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The pain of childbirth is ‘valuable’. So suck it up
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A male midwife in the UK has triggered a venomous reaction after publishing a study that suggests pain during childbirth is good for women. Dr Denis Walsh, associate professor in midwifery at Nottingham University, said pain was a “rite of passage” which often helped regulate childbirth. Walsh said:
Dr Walsh maintained that epidurals had a place in childbirth, but not at the rates that they are currently employed. He said epidural rates had been rising over the last 20 years, despite the fact that alternative, less invasive ways to manage pain in labour were available. But the midwife’s measured comments have been boiled down into headlines like this:
and
and
The Herald Sun is currently polling this question:
Right now, 70% of respondents are saying no. Jezebel responded with this comment:
The suggestion is firstly, that this guy is well, a guy, and what would he know? The next is that he’s cruelly suggesting that women should put up with excruciating pain and that he has no right to make such a comment. Crikey spoke to independent birth educator and birth attendant Rhea Dempsey who has attended over 1000 births, both in homes and in hospitals, for over 32 years. Dempsey told Crikey that although feminist ideals are underpinning some of the angry responses to Dr Walsh, in truth, our current culture has ensured that pain in birth is seen as women “suffering”, whereas if we “supported women differently, we could reframe it as potency, agency and power”. One reason that this issue is so controversial, is because “more generally in our culture, we’re not attuned to working with our bodies,” says Dempsey. ”The normal experience of functional, physiological pain, a body working outside of a narrow comfort zone, is not asked of us any more because of our sedentary lifestyle.” The second reason is that “…we equate the pain of childbirth in a medical framework. Pain equals damage, danger and illness,” says Dempsey. ”It causes us to view it as suffering in that framework – and so within a medical frame, suffering is viewed as unnecessary and drug regimes are designed to relieve that suffering.” “Midwifery is more about birthing and seeing birthing as a normal, healthy functional process in a woman’s body.” Dempsey says that the epidural rate in hospitals in Victoria, for example, vary from 10% in some hospitals to 80% in others.
And there’s the (hot oil) rub. The statement in Dr Walsh’s statement that has sparked the most outrage is the suggestion that the pain that comes from pushing something the size of a watermelon out an opening the size of a lemon is “valuable.” Say what? It comes down to hormones, says Dempsey.
Then there’s the good stuff — the endorphins.
So why are epidurals encouraged, or at least not discouraged, in many hospitals? “There is this idea that women shouldn’t have to suffer the unnecessary pain of childbirth,” says Dempsey. “In any situation there will be a number of women where either because of length of labour or some other complication that any number of interventions are beneficial to the outcome for the mother of the baby. Epidurals being one of those things.” “But what Dr Walsh is pointing out which I agree with, that at the levels that epidurals is being used this is not because of complex labours, it’s because of a particular philosophical mindset.” Jezebel signs out with:
But Dempsey says it’s not about judging anyone. “There’s a whole birth culture and social culture which is not built around the woman to make her feel that this is something that she could do.” |
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39 Comments
Religious fanatics approved burning at the stake too.
Queen Victoria used anaesthetic against advice from clerics who say all humans should suffer
Appalling stuff — these particular midwives should not be used as they would put both mothers and babies at risk.
Give me a good hospital any day.
And I have had 4 births.
My 18-year-old step-daughter went in to labour so quickly there was no time to get her to hospital and thus she gave birth to a healthy, happy baby at our place. No epidural, no other pain relief. And she’s generally quite wussy. So it can be done, particularly if labour is quite quick. On the other hand, where labour is prolonged, I’m sure the total amount of pain is quite massive to the point of being pretty well unbearable, and undoubtedly it is better to use pain relief in these circumstances. At the end of the day, it’s all just one more benefit to being a bloke I guess!
Unsurprisingly, considering the topic, there have been a lot of emotional responses to this, as there always are. The headlines and related articles have badly misrepresented the initial idea; that is that not all pain is a bad idea. That’s it. All he’s saying is the pain of childbirth should not necessarily be avoided just because it hurts.
Sure, I don’t have a womb, but I’ve experienced a lot of pain, and yes it can be quite useful. It’s your body telling you that you’re doing something wrong. It helps you muster resources to fix the wrongness. Being philosophical about it, you could argue that falling in and out of love can be painful, but few of us would avoid that just because of some pain.
