The photos that shame Garrett’s insulation scheme
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Insulation industry experts have attacked the Government’s insulation rebate program, saying rorting by unscrupulous and unsafe installers has already led to the deaths of four installers and has put hundreds of homes at risk of fire. These experts have given SmartCompany photographs of a home in the Melbourne suburb of Vermont South, which has sustained massive fire and smoke damage, allegedly as a result of newly installed insulation.
A consultant with the insurance company involved with the investigation of the house fire, who spoke on condition of anonymity, says the insulation in the house was only installed three days ago. “This home only burned down two days ago, and the insulation was installed just the day before. We’ve just had the fire investigator point this out and he found some trigger points where the insulation was sparked around the lights.” The comments come as several industry leaders have pointed out the dangers of shoddy installation methods, particularly involving the dangerous mix of insulation and electrical fittings. If lights or other electrical cablings are not protected from the insulation, fires can occur. Peter Gerster, who owns and operates Melbourne-based insulation company Golden Fleece, says he has never seen such damage in more than 50 years of industry experience. He says the problems are a direct consequence of the Government’s $1200 rebate scheme, which has prompted workers to enter the industry using dodgy, cheap materials obtained from overseas. “The insulation market is a mess. There is this house that has just burned down, and I had a phone call from an industry friend a few days ago saying the insulation there was looking dodgy and I had better get up there to have a look at it.” Gerster says Environment Minister Peter Garrett has a lot to answer for, and wants the scheme to be reworked so underqualified installers are banned from operating. “The Government knew about it about eight months ago, and they have done absolutely nothing about this. It serves them right for getting into it.” The comments come as the Government has announced it will pay for home safety inspections for homes where foil insulation has been installed, after numerous safety complaints. The Opposition has said the Government is responsible for the scheme that has seen four installers lose their lives and $50 million spent or rebates for foil insulation. Garrett yesterday ordered about 37,000 audits of homes with foil insulation installed due to fears that several underqualified installation companies have caused the roofs to become dangerously susceptible to electrical fires. The Government will pay for electricians to inspect homes with foil insulation, with the total cost to reach about $1.4 million. If any flaws are found, the Government will attempt to work with insulation providers to fix the problems. Garrett has announced foil insulation will now be banned under the scheme. The latest problems come after a year of outcry from the the insulation industry and the Opposition regarding the insulation scheme. Industry insiders and experts have claimed the market has been flooded with cowboys rorting the system, with the Government even promising to name-and-shame unscrupulous providers. But Gerster says the activities of these providers are causing other companies, such as Golden Fleece, to be inundated with calls from paranoid buyers. “We have people calling us saying they’ve had insulation put it in and they don’t trust the people installing it. Of course, I say it’s got nothing to do with me, but I still have them calling me and I have to divert them to the Government.” But despite the problems with the scheme, Gerster says his business will suffer if the $1200 rebates, which have been scaled back from $1600, are scrapped altogether. “If it goes it will bugger the industry for a short time, probably for about three months because there will be heaps of stock everywhere and then people will reduce prices. “We just want to go back to doing work with our builders and giving services to builders for new homes, and that sort of thing. This whole thing is a nightmare.” Meanwhile, opposition leader Tony Abbott has jumped on the chance to attack Garrett over the scheme, noting the National Electrical and Communications Association even contacted him about electrical dangers. “We have an Environment Minister who has been utterly incompetent in the administration of his portfolio. We’ve got spending blowouts in just about every program that he runs. We’ve even had four people die as a result of incompetent work done under his program. “Given that the peak industry body representing electrical and communications contractors took the extraordinary step of alerting him in writing about the fire and electrical dangers surrounding the government’s home insulation program, why did it take seven weeks for one of their departmental officials to bother replying?” The problems come as the Government is also battling controversy over its “Green Loans” program, which offers interest-free loans for homeowners wanting to make green improvements based on recommendations from official assessments. However, accredited assessors have said these assessments cannot be booked due to a backlog of companies attempting to contact the Government department running the scheme. While last year it was expected it would take four years to complete the 350,000 assessments, it is now suspected these will be completed by April. |
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48 Comments
Is there any evidence that the insulation caused the fire? It can’t you know, it is faulty electrical work that causes the fires.
