Abbott buggered by his own baggage
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Poor Tony Abbott. Twice this week he has been comprehensively done over in the media. And he has only himself and the Howard Government to blame. He’d better get used to it. Like Kevin Rudd – although without the national tour – Tony Abbott decided to offer some policy substance in the lead-up to Australia Day, picking immigration and population size. There’s no doubt that many in the Coalition are dead keen to run hard on immigration and border security. Five minutes after returning to the front bench last year, Kevin Andrews – who as Immigration Minister presided over an annual intake of more than 200,000 immigrants – called for an 85% slashing of immigration. And the steady drip of boats to Christmas Island is one of the few issues on which Labor has looked rattled and Kevin Rudd struggled to handle last year. The Coalition will push hard on that, because it’s one of the few things it’s got going in its favour at the moment. But contrary to the claims in the Fairfax press of “human rights advocate” Marion Le – who can go blow for blow with the worst right-wing commentators for mind-numbingly tedious predictability – there was nothing offensive about Abbott’s speech. Yes, there were certainly some clunky comments in them. He strained like a true successor to John Howard to explain just how fair white settlement had been in Australia. And the line “Australia makes very few demands of its immigrants” is very much open to misinterpretation. But in fact Abbott made some thoughtful observations and was rather more balanced than might have been expected from the Leader of an Opposition showing disturbing signs of populism. He readily noted that Australia has a smaller asylum seeker problem than many countries. And when was the last time you heard a senior Coalition figure chastise supporters of the “send them home” approach to asylum seekers for demonising them? “Supporters of border protection need to understand that it’s no reflection on boat people that they want to come to Australia,” Abbott said. “At worst, boat people are guilty of choosing hope over fear.” And he admitted that it was “…far from obvious how to strike a judicious balance” on asylum seekers, but “a country that’s alive to the shades of grey inherent in aspects of government policy is more likely to find an acceptable balance between competing moral claims.” This was not 2001 stuff. And in raising Sheik al-Hilaly’s anti-semitism and disgusting comments about women, Abbott – bravely, for such a prominent Catholic — coupled them with a comparison to Archbishop Mannix during the First World War. “There has hardly been a time when there were not some reservations about the loyalty of particular ethnic or religious groups. A generation or two on, all of them have eventually become as Australian as everyone else.” Abbott’s broader argument was that a high immigration program was (contra Kevin Andrews) desirable but that people needed to be assured the infrastructure planning would accommodate a growing population and that Governments had firm control over immigration policy. There’s something a little self-serving in Coalition insisting that being tough is the true humanity in border protection, not merely for discouraging dangerous attempts to reach Australia by boat but because it reduces hostility to high immigration. Nevertheless, the link between public support for, or at least lack of opposition to, high immigration and the belief that the Government has tight control of who is coming in (regardless of how illusory that is given visa overstayers), was prima facie demonstrated during the Howard years and we have yet to see a convincing refutation of it. But Abbott’s subtler points about how best to prevent opposition to high immigration were lost in a manufactured hubbub over racism. Those are chickens from 2001 and afterward coming home to roost. The Coalition spent so long demonizing asylum seekers and politicizing border security while in Government that its bad faith on immigration issues is automatically assumed. It’s a variant of that LBJ anecdote about how all the South ever heard in election campaigns was “nigger, nigger, nigger.” Abbott has his own personal version of that problem, demonstrated neatly by another confected outrage, over his comments about virginity. Journalists, and most likely voters as well, already have such a strong impression of what Abbott stands for that they only hear what they think Abbott would say, not what he actually did say. The most sensible take on Abbott’s comments I heard was from Paul Bongiorno on NewsRadio, who described them as “terribly old-fashioned”. They were nothing more or less than that, and let’s not forget Catholics aren’t exactly alone in having a double standard about female sexuality. And Abbott has three daughters (unfortunately dragged into the public spotlight, complete with photos), not sons, so it’s a bit rich to have a go at him for not extending his analysis of teen sexuality to boys as well. Moreover, his main point seemed to be that, given his own youth, he’s hardly in a position to lecture anyone about s-xual morality. If only a few of the arch-reactionaries and misogynists in the Catholic Church would listen to him. Nevertheless, that’s a practical example of a point that some of us have made about Abbott’s low “undecided” figures in polling: when people think they have a good idea of what you stand for, it’s pretty hard to break out of that stereotype, and all the harder if you’re careless enough to honestly answer questions. Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull, who both have daughters, may well have the same views on the same topic, but it’s a non-issue for them because they don’t carry such enormous, and self-imposed, baggage on such matters. So much for Abbott not having a “women problem”. The media laud politicians who are “authentic” and “honestly answer questions”. But that doesn’t stop them tearing them apart when they proceed to do just that. See why so many pollies – and our fearless leader, most of all – negate all signs of personality and stick to the talking points? |
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Crikey's Guide to Julia Gillard
58 Comments
Yeah, but …!
