I and others have declared any commercial and non-commercial interests here - before making any comments. In this regard see Chris G’s comments above about Bob D & his interests.

Will Mrs Price, and her husband and business partner Mr Price, see fit to disclose all of their recent (say, since about December 2007, and any current or continuing) contracts of engagement or similar that relate directly to the issues under consideration here, i.e. the Intervention?

The disclosure of interests goes directly to the issue of credibility - in any context.

If people reading your words know what your interests in an issue are they can make up their own minds about any possible conflicts of interest.

As Chris said above to Bob D - over to you, Mr & Mrs Price.

Amén to that!

If you want to hear some voices from the other side of the NT Intervention fence - and that do not get coverage in the mainstream press or get published in the letters pages - have a look at this interview (and the post that follows) with my long time friend Miliwanga Sandy at my Crikey blog, The Northern Myth, here: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2009/06/25/miliwanga-sandy-language-is-our-culture-our-life-our-identity/.

And the interview that I did with Richard Downs two days ago about the walk-off of the Alyawarra people in protest at their treatment under the Intervention may also be useful: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2009/08/31/the-ampilatwatja-walkoff-and-the-wake-up-call-for-alison-anderson-an-interview-with-richard-north/

And I’d be more than happy to interview Mrs Price about her views on the Intervention and her role and aspirations as the Chair of the NT government’s Indigenous Advisory Council - I’m sure it would be a lively and interesting discussion.

I am a white woman, I’ve lived in inner Melbourne all my life and I’ve had a comparatively privileged existence, so I have no way of understanding what your life has been like, or what life is liek for those people living in the remote communities.

I would like to tell you though, that while it must seem that many white people are racist, condescending or just simply apathetic, most of what you hear (like some of the people in this post) are the vocal minority.

The vast majority of us say nothing, not because we don’t feel tremendous sorrow for what has happened to your people – we do - but we know enough to know how ignorant we are, and that we are helpless to do anything that could make a real difference.

I wish there was something that could be done to change the plight of aboriginal people, I wish there was some way we could show you that most Australians are not uncaring or contemptuous towards Aboriginal people. Unfortunately, like most of us, I don’t know how we do that, and so, usually, I don’t say anything.

I am also sorry that you feel under attack here. If we are to have any chance of making real change, we need to be able to discuss all the aspects, and exchange stories and differing opinions with a wider audience than just think-tanks in Canberra. I don’t know where else that can happen if not places like this.

So, again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and stories. Even if they haven’t all said so, many people have read them and understand a little more than they used to because of it.

If I could just add ( without sarcasm )-

That nungarrayi speaks with a good strong voice.

It seems it would be helpful if some loud white blokes like yourself and Chris could get behind her and help ?

Aren’t your goals the same ?

I think you blokes are superior wankers.

My previous post was a futile attempt at sarcasm.

Apology accepted.

You other blokes are just know-it-all whitefellas like my good self.

I think we should just ignore her - she sounds racist…

Still, maintain the rage - right Chris

Jungarrayi is also a white man, Mr Frank Baarda. He has been in my community for too long. [edited]

I don’t want to be deified and I do not represent all Aboriginal people in the NT. I believe in working with democratically elected governments. So far I have worked with three Aboriginal women ministers. We have five Aboriginal MLA’s in our government but you whitefellas, Bob and Jungarrayi, and you Graham, have never acknowledged that or supported them because you think you know better. You try to bring them and me down. Who voted for Bob, Jungarrayi and Graham? Certainly not my people. Prof Anaya is an Apache. maybe their women have the same problem that we have, women oppressed by their own men using culture as an excuse and being supported by ignorant white men while they are doing it. That debate is going on in Canada right now. They have the same problem. Maybe the UN should send a woman next time, one whose body has been scarred by an indigenous husband like mine is. My old husband beat me up every time he got drunk. My husband is now caring and supportive. I’ll show you the scars next time I come home to Yuendumu if you like Bob. In our culture you take off your clothes when you are really angry, when you are insulted the way I have been by this ignorant white man. Let’s do it blackfella way Bob. You think you know my people and my culture better than I do. You have told lies about me to the world. You should face me in person. You would rather our people died than support a government that is trying to save our lives and educate our kids.

