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	<title>Comments on: Kevin Rudd&#8217;s ham-fisted stimulus fails</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
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		<title>By: Gary Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35661</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35661</guid>
		<description>((((Gary Johnson, I’m sure you are the escapee from the deaf and/or dumb and/or blind institute.)))))

Ouuuch!!!!!..that hurt...but how did you know? Actually, of all the above I am only partially blind or as they say, partially sighted, but that was due to an accident when I was a kid.

((((( It appears you have this self imposed notion you are more knowledgeable than the Govt’s Ministers, The Treasury, The IMF, The Bankers etc.))))

Yawn!!!...you are so fucking boring... and typical of the think-tank, change-agent, agenda driven Looney Left. You&#039;d fit in well at the Age newspaper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>((((Gary Johnson, I’m sure you are the escapee from the deaf and/or dumb and/or blind institute.)))))</p>
<p>Ouuuch!!!!!..that hurt&#8230;but how did you know? Actually, of all the above I am only partially blind or as they say, partially sighted, but that was due to an accident when I was a kid.</p>
<p>((((( It appears you have this self imposed notion you are more knowledgeable than the Govt’s Ministers, The Treasury, The IMF, The Bankers etc.))))</p>
<p>Yawn!!!&#8230;you are so fucking boring&#8230; and typical of the think-tank, change-agent, agenda driven Looney Left. You&#8217;d fit in well at the Age newspaper.</p>
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		<title>By: RaymondChurch</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35552</link>
		<dc:creator>RaymondChurch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35552</guid>
		<description>Gary Johnson, I&#039;m sure you are the escapee from the deaf and/or dumb and/or blind institute. Please tap someone on the shoulder (that&#039;s the part the arms are attached to)and indicate in your inimatable fashion you wish to be returned to base. It appears you have this self imposed notion you are more knowledgeable than the Govt&#039;s Ministers, The Treasury, The IMF, The Bankers etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Johnson, I&#8217;m sure you are the escapee from the deaf and/or dumb and/or blind institute. Please tap someone on the shoulder (that&#8217;s the part the arms are attached to)and indicate in your inimatable fashion you wish to be returned to base. It appears you have this self imposed notion you are more knowledgeable than the Govt&#8217;s Ministers, The Treasury, The IMF, The Bankers etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35546</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35546</guid>
		<description>Pull yourself together Raymond...and not apart.

How can you ignore this data? It&#039;s not rocket science mate, first comes Day and then comes Night. If you hold back the Night to prolong the Day, then the Night is Darker and Longer.

Also, beware of the mini booms amid the bear market. In 1930 the market actually had a very brief mini boom during that recession but quickly followed by total economic collapse.

Stimuls is short term, sound economic planning is long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pull yourself together Raymond&#8230;and not apart.</p>
<p>How can you ignore this data? It&#8217;s not rocket science mate, first comes Day and then comes Night. If you hold back the Night to prolong the Day, then the Night is Darker and Longer.</p>
<p>Also, beware of the mini booms amid the bear market. In 1930 the market actually had a very brief mini boom during that recession but quickly followed by total economic collapse.</p>
<p>Stimuls is short term, sound economic planning is long term.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Nicolson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35541</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Nicolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35541</guid>
		<description>Not fair to Joe shock! At least Hockey seldom tries to pretend to any intellectual or econometric rigour and keeps his determinedly political, sceptical and prejudicial running commentary on the GFC to the shortest, least helpful and least specific analysis possible. There are indeed many issues related to the unwinding of the stimulus measures around the world that yet to be clarified or costed (even conceived?).  

That is what we need to see being canvassed and developed most urgently. 

Meanwhile, is it all possible the local car industry is currently affected by a whole slew of consumer negatives ranging from carbon and other pollutant costs, the sudden unwinding of first-world consumers&#039; confidence on the long-term - perhaps even immediate-term - future of petrol-powered vehicles, and the chaos surrounding the multi-national car industry&#039;s future as a stock, industry sector and global hegemony if it persists in founding its products only on hydro-carbons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not fair to Joe shock! At least Hockey seldom tries to pretend to any intellectual or econometric rigour and keeps his determinedly political, sceptical and prejudicial running commentary on the GFC to the shortest, least helpful and least specific analysis possible. There are indeed many issues related to the unwinding of the stimulus measures around the world that yet to be clarified or costed (even conceived?).  </p>
<p>That is what we need to see being canvassed and developed most urgently. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, is it all possible the local car industry is currently affected by a whole slew of consumer negatives ranging from carbon and other pollutant costs, the sudden unwinding of first-world consumers&#8217; confidence on the long-term - perhaps even immediate-term - future of petrol-powered vehicles, and the chaos surrounding the multi-national car industry&#8217;s future as a stock, industry sector and global hegemony if it persists in founding its products only on hydro-carbons.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Knox</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35467</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Knox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35467</guid>
		<description>Frank and Raymond - agree completely.  This is not the first article from Adam mindlessly bashing the Rudd Government.  My favourite line &quot;Measures such as the $900 stimulus payment (which led to a record month for pokies operator Tabcorp) and the vehicle allowance (which gave business owners a tidy discount on their new Mercedes SLK) was paid for by taxpayers&quot;.  