And very little centres the mind like pain. I have many vivid images and rememberances of being completely in the moment, completely alive, while in pain, self induced or otherwise. It’s the other half of the spectrum; avoid it entirely and you’re missing out on the yang that makes the ying so bloody good.
The dissapointment was almost palpable when Kochie and Mel interviewed Dr Walsh this morning on Sunrise. Unfortunately he came across as pretty sensible and wasn’t suggesting women ‘toughen up’ in any general sense at all.
He was saying pain has its place — not the unbearable stuff DAVELIBERTS is talking about and I’m not sure how KERRY LOVERING has managed to get religious fanatics into the picture — and yes, it’s hard to swallow (Strepsil’s anyone?) but it (Dr Walsh and pain) shouldn’t be dismissed just because it counters our addiction to killing pain.
‘We doctors act if we believe that disease is caused by a lack of prescription drugs in the body’ — I’m not sure who said that.
I’ve had two births without a hint of pain relief - one in hospital, one at home- and they were both incredible and empowering. The high on birthing is all the better for the pain that went before.
Birth is a natural physiological process that should be supported, not a pathological process that must be medicated.
A wise woman who’d attended many births gave me a great analogy for analgesia during birth. Imagine your loved one has prepared for many months to run a marathon. The day of the marathon finally arrives. About halfway through, as you cheer her from the sidelines, you can see she’s starting to struggle. A little further on and she’s visibly in pain, but obviously determined to finish the race. Do you rush in, tell her to lie down, pump her with drugs and carry her to the finish line? Or do you cheer even louder, tell her she’s doing a terrific job, and support her to finish her own race?
Imagine how she’d feel if you took the former route, and condescendingly assumed that she could not finish without assistance. Contrast that with the way she’d feel if you’d taken the latter option and given her loving encouragement and support to cross the finish line.
Unfortunately birth - a natural process - has become politicised. If more women were given better quality support and information throughout pregnancy, encouraged to learn about the normal, natural phyisiological processes of a healthy birth, then supported and encouraged during labour to achieve a normal birth, we would see a significant shift in attitude to labour and birth and the power of the female body.
Isn’t it amazing? The one activity women do on their own; deliver their child has to be disected, trivialized and denigrated by men, either by doctors or this person who has no idea what this pain FEELS like! My point of annoyance even goes to the description of birth - women give birth, doctors/mid wives etc ASSIST? Except in the case of a caesarian perhaps, the contrary could be argued.
I’m the mother of 3 adult children. I’m a very small woman, their father is 30cms taller, bigger boned etc. The first 2 were long labours(9 and 15 hours) the last was very quick(I was told by a trained medical woman friend, that it was due to pre-ecclampsia). The pain was overwhelming in each case, the 3rd was quick and furious! I was also told that I shouldn’t have had this man’s kids due to size difference(nobody mentioned that earlier???)I was happy for pain relief with the first 2 and gas with the last baby - no time for anything else???
To have a male carry on in this manner is just too ludicrous for words. What the hell would he know? It’s the overwhelming love for the baby that provides the motivation/education/sacrifices to be a mother, not the bloody pain for god’s sake? What utter rubbish! He can say what he likes, safe in the knowledge that he’ll never have to experience it! He’d have got a mouthful from me if he’d tried to preach while I was in agony! No wonder some women swear like troopers during labour - I didn’t?
While carrying and giving birth to my babies was the best experience ever; it was also the worst pain I’ve ever experienced - (except maybe for kidney stones?)
There are times when people really need to think before they speak - and then choose to just shut up!What women don’t need is another patronising, paternalistic male while they’re thrashing around in agony!
For goodness sakes Liz, that was incredibly sexist rubbish. At no stage has anyone suggested that all women should go without pain killers at all times. All Walsh said was you should try not to use it. If it still hurts too much, then pull the trigger. Simple. His argument centres on the fact that a lot of people choose an epidural even before they start, or possibly worse order a caesarian before anything starts happening. This is an abstract discussion of whether or not pain has any place in life, not some battle of the sexes to try and keep women down.
There are two aspects to this argument.