I just wonder if TA spluttered his weeties all over the kitchen table last Saturday morning when he got the press: PM is Murdoch press Australian of the Year. Akerman obviously didn’t get a vote.
Is good to criticise exploitation of children (including own but also kindy, school etc) as political props by any of the big pollies. I’m want a campaign against the cynical practice.
One sobering comment from TA a few weeks back - “No one is perfect.” A very broad brush that. There’s a biblical reference and all. But the thing is in a dangerous world, people will surely vote for a “toxic bore” over an adventurer.
Now, I detest Tony Abbott and the horse he rode in on as much as the next person, but I think Bernard has got this completely right. Terrific analysis which says much about the media’s laziness and willingness to jump directly to micro-sentence spin and A-vs-B controversy. Does anyone actually read full articles any more?
My comfort is to know that in this case the collective sloth will finish Abbott. Quite cold comfort, I find.
Dont’t like Abbott either, but respect his honesty - at least he is more interesting to listen to than Krudd. Unfortunate for him that he decided to tell the truth about this virginity issue because he looks like a bit of an idiot now.
However, as a sensitive feminist type I couldn’t help but be offended by his comments. Yes he was talking about his daughters and yes he doesn’t have any sons, but he should have had the know-how to say something inclusive about all young people valuing their bodies. He should have questioned the assumption inherent in the question itself - that is that maintaining ones virginity is a significant issue just for women instead of it being a significant issue for all people.
The part about virginity being a ‘gift’ particularly offended me and means nothing to young people. For most teenagers virginity is not a gift, but a sort of embarrassing failure. Now I’m not saying that this is the way it should be, but suggesting that virginity is a ‘gift’ implies that someone has given you something that you should keep (because it is terribly rude to throw away a gift…right?). It is as if this person giving you the gift (God I presume) is the one that should decide when you give it away. That just makes me extremely uncomfortable - to suggest that an old man in the sky gave me my virginity and he will decide who I give it to (because, God will decide who I marry you see - he’s got a plan). Where do I come into all this? When do I get a right to decide who will have access to my body and who will not? I mean really - this is just offensive.
Now - I know that I’ve taken this too far and that all that stuff about God is not what TA said etc. etc. So apologies to everyone complaining loudly - but I just had to say how offensive I found that ‘gift’ stuff. Totally grossed out now.
Bri
I’m sick to death of the pro-Liberal agenda in Crikey. This is not what I signed up for.
Good article Bernard, letting the facts get in the way of a good headline, yet again.
Last sentence is a very interesting observation BK ….”See why so many pollies – and our fearless leader, most of all – negate all signs of personality and stick to the talking points?”. The public face of the leader I understand is not that of the private Kevin Rudd.
