Rude should not be permitted to have carte blanche over the media to promote his propaganda.

Was it a WP version only? Or maybe Gmail or such like? I give up.

GG needs a good lawyer pronto, that’s for sure. And said (!) lawyer present at any interviews with the AFP too I would say.

As Mark Riley said on 7 on Sunday night news - who ever faked this email ‘is going to gaol’. That’s grim.

After today’s events I feel somewhat vindicated.

Joe Hockey to make his move on Turnbull in the not-too-distant future.

This issue is NOT about an email, it is about the fraud on seret backroom deals and favours and liars covering their ar*ces.

Labour and Kevin ‘bully’ Rude’s private paid PR spin team can put all the smokes and screen diversion tricks up, coz Kevin ‘BULLY’ RUDE knows he is a goner and his reptutation shot…. he cried communist red tears last night, coz his globalist dream of being head of the United Nations Security Council is slippin away

Rude and his Canberra flat mate of 10 years aka ‘Australian Treasurer’ Wayne Swan are in deep deep trouble over a scandal of favours for business dealings that could see both of them SACKED from Parliament, it has been labled as ‘Utegate’.

In Kevin Rudd’s bid to dodge fire, deflect and confuse the media reporting on the truth, he is firing furfy’s back at the main accuser Turnbull and getting his team to throw curve balls that looks like keystone cops with contradictory statements of fact and fiction.

One of them MUST go - Kevin Rudd or Wayne Swan.

It may be a dead swan song final curtain call to take the fall for his Kevin bloody Rude.

This is the Scandal of the Century as it involes LIES, DECEPTION, COVER UPS, FRAUD and PROPAGANDA SPIN at its Ruddy Best.

Adam Dunsford’s comments are applicable only if there is an internal Local Area Network Mail Server involved at either end of the email chain BUT my comment that it is very easy to remove an email if both sending and receiving computers have direct access to the internet and they both use Microsoft Outlook STANDS 100% CORRECT. In the case of direct access computers above, there will be traces of emails on the respective ISP’s servers but these are not backed up - just ask your ISP - especially if days have passed.

So, as I said in my posting, lets all keep an open mind until we get the details of how Charlton’s and Grech’s computers were setup to send and receive emails then and only then will we have fact worth speculating on by people who know what they are talking about.

Aren’t there more important things to take up political headlines?

This matter is a textbook example of an issue that stirs up insiders and wonderfully concentrates their minds but is of no concern to the broader population.

Mr Turnbull is refusing to say if anyone in the Liberal Party has ever seen the actual email.

Ok he does not have it but he can quote liberally from it and refuses to say if in fact anyone in the Liberal Party has seen it. Oh really? it appeared at the Senate enquiry on Friday Sen Abetz knew damn well what was in it and Sen Joyce, but he can be discounted as a fool. Turnbull knows he is in deep shite and the game now is evasion, his demeanor tonight was of a mean man, raised voice and looking rattled. There will be a couple of Costello men chuckling with glee

The problem with that is that Godwin Grech thinks he may have been contacted by the PMO, and clearly Labor senators and Grech’s boss wanted to stop him from saying who it was - clearly the answer was going to be Andrew Charlton. So this theory relies on Grech mis-remembering.

There is a variant theory, the subject of a rumour going around today, that Grech may have retained a copy of the email despite deleting it, and leaked it. I don’t suggest this is the case at all - it is pure speculation and not meant to reflect on the man in any way. It doesn’t accord with the fact that, while probably ruining his career by being truthful on Friday afternoon, he specifically said he didn’t have the email, and told Steve Lewis that on Thursday night as well. Grech’s evidence in fact fits none of the theories.

In any event, if the email is a fake, Turnbull, even if he was not responsible for inventing the email, is seriously damaged.

Wayne Swan, meanwhile, is semantically correct when he says he didn’t mislead Parliament but he gave an impression wholly at odds with reality, and over a trivial matter. His judgment must be questioned.

There are two core theories as to what happened and variations thereof.

