Hockey will lead the Liberal Party to disaster
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A short while ago Joe Hockey went to Malcolm Turnbull’s office in Parliament House. Despite repeatedly saying that he would not challenge his leader, he is expected to announce this afternoon that he will be challenging Turnbull for the leadership of their party tomorrow. There’s an outside chance Turnbull will stand aside, but don’t bet on it. The Liberals have nothing Turnbull wants except the leadership. He won’t have any interest in being Hockey’s foreign affairs minister. And in that case, Hockey will win the ballot comfortably, bringing Malcolm Turnbull’s tumultuous period as leader to an end. But he will get no honeymoon. There will be a bounce in the polls for the Coalition, but Hockey enters his leadership as damaged goods – and not because he breached his commitment to his leader. Hockey will be exactly what Nick Greiner and Malcolm Turnbull said yesterday – a puppet of Nick Minchin and the party’s conservatives. Hockey lacks the intellectual heft and political nous to be anything but a figurehead in what will assuredly be a Minchin Regency. But it’s more than that. Minchin and the party’s conservative wing have sent a powerful signal. While accusing Turnbull of wrecking the party, they themselves have demonstrated that they will inflict any amount of damage on the party, its leader and its brand if they don’t like a decision. They lost the debate last week, refused to accept the result, tried to move a spill, lost that too, then resorted to mass resignations to get their way. Malcolm Turnbull has been lashed for hitting back hard at them yesterday but he’s a model of decorum compared to a number of rightwingers in the party. These are men and women who plainly think the rules only apply when it’s convenient for them. Hockey will not be their leader, he will be their hostage. Anything statement short of a repeat of Hockey’s statements last week that the CPRS will be passed will be like one of those dreadful hostage videos, in which captives are forced to say whatever those holding them insist on. Hockey may as well be holding up a newspaper. The only catch is that Hockey himself may not make it to the election, to the dismay of his captors. He is undoubtedly popular with punters, much more so than Abbott. But his indiscipline, his inability to master a detailed brief, his tendency to resort to bullying when he doesn’t like what someone says, all will be the object of a concerted attack from the Labor machine over the next twelve months, starting the very day he gets the leadership. While he’s not the goose that Alexander Downer was in 1994, the possibility of a Downer-style flame-out can’t be ignored. That would leave the party to turn to Abbott, which is what Minchin and the conservatives may want in the long term, but it would also leave them a laughing-stock. Well, more so than they currently are. Turnbull has alienated friend and foe alike with his arrogance, high-handedness and inability to engage constructively and consultatively with his backbench. But he’s a genuine leader, committed to taking the Liberal Party forward and making it competitive. Hockey will lead them to a disaster far worse than Turnbull would have managed. |
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131 Comments
Turnbull is ‘the disaster’, his act of infamy in supporting this evil tax is an act of total betrayal upon the Australian people. KRudd is out of control ( he is mad you know) knowing full well there is no real opposition and that is the disappointing thing about Australian Government currently.
I am flabbergasted in all this that there are some Liberals who genuinely think moving right will help them get re-elected. Where are these votes going to come from? The CDP? One Nation? Aren’t they smart guys some of them? The numbers are pretty straightforward.
Amen Bernard Keane. The upside is that the end result will be a purging of the nutters in the Liberal Party… although in the short term, that leaves no effective Opposition… a terrifying thought for a government with no moral compass.
The line:
is also true regarding democracy proper for these conservatives.
Imagine there is a(nother) ‘climate change election’, the ALP win, but don’t have the senate numbers. The coalition would still try to prevent an ETS from passing.
If at some point - say at the next budget, could we be back to 1975 and denial of supply .
@Chris: I’m thinking that we don’t have an effective opposition currently. As for moral compasses, what kind of thing do you want for a moral compass? They’ve got too much of a religious compass now.
You are right Mr Keane! There never has been a person of such high principle and moral fibre leading a political party in Australia.
Numbskulls like Minchin, Abetz and Joyce will sit there in their Senate castle, with no threat of being dislodged, even in a landslide, but with every intention to destroy their parties.
The electorate demands action. The action Rudd proposes is dead wrong, but without meaningful opposition, guess what we are going to get?
I fear for the future of our country under this meglomaniac.
Interesting scenario. In theory there is certainly a niche for a Liberal/Liberal party (i.e. Liberal with respect to both economic policy and social policy).
But Malcom’s travails are not just because of ideological rifts within the current Liberal party. They also derive from his relative inexperience in the dark arts of politics, which have so much in common with herding cats. Establishing a new party would require an even more high-level mix of inspiration and the ability to cajole, rather than command.
I’m not convinced he would be up to it. Maybe after another ten years of mastering the art, but not now.
The Liberal’s would seem to have lost touch with any of the electorate above a new low base.
If there is a DD election, there will be a split in the Liberals. Small “l” liberals won’t be able to work with the climate sceptics in teh party.
I am concerned about the thought process of some of the Liberal MPs. Micheal Johnson’s team would surely have advised him of his damaged potential for re-election as a climate sceptic with the demographic of his electorate.
“…Imagine there is a(nother) ‘climate change election’…”
The last election wasn’t fought on ‘climate change’.
Conservative fatigue and WorkChoices won the election.
At least get the basic facts right.
Listen to all you Labor gumuts offering advice on who should lead the Conservatives.
You were as happy with Turnbull as the Liberals were with Pottamus Beazley.
Now, let the games begin!
Hey Johnfromplanetearth….get a grip…..
Trouble was Michael, Turnbull could lead the liberals but the conservatives were always going to pull the pin
re the a(nother) ‘climate change election’…” - I agree last election was a tired govt and work choices, I put it in quotes - as overseas it has been reported as such, and at the next election, this will be one of the govts lines.
Michael, given the site, I don’t think there are many rusted on Labor voters here. I think a lot of people are genuinely dismayed at what would happen if the Libs become even more disfunctional. Rudd needs to be debated with and held to account. A Minchin inspired/Hockey led/further right party will be very easily marginalised by Team Rudd, and after the next election, I doubt the Senate will be any sort of road block.
