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	<title>Comments on: Black Canons: Peter Craven writes back</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38011</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38011</guid>
		<description>&quot;In any case, performativity is, though obviously more highly developed and refined in literary discourse, not only central to it. Indeed, ever since Austin’s illuminating examination of the variety of acts which can be performed by the use of language, literature may be seen as a higher-order instance of a performative function which is basic to language itself.

Recognising, however, that a feature of literary discourse is related to or dependent on or an instance of a proto-feature of langugage itself, and then proceeding to draw from this recognition an inference that any performative speech-act can count as “literature”, is clearly unwarranted. For one thing, it summons up the spectre of an indiscriminate, perhaps infinite, variety and scope of examples which can be adduced as instances of “literature”: bus tickets, utility bills, recepits, Janet Albrechtsen’s diatribes in The Australian; anything reduced to written form, really. And, even if we were to embrace this playful and unruly new world of infinite literary variety, we would still be needing to address such questions as: “What is the relative value of the ‘Bacchae’ when compared to a bus ticket?”; or, “Can the performativity instantiated by my Telstra bill illuminate for me the meaning of ‘A Tale of a Tub’?”&quot;

I agree.  Think harder about the hint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>In any case, performativity is, though obviously more highly developed and refined in literary discourse, not only central to it. Indeed, ever since Austin’s illuminating examination of the variety of acts which can be performed by the use of language, literature may be seen as a higher-order instance of a performative function which is basic to language itself.</p>
<p>Recognising, however, that a feature of literary discourse is related to or dependent on or an instance of a proto-feature of langugage itself, and then proceeding to draw from this recognition an inference that any performative speech-act can count as “literature”, is clearly unwarranted. For one thing, it summons up the spectre of an indiscriminate, perhaps infinite, variety and scope of examples which can be adduced as instances of “literature”: bus tickets, utility bills, recepits, Janet Albrechtsen’s diatribes in The Australian; anything reduced to written form, really. And, even if we were to embrace this playful and unruly new world of infinite literary variety, we would still be needing to address such questions as: “What is the relative value of the ‘Bacchae’ when compared to a bus ticket?”; or, “Can the performativity instantiated by my Telstra bill illuminate for me the meaning of ‘A Tale of a Tub’?”&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree.  Think harder about the hint.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Larcombe</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38010</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Larcombe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38010</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that hint. I will need to see whether it is amplified further in the anthology, for, in isolation, I do not interpret it as meaning that any &quot;work&quot; which can be characterised as revealing a &quot;mode of performativity&quot; is necessarily a literary work; simply that performativity is central to literary writing. The question as to what works are literary is still left unaswered.

In any case, performativity is, though obviously more highly developed and refined in literary discourse, not only central to it. Indeed, ever since Austin&#039;s illuminating examination of the variety of acts which can be performed by the use of language, literature may be seen as a higher-order instance of a performative function which is basic to language itself.

Recognising, however, that a feature of literary discourse is related to or dependent on or an instance of a proto-feature of langugage itself, and then proceeding to draw from this recognition an inference that any performative speech-act can count as &quot;literature&quot;, is clearly  unwarranted. For one thing, it summons up the spectre of an indiscriminate, perhaps infinite, variety and scope of examples which can be adduced as instances of &quot;literature&quot;: bus tickets, utility bills, recepits, Janet Albrechtsen&#039;s diatribes in The Australian; anything reduced to written form, really. And, even if we were to embrace this playful and unruly new world of infinite literary variety, we would still be needing to address such questions as: &quot;What is the relative value of the &#039;Bacchae&#039; when compared to a bus ticket?&quot;; or, &quot;Can the performativity instantiated by my Telstra bill  illuminate for me the meaning of  &#039;A Tale of a Tub&#039;?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that hint. I will need to see whether it is amplified further in the anthology, for, in isolation, I do not interpret it as meaning that any &#8220;work&#8221; which can be characterised as revealing a &#8220;mode of performativity&#8221; is necessarily a literary work; simply that performativity is central to literary writing. The question as to what works are literary is still left unaswered.</p>
<p>In any case, performativity is, though obviously more highly developed and refined in literary discourse, not only central to it. Indeed, ever since Austin&#8217;s illuminating examination of the variety of acts which can be performed by the use of language, literature may be seen as a higher-order instance of a performative function which is basic to language itself.</p>
<p>Recognising, however, that a feature of literary discourse is related to or dependent on or an instance of a proto-feature of langugage itself, and then proceeding to draw from this recognition an inference that any performative speech-act can count as &#8220;literature&#8221;, is clearly  unwarranted. For one thing, it summons up the spectre of an indiscriminate, perhaps infinite, variety and scope of examples which can be adduced as instances of &#8220;literature&#8221;: bus tickets, utility bills, recepits, Janet Albrechtsen&#8217;s diatribes in The Australian; anything reduced to written form, really. And, even if we were to embrace this playful and unruly new world of infinite literary variety, we would still be needing to address such questions as: &#8220;What is the relative value of the &#8216;Bacchae&#8217; when compared to a bus ticket?&#8221;; or, &#8220;Can the performativity instantiated by my Telstra bill  illuminate for me the meaning of  &#8216;A Tale of a Tub&#8217;?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38004</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38004</guid>
		<description>@ Chris Larcombe, RE : &quot;My grievance was not primarily about a putative editorial omission properly to define the semantic scope of the concept “literature”, but about the more particular omission to provide a reasoned justification for including such texts as the letter by Maggie Morbourne which, on its face, is not remotely literary on any understanding of “literature” of which I am aware, in an anthology of “Australian Literature”.&quot;

