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	<title>Comments on: John Howard&#8217;s Military Court stuff-up</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/</link>
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		<title>By: jamesmmoylan</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35817</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesmmoylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35817</guid>
		<description>errata 
&#039;My Con Law Professor (TR)&#039; 
[sorry Tom]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>errata<br />
&#8216;My Con Law Professor (TR)&#8217; </p>
<blockquote><p>sorry Tom</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: jamesmmoylan</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35815</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesmmoylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35815</guid>
		<description>My Con Law Professor (TM) at SCU was pointing out, a few days before this verdict was delivered, that the law was unsafe.
The general tenor of legal opinion appears to have wavered betwixt categorisation and manner and form problems - but everyone was pointing to problems. When you read the judgement the major (five) and minority (two) all find the act invalid but split along the lines indicated above.

So my question is: Where is the Justice in all this for defence force personnel? Esp for those who were done over in the years prior to 2005. 
Screwed by the system. 
Screwed by the government. 
Screwed by the AMC. 
Screwed by the High Court.

“Ooops, sorry. I know I just stuffed up your whole life but I meant well.”

Join the armed services and get shot at from both sides?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Con Law Professor (TM) at SCU was pointing out, a few days before this verdict was delivered, that the law was unsafe.<br />
The general tenor of legal opinion appears to have wavered betwixt categorisation and manner and form problems - but everyone was pointing to problems. When you read the judgement the major (five) and minority (two) all find the act invalid but split along the lines indicated above.</p>
<p>So my question is: Where is the Justice in all this for defence force personnel? Esp for those who were done over in the years prior to 2005.<br />
Screwed by the system.<br />
Screwed by the government.<br />
Screwed by the AMC.<br />
Screwed by the High Court.</p>
<p>“Ooops, sorry. I know I just stuffed up your whole life but I meant well.”</p>
<p>Join the armed services and get shot at from both sides?</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Moodie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35796</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Moodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35796</guid>
		<description>Tom

I think you recall your Com Con classes correctly (it was admin &amp; constitutional law at our school).  You may also recall the difficulties diffierent governments over several years had establishing arbitration and conciliation commissions in different forms.  Whenever a commission was given the authority to sanction one of the adversaries the High Court struck down the commission as having judicial powers.  The solution, adopted in Gillard&#039;s Act as in previous Acts, is to establish a conciliation body and an industrial division of the Federal Court with parallel jurisdiction, but with one having administrative powers and the other judicial powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom</p>
<p>I think you recall your Com Con classes correctly (it was admin &amp; constitutional law at our school).  You may also recall the difficulties diffierent governments over several years had establishing arbitration and conciliation commissions in different forms.  Whenever a commission was given the authority to sanction one of the adversaries the High Court struck down the commission as having judicial powers.  The solution, adopted in Gillard&#8217;s Act as in previous Acts, is to establish a conciliation body and an industrial division of the Federal Court with parallel jurisdiction, but with one having administrative powers and the other judicial powers.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35784</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35784</guid>
		<description>Agree Senator Faulkner of the over sized reputation was laboured (!) on Fran Kelly this morning. Thank God for RN anyway.

Reaching back to the dim mists of Com Con i.e. Commonwealth Constitutional law lecture days, my intuition is the HCA would be very jealous of the judicial power. 

And think about it - if you could create a court under any head of power, Defence or any other power we could see new courts popping up under any of numerous subject areas. 

That&#039;s a prospect that&#039;s bound to make the HCA nervous about the Executive trespassing on the separation of powers  and poaching their judicial turf. 

By the by, I always remembered the lecturer suggesting that theoretically the Parliament probably has its own inherent constitutional judicial power but by convention does not exercise it, except perhaps in the case of privileges committee processes. The suggestion was Parliament could theoretically set up their own star chamber and prison under the Hill for anyone they thought was naughty.

Now that would give the HCA heartburn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree Senator Faulkner of the over sized reputation was laboured (!) on Fran Kelly this morning. Thank God for RN anyway.</p>
<p>Reaching back to the dim mists of Com Con i.e. Commonwealth Constitutional law lecture days, my intuition is the HCA would be very jealous of the judicial power. </p>
<p>And think about it - if you could create a court under any head of power, Defence or any other power we could see new courts popping up under any of numerous subject areas. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a prospect that&#8217;s bound to make the HCA nervous about the Executive trespassing on the separation of powers  and poaching their judicial turf. </p>
<p>By the by, I always remembered the lecturer suggesting that theoretically the Parliament probably has its own inherent constitutional judicial power but by convention does not exercise it, except perhaps in the case of privileges committee processes. The suggestion was Parliament could theoretically set up their own star chamber and prison under the Hill for anyone they thought was naughty.</p>
<p>Now that would give the HCA heartburn.</p>
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		<title>By: jeebus</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35761</link>
		<dc:creator>jeebus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35761</guid>
		<description>Howard&#039;s hatred of the judiciary borders on pathological, and his attempt to institute an illegal kangaroo court system for the military was rightly shot down by the High Court.