1. Men like Evan and Dave who say pain is OK.
Well fellas the next time you need a procedure such as your haemorrhoids done, or wisdom teeth extracted, no anaesthesia for you!! Enjoy the pain, it’s only a quick procedure. Yet to meet a man who wants to feel any pain for any procedure, but thanks Evan, I will offer the yang theory instead of analgesia next time.
2. Women experience labour pain in a vast spectrum of intensity. Some have a stomach ache, others have pain equivalent to amputation of a limb. In this day and age, where we offer many models of care for labour and delivery, lets not be so primitive that we consider childbirth out of the realms of analgesia and anaesthesia. Haemorrhoids and impacted wisdom teeth are natural events too-never an argument for providing appropriate care for these events.
Doc, I’m biting again, and I will not let these sort of sexist comments pass.
I have had 2 shoulder dislocations reduced without anaesthesia. No, it wasn’t great, but I survived, and was very happy afterwards. Compared to having it done under anaesthetic, I’m still not convinced which was worse.
I repeat. The argument is not that everyone should forego painkillers, but at least give yourself a chance to cope with it.
“There are times when people really need to think before they speak - and then choose to just shut up!What women don’t need is another patronising, paternalistic male while they’re thrashing around in agony!”
Yep Liz, you really need to think before you speak.
Neither Dr Walsh — nor anyone who’s contributed to this article (especially those … what are they called again? … MEN) has suggested that a women in your position SHOULDN’T choose pain relief. And I see no evidence of dissecting, trivializing and denigration.
Ultimately I think Dr Wash is saying what your saying: ‘Think before you act’.
Well Evan, your shoulder must be pretty stuffed mate to easily relocate without any sedation.
I promise you an anaesthetic WOULD have been better.
Modern anaesthesia provides great and variable models of care for all sorts of procedures.
However as you say, no one is forcing you to do anything.
PS I would get your shoulder reconstructed ASAP, unless you want an old age of arthritis, instability, and pain.
Thanks for the update Doc. Had it reconstructed last year as a result of the comings and goings. The without-anaesthesia reductions were not a choice, but a matter of having to get home somehow.
But you seem to understand now, which is good. I thoroughly agree, “anaesthesia provides great and variable models of care for all sorts of procedures”, and this is Walsh’s point too. But don’t go for it before the experience begins. It’s not a question of pain and suffering on one side, and a total vacuum on the other. There can be benefits to experiencing pain, but that doesn’t mean you have to.
These kinds of comments always create hysteria, regardless of whether they are made by a man or woman, but doubtless it’s worse because he’s a bloke.
Is anyone commenting on obstetrician Dr Maggie Blott’s comments where she “agreed that pain could help aid the physiology of labour, and that alternative ways to manage pain were available”? She also seeks to clarify Dennis Walsh’s point of view by saying, “But what Denis is saying is that we want to make sure that women get other options, and that they do get really good support from midwives.”
I am in complete agreement with this last statement. Women should have choices, BUT they should be well informed choices and they should be ALL the choices, not just the medical ones. As women, we have been inculcated to believe that childbirth is a horrible and scary experience full of pain and fear. It is well known that fear increases pain and no doubt also increases the number of women opting for epidural, regardless of how their labour may or may not go.
I nearly had a falling out with my obstetrician when I said “NO DRUGS” in my birth plan. Of course I meant “no drugs unless it’s really necessary for the safety of myself or my baby”. I was more freaked out by the concept of a needle in my spine than the pain of pushing out something the size of a grapefruit (let’s be realistic here - the head is the hard bit and it’s nowhere near the size of a watermelon!).
So, let’s dial down the emotions and give women back at least some of the power over their birth experience. Give them ALL the options and as much non-medical support as possible and then make available all the assistance that modern medicine can provide, on the off-chance that it really is a complicated birth that the woman can’t handle.
What arrogance these men display
Liz is quite right — these men should shut up.
And I have had a haemorrhoidectomy — it hurt like hell — and child birth was worse.
Only religious fanatics believe pain is fine for someone else.
Gee Kerry, I’m a girl!!