May I offer a hint, easily missed to be sure, in our Introduction: &quot;These works reveal modes of performativity that are central to literary writing.&quot; 

Peter Minter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Chris Larcombe, RE : &#8220;My grievance was not primarily about a putative editorial omission properly to define the semantic scope of the concept “literature”, but about the more particular omission to provide a reasoned justification for including such texts as the letter by Maggie Morbourne which, on its face, is not remotely literary on any understanding of “literature” of which I am aware, in an anthology of “Australian Literature”.&#8221;</p>
<p>May I offer a hint, easily missed to be sure, in our Introduction: &#8220;These works reveal modes of performativity that are central to literary writing.&#8221; </p>
<p>Peter Minter</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Larcombe</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38002</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Larcombe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-38002</guid>
		<description>Kerryn, I am so far from denying the variety of  &quot;legitimate positions to be taken on these matters&quot; that I made a point in my comment of referring to and accepting the cogency of Peter&#039;s &quot;appropriately flexible sense of the concept [of literature]&quot;. My grievance was not primarily about a putative editorial omission properly to define the semantic scope of the concept &quot;literature&quot;, but about the more particular omission to provide a reasoned justification for including such texts as the letter by Maggie Morbourne which, on its face, is not remotely literary on any understanding of &quot;literature&quot; of which I am aware, in an anthology of &quot;Australian Literature&quot;. It is not good enough merely to state, as an explanation of this particular inclusion, that there are &quot;many legitimate positions&quot;; we all know that. And it is not fair, in fact it seems to  smack of disingenuity, to mischaracterise the issue as I expressed it as a mere clever attempt to reduce the complexity of the concept of literature to &quot;a simple syllogism or a string of magisterial pronouncements.&quot; This is not an answer; it is an evasion. And it is evasive because I never purported to doubt this complexity; rather, I wanted to undersand why, by force of whatever definition of literature the editors&#039; embraced, the particular text in question is to be seen as &quot;literature&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerryn, I am so far from denying the variety of  &#8220;legitimate positions to be taken on these matters&#8221; that I made a point in my comment of referring to and accepting the cogency of Peter&#8217;s &#8220;appropriately flexible sense of the concept [of literature]&#8221;. My grievance was not primarily about a putative editorial omission properly to define the semantic scope of the concept &#8220;literature&#8221;, but about the more particular omission to provide a reasoned justification for including such texts as the letter by Maggie Morbourne which, on its face, is not remotely literary on any understanding of &#8220;literature&#8221; of which I am aware, in an anthology of &#8220;Australian Literature&#8221;. It is not good enough merely to state, as an explanation of this particular inclusion, that there are &#8220;many legitimate positions&#8221;; we all know that. And it is not fair, in fact it seems to  smack of disingenuity, to mischaracterise the issue as I expressed it as a mere clever attempt to reduce the complexity of the concept of literature to &#8220;a simple syllogism or a string of magisterial pronouncements.&#8221; This is not an answer; it is an evasion. And it is evasive because I never purported to doubt this complexity; rather, I wanted to undersand why, by force of whatever definition of literature the editors&#8217; embraced, the particular text in question is to be seen as &#8220;literature&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Aphra</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37622</link>
		<dc:creator>Aphra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37622</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve never once claimed that I was &#039;bright&#039;.  Au contraire, which is partly my point.

