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	<title>Comments on: A tale of two tablets</title>
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	<description>now with extra source</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-40111</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-40111</guid>
		<description>GGM, all excellent points. Thank you. You make a very strong case for why neither company will bring out a device aimed at the eReader market.

However, if that&#039;s the case then technology blogs (this article included) need to stop casting Apple and Microsoft&#039;s new devices as &quot;Kindle Killers&quot; that are primarily aimed at &quot;reading digital books, newspapers and magazines&quot;. I agree, I think their target is hand-held video and flashy content, in which case its a (slightly) different market they&#039;re after.

And I agree with Altakoi. There is a market for a well-made eReader, and Kindle isn&#039;t it. I was hoping that we&#039;d see a strong competitor emerge from one of these big players, but it looks unlikely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GGM, all excellent points. Thank you. You make a very strong case for why neither company will bring out a device aimed at the eReader market.</p>
<p>However, if that&#8217;s the case then technology blogs (this article included) need to stop casting Apple and Microsoft&#8217;s new devices as &#8220;Kindle Killers&#8221; that are primarily aimed at &#8220;reading digital books, newspapers and magazines&#8221;. I agree, I think their target is hand-held video and flashy content, in which case its a (slightly) different market they&#8217;re after.</p>
<p>And I agree with Altakoi. There is a market for a well-made eReader, and Kindle isn&#8217;t it. I was hoping that we&#8217;d see a strong competitor emerge from one of these big players, but it looks unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: Altakoi</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-39571</link>
		<dc:creator>Altakoi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-39571</guid>
		<description>All good reasons for it not being eInk, and ones I was not aware of. But, obstructions notwithstanding, if they want to get an eReader then I don&#039;t think a fancy screen package will do it. I think there is market for non-animated black and white media - popularly known as print - and the market is spectacularly failing to tap it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good reasons for it not being eInk, and ones I was not aware of. But, obstructions notwithstanding, if they want to get an eReader then I don&#8217;t think a fancy screen package will do it. I think there is market for non-animated black and white media - popularly known as print - and the market is spectacularly failing to tap it.</p>
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		<title>By: ggm</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-39553</link>
		<dc:creator>ggm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-39553</guid>
		<description>Whats wrong with eInk? well, its a bad fit for what they can build on. Its like asking IBM Selectric golfball typewriter makers to bring out an etch-a-sketch.

Firstly, eInk is slow to update. so, its useless for any video/animated content. But thats predominantly what both Apple and Microsoft&#039;s &quot;eye candy&quot; is designed to exploit. Neither has (good, recent) experience of running a really stripped back environment, Apples last attempt was the newton and they feel they got burned there, so its a strong negative to them: whats the differentiator if its not able to be at least as flashy as the iPhone?

Secondly, its only (at best) partly grayshade. its currently black or white, or a half-state. So you can drop resolution and do eg 4x4 grids to get 16 tones of gray, but its not even remotely high-resolution. Again, given what both Microsoft and Apple have shown themselves good at, this is an alien planet.

Thirdly, I believe the patents are locked to entities they don&#039;t talk to.  Its one thing to pay philips or the frauenhofer institute some tokenistic sum for MP3 licencing, but the cost of eInk rights would be massive on them. If not massive, not with people they already know and love. Why go there?

Fourthly, there isn&#039;t the installed production line base. There is next to no third party sources, the technology is immature, and yields will be low. Both companies like to make money as soon as they hit the ground: Microsoft just dug a huge P&amp;L hole in the Xbox 360, its underwater like you wouldn&#039;t believe. The Zune is a total loss. Apple is falling off the end of the iPod/iPhone surge, until China kicks in there is no growth there. you want to sell expensive, untried, slow, black-and-white paper-with-batteries?  -please close the door on the way out.

(the iPod they got FPGA&#039;s sourced from really smart people like Wolfson electronics in scotland. Second generation: they took the designs to Asia and got them made for 1/10 the cost. You can&#039;t do that with eInk yet can you?)

Fifthly, it doesn&#039;t leverage anything they have right now. it would be clean slate state. a bigger LCD panel of 10&quot; can leverage iTunes store for movies, content, it can get them into the movie revenue stream and bypass a sh*tload of problems because they will be paying DRM costs to the studios (who love them anyway) -It can leverage the music video space. All the iTunes-U stuff, talking books, it can steal revenue from google. Whats not to love about a 10&quot; colour, fast-updating graphical display? eInk will get them newspapers. and Print Media relationships but the money isn&#039;t nearly as good. Both news and publishers want to own the content and haven&#039;t yet had to deal with mass piracy. The Film and Music IPR owners are hungry for a relationship with Apple. They&#039;ll pay for better lock-in. Rupert still thinks he owns any industry sector he relates to, so I doubt he and Steve can talk mano-a-mano and walk away with a deal.

Oh yea. eInk isn&#039;t touch sensitive. You&#039;d need to layer that on top. Added cost.

I&#039;d love a good eInk device, open. I doubt if either Microsoft or Apple want to sell me one, and having used a Kindle, its not it either.