One of the best things I did before giving birth (once in the hospital and once at home) was to do the Calm Birth course which made me understand WHY we feel pain during childbirth. To understand that it is the uterus contracting etc - the whole physiological side to it. How much less pain you feel if you can manage to relax, surrender, and ride out the contractions. And each contraction was one contraction closer to meeting my babies.
I can’t imagine what it is like to give birth without actually feeling your body working like that. To not experience every second of it. It is amazing feeling your baby descend and move down inside you. And sure it hurt, but I had practiced and planned how to deal with it - hot shower, beautiful warm birth pool, and a husband, sister, mother and midwife (Robyn Dempsey) by my side encouraging me every step of the way. Sure there was a point where I thought, if someone offered me a cesear right now I’d take it - but I am so thankful I didn’t!
I understand and agree with Evan Beaver and Tony Carey (and Dr. Walsh). But I am from a culture in which childbirth is (still) not regarded and treated as it is in many western cultures.
I personally think that pain can be a very useful and powerful tool-but to ever think of it as such requires one to hold a different perspective than what is generally encouraged in some cultures.
Agreed, pain thresholds do vary from person to person and many are the instances in which, the use of medical as well as physical measures to alleviate pain are not only useful but necessary. However, I honestly cannot at all see how what Dr. Walsh is saying is so far off from sensible and measured as has been (willfully?) portrayed by some…
If anyone is wondering: I am a woman.
Cheers.
Did anyone who disagrees with this topic actualy read it?
Oxytocin people! That is the Yin for the Yang. It is NATURAL, NORMAL, body’s own pain relief. And when the pain is over, the rush and love replaces it.
Honestly, if you havent tried to make use of your own oxytocin, you can not expect to understand how good natural, normal birth can be.
I suspect there’s a Crikey roadtest in here somewhere… childbirth v shoulder dislocations v haemorrhoidectomy… Open to men and women.
In fact, isn’t there now a machine that men can strap on that simulates child birth? It was on television recently … I think the man lasted 3 and a half hours..
I don’t think anything can properly simulate childbirth - you just become entirely internally focused and completely oblivious to what is going on around you, aside from helpful advice from midwife. My second stage was an hour and a half - felt like about 20 minutes to me (hubbie had a different view!).
I still don’t think it’s a man/woman thing, it’s an individual thing - we all have different pain thresholds, different builds, different psychological attitudes to pain and different abilities to give birth. However, there should be equality of opportunity, which there isn’t, so maybe that is what we should focus on!
Wasn’t they guy just saying that a “painful rather then painless” childbirth has some benefits, which shouldn’t be overlooked?
I don’t think he was saying that all women should endure painful births. However, as I turn to look at the face of my wife(4kids) and it seems I may be wrong about t..th..thi…this “my lovely, sexy, don’t you look nice ..no no, put down the knife……
Agreed Alison, it’s great to have an open discussion about this stuff — I’ve been bowled over by the way Dr Walsh has been wilfully misrepresented.
He’s actually advocating more support and more information for women to make informed decisions — but people see ‘man’, ‘pain’ and ‘childbirth’ in a headline and immediately jump to conclusions.
Also think it’s a backward step to suggest that men can’t be included in this discussion, should we send them back into the waiting room to pace up and down and hand out cigars?
Sophie - exactly! We can’t really have our cake and eat it too - either we want the blokes involved (and the majority would want exactly as much support - pain relief or otherwise - for their partner as she required) or we don’t.
The crux of this debate is really around the medicalisation of birth and the lack of options and alternative advice. I know I only found it by going out and searching really hard becasue I was interested in having a ‘natural’ birth. The hospital certainly wasn’t offering it in their antenatal classes!
A machine that simulates child birth? Maybe the pain we suffer listening to women sooking about the pain of child birth is enough for us. A kick in the goolies, or an arm across your nose on a cold winter’s morning as you get your head over the ball, your annual prostate check…. now that’s pain.
How dissapointing to read the posts that a “Man” can’t comment on childbirth.
Do all Neurosurgeons need to undergo brain operations? Should all Gynecologists have vaginas? I’m quite surprised that some women could feel so affronted by a Male Midwife offering very credible, sensible arguments to give women MORE information and offer them BETTER options in the birthing process (ie less drugs).