I am amazed at all of this given for ages now home handies have been installing their own insulation. I have taken advantage of this program and have already noticed a difference in the cooler inside this summer. I got in quickly as had been putting off for years this dirty and annoying job. I found it quite difficult to find an installer due to the nature of my very high ceilings but of those I spoke to..none suggested the foil type product.
This article is missing a key piece of information: what sort of insulation was installed in the Vermont South house? Foil, wool, glasswool? Do we all need to worry, or just those with downlights?
Ooh something bad happened. It must be the Guvment’s fault.
These photos dont shame Garrett
As Jenny so correctly asked was their a downlight involved?
It is likely that the insulation caused the fire but that would appear to be the installation companies fault.
The whole thing reads like a liberal propaganda piece.
Shame Garrett on all manner of things please eg Whales, Pulp mills, dredging ect but this is stretching a long bow.
If the fire was caused by something other than the insulation (and they can be) this piece of anti Garrett slander will shame Patrick Stafford more than Garrett.
exactly steve. while business shonks run riot, killing people to make a fast buck, others in line to profit like smartarse above, put in their two bob’s worth to attract more gullible clients. the article is nothing but a free plug from someone looking to get as much as they can from a well-intentioned government scheme. Insulation spivs have been killing and maiming people and destroying property for years, but nothing has been done. And guess what: the industry is self-regulated.
If, and it is still only an if, the insulation caused the fire, and negligence is established, the insurance company should seek to recover any payout from the installers. It is a mighty big stretch to blame Peter Garrett.
How ridiculous! Debunking a perfectly decent scheme (that obviously needs a few adjustments - like most ideas before they’re solid) on the basis of a couple of mishaps. Seriously. Let’s keep it all in perspective.
The other thing that occurs to me, is that all of Garrett’s problems are due to his programmes being VERY popular - simple things that stimulate the economy and help with energy conservation. Sure there’s problems and we’d all hope they didn’t happen (especially when people die), but at the end of the day, the problems come from the concept being such a good idea.
Mandy, the scheme has good intentions and needs at least one adjustment. I have installed insulation in the last 3 homes I have lived in plus some in my partners old home.
None of these homes have burnt down and i am still alive so i guess I feel pretty confident in my ability to do the job.
Unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the offer unless I pay someone else to do the install.
Here I am retired and time on my hands, plenty of skills (Electrical Eng Deg, so I won’t put a nail through the power cables, in fact I will turn off the power circuits involved before I go up in the ceiling) and I have to PAY someone to do a pretty simple job.
How do we sleep while our beds are burning?
(yes, I know, I’m going to h3ll for that remark)
The installation of insulation is entirely out of Garrett’s control and is more likely to be a state responsibility. Simply because a government is subsidising particular activities does not make it responsible for how they are carried out.
I have installed foil insulation in my own roof without any problem. Any insulation can be a problem if installed incorrectly - too close to halogen downlights, for example.
This story is a beat up and not what I subscribe to Crikey for. It would suit the Daily Telegraph better.
A very ordinary effort, Crikey.
The insulation rorts were well-known from the start of the scheme.
Foil insulation is idiotic: it’s not just a matter of bad electrical work inside roofs in the past- wiring is damaged by many things: rats, possums, residents clambering about, roof spaces used for storage, the deterioration of old wiring over decades, roof leaks…it’s anarchy up there…
It’s not just metal staples.
Why anyone would put metal foil over the top of all this crap is beyond belief. Says something about Canberra bureaucrats and the Minister. The technical terms are (a) ignorance (b) lack of common sense. DIY isn’t their forte, but they’re culpable because they should have been aware of their surfeit of (a) and dearth of (b).