One is that Rudd was mis-advised when he initially denied to Parliament that his office had made representations, and that having subsequently discovered that, decided to cover it up (alternatively, it is conceivable that one of his staff members is doing this without his knowledge). That would require deletion of the email in some unusual and virtually impossible way from the PM&C servers (originator) and Treasury servers (recipient). It would require the cooperation of Treasury officials and maybe PM&C officials, although that is less clear. It would be a massive cover-up involving politicians, staff and public servants, unprecedented in Australian history, all the more so for being over something so trivial.

A variation is that Rudd and/or his staff are too dumb to know that just because you delete an email from your Deleted Items or use hotmail, it won’t stop it being found, or that someone who would have needed to be involved in the cover-up, like Godwin Grech, would break.

Either way, the email will be come to light and Rudd will either have to resign or will be substantially damaged.

I particularly enjoyed Frank Campbell’s and Tom McLoughlin’s contributions. Kudos

The treatment of Grech by his department head and Labor heavies is a disgrace and indicative of a broader more serious problem. It stands in stark relief especially because Abetz’s patience!

edited

If the evidence is big and impacting you don’t want the theatrics of the conduit to interfere with the reception. And Godwin Grech’s evidence is way up there as impacting.

It all calls up for me the political culture of ex minister Mike Kaiser back to 1999 or so when he was forced to resign after cooking the electioneering paperwork in some way. That bespeaks a corrupt political culture in the Qld ALP, and that’s effectively what is alleged via the Grech evidence.

As they say in the classics - stay tuned ….

That fact Grech was prevented answering whether Mr Grant had been raised with him by Dr Andrew Charlton of the Prime Minister’s Office looks very bad.

It is a simple matter for Grech to be shown the text of the email terms if not the original and see if that “refreshes” his memory in a legal sense.

Certainly his recollection is that PMO contacted him, and he was prevented from responding about Charlton.

None of this turns on the email existing (anymore?) or not, really. What it turns on is whether in fact in some way or other Charlton or other PMO officer contacted Grech contrary to assurances by Rudd.

Even then Rudd is not “gone” because he most likely didn’t “deliberately mislead parliament” to quote Turnbull. But Rudd will have to grovel badly and that will throw a big chunk of his majority away in the polls in the context of all this early election talk. Very inconvenient one might think, and cause for quite some schadenfraude (spelling?) for such as senator Brown himself threatened (if not serious risk of) political termination recently.

As blogged alot this morning, Rudd’s quavering on camera 8.30 pm Fri night abc tv news update was alot different to the smooth (edited?) piece that ran on abc radio news shows next morning. Hope ABC are playing it straight here. Insiders was staunch today I thought.

LOakes went for Swan but methinks Charlton will hide behind staffer immunity and never front media or estimates. More’s the pity. Grech should just tell the truth. The country needs to expose the ALP mates political culture - everywhere. And the Coalition are no better either (AWB anyone?).

…………………….

As for the technology around emails my feeling as amateur, is the IP addresses (DNA of each computer) will be with the ISP even if deleted from hard drives by say Tracks Eraser Pro or similar - refer Majorgeeks website for instance. But then a really good geek can use an IP proxy to lay a false trail. And a really good geek can remotely get into one’s email ….. and delete a select 3 months worth (as happened to me recently, though adding a wireless password obviously helped fix that - ouch).

Way back in web pre history (2003-4) I circulated a geek report to the Australian political community, including then ALP opposition on how malware (still a fairly foreign concept) could hijack and zombify remote computers. It was taken with a grain of salt no doubt. But I thought it was essential democracy work to spread the word at the height of the security paradigm under John Howard pseudo fascist tendencies.

After “Children Overboard”, Mandhu Habib Affair and the very suspect destruction of our last defence minister, ….and now this fake e-mail (would Rudd really be reckless and stupid enough to throw away his political career over this?), can anyone doubt that the Liberal Party has many members of the public service (including the defence force), in their pocket, even when they are in opposition?

I intended to comment in reply to Joel

Thanks for saving me time!