But I guess rather than learning from this bungled overstretch in executive power, Howard has chosen denial instead. He sure seems angry lately, trolling against the &#039;elites&#039; and their bill of rights. A humiliation he cries, an admission of democratic failure if we venture down that path. The floodgates on abortion and gay marriage will gush, he threatened.

I wonder where Howard&#039;s American friends stand on this issue? After all, Bush did institute a Bill of Rights in the re-founding of Iraq, and I would find it greatly entertaining to see him disavow Howard on this issue. Might put the grumpy old b-stard in his place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard&#8217;s hatred of the judiciary borders on pathological, and his attempt to institute an illegal kangaroo court system for the military was rightly shot down by the High Court.</p>
<p>But I guess rather than learning from this bungled overstretch in executive power, Howard has chosen denial instead. He sure seems angry lately, trolling against the &#8216;elites&#8217; and their bill of rights. A humiliation he cries, an admission of democratic failure if we venture down that path. The floodgates on abortion and gay marriage will gush, he threatened.</p>
<p>I wonder where Howard&#8217;s American friends stand on this issue? After all, Bush did institute a Bill of Rights in the re-founding of Iraq, and I would find it greatly entertaining to see him disavow Howard on this issue. Might put the grumpy old b-stard in his place.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Tamock</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35758</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Tamock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35758</guid>
		<description>In the same week that an ex-Prime Minister finds his constructed military court is invalid, he reminds us that he believes that his government was a better protector of our human rights than the courts.   Is there a connection between these ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the same week that an ex-Prime Minister finds his constructed military court is invalid, he reminds us that he believes that his government was a better protector of our human rights than the courts.   Is there a connection between these ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Squid</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35753</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35753</guid>
		<description>the howard rabble&#039;s incompetence in defence knew no bounds. it&#039;s a wonder we have a defence force left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the howard rabble&#8217;s incompetence in defence knew no bounds. it&#8217;s a wonder we have a defence force left.</p>
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		<title>By: pwnerous</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35735</link>
		<dc:creator>pwnerous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35735</guid>
		<description>CLH: I thought he was being calm in the face of adversity. As Michelle Grattan pointed out this morning, he probably now misses the Cabinet Secretary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CLH: I thought he was being calm in the face of adversity. As Michelle Grattan pointed out this morning, he probably now misses the Cabinet Secretary.</p>
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		<title>By: CLH</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35725</link>
		<dc:creator>CLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35725</guid>
		<description>Good article but as to Senator Faulkner&#039;s response,  his ABC interview with Fran Kelly about it this morning was a shock. He was barely awake or engaged. It was like all the boring bits in Senate estimates without any incisive highlights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article but as to Senator Faulkner&#8217;s response,  his ABC interview with Fran Kelly about it this morning was a shock. He was barely awake or engaged. It was like all the boring bits in Senate estimates without any incisive highlights.</p>
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		<title>By: pwnerous</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35720</link>
		<dc:creator>pwnerous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35720</guid>
		<description>Good story - it&#039;s entertaining to watch the civilian courts kicking some a-se.

As Rudd might say, it seems like a &quot;sh-t storm&quot; over at Defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good story - it&#8217;s entertaining to watch the civilian courts kicking some a-se.</p>
<p>As Rudd might say, it seems like a &#8220;sh-t storm&#8221; over at Defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Moodie</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35710</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Moodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/john-howards-five-star-military-court-stuff-up/#comment-35710</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this is part of a general problem: the government has let the military get its own way on too many things.

Where a member of the military is accused of doing something that breaches the civil law they should be charged under the civil law rather than the military law which the military currently insists on using.  This would reduce the number of matters brought before the military court.  Indeed, it seems that the former member of the navy in this case could and should have been charged under the civilian law for the assualt he was accused of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this is part of a general problem: the government has let the military get its own way on too many things.</p>
<p>Where a member of the military is accused of doing something that breaches the civil law they should be charged under the civil law rather than the military law which the military currently insists on using.  This would reduce the number of matters brought before the military court.  Indeed, it seems that the former member of the navy in this case could and should have been charged under the civilian law for the assualt he was accused of.</p>
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