Hey Keane, for a man whose ideology is derived from the depths of a 1950’s Soviet Gulag, you sure are keen to offer Conservatives advice. Why not let them learn to drive their bikes on their own. I think they’ll appreciate not receiving worldly advice from you comrade.
Well I wouldn’t bet on that my sweet Evan. I’d say the 10% of voters who count are getting restless with the experiment. Can you hear the rumble of a stamped? Not yet? Wait a few months.
“…Michael, given the site, I don’t think there are many rusted on Labor voters here…”
No, they’re all barnacled Greens.
That’s the comedy line of the YEAR.
Well done, Evan.
“Gulag? You really are scraping the bottom of the rhetorical bin. I hope Minchin is not pushing you around too much down there.
We have a long tradition of ‘broad church’ parties that aggregate multiple different strands up into two homogenised alternatives. The lower-house electoral system tends to favour this model. In a general election in which the major parties blitz the airwaves for months on end it is very difficult for anyone else to have enough of an impact on a single electorate to become a kajor player.
I think we would have a healthier political debate if we could disagregate all these strands, but I’m not holding my breath.
Oops! - ‘Major player’!
The question is not so much “Who Can Lead the Liberal Party?”, but “Can the Liberal Party Be Led?”
The comedy line of the year?
Anything Minchin says about climate change. But you do have a very bleak sense of humour.
What’s required here is some WD40. You’re all too set in your ways. And that’s the problem really, journalists are taught from birth to be subjective.
Michael
Posted Monday, 30 November 2009 at 4:00 pm | Permalink
Well I wouldn’t bet on that my sweet Evan. I’d say the 10% of voters who count are getting restless with the experiment. Can you hear the rumble of a stamped? Not yet? Wait a few months.
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As I said elsewhere, I have always voted ALP & Greens & Independents in the 5 previous elections I have participated in but I was going to vote for the Liberal Party next election for a few reasons: I now consider myself both a social & economic (though not hardcore) libertarian; I dislike Rudd - or any PM for that matter - lecturing on what good morals are e.g. Bill Henson issue, Kyle Sandilands (who I think is a goose btw) etc, this is not part of the PM`s job in my opinion; and although I think Turnbull has some serious flaws - who amongst our polity does not? - I think he is at least likely to bring innovative ideas were he to become PM.
Regardless of whether the Libs elect the moderate Hockey to the leadership, it will be Minchin and Abbott pulling the strings (they are dryer than the Sahara Desert), and if that is the case I could not, will not, vote for a party that is run by prescribed economic & social conservatives.
Well said Bernard! Nobody’s made the obvious comment. While all this BS goes on, the important question of climate change, and any positive actions are being totally ignored. These bastards, like Minchin et al, don’t give a s**t about anyone but their own idealogical agenda. Take over the coalition with their far rightwing views - not just on this question, but everything?Everything! Worstchoices revisited? Turn back the clock re paid maternity leave, equal pay and RU486, to name just 3 major ones. OK for all you blokes? If you’re white, male and got a decent job in this country, you’re OK! But for women???Scary! Howard’s 1950’s attitude did so much damage to the struggles of women, particularly in the workforce, Domestic Violence (Howard only acknowledges it as major injuries - shotguns etc)
Now, the questionaire of a few months ago re ‘euting out’ pointed to the fact, that most who blog here are those with more than reasonable incomes(over 70% eat out at lunchtime, and almost as many for dinner, at least once a week) - I wish! If you could put yourself in the position of those like myself(pensioner) or worse still, sole parents or those caring for the ill or disabled, life under these mongrels will be a nightmare if they ever get elected! Think of it!
Hockey will be ‘owned’ by these bastards. He’ll always have to consult them on everything. He’ll be the leader in name only. He’s sold out his principles and his very self! He’s as egotistical as they are then! Despicable in my view! They won’t support him without an undertaking to comply with their rules. Rudd looks like a ‘pussy cat’ compared to these bastards! Fancy, Andrews, Abbott, Minchin, Concetta F-W, Mirabella etc pushing their extremist views???Scary!
@LIZ45: You gotta think that anyone who made the resignations of Mirabella, Abbott, Minchin, and Abetz possible like Turnbull did, all in about 5 minutes, can only be doing good things for not only the Liberal Party, but Australia in general.
Liz you old tart! Bet you go out for lunch every day to Zigolinis or DB’s or thereabouts; sipping your red Pinot with your fresh slice of well grilled South Pacific Tuna - long line catch.
I don’t know about the cognitively challenged grass roots who are supposed to be scaring Liberal MPs with angry emails but I found amongst some of the smarter Liberal supporters quite a lot of support for the view that too many of Malcolm Turnbull’s parliamentary colleagues are either incapable of understanding how much smarter he is than nearly all of them or resent it. Still, there is no lack of random daftness: I even heard someone who didn’t know any of them personally say that he thought Kevin Andrews might be OK!
Michael, you are a dreary and uninteresting yobbo. Instead of trying to pick fights here you should be down at the pub getting into a proper brawl. Watch out for the broken bottles.
David you don’t know me well enough to offer me that advice but thankyou anyway. It’s nice of you.
For my part I’m just trying to get you away from your safety zone. You have all gone brain dead singing the same song.
Right on Mr Keane. Sloppy Joe is a fool for being the puppet of the Right, and in the new year his support will resembe Turnbull’s now.
The leader is not actually the problem, it is the lack of policy. And given the last week, we now know why they have no policy: the Liberals can’t agree on anything themselves, and can’t work with the Nationals. No wonder Costello jumped ship. The rabble will keep chewing up and spitting out leaders until they work out what they stand for.