The wretched Garrett has to go. 4 dead so far, 3 electrocuted. It’s called ministerial responsibility, the taking of.
Mandy:
“How ridiculous! Debunking a perfectly decent scheme (that obviously needs a few adjustments - like most ideas before they’re solid) on the basis of a couple of mishaps. Seriously. Let’s keep it all in perspective.”
Try the “perspective” of the parents of the dead.
There are hundreds of “live” roofs, acc. to the sample taken. It was predictable, and predicted.
Malcolm M
“This story is a beat up and not what I subscribe to Crikey for. It would suit the Daily Telegraph better.”
What would you prefer, Rundle’s tossery?
I watched Garrett et al in Parlt. today, and Garrett on Lateline. The scheme was misconceived, cobbled together by ignorant suits, flung out into suburbia with bulk money and scant regard for the obvious rorting that would follow. It did. This is the building industry, remember? Every second operator an incompetent shonk
…there were many warnings, but heeded too little and too late by the bureaucrats and Garrett.
Foil insulation has been on the market for at least twenty years. If it was so dangerous, why was it not banned a long time ago?
Agreed Malcolm. Further, it does serve a very useful function, despite Frank’s protests. Foil stops re-radiated heat and it’s cheap. Perfect for hot places with tled roofs.
You can’t ban everything because it’s dangerous and at some stage people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Foil insulation is basically Queensland-only. Pretty basic that you check where mains electricity goes before fitting metal staples.
The fires appear to be from placing insulation straight over halogen down-lights without putting cages on them to dissipate the heat.
Both are elementary pieces of good practice.
Frank Campbell “Says something about Canberra bureaucrats and the Minister. ” The only thing it says is that the government underestimated the extent to which the scheme would be rorted by get-rich-quick shonks, who regarded training as an unnecessary expense and have blood on their hand.
I can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. There’s an indifference to the chain of responsibility and dismissiveness over four avoidable deaths.
1. Foil appears to be Qld only. I’ve done many roofs in Vic and never seen it. If it is just a sheet of foil as we see it on TV today, its thermal properties would seem to be worse than useless, lying on joists. But even if OK, never on top of a ceiling where electric wires snake everywhere. Foil sarking is OK on the underside of a roof, but ceilings are asking for trouble.
2. Eponymous: “you can’t ban everything…”- there are perfectly good, safe insulation products. Any fool can see foil is potentially deadly laid on top of ceilings. Would you use it? Would you install it?
3. Malcolm Suzuki: the govt. “underestimated” everything, except the things they overestimated. Typical bureaucrats, they assumed that by saying or recommending something, it would happen. This is Garrett’s defence: there were many warnings, so he acted “decisively”- “decisive” meant another memo, more “advice”.
Garrett threw the money without heed for the consequences. When he was warned his reactions were ineffectual. Repeatedly. We all know the building industry is stuffed with ratbags, conmen and incompetents. Roof insulators are the bottom of that barrel- anyone can set up shop. Flood it with govt. money and what do you think will happen?
Frank, you’ve made it abundantly clear you don’t know anything about this topic with this line “its thermal properties would seem to be worse than useless” and yet you still berate others for disagreeing with you.
If I lived somewhere hot, with a roof material that re-radiated absorbed energy as IR I would definitely use it. I’d probably add it over the top of some sort of fibre insulation. Remember, insulation does 2 different jobs; stops radiated energy entering the house in summer (foil is bloody good at this) and keep warm air in the house in winter (thick insulation is brilliant for this). A combination of the 2 clearly will work very well all year round.
There are LOTS of work practises that are deadly if you do them wrong. Cars kill you if you drive them wrong. It appears the installers that died were not trained properly in the necessary safety procedures. Their employer should be professionally liable, if not criminally negligent as well. The Minister however is not. Do you really want a precedent where the minister has cause to intervene at such a micro level?
I see confected outrage here… Come on, there’s no way ministers are responsible for this. You might want to see Garrett sacked, well fine, but sack him for something he’s doing wrong.
