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	<title>Comments on: Was Mohammed Atta simply a crazed heritage lister?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
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		<title>By: Guy Rundle</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37286</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Rundle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37286</guid>
		<description>not pedantic at all robert - thanks for the correction. how embarrassment of me</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not pedantic at all robert - thanks for the correction. how embarrassment of me</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37263</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37263</guid>
		<description>&quot;not even the precincts surrounding the Hajj, the black-draped rock that forms the centre of devotions.&quot;

Sorry to be pedantic Guy but the centre or perhaps more correctly the focus of worship for devout Muslims is the  Kaaba (Arabic: الكعبة ) where most Muslims hope to visit at least once in their lives ie. to go on a (the ) hajj 
cheers Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>not even the precincts surrounding the Hajj, the black-draped rock that forms the centre of devotions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry to be pedantic Guy but the centre or perhaps more correctly the focus of worship for devout Muslims is the  Kaaba (Arabic: الكعبة ) where most Muslims hope to visit at least once in their lives ie. to go on a (the ) hajj<br />
cheers Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Moira Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37258</link>
		<dc:creator>Moira Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37258</guid>
		<description>Guy writes: &quot;Most violent Islamists, whatever their origins, share the extreme position held by Wahhabists on idolatry and the false attachment to physical objects. There are no tombs for the vast Saudi royal family, for example …&quot;

This is not necessarily a position only shared by violent extremists. I believe it is common among some peace-loving Eastern cultures (I know this to be true of traditional Tibetan Buddhists and the Parsis of India). Attachment to the dead is not encouraged (for their sake as well as for our own), their belongings are distributed among the living, their bodies are burned, or broken up and left for vultures (sky burial http://relijournal.com/religion/feeding-human-corpses-to-vultures-sky-burials/) or other animals to consume.

The attachment of the living to the dead has been identified in several (at least) cultures as an impediment to journey the dead person needs to make. I am thinking especially of an old English folk song &#039;The Unquet Grave&#039; made famous by Joan Baez:

http://www.mp3lyrics.org/j/joan-baez/the-unquiet/

I&#039;ll do as much for my true love,
As any young girl may,
I&#039;ll sit and mourn all on his grave,
For twelve months and a day.

And when twelve months and a day was passed,
The ghost did rise and speak,
&quot;Why sittest thou all on my grave
And will not let me sleep?&quot;

Yeah ... I know this has not great relevance to the activities of Mohammed Atta. Just wanted to point out that &#039;leaving the dead alone&#039; is not necessarily a marker of extremism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy writes: &#8220;Most violent Islamists, whatever their origins, share the extreme position held by Wahhabists on idolatry and the false attachment to physical objects. There are no tombs for the vast Saudi royal family, for example …&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not necessarily a position only shared by violent extremists. I believe it is common among some peace-loving Eastern cultures (I know this to be true of traditional Tibetan Buddhists and the Parsis of India). Attachment to the dead is not encouraged (for their sake as well as for our own), their belongings are distributed among the living, their bodies are burned, or broken up and left for vultures (sky burial <a href="http://relijournal.com/religion/feeding-human-corpses-to-vultures-sky-burials/" rel="nofollow">http://relijournal.com/religion/feeding-human-corpses-to-vultures-sky-burials/</a>) or other animals to consume.</p>
<p>The attachment of the living to the dead has been identified in several (at least) cultures as an impediment to journey the dead person needs to make. I am thinking especially of an old English folk song &#8216;The Unquet Grave&#8217; made famous by Joan Baez:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mp3lyrics.org/j/joan-baez/the-unquiet/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mp3lyrics.org/j/joan-baez/the-unquiet/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ll do as much for my true love,<br />
As any young girl may,<br />
I&#8217;ll sit and mourn all on his grave,<br />
For twelve months and a day.</p>
<p>And when twelve months and a day was passed,<br />
The ghost did rise and speak,<br />
&#8220;Why sittest thou all on my grave<br />
And will not let me sleep?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah &#8230; I know this has not great relevance to the activities of Mohammed Atta. Just wanted to point out that &#8216;leaving the dead alone&#8217; is not necessarily a marker of extremism.</p>
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		<title>By: AR</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37252</link>
		<dc:creator>AR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37252</guid>
		<description>Perhaps their sheer ineptitude is the reason we are about to get &quot;anti-terrorist&quot; laws making those sort of coffee shop ravings actionable, otherwise there&#039;d be no need for the vastly increased budgets of the alphabet soup agencies. Not to mention the new Kommissar&#039;s brillinat idea to investigate Balibo. Guess A/G McClelland was telling more truth than he intended when he, risibly, claimed that the AFP does not act under government direction. Duhhh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps their sheer ineptitude is the reason we are about to get &#8220;anti-terrorist&#8221; laws making those sort of coffee shop ravings actionable, otherwise there&#8217;d be no need for the vastly increased budgets of the alphabet soup agencies. Not to mention the new Kommissar&#8217;s brillinat idea to investigate Balibo. Guess A/G McClelland was telling more truth than he intended when he, risibly, claimed that the AFP does not act under government direction. Duhhh</p>
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		<title>By: bakerboy</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37235</link>
		<dc:creator>bakerboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37235</guid>
		<description>Guy - good observation. These morons we see being charged with &#039;planning&#039; terrorist acts here in Oz are simply misguided fools who want to fantasise about attacking Western culture but wouldn&#039;t have a clue about how to do it. Pulling off a serious terrrorist act even in laid back Oz would require intellect and precise planning. We have yet to see a serious threat despite the grandstanding of the AFP and ASIO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy - good observation. These morons we see being charged with &#8216;planning&#8217; terrorist acts here in Oz are simply misguided fools who want to fantasise about attacking Western culture but wouldn&#8217;t have a clue about how to do it. Pulling off a serious terrrorist act even in laid back Oz would require intellect and precise planning. We have yet to see a serious threat despite the grandstanding of the AFP and ASIO.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37206</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37206</guid>
		<description>The &#039;genius&#039; of Atta assumes one thing - that G W Bush was a serious challenge as an intellect. The evidence suggests quite otherwise. The vision from Michael Moore of &#039;leader&#039; POTUS reading to the school kids and then looking entirely gormless as he hears the news. Well that footage is so profound, it&#039;s breath taking. West Wing it is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;genius&#8217; of Atta assumes one thing - that G W Bush was a serious challenge as an intellect. The evidence suggests quite otherwise. The vision from Michael Moore of &#8216;leader&#8217; POTUS reading to the school kids and then looking entirely gormless as he hears the news. Well that footage is so profound, it&#8217;s breath taking. West Wing it is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37138</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/09/10/rundle-was-mohammed-atta-simply-a-crazed-heritage-lister/#comment-37138</guid>
		<description>Come on Guy, we all know 9/11 was the work of Bush, Cheney et al as an excuse to start the War on Terror.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on Guy, we all know 9/11 was the work of Bush, Cheney et al as an excuse to start the War on Terror.</p>
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