Incidently I heard The Opposition Treasury spokeperson Mr Hockey heaping praise on Tony Abbott’s contribution as leader, t’other day. Those immortal words of Marcus Antonius
about another leader of long ago came to mind…I COME TO BURY CAESAR,NOT TO PRAISE HIM!
I will personally gut the next “churnalist” who links border security to the rights of refugees.
They are totally disconnected. The refugee convention is ANTI-BORDER SECURITY. It is not to be used to deter refugees, nor to defend borders against them.
For pete’s sake can we all stop this frigging whining about an average of 7 people per day who arrived to ask for help?
No policy we write has any right to break the law.
A lot of non-politicos I speak to only really knew him bits and pieces of his past.
All know him from the story about his lost and found and lost son.
(This story provides him with lot of public sympathy)
Some know him as a Howard Minister but not sure for what portfolio
(This provides him with a broad level of respect)
Some know him for his horror week on the 2007 campaign, ie Bullsh_t to Roxon and coldness to Bernie Banton
They know him but they dont really really know him. I think the virginity comments and citizenship comments would come as a surprise to many.
The twitter and facebook posts have gone midly haywire with the Abbott jokes. It is going to provide a years worth of material for every comedian and within a few months his views will be known by everyone in the country.
It will also limit Abbotts ability to be an effective antipolitician on FM radio and light TV shows because they will always ask these sorts of questions.
I think his approvals will break soon and break hard.
Tony the hypocrite remember the story last year about him and a son he thought he had.
well and he has the cheek to talk about woman and virginity.
I would think that men need to respect woman also , i notice he did not include the men in our
country in his comments, Some say thats because he has no sons hum bug.
. Typical when he had julie ??? deputy leader at his side and the words he uttered made me cringe. every time he is on t.v. i walk out of the room.
I wish there was an extra button on the t.v. e.g. the mute button a button that would blacken the tv. till he has left it.
as a woman scares me, his views on our bodies and what we personally decide..
His poor daughters they now have to go out in to the world and face their peers.
Its none of our business what he tells his children and he should have kept it that way
No policy ideas on any things except an army running around the country cleaning up the
co2. He is joke he new exactly what he was saying i wonder who’s vote he is trying to attract
no one in my family of mainly girls i can tell you ( o yes and they are voting age)
o and w.w. i will not be buying.
An open letter from the Aboriginals to Captain Phillip, leader of the liberals.
When you whitefellas come to our land we have few demands of you immigrants. these are:
1.) Don’t steal our land.
2.) Don’t kill us.
3.) Don’t mistreat us in any way.
4.) Don’t impose your religion on us.
5.) Don’t give us your alcohol or diseases.
Then I’m sure we can get on just fine.
@my say
“…he has the cheek to talk about woman and virginity…”
Are you always this gullible? Have you even read the ‘interview’?
He was asked a direct question regarding his daughters.
How would you have responded?
“…as a woman scares me, his views on our bodies and what we personally decide…”
Good grief.
Would you like a second, larger helping?
i wonder why people say mr. Rudd is a bore it just fascinates me what do they want.
HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTRY AND US TIRELESSLEY.
he does no express views on every subject under the sun, he just goes about this business of being a p.m.
He may not have the wit of some past p.m. Hawke and Keating but i would say he is the most intellectual p.m. this country has had.
I ask again what sort of person do people want. Is question time and listening to Mr. Rudd your main interest in life hanging on his every word, we all know question time is theatre.
Its the policies that matter.
NO W.CHOICES.
SAYING SORRY ( howard told us the sky would fall in it did not)
saying sorry to the displaced people of this country.
AND GETTTING US THROUGH THE G crisis.
Realising that teaching our children as best we can will make a great nation.
caring about the hospital situation.
introducing spot check again ( howard got rid of them) for nursing homes
this one is dear to me as i have experienced the site of all my 4 parents ( in laws in homes)
Infrustructure during the GFC nothing was done for 11 years.