The Minchinites should join the Nats, and leave the moderate Liberals to run a reduced Liberal Party. They could then each pursue their own agendas, and work out a Coalition after the next election, based on comparitive strengths. If Minchin is as correct as he thinks he is, his Party would end up the dominant Right Party.
I haven’t heard anything about Julie Bishop being thrown into the discussion about Joe Hockey for Leader and Peter Dutton for Deputy. Is she just going to lie back and think of England and duty to the Party? How well will this go down with women in the Liberal Party and out there in the voterland? I don’t particularly care for Julie but she has done the hard yards, she’s intelligent, presentable and loyal - how come she is going to be shuffled off to obscurity to make way for Peter Dutton, he of dubious electability ?
MICHAEL! Can’t you read, or are you having a go? Smart a**e! I can’t remember the last time I went out for lunch - more than a sandwich and a coffee at my local shopping centre. The last time for both, was when someone else paid - my sons’ probably. Pensioners don’t go out - they can’t afford it! Smarten up mate - get with reality! Keep on taking the pills. You’ll come good! Truly????????????(sigh!)
ROLLO - It would’ve been better if they’d resigned from the Parliament altogether? They’re a despicable bunch! They remind me of out of control teenagers who knock over garbage bins in the street, when they’re charged up on something? Not even ‘pretend’ adults behave like that! Perhaps Michael???????
Michael
Machiavelism of the Liberal Party is akin to yours. Punching the air while desperately looking for audience.
She loves me… she loves me not…
I agree with what Liz45 said.
And I’ve only seen Hockey on television - in and out of Parliament - but he always looked like a joke to me. Hardly what the Yanks call ‘Presidential’.
@Johnfromplanetearth - the pseudonym you have chosen is ironic, IMHO, if you reckon a tax that tries to do something about climate change is ‘evil’. Or perhaps you have Plan B (Outer Space).
Ouch!! Rena that hurt.
Students of irony will love the appointment of Hockey to the leadership. The very people who deny the Hockey stick of climate change will have installed a Hockey to ensure that Australia’s modest contribution to the climate hockey stick continues un-abated.
As an aside. Anyone who thinks Abbot won’t be elected PM when they dispense with Hockey after the next election are forgetting two things; oppositions don’t win elections governments lose them; and if the people could vote for John Winston Howard they could vote for anyone.
Moira, Jolly Joe is a joke. For a quick summary of his achievements in government, take look at Peter Martin’s blog.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/11/two-of-likely-candidates-tuesday-are.html
I see David Sanderson reliably reverting to his type.
I agree with Michael’s observation that the Sovietkeanes were delighted to sneer at Turnbull as long as he lost gracefully and gave their detestably malignant PM some credibility outside of Pravda on the Yarra and ‘Your’ ABC.
Especially laughable was Keane’s reaction to Turnbull’s apogee of his bold rejection of the Socialists spending-other-peoples-money profligacy. We still haven’t received the invoice.
I actually agree with Bernard though. This is not the right choice for the Liberals. Abbott is.
@LIZ45: I agree. Wishful Thinking has been defenestrated, and lies bleeding on the ground, whispering, What will become of me?
@Michael: Stop being a twat mate. You have not provided any evidence of this unique, anti-cuboidal thinking you keep insisting you have. Saying you have it does not equate to a demonstration that you possess such a quality.
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Does anyone think this possible: the Liberal spill is carried, Hockey tells Turnbull he is running, Turnbull decides against running, Hockey is elected unopposed on the agreement with The Minchinistas that he defers the ETS to committee, Hockey then gives press conference where he states that he supports passing the ammended ETS now and that parliament should continue until the vote is taken?
Shrek & Dunnutton - love it for a laugh but, as others above have pointed out, we need an effective Opposition. Look what the Rodent achieved with control of the Senate, in 3 short years.
If Krudd becomes Tzar, as with other bloodless bureacurats (think Speer or J Edgar Hoover) there is no limit to the damage they could do to normal people of whom they know nowt & care less. The Evil of Banality.
AR, we’ve had the Stalinists and now you drag in the trifecta of the Russian autocracy, the Nazis and the FBI in one splendid burst of paranoid irrelevancy. Well done!
Robert Garnett:
The ‘hockey stick’ graph has been discredited by everyone, including the most ardent climate change advocates. It was a fraud.
Like the latest Climategate email affair, it sadly detracted from the otherwise scientifically sound notion re AGW.
I never understand why some (very few, admittedly, thankfully) scientists/experts fabricate these things when the cold hard facts are, or at least should be, more than enough to convince people of the scientific conclusion. Talk of 7 metre sea rises inside a century etc are just ridiculous and weakens what is already a forceful argument to act in haste to a universal crisis.
AR - Talking about the rodent and his control of the Senate. I’ve remarked before, that when that final Senate seat became the Coalition’s, there was a news clip on ABC TV, when Ron Boswell was speaking on his mobile to Howard - the conversation was to the effect - Boswell, ‘yes we’ve got it = that last seat and a majority (comment from Howard?) Boswell, ‘yes, it’s open s — — -r’? He was going to say, ‘open slather’? I’d assert that Howard stopped him - but those who watched knew what he meant? Strange, how the ABC cut that insightful comment out of successive viewings of the clip?
I’ve just learned via ABC PM, that Hockey isn’t going to vote for a ‘spill’, and so, technically he won’t be doing a job on Turnbull! Hockey said he wouldn’t vote against Turnbull! What a joke? What an insult to even the lowest IQ in the country? If Hockey can kid himself that he’s not doing an arsehole job, then good luck to him. I’m glad my parents taught me much better principles than this! One good reason why I wouldn’t engage in this as a career - couldn’t stand the BS, or the ‘win at any price’ attitude! It stinks! Not that I’m a supporter of Turnbull’s either, it just shows how disgusting they all are. Here’s about 10 people in Parliament House, trying to work out a way of avoiding a vote or sticking to his support of the amended ETS!
