Comments on: Cut out and keep map to 26,000 clean energy jobs nationwide http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:27:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Herod http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27375 Herod Tue, 26 May 2009 21:59:22 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27375 I can't read suggestions about Green jobs doing great things for our economy without reflecting what a brilliant job creator it would be to harness a million people to a static bicycyle power generator (remember too those Egyptian pyramind builders didn't have an unemployment problem). Greens would do still better because they would invest at least three times as much per megawatt of capacity as is required for coal-fired power stations. How silly of us to suppose that the Industrial Revolution and its further contemporary developments benefited us by making it possible for much more to be done with many few person hours work..... I can’t read suggestions about Green jobs doing great things for our economy without reflecting what a brilliant job creator it would be to harness a million people to a static bicycyle power generator (remember too those Egyptian pyramind builders didn’t have an unemployment problem). Greens would do still better because they would invest at least three times as much per megawatt of capacity as is required for coal-fired power stations.

How silly of us to suppose that the Industrial Revolution and its further contemporary developments benefited us by making it possible for much more to be done with many few person hours work…..

]]> By: Robert Ross http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27359 Robert Ross Tue, 26 May 2009 11:07:26 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27359 Your map shows a 30 MW bagasse power station at Pambula on the Far South Coast in NSW. It would be nice to have it, but the nearest bagasse is probably 700 km further north. However there is a booming new industry at Pambula, installing solar voltaic and solar hws in the region. I suggest you ask for your money back... the map is up the wattle! Bob Ross Your map shows a 30 MW bagasse power station at Pambula on the Far South Coast in NSW. It would be nice to have it, but the nearest bagasse is probably 700 km further north. However there is a booming new industry at Pambula, installing solar voltaic and solar hws in the region.

I suggest you ask for your money back… the map is up the wattle!

Bob Ross

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27356 Tom McLoughlin Tue, 26 May 2009 10:31:21 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27356 Carbon capture sequestration is supported by the Rudd ALP, 'greenie' Peter Garrett too (who we assume also supports the next big uranium mine approval in WA, and expansion of Roxby Downs to a massive open cut U mine). Not surprisingly the Climate Institute so beloved of the Rudd ALP also support Carbon Capture Sequestration. Because if they didn't they couldn't play with Big Govt and that's where they are at fundamentally. Senator Milne calls it the Stockholm Sydnrome. It's got nothing to do with science or principle. It's about brute real politik to capture the green voice for the ALP ... if they can. When it comes to survival of the species methinks democracy and the ecological crisis are way too big for these ALP tricks and illusions. Rollout the thermal solar and geo thermal nationally - anytime now would be just fine. Carbon capture sequestration is supported by the Rudd ALP, ‘greenie’ Peter Garrett too (who we assume also supports the next big uranium mine approval in WA, and expansion of Roxby Downs to a massive open cut U mine).

Not surprisingly the Climate Institute so beloved of the Rudd ALP also support Carbon Capture Sequestration. Because if they didn’t they couldn’t play with Big Govt and that’s where they are at fundamentally. Senator Milne calls it the Stockholm Sydnrome. It’s got nothing to do with science or principle. It’s about brute real politik to capture the green voice for the ALP … if they can.

When it comes to survival of the species methinks democracy and the ecological crisis are way too big for these ALP tricks and illusions. Rollout the thermal solar and geo thermal nationally - anytime now would be just fine.

]]> By: MichaelT http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27349 MichaelT Tue, 26 May 2009 08:54:28 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27349 Hang on a second - this doesn't add up. If there are going to be 120% more jobs in the coal industry under an ETS, how does this result in cutting our emissions? More coal workers = more coal = more emissions, doesn't it? The only way around this would be through universal adoption of some kind of clean coal technology that hasn't been implemented in a real world commercial scenario yet. Hang on a second - this doesn’t add up. If there are going to be 120% more jobs in the coal industry under an ETS, how does this result in cutting our emissions? More coal workers = more coal = more emissions, doesn’t it? The only way around this would be through universal adoption of some kind of clean coal technology that hasn’t been implemented in a real world commercial scenario yet.

