Comments on: Global warming toward the EU’s upper limit

By: Herod

Herod — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:19:52 +0000

Hugh, you miss the point. Ian Plimer is on the other side. I am challenging Andrew to back up his own side - in his own specialty - with answers to the difficult questions about certain climatic events of several thousand years ago. Ian Plimer wouldn’t be interested in providing the answers because he almost certainly agrees with me that palaeoclimate scientists like Andrew who support the IPCC’s views look pretty shifty when asked why the great modelers can’t retopredict those well known and enormous climatic events.

By: Hugh (Charlie) McColl

Hugh (Charlie) McColl — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 03:42:36 +0000

Geez Herod, if you want someone to write a thesis on their personal interpretation of a selection of the literature on some topic of your choice you should just buy a copy of Plimer’s almanac. Haven’t read it myself but I understand it contains the answer to everything scientific in a language even idiots can understand. Best of all, every argument, no matter which side you take, can be won from Plimers pages. Don’t waste your time in Crikey, go straight to the source.

By: Herod

Herod — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:20:13 +0000

Andrew your response, which gives me a long list of links (though actually far less accessible than electronic links), reminds me of litigation in which a party would attempt to hide the truth in a mountain of unsorted discovered documents. You have given a response which is exactly what I pointed to as not useful to answering my questions. You are a palaeoclimate scientist. Surely you can say which of those article prove what and, better still, give the nub of the argument and the gist of the proof in relation to each of the Indus, the Nile/Sahara and the Great Lakes. If you don’t regard those particular cases as relevant and important to the AGW case then you are off the planet and if you are concealing knowledge of the best attempts at explaining those phenomena then I must suspect you of bad faith. If you are going to rely on the list of unclassified articles it would be a help if you were to provide access to them via URL to scanned copies if you can’t give direct electronic access, though, better by far, to give the best answer you can in the terms I requested.

By: Steve Davies

Steve Davies — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:14:15 +0000

“Three million years ago, probably not one species that you’re familiar with on earth today was alive.”

Last time I checked, I believe crocodiles have existed in their current form for 200 million years, sharks for around 60 million years and there are likely numerous other examples.

Why twist facts and words if you are undeniably correct?

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:01:42 +0000

Anyone who is intereested in the nature of past and present climate changes, whether during the last few hundreds of millions of years, or during the glacial/interglacial eras, or the Holocene - including the rise and fall of civilizations due to changes in rivr flow regimes (Nile, Indus, Euphrates), only has to consult the vast scientific literature which exists in this regard. Below I list some up-to-date literature.

Some essential references:

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during the last glacial cycle. Nature 2003; 423: 853-58.
Hansen J, Sato M, Ruedy R, Lacis A, Oinas V. Global warming in
the twenty-first century: An alternative scenario. Proc Natl Acad
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By: Herod

Herod — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 10:58:58 +0000

I’m glad to learn that you are a palaeoclimate scientist Andrew because the continued failure of those waring of AGW’s dangers to meet the simple test of retroprediction - often enough put to them - leaves me with my biggest doubts about the supposed scientific consensus. What, please, is the best answer you can give - with a plethora of links only used as subsidiary to the argument you put - to the need for any convincing model of climate change to explain 1. the collapse of the first Indus civilisation; 2. the collapse of the Egyptian Old Kingdom under the effects of drought drying up the Nile and turning the Sahara finally and forever (until now anyway) into desert; 3. the drying up of the Great Lakes of North America - all of these well after the end of the last Ice Age? If, as seems reasonable to presume in the absence of convincing contrary evidence, the global atmostpheric temperature was much higher leading in to these catastrophic climatic outcomes, why was there not a runaway feedback effect such as is now at the heart of the most doom laden predictions for the 21st century?

One or two good links you might provide however: anything showing reliably the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere by, say 100 year averages, for the last 10 million years or so. Any correlated measurements of global temperatures and ice coverage would be welcome too.

By: James Bennett

James Bennett — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:25:10 +0000

You could be right Andrew .

In fact a man who can extrapolate and interpret figures to predict variable open ended futures can’t really be proved wrong.
I’m guessing that’s why you claim vaguely ‘Given that warnings by climate scientists have proven correct’ etc.

However the important thing at the moment is the Swine Flu.
Could you possibly use your science to help the over 350 australians who have been struck down in this global warming pandemic. These people are suffering from sore eyes, runny noses and yes … increased temperatures.

Do you think these people ( who are probably exhaling slightly warmer CO2 ) are adding to the Global Warming problem and deserve vilification or are victims like those poor polar bears ( and the people with expensive beach front houses).

These people need your help now Andrew , they don’t have time to wait for that Russian roulette solution although i do think that might work.