens, where are they?
@ Truthy
“Did you see the 2001 Election results?”
Proof positive you live in the past along with your right wing heroes.
Glad to see PG and SS announce court action on whaling!
@ THETRUTHHURTS…allow me to repeat my previous request to you…..
@thetruthhurts……please enlighten me and advise how many refugee boats have been sunk eg in 2009/10 so far, where do you get your figure tens of thousands of dollars paid to people smugglers? You know of cases where ID papers have been burned?
As for ‘lefties’ not giving a s — t about real refugees, all refugees are real if they seek asylum, they are then assessed for eligibility whether they come by sea or air. Your point abour skipping through multiple safe havens, where are they?
Obviously you are not interested in commenting when you are required to actually provide facts to back up your absurd statements.
You need to stop the refugees before they get on a ship. Once they’re in the ocean there are no good options to handle them.
The ‘Pacific Solution’ is totally illogical : you lock them up in a prison island instead of mainland Australia, what difference does it make? Kevin Rudd claims he is ‘being tough’ by suspending the processing of asylum seekers, yet ‘Purgatory’ is not a policy. Deporting the asylum seekers back to their home country is a solution the ‘average punter’ (i.e. Barnaby Joyce) will understand and support. However, it will also be a death sentence for those fleeing from persecution.
There is an innovative solution that is both legal, humane, politically popular and economical : resettle them in East Timor. Legally, once they become East Timor citizens they will no longer be refugees, so they cannot ‘queue jump’ even if they cross the sea again. What is spent on an asylum seeker in a day in Australia will be enough for a year in East Timor. More importantly, East Timor is sparsely populated and resource rich, but severely lacking in human capital. The asylum seekers will have a chance to make a living as oppose to resettlement on a Pacific Island. Getting the East Timor government to agree should be easy, since it’s being propped up by Australia anyway..
@ BOB THE BUILDER
Princess you are clearly delighted with everything Rudd says or does.
And it makes sense, after all your Bob The Builder, snout deep in the money trough provided to you by his BER.
It’s a wonder you get even a moment to post on Crikey between ripping the kids off at their school and counting the wads of sweaty bills provide to you by your hero at the expense of the real workers who pay the bill through tax.
I can hear you from here, wallowing in all that mud & money, barely able to stand from the weight of the BER dough in your pockets.
For 10 years it has been advocated by some that we work with Indonesia (again) but we screwed up big time before now so they will not let us.
Indonesia is not and doesn’t want to be signatory to the refugee convention and does not protect refugees.
East Timorese live mostly on about 80 cents per day, sure let’s burden them with a massive 5690 people.
@BOB THE BUILDER
What a wonderful ride it is for the Comrades when Labor is in power.
Line your pockets quickly buddy cause your party will soon be over.
@GREG ANGELO
Is it the language you want moderated or the thoughts of those who differ in opinion to yourself?
How are you going to know who the enemy are unless they make themselves known?
@ JamesK
You definitely need a subscription to The Plain English Foundation for Christmas.
A touch of Mylanta will settle that bile while you’re at it.
@LIZ
And listen to you Elizabeth, going on like an old pork chop.
Don’t you get it - Bob is Bourgois.
He ain’t your mate, he’s filthy rich, drives a Merc, lives in Toorak.
Yuk!!
@SHEPHERDMARILYN
What’s your point? Do you have one?
Your all aver the shop like trolley.
Do you want the suckers in Oz or not?
@ Michael….for the second time yesterday I requested you provide some links or backup to show the information re asylum seekers you were throwing around was genuine and reliable.
I wrote……..
David
Posted Thursday, 27 May 2010 at 10:24 pm | Permalink
@ Michael…let us all see here just what a liar and pusher of misinformation made up from his simpleton intelligence this michael expects us to believe….he said here today…… “And by the way, just for the record and for the sake of correcting the miles of misinformation that appears here,
each ILLEGAL BOAT ARRIVAL contains on average $450,000 of merchandize.
That’s 30 ILLEGALS @ $15,000
Yes, that’s what they each pay - not the sort of poverty associated with true refugees who are homeless, destitute & unable to bribe their way into OZ.”
