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A cautionary tale…
Rudd is drowning on boat people
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Evidently the punters are impressed with Kevin Rudd’s handling of the asylum seeker issue, what with a 4 point Newspoll bounce this week, although perhaps it was Malcolm Turnbull’s return to Temporary Protection Visas, given the Coalition slumped — “slumped” being one of those terms peculiar to polling commentary — 4 points. In reality, the Prime Minister’s handling of the Oceanic Viking issue has been singularly inept. For a bloke who has set such a high standard of discipline and controlled messaging, he has never looked in control of it and he has gotten worse as the issue has developed. He is currently maintaining that the “deal” offered to the asylum seekers who have, effectively, hijacked the Oceanic Viking, is in no way better than they would have otherwise received. In doing so, Rudd has displayed all his worst traits — the hiding behind public servants, the insistence that he is not across the details, the unwillingness to make the smallest admission lest it be construed as some sort of victory for the Opposition. Remind you of anyone? It’s particularly laughable when Rudd insists on pointing to a letter from one of his own “independent””Departmental Secretaries as evidence that the recalcitrance of the Oceanic Viking group is not being rewarded with special treatment. “The group is being treated in a manner consistent with that afforded to any other asylum seeker or refugee in Indonesia,” Immigration Secretary Andrew Metcalfe has written. The essence of the offer to the Oceanic Viking group is the offer to process them in the following manner:
The most recent figures suggest there are approximately 2100 asylum seekers currently being processed by the UNHCR in Indonesia, apart from this group. There is anecdotal evidence of asylum seekers waiting over 24 months for a determination by the UNHCR, and then waiting longer for resettlement (the UNHCR was approached for information on processing times but was unable to provide it by deadline). It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that, if the group is being treated in a manner consistent with that afforded to any other asylum seekers in Indonesia, the treatment it is receiving is altogether more expeditious. In fact the commitment made by the Government is roughly in accordance with Department of Immigration, rather than UNHCR, standards. The Department of Immigration has a target of 90 days to process “on-shore” applications for protection visas, under legislation introduced by the Howard Government. In 2008-09, 77% of applications were dealt with within 90 days, and 60% within six weeks, although there was a small increase in the number of applications. A Department of Immigration spokesperson told Crikey this morning that the number had fallen this financial year to 75% of applications, under pressure from a rise in applicants. We asked how long it normally takes to release a detainee into the community once their application for a protection visa has been approved, but they were unable to tell us. But based on normal Immigration processing times, in effect, the group will receive the same treatment they would get if they had been taken to Christmas Island, albeit without an explicit commitment to be resettled in Australia. The Government’s claim that the group has not been offered special treatment simply doesn’t stack up. Bizarrely, Malcolm Turnbull is pursuing the issue from the perspective of whether the Prime Minister has misled Parliament. Does he still, even after the Godwin Grech business, harbour some fantasy of forcing Rudd to resign in a supreme “gotcha” moment? All he has to do is to keep Rudd talking about how he didn’t know the details of the deal, and how there’s no special deal because Andrew Metcalfe says there isn’t, and how he’s tough but humane, and the reputational damage will continue to accrue to Rudd, who looks more and more unconvincing on this issue. Meantime, the boats keep arriving. Whatever Kevin Rudd’s message is on asylum seekers, he needs to change it soon. |
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49 Comments
Is inconceivable that Kevin Rudd, the control freak that is, would allow the offer to the Oceanic Viking protesters to be made without his knowledge.
He is taking a leaf out of the book of the previous Prime Minister and his Minister for Foreign Affairs, who never knew anything about AWB bribing Saddam Hussein’s regime, by a process of engaging in ongoing and strenuous denial.
The Howard government made an art form out of denial even when documents were delivered to their offices by e-mail. So there is a strong precedent for a position of “see no evil,” like one of the three wise monkeys.
Rudd is in line for the annual “Manuel of Barcelona - I No Nothing” award for his performance to date.
I’m not a big fan of opinion polls. They’re undemocratic, unrepresentative and politicians rely on them way way way too much.
One problem with them is this:
” “slumped” being one of those terms peculiar to polling commentary — 4 points.”
Don’t these polls usually have a “margin of error”? Oh yes, here it is:
From the Newspoll website: “The latest survey is based on 1,162 interviews among voters. The
maximum margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.”
So depending on how you want to read the poll, an extraordinary number of conclusions can be created. By the way, 1162 voters seems to be a small sample. I’m sure I read somewhere that a representative sample in Australia required 1500 voters.