We had all that money in kitty and i dont remember one worthwhile prject that inspired or built the country up.
its not what man says and i have no trouble understanding him i quite enjoy his speeches in parliament. it is the policies that count.
Liberals/ work choices back again
they would proably sell medicare, they may even bring back detention centers with barb wire. send us to another unjust war.
send dogs down on the wharf among our own people
Do you want me to go on . The was they worst 11 years of our history.
In the future the history book will not be kind to this time.
For goodness sake some say he is a geek etc, I think he is the best p.m. we have ever had.
and probably the most educated. I am so sick of people making comment about his speeches if others think they can do better well stand for parliament and one day you may be
pm.tooooooo
come on if i was ask about this i would of said what i tell my children stays in the home.
nest question.
You are such a liberal i have seen your comment elsewhere.
i am not staying around to see any more comments lots to do.
Not a lot of people seem to have read the article so far. Please comment on the actual contents, not what you think was written in the Women’s Weekly, then re-hashed through the Herald.
It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for Abbott, but the quotes from the interview were much more reasoned and balanced than I thought him capable of.
There is some solace in this for the Liberals…
It gives them a week without Barnaby in the headlines!
Tony Abbott is married AND has THREE daughters????
If ever there was a man with a “women problem” ‘tis surely he!
Buggered by his own baggage?
The last paragraph is right on the money.
Tony’s comments have been taken out of context. It is Kevin and Julia who should be ashamed. I’m not even a liberal voter, but I think this is just a beat up.
Re Sexual Lobster…
Its the cut and thrust of politics ole crust. Give the enemy an inch etc What surprises me is Abbott appears to have learned very little about dealing with the media over his long and somewhat ineffectual career. Any questions about his family surely would be best answered with a no comment and ensure the media realise his family is off limits, something the PM has generally been successful doing. Of course some times it is an advantage to have ones spouse in the public eye. The PM’s better half was and still is happy to show her new slimline self, read books to kids, speak at functions, rarely hear about his own kids.They are well sheltered from the media. Obviously at the slightest hint of a slip, the other side is in like Flynn. Is what it is all about.
TRI
Actually, what YOU should do is get off your lazy arse, run for parliament yourself, and deliver your cultural studies “inclusive” sermons, rather than telling others what they should say and how they should say it. Jesus, the self-centredness of some of you people is nauseating.
BK
This has nothing to with roosting chooks. It is about the appalling reading comprehension skills on the hacks hired by The Age and the low rent “journalism” that rag has descended into over the past few years
Skep
Wot,
And give up my career as trainee pope ?
Those hirsute and acquiescent media mavens inthe MSM are just pissed that Tony Abbott’s daughters are H-O-T.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/27/2802389.htm?site=thedrum
But Skep you stay and read, you torture yourself, you are in pain, you inflict this upon yourself, but the self-centredness of some of us people is nauseatingly satisfying. You like it, you enjoy the buzz
more!! more!! I hear you cry 
Thank BK for saying it like it is! I am not a Liberal supporter, but I think most reasonable readers would find, once actually reading it. that TA was grossly misquoted. Yes, his views are radical at times but more importantly, being the ‘Shadow PM’ he should know better by now, ie. how, what and when to talk to the media!
PS: A bit creepy photo of him and his daughters, wouldn’t you say?
David
No, I see it more as a public duty. I used to volunteer in a soup kitchen, but I needed a change. So here I am.
Good article BK. Thanks for the read.
SHEPHERDMARILYN - NUGGET - I agree with you!
As a woman who was raised a Catholic and put up with the whole misogynist attitudes re contraception and even sex itself, plus Abbott’s own interference in and opinions/actions re women’s choices(RU 486, abortion etc) my hackles rise at anything he has to say that relate to women, whether he includes his daughters or not! He’s a practising catholic who believes in the teachings of those misogynists who make the rules! Very few in support of women, in fact, if I complied with the ruling on contraception, I’d probably be dead now - like too many women in the past!
