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	<title>Comments on: Robb&#8217;s departure leaves a gaping hole in the coalition</title>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38345</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38345</guid>
		<description>Granted Robb is a thinker. However with all these out of the blue, left field events just because they are surprising doesn&#039;t mean they are aren&#039;t a long slow burn out of sight. We in the genral hoi polloi should take Latham&#039;s (!) advice - we know much less of what&#039;s going on than we imagine. The press know a little more but not that much more. The heads of dept and ministers even more. And then there&#039;s the Sun God etc masters of the universe etc.

So what&#039;s my point? Geof Gallop. Declares depression. The the reprise of WA Inc unfolds smashing the credibility of an otherwise clean skin premier who succeeds GG. Did he know? Derr. He may be sick but he&#039;s not stupid.

Same with Robb. He may be sick and who wouldn&#039;t be from the parliamentary rogues gallery of colleagues not govt AND govt. Funny how a big dose of green policy makes people sick of the mainstream. It&#039;s all about the historic sleep walk to eco-cide. Or to quote Apocalypse Now - The Horror, The Horror. What&#039;s taken 2 billion years to evolve, well we&#039;re smashing it up like an ADHD in a china shop. Those &#039;smart&#039; or &#039;dumb&#039; enough to get this are bound to get depressed. Or as ecologists like to say - the best (most diverse) and worst (destruction of same) of times.

Sooo - after the Nats and Libs split, the greenhouse mafia in the Coalition are thrashed in a double dissolution over survival of humanity let alone the economy (you know like John Curtin in WW2) .... well Andrew Robb&#039;s timing will be impeccable really. Last man standing even. Those last will be first ....

As I was saying before when Julia Gillard is PM it will be the worst job in the world to have. But that&#039;s another story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Granted Robb is a thinker. However with all these out of the blue, left field events just because they are surprising doesn&#8217;t mean they are aren&#8217;t a long slow burn out of sight. We in the genral hoi polloi should take Latham&#8217;s (!) advice - we know much less of what&#8217;s going on than we imagine. The press know a little more but not that much more. The heads of dept and ministers even more. And then there&#8217;s the Sun God etc masters of the universe etc.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s my point? Geof Gallop. Declares depression. The the reprise of WA Inc unfolds smashing the credibility of an otherwise clean skin premier who succeeds GG. Did he know? Derr. He may be sick but he&#8217;s not stupid.</p>
<p>Same with Robb. He may be sick and who wouldn&#8217;t be from the parliamentary rogues gallery of colleagues not govt AND govt. Funny how a big dose of green policy makes people sick of the mainstream. It&#8217;s all about the historic sleep walk to eco-cide. Or to quote Apocalypse Now - The Horror, The Horror. What&#8217;s taken 2 billion years to evolve, well we&#8217;re smashing it up like an ADHD in a china shop. Those &#8216;smart&#8217; or &#8216;dumb&#8217; enough to get this are bound to get depressed. Or as ecologists like to say - the best (most diverse) and worst (destruction of same) of times.</p>
<p>Sooo - after the Nats and Libs split, the greenhouse mafia in the Coalition are thrashed in a double dissolution over survival of humanity let alone the economy (you know like John Curtin in WW2) &#8230;. well Andrew Robb&#8217;s timing will be impeccable really. Last man standing even. Those last will be first &#8230;.</p>
<p>As I was saying before when Julia Gillard is PM it will be the worst job in the world to have. But that&#8217;s another story.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz45</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38265</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38265</guid>
		<description>Hi Evan. I realise about the cost of labour, China vs Australia, but what about the monies going to fossil fuels - our money via taxes going to subsidise these profitable companies?It&#039;s a question of being serious about climate change and creating jobs.

 BHP Billiton and Blue Scope Steel have great profits, pay their CEO&#039;s obscene amounts, and yet they probably get their electricity and water cheap as well. Subsidised by us again. Socialize the costs, and privatise the profits is how it works!