According the the Australian:
“[Kevin Rudd] denied the accelerated processing represented a special deal, citing a letter from Immigration head Andrew Metcalfe saying the resettlement timeframes were “consistent with international practice”.
Consistent with international practice. Maybe that’s what makes this resolution an anomaly. How often can we say that?
Could it just be that, contrary to the likes of Piers Akerman et al, most Aussies just don’t really care too much about the asylum/boat people issue, or, shock horror, some actually support the government?
While I suspect, where there is smoke etc Turnbull once again demonstrates his wham bam thankyou — - by charging in yet again, making claims he cannot backup with facts. He may be on to something, I like many do not believe for one moment Rudd knows nothing about any offers, but if Turnbull wants to make any mileage out of this, why does he not shutup and wait, get some concrete facts. But oh no he charges in again, making accusations and if perchance Rudd wriggles out of this one, who ends up looking a fool? The man cannot control his utter hatred of Rudd and he loses his grip when he gets a sniff. He will need a lot more to get anything on this tricky PM.
Bizarrely, the popularity of a political party in our country depends solely upon the technique of how to rock the boat with 78 asylum seekers. Up goes Indonesian solution, down goes TPV. Australia must be a very lucky country with no other contentious issues. And our political parties are so bloody lucky not to be judged on other issues. All the way to the polling booths!
‘Quo, quo scelesti ruitis?’ (Horace)
One day the PM apologizes to people who were abused, some beyond our worst imaginings, when they were children. I spent the day crying on and off, listening to the speeches, the stories on TV, and then via ABC radio for the rest of the day. I’m always overwhelmed by the spirit of the human person under these terrible conditions - their survival moves me as much as the trauma of their experiences. I suppose it’s all combined.
Then Rudd & Turnbull got back to the revolting point scoring at the expense of other human beings, including children(those up to at least 16 in my view) and they’re back to the awful behaviour of several weeks now. I’m finding it really difficult at this point, and I’m sure Marilyn and others are too. It’s just so bloody appalling, and the lies and cheap shots and theatrics are beyond obscene.
Next week, they’ll be sporting white ribbons on WRD, while adding to the abuse that these people have either suffered already, or have a realistic fear that they will suffer if forced back to Sri Lanka! I want to scream, but my words will just fly back in my mouth - most depressing! If anyone calls me a ‘bleeding heart’ I’ll ???? - better than showing I don’t have one, or a brain that would help me find out the truth, and speak its name, instead of this BS! I want to ‘bash’ their heads together, run them out of the room by the ear; roll up my sleeves and sort it out - at least start with priorities??
Are the kids getting enough milk yet? How about the pregnant woman(women?). Being looked after I suppose!
Rena, “Australia must be a very lucky country with no other contentious issues.”
I used to think so. Until I saw some of the Aboriginal settlements out west. Australia agonizes over trivial issues to avoid dealing with the serious issues.
RAYMOND CHURCH: “The man (Turnbull) cannot control his utter hatred of Rudd and he loses his grip when he gets a sniff.” I have realised this for some time, but foolishly, I allowed it to remain on a superficial level. Is it because he wishes he had the job because he believes he could do it better, or is there something much deeper to his paranoia? After all he spent a lot of time and trouble to nut out the Godwin Grech affair.
Just interested.
VENISE - Hi again Venise! Could it be that Turnbull believes he has a ‘divine right to rule’ as most of the conservatives believe? Look at the pompous Downer who always ‘wore’ an air about him that evidenced this. Ruddock made a comment a few weeks ago, that I should’ve written down at the time, but it was to the effect that with the electorate, you had to communicate to the ‘lowest common denominator’. I was insulted by that arrogance - the great unwashed belief. Little boys in men’s bodies????Boring isn’t it?
I’m not very interested in the ‘games the boys play’. I find it about as infantile as having to send my boys to different parts of the yard to stop their fighting; when they decided to act like sensible people, they could resume their play or whatever, or speak respectfully while resolving their conflict - never condoned physical violence. At least kids have an excuse - lack of experience and maturity - same as these two so-called men?
Another interesting move in the House this afternoon…Turnbull moves a censure motion re the Govts handling of the asylum seekers and in particular the handling of those on board the Oceanic Viking, he is not 5 minutes into the motion when news is being released on the ABC the remaining asylum seekers have agreed to leave the OV. This announcement from the Indonesian authorities. Oh dear, is that timing or is that timing. Im afraid Malcolm just can’t win. He is proving yet again, he is not up to scratch, his mouth goes into overdrive before the brain finds a gear.Time to cut his losses and head for the hills, before he cops a blade in the back. This is one politician who hasn’t got what it takes.