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27342 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 07:53:14 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27342 Joel B1 - I might just convert you yet. In regard to your comment "no need for a pulp mill now" - I hope the Tasmanian pollies take notice of that! Re the power station? I shall do MY research on that one and ask John want he actually meant by his comments. Great sparing with you. Joel B1 - I might just convert you yet. In regard to your comment “no need for a pulp mill now” - I hope the Tasmanian pollies take notice of that! Re the power station? I shall do MY research on that one and ask John want he actually meant by his comments. Great sparing with you.

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27340 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 07:43:15 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27340 Denise, OK, it sounds interesting! I'll take a look. But re the no brains bit I did kinda notice a bl**dy big power station had moved 200km providing much needed employment in the Tamar Valley, so no need for a pulp mill now! Except the power station hasn't actually moved... Bit of a pro-green spin there on John Connor's part maybe? Denise,
OK, it sounds interesting! I’ll take a look.

But re the no brains bit I did kinda notice a bl**dy big power station had moved 200km providing much needed employment in the Tamar Valley, so no need for a pulp mill now!

Except the power station hasn’t actually moved… Bit of a pro-green spin there on John Connor’s part maybe?

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27338 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 07:31:46 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27338 Joel B1 - yes of course I mean industrial hemp and as I said - do your research you will find that those problems existed years ago we now have machines and new methods for processing that solves that problem. Industrial hemp makes fibreboard three times stronger than any wood, bio fuel (hemp ethanol) paper, fibreglass like product, textiles, oils, soap - etc etc etc - I can only guess when you were younger your interest was in the other form of hemp not industrial hemp - otherwise you would have the brains to do your research of what is happening in the industry today. Joel B1 - yes of course I mean industrial hemp and as I said - do your research you will find that those problems existed years ago we now have machines and new methods for processing that solves that problem. Industrial hemp makes fibreboard three times stronger than any wood, bio fuel (hemp ethanol) paper, fibreglass like product, textiles, oils, soap - etc etc etc - I can only guess when you were younger your interest was in the other form of hemp not industrial hemp - otherwise you would have the brains to do your research of what is happening in the industry today.

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27335 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 07:22:08 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27335 Denise, By "Natural Fibre Industry" you mean cotton? I'm all for it! Just kidding. I suspect you might mean Hemp(?). As someone who might have had a passing interest in this subject when younger I can confidently say Hemp is crap, it's fibres are too long and too coarse, that's why they make ropes out of it not clothes. Denise,
By “Natural Fibre Industry” you mean cotton? I’m all for it! Just kidding.

I suspect you might mean Hemp(?). As someone who might have had a passing interest in this subject when younger I can confidently say Hemp is crap, it’s fibres are too long and too coarse, that’s why they make ropes out of it not clothes.

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27334 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 07:14:08 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27334 Joel B1 - your right you do rant - one cant tell whether you are for or against greens jobs! And yes I would do any green job that was to do with a Natural Fibre Industry - do your research on this industry - you will find that it is the answer and will provide a myriad of green jobs in myriad of industries. Joel B1 - your right you do rant - one cant tell whether you are for or against greens jobs! And yes I would do any green job that was to do with a Natural Fibre Industry - do your research on this industry - you will find that it is the answer and will provide a myriad of green jobs in myriad of industries.

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27333 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 07:13:27 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27333 Joel B1 - your right you do rant - one cant tell whether you are for or against greens jobs! And yed I would do any green job that was to do with a Natural Fibre Industry - do your research on this industry - you will find that it is the answer and will provide a myriad of green jobs in myriad of industries. Joel B1 - your right you do rant - one cant tell whether you are for or against greens jobs! And yed I would do any green job that was to do with a Natural Fibre Industry - do your research on this industry - you will find that it is the answer and will provide a myriad of green jobs in myriad of industries.

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27326 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 06:35:36 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27326 Ok, more research. And this is serious mum! According to the Clean Energy Job Map there is a clean green hydro plant near the mouth of the Tamar River, just near George Town and sort of near the new Gunns Pulp-Mill. This is what the map says: "Reece Technology Hydro Primary Fuel Hydro Status Existing Size (MW) 231 Average Output (GWh) 940 Direct Employment 15 Construction Employment 250" Sorry, it doesn't exist! It's just not there! That power station is on the West Coast of Tasmania some 200 km away on the Pieman River. (Corrina is on the Pieman so you can get an idea on the incorrect clean green map) It's simple basic elementary mistakes like this that show me how full of poo these people really are. So what percentage of these clean green jobs actually exist? Look it up "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Power_Station,_Tasmania" Ok, more research. And this is serious mum!