 For example, the uranium mine in SA got its water for zilch from the SA govt. They&#039;re going to build their own desalination plant so as to extend (forgot the name of the mine - Beverly? it&#039;s a big one and going to be bigger soon) - SA is the driest state and yet the people subsidised this mining venture while their water was disappearing and they were on restricted use. Of course, the govt in SA like the NSW govt don&#039;t tell us how much electricity will be required to operate the desalination plants? Like Ethanol? How much energy is required to make a litre of ethanol?

The name of the bloke re the solar plant is Dr? Prof? David Mills? He&#039;s been on the 7.30 Report a couple of times. The transcript of his interview is still available. (October 2007?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Evan. I realise about the cost of labour, China vs Australia, but what about the monies going to fossil fuels - our money via taxes going to subsidise these profitable companies?It&#8217;s a question of being serious about climate change and creating jobs.</p>
<p> BHP Billiton and Blue Scope Steel have great profits, pay their CEO&#8217;s obscene amounts, and yet they probably get their electricity and water cheap as well. Subsidised by us again. Socialize the costs, and privatise the profits is how it works!</p>
<p> For example, the uranium mine in SA got its water for zilch from the SA govt. They&#8217;re going to build their own desalination plant so as to extend (forgot the name of the mine - Beverly? it&#8217;s a big one and going to be bigger soon) - SA is the driest state and yet the people subsidised this mining venture while their water was disappearing and they were on restricted use. Of course, the govt in SA like the NSW govt don&#8217;t tell us how much electricity will be required to operate the desalination plants? Like Ethanol? How much energy is required to make a litre of ethanol?</p>
<p>The name of the bloke re the solar plant is Dr? Prof? David Mills? He&#8217;s been on the 7.30 Report a couple of times. The transcript of his interview is still available. (October 2007?)</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Beaver</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38255</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Beaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38255</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz, I&#039;ll try and flesh out some details with the solar companies you refer to.

I suspect with the &#039;thin panels&#039; you&#039;re referring to Origin Energy&#039;s &#039;Sliver Technology&#039;. They&#039;ve been fiddling around with that for years. It&#039;s supposed to be cheaper because they cut the slices of silicon very thinly, so less is used in each panel, and silicon is a major cost contributor to solar panel expenses. Problem here though, is there&#039;s still a major labour component in their manufacture, and Good Aussie Labour is a lot more expensive than Chinese labour. They could be manufactured for s similar cost in Australia, but would need Government support. In which case, it&#039;s hard to defend; are we better manufacturing in a protected market at home, or in an open market in china? I&#039;ve got no idea.

The solar theremal company is Ausra, who are playing with Compact Linear Fresnell Arrays; just a type of solar thermal plant. There&#039;s a few competing designs, all of which are relatively closely matched. Much as I&#039;d like to bag the Govt over this one, but it&#039;s hard to point the blame at them. Ausra have been fiddling around with the CLFR array at Liddell Power Station for years, and to the best of my knowledge still don&#039;t have it working. It&#039;s a pilot demonstration plant yet it doesn&#039;t work! I think Liddell received Govt support, but can&#039;t recall from what program, might even be State. Anyway, I personally doubt Ausra were ever serious about doing major business here; California is their big market, and Australia will never compete with that sort of scale. They might put in a couple of projects here and there, but they&#039;ll mostly be manufactured in the States.

Any solar thermal plant should be capable of heat storage and therefore &#039;base load&#039; generation. Which BTW is a term I despise that has virtually no value. I think &#039;despatchable&#039; is more useful. There are a few spectacular energy storage projects under way in Australia, supported surprisingly by the Old Govt through the Advanced Energy Storage TEchnology program. There&#039;s a couple of good solar thermal projects there. 