How dare those refugees expect to be treated fairly and in a timely manner. Four years is not long enough to wait in detention centres. Just because they have been assessed as refugees is no reason for them to think that they might just be offered resettlement. After all Australia resettled 35 people from Indonesia last year- isn’t that enough to show how generous we are- 35.
Having fled Sri Lanka where every Tamil is a terrorist until they have proved them selves otherwise and then been locked up in Indonesian detention centres, you would think that they would just do what Australia wanted and march off the ship back into the Indonesian detention Centres and prepare for another 4 years of misery
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How dare they think that we Australians might feel compassion for their suffering through a brutal civil war and then the cruelty and deprivation of life in a third world prison?
PAMELA - I heartily agree! Totally! I just want to give them a hug. I wonder if they’ve been able to shower or change their clothes? Imagine how that must feel?
I’d like to see Rudd, Turnbull,Sharman Stone, Tony Abbott, Tuckey and Brandis(to start with) on a leaky boat for 4 weeks - not on the OV as it’s too good for them!
I find it a bitter irony, that people chanting the ‘protect our borders’ nonsense only got access to the country via a bloody struggle by the original inhabitants, who never relinquished their rights to their land, language or culture! Apart from aboriginal people, most of us are boat people, or in more recent times, air people! John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’ springs to mind. Who’s land is it anyway, and who sold it to LJ Hooker or whoever?
I wonder how these people would react, if the immigration people raided backpacker hostels each weekend, looking for “illegals”? I can just imagine, scores of mostly young white people being herded into Baxter or Woomera or Port Headland or somewhere. The shockjocks would need emergency medical intervention! Now, black or chocolate coloured people, with little or no english, well???
The only thing drowning in the asylum seeker issue is the Aussie media. Like most thinking people I’ve had a gut full of the coverage from a bunch of lazy try hards. Or is it just hysterical rightwing journo’s with more sh!t up their nose, probably both. All I can see are coalition turds bobbing around in sea of drowning journos and guess what it stinks. Thank god there’s been a couple toddlers go through a horrendous procedure for a better chance at life to get other refugees off the top news spot. I wonder when the call will come from the coalition for these kids to pay back the medical costs or to deport these queue-jumping freeloaders. Hey Mal, better check to see how they got here, might have been a special deal done to mislead the public. Why were these disable children allowed in the country, I’m sure they don’t meet the criteria, How did the government get this preferential treatment of refugees past your bloodhound like nose.
You’re a disgrace!
PHIL - Good on you Phil! I agree!
It took me a few seconds to wake up? The little cherubs who’ve just had 25 hours surgery - dear little possums! They’ve been here for a while - they’re not 3 yet? I don’t care how long they’ve been here, I just hope it works out well. Imagine working in shifts to operate for that long. amazing!
Did you also hear about the bloke from Sth Africa, who’s been knocked back from taking up a demanding job in the IT industry as he’s a quadraplegic? He was shot in his spine; has worked hard to learn to do things for himself, even stopped taking his pain killers, causing him heaps of agony. Apparently, if the govt(immigration dept) thinks your medical condition will cost more than $21,000 over a lifetime, you won’t be let in. From the news item this morning, he has high skills that are required by the job he went for, and won!
I hope we paid for those little girls’ surgery! Awesome!
LIZ45: Hi Liz, I think you’ve got a very real point there. He, like the Libs, believes he has the divine right to rule! I’ve always known the Libs are like that but I hadn’t thought of the obvious parallel. Of course he’s convinced we can’t live without him and-here I’m not trying to push a point of view-which every one in Oz seems to know about, my atheism, but being a god-botherer makes him sure that god has put him there.
How infinitely depressing, but I’m convinced you’re right.
RAYMOND CHURCH: Agree, agree, but no-one else in Turnbull’s Party seems to want the poisoned chalice, except for Tony Abbott; mercifully lots of other people seem to agree with me on that score.
Apart from that I believe that Malcolm, because he was successful in business, thought he would be a certainty to be successful in politics. Another perhaps; could it be that people could be frightened by the amount of catholics on the conservative side of the benches. Especially since the conservatives believe in heredity king/leader ship.
