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	<title>Comments on: Ghosts of SIEV X still shadow the corridors of power</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/</link>
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		<title>By: james mcdonald</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41734</link>
		<dc:creator>james mcdonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41734</guid>
		<description>Yes, he has that &quot;trust me, I&#039;m an intellectual, I know what I&#039;m doing and I&#039;d explain it to you if I thought you&#039;d understand&quot; way about him.

Except that he&#039;s not an intellectual, his understanding of most public affairs would barely pass muster in any self-respecting uni bar conversation (at least back when I was at uni, and students didn&#039;t spend all their leisure time comparing features on their iphones), and the only time he really knows what he&#039;s doing is when he is sticking it to the opposition. Which is why he spends so much time doing exactly that; it&#039;s his comfort zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, he has that &#8220;trust me, I&#8217;m an intellectual, I know what I&#8217;m doing and I&#8217;d explain it to you if I thought you&#8217;d understand&#8221; way about him.</p>
<p>Except that he&#8217;s not an intellectual, his understanding of most public affairs would barely pass muster in any self-respecting uni bar conversation (at least back when I was at uni, and students didn&#8217;t spend all their leisure time comparing features on their iphones), and the only time he really knows what he&#8217;s doing is when he is sticking it to the opposition. Which is why he spends so much time doing exactly that; it&#8217;s his comfort zone.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Hobba</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41720</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Hobba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41720</guid>
		<description>ok thanks Tom, --- understood and fully agree</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok thanks Tom,&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;- understood and fully agree</p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41717</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41717</guid>
		<description>Ah yairs, explained elsewhere on the comment strings here, only recently though.

Back on early election when Rudd was questioned on Tasmanian forests, and Michael O&#039;Connor was appointed onto the national ALP execuitive from Forestry union within CFMEU (having condoned violent union protests against anti logging folks), Rudd said to the effect of:

We will decide forests on the &quot;science&quot;.

But over 100 best biologists wrote a letter Howard as PM prior to 2004 election where Latham flamed out, saying in clear language most of that forest should be saved. It was hard to reference but I found the list, first linked to defunct Earthbeat, also published by me at the time.

But Rudd didn&#039;t follow the science. He is a, and I mean this in a front bar room and also legal technical sense, a big f*cking liar. The forests policy fraughtness is emblematic of Rudd on king coal climate (iCoal 2.0 indeed, as per Get Up).

So there we have it Kevin &quot;Science&quot; Rudd. A logical hook for him as an accomplished academic to grab at, his default rhetorical indeed. But when he said it under pressure in an interview, it was without sincerity or conviction. He is thus hoist on his own hook/petard. Science is a purely ironic term. 

The fact he looks like a walking lab coat only amuses more even more. It&#039;s a slow fuse this tag and joke. But it bears repeating, repeating, repeat ........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yairs, explained elsewhere on the comment strings here, only recently though.</p>
<p>Back on early election when Rudd was questioned on Tasmanian forests, and Michael O&#8217;Connor was appointed onto the national ALP execuitive from Forestry union within CFMEU (having condoned violent union protests against anti logging folks), Rudd said to the effect of:</p>
<p>We will decide forests on the &#8220;science&#8221;.</p>
<p>But over 100 best biologists wrote a letter Howard as PM prior to 2004 election where Latham flamed out, saying in clear language most of that forest should be saved. It was hard to reference but I found the list, first linked to defunct Earthbeat, also published by me at the time.</p>
<p>But Rudd didn&#8217;t follow the science. He is a, and I mean this in a front bar room and also legal technical sense, a big f*cking liar. The forests policy fraughtness is emblematic of Rudd on king coal climate (iCoal 2.0 indeed, as per Get Up).</p>
<p>So there we have it Kevin &#8220;Science&#8221; Rudd. A logical hook for him as an accomplished academic to grab at, his default rhetorical indeed. But when he said it under pressure in an interview, it was without sincerity or conviction. He is thus hoist on his own hook/petard. Science is a purely ironic term. </p>
<p>The fact he looks like a walking lab coat only amuses more even more. It&#8217;s a slow fuse this tag and joke. But it bears repeating, repeating, repeat &#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: james mcdonald</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41672</link>
		<dc:creator>james mcdonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41672</guid>
		<description>And to be clear, I say &quot;to a different drum&quot; with admiration, not detraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to be clear, I say &#8220;to a different drum&#8221; with admiration, not detraction.</p>
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		<title>By: james mcdonald</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41671</link>
		<dc:creator>james mcdonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41671</guid>
		<description>Leigh: I&#039;m also mystified as to why Tom nicknames Rudd as &quot;Science&quot; but I agree with him on the rest. Rudd is more strongman than any idealist, more streetfighter than intellect. Don&#039;t let the glasses and the nerdy demeanor fool you. Even his economic views were completely overturned to seize the initiative and to contrast with the opponent he nicknamed the &quot;member for Goldman Sachss&quot;.