To all the knee-jerk reactionarier: please, do the rest of us a favour and actually READ the article, then do the math -Dr Walsh is on YOUR side. Life gets a lot harder than this.
Despite some emotive responses to this discussion there is a fundamental point mentioned by Walsh regarding pain in childbirth that has not yet been acknowledged. Endorphins and oxytocin produced by the body bring a natural pain relief to the woman. Sure, it’s not pethadine or other morphine based drugs but it does play a natural role when the process can/ and is allowed to happen.
I have two children, one born in hospital, the other at home. Both without painkillers. My choice not to have drugs was simple. Women are told not to drink (not even one glass is safe?), smoke or take drugs (even drugs like paracetomol or ibuprofen should be questioned.) Yet medical personnel encourage the use of pethadine and other drugs in birth ‘normalising’ their use. This contradiction helped me decide that unless it was ‘needed’ (i.e. the safety of my baby or myself was at risk) I would not have them.
However this debate should not be about drug free births vs epidurals etc. This should be about information being provided to prospective parents so they can make informed decisions. This should be about empowering women to give birth actively and reminding them that in most cases this is possible. Then let them decide.
I acknowledge many women do actively seek information thus making informed decisions, however many others are forced to rely on the advice of their practitioner’s philosophy without realising there are other options to consider or readily being able to weigh up the risks of drugs vs pain in birth.
This is what I feel Dr. Walsh is trying to do. He is reframing the medical ‘pain is bad’ philosphy within childbirth by stating that pain actually plays a role and is natural. Childbirth cannot be compared to other procedures because in most cases birth is not associated with illness or procedures to ‘fix’ things.
It’s worth mentioning that there are lots of different philosphies in pain management in medicine, not just “pain is bad”. Most doctors I know offer pain relief, but and try to get on top of the pain before it becomes severe, but won’t push it if the patient doesn’t want it (even those evil obstetricians we all hear so much about - funny that I never seem to meet any…).
Liz45 also said something that shouldn’t go unchallenged:
“I was also told that I shouldn’t have had this man’s kids due to size difference(nobody mentioned that earlier???)”.
Whoever told you this is misinformed or misleading you. There is almost no correlation between parental size and baby size. Little people have big babies all the time, and big people have small babies. It’s to do with parental nutrition, gestation date, whether mum has diabetes, pre-ecclapsia - many many factors. So, hopefully that’s one old wive’s tale dispelled.
A dedication to all those wonderful gentlemen out there who delight in commenting as to what is suitable for women. They don’t have to have to endure the dubious joys of childbirth so how the fu-k can they preach about it? It’s like that old chestnut about the pope. If he no playa de game, he no makea de rules.
I was one of the lucky ones, my first child was born-with anaesthesia-in ten minutes. My second one arrived-without anaesthesia-the minute I got into the operating room and onto the bench, table? So long ago I’ve forgotten. Anyway it was before I’d filled out the paperwork.
The thing which I will never forget was the tormented cries of women enduring protracted birthing. They would wander up and down corridors sobbing with pain and waiting, waiting. Perhaps they weren’t trying hard enough to push through the pain. I don’t know, but I do know their cries have haunted me for years.
I wonder if someone could answer this question…the men who for years sought to give the world anaesthesia and thus free women to have babies without the pain of childbirth; is this how we repay them? By turning away from these benefits in order to have so-called natural birth.
Some clown of a man in these comments was waffling on about pain and how it could be of benefit to be on the receiving end. Tell me have you thought of the unfortunate people in Dachau, Bergen-Belsen and hundreds of other concentration camps throughout WWII? Do you think the people being subjected to these experiments to help the master race to throw Aryan clones or experiment with twins understood the benefits of their pain, or do you think they would have preferred anaesthesia?
However, I become too obsessive. Therefore I’m suggesting something by way of a contest, as fair a contest as I can devise. One woman to have a baby without anaesthesia and a man to have a prostate tumor removed-also without anaesthesia. This will go on for the whole of next week. One woman for one man. When the various parties have recovered from their ordeal there will be a nice little get together to discuss their experiences. Coffee and cakes, no alcohol allowed. Ditto any form of tranquiliser.
RSPV ASAP.
Sound fair?
I’ll be honest, I didn’t read all of the comments. How did we get onto Nazis?