Costs? Should already be cheaper than nuclear by a mile. WIll be cheaper than clean coal, but we&#039;re a long way off being cheaper than thermal coal with no carbon capture or carbon penalties. It&#039;s burning dirt! How can anything sophisticated compete with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz, I&#8217;ll try and flesh out some details with the solar companies you refer to.</p>
<p>I suspect with the &#8216;thin panels&#8217; you&#8217;re referring to Origin Energy&#8217;s &#8216;Sliver Technology&#8217;. They&#8217;ve been fiddling around with that for years. It&#8217;s supposed to be cheaper because they cut the slices of silicon very thinly, so less is used in each panel, and silicon is a major cost contributor to solar panel expenses. Problem here though, is there&#8217;s still a major labour component in their manufacture, and Good Aussie Labour is a lot more expensive than Chinese labour. They could be manufactured for s similar cost in Australia, but would need Government support. In which case, it&#8217;s hard to defend; are we better manufacturing in a protected market at home, or in an open market in china? I&#8217;ve got no idea.</p>
<p>The solar theremal company is Ausra, who are playing with Compact Linear Fresnell Arrays; just a type of solar thermal plant. There&#8217;s a few competing designs, all of which are relatively closely matched. Much as I&#8217;d like to bag the Govt over this one, but it&#8217;s hard to point the blame at them. Ausra have been fiddling around with the CLFR array at Liddell Power Station for years, and to the best of my knowledge still don&#8217;t have it working. It&#8217;s a pilot demonstration plant yet it doesn&#8217;t work! I think Liddell received Govt support, but can&#8217;t recall from what program, might even be State. Anyway, I personally doubt Ausra were ever serious about doing major business here; California is their big market, and Australia will never compete with that sort of scale. They might put in a couple of projects here and there, but they&#8217;ll mostly be manufactured in the States.</p>
<p>Any solar thermal plant should be capable of heat storage and therefore &#8216;base load&#8217; generation. Which BTW is a term I despise that has virtually no value. I think &#8216;despatchable&#8217; is more useful. There are a few spectacular energy storage projects under way in Australia, supported surprisingly by the Old Govt through the Advanced Energy Storage TEchnology program. There&#8217;s a couple of good solar thermal projects there. </p>
<p>Costs? Should already be cheaper than nuclear by a mile. WIll be cheaper than clean coal, but we&#8217;re a long way off being cheaper than thermal coal with no carbon capture or carbon penalties. It&#8217;s burning dirt! How can anything sophisticated compete with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Liz45</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38230</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38230</guid>
		<description>It was the Howard Govt who forced an Australian to China to manufacture his &#039;you beaut thin solar panels&#039;? It was also the Howard govt who forced another Australian overseas - to California, where a mult0-billion dollar company is doing trials on solar power. They believe that it could be ready for base load electricity needs within 5 yearss - there&#039;s about 2+ left. The interview is on the 7.30 Report of October 2007? They believe that it will be cheaper than nuclear and hopefully cheaper than coal. Australia emits enough energy from the sun in one day, to provide the world&#039;s needs for one year! (Prof. Ian Lowe, ACF - 7.30 Report too.)