He’s a hypocrite at best!
As the mother of three adult sons, I started to teach them at an early age re having respect for women; being irresponsible re their sexual activities, and the horrific ramifications for any woman who has an unplanned pregnancy. As young teenagers I impressed the importance of friends, girls and boys, and let them know that women aren’t on the planet for their use and benefit - they were taught all the necessary skills for self-sufficiency, and all can cook, clean, iron etc. I also impressed on the importance of love, respect and care in relationships. When people told me I didn’t have to worry about unwanted pregnancies as I didn’t have any daughters, my response was, “yes, but if I bring my sons up to be little s***s without respect for women, they could impregnate your daughter/s - how many in a 9 month period do you think?” I felt a very grave sense of responsibility, and fortunately didn’t have any reason to be concerned. I emphasized the need for contraception, and not to assume that the young woman was using contraception - they were responsible for their own fertility? I also didn’t have any time for double standards or derogatory terms - I challenged them and their friends, and then we’d talk about it!
I heard today, that the number of teenage pregnancies in the US has increased alarmingly over the last 10 yrs or so - some are blaming George W’s so-called ‘abstinence only education’ - how dumb and irresponsible?
As to Abbott and his so-called ‘gift’ re virginity idea? How gross!
I’d like him to come clean about all of his past activities while at University????He didn’t even hang around when he thought that child was his? Says it all really!
Those hirsute and acquiescent media mavens inthe MSM are just pissed that Tony Abbott’s daughters are H-O-T.
MPM - it’s the 21st century now.
Don’t you think it’s time you liberated your sexual politics?
@ Matthew Davis, classic comment - I agree.. probably wanted 1 d**k but ended up with 6 t*ts!
I see nothing wrong with TA’s comments and actually think he speaks alot of sense which is likely to be supported by alot of parents with young children. I actually think TA has alot more in common with the ordinary person than Rudd, religion aside (although KR is also a churchie ‘supposedly’).
I am sure that everyone is looking forward to the pre-election scare campaigns on TA, should make for interesting viewing. Has anybody else noticed that KR is not nearly as much in the media as he used to be? what is he doing? waiting for TA to trip up and then pounce?
The other important issue that many people have overlooked in all this “Abbott= Mysoginist!” talk is that it is also deeply homophobic.
If you are tying sex with marriage by saying that virginity is a “gift” that should be given only when one is married, you are effectively saying same-sex attracted people - people who, thanks to the laws that YOUR government introduced, cannot marry - must therefore never have sex. Despite the fact that their sex life would be perfectly legal, Tony apparently thinks they should go without sex FOREVER. Because when Tony is talking about using contraception if you *must* have sex, he is talking about preventing pregnancy - hardly something gay couples have to contend with.
This is effectively why the Liberal Party will never win the vote of anyone under the age of 50 while Abbott is leader; he is totally out of touch - despite having “hot” daughters - with what young people think and feel. Turnbull might have alienated the extreme right wing of his party, but at least his way of thinking vaguely resonated with young voters.
Like it or not, old Libs, people under the age of 40 have grown up in a world that is more inclusive, tolerant and empathetic than those before it. They don’t fear God because they haven’t been raised to believe in him; they don’t fear or loathe sex because they have been brought up to believe it is a natural part of life; the don’t fear and hate homosexuals because they know at least one very well - they know they aren’t two-headed monsters and they are appalled that there are people out there who believe they deserve to be cast into the pit of Hell.
Unless the Liberal Party move into the 21st century - doubly so if Malcolm Turnbull forms a centrist, pro-Republic, pro-Green party - they will be consigned to the scrapheap of history within a few short years.
Most intellectual Prime Ministers? Deakin, Whitlam, Menzies, Hawke, Keating, Hughes Rudd. Others - (Bruce, Curtin, Chif, Watson, Fisher, Fraser) were as smart, but not ‘intellectual’. (Poor old McMahon falls, as he always does, at the bottom of these lists, just under Holt, Barton, Cook, Forde, Page and McEwen).