I asked a very short straight to the point question, …….@Michael…and your link to that information is? ……..reply? nothing. Because the figures he quoted only exist in his deluded mind. Regretfully whoever the person is masquerading as..
’ Michael ’ is one very sick individual. So he joins a few other liberal head bangers on these blogs with just one intention, to oppose. Sounds very much like the Abbott SS.
As you continue to run away from a very straight forward, direct request, my comments stand. You make things up, you are dishonest, a bully and totally unworthy of any respect.
The pity is there is not a reliable alert moderator on duty here. Most of the rubbish you write would not see the light of day.
shepherdmarilyn
Posted Thursday, 27 May 2010 at 4:40 pm | Permalink
“Everyone has the right to seek asylum. End of fucking story.
Why the hell do morons have to make that so complicated.”
Indeed! Good for you! I shall copy your comments for my own information, as I did the last time. I feel ashamed and like you, bloody angry!
If I hear Abbott’s “illegal” once more, I’ll bust something! It’s almost impossible to remain civil! As for the Abbott lovers; I’d ask them one question - ‘How do they justify these actions with their god’? and, ‘How do they justify their abuse and uncharitable language, behaviours of people who are basically kind and decent, with their so-called god’? Bloody hypocrites!
DAVID: There are many people at this website who will keep prodding at everyone else, but consistently fail to provide any follow up, information beyond their own self-absorbed navel gazing, answers to people asking questions, and/or behaving in an abusive and offensive manner, also going for the jugular.
If a woman questions their comments they become snide and patronising.
Three of the worst offenders are:-
MICHAEL
LACQUERED STUDIO
MARTINR
They aren’t worth wasting your breath on.
Interestingly they are, all three, Catholics.
There was an interesting comment I saw today..I don’t know where. Apparently there is a surge (that sounds too strong. Increase is better) in HIV coming into the country. I repeat, I read it somewhere, I didn’t make the observation.
The interesting part is it’s being brought in by refugees arriving BY PLANE.
The ones coming here by boat aren’t bringing it in at all.
Thanks Venise for your reply, as a non practising catholic, I disregarded most of the fairy tales as soon as I was able to see through the church’s crap. That a supposedly educated, mature, human being, as Abbott would have us think he is, is still sucked in by this absurd make believe, eliminates him as leader of a nation, any nation, in my opinion.
I await now the next invasion of abuse over the advertising of the mines tax. The sooner Rudd gets this election over and done the sooner we know we we are going. This is madness the way it is hanging in the air. Should he win again, it is my great hope Labor dumps him for the red fox Gillard. He is too inconsistent for mine. This country deserves a woman at the helm, men fuk up too much, particularly religious dildos
Regardles the religion; our politicians, and the whole nation for that matter, should stick to the law…for a change.
Otherwise, we have no right to take anybody to the court… Japanese inclded.
Has anyone on this blog has ever heard about Lord Chesterton???
Or is it too much to ask?
What amuses me is this consternation at “this developing trend” of “Torquemada’s” - another “undertaking” proving contrary to His “reality” (funny, Him on about Rudd and his “promises” - but who seems to care about “that” “non-core” contrast too, in the media, whenever he’s being interviewed?)?
But really, is it any wonder there isn’t “more party room consultation” between Abbott and most of the rest of “His and Honest John’s party”?
When you consider the tight corners he’s been backed into, from where he springs to wave “this paper”, and from where they seem to be “pulled” - how many “other people” can you “legitimately”, and seemly, fit in “a toilet cubicle”?
DAVID: I agree, totally.
BOB THE BUILDER @BELA, and anyone else who is interested.
There are more than several MICHAELS on Crikey’s posts. The original ‘MICHAEL’ is a complete shit, so it’s necessary to add a bit more, if for MICHAEL JAMES. Say so.
Because the original MICHAEL is more than likely to answer over the top of another writer. ie Someone thinking he’s writing to MICHAEL JAMES but just calling him MICHAEL is just begging the question.
RENA ZURAWEL: Yeah I know Chesterton’s writings but didn’t know he had a title.
Normally he’s known as G K Chesterton. I’m not nit picking, just confused.
Michael James - 27th May-
“If on the other hand they get the impression that it is the refugees who control the process”.