T&#039;other is valid.  It&#039;s people like me who&#039;ll either buy or reject this Anthology, not those wandering around Olympia.

As for &#039;poor me&#039; - never, ever.  I&#039;m much more comfortable and confident for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve never once claimed that I was &#8216;bright&#8217;.  Au contraire, which is partly my point.</p>
<p>T&#8217;other is valid.  It&#8217;s people like me who&#8217;ll either buy or reject this Anthology, not those wandering around Olympia.</p>
<p>As for &#8216;poor me&#8217; - never, ever.  I&#8217;m much more comfortable and confident for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Serca</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37620</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Serca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37620</guid>
		<description>God I&#039;m tired of whiny people like Aphra, who refer to themselves as &#039;plebs&#039; imply they&#039;ve been excluded from a debate they purport to find boring, and then file a 20 line comment on it.

If you are a pleb Aphra in this case it&#039;s probably not because youre excluded, but because you&#039;re not very bright.

If you find the debate boring, then piss off, and stop playing the &#039;poor me&#039; card. Pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God I&#8217;m tired of whiny people like Aphra, who refer to themselves as &#8216;plebs&#8217; imply they&#8217;ve been excluded from a debate they purport to find boring, and then file a 20 line comment on it.</p>
<p>If you are a pleb Aphra in this case it&#8217;s probably not because youre excluded, but because you&#8217;re not very bright.</p>
<p>If you find the debate boring, then piss off, and stop playing the &#8216;poor me&#8217; card. Pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Aphra</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37618</link>
		<dc:creator>Aphra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37618</guid>
		<description>God this debate is such a bloody bore, and a repetitive one, at that.

The editors were the editors, the final arbitrators, and that&#039;s that.  I&#039;ve never, once in my life, read an anthology or a review of an anthology, which didn&#039;t evoke passions, intellectual posterings and egotistical rebuttals and denunciations.  Yawn.

Australia&#039;s cultural life will neither rise nor fall because of this Anthology.  In the meantime, hopefully, the travelling will be  enhanced and the arrival enlightened by Macquarie&#039;s admirable efforts to make more Australian writing easily accessible to those of us who don&#039;t ponce around the elevated heights of cultural/literary critic or university academic.   

My copy hasn&#039;t yet arrived so it&#039;s hard to comment further except to say that I generally (but not always) enjoy Craven&#039;s reviews, but I think the same of Kerryn  Goldworthy&#039;s.  In my personal library I have a copy of Goldworthy&#039;s selection of Australian Short Stories, a wonderful book, which proves to me that she knows her Australian &#039;stuff&#039;, not to mention her clever and beautifully written collection of shorts, &#039;North of the Moonlight Sonata&#039;.

Perhaps this is a failing of  my own judgment and intelligence but I&#039;m prepared to back a writer/critic, sight unseen, as it were, because she already has discernible runs on the board.

But then, I&#039;m an ordinary plebeian, who&#039;s simply interested to read in and about her own country and it&#039;s literary present and past and who couldn&#039;t give a fig about pretension.