Bernard, I was one of those polled by Newspoll - about this time of day, I think it was a Friday arvo. I can’t remember the exact words but the question roughly went: “Do you think the government’s handling of the asylum seeker issue in Indonesia has been good or bad?” That’s the choice. Good or bad.
Now, they’ve already asked me how I’m going to vote. So when I think of this asylum seeker question and whether the government is good or bad (Yeah, I know, that’s how I think), I’m going with the government right at the moment because I figure, things could be a whole lot worse. At least the 78 are on an Australian ‘government’ ship, they won’t be flogged with whips or cattle prods - this whole show is fairly public and we’re all watching so I expect it will be ‘managed’ into a soft landing. That has to be ‘good’. It’s not ‘bad’ even if it takes longer than five minutes (despite our age we’re so ‘instant gratification’ now we’ve got the Internet) or costs a squillion. So Newspoll got a ‘good’ from me.
The next question was - “Is that slightly good or very good?” It’s juvenile really.
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=455580
I wonder why the vessel which intercepted the asylum seekers near Christmas Island, carried them into Indonesian waters,” Indonesian military spokesman, Air Vice Marshall Sagom Tamboen, said as quoted by the Jakarta Globe
Because this would be a very serious breach of the law if it is.
With all the hot air and nonsense the refugee convention is still enshrined in law and I think this is the real clue to the spin by the Rudd mob.
They have been flat out lying.
It’s strange though. Former union man Michael Tumbers who now works for Senator McEwen told me in February about Rudd’s so-called Indonesian solution and is now really dark on me for blowing the whistle on the liars.
“Rudd is absolutely wrong to suggest that he is entitled to force refugee claimants into detention in Indonesia on the grounds either that they are travelling with aid of people smugglers, or because they are “illegal” immigrants.
Refugees use smugglers – and sometimes, regrettably, traffickers as well – precisely because there is no other way quickly, and with even a modicum of reliability, to get out of dangerous places and to a country in which they can seek recognition of their protected status. Australia, like most other rich countries, has erected a myriad of physical and legal barriers – carrier sanctions, visa controls, and the like – that prevents genuine refugees from coming to us legally. Even if a refugee could somehow safely reach and walk into an Australia embassy abroad, we would not issue a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum here. Travel without pre-authorisation is, for the truly desperate, usually the only real option.”
Professor James Hathaway, international refugee law expert.
@ marshall hughes - Gary Morgan is quoted as saying Morgan Gallup prefers face-to-face over telephone polling as: “Telephone surveys measure the mood of the electorate rather than the way people would truly vote [if asked face-to-face] if an election was held at that time.”
As far as sampling is concerned, the actual numbers polled (1162 vs the 1500 that you suggest) are not terribly relevant to the result.
But they do become relevant as long as that sample of polled electors contains a statistically relevant sample of them (electors not citizens) across all relevant age groups and across all relevant electorates.
Not often is their methodology published for each coys fortnightly poll making it difficult for us “watchers” to see what methodology was applied to what poll during what period.
Control freak Kevin Rudd sounds rather disingenuous in saying he doesn’t have the detail etc about the Viking issue. He would be getting hourly updates from his staff. The thing that has worried me about this issue is the ‘rabbit in the headlights’ look Rudd has when questoned about it. It raises the spectre of how would he really cope with a genuine and serious threat to our security? He may sound confident talking about domestic issues and soft diplomacy but the jury must be out on his ability in dealing with external issues. Alex
Liz45
Nothing wrong with a “bleeding heart” if it’s attached to a good mind. It’s the “bleeding bowels” on the right that have the problem, they have small minds and all are bloody turds.
Krudd is emulating the Rodent every day, in every way. “What didn’t he know, and when didn’t he know it?”
I, like alot of people are disenchated with Rudd. I didn’t vote for him, but I didn’t dislike him either. He is the most politicised political politician’s polly in the history of this planet.
The guy has not made one hard decision and the only hard decision he made was on the asylum seekers was one big ‘f**k up’, I stagger to comprehend his support and often question the validity of the polls.
Did he make the right decision for Australia on the asylum seekers? dunno, but if you have ever viewed readers comments on perhaps the ‘common peoples’ website http://www.news.com.au, you would be excused if you thought that the best option was to send a torpedo towards it.
I don’t understand Aussies at the best of times, we can rally towards most causes i.e bushfires, tsunamis etc, but when it comes to helping these poor people we turn into racist animals. Some, not all but I suspect that the ‘some’ is a very very large sample.