Now I’ve just heard, that the Coalition Senators are going to have a “conscience vote’? The prediction is, that the ETS will pass in the Senate. So what’s it all been about? All this grief to get rid of Turnbull? Strange lot!
Dr Harvey M Tarvydas
BK, spot on at so many levels
On principle I think everyone is being unfair in the accusation re Turnbull arrogance evidenced by his backbench relationship even though in practice I understand why it’s happening.
Turnbull is a man who expects proper respect and cooperation from his backbench when he gives all for the party and this is called arrogant by a back bench trained to be sucked and licked for there support.
There is far more in the makeup of these so called ‘denialists’ Liberal players psychologically than the obvious right VS left or conservatism.
Without proposing to draw parallels of any significance beyond highlighting an intellectual meaning or process I say the following for the sake of political theory.
One would have in years past called Hitler and the Nazi’s left or right, conservative definitely but their true meaning to history was something else way beyond the usual adjectives meanings.
So it is with this crowd there is something so much more to their game that the normal ‘meters’ can display for us to discuss, their off the dial or the meter so we don’t know how to really consider them?
The former had an agenda not revealed when normal people voted for them.
So called climate change in itself can’t be that agenda if you look at the various groups, from corporations, business heads to pensioners, support of it.
Beachcomber has one right answer that would seem apparent but I smell more than this behind it that we don’t understand. When humans discuss something and done understand an intrinsic phenomenon on the other side it seems obvious that other side is stupid or dopey but these men are not fools, they may be dangerous because they’re smart and we don’t know where they’re coming from.
Psychology, psychology, psychology is everything (and its complicated).
Robert Garnett saw a Phil Coorey SMH headline and couldn’t help himself. However I find Eddie28’s ensuing “nothing-to-see-here” defense of Climategate laughable.
Senior recognised scientists around the world are calling for the demise of the IPCC and others for Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf to be expelled from the IPCC process. This whistleblower information questions the veracity of the central characters, the core data, metadata and computer programming codes all central to the IPCC reports.
The British government has promised an investigation. The US Senate will investigate but Eddie soothingly informs that the science is settled all over again.
‘Course it is Ed…….
Dr Harvey M Tarvydas
Liz45
You say you were taught better principles.
That’s the big difference when there’s so much spin and BS around.
Both analysis and decision making based on principles would solve it all but few seem to be able to insist on this sort of accountability. (the majority have to be faithful to the same principles and understand committed obedience to them).
BK quotes from the TV interview. In it Turnbull said “Howard was not so sure the science was right or trustworthy but knew we had to do something about an EST or else”
The principle – Howard is not qualified.
Any intelligent person can understand a rollout of words describing some science issue/phenomenon. But that doesn’t mean they understand the ‘science’ meaning of that description as the quality scientist does. There’s a huge difference often which will elude you till you wear the scientists shoes.
Of course you can’t know what is eluding you till then either.
As I’ve said before science is not commonsense.
So Abbott tonight has officially turned it into a 3-way contest.
Moe, Larry and Curly eat your hearts out.
If this was the party in Government, we would be calling for an election to sack the lot!
@Eddie28 and his opinion that the “hockey stick” was fraud.
Mate, it never was fraud and has not been disproved. Just because some inferred from incomplete and selective analysis of some of the data that their prior wish had been confirmed means nothing. The upturns which were predicted are happening, within the bounds of probability.
This is being shown, bit by bit, on a weekly basis, yet the “hockey stick is wrong” brigade stick to their initial, but incorrect, attempt to deny that model.
Regarding 7 metre sea level rises in a century or so, out grand-kids will have to live with whatever the truth of this prediction turns out to be. Certainly, rises of much greater magnitude have been recorded, as also massive falls. Against this backdrop, 7 metres appears not to be very much at all.
All it would take would be for one of the so-called tipping points to be passed, for example, the release of megatonnes of methane from permafrost or for a large part of the CO2 which is locked into the ocean to be released, and 7 metres may appear quite mild.
The real problem would not then be lifestyle choices or energy choices, but billions of refugees and an ungovernable globe. Not worth taking a chance, even if you are a semi-convert to AGW.
Your statement that several emails and the hockey stick “sadly detracted from the otherwise scientifically sound notion re AGW” is far too wishy-washy. This is war and no half measures should be countenanced. None.
Liz45 - yeah, a conscience vote on the ETS (apart from being bizarre in itself - this isn’t a moral issue, it’s an issue of scientific evidence. It’s like having a conscience vote on flouridation…) would solve nothing. How would the Liberal Right treat those who voted to pass the legislation? Would Hockey be forced to take action against them by his puppet-masters the Minchivics? Could they decide to split from the party?
Or if the party room votes to send the ETS to a senate committee, and it comes back in a few months, predictably, with a majority recommendation to pass it, what happens then? Will the Liberals just start tearing themselves apart again? Which side with Hockey go with? How will the Right behave given their preferred delay option has now been completed? Will they try to come up with a new way of delaying further, which the Left will reject? Will they decide that if they can’t delay further, they’ll get even nastier and more desperate? Will they then try to dump Hockey (I’m serious - this crowd are capable of anything except sanity) and replace him with Abbott or some other reliable right winger (Cory Bernardi perhaps?)
Re. Bernard’s original article, yes, Hockey would be insane to take it on now. He’ll be a fig leaf for the Right to continue to increase its control over the party and the moderates will have lost their most promising non-Turnbull figurehead.
Re. various Right-wing trolls. Nick Greiner and John Hewson have both said the same thing. The reason so many of us on the Left are concerned about the state of the Liberal party is that we believe that our democratic system requires a competent and electable opposition to keep the government honest, and that too many Liberals themselves are determined to make the party unelectable. Read, mark, learn from the Victorian Labor party during the 1960s, when the Socialist Left made the party unelectable both at state and federal level.
Dr Harvey M Tarvydas
As I’ve said before science is complicated and like everything else it has to be an organised profession.
The IPCC is not science it’s just part of the science profession. The profession is not science.