Re: the debate on virginity - is anyone else disturbed by ‘promise rings’ bestowed by parents? Choices are choices, adn should be respected, but enforced? If a ‘liberal’ couple encouraged their 16 yo to have sex, it would raise eyebrows, surely. And rightly. I know a young girl who wanted to save herself for marriage, adn her fiance raped her. Awful, awful stuff…
Found a goose
Most Deluded Mama
It is deluded fools like you who will prove to be a bigger baggage to the right than even tony rosary.
Aboott buggered! Was it a catholic thing?
@ Chinda63 - I’m not sure there is a hidden agenda on gay rights within the womans weekly article. The ALP is just as archaic with gay rights and you could perhaps even call the ALP hypocritical given Penny Wong is proudly gay.
I think you have clearly taken the bait on the ‘mad monk’ but if you listen carefully, he makes alot of sense (as the polls are now starting to indicate) and would not be stupid enough to commit political assasination by airing hard core catholic values that do not resonate with todays society. As he said, he is not one to preach given his background.
Oh yeah, I am well under 40 and I can tell you that the Liberal vote is alive and well within this demographic, perhaps getting stronger now that KR has turned out to be a bit of a let down.. In terms of the “scrapheap”, I remember saying the same thing about the ALP in the early noughties.
K R had one job: get rid of Howard. He did that - now he can leave.
i am outraged that Tony Abbott doesn’t share my opinions.I am outraged by the reports in the Fairfax press.It matters diddly squat that he didn’t actually say what they reported.You know he may have said that sometime.So I am very angry.Tony get your ovaries off my rosary (my sides are splitting at that barb)
Why can’t you be more like more like Mr Rudd with his forthright focus group tested opinions.
I remember he said people smugglers were scum…and he didn’t care what people smugglers thought of that comment. He’s a straight arrow alright..very forthright!!
@ David Lewis - I presume you know the IQ of the said ‘intellectuals’ otherwise there are a few which would probably drop out straight away!
@ mysay
“His poor daughters they now have to go out in to the world and face their peers.”
Knowing their Catholic father has… values.
What sort of world do you live in, mysay?
Catherine Lumly said it all tonight, when she observed, that Abbott’s views are certainly of another era - let’s keep our daughters ‘pure’ and then hand the ‘prize’ over to another man(her husband, of whom we approve?) and if she’s violated in any way, well, ‘she made her bed - now let her lie in it’? After all, she owes her loyalty to her husband - doesn’t she???YUK!!! AARRRHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
THE DUKE - Oh yes, and you’d appreciate some man assuring you, that his daughter is good value because he’s made sure she’s a virgin, and therefore you can ‘train’ her to suit you? [Edit - please refrain from insulting other commenters] If he made assertions on behalf of both sexes I may take another look at him, but to reinforce the archaic practice of men owning their daughter’s sexuality and their ‘divine’ role to hand ‘it/her’ over to another man of whom he approves is sick - really sick! Men owning women - god, haven’t we moved forward from this 50’s/60’s view?
I hope that at least one of his daughters sees through his revolting ‘plan’ and tells him to get lost? What’s the next step Tony? Fathers saving the sheets after the wedding night to prove that their daughters were ‘good girls’? Of course, if her husband rapes her, we all know that it’s not really rape is it? I mean, he has rights doesn’t he?
You blokes? Fair dinkum! How were you brought up? I shudder to think. Please stay away from my grand-daughters -[edit]
You’d think that at this stage in our evolution exercise, you could at least pretend to be intelligent, insightful and just human beings? Tell me, how many of you would swap tomorrow and be a woman in this world as it is - to be ‘sold’ to the highest(most deserving to her father) bidder? I feel disgusted and frustrated! After all these years, we still have men like Abbott, THE DUKE and others! No wonder I feel like chaining my young grand-daughters to my anke?