James, what you’re asking me to do is provide a 10,000 word essay, and to be honest I just don’t have the energy these days. I don’t wade into this stuff because I’ve done it sooooooo many times and it makes noooooooo difference.

But here are a few simple facts, cliches and all (and I’ll go away and think about a bigger article… have wanted to do a new mythbusters piece for a while) :

1. Most important thing to remember: Aboriginal people must be empowered to create their own solutions and confront their own problems. The NT intervention does the opposite by seizing power from them.

2. Second most important thing: Human rights don’t harm people. They don’t cause poverty. They don’t create unemployment. (Thanks to Mick Dodson for the lines).

3. You can’t eat human rights, but guess what, you’re not supposed to. Equally, human rights don’t cause starvation.

4. Assuring human rights and in no way prevents government’s from providing housing, health services, education etc. Political will - or lack thereof is what causes these things). In other words, you can have human rights and you can have housing. The two are not mutually exclusive.

5. Fixing the problems - ie tackling generations of government neglect - is very expensive and will take a long time.

6. Aboriginal people want to be treated the same way other Australian citizens are treated - it’s not a lot to ask. They want their human rights respected (imagine what would have happened if Macklin tried out the welfare reforms on, say, Melbourne). If that’s too broad a sweeping statement, then put it this way - think of an NT intervention policy (the compulsory land acquisition for example) and then think how you would feel if it were forced on you. Put yourself in their shoes. That is fundamentally what causes the gaps - Australians don’t seem to have the capacity to empathise on this issue.

Time for a new approach from this minister or a new minister.

Now how about some advice that people can actually use. The common question appearing here “what do they want” may strike you as absurdly simplistic, but it reveals that the meaningful, usable messages aren’t getting through. Your’re the reporter, why aren’t they?

And what is the message? “Aboriginal people want the same thing as everyone else - to be treated dignity and respect.” No disputing that; but you know something? even racists will agree with you that Aboriginals deserve those things. Which means it may be good enough for a song title or an intro line but it leaves people hanging for the next part — how to do it. My impression is people joined this thread hoping for some insight on that next part and they are still waiting.

“It ain’t rocket science” you say. No, any bleating liberal can recognise a problem. The rocket science is in suggesting specific ways to fix it. The rocket science is the part that should differentiate frustrated naive bloggers like us, and the shallow unimaginative ADD-affected narcissists we always get in government no matter how we vote and always will, from sophisticated informed journalists like you.

Or maybe this was: “… is there a way to use your knowledge and skills, identify the good, and point the way for someone clever and ambitious who is in a key role, to turn it around?”… sorry James, but while I appreciate your attempts to engage, I’d respectfully suggest you need to learn when to ‘facilitate’ and when to simply acknowledge a sh*t policy when it runs you over.

Which part of the Australian Indigenous Doctor’s Association statement that ‘this is doing Aboriginal men women and children harm’ are you having trouble understanding?

I can appreciate the temptation to just tear your hair out. But suppose you succeed in getting the intervention simply called off, what then? Aboriginal affairs will go off the radar for the next 20 years.

How about getting some major politicians to resign, what then? Their replacements will be no better.

The intervention is what’s happening now. If it’s a poorly executed intervention, surely there is some way you can guide them to do it better.

“I just read Bess’ article - http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25986136-5013172,00.html - and that mostly answered my questions, but the one small sentence in that whole excellent speech which stood out above all others was , “We want to be able to help ourselves.” That imo is also a great “need” for anyone, to enable the fostering of dignity, self respect and respect from others.”

