<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Split in the professional education and research landscape</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:51:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kirk Broadhurst</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39297</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk Broadhurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39297</guid>
		<description>&quot;in any given school that overall scores higher than another school, there will be classes that perform worse than the best classes in the &quot;worse&quot; school. No doubt this is related to the often-reported trumping effect of individual teacher quality.&quot;

There is doubt.  It&#039;s widely understood that when dealing with human populations there is typically more variation within a group than between groups.  For example, the average wage in NSW is higher than the average wage in Tasmania.  Only a fool would extrapolate that everyone in NSW earns more than everyone in Tasmania, or would be surprised that the extrapolation is false.

&quot;It is fair enough for education bureaucrats (for which the NAPLAN tests were designed) to ignore this local variability, but any parent that chooses School A because it did better than School B on the NAPLAN tests is likely to have her kid end up in a class that is worse than the class they would have ended up in School B. So much for parent choice.&quot;

Is there any logical basis for this statement?  School A has higher outcomes than School B - based on an imperfect comparison, but the only one we currently have - so if I choose School A then I am likely to have my child end up in a class that is &#039;worse&#039; than their corresponding School B class.  This is a non sequitur, as are your closing comments.

C-, must try harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>in any given school that overall scores higher than another school, there will be classes that perform worse than the best classes in the &#8220;worse&#8221; school. No doubt this is related to the often-reported trumping effect of individual teacher quality.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is doubt.  It&#8217;s widely understood that when dealing with human populations there is typically more variation within a group than between groups.  For example, the average wage in NSW is higher than the average wage in Tasmania.  Only a fool would extrapolate that everyone in NSW earns more than everyone in Tasmania, or would be surprised that the extrapolation is false.</p>
<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>It is fair enough for education bureaucrats (for which the NAPLAN tests were designed) to ignore this local variability, but any parent that chooses School A because it did better than School B on the NAPLAN tests is likely to have her kid end up in a class that is worse than the class they would have ended up in School B. So much for parent choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is there any logical basis for this statement?  School A has higher outcomes than School B - based on an imperfect comparison, but the only one we currently have - so if I choose School A then I am likely to have my child end up in a class that is &#8216;worse&#8217; than their corresponding School B class.  This is a non sequitur, as are your closing comments.</p>
<p>C-, must try harder.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paddy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39247</link>
		<dc:creator>paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39247</guid>
		<description>Fritz, I&#039;m sorry if this is a dumb question. But I&#039;m really interested in the answer.

Why is it obvious that Julia Gillard wants to be seen to be promoting such retrograde steps as school league tables?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fritz, I&#8217;m sorry if this is a dumb question. But I&#8217;m really interested in the answer.</p>
<p>Why is it obvious that Julia Gillard wants to be seen to be promoting such retrograde steps as school league tables?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Geraldine Strugnell</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39246</link>
		<dc:creator>Geraldine Strugnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39246</guid>
		<description>In explaining that there is a difference in results between classes in the same school, your article claims this is  &quot;no doubt&quot; due  to &quot;the often-reported trumping effect of individual teacher quality.&quot;

Surely there is doubt. It could be as simple as a school having graded classes within the one year.

The article is correct that Professor Wu IS one of the few people who understands the complexities of statistics in educational measurement. League tables of schools based on forty multiple choice questions is simply invalid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In explaining that there is a difference in results between classes in the same school, your article claims this is  &#8220;no doubt&#8221; due  to &#8220;the often-reported trumping effect of individual teacher quality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Surely there is doubt. It could be as simple as a school having graded classes within the one year.</p>
<p>The article is correct that Professor Wu IS one of the few people who understands the complexities of statistics in educational measurement. League tables of schools based on forty multiple choice questions is simply invalid.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Angus Sharpe</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39217</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Sharpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/split-in-the-professional-education-and-research-landscape/#comment-39217</guid>
		<description>Do I understand correctly?  A University statistics professor thinks that the proposed leauge tables are the wrong ones.  Apparently this is &quot;devastating&quot;.  

So let&#039;s leave academic la-la land for a second:
&lt;i&gt; Firstly, does this professor propose a better approach?  If not, let&#039;s go with the &quot;bad&quot; league tables. &lt;/i&gt; 
&lt;i&gt; Secondly, Professor who?  I know a Prof who is apparently the leading Australian expert on sexual politics.  Shall we seek her permission before we ask someone on a date?  Pu-lease.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I understand correctly?  A University statistics professor thinks that the proposed leauge tables are the wrong ones.  Apparently this is &#8220;devastating&#8221;.  </p>
<p>So let&#8217;s leave academic la-la land for a second:<br />
<i> Firstly, does this professor propose a better approach?  If not, let&#8217;s go with the &#8220;bad&#8221; league tables. </i><br />
<i> Secondly, Professor who?  I know a Prof who is apparently the leading Australian expert on sexual politics.  Shall we seek her permission before we ask someone on a date?  Pu-lease.</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using disk: enhanced
Object Caching 529/539 objects using apc

Served from: www.crikey.com.au @ 2012-02-12 18:56:39 -->