Ask Abbott what he got up to while he was a Uni student?
Liz
Good question
Do what I say not what I do, unless you are male, then it is OK?
Abbott to his daughters
Here is my advice, I of course did something completely different.
Its a bit of coalition thing nugget.
And it looks like goosedetector has your number most deluded mama.
@twobib
“…And it looks like goosedetector has your number most deluded mama…”
Of course he does.
I now have my own personal stalker.
I look forward to the snappy repartee you both bring to the conversation.
You are much too smart for me.
Thus far Tony Abbott’s sounding less extremist with his sermons on parenting and immigration espousing the common theme that it’s perfectly normal for each of us to harbour hopes and dreams. As a parent he’d like to raise three morally balanced daughters while our eager refugees are aiming at settling in a safe family haven. Whether its Australian citizenship or virginity Tony for once is agreed life is better if you win your dream prize.
Abbott leads a Coalition with a heap of homophobic yesterdays men. Start with the big mouth member for Kalgoorlie and keep counting. A bunch of elderly, out of touch, tunnel vision religious nutters. They have as much chance of appealing to the under 50’s as Andrew Bolt believing in global warming
I never believed I would be saying this but “fair and balanced” Bernard.
You are now ready for your job at Fox News…. so pack your bags!
“Fair and balanced” fame and glory await, not to mention a seven figure annual stipend.
i couldn’t care less my life friend was not a virgin. in fact she has two gorgeous children who have made her the calm, beautiful, supporting, funny soul she is today. now to go out with a virgin, or even marry one, now that is baggage. virginity is a tool used by the church so people don’t connect with life and the feelings one’s body comes with. abbott wants to dumb/quell everyone down like his silly sect has been doing for 1700 years. but hey, if you want to save it, save it, it’s the rootee’s choice, unless a priest gets you in the backroom first.
Gillby,
So the logical extension of this train of thought is that rooters are never virgins.
p.s I think the back room is only for altar boys.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
This is just Tony talking to his daughters in my opinion. Of course he is not going to say “Go forth and bonk”. Fathers see their daughters as 10 year olds.
Seriously though, why so much focus on virginity? Most people don’t miss it when it’s gone and it’s not really a draw card, performance-wise in my opinion. Sure, first there and all that, but it’s not as if you’re climbing Everest.
The catholic church gets into the no sex before marriage thing, but its one rule that is usually ignored by most sensible people (Tony Abbott included) On another note, I also find it interesting that islam teaches that the martyr lives on in paradise with 70 virgins. Do female martyrs get the same deal? Surely that can’t be a draw card.
Nice one Scott
Scott
Already covered by Achmed the dead terrorist YouTube.
I believe only if martyr dies in a holy war, doesn’t stipulate sex of virgins (or martyr)!
@Liz45 - what the heck are you on about and why do you feel the need to insult so easily? we all know your feminist views very well, you are too predictable, but what have I said to indicate that I am some sort of shovenist p*g? I gather that is the way you are trying to paint me?
all I was saying is that TA’s comment on virginity, male or female, is likely to resonate well with the majority of parents. Firstly, I am not a parent but I can imagine that if I had a daughter, I would like her to try and make sure ‘the first time’ was atleast memorable. do you NOT agree????? or are you from Nimbin???
and, where exactly in the article is TA saying that he “owns” his daughters? I am sorry if your background has been what it is, but leave your personal insults out of this forum. I hope your grandaughters have less of a chip on their shoulder than you do!
I only know two females (one in her forties, the other mid-thirties) who are still virgins. I know, unbelievable isn’t it? Both are “Christians”. Both so issued up to the proverbial t*ts because they’re wilting like lettuce leaves on a 40 degree day. Both are actually quite attractive, smart people (ignoring the fact they believe in an invisible sky-tyrant) but are now UNattractive to any males their age who are freaked out by the virginity thing. But they both stick to it. I guess they’d look kinda dumb if they eventually “relented” and got laid. Very sad. I’m sure that if they’d let go a little, both would be married by now. I’m sure Abbott wouldn’t want this for his daughters. And just another example of how religion can screw your life up, if you’ll excuse the expression.