Yep, the money went to pokies (no plasmas Adam?) and the rich bought Mercedes on your money.  No stats.  No proof.  Not even subtle.  Could have been straight out of the mouth of Joe Hockey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank and Raymond - agree completely.  This is not the first article from Adam mindlessly bashing the Rudd Government.  My favourite line &#8220;Measures such as the $900 stimulus payment (which led to a record month for pokies operator Tabcorp) and the vehicle allowance (which gave business owners a tidy discount on their new Mercedes SLK) was paid for by taxpayers&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Yep, the money went to pokies (no plasmas Adam?) and the rich bought Mercedes on your money.  No stats.  No proof.  Not even subtle.  Could have been straight out of the mouth of Joe Hockey.</p>
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		<title>By: RaymondChurch</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35462</link>
		<dc:creator>RaymondChurch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35462</guid>
		<description>Well bugger me its Humpty Hockey writing in the shadows. You summed it up Frank, this is sour grapes from a fly by nighter who is hoping and praying the economy will still come crashing down around him and his Liberal mates so they can poke their tongue out and sing &#039;told you so&#039;. Fat chance Adam, fat chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well bugger me its Humpty Hockey writing in the shadows. You summed it up Frank, this is sour grapes from a fly by nighter who is hoping and praying the economy will still come crashing down around him and his Liberal mates so they can poke their tongue out and sing &#8216;told you so&#8217;. Fat chance Adam, fat chance.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Birchall</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35443</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Birchall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35443</guid>
		<description>A bunch of ham-fisted assertions without a shred of evidence, except for one month&#039;s stats on motor vehicle sales. So far as &quot;the repayment of borrowings for decades to come&quot; is concerned, Treasury does not agree with this at all. Nor does the IMF on effects of the stimulus package. From this piece, one gets the impression that people like Adam can&#039;t accept the clear success of the stimulus package and pounce gleefully upon any opportunity to portray it in a negative light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bunch of ham-fisted assertions without a shred of evidence, except for one month&#8217;s stats on motor vehicle sales. So far as &#8220;the repayment of borrowings for decades to come&#8221; is concerned, Treasury does not agree with this at all. Nor does the IMF on effects of the stimulus package. From this piece, one gets the impression that people like Adam can&#8217;t accept the clear success of the stimulus package and pounce gleefully upon any opportunity to portray it in a negative light.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Musumeci</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35436</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Musumeci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35436</guid>
		<description>Bringing forward capital investment seems like a perfectly valid action by government faced with step-sized reductions in demand after investment risk incurred a step-sized increase last year.  This smoothing would have suppressed some of the recent instability in demand for product from factories producing vehicles and related components, with flow-on effects to employee earnings (and their spending) which naturally spread further out into the economy.  The fact that these fixed term incentive rules were kept simple and didn&#039;t involve vehicle type suggests that the main government focus was on stimulating demand in a certain way within a definite time frame i.e. it was the timing that was important.

Is it just me but why is it that so much commentary on economics in recent times seems to completely ignore the dynamics of the systems involved?  What I&#039;d give to the first economics commentator to stick a couple of block diagrams up and talk about inputs and outputs, shocks going in at various points at certain times, what we might do to suppress nasty effects coming out somewhere else at some set of lag times, etc.

By the way, one of those nasty output effects being suppressed is presumably reduced shifts (or layoffs) in some of the car industry related manufacturers.  In a country with a social security net that supports unemployed people, the government makes savings by keeping a few more people in work (full time or part time!).  If the industries involved tend to have older workers (and I don&#039;t claim to know the age distribution in car production line work), then certainly for older workers it is a good idea to smooth out these bumps and have fewer lose their jobs as they might never get back on board ... the tax paying wagon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bringing forward capital investment seems like a perfectly valid action by government faced with step-sized reductions in demand after investment risk incurred a step-sized increase last year.  This smoothing would have suppressed some of the recent instability in demand for product from factories producing vehicles and related components, with flow-on effects to employee earnings (and their spending) which naturally spread further out into the economy.  The fact that these fixed term incentive rules were kept simple and didn&#8217;t involve vehicle type suggests that the main government focus was on stimulating demand in a certain way within a definite time frame i.e. it was the timing that was important.</p>
<p>Is it just me but why is it that so much commentary on economics in recent times seems to completely ignore the dynamics of the systems involved?  What I&#8217;d give to the first economics commentator to stick a couple of block diagrams up and talk about inputs and outputs, shocks going in at various points at certain times, what we might do to suppress nasty effects coming out somewhere else at some set of lag times, etc.</p>
<p>By the way, one of those nasty output effects being suppressed is presumably reduced shifts (or layoffs) in some of the car industry related manufacturers.  In a country with a social security net that supports unemployed people, the government makes savings by keeping a few more people in work (full time or part time!).  If the industries involved tend to have older workers (and I don&#8217;t claim to know the age distribution in car production line work), then certainly for older workers it is a good idea to smooth out these bumps and have fewer lose their jobs as they might never get back on board &#8230; the tax paying wagon.</p>
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		<title>By: Heathdon McGregor</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35402</link>
		<dc:creator>Heathdon McGregor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/25/kevin-rudds-ham-fisted-stimulus-fails/#comment-35402</guid>
		<description>Bravo Adam, I am worried that people seem to think the worst is over yet in this country we haven&#039;t had a credit crunch or housing slump. I disagreed that the stimulus was the way to go, I thought that saving for infrastructure spending on necessary projects was better. 

Nothing has been decided yet.

Time will tell

No need to congratulate or condemn anybody yet but its good to see an opposing view to the pro stimulus economic stories in the press.

I read somewhere that in 1928 they had a fall that the governments of the daythought they had handled but was followed by a much larger crash. Is this accurate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo Adam, I am worried that people seem to think the worst is over yet in this country we haven&#8217;t had a credit crunch or housing slump. I disagreed that the stimulus was the way to go, I thought that saving for infrastructure spending on necessary projects was better. </p>
<p>Nothing has been decided yet.</p>
<p>Time will tell</p>
<p>No need to congratulate or condemn anybody yet but its good to see an opposing view to the pro stimulus economic stories in the press.</p>
<p>I read somewhere that in 1928 they had a fall that the governments of the daythought they had handled but was followed by a much larger crash. Is this accurate?</p>
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