… and so on, it’s a mark of enlightenment, whereas some people just dig in their heels. That’s why I didn’t think much of Hugh McColl’s little piece of point-scoring.

Or as John Maynard Keynes said: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

This forum includes the usual rednecks and goons desperately seeking attention, but there are also well-meaning posts in here that unfortunately completely miss the mark (and the point).

VERONICA: Your interest in the issue is wonderful. But White Australia is the problem, not the solution. 200 years of colonisation proves that.

SIMMOBC: You argue that Tony Abbott is right - something had to be done. The point is, the ‘something’ we are doing is the same ‘something’ that got us in this mess in the first place. Which part of ‘you keep doing the same things, you keep getting the same outcome’ is hard to comprehend here?

All over the world, international experience has shown that Indigenous peoples must create, own and drive the solutions. The NT intervention is the polar opposite of that. That’s why it failed. That’s why it caused harm. And the morons that conceived and supported this disastrous train wreck of a policy know it. So instead of defending the merits of their atrocious actions, they try to distract. Re-read back over Bob Durnan’s posts and try find ONE EXAMPLE of him refuting the failures of the intervention. Then read his previous articles in support of the intervention. And then ask Bob (and Macklin, and Brough and Abbott) to explain themselves.

When it collapses, they’ll try anything: ‘But I live with Aboriginal people; What do the urban elites know?’ ‘They’re not locals’? You eat human rights’. They’ll trot out every parochial moronic cliche known to man. But try and get them to defend their policy on its merits? They can’t. They won’t. They don’t. And guess who gets left to clean up the mess, live in the grinding third world poverty? Here’s a tip - it ain’t Durnan, Macklin, Brough or Abbott.

This whole process is perverted and twisted. It makes me sick to the stomach to watch it, let alone be a part of it.

Aboriginal people want the same thing as everyone else - to be treated dignity and respect. If ‘Bob D’, ‘Mal B’ or Tony or anyone else can demonstrate how the NT intervention does that, I’ll bow out of Indigenous affairs forever.

The one thing I think should be noted is that none of the above have responded to the basic point of this article: racist or otherwise the NT intervention is a bloody big disaster.

Which begs one final question: when will the clowns who created and supported it own up to it? Over to you, Bob.

Ian, you said, “The tone of many submissions here has been “what do they want?” as if they are one homogeneous block and all want the same thing.”

The same can be said for ALL people living in Australia regardless of race, colour or religion. We ALL don’t ‘want’ the same things either but to live successfully in society as a ‘whole’, compromises have to be made, and that usually culminates in what is needed for the ‘main good’ of the majority. If there is a problem with any group of people, it’s beneficial to find out what’s ‘wanted’, then the next move is to see if those ‘wants’ can be accommodated - but definitely only after the “needs” have been met. It’s not beneficial at all to give a child an ice-cream because he wants it, when he really needs a proper meal. Society (and the government) groups us together and society rules (much as I hate it myself sometimes) but we ALL have to serve this country under the one set of rules or we’ll just disintegrate into many groups of peoples, selfishly ‘wanting’ many different things and serving our own agendas. And isn’t that already happening within certain other elements of this society now? After reading all the above comments once again, my brain is hurting.

At the risk of appearing even more ignorant, one thing I’ve gathered from the comments here, is that it seems there is also discontent amongst the different ‘tribes’ of Aboriginals (which borders a bit on the side of (? racial) discrimination within itself doesn’t it? ) and perhaps until such time as they themselves can accept each other and join together, it’s much like pushing the proverbial up a very steep hill with a sieve. Sometimes the best solution for a complex problem is the simplest .

So James, was that a bad thing or a good thing? I’m more confused now than when I first started reading the comments. (Oh, and I’m a ‘her’. ))

RE: “…and the NT Aboriginals could end up teaching us a thing or two about healing people’s spirits instead of breaking them.”

Brilliant!!!