I am actually starting to warm towards Turnbull and think that if he can keep his house in order he may actually start to win some support!
THE DUKE: But everyone who reads the comments on the various threads of Crikey has had your opinion drummed into them, whether requested or not!
Can you really vote for someone on just one issue? One would have hoped that the readers of Crikey had a slightly more rounded opinion, something with a few layers to it. Dare I suggest, a bit more depth?
I agree that Rudd hasn’t appeared to perform well, but there may be more method to the madness than first appears. From a cold hard political point of view, there are many good options for him on this issue. He can’t go Howard on boat people, since he’d risk losing the wet Liberal vote that got sick of Howards hard lines on boat people, industrial relations, indigenous issues etc. Those voters would simply move back to their natural base if the apparent distinction between the parties on those issues was lost.
On the other hand, Rudd also knows he can’t ‘be soft’ on the issue (to use the appalling terminology of the zeitgeist) since he’ll lose some of the outer suburbian vote previously dubbed ‘Howard’s Battlers’. The union run anti-Work Choices campaign delivered many of them back to Labor, but this remains an issue as much as we’d like to tell ourselves we are much more ‘sophisticated’ than we were in regards to the Tampa etc.
Really, on a purely political level, there is very little than Rudd can actually be seen to be doing that will gain him anything, and much that can be lost. To me it’s no surprise that the rhetoric is mixed (hardline but humane) and Rudd is keeping his hands as free of this as possible. I’m sure this indecisive inaction has lost him some support, but I’m not at all convinced that it lost him more than he would of following any particular decisive approach.
I’m sure Rudd is far better briefed on National opinion than those of us that rely on Newspoll, Morgan, Nielsen and Essential (and Possum to tell us what it all means!) and as far as I can see his actions (and calculated inactions) have remained as carefully chosen to keep his standing as high as possible as ever.
oops, second sentence should read “there are NOT many good options”…
Surely it must strike you all as a bit odd that one of the Australia’s leading barristers, a QC with a history as a dragon slayer, can’t put together a case against a career public servant.
Start by asking yourselves what they have in common? They are both globalists. I believe that they both regard the UN as the final authority over any national government. They both talk about a New World Order. They both seem inclined towards an education system that turns out “human capital” for global employers rather than critical thinkers. They appear willing to ratify any direction emanating from (in my view) corrupt and moribund UN agencies such as WHO, UNESCO, IMF and World Bank to name a few. Both are elites who operate outside the normal sphere . Therefore, reluctantly I am forced to conclude that the present Liberal leader is just selling the blows the present PM seems to be able to land at will?
There may be others in the party who think the same, as evidenced by their reluctance to go along with the latest global taxation scam called the ETS. No one that smart could act that inept for so long without a script; in my sceptical view.
well put Bogdanovist, I tend to agree with you.
Is it possible that Rudd can actually get through his first term without making an effective hard decision? his procrastination on the ‘boat people’ issue was quite concerning for me.
I’ll give him credit, he has been proactive on the symbolic side, but I can’t really think of any quality hard decisions he has made off the top of my head.
For Rudd to follow ‘verbatim’ what the IMF and World Bank have had to say just illustrates how vote hungry he actually is. To think that those 2 independent bodies supposedly knew ‘what was best’ for Australia more than the Government, is very very concerning!
Greg Angelo: “I know nothing!” was made famous by Sgt Schultz, not Manuel.
The Duke: Neither the World Bank nor the IMF are UN agencies. At any rate they (in particular the IMF) are a foundational part of the old World Order, not a new one.
I liked what Phil said so much I must quote it here…”The only thing drowning in the asylum seeker issue is the Aussie media. Like most thinking people I’ve had a gut full of the coverage from a bunch of lazy try hards. Or is it just hysterical rightwing journo’s with more sh!t up their nose, probably both. All I can see are coalition turds bobbing around in sea of drowning journos and guess what. It stinks. “
I mean what is a PM of a nation supposed to do when people fleeing a war in which Australia is currently fighting and losing lives and a nation torn by civil war for decades, which is directly over the Indian Ocean from us, sail towards this country?
It was a forgone conclusion that the people on the Oceanic Viking would come off without military action. That is a plus for PM Rudd.