JFK’s advising scientists warned of global warming and he passed it on to his people while he promised his scientists would get man to the moon. The debate was on then about both and now it remains on about global warming. (you can debate, if you want, about how space technology will never get humans to the moon)
Much debate about the IPCC’s statements, approaches, distribution of funds and significances will always go on. This whisleblowing is about the performance of the IPCC and that can’t be about the science in itself. The IPCC is not science, it’s just an organisational wing of the total profession.
Dr Harvey M Tarvydas
In scientific thinking it is not unusual to attribute just ‘don’t know’ to an issue or a question about one.
It of course inspires ‘let’s find out the real truth’.
In politics just ‘don’t know’ is never attributed and warble or analyisis goes on till an explanation can be attributed. The ‘don’t know’ could be far more inspiring and lead to more sensible truthful discoveries/explanations eventually if opinions weren’t so important or urgent (they play no part in quality science)
Journalists!
What a lost cause.
Can any one of you please tell me why Climate Change is such a worry to you?
You are all losing your jobs with Fairfax & News in due course because the gravy train is coming to a sudden halt.
Not because of Climate Change.
But because you chose to stop the train the feeds you.
In a panic?
Promote the Liberal Party.
It may save you all.
I’ve just finished watching ‘Order in the House’ that I taped last night. Penny Wong stated, that she asked her people to check out how many inquiries there’s been re the ETS - the answer is 13! So, how much did they cost, and what will the result be of another one. I recall in the 1980’s during the horrific blood bath in El Salvador, and the US was participating on the side of the rightwing militia, Reagan was president(fancy that - involved with an illegal oppression of this type?)and he told the people, ‘that they’d have to keep on voting (forced and dodgy elections? ring a bell anyone?) until they got it right???I think that’s what Minchin and his mob want here.
During the activities in the Senate(order in the house) there’s Minchin sitting there with a sneer/snide, sleazy grin on his face. What a hateful person he is?
I predict, Hockey will win tomorrow, there’ll be no conscience vote, and there’ll be another leadership ‘struggle’ next year sometime, if not sooner. Hockey is a joke! If I’m wrong, and there is a conscience vote, Minchin and Co won’t wear the outcome if it’s not their way! What a waste of time, money and effort!
Turnbull? He’ll either go back to business, or perhaps create a new party as someone has already suggested. The ETS???????????
Eddie the Hockey stick thing was a joke. It’s the climate change deniers who bang on about it, not me. Don’t take things so seriously. Our politicians don’t.
James K. I didn’t see the SMH thing I live in Victoria. It was all my own work! You are right though I can resist everything but temptation.
The issues of CC would appear to be the last thing the old guard might be interested in. There is, in the Liberal Party a valley so deep and wide that it’s comparable only to the Bermuda Triangle. On the valley floor is a large sedately-hued mass composed of yesterday’s people. They huddle together each of them remembering the small victories so beloved of small men. Their daily sustenance is from a long tube which is connected to a wall. This magic tube has a remarkable dimension to it. It can enable the user to receive thoughts. Which is handy since closer observation reveals these yesterdays people share the same defect.
Missing from each ones head is a particular and precise triangle. Wedge maybe could be a better word.
A sample of one of these missing wedges was discovered recently and was sent to the Royal Institute for Biological and Cultural Diversity in Adelaide. Careful analysis revealed it to be 70% compacted air, 20% un-questioned loyalty to the church of Rome, 5% of the genes to reproduce itself, and 5% pure avarice and greed for little power plays. The whole was covered with a leather like substance of unusual thickness.
A recent experiment was carried out on these men. Someone from the Institute’s department of palaeontology had come across one of the missing wedges. Slotted into the missing space in each person’s head, it revealed that no matter who the recipient was, they spoke the same words, and had the same thoughts as their predecessor.
Finally it was revealed the tube which was the source of their nutrients was, in fact connected to a building called The Raison d’etre Centre of Moral Ambiguity- John Winston Howard research wing. At it’s centre sits a little old man with pronounced eyebrows, big glasses and a strange body constructed of blue wedges.
When asked where the youth of the Liberal Party resided the old man gave an obscure, almost enigmatic smile. “The things we don’t stand for are youth, fresh ideas, energy, initiative, loyalty, fearless courage, or the future for Australia. The future is already in place. It is here now, it will never change. Long live the Queen and all who sail in her. Health to the Queen. Come on charge your glass!”
‘But, but sir, I am a Republican’
“Ha one of them tried to join our little club. It wasn’t on you know. I fixed him though.”
“How?”
“Gave him something that someone else was trying to foist onto me. A little thing called ETS. He became quite carried away by the whole thing. Wanted to change the world!”
‘But you didn’t think it was the right thing to do?’
“Nah, I put that mad monk onto him. By the time he’d changed his mind a hundred times either the ETS or the man pushing the idea would give up. Listen young man get out of the way, I’m waiting for something.” He pulls out a tatted bit of paper and squints at something, then he looks up. “Armagedon has just arrived. Do you know anyone of that name?”
@Robert Garnett
Yes. Sorry I rather used you as a segue……
However if you are interested in perhaps at least some of the reason for some sceptical Liberal intransigence then this was a wonderful rationale to hope that the tide of public opinion will turn particularly in 2 - 3 months time. It’s an excellent interview (short) with Aynsley Kellow
Professor and Head of the School of Government at the University of Tasmania. Expert reviewer for the the United Nation’s IPPC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) Fourth Assessment Report: Climate Change and Key Vulnerabilities on Climategate controversy and possible implications.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/stories/2009/2757619.htm
It makes a mockery of Eddie’s ‘reassuring’ babble.
Actually it makes a mockery of Bernard Keane’s position but that usually requires no special effort these days…..
Hockey is a dream come true for Labor. A ‘free vote’ gives passage to the ETS but it gives the Liberals absolutely no credibility on climate change. Any voter who took climate change seriously would know that they could not be trusted to implement appropriate policies.
