http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23912.htm

You furnish the evidence that there’s amazing good things going on in the NT via the Intervention. And provide the facts, that John Pilger was wrong in his speech. Show me where all the countries he’s written about, made documentaries of and revealed horrific abuses about, including those of the US administration/s are all flourishing and rich countries, where the peoples are able to live a full life. Show me! And I include the approximately 500,000 aboriginal people in this country. You show me where the monies obtained from billions of dollars of recources have flowed or more importantly have been paid to them, and not multinational companies, and a pittance in comparison to govt/s. Show me!

There are many who have lost their rights and funding and provisions, including those on CDEP - growing food was stopped due to this. Where’s all the men who are supposed to be abusing kids, and how many have been arrested, charged and convicted. According to Howard etc, it sounded like one in every house? Why did Jenny Macklin ignore that area that had raw sewerage around for weeks - could still be? Wouldn’t happen where I live- there’d be outrage and rightly so!

However, as someone has already commented, you are like Margot and pick on one aspect to nitpick on while avoiding the overall context. There are many individuals and communities in the NT who are outraged, hurt, angry, disappointed etc with the Rudd Govt’s continuing Howard and Brough’s paternalistic behaviour. You mention nothing of removing the Racial Discrimination Act; the quarantining of incomes(including people who are on a Veteran’s Pension, Aged Pensions etc. You didn’t repond to the ridiculous situation, of people having to pool their money and catch taxis to the nearest town/city to buy their groceries and other vitals at designated (by the govt that is) retail outlets, at the expense of closing down ‘corner stores’ closer to home, where they could buy some essentials in bulk! No, you’d rather pick on me or one aspect to rave about!

Margot mentioned, that if she wants to read of the Intervention she’d read David Marr and Nicholas Rothwell. No women I notice! I can’t see how you could get real stories if you don’t speak to the women in depth! They like me, would be more comfortable with women asking personal questions I should imagine! Didn’t you even read what Margot had to say?
I’m sick to death of pontificating people like you alleging that these ‘things’ are not simple; that they’re complex blah blah.(those comments were removed here, but they arrived at my email address?) The inference is clear ; ‘you’re not smart enough to be able to comprehend’ etc. The reasons for what’s going on in the NT is pretty simple - it was simple in 1788, 1888, 1988 and now - it’s called racism, neglect, paternalistic views, and corporate greed. Why are the aboriginal people in remote areas the most impoverished people in the country, when so much of the wealth has been on and under their land, and will continue to be so! When has the electronic media anyway, canvassed the issues in a constructive way? I mean without the background pictures and inferences that only perpetuate ingrained racist views, like those I described above?

As for what John’s reported in the rest of the world/ How many people do you know from Chile or El Salvador or ??? What the US has done and continues to do is appalling - all caused for corporate greed, particularly resources!

You failed to provide any discourse of your own. You’re also part of the problem - petty and nitpicking! I’ve been interested in indigenous issues for years. I’ve read reports, listened to people who know more than I - real people who are indigenous, not patronising whites! How many reports, individual’s experiences have you read? History?
I voted in the 1967 Referendum - I voted ‘yes’ and I try to reaffirm that every day since! How about you?

I’ve lost count of the awards that John Pilger has received over the years. How many have you won? Do you think you’ll ever be nominated for the Sydney Peace Prize, and if not, why not? Perhaps Margot could answer this question too?

[Edit - the issues, not other commenters please]

“The women who live near Uluru” have not lost “funding for their domestic violence program”: in fact funding for the NPY Women’s Council’s DV Program, which operates at Mutitjulu and many other Western Desert communites, has been greatly expanded in the last couple of years. As a result it has been able to employ its own lawyer as well as its manager, case managers and field officers. But as you point out, “This is not the only community treated thus!”
PS I am not aware that David Marr has been writing on the NTER, let alone visiting the NT, so I don’t understand why he has become a whipping boy in this discussion.

I’d guess not only John Pilger but an awful lot of Australians don’t have much time to trawl through blog sites.
And for those that do the trawling, how many people do you really think go through the more heavy, detailed ones? Check out those lovely newspaper websites and it’s mostly light, frothy, celeb, “funny old world” and sport stories.

The times you might read a piece from a genuine, fresh and alternate viewpoint in the daily papers are very rare.

I think Margot Saville’s fallen for the old “he doesn’t live in Australia, how dare he criticise it/us/me!!” line.

Actually Margot, you are correct in examining Pilger’s involvement with the ‘new media’ - but is it fair to revanche on his challenge to mainstream journalists - and there are some good ones - who are less and less engaged with the values of good journalism?

Pilger has been a good journalist. I think it is only fair to give him the space to comment on where hethinks good journalism is ‘at’ just now. (Which is not necessarily a critique of those journalists who did, and are engaging with on the ground coverage of what is happening in aboriginal communities right now).

Pilger, like Noam Chomsky, has the broader vision that may be tiresome because it is so obvious, and still so many avert their gaze.