And dare I add that it&#039;s the ordinary plebs amongst us who will contribute to this book&#039;s sale or fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God this debate is such a bloody bore, and a repetitive one, at that.</p>
<p>The editors were the editors, the final arbitrators, and that&#8217;s that.  I&#8217;ve never, once in my life, read an anthology or a review of an anthology, which didn&#8217;t evoke passions, intellectual posterings and egotistical rebuttals and denunciations.  Yawn.</p>
<p>Australia&#8217;s cultural life will neither rise nor fall because of this Anthology.  In the meantime, hopefully, the travelling will be  enhanced and the arrival enlightened by Macquarie&#8217;s admirable efforts to make more Australian writing easily accessible to those of us who don&#8217;t ponce around the elevated heights of cultural/literary critic or university academic.   </p>
<p>My copy hasn&#8217;t yet arrived so it&#8217;s hard to comment further except to say that I generally (but not always) enjoy Craven&#8217;s reviews, but I think the same of Kerryn  Goldworthy&#8217;s.  In my personal library I have a copy of Goldworthy&#8217;s selection of Australian Short Stories, a wonderful book, which proves to me that she knows her Australian &#8216;stuff&#8217;, not to mention her clever and beautifully written collection of shorts, &#8216;North of the Moonlight Sonata&#8217;.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is a failing of  my own judgment and intelligence but I&#8217;m prepared to back a writer/critic, sight unseen, as it were, because she already has discernible runs on the board.</p>
<p>But then, I&#8217;m an ordinary plebeian, who&#8217;s simply interested to read in and about her own country and it&#8217;s literary present and past and who couldn&#8217;t give a fig about pretension.</p>
<p>And dare I add that it&#8217;s the ordinary plebs amongst us who will contribute to this book&#8217;s sale or fail.</p>
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		<title>By: bpobjie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37612</link>
		<dc:creator>bpobjie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37612</guid>
		<description>It is to be hoped that the next anthology will include the entirety of pieces written about the contents of this anthology, including all comments on all Crikey articles on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is to be hoped that the next anthology will include the entirety of pieces written about the contents of this anthology, including all comments on all Crikey articles on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerryn Goldsworthy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37605</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerryn Goldsworthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37605</guid>
		<description>&#039;Clever foot-work Kerryn, but in the present context, as Meski points out, that is a specious distinction.&#039;

Actually, it was a joke. Peter gives the impression that anyone disagreeing with him must by definition be confused, and I was attempting (unsuccessfully, apparently) to make the point as briefly as possible, as per the previous comment, that there are in fact a number of legitimate positions to be taken on these matters, all of them complex and none of them reducible to a simple syllogism or a string of magisterial pronouncements.

&#039;But the PEN anthology is not operating at this level; it does not purport to be a contribution to philosophical anthropology but to literary culture.&#039;

Is that right. I think everyone who has anything to say about the anthology should actually have a bit of a look at it first, starting not with a quick glance at the second half of the Table of Contents but with the introductory essay by the General Editor, Nicholas Jose, in which many of these questions are addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="quo">&#8216;</span>Clever foot-work Kerryn, but in the present context, as Meski points out, that is a specious distinction.&#8217;</p>
<p>Actually, it was a joke. Peter gives the impression that anyone disagreeing with him must by definition be confused, and I was attempting (unsuccessfully, apparently) to make the point as briefly as possible, as per the previous comment, that there are in fact a number of legitimate positions to be taken on these matters, all of them complex and none of them reducible to a simple syllogism or a string of magisterial pronouncements.</p>
<p><span class="quo">&#8216;</span>But the PEN anthology is not operating at this level; it does not purport to be a contribution to philosophical anthropology but to literary culture.&#8217;</p>
<p>Is that right. I think everyone who has anything to say about the anthology should actually have a bit of a look at it first, starting not with a quick glance at the second half of the Table of Contents but with the introductory essay by the General Editor, Nicholas Jose, in which many of these questions are addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Larcombe</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37602</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Larcombe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37602</guid>
		<description>Clever foot-work Kerryn, but in the present context, as Meski points out, that is a specious distinction. 

In any case, how can there be a real disagreement when one interlocutor is labouring under  a fundamental confusion? Or  - if you reject that charge - when one interlocutor, rather than responding to a properly articulated objection, prefers to evade it by redescribing the terms of the debate or disclaiming the existence of any such terms? Either the PEN Anthology is of literature, in the first of Peter&#039;s appropriately flexible senses of the concept, or it is not; if it is, then it is incumbent on the editor to justify the inclusion of material which is prima facie documentary rather than literary; if it is not, then the editor must, in the interests of candour (and self-respect), avoid creating in her putativive  readership an expectation that it will find, in that part of the anthology devoted to Aboriginal subject-matter,  the kind of imaginative richness which it is the distinct ontological function of literature to provide.

The confusion which Peter identifies is perpetuated, I think, by the tenacious attraction of an unexamined premise: that if a work (&quot;text&quot;) cannot be described as &quot;literature&quot; it is of no value at all. But this premise is patently false; the priority of literature over other domains of human culture cannot be demononstrated by strictly literary argument; it requires a higher, or more abstract and capacious, order of reasoning. And - whatever be the results of such reasoning - it is at this higher level that the mutliplicity of values is most perspicuously revealed. At this level, both a bus ticket and the Bacchae can be seen, in their own ways, as inherently valuable.