According to the Clean Energy Job Map there is a clean green hydro plant near the mouth of the Tamar River, just near George Town and sort of near the new Gunns Pulp-Mill. This is what the map says:

“Reece
Technology Hydro
Primary Fuel Hydro
Status Existing
Size (MW) 231
Average Output (GWh) 940
Direct Employment 15
Construction Employment 250”

Sorry, it doesn’t exist! It’s just not there! That power station is on the West Coast of Tasmania some 200 km away on the Pieman River. (Corrina is on the Pieman so you can get an idea on the incorrect clean green map)

It’s simple basic elementary mistakes like this that show me how full of poo these people really are. So what percentage of these clean green jobs actually exist?

Look it up “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Power_Station,_Tasmania”

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27324 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 06:20:18 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27324 @Denise "because you have a Government that is held captive to Gunns, the multi nationals and petro-chemical companies" you forgot the Martians... @Denise

“because you have a Government that is held captive to Gunns, the multi nationals and petro-chemical companies”

you forgot the Martians…

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27322 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 06:16:53 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27322 @Denise, This is a real question, I'm curious... How many jobs in your area, on this map, that you would personally be prepared to do? @Denise,
This is a real question, I’m curious…
How many jobs in your area, on this map, that you would personally be prepared to do?

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27321 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 06:14:23 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27321 @Denise, did you read my comment about the Greens having a go at Gunns for wanting to build biomass plants, just like the one that's on this map? @Denise, did you read my comment about the Greens having a go at Gunns for wanting to build biomass plants, just like the one that’s on this map?

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27320 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 06:13:03 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27320 Oh no! this is too much! Just expanded the "map to our clean green future" and saw all these clean green projects up the Derwent Valley! That's fantastic I thought, they look a bit familiar though.. Hang on, I have heard of these before; Meadowbank, Cluny, Repulse, Catagunya, Wayatina, Liapootah, Tungatinah, Tarraleah and Nieterana. That's right! they're all existing Hydro Tasmania dams and power-stations. You know, like the ones the Greens won't let us build anymore... Oh no! this is too much!

Just expanded the “map to our clean green future” and saw all these clean green projects up the Derwent Valley! That’s fantastic I thought, they look a bit familiar though..

Hang on, I have heard of these before; Meadowbank, Cluny, Repulse, Catagunya, Wayatina, Liapootah, Tungatinah, Tarraleah and Nieterana.

That’s right! they’re all existing Hydro Tasmania dams and power-stations. You know, like the ones the Greens won’t let us build anymore…

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27319 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 06:11:07 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27319 Joel B1 - the reason why there are so few "green" jobs in Tasmania is because you have a Government that is held captive to Gunns, the multi nationals and petro-chemical companies....and the Libs would be exactly the same if they were in power. Joel B1 - the reason why there are so few “green” jobs in Tasmania is because you have a Government that is held captive to Gunns, the multi nationals and petro-chemical companies….and the Libs would be exactly the same if they were in power.

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27308 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 05:38:01 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27308 The "clean" description is a bit of a misnomer. The two (2) existing Clean Green jobs in Hobart are at tips! (and they stink, I know, I live near one). Anyway on with the rant: Within 1 hour drive of Hobart (where I live, any further to drive and you may as well move to Melbourne or Sydney and get the benefits of a big city) there are three (3) existing landfill gas plants and one (1) wood biomass gas plant. They currently employ two (2) people. (And it must be a shit job, I live near one of those plants and the alarm is always going off at 3am in the morning, so up gets the worker in the freezing Hobart cold to go reset it at the tip) So that's two (2) existing clean green jobs in Hobart both working at a tip. That's it. There are two clean jobs in Hobart... There is another planned landfill biomass plant at Glenorchy tip, so one (1) more job there. Down south, in Huonville (50 min drive) there's a planned native forest fed biomass plant that will employ 21 people. When Gunns wanted to set up some wood fed biomass plants like the one in Huonville the Greens here in Tasmania dismissed it as "ridiculous" (that's from memory). They said "Gunns should leave the conservation to people who really care about the forests and planet", so a nice bit of hypocrisy there from the Greens. Basically, I'm underwhelmed, three clean green jobs in the greater Hobart area, all at stinking landfills. Typical bl**dy green b*llshit. The “clean” description is a bit of a misnomer. The two (2) existing Clean Green jobs in Hobart are at tips! (and they stink, I know, I live near one).