Margot Saville: yep..this piece illustrates the reason you’re just another single issue Aussie hack…

“The criticisms which Saville offers are the same tired cliches that appear every time Pilger visits this country and makes a speech.” Hear! Hear!

I recall one time not that long ago, and John Pilger was on Lateline. I was disgusted with Tony Jone’s rudeness. I rarely watch him now. Between this episode; the hype he stirred up over the ‘need’ for the intervention in the NT, and too many others, I felt disgusted.
I also remember hearing about media bias, poor journalism etc and Australia was in the bottom 35%?

I’ve a mate who’s been following the media’s reporting of workers’ battles for example, for more years than I, and he’s pointed out, with physical evidence, that the media at best was guilty of gross misinformation, and in too many cases, blatant lies? Now why would that be? Could it be, that the media supports corporate greed over and above anything resembling decency and justice re incomes and equality?

As for the intervention. I have respect for David Marr, and I believe him to be a man of integrity, decency and compassion, but that doesn’t mean, that a couple of weeks or even months in the NT is sufficient for his opinion to be of more importance for example, than the women who live near Uluru, and without much money or support, have taken care of their community and particularly the women and children. These senior aboriginal women have been treated with indifference, rudeness and open discrimination, including losing funding for their domestic violence program. This is not the only community treated thus!

I don’t know of any man in the rest of the country, for example, who upon being arrested and charged on serious charges of sexual assault have lost their homes, their incomes and their human rights. Thanks to Howard/Brough and now Rudd and Macklin, every man in the NT has had his reputation sullied. Very few arrests let alone convictions have come to light. Where are they? Instead of fighting the causes of the ‘age gap’ they continue along the destructive path of blame, injustice and neglect. The media, to their eternal shame, have peddled this same nonsense. If you have to remove a group of peoples’ basic human rights, in order to achieve some ‘good’, you lose all respect. They haven’t convinced me! This is not the way to act when you utter, that ‘Little Children Are Sacred’! Good on John Pilger for telling it how it really is!

Pilger has written several books, made a number of documentaries, and written countless articles raising issues of universal concern. Most of which is ignored by the mainstream media. The criticisms which Saville offers are the same tired cliches that appear every time Pilger visits this country and makes a speech.

Why not look at the issues Pilger raises, including the relentless march of American imperialism, the deaths of millions of people in Asia, Africa and Latin America sacrificed to American capitalism and imperialism, the on-going illegal invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saville’s article represents the worst kind of Australian journalism, focusing on the trivial and ignoring the major issues. Whether or not one agrees with Pilger (and a lot of people obviously do) he represents an alternative voice that is almost totally lacking from Australian mainstream media.

Look back over his career and the issues he has highlighted. Can one honestly argue that Fairfax media or the Murdoch press have anything remotely approaching his track record in exposing abuses? Of course not. When the Australian media have the same courage and independence that Pilger has consistently shown throughout his career carping criticisms of the kind Saville makes will have more plausibility. I am not likely to live long enought to see that day.

I wonder why both Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell announced in (April?)2001, that Saddam Hussain was no threat to his neighbours, let alone the rest of us. I wonder why both the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration had meetings with the Taliban, where they were ‘entertained’ by those high up in both Administrations, re the wealth in their region. It was due to the Taliban’s refusal to agree to their demands re a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan for the $16 billion of oil and gas reserves, that in July they were threatened with a ‘carpet of gold’ via bombs lateer in the year? I wonder why there was only a couple of paragraphs in the SMH about the possible several thousand (alleged)Taliban who were killed by some of those who are now in the Afghan Parliament? Those survivors insisted, that people in US Military uniform were observing? Watch ‘Afghan Massacre’? Another journalist won an award for this documentary, which can be seen on the Internet. What made that US Military person, who’s also a Psychiatrist go crazy with 2 others with guns today - apparently, he was to go back to Iraq or Afghanistan, and didn’t want to go? I wonder why?
Put http://www.freedocumentaries.org into Google and watch others! Most enlightening! Some of John Pilgers are there too!

i was in the audience and particularly appreciated pilger’s attack on the foolish flag-wrapped nationalism and celebration of ‘blood sacrifice’ which has become cool for youth since howard’s era

let’s end the war - and use the tax revenue we save to fund health and education training and facilities in aboriginal communities in regional australia

or am i being too ‘simplistic’ and ‘cliched’ in making a suggestion like that?

and paul pearce, pilger has plenty of australian heroes, so what is it he ‘knocks’?

These are just two articles I received today via Information Clearing House. I can say without fear of contradiction, that I won’t be hearing about them or reading them in any form by Australian journalists!