-G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats wrong with eInk? well, its a bad fit for what they can build on. Its like asking IBM Selectric golfball typewriter makers to bring out an etch-a-sketch.</p>
<p>Firstly, eInk is slow to update. so, its useless for any video/animated content. But thats predominantly what both Apple and Microsoft&#8217;s &#8220;eye candy&#8221; is designed to exploit. Neither has (good, recent) experience of running a really stripped back environment, Apples last attempt was the newton and they feel they got burned there, so its a strong negative to them: whats the differentiator if its not able to be at least as flashy as the iPhone?</p>
<p>Secondly, its only (at best) partly grayshade. its currently black or white, or a half-state. So you can drop resolution and do eg 4x4 grids to get 16 tones of gray, but its not even remotely high-resolution. Again, given what both Microsoft and Apple have shown themselves good at, this is an alien planet.</p>
<p>Thirdly, I believe the patents are locked to entities they don&#8217;t talk to.  Its one thing to pay philips or the frauenhofer institute some tokenistic sum for MP3 licencing, but the cost of eInk rights would be massive on them. If not massive, not with people they already know and love. Why go there?</p>
<p>Fourthly, there isn&#8217;t the installed production line base. There is next to no third party sources, the technology is immature, and yields will be low. Both companies like to make money as soon as they hit the ground: Microsoft just dug a huge P&amp;L hole in the Xbox 360, its underwater like you wouldn&#8217;t believe. The Zune is a total loss. Apple is falling off the end of the iPod/iPhone surge, until China kicks in there is no growth there. you want to sell expensive, untried, slow, black-and-white paper-with-batteries?  -please close the door on the way out.</p>
<p>(the iPod they got FPGA&#8217;s sourced from really smart people like Wolfson electronics in scotland. Second generation: they took the designs to Asia and got them made for 1/10 the cost. You can&#8217;t do that with eInk yet can you?)</p>
<p>Fifthly, it doesn&#8217;t leverage anything they have right now. it would be clean slate state. a bigger LCD panel of 10&#8221; can leverage iTunes store for movies, content, it can get them into the movie revenue stream and bypass a sh*tload of problems because they will be paying DRM costs to the studios (who love them anyway) -It can leverage the music video space. All the iTunes-U stuff, talking books, it can steal revenue from google. Whats not to love about a 10&#8221; colour, fast-updating graphical display? eInk will get them newspapers. and Print Media relationships but the money isn&#8217;t nearly as good. Both news and publishers want to own the content and haven&#8217;t yet had to deal with mass piracy. The Film and Music IPR owners are hungry for a relationship with Apple. They&#8217;ll pay for better lock-in. Rupert still thinks he owns any industry sector he relates to, so I doubt he and Steve can talk mano-a-mano and walk away with a deal.</p>
<p>Oh yea. eInk isn&#8217;t touch sensitive. You&#8217;d need to layer that on top. Added cost.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love a good eInk device, open. I doubt if either Microsoft or Apple want to sell me one, and having used a Kindle, its not it either.</p>
<p>-G</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-39524</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-39524</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why the eInk concept is being scorned by both companies? It always seemed ahead of its time in terms of overcoming the issue of sore eyes that arises from reading long passages on a luminescent screen. As someone who tries to read my daily Crikey email on my iPhone, I can verify that sore eyes continues to be one of the big barriers to the adoption of screen-based long form content.

Why have Apple and Microsoft both apparently decided it’s a non-issue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why the eInk concept is being scorned by both companies? It always seemed ahead of its time in terms of overcoming the issue of sore eyes that arises from reading long passages on a luminescent screen. As someone who tries to read my daily Crikey email on my iPhone, I can verify that sore eyes continues to be one of the big barriers to the adoption of screen-based long form content.</p>
<p>Why have Apple and Microsoft both apparently decided it’s a non-issue?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Altakoi</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-39503</link>
		<dc:creator>Altakoi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 06:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-39503</guid>
		<description>Unless its eInk, it would seem to be a slightly more comfortable screen to read on. And we already have those, really. 

Off topic a bit, what eReaders need is an effective way of pirating printed books. Just like the market did actually give us iPods until people had been illegally ripping CDs for years, we are never going to get affordable eInk until someone can circumvent DRM on eBooks. So rather than a ditto tablet, perhaps someone would like to design a consumer book scanner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless its eInk, it would seem to be a slightly more comfortable screen to read on. And we already have those, really. </p>
<p>Off topic a bit, what eReaders need is an effective way of pirating printed books. Just like the market did actually give us iPods until people had been illegally ripping CDs for years, we are never going to get affordable eInk until someone can circumvent DRM on eBooks. So rather than a ditto tablet, perhaps someone would like to design a consumer book scanner.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Ashley Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/a-tale-of-two-tablets/#comment-39492</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Ashley Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 05:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=90231#comment-39492</guid>
		<description>Microsoft is making an electronic book and Apple is making a really really big iPod Touch. Not that either have confirmed anything and this is complete speculation and the most time I have wasted today. Don&#039;t tell the boss, or the guy I work for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Microsoft is making an electronic book and Apple is making a really really big iPod Touch. Not that either have confirmed anything and this is complete speculation and the most time I have wasted today. Don&#8217;t tell the boss, or the guy I work for.</p>
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