Meski: I don’t ‘want to see Garrett sacked”. I’m a Greens voter and as much as Garrett has put himself in a wretched position I’d prefer him in that job that some ALP hack. By saying “there’s no way ministers are responsible for this” you show how far the concept of ministerial responsibility has faded…
Epon: I said I knew nothing about foil insulation’s thermal props. Down south we don’t use it. I could be convinced, but it’s irrelevant: you dont cover ceiling’s with something that conducts electricity. It might be put in correctly, but we all know how shambolic roof spaces are: see my first post. Have you ever been in one?
and to say “Cars kill you if you drive them wrong. It appears the installers that died were not trained properly in the necessary safety procedures.” This is (a) a false analogy and (b) doesn’t address the numerous linked problems of insulating, which are all magnified by the binge-spending on this program (not just foil either).
Frank: ‘but it’s irrelevant: you dont cover ceiling’s with something that conducts electricity.’
You’re being awfully cut-and-dry about this. can you see there are grey areas, in all this stuff. Petrol is explosive, some people sniff it, it kills lots of people every year. Should we ban it? No, it’s cheap and effective. Like I tried explaining before, foil insulation solves a problem, it’s cheap and effective. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?
Why is automobile use a false analogy? I’m making the point that because something is risky it should not necessarily be banned. There are a whole suite of other options available. Engineering controls; if the house was fitted with a current leakage switch there would not have been a fatality. Better training; if the installers better knew the dangers they could have guarded against them.
I think you’re a bit excited over this one.
Whether it conducts electricity or not would have been irrelevant had an earth leakage circuit breaker fitted. It’s mandatory now, what would be good PR for the government would be to have a subsidy to fit these[1]. It’d prevent a hell of a lot of deaths and electrical fires (not so much the thermal / downlight issues, though)
[1] And condemn houses that are wired with rubber or ghu forbid, the type that used wooden rails to insulate it (I’ve only seen the leftover rails, never a live installation)
Frank Campbell : Post 14
The wretched Garrett has to go. 4 dead so far, 3 electrocuted. It’s called ministerial responsibility, the taking of.
Frank Campbell : Post 23
Meski: I don’t ‘want to see Garrett sacked”.
[Edit - Please refrain from insults}
2Bob: You’re not the full two bob- can’t you read? I’m saying Garrett has to go because he has to accept ministerial responsibility (a concept some people on this thread don’t understand- and it has been a long time since MR has been taken seriously here). I’m not just casting around for an excuse to kick some minister’s arse for partisan reasons- which is of course what political parties do routinely.
And do read all the emails 2/-…hiding won’t make them go away.
Epon: there are two separate issues here (i) utility or otherwise of foil insulation. Govt has now banned it. So maybe it isn’t such a good idea after all. (ii) The risks in the insulation roll out were both obvious and predicted- by many. Everyone knew ratbag operators would flourish. They did. Who do they employ? Naive, inexperienced kids. Therefore the chain of responsibility does not stop at the criminal operator- it extends to the bureaucrats and the minister.
Ministerial responsibility in the recent past: check out Mick Young and the Paddington Bear affair. Also the two Fraser ministers, Moore and someone, who got the arse over a colour TV import…then compare what Hawke and Fraser did with Blairite Rudd’s “loyalty” to his minister.
I had insulation installed in my roof, the contract stated that he had installed 100M in the roof. Afterwards the house was hotter than B4 the insulation was installed, my son inspected the ceiling and there was minimal installation in the roof. The kitchen, hallway, laundry, bathroom, toilet and office was not done and the bedrooms & lounge room the installation did not cover all of the ceiling. Rang Dept of Envionment and they didn’t want to know about it as the contract had been signed, even though the Govt was being frauded as well as me as a taxpayer and also as the client. I was told to go to Fair Trading ACT who also didn’t want to know anything about it as they need 100+ complaints B4 they would do anything. I was told to contact the installer myself which I did and had the job completed after threatening him with the photos of his installation. Garrett should go if his Dept ignores complaints of fraud and criminal shoddy work, also my ceiling is only 84M not 100M as claimed. My neighbour also had the same installer who put in minimum insulation over the top of a ceiling fan and covered it over with hession which is a major fire hazard & have photos to prove it.