Howard sent in the SAS, to virtually hijack those rescued on the Tampa. And yet Kevin Rudd at an earlier stage was being attacked as inhumane by some of Howard’s own former ministers, for not allowing those aboard to go to Christmas Island. Now that he has offered processing within the limits set by Australian Immigration, Turnbull is accusing him of opening the door for others to flood in and of offering special treatment! Too bad that they weren’t taken to Christmas Island. That seems to have gone unnoticed. Rudd is simply damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. And the media cannot display “patience” when hype, hysteria and hyperbole are all they know and deal in!
I mean it’s not as if Rudd is personally escorting the increasing number of boats (still hardly a flood that comes any where near those flying in daily!). What was he supposed to do? Some in the Coalition or allied to them, like Port Augusta Mayor Beluch and Port Lincoln Mayor Peter Davis, during the Ruddock years, were suggesting that the boats should be used for navy target practise. Australia yawned at the time. No commentators went out on a limb for humanity and said how utterly grotesque and inhuman it was.
For God’s sake Rudd is no-where near that!
Australia has to simply accept the fact that there are more people seeking asylum at the moment coming by boat than in the recent past, although not as many as at the turn of the century. We have to not rush about like headless chooks, “managing things”, but deal with this reality with humanity and decency.
Any rush back to”deal with the issue” (as if it can just be managed by media) which returns us to the inhumane, draconian and utterly heinous methods used by Ruddock and Howard will not be in our own interests as a nation nor will it be good for people who are recognised as refugees and deserve to be granted asylum by a signatory of the Geneva Refugee Protocols and Conventions, nor will it do our international reputation (and tourism) still suffering from the previous decade, any good at all.
That’s quite a bit for any PM to juggle. Kevin Rudd deserves some praise for what he is doing and some recognition that not everyone is going to be happy with his decisions ands actions least of all “The australian” and the Murdoch media gang.
But a lot more people are happy with HIS rather than with HOWARD’S way! And they certainly don’t want to see any return to it. Witness the public response to Turnbull’s appalling. nauseating and retrograde return to TPV’s. Is that supposed to be an example of his new ways of dealing with the problem. And where were the Opposition when TPV’s were thrown out? They are pissing in the wind and it isn’t pretty to watch or be caught in.
Caf,
Couldn’t agree more, the IMF is definitely part of the old world order.
Cliff,
I think the point with Rudd is that he umm’d and rrr’d about where he stood and what he was going to do. He couldn’t make a decision and that reflected poorly on him as our leader.
I’m not sure about your later comment saying that people are happy with his way rather than Howards way is absolutely true. Some readers comments posted on news.com are repulsive and in fact, I’d say that most of the readers comments do not want to see them set foot on Aussie soil.
Phil
Posted Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
Indeed!
CLIFFG - Yes, but the point is, that Rudd with his high popularity, an Opposition in disarray had the opportunity to take the wind out of the sails of first the media(the likes of who Phil so eloquently indicated)then the opposition(who’ve been treated likewise). He had the floor. He could’ve taken the initiative via an address to the nation; told the people the facts(truths), bowled over the myths and bull shit, and then proceeded to act like a leader, with decency and humanity. He chose not to!
VENISE - I agree with you about the ‘god botherer’ aspect. It’s nauseating isn’t it? God and country and ‘serving’ the people, or should I say, ‘serving it up to the people’?
THE DUKE - Rudd and Turnbull are responsible for the revolting people on news.com - they’ve given them ‘oxygen’ to air their hateful comments. I won’t be adding to my depression by reading them. Been there, done that - before!
As for the World Bank and the IMF. Take a look at what happened to every country these pack of bastards have interfered with. Loans with impossible interest rates that they knew would keep them bankrupt and in the pocket of corporate america, for as long as they wished. Argentina and other countries in the area. Take a look at ‘The Fourth World War’?
I think not! The IMF has been anointed by the G20 as the likely initiator of the new world currency mooted as a version of the current SDR’s which the G20 so generously funded to the tune of several hundred billion dollars a coupleof G20’s ago. The speculation is around whether there will be gold and commodities behind the new currency or whether it will simply be another fiat currency based on hot air and hope and enforced by some global army - probably NATO - I think we are joining that lot pretty soon. That all sounds pretty NWO to me ha! ha!
Duke,
I don’t put much store on “The Australian” Letters page. I’ve tried many times to get a letter published but their policy has tightened significantly. I have had many published in the past, but none this year on this issue! “The Australian” clearly has a policy now of acting as a surrogate for the ineffective Opposition. A recent letter was published saying how good that is. The “Letters” editor appeared on Q and A and was just a little right of Attila the Hun! And “The Australian’s” readers are getting tired of the only national newspaper being so partisan. It’s circulation has taken a hit recently.
