ASIO, not the government, calling the shots on refugees
So ASIO says that five of the unfortunates from the Oceanic Viking constitute a threat to national security.
What have they done? ASIO won’t say. What’s the evidence against them? It’s secret.
It beggars belief that, in the year 2010, ASIO can still behave like this.
After all, there’s plenty of past examples of ASIO’s handiwork available in the national archives: yellowing files permeated with arbitrary and capricious judgements by unaccountable people. For the most part, the dossiers are like student cookery: anything on hand simply got thrown in.
The historian Richard Hall notes in his account of ASIO during the Cold War, “the main thing ASIO men in the trade union area seemed to want was sexual gossip — who was sleeping with whom.” Thomas Shepherd, a former ASIO agent sent to compile information on figures such as Jennie George and Marcia Langton and the various organisations of which they were members, makes almost exactly the same point: “[ASIO] were particularly interested in personal relationships. They wanted to know about who was getting off with whom, what kind of person everyone was. Were they stable or unstable, were they liars? Anything like that.”
Trivial, malicious tattle-tattle — but, once it got in the file, it stayed there, and impacted on people’s lives for years.
But you don’t need to delve into the distant past for examples.
Not so long ago, ASIO handed down one of its oracular pronouncements in respect of a certain Scott Parkin. Parkin, you will recall, was an affable-seeming peace campaigner, whose previous brush with authority involved dressing as Tony the Tiger and distributing peanut butter sandwiches outside Haliburton’s offices.
On the basis of one of ASIO’s mysterious findings, his visa was cancelled, he was detained in solitary confinement and then deported. The Australian helpfully reported a mysterious source saying that Parkin planned to teach locals how to roll marbles under horses hooves — a claim that subsequently proved entirely untrue.
Because Parkin was American and white and an articulate English-speaker, his case received considerable attention (by contrast, Iraqi refugees Mohammed Sagar and Mohammad Faisal were detained on Nauru for years on the basis of security assessments, with almost no publicity whatsoever), and the ongoing court case has thrown a certain amount of light on ASIO’s methodology.
For instance, at the time, Phillip Ruddock assured the world that politics hadn’t entered the case, nor had the assessment been influenced by a foreign government.
We now know that was — what’s the word? — a lie, and that information from abroad (presumably the United States) did, in fact, shape the determination.
Now, one presumes that the adverse judgement about the Tamil refugees relates, in some way, to the Tamil Tigers. Given the Parkin case, it seems pertinent to wonder what role the Sri Lankan government has played in the current assessment. After all, it’s already been alleged that Sri Lankan officials have been allowed to question Tamils in Indonesia. That would be, mind you, representatives of the same Sri Lankan government leading an army caught on camera systematically shooting prisoners, a government with one of the worst human rights records in the world, and a documented tendency to regard all Tamils as terrorists; indeed, the same government whose persecution has led to the Tamils being officially declared refugees.
It is, of course, possible that the five individuals — even the little kids — are, in fact, exceedingly dangerous people. But in that case, why not make the information available so that the public can make up its own mind?
For that’s the other issue here. Immigration is a contentious political issue in Australia, an ongoing debate in the public sphere. Now, when Wilson Tuckey fantasised about terrorists sneaking themselves into the lucky country via leaky boats, it sounded barking mad. But now, as Joe Hockey gloatingly pointed out, ASIO has essentially made the same point — and, though the agency has provided no more evidence than Tuckey did, suddenly the argument is treated a thousand times more seriously.
How can this be healthy in a democratic country? Should a secret agency be playing such a major role in a political debate, without even making its sources available?
“We’ll decide who comes to this country, and the circumstances under which they’ll come,” said John Howard.
Actually, that’s not true. ASIO will decide — and they won’t tell us why.
>blockquote>Should a secret agency be playing such a major role in a political debate, without even making its sources available?
Er, is that really what you meant to say? Surely ‘making its sources available’ is the one thing a secret agency should not have to do. Some indication of the nature of the risk posed by these individuals (i.e. the information, not the sources) wouldn’t have done any harm though.
And they’re hardly ‘participating in the debate’ or ‘making points’. In fact, you’d hope they’d continue to do the job they’ve been charged with irrespective of current political issues, albeit they could do it in a more accountable fashion.
What a heap of tripe. ASIO does the bidding of the government. It is not the government. It advises the relevant minister who can either take the advice or leave it. You should be debating the responsible politicians, not their servants. I’m sure it must be wonderful on the planet you’re on where all personal information is known by everyone so the mob can all make decisions about you. Do they ever reach a conclusion? Why don’t you post your income tax records here so we can all check the evidence. Or perhaps we should leave the tax office to do its job as ASIO must do.
Quite agree with Captain Col
ASIO should not become ‘a state within a state.’ We do not need another variety of CIA in Australia. They are world known for mistakes and blunders. And very expensive, too.
Mark Duffet
Calling people and their children ‘individuals’ is a kind of Rudduck’s (Yankis) jargon indicating that they are objects rather than humans.
F. The provisions of this Convention shall not apply to any person with
respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that:
(a) he has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against
humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to
make provision in respect of such crimes;
(b) he has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of
refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;
(c) he has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the
United Nations.
This is the legal exclusion article from the refugee convention. It is pretty difficult to argue that the little kids did any of the above but the UNHCR clearly allowed that they are refugees so who are ASIO to decide they have done any of these things later on without a skerrick of evidence?
Of course Paul Maley of the OZ might know because the ignorant clown has been in the Sri Lankan ambassadors pockets for months now bleating about Tigers.
It might interest the pathetic and miserable but the Tigers are not a designated terrorist organisation in Australia.
What bothers me is that Evans disguised this filthy trick as “family reunion” when he knew he was illegally locking up genuine, accepted refugees.
Now we claim that the UNHCR is the body to make these assessments and we accept 6,000 or so people from the UNHCR list every year.
The question now is how many times do these ignorant, kidnapping spooks deny access to Australia after over ruling the UNHCR body we claim we trust?
And Captain Col. why the hell should any country ever trust a mob like ASIO? The US doesn’t even trust the CIA or FBI anymore and they are put under scrutiny like the ASIO thugs never are.
I suspect they found dad was “not fit” or “a risk” so they locked up the innocent mum and kids out of sheer spite.
“Parkin planned to teach locals how to roll marbles under horses hooves”
Did anyone else notice that? Let’s take a wild guess at how you might do that.
Hmm. Maybe you roll the marbles … along the ground … towards the horses’ hooves.
Phew! Got it? Good. Join us next week for lessons in how to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Back in the ‘Cold War’, there is a theory that the communists recruit their agents through sexual relationships, that is why ASIO wants to know so much about ‘who is sleeping with whom’. Clearly, they watched too many James Bonds movies.
Just like Scott Parkin’s case, ASIO relies exclusively on whatever the foreign intelligence agency tells them. In the case of Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers, you must take into account the brutality of the long civil war. We’re dealing with REALLY nasty people who invented the ‘suicide belt’ before Al Qaede even existed. If you’re in ASIO, and you received a report from Sri Lanka that ‘person XXX is a terrorist’, what can you do? The number of ASIO agents in Sri Lanka’s Tamil region is ZERO, and I doubt anyone in ASIO speaks Tamil. With no chance of an objective assessment, the only course of action will be to deport them.
