Comments on: Indian students and Immigration: a case of too many cooks … http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:11:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40157 Venise Alstergren Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:38:15 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40157 KERRY: So long as Australia keeps turning out 'men of religion' as politicians, so long will we be a totally f/ucked country. Short of starting an Atheist political party the country is buggered up-full on. KERRY: So long as Australia keeps turning out ‘men of religion’ as politicians, so long will we be a totally f/ucked country. Short of starting an Atheist political party the country is buggered up-full on.

]]> By: Bullmore's Ghost http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40095 Bullmore's Ghost Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:25:52 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40095 Immigration by stealth via student visas has long been out of control. I reckon the whole immigration system is a shambles and it has been since universities and "colleges" began touting madly for the rich pickings of overseas students. At a nearby university just about every Asian student is studying accountancy. I once remarked to a bunch of such students that the demand in Asia must be huge for accountants. None of them knew, nor cared -- after 2 years of full time study they are all seeking to get PR here whether they end up in long term accountancy jobs or not. Immigration by stealth via student visas has long been out of control. I reckon the whole immigration system is a shambles and it has been since universities and “colleges” began touting madly for the rich pickings of overseas students.

At a nearby university just about every Asian student is studying accountancy. I once remarked to a bunch of such students that the demand in Asia must be huge for accountants. None of them knew, nor cared — after 2 years of full time study they are all seeking to get PR here whether they end up in long term accountancy jobs or not.

]]> By: Jackon Taylor http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40007 Jackon Taylor Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:22:15 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-40007 Daiskmeliadorn> Cooks and hairdressers are not included on the CSL. The CSL is restricted almost entirely to, in my summary, biomedical professionals and engineeers. A few assorted professionals are there and the only tradespeople are gas fitters and tilers. See http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/critical-skills-list.pdf Greg> The problem is that Australia has had a skills shortage for a significant period and requires a number of skilled employees to fill that gap. DIAC and DEEWR believe, in my opinion, that the Australia education system has the capacity to train people to the skill level required to fill those roles. While this may be true in some situations the lack of oversight on private colleges and the use of fraudulent documents has detracted from this. Also, as pointed out by Afoxrussell, many individuals complete training for these roles without any intention to complete the course. It is possible to say that this demonstrates your point but I think your point applies less to doctors, dentists, solicitors or other professionals than hairdressers, cooks and horticulturalists. The real problem was allowing the trade occupations into the Graduate Student programs. Daiskmeliadorn>
Cooks and hairdressers are not included on the CSL. The CSL is restricted almost entirely to, in my summary, biomedical professionals and engineeers. A few assorted professionals are there and the only tradespeople are gas fitters and tilers. See http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/critical-skills-list.pdf

Greg>
The problem is that Australia has had a skills shortage for a significant period and requires a number of skilled employees to fill that gap. DIAC and DEEWR believe, in my opinion, that the Australia education system has the capacity to train people to the skill level required to fill those roles. While this may be true in some situations the lack of oversight on private colleges and the use of fraudulent documents has detracted from this. Also, as pointed out by Afoxrussell, many individuals complete training for these roles without any intention to complete the course.

It is possible to say that this demonstrates your point but I think your point applies less to doctors, dentists, solicitors or other professionals than hairdressers, cooks and horticulturalists. The real problem was allowing the trade occupations into the Graduate Student programs.

]]> By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39999 Venise Alstergren Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:02:21 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39999 Geoff Maslen: Very informative. All of which makes Australia the country that America used to be. Pity about the fragile ecosystems of our land, an even greater pity about most State's lack of water. Or how to f/uck up a wonderful country by allowing open slather to immigration and encouraging people to have multiple pregnancies. Congratulations to all the politicians of the past, present and future who have rendered Oz to this pitiful state. Geoff Maslen: Very informative. All of which makes Australia the country that America used to be.

Pity about the fragile ecosystems of our land, an even greater pity about most State’s lack of water. Or how to f/uck up a wonderful country by allowing open slather to immigration and encouraging people to have multiple pregnancies.

Congratulations to all the politicians of the past, present and future who have rendered Oz to this pitiful state.

]]> By: Adam Dunsford http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39983 Adam Dunsford Tue, 06 Oct 2009 04:23:28 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39983 What is the largest number of foreigners in Australian colleges and universities? The 2nd does sound a little petty. What is the largest number of foreigners in Australian colleges and universities? The 2nd does sound a little petty.

]]> By: Greg Angelo http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39960 Greg Angelo Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:25:18 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39960 There is no reason why anybody undertaking training in Australia should qualify for permanent residency. Using shonky colleges and separate courses as a backdoor migration facility is clearly understood but effectivelyignored by immigration and education authorities because of the economic stimulus arising from the training being provided. We should be clear and upfront with all students and once they complete their training they must leave the country, and should apply for migration status outside the country not as de facto migrants within the country. There is no reason why anybody undertaking training in Australia should qualify for permanent residency. Using shonky colleges and separate courses as a backdoor migration facility is clearly understood but effectivelyignored by immigration and education authorities because of the economic stimulus arising from the training being provided.

We should be clear and upfront with all students and once they complete their training they must leave the country, and should apply for migration status outside the country not as de facto migrants within the country.

]]> By: afoxrussell http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39958 afoxrussell Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:24:10 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39958 I'm married to a Thai, and can tell you they have been running the same scams for a long time. People come out and enrol in the cheapest course possible (its essentially a visa fee of a different name), and then go to work in the restaurants, factories, brothels etc. I’m married to a Thai, and can tell you they have been running the same scams for a long time. People come out and enrol in the cheapest course possible (its essentially a visa fee of a different name), and then go to work in the restaurants, factories, brothels etc.

]]> By: daiskmeliadorn http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39956 daiskmeliadorn Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:23:05 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/06/indian-students-and-immigration-a-case-of-too-many-cooks/#comment-39956 I have heard Bob Birrel make the claim that "Cooks and hairdressers are no longer listed as critical skills by the Immigration Department" a number of times, but have not seen this anywhere else - including the Depatment's website, although it is something of a labyrinth, so i might just be lost. Does anyone have a link to some kind of evidence of this? 'Cook' seems to be still listed in the "Skilled Occupation List (SOL) and Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL)", available <a href="http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a> [pdf] I have heard Bob Birrel make the claim that “Cooks and hairdressers are no longer listed as critical skills by the Immigration Department” a number of times, but have not seen this anywhere else - including the Depatment’s website, although it is something of a labyrinth, so i might just be lost.

Does anyone have a link to some kind of evidence of this?

‘Cook’ seems to be still listed in the “Skilled Occupation List (SOL) and Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL)”, available here [pdf]

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