The assumption in the poll drop was that people wanted Rudd to be “tougher”, but there is a body of opinion which believes that there were a number of people dissatisfied with Rudd’s approach because he wasn’t “soft” (i.e. humane) enough. The flip back this week seems to suggest that was the case, as it is reflected in Turbull’s fall, with the re-introduction of TPV’s. So it’s not just about “too tough” or the Right’s opinions, but also the disappointed Left.
Didn’t the fact that Howard lost his seat and government mean Australians were tired of his draconian policies?
Cheers
we should link SDR’s to some sort of honesty system with Sir Les Patteson presiding over the integrity of the exchange, imagine that!
we should also appoint the IMF as the leader of Australia and most definitely, scrap the RBA.
Only joking.
quite possibly Cliff although I could not care less about Howard, Rudd, Keating, Hawke, Fraser or any of those guys these days. All disappointments, liers and I have lost hope. Big business is far too involved in the governing of the country.
IF Kevin Rudd thought he was going to pull off a bit of boatpeople diplomacy when the Jaya Lestari hove into view on intelligence screens a month-and-a-half ago, he’s undoubtedly regretting the decision now.
The Indonesian navy’s capture of the Jaya Lestari was supposed to be a coming-together between Canberra and Jakarta on the people-smuggling issue.
Indonesian cabinet documents show that Australian officials had specifically asked their counterparts on October 9 to seize the craft “to send a clear message to people-smugglers”.
They had been aware of the wooden cargo vessel for a week, since it left Malaysian waters near Johor Baru with 255 Sri Lankan asylum-seekers on board.
A day after that formal request, the Prime Minister brought the matter up in a phone call with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. The detail of that conversation was then leaked in Australia, by way of showing what great work the two leaders were doing on the issue.
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Just over a week later, Rudd was in Jakarta for Yudhoyono’s inauguration, this time with another personal favour to ask: would Indonesia deal with a second boatload of 78 Sri Lankans that had been taken on board the Oceanic Viking in international waters south of Sumatra. Which is where the deal began to unravel.
Yudhoyono said yes, but his advisers insisted on a face-saving approach. They seized on the “humanitarian issue” of an ill child on board needing urgent medical attention.
That excuse proved to be a furphy but it worked in deflecting domestic criticism that Jakarta was kow-towing to Canberra.
In fact, Australia was, by this point, locked into doing things Indonesia’s way - so its first request, to drop the 78 off at the nearest port on the south coast of Java, was knocked back, and the Oceanic Viking eventually was directed to Tanjung Pinang, deep in Indonesian territory.
And for three weeks it has sat, heaving on the swell of the South China Sea, with its Tamil cargo gambling they could roll the dice and win - the stakes being Australian citizenship - so long as they stared Rudd down.
Rudd tried to deflect his own domestic political concerns by making assurances such as the one that the 10 women and children on board would be put up in community housing, rather than in the Australian-funded detention centre in Tanjung Pinang.
Nonsense, said Indonesian officials, who said if it was good enough for Australia to build the facility, it should be good enough for Australia to accept its use.
The circuit-breaker was an offer written in Tamil on Immigration Department letterhead, promising an expedited processing of refugee claims.
Twenty-two Sri Lankans on board the Oceanic Viking took the deal last Friday; they can expect to be in Australia within a month.
The remaining 56 are due to disembark today - leaving only those on the Jaya Lestari at its dock in western Java holding out, hoping against all possibility they might get something even remotely similar.
They won’t. After the Oceanic Viking debacle, Indonesia hasn’t the slightest interest in any further special deals. And Rudd must know he can’t afford any.
Bogdanovist: “Really, on a purely political level, there is very little than Rudd can actually be seen to be doing that will gain him anything, and much that can be lost … can’t go Howard on boat people … he can’t be soft on the issue …”
There was a path between the horns of the dilemma, if only he could see it. He could have declared himself a man of principle, then stuck to his principles, and dished out his banal “absolutely no apology for that.”
That’s why he was elected after all, and so popular for so long. People thought he was a man of principle.
A WOFTAM carbon plan and a boatload of homeless people have shown that to be a bit of a crock.