They can’t deport them because they are genuine refugees. They are not allowed to lock them up.
So what are they playing at.
I would like to thank ASIO for making this responsible decision on behalf of Australia despite the misleading coverage of this issue by sections of the left-leaning media. ASIO’s decision is a great relief for the opproximately 100 000 members of the Australia’s Sinhalese community. Tamils with extremist views (such as these 5 induviduals) would pose a danger to all Sinhalese Australians. Earlier this year, as Sri Lanka’s War Against Eelam was coming to a conclusion, pro-Tiger Tamils vented their anger on Sinhalese people and their properties in Australia in mutiple incidents. Similar incidents occured in many countries in the Western hemisphere; one of the most disturbing incidents was in Sydney, where two Sinhalese men were doused in toxic acid and left to die. Police suspect that the attack was carried out by former members of the neo-Marxist rebel group: the Tamil Tigers. Those with links to the Tamil Tigers should not be allowed to come here and take advantage of the Sri Lankan rebel group not being listed as a terrorist organisation in Australia (in fact, Australia is one of the few Western countries where it is not. The Tamil Tiger rebels, or LTTE, are listed as terrorists by the USA, the UK, Canada and the European Union. The neo-Marxist Tamil Tiger rebels carried out scores of terrorist attacks in Sri Lankan cities over the last two decades, killing tens of thousands of Sinhalese civilians.) Canada has deported Canadian Tamil citizens and permanent residents who financially support and/or endorse the Tiger rebels’ cause in public. And yet, I am disappointed to see that some radical left-wingers over here would rather let more of them in than get rid of them.
Sinha, get lost mate. We don’t give a flying fig for your opinions about the jailing of innocent children found to be refugees.
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ShepherdMarilyn is bending the truth. It is Aus government policy that children receive special treatment and, as such, these ‘innocent children’ have been given special accomodation. I do beleive Australia has an obligation to those children and others like them; their future must be considered. One option might be to seperate them from their parents, who are quite obviously Tamil Tiger rebels on the run from the law. These children can be protected from the Tiger rebels’ indoctrination and not end up embracing the barbaric ideology of Marxism, and brought up to appreciate the values of democracy instead. I also wish that to be the destiny of their Tamil brethren, back in the Democratic Republic of Sri Lanka. The parents of those two children, on the other hand, deserve no charity. Much has been made of asylum seekers being returned to Sri Lanka being persecuted. These claims refer to suspected neo-Marxist Tamil Tiger rebels who were detained upon return to Sri Lanka, some of whom were then imprisoned. If these induvisduals are known to be members of the terrorist organisation, why shouldn’t they be jailed for it? If Australia and other Western countries try to protect them, are we not, in essence, perverting the course of law and justice in Sri Lanka and assissting rebels who are fighting that nation - a fellow democratic country? People who assissted and endorse the use of suicide bombings to killed tens of thosands of civilians should be brought before a court of law; regardless of whether they support Jemah Islamiah or the Tamil Tigers; regardless of whether they kill Anglo-Australians or Sri Lankan majority Sinhalese and fellow Lankan minority Muslims.
SINHA_VIEW - How can you say what these people have done, or who they are? Are you an ASIO person? Are you privvy to information the rest of us are denied? Or are you just following a personal agenda? I wasn’t aware names or past history has been publicized or what these people, including the babes are guilty of?
I remember the ASIO thugs several yrs ago, who were castigated by a Judge for allegedly kidnapping ‘suspects’ and subjecting them to interrogation practices etc that were and still are illegal. In my view, they should’ve been charged with kidnapping and illegally denying these peoples’ liberty etc - they weren’t?
What I find amazing is the mixed messages here. If these people(including the babes) have been recognised as needing protection by UNHCR, then who do they need protection from, and why have they been deemed a security threat? To whom? The Sri Lankan govt that has very serious questions to answer re assassinating Tamil people near the end of the ‘war’? Did ASIO get their info from thugs in the govt of Sri Lanka? I guess 20 yrs ago, Nelson Mandela would’ve been denied a visa too, on the say so of the genocidal and corrupt govt of Sth Africa at the time. Perhaps ASIO could’ve interviewed Steve Biko re the facts, but he was probably dead at the time; murdered by the same racist corrupt and genocidal govt!
We still don’t know the truth about the role ASIO played in David Hicks or Mandouh Habib’s treatment. Both these men assert that they recognised australian accents during their interrogation/s. What charges were Howard, Ruddock and Downer charged with when they lied about Mandouh Habib being taken to Egypt for brutal interrogation/s and horrific treatments.
As a person who’s participated in anti-war rallies, pro worker rallies, anti genocidal behaviour of Israel among other things, I’m probably on ASIO’s list too! Oh yes, I’ve mingled with some pretty big wigs in the Union movement too! Wow, what a threat I am! Couldn’t give a stuff! I helped organise anti uranium rallies etc - a real threat me! I recall watching a documentary on the Aarons family, and the dossier compiled by ASIO was similar to what’s described here - more interested in titillating BS and what daddy bought the kids etc. Truly! These bastards have nothing better to do! They’re probably monitoring the comments here too - good! Go ahead, make my day!!!
If I disappear, come and bail me out! Please!
Try as I might Sinha_View I can’t leave your comments out there without a reply. Marilyn is right, get lost! Unlike those on the Tele blogs, we don’t subscribe to your “Neo-Marxist” scare campaign, or the mystical belief that Sri Lanka is a democracy. Is this the same democracy that murders journalists every other week, and spends more on military hardware than education or health? Or the same regime that has willingly murdered tens of thousands of Tamils in their beds? And Ronin8317, the Tamils may well be REALLY NASTY people who invented the suicide belt, but they are no more nasty than the Sri Lankan (read Sinhalese) military. There are always two sides to an argument, and in Sri Lanka’s dirty war, both sides have been guilty of atrocities. As for the refugees, why not let them in, they have risked life and limb to get here, so they sure must want it bad. And I’m betting there are some Sinhalese Lankans already here with blood on their hands, so why should we discriminate against just the Tamils?
ShepardMarilyn,
dont bother arguing with Sinha_View, his obviously a pro Sri Lankan Governmnt member of the Sinhalese majority (hence the “Sinha” in view) who couldn’t given a damn about the insignificant lives of Tamil children he most likely deems as cockroaches or baby terrorists.
Sinha_view, get off your goddam political high horse and look at this from a humanistic point of view, you have won your war mate, you have silenenced every voice that dares to use their democratic right and speak out against injustice in your country by blowing the crap out of them, or in the case of journalists, stabbing, shooting, kidnapping or locking them up. Neo-marxist tamil tigers? You seen the ultra-nationalist monks “buddhist” monks running around screaming obscenities and supporting military campaigns that have resulted in thousands of deaths?