What a bloody idiot! The fact that they ‘turn up’ without a gold edged invitation, looking unkempt, tired, sick and exhausted, could just be because they’re FLEEING SOME SORT OF TERROR!!!!!! FEAR! You idiot!
Why don’t you and your crowd worry about the 96% who arrive by plane. there could be 50,000 of them in the country this minute. why don’t the state police forces and AFP and ASIO and the MILITARY and the NAVY and the politicians do a house to house. Start at one end of a city and work through!
WHY IS THE OPPOSITION AND GOVT OBSESSED, RACIST, BORING, CRUEL, VICIOUS, UNLAWFUL AND just down right bloody disgusting, over less than 4% of poor usually black people who are traumatized. I’d have thought, that going on world experience, the ones to worry about JUST MAY BE those who came by BLOODY plane!
I was reminded yesterday, that the biggest killer of women is heart attacks/disease! Gee, I’m not bloody surprised!The greatest threat to the health and safety of women is violence, by guess who - these very types of blokes? Controlling, domineering, cruel, vicious, bombastic, abusive, violent and vain and boring bloody men!
This is so BLOODY FRUSTRATING! I can’t believe, that the morons on here who are obsessed and full of hate and bile over a few human beings who arrive, without weapons, without furniture, sick and exhausted, perhaps pregnant, with little ones, or alone due to their family being butchered in front of them; are causing so much angst for so-called big biffy hairy balled idiots! How they can just keep on keeping on with the lies and bullshit - amazing! Next thing they’ll announce that they’re going to mass in the morning! Hypocrites! Like David and Venise and others have said many times, these hard right catholic driven overgrown school boys are such a pain in the arse!
Next thing they’ll be screaming about the ‘right to life’? What they mean are those they perceive deserve such a right!
They make such ridiculous assertions, and never have any qualms, that they’re full of lies! Never read a word, never take the time to do some real research, don’t give a shit about anyone who’s black and speaks another language - probably are racist to aboriginal people too. I’m just sick of their hateful nonsense! I feel ashamed and dirtied by their revolting hatred! But, gee people god is good!
shepherdmarilyn
Posted Thursday, 27 May 2010 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
How many people know that the deplorable Ann Duffield, the woman who wrote on Shayan Badraie’s release request “bucklies” and who also denied Roqia Bakhtiyari the right to live with her husband in Sydney just in case other wives might want to.”
Yes I remember her. What does she do these days? I remember that dear little boy, sitting on his father’s knee and just staring into ???He must be almost in high school now. I rang the woman solicitor in Sydney who handled his case, and also that of the little girl ‘Naomi’ who was in Villawood - she was from China or? Born in Villawood, and at aged 3 was pulling out her hair and withdrawing and/or screaming - just awful. These bastards want to go back to that horror!
I also remember Roqia Bakhtiyari - she asserted that she as an Afghani, and Amanda Vanstone was asked, no begged, to just wait for the info - she refused, used a chartered plane before Xmas and sent them packing. The info arrived shortly after, and guess what? She was from Afghanistan? She gave birth under guard, and she and her baby boy were kept under 24 hr guard in a Sydney motel for 10 months! Howard and now Rudd believe in ‘family principles, traditions and all that bullshit’? Family is everything blah blah! It’s tough enough with a new baby; I can only imagine what hell that was - and separated from her husband and other children. They were removed from Villawood due to people like some people here, protesting! I wouldn’t treat a bitch and her pups like that, let alone human beings!
We have very strong laws about child abuse - even if a child is not actually hit, but witness, even just hear violence, it’s classified as abuse, it’s damaging, and yet people here will feel OK if once again, babies and children are exposed to jail and jailers and all the trauma that goes with people living without hope, and who are probably suffering from terrible trauma from being jailed and or tortured! I didn’t know until yesterday, that in Sydney there’s a special ‘place’ that deals with trauma and terrorised people! No prizes for wondering why that was brought about!
Abbott was at Villawood today - a ‘photo shoot’ no doubt. If that doesn’t tell people what an absolute piece of work he is, what will! Feel like vomiting!
