Comments on: Consumer advocate goes eye to eye with ophthalmologists http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:36:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: jack http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35684 jack Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:14:51 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35684 Well at least we can count Rodger!! The surgeon doing 20 cataracts a week according to you also sees 1000 patients in that week to get that operating number of 20!! So 1000 104's or 106's will make them over $60,000 a week if they bulk bill, and that's just the consulting!! Your argument just doesn't make sense. No one doubts the cost of running a practise or the training involved, I run my spouses practise, so my comments are more than anecdotal. Few solo ophthalmologists exist, as you point out it is too expensive. The health dollar is like a pie to be divided up. For too long ophthalmologists have happily taken a good bite of this pie. Like I said- don't worry, doubt any of them will starve. Well at least we can count Rodger!!
The surgeon doing 20 cataracts a week according to you also sees 1000 patients in that week to get that operating number of 20!! So 1000 104’s or 106’s will make them over $60,000 a week if they bulk bill, and that’s just the consulting!! Your argument just doesn’t make sense.
No one doubts the cost of running a practise or the training involved, I run my spouses practise, so my comments are more than anecdotal. Few solo ophthalmologists exist, as you point out it is too expensive.
The health dollar is like a pie to be divided up. For too long ophthalmologists have happily taken a good bite of this pie.
Like I said- don’t worry, doubt any of them will starve.

]]> By: Rodger Davies http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35663 Rodger Davies Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:45:28 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35663 Lots of great anecdotes. The minimum cost to run a one doctor general ophthalmic practice, as determined by government review, more than 10 years ago was $250,000. What does the bottom 10% of ophthalmologists earn? What is the average earnings? Ophthalmologist earning the top incomes have been working very hard for many years to get their practices to that level. A general ophthalmologist does about 50 consultations for each cataract operation. The number of operations done in public hospitals is limited by the system because the more done the more it costs. Teaching also slows it down. Michael Wooldridge, when he was minister for health, decided that more doctors working meant more cost to medicare. Sure, let's train so many that each can do 2 a week at $300 each. Me, I want the Dr who does 20 a week for $1,000 each, sticking the instuments in my eye. Lots of great anecdotes.
The minimum cost to run a one doctor general ophthalmic practice, as determined by government review, more than 10 years ago was $250,000.
What does the bottom 10% of ophthalmologists earn? What is the average earnings?
Ophthalmologist earning the top incomes have been working very hard for many years to get their practices to that level.
A general ophthalmologist does about 50 consultations for each cataract operation.
The number of operations done in public hospitals is limited by the system because the more done the more it costs.
Teaching also slows it down.
Michael Wooldridge, when he was minister for health, decided that more doctors working meant more cost to medicare.
Sure, let’s train so many that each can do 2 a week at $300 each.
Me, I want the Dr who does 20 a week for $1,000 each, sticking the instuments in my eye.

]]> By: jack http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35662 jack Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:07:45 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35662 There are good doctors out there. My spouse is a surgeon who spends hours doing complicated surgery on sick patients with days and weeks of follow up for the price of a couple of cataracts. But it isn't about that as Jos points out. Yes we have a comfortable life now, but we certainly had lean years, darker than most of you would realise. It is a wonderful profession, and my spouse is very satisfied and does a good job. My spouses 'previous secretary worked for an Ophthalmologist like Jenny did. Every day he would scream that he wanted the days billing figures. She said he once threw his lunch back at her because it had mayo on it. Overpaid prima donnas who give the good guys a bad name. Don't cry for them, they will be just fine. There are good doctors out there. My spouse is a surgeon who spends hours doing complicated surgery on sick patients with days and weeks of follow up for the price of a couple of cataracts. But it isn’t about that as Jos points out. Yes we have a comfortable life now, but we certainly had lean years, darker than most of you would realise.
It is a wonderful profession, and my spouse is very satisfied and does a good job. My spouses ‘previous secretary worked for an Ophthalmologist like Jenny did. Every day he would scream that he wanted the days billing figures. She said he once threw his lunch back at her because it had mayo on it.
Overpaid prima donnas who give the good guys a bad name. Don’t cry for them, they will be just fine.

]]> By: Jenny http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35627 Jenny Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:15:35 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35627 This is a terrific piece. About 18 years ago I worked in an ophthalmologist practice - they were raking in money even then, charging well above the scheduled fee, even for pensioners. If was not unusual for a daily income to be up around $10,000 if numerous surgical fees were paid on the day. The wage they were paying their young, excusively female receptionists at the time was about $11,500pa. Yes, we were being paid in a year what they earnt in a day. So a $1m salary does not surprise me. Someone might like to remind them that The Fred Hollows Foundation does the procedure for a lot less cost. This is a terrific piece. About 18 years ago I worked in an ophthalmologist practice - they were raking in money even then, charging well above the scheduled fee, even for pensioners. If was not unusual for a daily income to be up around $10,000 if numerous surgical fees were paid on the day. The wage they were paying their young, excusively female receptionists at the time was about $11,500pa. Yes, we were being paid in a year what they earnt in a day. So a $1m salary does not surprise me.