“Democratic Republic of Sri Lanka” HA! my bloody foot mate! If your so afraid of the dangers faced by the “Sinhalese Australian” population, think of it as karma mate, do what you forced these refugees to do, find a boat, get on it, risk life and limb, you might end up in New Zealand.. if the sheep don’t eat you.
The question should be whether the five Tamil mentioned are genuine refugee or members of LTTE. Remember the acid attack last year by pro-LTTE at a home on two Sinhalese youth last year in May? I walk past that house everyday on my way to work. Witnessing the aftermath of the violence first hand gives you a more realistic view of the situation. The LTTE are not people whom we would want in our community. The Sri Lankan military has committed various atrocities, but they’re not the one who are applying to live in Australia.
What a piss poor excuse for an informed article and intelligent debate.
I have to say Jeff I didn’t even make it all the way through that “article”, the notion that ASIO is somehow acting as a for of defacto government is just laughable. Then there are the multiple half truths and the ever present flawed logic; I wasn’t sure whether to roll my eyes or have a giggle, but I am positive that reading such clap trap is 100% certain to lower ones IQ.
Lets remember people that ASIO is a government body that we as a society created to manage threats to said society posed by individuals or organizations, may they be working for foreign states or non state actors. Part of that job we have given this government body is to prevent foreign nationals who pose a threat to us as a society from being allowed to enter or permanently reside within our borders. This is in fact what ASIO has done. I think any reasonable person would agree that this function is vital to any nation’s security.
Given that premise I’m struggling to see what the problem is here? Are we upset because there is a government department that does security checks on potential migrants or that we cant see what their findings are? The very notion that a modern intelligence organization should make its source material public in real time is just utterly ridiculous. Overnight ASIO would be hopelessly compromised as a viable intelligence service. Why on earth would we bother having organizations who’s reason for being is to gather and analyse information if we are going to fundamentally jeopardize its ability to do so? There may be a case for increased parliamentary scrutiny of our intelligence agencies, but the very nature of intelligence work means that you simply can not air such things in public in near real time.
If you are claiming that ASIO have it wrong then maybe you’re right. But if the only evidence you have for ASIO being incorrect in its security assessment of these individuals is a few misleading anecdotes from the cold war or some horror stories detailing the appalling fact that Australian intelligence organizations actually share information with our allies then I think you have less than a leg to stand on. Realistically that would be a baseless accusation rather than a piece of journalism, but such is the rule rather than the exception in the blogosphere.
The other massive logical flaw in your argument was raised earlier by Captain Col; ASIO, just like any other government department simply advises the relevant minister on the best of its abilities. The politician makes the decision, not ASIO. Do we call treasury a “state within a state” for advising the government on its response to the GFC? The very notion is ridiculous and so is the above.
Now as for the predictably emotive “save the children” line, what would you Jeff (and the other posters) have ASIO and the department of immigration do? Not treat this group as a family and respond to each case individually? It is unlikely that the children pose a security threat, but should they be given permanent residency without their parents? Maybe we can find them a nice foster home?
As for the “debate”; its just absolutely smashing to see a discussion on the function of Australia’s intelligence organization’s and the validity of discussing real time source information in public has turned into a tit for tat purely emotive pissing contest on whether the Tamil Tigers or Sri Lankan government are morally superior. That was always going to be a cool, rational and mature discussion where posters would never tell each other to “go away” simply because their opinion is different was it?
Come on people, lift your game!!!
I for one am glad the security services were so dogged in the surveillance of Communists during the Cold War. It is only because we thoroughly trounced the evil Left that they can disdain the security services. But the truth is the other way round. It was monitoring these unAustralian Soviet and Chinese casual agents that helped us to defeat them. Suck it up Sparrow and your rump of still Commie mates.
Skepticus Autartikus - I tell you what. I believe that it’s possible to go to Canberra and request to see your file. When I do that and get a copy of what’s been kept on me, I’ll let everyone know. It’s laughable to think, that our tax dollars are going to this lot who have nothing better to do but observe citizens engaging in their democratic right to protest. Look at what happened during APEC in Sydney, and how The Chasers made a bloody laughing stock of the lot of them. Then there’s the bloke who was only crossing the road to buy his son a sandwich, tackled to the ground, had his glasses broken in front of his child, and then they held him for how many hours????What a load of bullshit. At the same time a bloke is still chasing these bastards for justice, over him telling the rest of us, that security at our major/minor airports was a joke! The question needs to be asked, and answered honestly. Are these jokers intent on creating their own little silent, secret and hush hush world of crap, or are they really keen on the security of the country?
Why did Howard cut back on air servaillance; has it been rectified, and what about security at our ports, particularly major ones like Port Kembla, which is the major receiving area for cars? How do we know that security has been improved there? We don’t! If these idiots were really keen about protecting us, they’d be concentrating on keeping drugs and guns out, not locking up babies!
The question still remains unanswered. How can people be deemed ‘fair dinkum’ asylum seekers by the UNHCR, but be deemed ‘security risks’ by ASIO? Simple question isn’t it? Why aren’t we entitled to the answer? We should be told the reasons why the babies/toddlers are to be kept perhaps in permanent detention; what their parents did, to whom, when etc?
In recent times, with the evidence available re David Hicks, Mandouh Habib, Dr Haneef etc, none of the main players in security matters are without grievous errors of judgement and justice. Why should I accept what they say? I don’t, and questioning them should be a right, not an automatic reason to be put under surveilance or demeaned as a ‘left’ anything. Are ‘left’ people the only ones who query our democracy?
An indictment on the others surely!
UPDATE: “The government I lead is one where Australia makes decisions on who it issues visas to or not,” he told reporters on Friday, in a comment echoing former prime minister John Howard’s famous statement that “we will decide” who enters Australia
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/we-decide-who-gets-a-visa-rudd-20090821-esx2.html
The Australian LABOR Government won the last election and currently are in charge of Australian immigration policy.
And I for one am happy with the job ASIO are doing. As yet no major bombings or political/religious murders have taken place on our soil. They must be doing their job.
I am a Sri Lankan expat of Tamil background and, I must say, I am deeply disturbed by some of the comments made here. I understand that many people who read this blog are of the left-wing presuation, but those that are not should not be savaged just because we disagree with their views. If a person of conservative opinion were to make aggressive comments about a minority community, many sections of the media would be all over it. And yet, ‘IMMORTALWIND’ effectively says that all Sinhalese Australians can pack up and leave Australia, because they are politically inconvenient. How can a person brought up in a country of tolerance like Australia say such a thing? It’s all well and good to chastice the political right on racism when it is politically expedient for the left, but how the left behaves themselves better reflects their true colours. IMMORTALWIND is basically saying that Australia should cultivate a left-wing opinion in minority communities by only allowing politically favourable people in. This is highly immoral, not to mention highly irresponsible. Migration should be based on what people can contribute to Australia’s economy; all refugees ever do is soak up wellfare money and add to the crime rate. This is not good for Australia and it’s not good for the reputation and respectability of the community concerned. Many Australian Tamils I associate with are ashamed of their community leaders and the state of their community, and want it to be more like other Asian expatriat communities in Australia. Many Australian Tamils feel this way, but are silenced by their community leadership, with the assisstance of other groups, in interests of creating a Tamil homeland in northern Sri Lanka (this is despute the fact that most of us Tamils would not want a Tamil homeland run by the Tigers as they are not democratic). The end of the Tamil Tigers fills me with hope that we Tamils can now enjoy Autralia’s wonderful democracy in the same way our fellow Australian citizens can.