Anyway on with the rant:

Within 1 hour drive of Hobart (where I live, any further to drive and you may as well move to Melbourne or Sydney and get the benefits of a big city) there are three (3) existing landfill gas plants and one (1) wood biomass gas plant.

They currently employ two (2) people. (And it must be a shit job, I live near one of those plants and the alarm is always going off at 3am in the morning, so up gets the worker in the freezing Hobart cold to go reset it at the tip)

So that’s two (2) existing clean green jobs in Hobart both working at a tip. That’s it. There are two clean jobs in Hobart… There is another planned landfill biomass plant at Glenorchy tip, so one (1) more job there.

Down south, in Huonville (50 min drive) there’s a planned native forest fed biomass plant that will employ 21 people. When Gunns wanted to set up some wood fed biomass plants like the one in Huonville the Greens here in Tasmania dismissed it as “ridiculous” (that’s from memory). They said “Gunns should leave the conservation to people who really care about the forests and planet”, so a nice bit of hypocrisy there from the Greens.

Basically, I’m underwhelmed, three clean green jobs in the greater Hobart area, all at stinking landfills. Typical bl**dy green b*llshit.

]]> By: Stuart Moore http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27303 Stuart Moore Tue, 26 May 2009 05:00:29 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27303 Obscure how energy sector consultants ignore the best interests of the client by failing to advise: (a) that the key drivers of climatic variation are for all intents and purposes beyond the control of 'joe average', (b) that carbon dioxide is a relatively very minor player in this game relative to water vapour, (c) that the impact of increased carbon dioxide from present levels decreases logarithmically with increasing concentration, (d)that unless atmospheric carbon concentrations are reduced to very low levels, say below 100ppm which is arguably near impossible, there will no significant measurable impact on 'climate' distinguishable from the effects of much larger scale processes, and finally, (e) that carbon per se is NOT a poison (if it was we would all be dead because we are made of it!), so therfore, (f) the best thing to do is discard the whole ETS as proposed and concentrate on the REAL pollutants that are readily locatable on most Dangerous and Hazardous Goods listings. Obscure how energy sector consultants ignore the best interests of the client by failing to advise:
(a) that the key drivers of climatic variation are for all intents and purposes beyond the control of ‘joe average’,
(b) that carbon dioxide is a relatively very minor player in this game relative to water vapour,
(c) that the impact of increased carbon dioxide from present levels decreases logarithmically with increasing concentration,
(d)that unless atmospheric carbon concentrations are reduced to very low levels, say below 100ppm which is arguably near impossible, there will no significant measurable impact on ‘climate’ distinguishable from the effects of much larger scale processes, and finally,
(e) that carbon per se is NOT a poison (if it was we would all be dead because we are made of it!), so therfore,
(f) the best thing to do is discard the whole ETS as proposed and concentrate on the REAL pollutants that are readily locatable on most Dangerous and Hazardous Goods listings.

]]> By: denise allen http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27293 denise allen Tue, 26 May 2009 04:30:23 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27293 And if Australian Governments of all persuasions embrace a Natural Fibre Industry especially industrial hemp - there will be thousands of more jobs as well. The NFI will save the forestry, paper and textiles industries across this country. All we need is the political will from Governments and unions. And if Australian Governments of all persuasions embrace a Natural Fibre Industry especially industrial hemp - there will be thousands of more jobs as well. The NFI will save the forestry, paper and textiles industries across this country. All we need is the political will from Governments and unions.

]]> By: John Bennetts http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27290 John Bennetts Tue, 26 May 2009 04:02:45 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27290 What's with the Firefox/Mozilla graphics? What’s with the Firefox/Mozilla graphics?

]]> By: Joel B1 http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/26/need-a-job-a-cut-out-and-keep-map-to-26000-clean-energy-jobs-nationwide/#comment-27286 Joel B1 Tue, 26 May 2009 03:54:20 +0000 http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=61321#comment-27286 That's as nice a bit of satire as I've ever read. Still laughing! That’s as nice a bit of satire as I’ve ever read. Still laughing!

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