It is a copout and paradoxically does nothing to present Hockey as a strong leader. Hockey is stupid to think that it does. If the ETS is going to pass anyway they should have a leader who can be trusted on the issue - ie Turnbull.
Is Nick Minchin the new Federal “Joe Tripodi’?
[Edit - please focus on the issues - please refrain from insulting other commenters]
And if some Liberal Senators do get the Bill to pass this will be the result of Turnbull’s refusal to go quietly. If he had not pressured Hockey to not appear to be a puppet of Minchin and his mates then he probably would have caved in to to their demands to endlessly defer and defeat the ETS.
So, full marks to Turnbull for not going meekly and fighting the bastards all the way.
Ahhhhh. I had hope for Hockey…
I figured he’d have done everything in his power to avoid being put forward as leader - giving the job to Abbot, who we know will be destroyed in an election, regardless of how the party is going in the polls.
Get that out of the way, then get Hockey in for real, once the shit fight has stopped.
We just have to wait for things to calm down, give it about 2 years until finally we start to get a semblance of a reasonable opposition.
BULLMORE’S GHOST: Dear Kerry. Have you noticed something unusual about Crikey’s comments today? I suppose I’m just being non-paranoid for once. HINT, comments (!).
F-CK! I give up. Anyone for Ian Macfarlane?
The Liberal leader that Bernard Keane and particularly David Sanderson advocate at any time of Liberal division to then hypocritically smear later is incontrovertible evidence if more were needed that the Liberal Party should get rid of Turnbull.
They will tomorrow.
Hopefully Abbott will get up despite him taking the only rational position available on this Rudd turkey legislation.
MICHAEL
My money was on Abbott.
But what the hell.
Liz
You are revolting!
But you may have some done good.
Showing up the gumnuts in this forum.
Michael, this is not a haven for the demented - well only some of the time. Please desist.
David
Is there a debate to be had?
Or is it now all over with debate?
Mate
I don’t believe in Climate Change caused by CO2.
Am I not able to debate this here?
Is this your domain only?
Nick Minchin, the ultimate carpetbagger, has set back Australian politics 40 years.
SPENNY: You ignore the greater issue at your peril. At the last election the Liberal Party set itself back one hundred and forty years. The Gothic horror of today’s little party, shows there are still living members of this same party still living 140 years in the past. Turnbull, warts and all, might have been the wake-up pill the Libs needed.
The Party is dead. QED.
Yes, comments from the censor are always welcome.
As for the next Opposition Leader, I’m thinking Chance the gardener. Is he still available?
Bring on the Mad Monk - preening and posturing personified.
Nick Minchin is the poison dwarf of Federal politics.
VENISE - I’m no fan of the Libs, but at least Ian Macfarlene shows some maturity, unlike the other children in the parliament. My apologies to those smart kids who might read this. My 3 youngest grandkids, in primary school, are heaps smarter than this lot. I include you too, Michael!
And so to bed - good night all!
Dashing through the slush
In a contest that’s 3-way
The Mad Monk’s in a rush
To piss The Bill away.
Hockey’s made a botch
Giving Minchin fright
What fun it is to laugh and watch
The Lib & Nat shitfight.
So you are Liz & Bullshit.
Riddle me this & riddle me that.
You ain’t no pensioner.
My God how do you live with yourself?
Michael, this is demented garbage that pollutes an otherwise highly intelligent conversation….. OK, it ain’t that but your puerile rantings are beyond the pale.
David.
Silly boy.
Mike
Forget Joe & Malcolm, they’re dull small l Liberals; Tony’s the MAN, he will lead not only the Party but Australia from the wilderness. He’s got the Bush/Howard ideology that kept the world going. Tony leader, Sophie treasurer I say. “God save the Queen”! Mr Abbott ‘s got the mental tuffness to do it all, swims, rides a bike. Bring back Work Choices, The Tampa, Nauru,The balaclavas and all Western Australian rednecks. Tony will make sure ABORTIONS are illegal and his good mate Kevin ( the other Kevin) will ensure Euthanasia will never be legal. Common you L Liberals, join Minchin and the rest of us to fight the left conspiracy on climate change, we all know it doesn’t exist, Senator Minchin has assured me it doesn’t. Bring back the 1950’s, that’s what we need in this country! Sorry, I’m a bit emotional on these issues, maybe I should withdraw the word sorry.
PS- Under Tony’s leadership it will not be compulsory to go to church on Sundays, but you won’t be looked as a model citizen if you don’t.
I am really disappointed and disillusioned with Australian politics at the moment. I despise both political parties although if it came to the crunch, I would support the Coalition.
Whilst delaying the ETS is not as silly as it seems, more than one expert has said that it is far from perfect, Turnbull has done the right thing to side with the ALP as the electorate is demanding it. Good on Turnbull, he has atleast shown some spine as a leader - if only Rudd could do the same!
Bushow - I disagree. Whilst Abbott is a very smart man and a very astute politician, he is not widely liked within the electorate. I like him but he will never win elections.
Remarkable that Hockey has disqualified himself from ever becoming PM with his first ‘pre-leadership’ decision - the ‘free vote’ on the ETS.
He might as well have said that there will be a ‘free vote’ on his first Budget. Throughout the day there will be growing incredulity that this non-decision was his first major decision.
“Throughout the day there will be growing incredulity that this non-decision was his first major decision.”
There shouldn’t be. Remember it’s Joe Hockey we’re talking about here. Plus ça change …
Hockey may turn out to be a suprise like Rudd was?
those of you who thought Rudd was PM material before he was leader deserve a million dollars!
I don’t think anybody saw Rudd coming. However, Like Malcolm he’s got a bit more in the way of grey matter than Jolly Joe.
well Bullmore, I don’t understand our country at the best of times….
My take of Joe is that he is a good bloke and eveybodys friend but does that translate into respect?
Duke: the old saying goes that good guys don’t win.