I knew I would hear the voice of the Jesuits senior representative in the Liberal Party, the acknowledgement that Darwins theory of evolution has a lot going for it, in Abbott the monk who is mad, shooting his mouth off today over the Govts spending on the advertising of its mining tax. What I wasn’t prepared for was the utter hypocrisy from this catholic, who fronts up to the altar rails several times a week, sticks his tongue out and eats the body of Christ, followed by a swish of the ole wine.
We have a wanabe PM who actually is a practising cannibal. Catholics believe they are ingesting the body and blood of the founder of their religion. Wonderful. He then today attacks Rudd for making door stops outside his church on Sundays, indicates that is heresy and fails to mention the amount spent by his former boss ze fuhrer Howard, advertising work choices. Millions and millions and millions. Piss off Abbott, you are a nut case and suffer from complete memory loss among a multitude of other problems.
DAVID - I tried to reply to you this morning, and then? an instant blackout? It’s not unusual at this time of the year in this position. No warning, nothing!
It’s such hypocrisy, when people like Abbott and JamesK and John James and Michael and a few others - all catholics or ‘dedicated christians’ and yet, they’re the most revolting people in the country. Tonight, to see Eric Abetz carrying on about Rudd spending the money on advertising, when during Howard’s reign, the billions he spent of our money that broke all Australian records re advertising, and yet, surprise surprise, I never heard Abbott or Abetz or Minchin or ??????utter one word of protest - not one!
(here goes?)There’s a woman who went to the same university as Abbott did, who has a story to tell? I wish she had the confidence to come forward? Perhaps this is the reason Abbott is unhinged - guilt!
TO ALL THE PEOPLE who have been bucketing asylum seekers I would ask one question.
Of course, if you were placed in the same situation as a refugee, you wouldn’t deign to seize this opportunity to flee to Oz?
Not bloody much!
Venise,
I think you have articulated nicely the real issue in asking that question. Who wouldn’t, when fearing for the safety and welfare of themselves or their family, seek to get to a safer location as soon as possible? Who wouldn’t seek out a better life for themselves?
Aren’t boat people really the sort of people conservatives want us to be? The real go-getters, risk takers and “Stop at nothing to get to safety” types? Don’t conservatives want some self-sufficiency in society? How more self sufficient can you get, paying your way on a rickety boat for a journey that may or may not make it to its destination, rather than sitting around waiting for the assistance of the Australian Government. Do conservative politicians really ever think about what they are saying, or just blurt out the most blatantly racist thing that first comes to mind.
@DAVID &VENISE & CHRIS - Isn’t it just too awful? I’m sure that most parents (well, the decent ones who don’t believe in driving parents/kids to a medical psychosis) would do anything to save their children. A leaky boat wouldn’t seem much of a risk if I was a woman in Afghanistan or Sri Lanka - my main goal would be to find a safe place for my children!
The bullshit about Rudd/Labor ‘giving a message to the “people smugglers” is just incredible? How many people in Afghanistan are sitting watching the bloody evening news? Unemployment is at horrific levels, schools are just coping(some) malnutrition is at a high level amongst all the children(except those of the rapists and murderers, and corrupt politicians) and pregnant women are giving birth to premature babies who are undersize due to the mothers suffering from severe malnutrition - others are born with genetic defects thanks to depleted uranium weapons. The bullshit from Abbott etc would be a joke if it wasn’t such a human tragedy! Of course, Iraq is just the same! The stats are horrendous! It’s shameful! And then these bastards tell such horrific lies!
CHRIS OWENS: Thank you. You also might like to read my critique of the Howard Government at the Bernard Keane article “Tony Abbott’s Struggle With the Truth”
It’s probably the last comment.
Once again, thank you.
PS: Chris. You are absolutely right. Of course the refugees turn out to be conservative, hard-working and prepared to educate their kids far better than the average Ocker is prepared to do.
@VENETIAN
Do you have a plan B when Tony is PM?
@VENETIAN
Cause you know he will be don’t you?
My pleasure Venise.
Just watched Bernardi try to justify his call for a burqa ban on Q and A. It is the same thing. Pick out a small minority and beat up on them endlessly. It is just bullying.
I couldn’t find your critique unfortunately. There are some 250 comments over there. I will look again tomorrow. In the meantime, if you click on my name you can visit my blog where I implore Australians not to vote for Abbott on the basis of this policy.
Yes, I was watching QandA, and was revolted.