But the PEN anthology is not operating at this level; it does not purport to be a contribution to philosophical anthropology but to literary culture. And, in light of this, it is entirely legitimate, and laudable, for Peter to have questioned whether the anthology&#039;s contents, and the principles on which they were selected, are fully reflective of and consistent with its self-avowed purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clever foot-work Kerryn, but in the present context, as Meski points out, that is a specious distinction. </p>
<p>In any case, how can there be a real disagreement when one interlocutor is labouring under  a fundamental confusion? Or  - if you reject that charge - when one interlocutor, rather than responding to a properly articulated objection, prefers to evade it by redescribing the terms of the debate or disclaiming the existence of any such terms? Either the PEN Anthology is of literature, in the first of Peter&#8217;s appropriately flexible senses of the concept, or it is not; if it is, then it is incumbent on the editor to justify the inclusion of material which is prima facie documentary rather than literary; if it is not, then the editor must, in the interests of candour (and self-respect), avoid creating in her putativive  readership an expectation that it will find, in that part of the anthology devoted to Aboriginal subject-matter,  the kind of imaginative richness which it is the distinct ontological function of literature to provide.</p>
<p>The confusion which Peter identifies is perpetuated, I think, by the tenacious attraction of an unexamined premise: that if a work (&#8220;text&#8221;) cannot be described as &#8220;literature&#8221; it is of no value at all. But this premise is patently false; the priority of literature over other domains of human culture cannot be demononstrated by strictly literary argument; it requires a higher, or more abstract and capacious, order of reasoning. And - whatever be the results of such reasoning - it is at this higher level that the mutliplicity of values is most perspicuously revealed. At this level, both a bus ticket and the Bacchae can be seen, in their own ways, as inherently valuable.</p>
<p>But the PEN anthology is not operating at this level; it does not purport to be a contribution to philosophical anthropology but to literary culture. And, in light of this, it is entirely legitimate, and laudable, for Peter to have questioned whether the anthology&#8217;s contents, and the principles on which they were selected, are fully reflective of and consistent with its self-avowed purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Cavitation</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37570</link>
		<dc:creator>Cavitation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37570</guid>
		<description>What, the literati are condescending to Aborigines? Peter, they condescend to EVERYONE. 

Still if anyone should write a letter to Sophie just like the example from Maggie Morbourne, then it will have to go into the next edition of PEN, ensuring some literary fame for someone. Otherwise, Maggie would be receiving special treatment because of her background, which would not do...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, the literati are condescending to Aborigines? Peter, they condescend to EVERYONE. </p>
<p>Still if anyone should write a letter to Sophie just like the example from Maggie Morbourne, then it will have to go into the next edition of PEN, ensuring some literary fame for someone. Otherwise, Maggie would be receiving special treatment because of her background, which would not do&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37563</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37563</guid>
		<description>Peter — could you kindly post a list of those pieces in the Anthology that you feel should not be there?

Thanks,

Peter Minter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter — could you kindly post a list of those pieces in the Anthology that you feel should not be there?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Peter Minter</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37562</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37562</guid>
		<description>Peter — could you kindly post a list of those pieces in the Anthology that you feel should not be there?

Thanks,

Pete</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter — could you kindly post a list of those pieces in the Anthology that you feel should not be there?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Pete</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37547</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37547</guid>
		<description>Surely the dispute is not over the calibre of canons but litcrit vs history. If the anthology is supposed to be litcrit, then selecting for historical inclusiveness misses the point.