From what I’ve seen and heard tonight on the tube, master puppeteer Minchin went ballistic when his chosen marionette Jolly Joe sprouted that bit about a free vote and cranked up the Mad Monk with new running orders: “Bollocks to all that you’ve said to date, run you mad bastard and knock Hockey off for Christ’s sake!”
It would serve Minchin and his cabal right to get Hockey now.
exactly right Bullmore..
Whilst I am a South Aussie expat living in the UK, Minchin is off this planet. I actually used to like him but from what i read and watch via online, he is fruitloop!
will MT hang around if he loses the leadership?
Sceptic MP Michael Johnson called Joe Hockey ‘spineless’ on lateline last night. That is what Joe is in for if he leads the libs to the next election. Why would he take it on?
There is only one possible way out of this for the libs. Hand Malcolm a crushing victory and use that momentum to lead into an election. Repudiate climate scepticsim at every turn.
Michin is a reactionary who want to impose a view of a noisy 10% on the rest of the country and he is even willing to blow up his own party to achieve it. There has never been a more machiavellian politician in our recent history. His performance on four corners was a cold, calculating and malicious.
could not agree more Blue_Green…
I’d like to think that MT’s stocks have actually risen in the eyes of the general electorate..
Brilliant Blue_Green!
The one possible way it is then………
Or is it?
Mind you Machiavelli was no Kamikaze was he?
Does your prejudiced outlook so easily disallow you to look for a logical rationale?
Hockey will certainly have problems being the Liberal Party’s handbag. Fronting for the old guard clique will be an impossible role for anyone, leading up to the election. It will be impossible now to close down the infighting. You almost have to feel sorry for Handbag Hockey.
Bernard says: “Turnbull has alienated friend and foe alike with his arrogance, high-handedness and inability to engage constructively and consultatively with his backbench. But he’s a genuine leader…”
This is very silly Bernard. It’s a fair description of Napoleon, but the big N was a killing machine not a parliamentarian. If Turnbull thinks he’s Napoleon, there’s a vacancy in Waziristan.
This grubby party brawl is pure heroin to political junkies. Bernard yesterday was hyperventilating about Generals Patton, U.S. Grant and “courage in the night”…
What with Bernard hyperventilating and Rundle’s meanderings, Crikey’s “crack team of pundits” is more like a team of pundits on crack. It was a relief to read Mungo MacCallum.
I wonder If politics as run in the local insane asylum are not a cut above this shonky talkfest currently being served up to potential voters by the former leaders of the blue rinse- set.
Advice to Malcolm: Go the very hard yards, and form your own party. Encourage all the Catholics in the Liberal Party to either retire or commit sepu. By the time you’ve achieved this a reinvigorated Liberal Party will want you to return. So all your hard work will have not been in vain.
The word around the watering holes and traps seems to be that you covet the leadership OF THE LIBERAL PARTY. If you can’t go deeper than that for your motivations you are not fit to lead any political party.
No need to fret for the wellbeing of the Liberals Cavitation.
Amazingly David Sanderson got it right.
Joe shot himself in the foot late yesterday.
And such a spineless booboo will be long remembered.
STOP PRESS: New conservative leader of the Liberals is George W Bush with Dick Cheney as deputy.
Minchin still pulling the strings though.
Well, Abbott is Leader by 1 vote! Hockey knocked out in the first ballot, and Turnbull lost by 1 vote. Still a big split. I predict Abbott won’t last. Shows that the support for Turnbull, and therefore the ETS is pretty strong. Fran Bailey wasn’t there apparently. Might have been a tie?
God, how will I watch Question Time with Abbott! Can’t stand him one bit! Minchin will still be in control now? Abbott has a really nasty side too! (swears at women co-guest(Nicola Roxon) on National Press Club when he was over 30 mins late - 2007 - very nasty!)
Peoples is The One……..
Might as well close this thread now! Time to start a new one:
“Abbott will lead the liberal party to disaster”
Christmas has come early!
Wishful thinking Mal.
Abbott was always more courageous than Costello.
Napoleon is dead - long live the King
A jesuit-trained bastard son of Barthomlew Augustine Michael (call me Bob) Santamaria, just what the country always wanted. If this servant of the vatican had any courage at all he would do what his love father did-lead all the Catholics out of the Coalition-that, unfortunately, would have to include Malcolm Turnbull. To form their own Democratic Liberal Party. I am forced to wonder how many of the younger ones would have to fess up?
This is just so typical of the Catholic mentality. They want the best of everything free of charge. Of course they wont form up their own party, they know as well as everyone else, there are not enough radical Catholics to support such a party. Far better to leech on the major players.
Ar u sure you don’t want to be smote?
It will be interesting to see what happens today. There was a secret ballot on the CPRS and it will not be supported by the Coalition. So what will Rudd do now? Can’t call a DD before Christmas, that would be politically stupid, so? After Christmas, mid year perhaps? Abbott’s manner of speaking drives me nuts, not to mention what he says. Abbott will do a dummy spit, or show his nasty side under pressure I believe. 1 vote???
LIZ: You sound surprised to discover about the reptilian Tony Abbott. He’s anti abortion, anti birth-control, anti-euthanasia and couldn’t lie straight in a bamboo forest. See how many times he’s reversed his stance on CRPS. Perhaps the Vatican computers have crashed and God’s anointed has been reduced to using carrier pigeons.
Jesus Christ, I thought Santamaria’s love-child was securely nailed to the cross.
Venise you would have been a great asset in Elizabethan England running the torture chambers. What a despicable mind you have honey.
VENISE - I don’t know how I gave you that idea about Abbott. I can’t stand him. I can’t stand his misogynist attitude to women - full stop! I’d hate to live with him, as I think he’d be a controlling and intimidating person, like Howard would be, in my view. I’ve seen a really nasty look on Abbott’s face on several occasions, and he just gives me the creeps. Listening to him is one thing, looking at him as well is more than a body should have to cope with. I was brought up Catholic, and I reject everything this religion stands for, particularly their hatred and controlling attitude to women. It’s been my personal experience, that men who are so rigid, controlling and sexist in their demeanour, are abusers of women, and possibly kids, particularly daughters!