Someone might like to remind them that The Fred Hollows Foundation does the procedure for a lot less cost.

]]> By: Jos Cull http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35624 Jos Cull Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:07:39 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35624 Sean, my problem with this argument (hey look how long it takes to become a doctor and see how much people in the corporate world make) that is always trundled out by doctors seeking more money for their services is that the practice of medicine is supposed to be about more than making lots of money. I understand doctors want to fund a certain lifestyle, pay for their kids private schooling etc, but if that's all your interested in than don't become a doctor. One of the real problems modern medicine has, as evidenced by the current public funding debate in the US and the identity of the opponents, is that because of the ability of it's practitioners to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle unaffected by prevailing economic conditions it attracts students who's primary motivation (apart from the fact that they got the marks to do medicine) is their own personal long term financial welfare. Being a doctor is supposed to be a vocation about helping people not merely a way to buy a harbour front home. Sean, my problem with this argument (hey look how long it takes to become a doctor and see how much people in the corporate world make) that is always trundled out by doctors seeking more money for their services is that the practice of medicine is supposed to be about more than making lots of money. I understand doctors want to fund a certain lifestyle, pay for their kids private schooling etc, but if that’s all your interested in than don’t become a doctor. One of the real problems modern medicine has, as evidenced by the current public funding debate in the US and the identity of the opponents, is that because of the ability of it’s practitioners to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle unaffected by prevailing economic conditions it attracts students who’s primary motivation (apart from the fact that they got the marks to do medicine) is their own personal long term financial welfare.

Being a doctor is supposed to be a vocation about helping people not merely a way to buy a harbour front home.

]]> By: David Mortimer http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35600 David Mortimer Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:53:44 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35600 This is easy. You have a finite resource and relatively unlimited demand = big gap fees. It is the most sensible way the doctors can allocate their time. Solution: Graduate more doctors. This is easy. You have a finite resource and relatively unlimited demand = big gap fees.
It is the most sensible way the doctors can allocate their time.
Solution: Graduate more doctors.

]]> By: jack http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35585 jack Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:04:55 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35585 What used to take 3-4 hours now can be done in about 12 minutes. The post op care is minimal and I don't think you will find many other specialists standing up and supporting this group. They have not done themselves any favours with their peers by only being able to perform 4 cataracts in a public hospital session and then trotting off to do 3 to 4 times as many in private sessions. What used to take 3-4 hours now can be done in about 12 minutes. The post op care is minimal and I don’t think you will find many other specialists standing up and supporting this group. They have not done themselves any favours with their peers by only being able to perform 4 cataracts in a public hospital session and then trotting off to do 3 to 4 times as many in private sessions.

]]> By: Sean Cornell http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35583 Sean Cornell Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:01:02 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35583 Wow Carol, someone who can spend up to 16 years of their life training to become an ophthalmologist can earn up to $1million a year. Perhaps you may want to read Bernard Keane's piece in yesterdays Crikey about the top public sector earners, the head of Australia Post earns 3 times that. I know whose time i think is worth more. Let me give you the tip, it isn't the Oz Post CEO. Wow Carol, someone who can spend up to 16 years of their life training to become an ophthalmologist can earn up to $1million a year. Perhaps you may want to read Bernard Keane’s piece in yesterdays Crikey about the top public sector earners, the head of Australia Post earns 3 times that. I know whose time i think is worth more. Let me give you the tip, it isn’t the Oz Post CEO.

]]> By: Gavin Moodie http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35574 Gavin Moodie Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:36:39 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35574 Thanx for this. Minister Roxon's line is fairly simple: the reduced Medicare payment is catching up with changes in technology and technique which make the procedure quicker and thus cheaper. I have heard nothing from the ophthalmologists or anyone ele to doubt it Roxon's line so I thought the story on the 7:30 Report was pretty obviously a self interested campaign by the ophthalmologists. I don't know how many others will be convinced by them. Thanx for this. Minister Roxon’s line is fairly simple: the reduced Medicare payment is catching up with changes in technology and technique which make the procedure quicker and thus cheaper. I have heard nothing from the ophthalmologists or anyone ele to doubt it Roxon’s line so I thought the story on the 7:30 Report was pretty obviously a self interested campaign by the ophthalmologists. I don’t know how many others will be convinced by them.

]]> By: Simon Chapman http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35573 Simon Chapman Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:36:20 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/26/consumer-advocate-goes-eye-to-eye-with-ophthalmologists/#comment-35573 Great piece Carol. Great piece Carol.

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