Therefore Craven is right, though as waffly as ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the dispute is not over the calibre of canons but litcrit vs history. If the anthology is supposed to be litcrit, then selecting for historical inclusiveness misses the point.</p>
<p>Therefore Craven is right, though as waffly as ever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: meski</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37541</link>
		<dc:creator>meski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37541</guid>
		<description>Confused, disagreeing, the two are not mutually exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Confused, disagreeing, the two are not mutually exclusive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kerryn Goldsworthy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37539</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerryn Goldsworthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37539</guid>
		<description>Peter, Sophie is not &quot;confused&quot;. Sophie is &lt;i&gt;disagreeing&lt;/i&gt; with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, Sophie is not &#8220;confused&#8221;. Sophie is <i>disagreeing</i> with you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: james mcdonald</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37533</link>
		<dc:creator>james mcdonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37533</guid>
		<description>It certainly does no favours to Aboriginal literature to act as if a literate Aboriginal is like a dancing bear (&quot;The amazing thing is not how well the bear dances but that it dances at all&quot;: anon). Aboriginal literature has a special distinct voice in Australia, why celebrate shopping lists and letters of complaint as if to remark on the fact that some black people can even spell?

Still, Mr Craven I think you may have fallen victim to your own circumlocutory style such that your original message was a bit hard to process clearly. I haven&#039;t purchased a copy of your review, but the piece above needs some editing and could almost have been reduced to the first and last paragraph without much loss of meaning. And &quot;devoid even of literary ambition&quot; might be taken to mean either that some of the &quot;literature&quot; was just post-it note stuff, or that the writer or the writer&#039;s people lack any sense of poetry.

The lesson is: clarification and elaboration are not synonyms. Simplicity is golden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly does no favours to Aboriginal literature to act as if a literate Aboriginal is like a dancing bear (&#8220;The amazing thing is not how well the bear dances but that it dances at all&#8221;: anon). Aboriginal literature has a special distinct voice in Australia, why celebrate shopping lists and letters of complaint as if to remark on the fact that some black people can even spell?</p>
<p>Still, Mr Craven I think you may have fallen victim to your own circumlocutory style such that your original message was a bit hard to process clearly. I haven&#8217;t purchased a copy of your review, but the piece above needs some editing and could almost have been reduced to the first and last paragraph without much loss of meaning. And &#8220;devoid even of literary ambition&#8221; might be taken to mean either that some of the &#8220;literature&#8221; was just post-it note stuff, or that the writer or the writer&#8217;s people lack any sense of poetry.</p>
<p>The lesson is: clarification and elaboration are not synonyms. Simplicity is golden.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jack Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37528</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37528</guid>
		<description>Why not make it a website and include everyone?

Tick-tock, dead tree dudes. Another gate-keeping gig bites the dust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not make it a website and include everyone?</p>
<p>Tick-tock, dead tree dudes. Another gate-keeping gig bites the dust.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Christie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37512</link>
		<dc:creator>David Christie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37512</guid>
		<description>I cannot see how you can have a canon without a pope to tell you what to put in it. Anyway, my father had a 10 volume set of the best bits of English literature. It must have been a prize because the paper, pix, &amp; binding were terrific. In a small Queensland country town during the War, there was not a lot for a kid to do so I read my way through the lot. One result was a life time enjoyment of literature. The PEN Anthology is a grab bag of &quot;good bits&quot;, encouraging kids like I was to rush off to the local library to get the whole book. I think the editors have done a great job of making known the possibility of Australian literature as a source of pleasure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot see how you can have a canon without a pope to tell you what to put in it. Anyway, my father had a 10 volume set of the best bits of English literature. It must have been a prize because the paper, pix, &amp; binding were terrific. In a small Queensland country town during the War, there was not a lot for a kid to do so I read my way through the lot. One result was a life time enjoyment of literature. The PEN Anthology is a grab bag of &#8220;good bits&#8221;, encouraging kids like I was to rush off to the local library to get the whole book. I think the editors have done a great job of making known the possibility of Australian literature as a source of pleasure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Guy Rundle</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37506</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Rundle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/14/black-canons-peter-craven-writes-back/#comment-37506</guid>
		<description>Um, Peter, mate, though I&#039;m in substantial agreement with you on substance, as far as i can tell from the online contents, the anthology does include an item by Paul Keating -  &#039;the ghost of the swagman&#039;. I&#039;m presuming it&#039;s a speech, or a newspaper piece, unless he was secretly writing bush gothic tales all this time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, Peter, mate, though I&#8217;m in substantial agreement with you on substance, as far as i can tell from the online contents, the anthology does include an item by Paul Keating -  &#8216;the ghost of the swagman&#8217;. I&#8217;m presuming it&#8217;s a speech, or a newspaper piece, unless he was secretly writing bush gothic tales all this time&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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