Let’s see what Meski, 2bob et al say about Betty Allan’s experience…
What I said before. I don’t see any ministerial responsibility for incompetent installers.
Re foil insulation being banned, that’s a knee-jerk reaction. Ideal insulation is foil bonded to fibreglass bats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_insulation
So foil insulation actually works better, if it’s installed right?
Meski, I wasn’t saying there was ministerial responsibility for incompetent installers, there is responsibility for not following up on frauding the Commonwealth.
@Betty: I’d almost say its a good reason to support licensing of the industry, but such things become excuses for bureaucracy, and in the end, don’t really guarantee quality of work. I’m sure there are incompetents that work to ISO 9001,
Garrett was asked by the PM to compress what would have been 39 years of retro ceiling installations (circa 70K per annum is the pre HIP installation rate) into 2 years 10 months.
The Lord Vishnu would expect problems under those circumstances. Even the 4 deaths to date would have been expected for the 1million installations (read 14.2 years worth of installations at the pre Home Insulation Program rate) completed in the past 12 months.
Notably, Garrett & his department DEWHA have in 12 months completely reorganised the fractious insulation industry (ie. new installation standards, standardised installer training, a standard for fire prone downlights) which could not achieve the same results in the previous 30 years of infantile bickering.
This reorganisation was essential if Australia is to begin bringing it housing stock up to world best design level as is now the case in the UK & the USA.
With energy prices to rise by up to 100% over the next decade, the 2.7 million Aussie homeowners who’ll have ceiling insulation by December 2011 will be forever indebted to Garrett for his foresight.
For the record, Peter Gerstner who’s quoted in this story, represents less than .5 of sweet bugger all in the Australian insulation market.
How such a mininscule player in this market can be quoted in this story as a representative of the insulation industry, is beyond me.
Care to comment, Patrick Stafford????
Garrett didn’t do his homework on this. Foil based insulation over ceilings has always been a concern for electrical isolation, and performance. Some insulation materials are a potential fire risk. History has shown that when insulation demand is high in Australia, shonky short term operators appear, short cuts are taken for the quick dollar, and the consumer suffers. All this was predictable, and the government was warned of the risks years ago.
Kevin - I guess you’re who I think you are?
Call it like it is
this is an attempt by a strident ,vicious desperate opposition to target a minister they think is vulnerable.
Every house built or renovated in the last 15 years or any rental property is required to have earth leakage breakers or saftey switches installed at the power board.
This would trip the second some Irish backpacker put a nail through a power cable .This is designed to save lives
not having Peter Garret in the roof watching if it was done properly
If you dont have these your an idiot .This should “Short Circuit” the argument.
Frank Campbell:
Ministerial responsibility?……that was removed forever by Howard, along with the public service’s independence. You only sack a Minister now, if he’s an electoral liability. And at present Garret’s a long way from that point.
It’s the 21st century in Oz……where political parties differ only in name.
Nonetheless, Garrett’s foresight in launching this extremely ambitious scheme will be heralded as the start of true residential energy efficiency measures for Oz’s 6.1 million dwellings.
If you want a really big political scandal yet to surface, ask the responsible State Ministers how they can justify a 1 to 5 star home energy rating scheme, when 5 star homes currently being marketed by the new homes market, would be lucky to rate as 2 stars. Consumers are being shafted comprehensively, as there’s no in-situ testing to verify claims…it’s all theory based on flawed, way out of date software.
Fortunately, in the May 2011 Building Code of Australia new homes will have to meet strict testing guidelines for the awarding of energy rating stars. The stars offered to date are a crock.
Some States will insist that homes being sold must be star rated at sale.
There’s a long way to go in bringing Aussie homes up to EU & US energy efficiency standards.