Disclosure: I am male.
Mr. Goodtrips, couldn’t really say, I think you’d call that drawing a long, irrelevant, inappropriate, bow…
I read a story about this with genuine interest a couple of days ago and was remarking on it to my mother when I realised that the study had been published by a human being with an X-Y set of chromosomes. We both agreed that this bloke was therefore about to be screamed down from all angles by hysterical women (for the record, I possess a set of X-X chromosomes in my DNA) angry that anyone without a vagina dare to comment on reproductive matters.
Let’s be clear on what the guy’s position (supported by scientific evidence - and shared by many female experts in the field) is:
- Pain relief has its place in childbirth, but not at the rates we are currently seeing
- The pain experienced in childbirth comes with some valuable benefits
To Liz45, who asks “To have a male carry on in this manner is just too ludicrous for words. What the hell would he know?” - the answer is quite a lot, actually. He’s an Associate Professor in midwifery. Just because he can’t give birth himself doesn’t mean he can’t conduct scientific studies on it. That’s like suggesting that human beings can’t possibly discover anything about flight because we don’t have wings.
And to Venise, who recalls “the tormented cries of women enduring protracted birthing. They would wander up and down corridors sobbing with pain and waiting, waiting.” I find it hard, after reading Dr Walsh’s position on this, to imagine him “preaching” at them to put up with the pain in a case like that. He has made it quite clear that there are definitely cases where pain relief is essential.
And to Liz45 again, “There are times when people really need to think before they speak - and then choose to just shut up!What women don’t need is another patronising, paternalistic male while they’re thrashing around in agony!” Please try to heed your own advice. What women DO need is all the information possible about these things so that we can make INFORMED CHOICES. I haven’t had any children yet, but when the time comes I’ll be factoring in Dr Walsh’s findings when it comes to deciding on how I want to manage the pain of labour.
As an aside, I’m wondering whether some elements of this discussion fit into the wider context of the growing tendency, in Western culture especially, to avoid any level of pain or discomfort at all costs. I agree with Evan’s sentiments about pain (and in the same vein, mental anguish) being useful at times, and the fact that it can be the “yang” that makes the “ying” so good.
Sure a man may never know himself, what it is like to birth a baby, but are we not forgetting Monsieur Michel Odent? Google him.
It seems in all this heated discussion that a vital element is missing. So what’s wrong with epidurals and pethidine to ease the pain of labour and childbirth (not delivery people please, the pizza boy delivers - women give birth).
It is well documented now that epidural use directly increases the risk of instrumental birth - that’s forceps ( rather larger than usual salad server looking things), or vacuum extraction - that’s a cup applied to your baby’s head and negative pressure used to create suction to make it stick, with the need for episiotomy - that’s cutting the perineum - the region between the vagina and anus - to make room for the insertion of previously mentioned equipment to pull the baby out. This risk is increased by 50% with epidural use. An epidural can make it very difficult for a woman to focus and push her baby out unaided as she has NO sensation to guide her efforts. The baby OFTEN gets stuck in a position whereby it’s head is presenting in the largest possible diameter, making it impossible for the baby to get out - descent and rotation (yes boys and girls, the babies have to go though some pretty tricky maneuvers to make it to the outside world - it isn’t just a long tunnel with a light at the end) depend on the woman being able to MOVE so that her pelvis can adapt and shift to accommodate her baby. I’m still only talking about the effects of epidurals on the labour and birth, stick with me. The anaethetic agent that is used in the epidural also passes through to the baby and it may be a little dazed (drugged) for a few days and not really understand what breasts are for - especially if it has had forceps or vacuum applied to it’s head to pull it out as it is now also sporting a sore head and possible damage to the muscles of the mouth, tongue and jaw. Breastfeeding - if you’re intending to that is, I wouldn’t dare to presume that all women should (although it’s good enough for the WHO) - may be delayed by several days, by which time you baby will probably have been given formula and be glowing a rather strange colour yellow (jaundice). Pethidine - it’s just a little injection - does not remove the pain of contractions but does make the woman sleepy and out of it. Having a rather long half life, it stays in your baby’s system for around 14 days and these babies too, behave in an unusual fashion when it comes to recognizing what breasts are for. Not all, but many, many. Oh yes, incontinence! There is and increased risk of urinary and/or faecal incontinence following trauma to the perineum as a direct result of epidurals. Then there’s the possibility that the baby may not deal with the sudden drop in mum’s blood pressure and it’s heart rate might take a dive - this is of course time for all the stops to be pulled out and alarm bells to be rung with a quick trip to the operating theatre where all are “saved” from the deadly dangers of childbirth. Stuff and nonsense! The deadly danger started with the decision to use an epidural in labour. Try water immersion, sterile water injections, the shower, movement, being supported and having faith that this is NOT a crisis, this is childbirth and your body is very well adapted to be able to do it. We have created a culture of fear about giving birth that is disturbing to say the least, and our efforts to ameliorate the pain feed back into the problem by creating emergency situations. A self fulfilling prophecy?