Haha, Rebel Warrior
It appears the concept of sarcasm is foreign to you. I commend you though for being the only one stupid enough to misinterpret my comment.
More baffling then your inability to grasp fundamental messages is this:
“all refugees ever do is soak up wellfare money and add to the crime rate”.
Now being an anglo saxon/Caucasian with the fortune of not having to flee a war torn country, I am absolutely baffled by this comment. You say your a Tamil from Sri Lanka, many of whom are being held in detention facilities in other countries under the refugee banner. So if circumstances were not so kind to you, and you were forced to flee your country, wouldn’t that inevitably make you a refugee “soak up wellfare money and add to the crime rate”?. The only thing that separates you from them would be a plane ticket and a passport?
Stop ranting on with your agenda of slagging the tamil tigers, of tamil groups being muffled here, of wanting to be like other expatriate communities and so on, NO ONE CARES, that isnt the ISSUE MATE!!! STICK TO THEM!!! Your 20 line diatribe accounts to nothing, with no relevance to ANYTHING mentioned by anyone.
Back to the topic, if these men, woman and kids are LTTE members, then hooray to ASIO, confirm it. LIke Tigerchelle said, our lucky country has so far been one of the only western nations untouched by major bombings or political assassinations (the latter wouldn’t have been such a bad thing for Howard, but I digress), thanks, in part to ASIO, and to the general cohesion between ethnic communities in Australia. It should not be a problem then, for ASIO to reveal their information. Why it fails to do so is beyond me, given the pressure being applied by all sectors.
I am agitated by the thought that ASIO now dictates this nations policies on all things green and gold, at the same time, I am just as wary of politicians and government departments quitely hoping that the criticism of ASIO continues so they can continue to make their absurd policies and find a whipping boy to do so.
You ranted
The point is
Did you bother to read
In response to IMMORTALWIND, the reason why I am so critical of refugee migration is because most people who come to Australia as refugees are not genuine. I fully agree that innocent people in danger in their home country should be allowed refugee status. It should be as general as whenever “circumstances are not so kind to you”. It should only be when that person’s life is at risk. But while genuine Tamil refugees in Sri Lanka are held captive in government ‘security screening centres’, people associated with the rebels are able to use their contacts to get on a boat to Australia or Canada. However, I do know some genuine Tamil refugees whomanaged to escape. They are good people, and certainly would not “add to the crime rate”. Only Tiger-supporting former Sri Lankan gangsters do that. Although crime is not such a big problem here at the moment, the Canadian Tamil community is an example of what the Australian community could come to. This has got some of us a bit worried.
Almost all Tamil refugees over the last 25 years have come with the Tigers’ help. Tigers fear genuine refugees’s stories of horror reaching the West just as much as the government do, since their are partly responsible for them. The so-called ‘refugees’ have enabled the Tigers to effectively take over the Tamil communities here and elsewhere in the West.
In addition to not having come here on a boat, but a plane, I did not come as a refugee. I came to this country as a skilled migrant, and do not subscribe to the Tigers cause in any way. If skilled migration accounted for the bulk of the Tamil community, then things would be very different. I support Tamil Eelam, but not the Tigers’ one. Most Tamil people feel this way in secret. Tamil Eelam should be a democracy.
Tamil people here have been intimidated with threats of harm to relatives in Sri Lanka by the Tigers if people speak or act in public in a way that the Tigers do not approve. Despite living in democratic countries in the West, we ordinary Tamil citizens have been silenced. I desire nothing more than for our people in the West to be able to live without fear of either the Lankan government or the Tigers. The end of the Tigers provides a chance for this to happen. We cannot possibly do this if more Tigers enforcements are on the way. Our oppresion may yet continue. I cannot bear the thought…
It should NOT be as general as whenever “circumstances are not so kind to you”.
rebel_warrior - You are wrong about those who are granted refugee status in this country, both in their assertions of being “genuine” or their claims on welfare etc. Those who are granted permanent residency status, many going on to become citizens of the country, and damn fine ones too, the investigations into your ‘genuiness’ claim is wrong. In the report “A Last Resort” which investigated the detention of children and how it affects them, the assertion was made, ‘that 92% of Iranian children, and 98% of those from Iraq were in need of protection’ - one would assume, that their parents were also.
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The only real australians are aboriginal people - the rest of us arrived by boat or plane or whatever, or our ancestors did. In fact, 25% of Australians were born overseas, and in NSW I believe it’s 40% - many came as asylum seekers, including some of my extended family members.
Why is it only the ‘left’ who raise issues of justice and a ‘fair go’? If you’re against these people, what the hell are you doing here? Oh, I see, you’re different? Sadly, the Australian govt of many types have supported oppressive regimes, and I’m ashamed to admit, even taken part in the demise of those seeking justice and equality from the despots - the US has invaded or interfered with over 45 countries since the end of WW2, and we’ve either assisted or remained silent, slavishly following this horror! We can now add Iraq, Burma, Afghanistan, East Timor and our silence was deafening while thousands were murdered in Latin America. We’ve also slavishly adopted the US views on who terrorists are etc. We provide weapons, education etc to Sri Lanka and Burma, while we bullshit about the violence that takes place. It’s sickening!
I write in response to LIZ’s post above. LIZ, I don’t know if you read my last blog in it’s entirity, but in it I mention that I support granting refugee status to people who need it, especially those in my homeland, Sri Lanka.
You quote statistics from a report you have read. If “in need of protection” means that those Iraqi and Irani childrens’ lives would have been at risk if returned to their home country, then I am very happy that we let them stay. If “in need of protection” merely refers to harsh living standards and the like, then, unfortunate as it may seem for those children, that is not the purpose of granting refugee status. Every time such a person is granted refugee status, a genuine refugee (whose life is at risk - like someone held captive by Sri Lanka’s government) either misses out or has to wait longer (and may be killed in their homeland in the meantime).
I notice you have no quotes on Sri Lanka. I’m not surprised. I stand by all of my comments above: about how Sri Lanka’s Tigers have rorted the refugee migration system to get their operatives into the West, and to ensure unfavourable stories of Tamil persecution are kept away from Western shores; about how the Tiger operatives have taken over every Tamil community in the Western hemisphere, and have silenced anyone (such as me) who does not subscribe to their narrow view of a Tamil homeland.
We good and honest Tamils, your fellow citizens no less, who are being prevented from enjoying the democratic priviledges of free speech and political opinion as everyone else does, by those within our own community. How about ‘a fair go’ for some of your fellow Australian citizens?
