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	<title>Comments on: Rundle: A vision of the future, written by the Left. Part III</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
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		<title>By: Janet Rice</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39399</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39399</guid>
		<description>Thanks Guy. A good read. We just have to believe we have got it in us to transition to a decommodified culture - otherwise as you rightly point out, we&#039;re stuffed. It&#039;s exactly the stuff we in The Greens are grappling with - how do we do this, how much of a global collapse are we going to have to get through to get us onto a way of living that has a future? Can we pull through? ( if not then its outcome A - we&#039;re stuffed.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Guy. A good read. We just have to believe we have got it in us to transition to a decommodified culture - otherwise as you rightly point out, we&#8217;re stuffed. It&#8217;s exactly the stuff we in The Greens are grappling with - how do we do this, how much of a global collapse are we going to have to get through to get us onto a way of living that has a future? Can we pull through? ( if not then its outcome A - we&#8217;re stuffed.)</p>
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		<title>By: Venise Alstergren</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39389</link>
		<dc:creator>Venise Alstergren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39389</guid>
		<description>GUY RUNDLE: My bio in Tweet cites you as a person I look up to. However, I need not to question, but to state what is probably the bleeding obvious.

Why capitalism is failing so many people is in its politics. Politics of the right- wing  theology. I say this because as with Catholicism, and most other forms of western religion,  it is a conservative concept. And conservatism is a reactionary force. Because so many right-wing non-thinkers lack a fundamental philosophy, conservatism run amok becomes nihilism (albeit a moneyed nihilism). Go to a moneyed cocktail-party, as I have done, and ask a successful man (usually) for a Liberal Party philosophy and you will get, as I did, a reply/lecture from John Elliot as to the fault with society lies with young people having  no respect for older people and/or manners. (Odd, as the last thing this gentleman has is manners). This may have a germ of truth sometimes. But it scores zero on a philosophy scale.

Any social change has to come from left-wing political parties. To take two examples, Medicare and the Sydney Opera house could never have come about from a Liberal government, state or federal.

This is where everything comes unstuck. Any idea from bean counting, to social progress, to funding for the Arts (I have to make one exception here.  It was thanks to the late Harold Holt, Liberal Prime Minister who met with an unfortunate death that the Australian Ballet Company became what it is today). But mostly few Liberal/Nasho members can look at any idea posed by the left-wing without rejecting it.

Creative imagination is sparse on the conservative ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GUY RUNDLE: My bio in Tweet cites you as a person I look up to. However, I need not to question, but to state what is probably the bleeding obvious.</p>
<p>Why capitalism is failing so many people is in its politics. Politics of the right- wing  theology. I say this because as with Catholicism, and most other forms of western religion,  it is a conservative concept. And conservatism is a reactionary force. Because so many right-wing non-thinkers lack a fundamental philosophy, conservatism run amok becomes nihilism (albeit a moneyed nihilism). Go to a moneyed cocktail-party, as I have done, and ask a successful man (usually) for a Liberal Party philosophy and you will get, as I did, a reply/lecture from John Elliot as to the fault with society lies with young people having  no respect for older people and/or manners. (Odd, as the last thing this gentleman has is manners). This may have a germ of truth sometimes. But it scores zero on a philosophy scale.</p>
<p>Any social change has to come from left-wing political parties. To take two examples, Medicare and the Sydney Opera house could never have come about from a Liberal government, state or federal.</p>
<p>This is where everything comes unstuck. Any idea from bean counting, to social progress, to funding for the Arts (I have to make one exception here.  It was thanks to the late Harold Holt, Liberal Prime Minister who met with an unfortunate death that the Australian Ballet Company became what it is today). But mostly few Liberal/Nasho members can look at any idea posed by the left-wing without rejecting it.</p>
<p>Creative imagination is sparse on the conservative ground.</p>
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		<title>By: bird7755</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39310</link>
		<dc:creator>bird7755</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39310</guid>
		<description>Scott,

While I support that trade for 3rd world countries is better than aid, globalisation is based on a extreme winnter takes all corporatist agenda - there are no such thing as free trade - saying that implies that there are no values in the market place.

