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	<title>Comments on: Turnbull exhumes rotting corpse of WorkChoices</title>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37596</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37596</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s like Kyle Sandilands our Malcolm - always putting his foot in it. So tuned into himself he&#039;s missed the past few years - you know when Brendan Nelson gave Workchoices the last rites and the rest of us watched the cortege carry off the Coalition, its leader and the expired legislation. So badly infected by the deadly IR virus the Liberals carried out their own post-mortem as we debated democracy. Leadership spills, bench swapping and bi-elections later the Party’s future remains in the balance. So what does the Evel Kneival of federal parliament do to top failed Utegate and fake email tricks? He rides into Workchoices territory just to make sure the more things change the more they stay in Opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s like Kyle Sandilands our Malcolm - always putting his foot in it. So tuned into himself he&#8217;s missed the past few years - you know when Brendan Nelson gave Workchoices the last rites and the rest of us watched the cortege carry off the Coalition, its leader and the expired legislation. So badly infected by the deadly IR virus the Liberals carried out their own post-mortem as we debated democracy. Leadership spills, bench swapping and bi-elections later the Party’s future remains in the balance. So what does the Evel Kneival of federal parliament do to top failed Utegate and fake email tricks? He rides into Workchoices territory just to make sure the more things change the more they stay in Opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: SBH</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37583</link>
		<dc:creator>SBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37583</guid>
		<description>Umberto you are right, some perspective is needed.  This is one hell of an industry but the question is do they need special laws.  Special laws seem to be the flavour of the month for our politicians, we need special laws for all kinds of things that our old laws seem to prohibit already but that aside the industry needs to be looked at in context.  It is a dangerous industry and before the BLF it killed a large number of workers, it still kills more than most other industries and injures many many more.  It&#039;s hardly surprising that unions are militant.

But let&#039;s remember that the ABCC is the end result of a political stunt.  the Cole Royal Commission found far more bad behaviour on the developers and employers side than on the workers side.  

It&#039;s also pertinetnt to ask what percentage of the cost of a high-rise CBD building is litigation.  I understand it&#039;s about half.  If we really wanted to clean up the industry we&#039;d look at this.

Liz 45 you delightful nutcase, you are even further left than me and that&#039;s saying something.   I wish there were more like you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umberto you are right, some perspective is needed.  This is one hell of an industry but the question is do they need special laws.  Special laws seem to be the flavour of the month for our politicians, we need special laws for all kinds of things that our old laws seem to prohibit already but that aside the industry needs to be looked at in context.  It is a dangerous industry and before the BLF it killed a large number of workers, it still kills more than most other industries and injures many many more.  It&#8217;s hardly surprising that unions are militant.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s remember that the ABCC is the end result of a political stunt.  the Cole Royal Commission found far more bad behaviour on the developers and employers side than on the workers side.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also pertinetnt to ask what percentage of the cost of a high-rise CBD building is litigation.  I understand it&#8217;s about half.  If we really wanted to clean up the industry we&#8217;d look at this.</p>
<p>Liz 45 you delightful nutcase, you are even further left than me and that&#8217;s saying something.   I wish there were more like you.</p>
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		<title>By: umberto</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37581</link>
		<dc:creator>umberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37581</guid>
		<description>I think  a little bit of perspective is needed about the ABCC. I certainly admit I am very uncomfortable with the level of power it can exercise. Once you get away from the politics of the situation, difficult as that is given the ABCC&#039;s history, I don&#039;t think too many people will disagree that the building industry in the late 1990s was not in a good shape particularly in Victoria and WA.

More recently, I watched the construction of the Perth to Mandurah rail-line and the occurences of &#039;blue-flu&#039; and other acts of industrial bastardry from the unions contribute toward a massive cost overrun on the project. 

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I also saw the horror stories and horrible AWAs from WorkChoices with the job I had at that time. It would be very naive to suggest that employers are all saints irrespective of whether they are in retail, construction, hospitality, government etc. It would also be extremely naive to ignore the findings of the Cole Royal Commission.

I make no excuses for either the CFMEU or the building industry employers. The entire industry needed to pull its socks up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think  a little bit of perspective is needed about the ABCC. I certainly admit I am very uncomfortable with the level of power it can exercise. Once you get away from the politics of the situation, difficult as that is given the ABCC&#8217;s history, I don&#8217;t think too many people will disagree that the building industry in the late 1990s was not in a good shape particularly in Victoria and WA.</p>
<p>More recently, I watched the construction of the Perth to Mandurah rail-line and the occurences of &#8216;blue-flu&#8217; and other acts of industrial bastardry from the unions contribute toward a massive cost overrun on the project. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I also saw the horror stories and horrible AWAs from WorkChoices with the job I had at that time. It would be very naive to suggest that employers are all saints irrespective of whether they are in retail, construction, hospitality, government etc. It would also be extremely naive to ignore the findings of the Cole Royal Commission.</p>
<p>I make no excuses for either the CFMEU or the building industry employers. The entire industry needed to pull its socks up!</p>
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		<title>By: Liz45</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37568</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37568</guid>
		<description>SBH - I think, good on you Turnbull, you&#039;ve just dug your own grave. As a person who was diligently working against Howard being re-elected, primarily over WorstChoices and his general attitude to foreign affairs(read illegal wars etc) and our shame via the migration &#039;laws&#039;, I can&#039;t think of a more stupid path to take by the conservatives. What do they think? That we&#039;re so bloody stupid we&#039;ll fall for it again? 