The worst thing about the ‘Abbotts’ of this world, is their ruthless and oppressive domination of women.
Too true LIZ: All religions are based on the view that women are of slightly less value than the family donkey. Why women fall for this horse-shit is utterly beyond me. Some of them even want to become priests??????
I’ll say one thing about my own sex ‘more of the same’ is what they want. Un believe able.
VENISE - What really amazes me about the women who want to be priests, is they sit through all the hateful, sexist, claptrap and otherwise insulting language, and still want to be priests. I’d walk away! Enough! I just can’t tolerate their hateful nonsense any more - too many yrs of it. I noticed on White Ribbon Day, that there were some really wonderful men on blogs etc, who are saddened and ashamed by their sex’s treatment of women, but the ugly ones were still out there. I’ve met those nice men, of different ages at rallies and protests and on picket lines too, in stores etc and they’re a joy to be around - the others????
The worst are the ‘house arseholes, street angels’ variety. (I was married to one?)If 25% of women are abused, that means that 1 in 4 males in federal parliament are abusers? I can point to a few of them very easily! Nasty mean mouths, awful looks when they’re not aware of the camera on them etc- not difficult. My ‘gut reactions’ aren’t often wrong!
What a shame, I thought the time was just right for a jolly fat man
“Venice”
LIZ: You sound surprised to discover about the reptilian Tony Abbott. He’s anti abortion, anti birth-control, anti-euthanasia and couldn’t lie straight in a bamboo forest. See how many times he’s reversed his stance on CRPS. Perhaps the Vatican computers have crashed and God’s anointed has been reduced to using carrier pigeons.
Maybe Abbott dosnt give a shit about your opinion and you 6pm news commentry.
GLEN BECK - Oh! Really? I thought he wants to be elected at the next election. Bad luck for him if you’re his PR person, eh? With friends like you etc????
Perhaps Vernice and I don’t give a shit about your opinion either?
GLEN BECK: Then that makes us even, because I, sure as shit, don’t give a f/uck about your opinion.
VENISE - Go get ‘im! I’m with you! (What’s the recent term? girlfriend? no doesn’t really suit does it?)
Oh! the life of the upper class white male! think they’re what makes the world turn! Self opinionated git! Why couldn’t he debate the question, not resort to this nonsense. Little boys in men’s bodies? Pathetic aren’t they? I’ve an almost 9 yr old grandson - smart as a tack? Wake up to people like this?
I’m just listening to PM, and I can’t believe they’ve given all this time to Abbott (from after the news until 6.40pm - so far?)! I’m just about to scream at the radio! My god, if Abbott were to win, we’d have WorstChoices gone mad! Female workers will be even worse off than under Howard’s???
LIZ: You have greater courage than me. I couldn’t bring myself to listen. I have avoided the news thus far, but I suppose I’ll have to watch the 7.30 report. To think of those ping pong bat- ears waggling at me whist the owner drones on in his Irish/Oz voice, peeing himself because someone’s told him the Holy Father will be watching.
My poor, poor country, what did we do to deserve this?
VENISE - A masochist I am? I have the radio on all day, and then I turn the TV on ABC for the news. I’ll have to find a way to turn it off when he comes on.
“My poor, poor country, what did we do to deserve this?”
To use one of Abbott’s recent quotes - ‘shit happens’?
I hope Rudd brings on an election pretty soon, before they have time to get any traction. A year of Abbott is more than a body can bear!
Did you hear Kerry O’Brien refer to Abbott’s book re the States? Take over the states like they can the Territories? I heard it as ‘wind back the Victorian legislation re abortion law reform??????Take a look at it on the web if you missed it on TV? Scary stuff! I’m going to have another look, just to make sure I got the right slant!
LIZ: Yup, that’s exactly what Abbott will have in mind, try to overturn Victoria’s recent, ‘conscience vote’ allowing abortion in this state. After all, wasn’t it what John Winston Howard did with the ‘right to euthanasia’ bill brought in in the Northern Territory. No sooner was Howard in power than he overturned that one.
The pious god fearing right…to tell everyone else what to do. Dare one mention democracy to these evil people?
VENISE
VENISE - Sorry, I pressed the wrong key! Did you watch Abbott on the 7.30 Report? He did say that didn’t he? I’ve been out today, but as soon as he said that last night, I thought, ‘oh dear, shades of Howard here’? I don’t think Kerry challenged him on what he might do, maybe Abbott was just a bit too casual.
They only believe in their brand of democracy - which only applies when you actually vote them in, but stops immediately after. Like Howard and Worstchoices and the Anti-terror laws - one he snuck through on Melbourne Cup day, and he put the gag on re the other one. I lost count of the number of times they adopted this ‘anti democratic’ practice! Hypocrites!
LIZ: Am just getting on top of a heap of stuff to do and haven’t had a chance to watch the TV. I will tonight. Also I’m still gobsmacked.
MICHAEL: If we are all so brain-dead, implication being you’re not, how is it you speak the same language?
Sorry LIZ, I had to ask that question. See you!
[Edit]
But get used to an Abbott Liberal Government for 12 years after the next election.
Oh god Michael, that was so funny….. ooh me achin’ sides
MICHAEL - In your dreams! My worst nightmare. After getting rid of Howard, do you think the Australian electorate is stupid enough to vote for his No 1 head kicker? With that other moronic mysogynist Bill Heffernan! It’s OK for you, the conservatives only govern for white well off males - you probably think you have the divine right to benefit from keeping women and the lowest paid in poverty?(with labor not much better, I hasten to add!)
is voting 1 2 2 2 2 still legal (as in a valid vote)? I don’t think I want my preferences distributed.
It’s legal but informal Meski.