I have a development degree and I can attest that this is what I learnt studying globalisation - the World Bank, IMF and World Trade Centre are up to their necks in this!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>While I support that trade for 3rd world countries is better than aid, globalisation is based on a extreme winnter takes all corporatist agenda - there are no such thing as free trade - saying that implies that there are no values in the market place.</p>
<p>I have a development degree and I can attest that this is what I learnt studying globalisation - the World Bank, IMF and World Trade Centre are up to their necks in this!!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39282</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39282</guid>
		<description>Okay, let&#039;s say First Dog as PC (= Presidential CEO). Rotating, if I have it right. 
On the Oz: I don&#039;t know how people other than willful robots can continue to work there (Kippax St).  Deformation,  atomization: the product of journalism is vacuous - ideas - and as an adaptive organism you are readily reshaped by them. I haven&#039;t read the Oz in years - viscerally unable to - but you, GR are made of sterner stuff,  a dedicated PS (Political Scientist).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, let&#8217;s say First Dog as PC (= Presidential CEO). Rotating, if I have it right.<br />
On the Oz: I don&#8217;t know how people other than willful robots can continue to work there (Kippax St).  Deformation,  atomization: the product of journalism is vacuous - ideas - and as an adaptive organism you are readily reshaped by them. I haven&#8217;t read the Oz in years - viscerally unable to - but you, GR are made of sterner stuff,  a dedicated PS (Political Scientist).</p>
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		<title>By: warwick fry</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39268</link>
		<dc:creator>warwick fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39268</guid>
		<description>Just wondering  - is it okay for a simplistic &#039;left/right&#039; redaction that almost anyone can understand? :

&quot;The left believes that jobs should be there for the workers, the right thinks that workers should be there for the jobs&quot;

cheers
Warwick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering  - is it okay for a simplistic &#8216;left/right&#8217; redaction that almost anyone can understand? :</p>
<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>The left believes that jobs should be there for the workers, the right thinks that workers should be there for the jobs&#8221;</p>
<p>cheers<br />
Warwick</p>
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		<title>By: AR</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39262</link>
		<dc:creator>AR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39262</guid>
		<description>A writer with whom one can disagree &amp; agree yet learn and continue to cogitate. I even printed it out for further consideration and annotating. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A writer with whom one can disagree &amp; agree yet learn and continue to cogitate. I even printed it out for further consideration and annotating. Well done.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39248</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39248</guid>
		<description>Keep it up. Great ideas--even the ones I disagree with most.

If we want to avoid the ugly scenarios Guy foresees we need the kind of vibrant discussion I hope he sets off.

Bob Smith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep it up. Great ideas&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;even the ones I disagree with most.</p>
<p>If we want to avoid the ugly scenarios Guy foresees we need the kind of vibrant discussion I hope he sets off.</p>
<p>Bob Smith</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39233</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39233</guid>
		<description>Great trio of articles covering many diverse ideas.  Thank you Guy.

I would like to plug another area of ideas overdue for re-evaluation:  our monetary system itself.  I refer you to &quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer&quot;, and commend the book &quot;The Future Of Money:  Beyond Greed and Scarcity&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great trio of articles covering many diverse ideas.  Thank you Guy.</p>
<p>I would like to plug another area of ideas overdue for re-evaluation:  our monetary system itself.  I refer you to &#8220;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer&#8221;, and commend the book &#8220;The Future Of Money:  Beyond Greed and Scarcity&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39227</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39227</guid>
		<description>We have experienced one downturn and it sounds like the marxists are at the gates! 

Lets not forget the benefits of capitalism shall we....globalisation, free trade, innovation through protection of intellectual property rights to name a few. What about the greatest reduction in poverty in history through trade with India and China?

Adam Smith&#039;s &quot;invisible hand&quot; is just as important today as it was back in the 1700&#039;s... The Financial systems primary role; of allowing those with money to lend it to those who need it (for a fee), is one of the most socialist concepts around. If those that have money just stick it in a safe, what good is that to the world? By putting it to work in the economy, it allows others to buy houses, start businesses and increase their own wealth, to then lend to others. What is wrong with that?