Former UK Ambassador: CIA Sent People to be ‘Raped with Broken Bottles’
By Daniel Tencer http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23906.htm

EXCLUSIVE: Convicted CIA Spy Says “We Broke the Law”
By MATTHEW COLE, AVNI PATEL, and BRIAN ROSS
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23902.htm

All we get via the news(with a few remarkable differences) are the political reports from the perspective of ‘our alies’ - not the facts. Journalists didn’t question Howard/Bush/Blair re Iraq or Afghanistan. I found out about ‘The Downing Street Memo’ via the internet. I watched the videos about the Bush Administration on SBS - not put together by Australian journalists. I read about the questions being raised re 9/11 from books or AlterNet or Information Clearing House or John Pilger. - The news, current affairs etc with the exception of Frontline or Robert Greenwald or Robert Fisk and others did not cover the neo-con’s goal of global domination. Read, Project for a New American Century, and I still haven’t heard the truth about Afghanistan & Iraq re the quest for oil in Iraq, and a pipeline through Afghanistan for the $16 Trillions worth in the Caspian Sea. I didn’t hear or read via our media, that the Bush Administration told the Taliban and Pakistan that they intended bombing Afghanistan in October 2001- this was decreed in July 2001, prior to 9/11. I had to read and hear these things in a selection of newspapers, articles, essays or books initiated outside this country. There’s one major remarkable exception - GreenLeft - and articles from John Pilger! Alan Ramsay questioned Howard regularly in his weekly articles, but sadly, he’s retired!

I read articles in the National Indigenous Times, which are the realities of the aboriginal people themselves, not white journalists. I have a great deal of admiration for David Marr(who incidently wrote the truth about the Tampa via Dark Victory - I still haven’t read any indepth reports from any other journalists - they were in Howard’s ‘pocket’ the bloody lot of them - if not, he cast them aside?). He’s one of a few journalists with integrity. I’ve also read both of Margo Kingston’s “Not Happy John” and “Still not happy John”. Not many others, and I certainly won’t even read a hint of this in any Murdoch paper?

The intervention is 2 yrs old, and the Rudd govt is still operating with the same patronising, paternalistic and racist attitudes of Howard/Brough & Co!. There’s too much emphasis on what Noel Pearson has to say as opposed to the aboriginal people who insist on being heard, or who won’t comply with racist dogma - the quarantine of incomes has not helped the majority - it’s just caused more ‘trouble’ for those in remote areas, who have to pay huge amounts in taxi fares to do their shopping. The people living in houses in the camps that Jenny Macklin wants them out of were ‘notified’ by notices pinned to fences, front doors or posts? These people have been forced into the courts in order to receive justice that non-indigenous people would demand - and the media would support them. Even though history has shown, that if you don’t involve people in decision making processes, the whole thing is a flop. So what is the Rudd govt doing? Imposing laws and policies on them from above!
Tell me what part of this behaviour is new?

Why is almost every TV news item about the intervention accompanied by the same old footage - aboriginal people in parks who are drunk? Aboriginal people in remote communities that have been forgotten by successive govts for decades? You watch from today on and see for yourself? Where are all the paedophiles and rapists Howard and Brough alluded to? How many arrests have there been? They almost accused every aboriginal man of being an abuser. The alleged white perpetrators of sexual assaults of 20-30 yrs ago (at a school in NSW) who’ve recently been arrested and charged, have not lost their homes? They’ve not had their incomes cut in half? Why the different treatment in the Northern Territory? If you think it’s OK, then you’re part of the problem; certainly not part of the solution. There’s lots of new Toyota’s being driven around by public servants and other paid government people - not much has changed on the ground!

If non-aboriginal kids were suffering from Rheumatic Fever as the result of poor sanitation, inadequate housing etc, there’d be an outcry, and rightly so. This disease was almost wiped out after WW2 in non-indigenous areas with better housing and sanitation. The health of indigenous people has been a national disgrace for too many decades. Being an apologist for successive govts is a disgrace! Sadly, too many journalists have been complicit in either ignoring this, or permeating racism that turned the masses off, or caused even more antagonism between black and white! With all due respect to David Marr and the other journalist, it’s patronising to assert, that a couple of white folk who spend a few days, weeks or even months visiting up north, represent the reality of sadly, too many aboriginal peoples’ neglected and repressed lives! I think it’s a damned cheek on your part!

Whether it’s been El Salvador, Chile, Diego Garcia, Venezuela, indigenous Australians; the horrors of Gaza or Vietnam, John Pilger presented these and many other shameful parts of history passionately, accurately and with integrity. He earned his Sydney Peace Prize and the many other awards he’s received over the years! How many can you boast of?

Your words have just epitomised everything that is wrong with Australian journalists. You’ve just reinforced John Pilger’s just and accurate criticisms!

I resent being likened to a Scientologist - yes I was there - and I question whether Margot has been to visit those towns and communities in the Northern Territory to inform her own critical views. Not enough canapes to make the trip worthwhile perhaps?

The front row was filled with the people most affected by indigenous policies in Australia, and they were the first to stand. It was enough to suggest he had felt and expressed the frustrations of those ‘intervened’ upon. The National Indigenous Times should be heard on this too - http://www.nit.com.au/

I don’t live in Balmain or attend UTS ,and I don’t wear Birkenstocks. But I do recommend next time Margot takes the ferry. Maybe it will blow away all those unfortunate cobwebs and she’ll be better able to find her way back home.

Averil Bones

Ther have actually been half a dozen stories about this on Crikey, so it hasn’t actually been shrouded in obscurity.