@The Duke - in order of best Prime Ministers - that’s a different thing: Chif (at least in my view) probably comes in first… and by ‘intellectual’, i mean those with a grasp of intellectual pursuits: Deakin was proably the best read of all the Prime Ministers, followed by Whitlam and then I’d guess Hughes… I wasn’t commenting on which ones were good PMs….
“Thanks to a better understanding of pollution and effective measures against it, the sharks are back in Sydney Harbour.”
Wow Tony – sharks eh? They’re the critters which sit near the top of the food chain aren’t they? What about the bottom dwellers? And since when have you been concerned about anthropogenic pollution? Do you know the difference between a VOC and a sock?
Perhaps you should dismiss your speech writer because in the same month as your Victorian address the media reported that the NSW Liberal Party had got their hands on some damning evidence:
“Air pollution in Sydney dramatically worsened last year with one in 10 days officially failing air quality standards.
.”A “poor air quality” day is declared when the Regional Air Quality Index is 100 or greater.
“The figures showed high pollution days, which breached national standards, were increasing.
“The health costs of air pollution in the Sydney basin are well over $4 billion,” says Opposition climate change and environmental sustainability spokeswoman, Catherine Cusack!”
And I understand that a total ban on fishing remains at Homebush Bay because of dioxin contamination, and a ban on commercial fishing in the rest of the Sydney Harbour and its tributaries, including the Parramatta River where industrial chromium VI is feeding the fish.
Hey Tony - what about the 22,000 tonnes of hexachlorobenzene, which has been languishing in 55,000 rusting drums and under car parks at Botany for over twenty years – a terrorists’ paradise since all ttempts by Orica to flog it off for destruction to some other hapless nation have failed.
Well Tony your spin is not so different to Dennis Jenkins’s hubris. Jenkins claims that fossil fuels do no harm so why is he tearing around the nation trying to flog off nuclear to the unwitting public and who’s paying his expenses? Anyhow Jenkins won’t be any loss will he since he’s lost pre-selection twice (Yellowcake Johnny stuck his beak into state affairs the first time ) and there’s heaps more grim reapers in your party to carry on the hubris.
Tsk tsk!
GREGB: You happen to have hit on a subject I feel quite deeply about. Why should marriage be the ultimate goal of all women? You mention these screwed-up by religion females (I couldn’t agree with you more about what tragedies religion causes) but why shouldn’t being laid-and hopefully thoroughly enjoying the experience-be an aim in itself? But in your iconography, no one would want to marry them.
I must be hopelessly old fashioned. I just do not see why women cannot enjoy sex, enjoy life, and be thoroughly satisfied with their careers, be loving and thoughtful people, without having the imprimateur of a marriage certificate. Why should it take a man to validate a woman’s perception of herself and/or the community’s perception of her?
I question Mr Abbot’s judgement in agreeing to an interview where he could be pretty sure he was going to be asked about his daughter’s sex lives. It seems a fairly blatant attempt to appeal to ‘the female vote’ at the expense of his daughters’ privacy. As to what he said, well, it is old-fashioned but I wasn’t that outraged.
GregB this is going to sound harsh, but if I was your friend and still a virgin (horrors!) I would never tell you because I could not bear your pity. Surely if we embrace that it’s OK to have sex ‘before marriage’ (or whatever) then it’s also OK to not have sex? Let’s not keep attaching shame to it (or the lack of it). It seems mean to think of them as ‘sad’. And also ‘wilting lettuce leaves’. I can’t imagine what you blokes say about other blokes who are virgins!! Merciless!