I&#039;d like the new IR laws to go further in the workers&#039; favour, and I&#039;m certainly against the &quot;Stasi....ABCC&quot; What a disgrace that is. People can be jailed for refusing to answer questions; jailed for telling their partner where they&#039;ve been and what transpired etc. This from an Opposition calling  Rudd a &#039;dictator from Mao etc&#039;?Next they&#039;ll be telling us what a great democracy we have, and how we&#039;re the leader in human rights around the world, blah blah! Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence, and what happens at the barbeque has nought to do with the boss, or the &#039;thought police&#039; either for that matter? There&#039;s some pretty horrible stories on the CFMEU web site.

I&#039;ve heard some terrible stories via WorstChoices, particularly among the lower paid people; young and inexperienced people, and people just sacked for no reason, except to change the workforce to casual, without proper pay and conditions. WorstChoices brought out those disgraceful employers who&#039;d prefer we all worked for nothing or close to it. I remeber Gerry Harvey&#039;s push for a two tier wage system - the lower one for foreign workers? Great stuff Gerry, he&#039;d be at it again. I thought it was dead and buried. Perhaps we need a different method of paying politicians - we could start with Wilson Tuckey, who informed us all, that his maiden speech(1981?) was on IR, and against penalty rates etc. What does he do, apart from taking up space in the Parliament? Not much! He should take a pay cut?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SBH - I think, good on you Turnbull, you&#8217;ve just dug your own grave. As a person who was diligently working against Howard being re-elected, primarily over WorstChoices and his general attitude to foreign affairs(read illegal wars etc) and our shame via the migration &#8216;laws&#8217;, I can&#8217;t think of a more stupid path to take by the conservatives. What do they think? That we&#8217;re so bloody stupid we&#8217;ll fall for it again? </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like the new IR laws to go further in the workers&#8217; favour, and I&#8217;m certainly against the &#8220;Stasi&#8230;.ABCC&#8221; What a disgrace that is. People can be jailed for refusing to answer questions; jailed for telling their partner where they&#8217;ve been and what transpired etc. This from an Opposition calling  Rudd a &#8216;dictator from Mao etc&#8217;?Next they&#8217;ll be telling us what a great democracy we have, and how we&#8217;re the leader in human rights around the world, blah blah! Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence, and what happens at the barbeque has nought to do with the boss, or the &#8216;thought police&#8217; either for that matter? There&#8217;s some pretty horrible stories on the CFMEU web site.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard some terrible stories via WorstChoices, particularly among the lower paid people; young and inexperienced people, and people just sacked for no reason, except to change the workforce to casual, without proper pay and conditions. WorstChoices brought out those disgraceful employers who&#8217;d prefer we all worked for nothing or close to it. I remeber Gerry Harvey&#8217;s push for a two tier wage system - the lower one for foreign workers? Great stuff Gerry, he&#8217;d be at it again. I thought it was dead and buried. Perhaps we need a different method of paying politicians - we could start with Wilson Tuckey, who informed us all, that his maiden speech(1981?) was on IR, and against penalty rates etc. What does he do, apart from taking up space in the Parliament? Not much! He should take a pay cut?</p>
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		<title>By: SBH</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37566</link>
		<dc:creator>SBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37566</guid>
		<description>nice work meski, or is Tom just leaving us hanging?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice work meski, or is Tom just leaving us hanging?</p>
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		<title>By: meski</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37550</link>
		<dc:creator>meski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37550</guid>
		<description>pendant or pedant, Tom?  :)   Or am I being swooshed here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pendant or pedant, Tom?  <img src='http://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    Or am I being swooshed here?</p>
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		<title>By: SBH</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37544</link>
		<dc:creator>SBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37544</guid>
		<description>&quot;Simply inexplicable&#039;  I gaped at the telly in open mouthed horror that Turnbull could get it so wrong.  Like watching a car crash.  And then this morning Joe Hockey giving a verbal approximation of a drunken bear dancing.  Even if they wanted to bring it back, why now for christsake, with the GFC in everyones mind and unemployment rising, just astonishing.  The powerfox sounded like someone had thrown a brace of tied up chickens in her lap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>Simply inexplicable&#8217;  I gaped at the telly in open mouthed horror that Turnbull could get it so wrong.  Like watching a car crash.  And then this morning Joe Hockey giving a verbal approximation of a drunken bear dancing.  Even if they wanted to bring it back, why now for christsake, with the GFC in everyones mind and unemployment rising, just astonishing.  The powerfox sounded like someone had thrown a brace of tied up chickens in her lap.</p>
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		<title>By: John Bennetts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37538</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bennetts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37538</guid>
		<description>Tom McL, there are too many &quot;if&#039;s&quot; in your proposition.  Besides which, if the Feds go too early, they will collect a huge protest vote in NSW and Queensland which is really due to their under-performing State brothers and sisters.  It is by no means clear that a double dissolution trigger would be usable.