I think Crikey have removed my whole comment. No reasons, nothing.
MICHAEL:
Seldom, in the history of Australian politics, have the leaders of the two major Parties been so hell bent on throwing themselves on their own swords.
I have absolutely no idea of what is waiting around the nearest political pillar. Higgins might end up with a victory to Greens, with first preferences going to the Communist, the DLP, the anti-greens Party, and the Sex Party. Or the renascent fundamentalist religious Parties.
Your own thoughts are non-existent because you merely reprint other peoples’ comments which support your over all hard right-wing stance.
Perhaps the Labor Party might ease Rudd out of being leader. This would have an enormous impact.
No, I do not ‘know’ Tony Abbott will be the next PM.
What I do know is when two dogs fight over the same bone, a third dog often come along an snatches it.
VENISE - A friend of mine has befriended many asylum seekers in Villawood. She visits there on a regular basis - weekly or fortnightly. The stories she tells me are horrific - some are beauracratic bullying and just plain cruel . For example; when people make applications for permanent residency, there are the forms - the bloody forms, to fill in. If a detainee makes a mistake or misses something, they have to do it again; however, these forms often have to be taken from Villawood to Immigration Dept. What she found, was the people at Villawood wouldn’t tell the detainee of a mistake, they’d wait until the said form was presented to Immigration(in the city(Sydney) somewhere?) and they’d pick it up, then the poor detainee would have to do it again! My friend learnt all the ‘correct’ procedures etc and takes the form herself to Immigration - even then, they look for the tiniest ‘mistake’ to try and fob her off - she got over that by ringing govt Ministers, local Federal politician etc? She eventually developed a ‘working relationship’ with senior people in Canberra/Sydney! Imagine what happens to those detainees on Xmas Island; or when Nauru or Mannus Island were in operation, or those detainees who don’t have visitors like my friend - and her adult daughter? When I listen to her telling me of the mind-blowing frustrations, I asked her why they did it - ‘because they can’ is her response - just because they’re(immigration dept) bastards!
She has ‘adopted’ two young men from India or Bangladesh - one was severely depressed due to the trauma he suffered prior to fleeing his own country, which was magnified by incarceration; and was sent from Villawood(Sydney) to a private ‘clinic’ in Brisbane?(What! no psychiatrists in Sydney - I’d like to know who or whose mate(Howard govt) owned or operated or both, this private clinic.) Dept of Immigration flew my friend to Brisbane to collect this young man and flew them both back to Sydney, and into her care? One is still living with this wonderful woman. How much wasted money? One of these men studied to be a chef at TAFE, and the other one is studying nursing at a Sydney Uni - they’ve both been given permanent status. I’ve met both of these men and they’re just a delight to know. The change in their physical and mental health is due to the safe and secure environment they feel in this woman’s home! Good nourishing food, plenty of rest and sleep, no intimidation and support for their goals in life?? I’m proud to know her!
While the detainees she visits in Villawood are from different countries(mostly black or Asian people with english as a second language or no english at all)the thing they all share are the horrors they’ve seen and the trauma suffered via fear of being the next one to either ‘disappear’ or tortured and thrown in jail or killed on the spot, just like their father/s or uncles or elder brothers etc. She sees people’s health deteriorate from one visit to the next - stories about that little 3 yr old I referred to earlier were gut wrenching!
How about the 3 women on Q & A? Weren’t they good - ran rings around Bernardi, who’s hopeless with the ‘next part’ of his argument when challenged - hopeless unless he has a well practised bit of spin? And The Matildas won the soccer final in Asia? Way to go women! Now the Socceroos have to win too - oh, the shame if they don’t?
Question - Why do some women wear a blue hijab? I bet Bernardi doesn’t know the answer, as he’s ignorant of what’s really going on in Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter? Just sprukes the well rehearsed lines!
The women were absolutely first-class. No doubt about it at all.
Cory Bernardi was absolutely first-class. It’s just that I have to add the ‘shit’ after first-class.
A read an article in a magazine about the hijab, the burqa and a couple of other types of head gear, and one woman wears blue(she started after her 7 yr old son was killed by a freak wave while they were at the Kiama Blowhole - south coast nsw - I think other family members were killed/injured too - poor woman) in support of the women of Afghanistan! How’s that? You learn something new each day!