What we need are politicians who are committed. Not to the fossil fuel industry and in particular the mining lobby. We need politicians who&#039;ll stop stuffing around and get on with it, and people who are serious about alternate energy sources, and then putting serious money into it. The fossil fuel industry receives subsidies of about $10 billion at the moment. They should be told, that the party is over, and the money is no longer available - it&#039;s just ridiculous. They&#039;ve been making great profits that we are all subsidising via our taxes. It&#039;s time it stopped! Our taxes are going towards the latest huge increase in the CEO of BHP Billiton - that&#039;s obscene!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was the Howard Govt who forced an Australian to China to manufacture his &#8216;you beaut thin solar panels&#8217;? It was also the Howard govt who forced another Australian overseas - to California, where a mult0-billion dollar company is doing trials on solar power. They believe that it could be ready for base load electricity needs within 5 yearss - there&#8217;s about 2+ left. The interview is on the 7.30 Report of October 2007? They believe that it will be cheaper than nuclear and hopefully cheaper than coal. Australia emits enough energy from the sun in one day, to provide the world&#8217;s needs for one year! (Prof. Ian Lowe, ACF - 7.30 Report too.)</p>
<p>What we need are politicians who are committed. Not to the fossil fuel industry and in particular the mining lobby. We need politicians who&#8217;ll stop stuffing around and get on with it, and people who are serious about alternate energy sources, and then putting serious money into it. The fossil fuel industry receives subsidies of about $10 billion at the moment. They should be told, that the party is over, and the money is no longer available - it&#8217;s just ridiculous. They&#8217;ve been making great profits that we are all subsidising via our taxes. It&#8217;s time it stopped! Our taxes are going towards the latest huge increase in the CEO of BHP Billiton - that&#8217;s obscene!</p>
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		<title>By: Rena Zurawel</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38221</link>
		<dc:creator>Rena Zurawel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38221</guid>
		<description>Andrew Robb has always been a good Liberal. Unfortunately, Andrew, like many others,  could not cope with bloodymindedness of the Liberal leadership. Many people left the Party. Others, are just quietly watching the whirlpool the Libs and  are in trying to catch their tails. I am sure that Andrew&#039;s current condition is not family related. He got caught up between two worlds: Liberal principles and ever sabre rattling Libs bosses with no principles.
Many Liberals went through very traumatic experience: had to accept senseless wars, big government, lobbyists&#039; paradise and shopkeepers mentality of the Howard era.  Mr. Arkwright from &#039;Open all hours&#039; comes to mind. 
Andrew is not a stage clown and he would never &#039;mesmerise&#039; the voters. 
It is high time we got rid of political clowns and start electing people who really do care about this  country future.
So far, both political parties have failed to address the real issues, like i.e. education. Education  is a joke and &#039;job creation&#039; haven for many poorly trained education providers; universities are in tatters and young Australians are deprived of  proper academic /intellectual environment.
Environment is another joke. We talk and talk and watch other countries. Australia is unique in many  a respect. We should afford to have solar panels over our roofs. Waiting for China already selling cheap panels?
Well, we don&#039;t need political dancers. We need concrete, visible solutions to the challenges of our times.
I wish Andrew well. Hopefully he will recover soon. Political recovery is a challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Robb has always been a good Liberal. Unfortunately, Andrew, like many others,  could not cope with bloodymindedness of the Liberal leadership. Many people left the Party. Others, are just quietly watching the whirlpool the Libs and  are in trying to catch their tails. I am sure that Andrew&#8217;s current condition is not family related. He got caught up between two worlds: Liberal principles and ever sabre rattling Libs bosses with no principles.<br />
Many Liberals went through very traumatic experience: had to accept senseless wars, big government, lobbyists&#8217; paradise and shopkeepers mentality of the Howard era.  Mr. Arkwright from &#8216;Open all hours&#8217; comes to mind.<br />
Andrew is not a stage clown and he would never &#8216;mesmerise&#8217; the voters.<br />
It is high time we got rid of political clowns and start electing people who really do care about this  country future.<br />
So far, both political parties have failed to address the real issues, like i.e. education. Education  is a joke and &#8216;job creation&#8217; haven for many poorly trained education providers; universities are in tatters and young Australians are deprived of  proper academic /intellectual environment.<br />
Environment is another joke. We talk and talk and watch other countries. Australia is unique in many  a respect. We should afford to have solar panels over our roofs. Waiting for China already selling cheap panels?<br />
Well, we don&#8217;t need political dancers. We need concrete, visible solutions to the challenges of our times.<br />
I wish Andrew well. Hopefully he will recover soon. Political recovery is a challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Moodie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38182</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Moodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38182</guid>
		<description>I would have preferred Robb as shadow Treasurer, but he&#039;s not especially adept at radio interviews and struggles for the 1-liners that encapsulate his side&#039; s position.  Is that fatal for a top political leader?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have preferred Robb as shadow Treasurer, but he&#8217;s not especially adept at radio interviews and struggles for the 1-liners that encapsulate his side&#8217; s position.  Is that fatal for a top political leader?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Beaver</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38180</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Beaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/21/robbs-departure-leaves-a-gaping-hole-in-the-coalition/#comment-38180</guid>
		<description>Great article BK. Seems an honest and useful assessment of the state of play to &#039;those on my left&#039;. 

I wonder how many commenters will accuse you of blatant Labor bias over this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article BK. Seems an honest and useful assessment of the state of play to &#8216;those on my left&#8217;. </p>
<p>I wonder how many commenters will accuse you of blatant Labor bias over this one.</p>
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