But &quot;Science&quot;? We&#039;ll have to ask Tom about that one again when opportunity permits. Tom marches to a different drum but he picks up a lot that the rest of us miss, for example he was one of the first to figure out who &quot;Sharon Gould&quot; was in the Quadrant hoax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leigh: I&#8217;m also mystified as to why Tom nicknames Rudd as &#8220;Science&#8221; but I agree with him on the rest. Rudd is more strongman than any idealist, more streetfighter than intellect. Don&#8217;t let the glasses and the nerdy demeanor fool you. Even his economic views were completely overturned to seize the initiative and to contrast with the opponent he nicknamed the &#8220;member for Goldman Sachss&#8221;.</p>
<p>But &#8220;Science&#8221;? We&#8217;ll have to ask Tom about that one again when opportunity permits. Tom marches to a different drum but he picks up a lot that the rest of us miss, for example he was one of the first to figure out who &#8220;Sharon Gould&#8221; was in the Quadrant hoax.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Hobba</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41506</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Hobba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41506</guid>
		<description>can you pls explain &quot;science is a ..... etc&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>can you pls explain &#8220;science is a &#8230;.. etc&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41455</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41455</guid>
		<description>Come on, there is no question Science is a jellyback politician who will blow with the wind on the secret polling numbers regarding the 5-10% racist rump vote and his own electoral margin.

Indeed we saw his knee jerkery on abc tv news tonight. The guy is a news grab in search of a conviction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on, there is no question Science is a jellyback politician who will blow with the wind on the secret polling numbers regarding the 5-10% racist rump vote and his own electoral margin.</p>
<p>Indeed we saw his knee jerkery on abc tv news tonight. The guy is a news grab in search of a conviction.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Hobba</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41380</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Hobba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41380</guid>
		<description>Tony, I think you are being either optimistic or too polite! of course we are headed [again, now under Rudd] down the slope that Howard skied so enthusiastically.

(i) by not pursuing the truth regarding SIEVX Rudd&#039;s government is already complicit in the tragedy --- the excuse of realpolitik does not wash

(ii) Rudd&#039;s rabid language demonising the &#039;smugglers&#039; hides him behind a thin veil ---- the refugees are also implicitly targetted as collateral evils. It&#039;s what people used to desc ribe as a dog whistle when we heard this kind of stuff from Howard/Ruddock et al. I thought for a moment the other day that  in Rudd&#039;s usual ugly, extravagent and painfully contrived language we were about to hear him say that we will decide who comes here and when etc etc. 

(iii) If his real problem is with the smugglers and not the refugees he would be working with Indonesia not just to intercept the boats, but instead to speed up the latters&#039; almost interminable transit in our poorer neighbouring states

In any case, isn&#039;t the real and wider issue that here we sit on a massive + wealthy land mass and we appear unable to summon enough compassion to take into our nation a few hundred people fleeing from a situation verging on genocide??????? The heartlessness continues, and the orwellian abuse of language prevails!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, I think you are being either optimistic or too polite! of course we are headed [again, now under Rudd] down the slope that Howard skied so enthusiastically.</p>
<p>(i) by not pursuing the truth regarding SIEVX Rudd&#8217;s government is already complicit in the tragedy&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;- the excuse of realpolitik does not wash</p>
<p>(ii) Rudd&#8217;s rabid language demonising the &#8216;smugglers&#8217; hides him behind a thin veil&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;the refugees are also implicitly targetted as collateral evils. It&#8217;s what people used to desc ribe as a dog whistle when we heard this kind of stuff from Howard/Ruddock et al. I thought for a moment the other day that  in Rudd&#8217;s usual ugly, extravagent and painfully contrived language we were about to hear him say that we will decide who comes here and when etc etc. </p>
<p>(iii) If his real problem is with the smugglers and not the refugees he would be working with Indonesia not just to intercept the boats, but instead to speed up the latters&#8217; almost interminable transit in our poorer neighbouring states</p>
<p>In any case, isn&#8217;t the real and wider issue that here we sit on a massive + wealthy land mass and we appear unable to summon enough compassion to take into our nation a few hundred people fleeing from a situation verging on genocide??????? The heartlessness continues, and the orwellian abuse of language prevails!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Timmins</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41356</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Timmins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/15/ghosts-of-siev-x-still-shadow-the-corridors-of-power/#comment-41356</guid>
		<description>Tony, 
I&#039;m fearful that with Rudd&#039;s statements this week we are already going down the slippery slope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony,<br />
I&#8217;m fearful that with Rudd&#8217;s statements this week we are already going down the slippery slope.</p>
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