James, I suspect we are in furious agreement about what Rudd should have done (and still could do). I just disagree that this would have lead to a better political outcome for him and the Government. Those wanting a more humane approach (or perhaps simply a humane approach) aren’t going to jump to the Liberals as long as Labor remain marginally less hysterical on the issue, so there is no ground to be gained ‘on the left’, and much to be lost in the outer suburb vote by doing so. At the same time, Labor can’t match the Liberals ‘on the right’ or they will lose the small l liberal vote they picked up at the last election. Hence the middle ground do nothing approach.
I still think Rudd is showing his Machiavellian mastery of politics (in the purest sense of the term) rather than bungling the issue.
Too bad about the lives he is playing with though isn’t it.
MARILYN - Like you and others, it’s the playing around with peoples’ lives for the best ‘political outcome’ that makes me bloody angry and really sad. We’re supposed to be better than this - we boast of being better than this(govts that is)but they’re not. I wonder what would’ve happened to those people if it wasn’t for people like us? Bomb them, sink the boats? Scary thought! What if the rednecks were in charge - total charge? It’s tough enough looking into the eyes of the little ones in Gaza or Iraq or? - I never want to see them in this country ever again!
Anyone who watched ‘The Long Way Home’ on ABC TV last night will know what I mean when I refer to the ‘original sin’ component. Perhaps those who advocate cruel and inhumane treatment are just victims of ‘original sin’? (I nearly threw something at the TV - that bloke???) David Hill’s response was a mirror of mine! People at the Murdoch papers have the same effect on me? I’m with you Phil - excellent use of the language?
CliffG, that’s all very well, but Howard was at least honest about being a hawk not a dove. He brought matters to a head such that the people would be able to judge for themselves in the election. I don’t approve of what Howard stood for, but at least he had integrity.
It’s not Howard’s fault that Kim “me too” Beazley then tried to be more Howard than Howard and so cheated Australians of the chance to vote on moral issues.
Rudd is another matter. He attempted to depict himself as a sort of dove with defensive claws, and to lend an appearance of compassion to some very questionable methods. In a way that’s more dangerous than anything Howard did.
Rudd attempted to outsource not only the handling of boat people, but all the moral choices too, to another country outside the Refugee Convention. Whether Indonesia is less humane than us or more humane, is beside the point. It’s an act of Pontius Pilate cowardice.
It potentially opens the door for more acts like the alleged sabotage of SIEV X by Australian and Indonesian government agents, hidden from the public view, and like the outsourcing of the Bali Nine arrests to a country known to use a different burden of proof in criminal trials as well as capital punishment, just because Australia cannot.
It opens the door for more Australian dirty work to be handed to another Suharto in the future, if such a person should gain control of Indonesia once more, or to any other convenient neighboring country. There is no qualitative difference between this and the United States practice of “rendering” interrogation subjects to third-party countries for torture, before they had their own torture program.
Rudd’s attempted solution tended to make all this respectable, whether or not he really thought it through. Presumably he did not think it through, which makes him rash and dangerous.
The outcome of this farce solves no problems except those of one group of 78 people. And introduces three problems we didn’t have before:
1) There’s now a perception that Australia is amenable to blackmail
2) We have lost enormous face in the eyes of the Indonesians, to the extent of cancelling a state visit
3) Other asylum seekers in detention, who are not being fast-tracked, are now feeling justifiably aggrieved
james mcdonald you say…”We have lost enormous face in the eyes of the Indonesians, to the extent of cancelling a state visit”….why then did a spokesperson for the Indonesian President deny the refugees were the reason for the change of date for the visit? as reported on Sky News, ABC News. Are we to assume on your say so, the Indonesian President is a liar?
In Asia it would be atrocious manners to say openly that someone has lost face. To cancel the visit for other reasons is equivalent to an Anglo person saying “I’m terribly sorry but I have an engagement.” Would you demand proof of an Anglo person claiming an engagement, and call him a liar?
Macca we are talking about the official visit of the President of Indonesia, not an invitation to a 21st birthday piss up.
Your weak response is a poor attempt to justify your ascertian
Marvellous debating style Raymond. Perhaps we should make you our Ambassador.
Thankyou
“It’s tough enough looking into the eyes of the little ones in Gaza or Iraq or? - I never want to see them in this country ever again!” I should have added “behind razor wire”?
Marilyn, did you say that there are children locked up on Christmas Island, or are they ‘under house arrest’ in the ‘community’ (detention homes?)? They should be in a neighbourhood somewhere, going to school or playing with other kdis etc - after health checks of cours - which takes a few days???