Well put, Kate. Which brings us back to better education for women and their partners about better options for birthing! If we aren’t told about ALL the possibilities (not just the medical ones) may will never know, because not everyone will go out and do their own research.
Question is - who is reponsible for informing women? If left up to medical staff, it’s unlikely that the full and balanced picture will be presented. Let’s hope that increased levels of “shared care” or midwife centred care will help redress the problem.
Mr Good Trips and Sophie Black. The reason I brought in the victims of concentration camps was to illustrate the questionable theory that pain can be good for one.
If pain can, in fact, be so uplifting then think of people who would have benefited by anaesthesia but didn’t get it.
I suppose being raped by a telegraph pole would be a similar feeling to childbirth. But I couldn’t imagine that this would be an experience that women would be swanning on about. The mythology which has been invented about childbirth is astonishing. Billions of women have had babies. It’s just no big deal-apart from the pain.
Venise - for someone who has borne two children, you have make a rather odd comparison. Giving birth is not like rape in any respect. You are coming over very bitter here and I’m not sure it’s helping you get your point across.
Again, nobody is suggesting that all women go without drugs to ease pain, where they are needed, just that women be better informed about the options.
Every other ‘expert’ has weighed in, so I can’t help myself.
Apparently men, even qualified men, have no right to have an opinion on child birth. Well I would like to add to that… most lay women don’t have any right to enforce their views on other women, either.
I have had three births, all natural, all drug free (okay, a bit of happy gas in birth two).
I have had two forceps deliveries, an episiotomy for the second birth - AVOID!! - and a completely natural delivery for the last - no stitches! Hurrah!
That last one was the one that hurt the most.
It really, truly is like trying to force a watermelon or a basket ball out of your nether regions.
It honestly, really truly hurts in way you can only imagine and unless you’re the type that enjoys pain, or finds it somehow motivational (like me!) you are not so likely to enjoy it.
I would have had happy gas for the third birth… if I could have somehow raised my head or responded in any way at all to the midwife who was FINALLY offering it to me. I was catatonic.
So I climbed a mountain. I can recommend delivering standing up. Big whoop!
I can appreciate the male midwife’s comments, but I think all positive and encouraging discussion is useful, with an emphasis but definitely NOT a one-size-fits-all prescription for active and drug-free birth.
Bearing in mind, of course, that some research suggests that hospitals with a higher number of interventions in pregnancy have lower infant / mother mortality or injury rates…
Alison, I used a telegraph pole as an analogy because I was trying to think of something in circumference which might be the size of a baby. I didn’t even think about the length of it.
Alison, Jane, Somerville, Kate, Astrid John, Gwaine, Julia, Hermione, Kim and Kelvin. You come in so many guises and so many names, but with one deadening quality in common. ‘If you think you’re losing an argument, call your opponent bitter, or a fool. I disagreed with what you , Alison, bingo you described me as bitter.
This shows me the inanity of your argument and relieves me from having to add anything further. This is a pity because the whole exercise is about the latest fashion and like whalebone corsets or Chinese foot-binding it could be of great harmn to women.
To KATEALLARDICE, thank you heaps for your comments re epidurals. I’m yet to have a sprog myself, so the information you posted has been filed away in my mind under “stuff to look out for” when the time’s right. It’s information like this that contributes to breeding well-informed women capable of making their own choice when the time comes.