Wow! How naive you lefties are! You can’t be serious, LIZ45! You can talk about children refugees all you want, but most people who hop on a boat are gangsters and rebels. Take my mob from Sri Lanka, for example. All the left-wing medias ovr here are focusing on the handful of kiddies on board and getting them to give speeches on the evening news for whip up public sympathy. All this to help the vile, pro-Tiger Tamils into the country, avoid charges of terrorist activity from the legal system of the unfairly tarnished democracy, Sri Lanka, and so that they are free to throw acid over and set alight as many ‘bastard Sinhalese’ as they want (because that’s what they think of us, and that’s what those of their kind already here have done to members of the Australian Sinhalese community in the past).
And another thing: how dare you associate Sri Lanka military-run failed states like Burma and others in South America! How about doing some research on Sri Lanka instead of relying on your far-left-leaning Tamil peers? Sri Lanka is one of the strongest democratic countries in Asia. Sri Lanka has held free and fair elections for 61 years, and the political will of the voting public has never been challenged by a national leader or ruling party. Not bad for a tiny little third world country, heh? Sure, the system is yet to be perfected and minority groups like Tamils and Muslims have got a rough deal sometimes. But then again, what is the record of equality like in Australia? Did you know Indigenous Australians did not have a vote until 1960? What was life like for Italians and Greeks (‘new Australians’) back then? But wasn’t it good that we did not get rid of democracy, but improved the system instead? While others in the region such as Pakistan and Bangladesh have suffered interruptions to democracy such as military coups, Sri Lanka’s democracy has stood strong. It’s democratic institutions have survived the threat of Marxist rebellion in the form of the Tamil Tigers and Sinhalese groups of that nature. Sri Lanka’s political record is really quite acceptable - remember Sri Lankans had not enjoyed self-rule for centuries prior to 1948 due to Colonialism - provided that it continues to improve it’s credentials.
Further on LIZ’s left-wing rant (above). Aboriginals are the first Australians, heh? This is a favourite comment among you lefties, isn’t it? You know, makes you feel clever and everything? It appears LIZ needs to do some research on the history of Australia as well?
Question: What is the definition of an Australian?
Answer: A citizen of the Commonwealth of Australia.
Question: When did Australia come into existence?
Answer: January 1, 1901.
So there you are, that should clear it up for you lot. Indiginous people are no more Australian than anyone else. Indiginous peoples’ ancestors lived on this land for tens of thousands of years, but that was not Australia. Their ancestors lived in their own tribal nations. There were scores of them across the continent. The fact it was immoral for their lands to have been taken from them does not change this fact. The Australian nationality has only existed for as long as this continent has been under one flag.
Perhaps you people need to learn to show some respect to your own country before we can expect you to do as much of other countries.
Sinha_view:
“Sri Lanka is one of the strongest democratic countries in Asia.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
A Government that kills thousands upon thousands of its own people with bombs and bullets, kills journalists who dare to speak against it, locks up refugees in concentration camps (according to human rights groups) is NOT a democracy mate.
Your “unfairly tarnished democracy” is a cauldron of blood, hate and hypocrisy. Furthermore, you took a conversation about the legitimacy of ASIO and turned it into a pro-government anti tamil platform, and THEN you have the audacity to talk about DEMOCRACY??
AND REBEL WARRIOR??? When the hell did this thread become about your community in Australia whose voices have been silenced by the Tigers? is that what this debate was about?
LIZ45: We provide weapons, education etc to Sri Lanka and Burma, while we bullshit about the violence that takes place. It’s sickening!
AMEN.
Im anglo-saxon, ive been exposed to opinions from both communities and it BAFFLES me how the world has sat back and done nothing, while a fascist government backed by monks who proclaim to be disciples of Buddha, yet clearly refer to Mein Kampf for inspiration.
I do agree with you on one thing Sinha_View, LIZ45 had NO RIGHT to compare Sri Lanka to Burma. The Burmese people are inherently beautifal good willed people being crushed by tyrants in power. I think comparisons with Nazi Germany are more apt, a nation of people swept up by nationalist sentiments and willing to support anyone that will crush the opposition, no matter how big the human cost.
PATHETIC.
IMMORTALWIND: “When the hell did this thread become about your community in Australia whose voices have been silenced by the Tigers? is that what this debate was about?”
Yes, IMMORTALWIND, that is exactly what this is be about. Our Australian Tamil community, just like all Western Tamil communities, have been taken over and silenced by Tiger agents masquerading as refugees. Perhaps the only ethinc minority in the Western hemisphere that does not enjoy freedom and democracy are Western Tamils. Just when we thought there was a prspect for us to enjoy greater freedom, we learn that the Tigers have sent more enforcements to try and continue their rule over the Tamil world. IMMORTALWIND, I’m a fellow Australian; those 5 five detained by ASIO are forreigners. Whose rights are more important to you? Whose rights should Australia see and more important? This is an issue of morality.
I find the views of most people on this blog to be misguided. Australia and other Western countries should be working to ensure that genuine refugees in Sri Lanka are able to apply for refugee status. And there certainly are very many genuine Tamil refugees in Sri Lanka. But none of them will ever manage to get on a boat to Australia or anywhere else in the West; they either can’t afford it, or get caught in the security nets of the Sri Lankan government or the Tigers while trying to escape.
Allowing Tiger agents in Australia is not good for anyone SINHA, but you are exaggerating if you suggest that most of the Australian Tamil community are hostile towards Sinhalese people. The Sydney acid attack is the only violent attack by a Tamil on a member of the Sinhalese community in Australia. The Australian Tamil community condemned the attack and have assissted police with finding the culprits.
To call SINHA’s lavish praise of Sri Lanka’s democratic history ‘generous’ would be a gross understatement. Frankly, it is insult to injury for all minority peoples in that country. Since independance, Sri Lanka has maintained a democracy of sorts, but this has been mainly for the Sinhalese. Tamils have benefitted very little from it, and suffered quite a lot; foreigners in our own native country. Meanwhile, the Muslims have recieved only mixed results from their decades of loyalty to the Sinhalese democracy. It’s just not worth it. This is why Lankan Tamils want a seperate nation.
Many Tamil people in Sri Lanka and India helped create a movement to create a Tamil homeland in Sri Lanka. For a while, things were going well and Tamil people were very proud of the Tigers, whose success even attracted Western supporters. But, somehow, the Tigers lost sight of the Tamil Eelam dream. We wanted a democracy, like the Sinhalese had, for ourselves. But the Tigers were not interested in that now. They just listened to people in other countries who now bankrolled the movement, who wanted them to create a non-democratic state. This meant no elections and no elected officials in a future Tiger-run state. The Tigers could create a Tamil-only state, but not the one we wanted. All we ever wanted was freedom and opportunity; none would have been forthcoming from the Tigers. I am not sad to see the end of them.
Most of us Tamils are just tired of all this BS. No one wants to help us, only to use us. That we were swindled by our own Tamil leaders is what hurts most. Leadership. We are, as ever, desperate for leadership. That’s what we need. That’s what we have always lacked…
Hey, stop it! The fact is, that the report that I read and referred to insisted quite plainly, that those children from Iraq and Iran were in need of PROTECTION! If you weren’t so tired up in your own personal agendas, and availed yourselves of the real situation in this country re Iraq, Afghanistan etc, then you wouldn’t carry on like you are. If you don’t like it here, then f**k off back to Sri Lanka. If the govt is so great there, and life is so good there, why the f did you leave?