Yes, we have experienced a downturn in the economy. Yes people are hurting. But to claim that the current system won&#039;t survive seems a little premature. Because lets not forget that capitalism helped get us out of the downturn as well. It wasn&#039;t all government spending...The Reserve Banks reduction of interest rates to encourage spending also contributed..straight out of the capitalist playbook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have experienced one downturn and it sounds like the marxists are at the gates! </p>
<p>Lets not forget the benefits of capitalism shall we&#8230;.globalisation, free trade, innovation through protection of intellectual property rights to name a few. What about the greatest reduction in poverty in history through trade with India and China?</p>
<p>Adam Smith&#8217;s &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; is just as important today as it was back in the 1700&#8217;s&#8230; The Financial systems primary role; of allowing those with money to lend it to those who need it (for a fee), is one of the most socialist concepts around. If those that have money just stick it in a safe, what good is that to the world? By putting it to work in the economy, it allows others to buy houses, start businesses and increase their own wealth, to then lend to others. What is wrong with that?</p>
<p>Yes, we have experienced a downturn in the economy. Yes people are hurting. But to claim that the current system won&#8217;t survive seems a little premature. Because lets not forget that capitalism helped get us out of the downturn as well. It wasn&#8217;t all government spending&#8230;The Reserve Banks reduction of interest rates to encourage spending also contributed..straight out of the capitalist playbook.</p>
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		<title>By: paddy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39221</link>
		<dc:creator>paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39221</guid>
		<description>Well said Guy. Those last two para&#039;s sum it up pretty well. 
The future we all face, will require creative imagination.
Not more of the same dribble from the Oz. 

Thank goodness there&#039;s a reasonable smattering of sh*tstirrers at Crikey to keep us all awake. 
Now go and enjoy that beer. You&#039;ve more than earned it!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Guy. Those last two para&#8217;s sum it up pretty well.<br />
The future we all face, will require creative imagination.<br />
Not more of the same dribble from the Oz. </p>
<p>Thank goodness there&#8217;s a reasonable smattering of sh*tstirrers at Crikey to keep us all awake.<br />
Now go and enjoy that beer. You&#8217;ve more than earned it!!!</p>
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		<title>By: warwick fry</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39204</link>
		<dc:creator>warwick fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39204</guid>
		<description>Good to hear you &#039;coming out&#039; like this, Guy. There&#039;s nothing scarey or nasty about being &#039;left&#039;.  Especially now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to hear you &#8216;coming out&#8217; like this, Guy. There&#8217;s nothing scarey or nasty about being &#8216;left&#8217;.  Especially now.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Richards</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Richards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39187</guid>
		<description>For a while there I thought I was reading from the pages of New Left Review (which I subscribe to)! My god what on earth is happening to Crikey! I thought it was a sarcastic right wing rag. Now its sounding more like a sarcastic left wing rag. Maybe its both... and why not! Nothing like a Grand Coalition of Radical Socialists and True Blue Conservatives to save the planet. All good reasons to keep renewing my subcription to Crikey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a while there I thought I was reading from the pages of New Left Review (which I subscribe to)! My god what on earth is happening to Crikey! I thought it was a sarcastic right wing rag. Now its sounding more like a sarcastic left wing rag. Maybe its both&#8230; and why not! Nothing like a Grand Coalition of Radical Socialists and True Blue Conservatives to save the planet. All good reasons to keep renewing my subcription to Crikey.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackon Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackon Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39181</guid>
		<description>Bravo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo.</p>
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		<title>By: John Bennetts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39180</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bennetts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/29/rundle-a-vision-of-the-future-written-by-the-left-part-iii/#comment-39180</guid>
		<description>You have painted an ugly view of the future, but I am afraid that I agree.  

My grand-kids (if any) will probably despise my generation, who lived through the Menzies &#039;50&#039;s and the subsequent decades and missed opportunity after opportunity to an support develop fairer, more optimistic, peaceful and inclusive societies and chose instead greed, nationalism, consumerism, war and John Winston Howard&#039;s myopia.  And, dare I say, we collectively hung onto our various religions long after it became apparent that no rational person can support either religion or religiosity.

Keep rattling the cage.  We all need to be stirred into thought occasionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have painted an ugly view of the future, but I am afraid that I agree.  </p>
<p>My grand-kids (if any) will probably despise my generation, who lived through the Menzies &#8216;50&#8217;s and the subsequent decades and missed opportunity after opportunity to an support develop fairer, more optimistic, peaceful and inclusive societies and chose instead greed, nationalism, consumerism, war and John Winston Howard&#8217;s myopia.  And, dare I say, we collectively hung onto our various religions long after it became apparent that no rational person can support either religion or religiosity.</p>
<p>Keep rattling the cage.  We all need to be stirred into thought occasionally.</p>
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