I should have followed up Ross James’ clue earlier: Kevin Herbert, singing Garrett’s praises-
KH: spokesman for the Cellulose Installation Manufacturers Association, right?
What happened to declaration of pecuniary interests?
If only you all knew.
I owned that house 2 years ago and am devastated that this has happened after all the hard work that was done renovating it before it was sold.
All lighting was completed to code and in fact had been working fault free for over 2 years.
The house had existing blow in insulation that was more than adequate and was regularly racked to make sure it was uniform in density through out the roof.
Speaking to neighbours the insulation was fitted on the friday before the fire and as it was unoccupied until the Monday night this happened. The new owners had been cleaning the house prior to moving in and obviously left a down light on with disasterous conequences.
From my look at the damage the next day after the fire. The wool had been directly layed over the down light fittings which is what led to the fire.
The poor implementation of this scheme and the disgusting process for approving installers has led to the almost total destruction of of a home I spent many many months hours making look spectacular prior to sale.
I personally feel gutted this has happened and feel very bad for the new owners who will never be able to enjoy the home I spent so much time creating. It was spectacular when it was finished. Destroyed by a dickhead politicians poor grasp of the realities of the building services industry and human nature.
GARRET SHOULD GO
BTW there was 42 downlights in the roof of that house
Old owner: But now everything’s going to be OK, because Rudd has taken full responsibility.
But he’s also changed his phone number and is wearing a black wig.
@Old owner: If it had existing insulation, I don’t really understand why it would qualify for the government scheme.
To home-owners with QH downlights: Think carefully about having them removed. They aren’t efficient, and having 42 installed in a house is going to negate the effect of insulating, as far as making your home more energy efficient. Look at LED or CF downlights, which are often fittable without needing an electrician. They lave a longer life, too.
Meski: What’s QH stand for? They’re the 12v halogenic lights?
Something no one ever mentions with devices that use transformers (particularly with AC) is that they use power ALL THE TIME. Hysterisis losses occur whether the load on the other end is switched on or not.
QH = Quartz Halogen[2]. They shouldn’t use power when not on, as they are switched on the primary side of the transformer[1] Replacing my lights with compact fluoros drops the total consumption with all lights on to less than the wattage of one incandescent fitting (which has two bulbs in it, in my case)
[1] These days, the transformers are high frequency inverter type, aka ‘electronic’ which don’t suffer hysteresis losses (or not to the same extent) - they are also dimmable, which the old 50Hz transformers are not.
[2] The reason they get hot at the top of the fitting is that they use dichroic reflectors, which reflect visible light down, and absorb infrared - which therefore is going into the ceiling.
@meski,
“If it had existing insulation, I don’t really understand why it would qualify for the government scheme”
You tell me and we will both know !
Its typical of the waste that this scheme engendered. I would estimate 40% or more of the houses that where “Insulated” under this scheme already had insulation. But as the Gavernemnet would never know if they had it or not. These dodgy bastard installers would just run the material and claim the rebate regardless of whether the houses needed insulation or not. It was a rort plain and simple.
As I said before, implementation of this scheme was a joke.
@OldOwner
“Its typical of the waste that this scheme engendered. I would estimate 40% or more of the houses that where “Insulated” under this scheme already had insulation.”
Oh? And through what thorough research did you reach that conclusion?
Roof insulation has been manditory in houses here in victoria for well over 15 years. Add to that the fact that many many houses bult in the last 20-30 years had it all ready.
People are not stupid, how many people do you know who didnt already have insulation in their roof? Do you really think that people run air conditioners in summer and heaters in winter in Victoria and see 50% of the effect go out the roof.
I dont know anyone amonst my freinds in houses ranging from 20-30 years old, that didnt already have it.
The area I live in now has houses that age and the number of mystery vans driving around this area stuffed with insulation waiting to jump out of the cars and literally THROW batts into roofs and collect their gold pay cheques was literally amazing.
If there had of been a co payment for this service you would have found a bit more discerning application of the rebate. Instead if the rot it turned out to be.