The facts about aboriginal people is, that the British Parliament even acknowledged, that aboriginal people never gave up their land; they never relinquished their rights to BE, and what happened after the invasion was a murderous travesty; genocide against the original inhabitants. Now you can rant and rave about the white man’s constitution of 1901 in this land, but it won’t change the reality at all. You can do all you like, but the truth always remains the truth. We are the invaders, and too many injustices were and still are being perpetrated against those who had first claim here - at least 60-80,000 yrs ago - they didn’t need a bloody piece of paper, they know the truth! And so do I!
And also, the rubbish and bullshit about Iraq and Afghanistan will never change the truth, that they weren’t a threat to the US or their neighbours, and certainly not Australia, and the invasion of both countries is a war crime. Many crimes after the invasion, and to this day, are against the Geneva Conventions and many other International Laws.
If you don’t like it here, then f**k off back to Sri Lanka or wherever, and take your genocidal attitudes with you! You’re also paradeing your ignorance around like a huge cloak about the peoples of Latin America and other countries, that with our appeasing attitude allowed hundreds of thousands of innocents to be butchered. You can live with that without being angry, OK, but I can not!
If you want a good leader of the Tamils, f**k off home and become one!
I’d have more sympathy with both of you, if you didn’t have such a revolting attitude to others who have a genuine need of protection - particularly the children. The “A Last Report” stated very clearly of the sometimes irreversible damage done to kids if they’re locked up and treated as criminals or non-people. If you can’t empathize with the suffering of others from other countries, then just go away! I’m not interested in your heartless judgemental attitudes, of which you’ve not provided any proof!
sinha_view - “Did you know Indigenous Australians did not have a vote until 1960?”
Wrong again! Aboriginal people did vote prior to 1960, in STATE elections. Prior to the Referendum in 1967 aboriginal people were not included in the Constitution - only as flora or fauna. In fact, even the 1967 Referendum(of which I voted in, and voted “YES”) didn’t remove the racist aspects of the Constitution - and it’s still there!
Did you know, that even though aboriginal people had no rights federally, they still fought in all the wars that the national govt committed to? Even though they were only allowed in pubs on Anzac Day, they stood beside soldiers from the rest of the community and gave their lives or were badly injured. Unlike the wives of ‘white’ soldiers, the wives of aboriginal soldiers were not paid their husband’s married allowance? They could not fit on clothes in stores, and had to rely on supportive ‘lefties’ to do that for them.
A white parent only had to complain about an aboriginal child attending the same school as their child, and that was enough to have that aboriginal child/children removed? Pregnant aboriginal women weren’t allowed in the same area to have pre-natal care as white women, nor were they in the same area to give birth. Aboriginal kids with serious illnesses like epilepsy were denied an education. I could contine! If you’d like to find out the real truth about aboriginal rights/lives/struggles etc in this country, you might like to join your public library. Watch ‘First Australians’ on the net; read ‘Demons at Dusk’ about the massacre at Myall Creek, by Peter Stewart, and perhaps look at ‘Mabo’ and other issues of the last 40 yrs! ‘Black Deaths in Custody’ ‘Bringing them Home Report’ etc - all available on the web!
Stir up your brain cells. Find the truth!
LIZ, don’t tell me to get out of Australia, you smart-arsed leftie! If you left-wing f***ers had your way, the only migrants to this country would come on boats and support your left-wing ideals. You people think that the only use for migration is to cultivate a left-wing political opinion in the minority communities here, so you want those that are politically inconvenient to the political left, like the Sinhalese, to leave. The whole point of migration is to import skills and knowledge from other countries (that’s how my parents, like most Sinhalese and unlike most Tamils, came to this country); this should account for the vast majority of migrants. Refugee migration is the exact opposite: an act of chairty, and should be restricted to only people whose lives are at risk in their home country; no economic refugees, no Tiger rebel BS artists on the run from the Sri Lankan law.
If you don’t agree with any of the above, then you don’t care about Australia’s national interests. I might be a Sri Lankan ethnic Sinhalese person, but I was raised Australian. I’m an Australian Sinhalese. There are about 100 000 of us (which is acutally more than the Aus Tamil community; you might not think that, judging by the left-wing media coverage over here). We, like most Asiatic Australian communities, are a knowledge-based community that contributes to Australia to reap rewards (unlike refugee-based communities). I don’t need some f***ing leftist telling me to leave. I don’t care what you think; you either don’t know or don’t care about what’s best for Australia. I’m more Australian than any of your leftist traitors of Australia will ever be. Your the ones that should piss off, in the interests of Australia.
LIZ, Australia is hostorically the most racist Anglo-Saxon country in the world; the last such nation to take to multi-culturalism. I have heard stories of how shitty life was for minority people back in your time in Australia (for Italians, Greeks, etc): people being assualted and raped while the police just looked the other way. These are stories that I myelf cound not begin to imagine experiencing, knowing only the Australia of more recent times. Australia is the last of the majority Anglo countries that should be teaching others about racial tolerence, since it still lags well behind the UK, US, Canada and New Zealand on this issue. Further, this should give you a better appreciation than others about how a functioning democracy can dramatically change the racial tolerance issue with the right national leadership, and within a couple of generations. Why shoudn’t Sri Lanka have the same opportunity? Cohension among ethnic groups in Sri Lanka has gradually improved over the last two decades.
It doesn’t matter what you think, anyway. Only about 30-35% of Australians are left-wing. Australia aknowledges that Sri Lanka is a multi-cultural democracy. All Western countries do. [edit]
LIZ, [edit] why don’t know stop trashing Sri Lanka’s image by comparing it to non-democratic failed states like Burma (which is actually more similar to the Tiger rebels’ failed state of Tamil Eelam) and give Sri Lanka ‘a fair go’? Well, then again, I suppose ‘a fair go’ was only for Anglo people back in your time, heh? And all non-white peoples were just pawns for extending your left-wing political agendas? [edit]
sinha_view [edit]
As to the name of the country and aboriginal people. If we invaded Iraq, changed its name and constitution(which Paul Bremmer did in Iraq before he left - changed their constitution, not the name) and called it ‘Brownland’, would that make the Iraqis presently living there non citizens? Of course not. [edit] Aboriginal people were living on this land, with 250 languages spread across the country for at least 60-80,000 yrs prior to white invasion. Murdering those who were already here, poisoning the water, raping the woman and killing their babies doesn’t change those facts. [edit]
While you and I argue, we’re playing right into the hands of those who benefit from the ‘divide and rule’ activities. If we want to stop people from other lands, including from Sri Lanka, Iraq etc, then we should stop murdering their country men and women, or stop supporting those who are oppressing them. When it comes to Australia, we support both Burma and Sri Lanka - I did not equate one with the other, only the role successive Aust govts have played in both countries. Go back and read what I said!