VENISE - I almost didn’t watch. I saw that Bernardi was on and argued with myself, as to whether I could cope with him for an hour! He really is a bastard isn’t he? Imagine living with him!
Amazing that someone like Bernardi, a ‘born again femininst’ is so concerned about women’s autonomy and human rights - but he’d deny them the right to make a decision about their own fertility let alone an unwanted pregnancy! Just by saying you believe in equality doesn’t make it so - a bit more is required? Actions, that also include women seeking asylum.
I suppose JamesK approves of the same women being handcuffed during labour and childbirth, being under police guard(warden/security agent?) - a woman operated on for a caesarian section without her consent? How am I going now JamesK? These were horror stories told to their legal people by women ‘prisoners’ in Woomera and other detention centres - no husbands allowed to see their children born! How’s that for exercising good old coalition family ‘values and traditions’ eh JamesK?
It’s so bloody easy to waft on about a bloody piece of material on a woman’s head/shoulders etc, but it doesn’t stretch to being treated decently in other areas???
I don’t hear Cory advocating that nuns or priests shouldn’t wear veils and or long ‘dresses’? Who knows what might be hidden under them?
Racist/sexist heap!
I said on this post or another, that Shayan Badrie and his family were in Villawood detention centre - they were in Woomera! What happened to correct me? I borrowed the book called ‘The Bitter Shore’ from my local library about the horrors this family went through - I was corrected! Everything else was accurate - my mistake was only a matter of geography!
“An Iranian family’s escape to Australia and the hell they found at the border of paradise”. Jacquie Everitt.
LIZ: Are you the Lizzie who today posted on another site?
@VENISE ALSTERGREN
No Venetian, that was me.
I have stolen Elizabeths identity and now they all think I’m a cranky old bitch who’s name is LIZ.
mwah!
No, my friend! Been out all day! Where was ‘Lizzie’ - what topic? I only use Liz45? I use nannyomi45 on YouTube, but haven’t posted on there for ages - got too depressed with the racism - decided that they were a waste of time and space - and my equilibrium!
Incidently, I have a funny story about YouTube and me? As you know, my eldest son pays my broadband. I was going to these sites, about The Apology and others, and didn’t realise that everytime I clicked on, I’d(or my son would)be charged again. He got an excess bill, and told his mate at the service provider, and anyone else, that his mum was watching porno on the web - then he said, ‘only joking mum’? He upped the monthly price and said I’d be right now! I was so embarrassed! I had no idea how it worked? I do now! Another oops! moment!
Hope all in your world is bright and cheery! Incidently, a good friend of mine had your version of that awful flu of several months ago - she got adult onset asthma out of it! As sick as a dog - she thought she’d die! Took her several weeks to get over it, and she was so scared of any germs lurking around, that she wore a mask at work for a while! She’s the manager of a womens’ health centre!
LIZ: Topic Bernardi:Malcolm misled us. BKeane time= I June ‘10 @5.32p.
That’s very funny. I had a similar but worse, I think, experience. My next door neighbour is not interested in computers. However, she knocked on my door one day last year, wanting to see a porn site-to see if it was as bad as she thought.
We looked together. Dead boring, actually. A week later the computer had a hissy fit and I had to get a real and professional ‘Mac’ man.
The first thing he does is to look at the screen with all the logos on it and say (at the first logo) “Venise, you’ve been looking at a porn site!”
It takes at lot to make me embarrassed, but he succeeded.
I have to say I feel sorry about your friend. I too thought I was about to cark it; dreadful experience.
Luv V
VENISE - Oh dear! Our innocent exploits!
I can’t find the link! But it wasn’t me! I’m not going to respond to Michael - just gives him oxygen!(should’ve been sent to his room more often?) I used to do the same thing with my kids when they were little and behaving badly - ignore them - they only want an audience! I’m glad you didn’t cark it! Even though women now make up 52% of the population, we need all good women at the helm!
Luv Liz
MICHAEL: Why do you always bring yourself into an argument?
Obviously you think your opinion matters. I can assure you it doesn’t.
Please don’t try to kiss me, I’m frightened of getting herpes.
THE VENETIAN