Turnbull will keep on being Turnbull.  Outsiders will think that he lacks control and insiders will continue to undermine him, both accidentally (Hockey) or intentionally (no names needed).

Those on the Right simply have not agreed which course to set, and presumably will continue in this mode until they realise collectively that there is an election on, ie in about a year&#039;s time, by which time any policy will be better than none at all.

Watch the frightened backbenchers of both sides as they approach the next election, those for whom re-election is by no means guaranteed.  There&#039;s nothing like the threat of the sack to loosen a politician&#039;s lips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom McL, there are too many &#8220;if&#8217;s&#8221; in your proposition.  Besides which, if the Feds go too early, they will collect a huge protest vote in NSW and Queensland which is really due to their under-performing State brothers and sisters.  It is by no means clear that a double dissolution trigger would be usable.</p>
<p>Turnbull will keep on being Turnbull.  Outsiders will think that he lacks control and insiders will continue to undermine him, both accidentally (Hockey) or intentionally (no names needed).</p>
<p>Those on the Right simply have not agreed which course to set, and presumably will continue in this mode until they realise collectively that there is an election on, ie in about a year&#8217;s time, by which time any policy will be better than none at all.</p>
<p>Watch the frightened backbenchers of both sides as they approach the next election, those for whom re-election is by no means guaranteed.  There&#8217;s nothing like the threat of the sack to loosen a politician&#8217;s lips.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Sharpe</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37537</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Sharpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37537</guid>
		<description>No Malcolm no! ... You&#039;re leading with your chin ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Malcolm no! &#8230; You&#8217;re leading with your chin &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37534</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37534</guid>
		<description>misere, as spelling pendant with woeful record.

Insiders yesterday suggested the ALP Govt &#039;believe/know&#039; they have Turnbull&#039;s measure. 

What I seemed to notice in the clip of PM Rudd with Ali Moore on 7.30 late last week, with Rudd in furrowed brow mode - a dangerous  political posture a bit like Jed Bartlett with hands in pocket, setting a course.

We shall see. &#039;Glasses&#039; Grattan earlier today seems to assume a double dissolution on a $2B health shortfall is not really a goer for some procedural reasons. But what if the PM&#039;s office really leans into it, the way the polity have the NSW ALP totally off balance this week despite ostensible 4 year terms to 2011.

I wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>misere, as spelling pendant with woeful record.</p>
<p>Insiders yesterday suggested the ALP Govt &#8216;believe/know&#8217; they have Turnbull&#8217;s measure. </p>
<p>What I seemed to notice in the clip of PM Rudd with Ali Moore on 7.30 late last week, with Rudd in furrowed brow mode - a dangerous  political posture a bit like Jed Bartlett with hands in pocket, setting a course.</p>
<p>We shall see. &#8216;Glasses&#8217; Grattan earlier today seems to assume a double dissolution on a $2B health shortfall is not really a goer for some procedural reasons. But what if the PM&#8217;s office really leans into it, the way the polity have the NSW ALP totally off balance this week despite ostensible 4 year terms to 2011.</p>
<p>I wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37530</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37530</guid>
		<description>Malcolm Turnbull needs to realise that just because you were good in your past life as a businessman and lawyer, doesn&#039;t necessarily follow that you will be a good politician, not even by the dint of your sheer force of will and study of the political sciences.
  You need to be an alchemist and A-grade political Poker player to be successful at the game, and Malcolm can&#039;t even take a trick; why he can&#039;t even manage a lay-down mizarre like Steve Fielding did last week after his spelling blooper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malcolm Turnbull needs to realise that just because you were good in your past life as a businessman and lawyer, doesn&#8217;t necessarily follow that you will be a good politician, not even by the dint of your sheer force of will and study of the political sciences.<br />
  You need to be an alchemist and A-grade political Poker player to be successful at the game, and Malcolm can&#8217;t even take a trick; why he can&#8217;t even manage a lay-down mizarre like Steve Fielding did last week after his spelling blooper.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramble</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37526</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/turnbull-exhumes-the-rotting-corpse-of-workchoices/#comment-37526</guid>
		<description>Given the blatant unfairness of &#039;Fair Work....&#039; there obviously needs to be some kind of balance and flexibility. By sticking to the union friendly &quot;Fair Work.....&#039; I would suggest that Rudd and Gillard can hardly be painted as white knight and knightess. It&#039;s the same old Labor/Union promotion of mediocrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the blatant unfairness of &#8216;Fair Work&#8230;.&#8217; there obviously needs to be some kind of balance and flexibility. By sticking to the union friendly &#8220;Fair Work&#8230;..&#8217; I would suggest that Rudd and Gillard can hardly be painted as white knight and knightess. It&#8217;s the same old Labor/Union promotion of mediocrity.</p>
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