When it comes to colour; the revolting racists won’t treat you any better than any other group if your skin is black - just remember that. I’m a no-good ‘leftie’ who’d offer you a hand in friendship if you were being treated badly by a govt or racists. Strange how right wingers think murdering people in their own country is OK - like Iraq and Afghanistan!
FACT: every nation and race of people in existence today have committed war crimes, crimes against humanity at some point in their history.
None of us can deny it. We are all decendants of people with blood on their hands, and live in countries that were drenched in the blood of defeated peoples before the foundation of a new nation, like the one in which we live, was layed down. Instead of denying it or being ashamed of it, we should just accept it as reality and vow never to repeat those actions of our predecessors. Is that not what the United Nations and NATO are all about?
We should merely resolve to improve the quality of life of Indigenous Australians to a point where no such discrepancy exists between the Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples, which the Rudd-ALP government is endeavouring to achieve. Then, there would be no reason for some Anglo-Australians to feel guilty about past wrongs and we won’t need to accomodate for that by pretending that Aboriginals united the continent. We can both appreciate the Indigenous peoples’ ancestors’ cultures and, at the same time, acknowledge that they lived in different nation, not Australia.
sinha_view - If you go into another country and you murder the occupants; hang up a bloody flag with rhubarb or split peas on it, and call it Utopia or Australia, it doesn’t make it yours by right! The British invaders had no right to claim this land and its peoples - for one damned good reason - it wasn’t theirs ! They stole it! Like they’ve invaded, raped, pillaged other countries before and after this one! Like India! Same with the US - El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, Argentina, Guam, Guatemala and so on!Almost 50 countries have either been interfered with or invaded by the US since the end of WW2! Empire builders, just like Britain!
If I steal your money, put it in my bank account under my name, it’s still your money? I can exchange it for american currency, or Indonesian, and call it pesas or pizza, it matters not - I’m still using YOUR money that I STOLE! The same happened in this country - this country was stolen from the original owners. In fact, if you educated yourself like historian Henry Reynolds has done, you’ll find, that the British Parliament never assumed that aboriginal people handed over the country - they never have, and never will! Nowhere is it written in Britain, that this country was uninhabited or the occupiers acquiesed weakly! Didn’t happen, in fact they fought like bloody mad - with weapons far inferior to that of the invaders!
So, you can rant on all you like - it won’t change a thing, not a thing. This country as we know it now, was raped by invaders, who murdered those who lived here, and went on killing during a 100 yr ‘war’ that resulted in another 20,000 at least being murdered. These wonderful people, who are the custodians of the world’s oldest known culture! Imagine what we could learn if we just ‘lowered ourselves’ to ask?
The Rudd govt is continuing the racist, oppressive, patronising, paternalistic actions of the Howard govt. A recent report of the United Nations states, that the life expectancy gap between aboriginal people and the rest of the community is now 20 YEARS - that’s worse than the figures used by the Rudd govt - go and research that!(their figure is 17?)
The Racial Discrimination Act was removed in order for them to do it! Our Constitution clearly states, that govts can use such racist practices for racist reasons - against any “inferior races” - so, watch it, you could be next?????????As could I, even though I’m a fair skinned woman!
My ancestors were Irish, and none of them killed aboriginal people. However, those who live or lived here, and took advantage of the oppression of the aboriginal people for their own material gain, are no better than the original invaders - I’m not one of them! I feel ashamed, that the horrors metered out to these gentle, intelligent and strong human beings happened in my lifetime - but I’ll tell you something, I’ll maintain my rage against racism while ever I breathe, and will rise up against the injustices and cruelty of any govt in this country - or individuals for that matter.
I’m more than happy to share this country with you and your family, as long as, with our protection, you don’t become just another abuser or appeaser of these injustices. I’m more than happy for Iraqis, Afghanis, Tamils and others to seek and receive shelter from possible torture or death in this country, but don’t you dare deny others the succour that you enjoy here! You have no damned right to do that! I’m against locking up babies, toddlers, pregnant women, old people and men too - such actions are not the actions of a civilized people, whose govt boasts of a ‘fair go’!
Aboriginal people did live in Australia - they didn’t do the name change. The areas where their ancestors lived, like Uluru and many many others were here, part of the same soil as the country we know as Australia - but don’t tell me that it’s a different one, because that’s a lie - an absolute lie! How convenient for us to deny this fact? Still doesn’t change a damned thing!
I’ve never compared Burma to Sri Lanka. What I did say, was this govt provides information/assistance (to the police or govt, or both?) and money to both these govts - both of whom persecute their citizens! That’s what I said, go and read it again!
PS. In fact, if you investigate ‘Mabo’ you’ll find, that the Federal govt fought Eddie Mabo in his struggle to prove, that the people of his ancestors did not hand over their land; that there were human beings living on his peoples’ land at the time of white settlement. He disproved what successive govts racially asserted - that this was not a barren land without peoples going about their business, living their lives, protecting the land, practicising their culture, as their forbears did for centuries past. Eddie Mabo won - even though, sadly he died before the Court’s judgement.
So, this land was not barren; was not ‘handed over’ was never relinquished, and those who lived here had every right to validly claim it as theirs.
You latch onto the lie about January 1 1901, and all you do is show your profound ignorance, to the detriment of the original habitants and nurterers of this land, and their immense history and love and care for this country.
I don’t feel intimidated or ‘robbed’ by acknowledging the reality - in fact, I love its simplicity and the history. It’s only when you feel inferior within yourself, that you have to deny the reality of others. The reality of this country and white settlement will always remain thus - regardless of what you or others want to change, for your own insecure reasons, or your own agenda.
The truth will set you free, someone once said! I agree!
LIZ, your comparison of stolen money to the colonization of Australia is inaccurate. An accurate comparison would be that some money was stolen from me by you in 1778, but there were no law enforcers to protect me or stop you getting away. Now, is there anything that our decendants in the year 2009 can do to change the fact that you stole my money 1778?
The moral of the story is that we cannot change history. Your comparison would apply if the United Nations were around in 1778. Then, the British colonization of Australia would have been prevented, and history would have taken a different course. But, the fact is that it did happen and that was 231 years ago. Those who opressed and those who were opressed are not around, only their decendants are. Each generation inherits it’s circumstances from previous one. We can control only what our generation and future generations can do. We cannot undo things. I beleive it is important to accept that. Only then can we improve the circumstances we find ourselves in.
LIZ: “The Racial Discrimination Act was removed in order for them to do it! Our Constitution clearly states, that govts can use such racist practices for racist reasons - against any “inferior races” - so, watch it, you could be next?????????As could I, even though I’m a fair skinned woman!”
LIZ, the Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is also of Irish/convict decent, is he not? Do you think he views himself as inferior? Is he going to opress himself, is he? Don’t be ridiculous! There are bound to be cases of legislation passed by Australian parliaments, as with all parliaments, in years gone by not having been removed. Legislation similar to the one you refer to existing does not surprise me. As I said in an earlier post, Australia did not become anti-racism until fairly recently in it’s history. You will just have to accept that not all migrants will be useful to your left-wing agendas. I’m not naive enough to be draw in by this nonsense. It’s all just anti-establishment propaganda typical of the radical left.
Let me go over this again: Aboriginies did not unite the continent. They did not create Australia. The nations they lived in, on this lands that now collectively make up this nation, no longer exist, and Indigenous people have been accepted into the new nation, the Commonwealth of Australia. Those are the circumstances that your generation inherited. If you feel that your generation should have done a better job of incorporating Indigenous people into Australia, then I certainly agree. They should be judged on that, since it happened it their time, not in times before them. I beleive that should be a political goal for my generation. The Rudd-ALP government has commenced that process, though obviously 3 years is not enough time to make any visible progress on health, education standards, etc among Indigenous people. Some argue that it is because of the long time frame required that Rudd champions this cause: because it is popular and yet he does not have to be accountable for any policy failures on the issue. Be that as it may, PM Rudd has commenced the process, and the next generation will be judged on it’s commitment to make sure it succeeds. Now, isn’t that much better than trying to rewriting the cold, hard reality of history - actually doing something to about the adverse impact of the past on the present in order to create a more just future, instead of just hating ourselves for the past?
Similar reasoning can be applied to why Australia’s government chooses to help Sri Lanka at this crucial time in it’s history. A group of ethnic Tamil rebels, frustrated by the inequality and lack of opportunity forthcoming from corrupt and neglectful governments, took up arms and occupied a large area of Sri Lankan territory for about three decades, until they were overrun by the Sri Lankan government’s armed forces, which was justified in protecting it’s terrtorial integrity. That is history. Now Australia can use aid as an incentive for Colombo to incorporate those people previously in the failed state of Tamil Eelam into Sri Lanka, to make them equals in a multi-cultural democracy. These people were victims of the Tamil Tigers’ ruthless 27-year Marxist-style rule. I’m sure you would be aware that there has been a steady trickle of Tamil refugees out of “Tamil Eelam” (actually northern Sri Lanka) for decades. Using incentives to guide Sri Lankan governance along in the right direction is the surest way to ensure that future generations of Tamils do not suffer and become refugees, but prosper by contributing to a country that is taking strides towards becoming a developed country for the first time in it’s 61-year history, in an unprecedented time of political and social stability. That is an aspiration that Colombo and Canberra have in common, as it is beneficial to both.
sinha_view - “LIZ, the Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is also of Irish/convict decent, is he not? Do you think he views himself as inferior? Is he going to opress himself, is he? Don’t be ridiculous! There are bound to be cases of legislation passed by Australian parliaments, as with all parliaments, in years gone by not having been removed”
What have you read about Australia’s history? You can’t even read and understand what I’ve said. I stated that the Australian Constitution was based on racist views of inferior people; aborigines and other ‘peoples of colour’? That doesn’t include Kevin Rudd’s race or mine - it does include Aboriginal people, and if you’re black, it could include you too! My whole point, of which you choose to ignore, is that from go to woe, this country was ‘founded’ on racist principles, and IT CONTINUES ON TO THIS DAY! The parts of the Constitution that can discriminate in a negative way are still there, and have been used against aboriginal people. The only real legal prohibition of racism is the Racial Discrimination Act, which Howard broke twice; once for the ammendments to the Native Title Act in 1998, and in 2007 for the Intervention. If a govt needs to remove this in order to do something ‘legally’ then that’s racist, and the result of that has been catastrophic for too many aboriginal people. Not one house has been built, only a handful of people have been charged with sexual crimes against minors, and the health of indigenous people has deteriorated further. In a rich country likek this one, that is criminal!
Put George Williams, Constitutional Lawyer into Google and read some of his articles re the Constitution. Or you could put in
http://www.smh.com.au/printArticle?id=459850 - the article is called,
‘Racist premise of our constitution remains’.
Section 25 ‘allows states to disqualify people from voting because of their race, while the federal Parliament’s races power in section 51(26)authorises legislations with respect to “people of any race for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws” Both sections remain in force today!
“Australia now has what may be the only constitution in the world, that allows its national Parliament to make laws based on a person’s race. As the only democracy without a bill or charter of rights, there is also no check on what the power is used for. The best protection we have is the 1975 Racial Discrimination Act”
I think my example re stealing money and the position indigenous people have and still are experiencing is pretty easy to understand. The point can’t be removed, that the country was stolen in the first instance. Mabo proved the association between indigenous people and their long relationship with the land and their culture. Changing the name or even lying about the history doesn’t change a thing.
Read Henry Reynold’s books, because he went to London and researched this aspect of the history re white settlement. Some of his books are, ‘This Whispering in our Hearts’ and ‘Why weren’t we told?’.
Aboriginal people were on this land - heavily in NSW until they were wiped out from murder and diseases, some introduced deliberately by the invaders to kill them off. In every state and territory, the original inhabitants were here for thousands of yrs - white settlers arrived and removed almost most of them. Successive govts, state, federal and in the NT had policies DELIBERATELY organised to get rid of the race - this reason is stated and has been acknowledged as being written down as policy - that’s genocide! As far as I’m concerned, persons engaging in this activity have no moral grounds of ownership - they had no legal ones either - they just ‘took it’?
Of course Rudd isn’t going to change anything - he’s a protector and upholder of the same attitudes that caused the destruction and misery in the first place. We didn’t need the UN in 1788 or 1901, we needed decent people who’d make a Treaty with the first Australians, and not set out to dessimate them, or ensure that they did not share in the stolen wealth - derived on and under their land. We needed people who didn’t automatically think that aboriginal people were inferior, even worse than animals. Concern was raised in the British Parliament on several occasions about the treatment of aboriginal people - pity they didn’t do something about it! Too many wealthy whites getting even more wealthy by stealing other peoples’ land.
If you can’t or won’t acknowledge history, or you’re ignorant of it, go and do some reading and research. The truth is there, you just have to want to find it. I don’t give a toss whether this country is called Apple, Orange or Australia, it was based on crimes of horrific nature, which would be bad enough, but successive govts have kept indigenous people on the ‘bottom of the pile’ ever since. There’s been some improvements, yes, there are lots of aboriginal doctors, lawyers, artists, etc these days, but the remote aboriginal people are living in conditions that are worse than many other third world countries - this has been acknowledged only recently by several reports out of the UN - after coming here to investigate, also by Amnesty International.
I find it quite amazing, that our national govt can throw money at overseas countries, while our own citizens are living in abject poverty - what a bunch of hypocrites! It’s like handing over millions to Indonesia or ??? to plant trees, while a football field of native trees are cut down in this country every day!
And yes I agree, that there is ingrained and revolting racism in this country. While every new migrant or their country has been denigrated in many ways, the aboriginal people have always been subjected to racism and discrimination by too many in this country. Of course, this has been used in a negative manner by too many media outlets, written and electronic - for their ends. They too benefit by depriving the original Australians of a decent standard of living - just basic things the rest of us take for granted - health, education, housing, sewerage and fresh running water, garbage disposal etc.