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	<title>Comments on: Coalition stymies donations transparency. Again.</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/</link>
	<description>now with extra source</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:48:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: JamesK'</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4957</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesK'</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4957</guid>
		<description>Err..... thanks Dave...... I think..... although I suspect you are rather more &#039;gullible&#039; when it comes to views expressed from the left side of politics!  Not that that implies that there&#039;s anything wrong with the left side of politics. (There is, in fact, much wrong with the left side of politics. However my point didn&#039;t presuppose it).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This article unilaterally lambasts the Liberal party and Senator Ronaldson in particular.  I have followed Bernard Keane&#039;s articles on this topic and his fervour is evident.  I remain unconvinced that his disdain is justified. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In particular, if a caustic and sweeping criticism is made of the opposite side of politics to the author&#039;s then natural justice dictates that their argument are fairly presented.There was not even a cursory effort today to even suggest that the Liberal party had an argument despite the vicious rhetoric. Moreover: &quot;Fielding, at least, had a sort of reason why he blocked the bill&quot; says the Liberals had no argument at all. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bernard&#039;s point that he did not want to waste our time rehashing old Liberal arguments that he&#039;d presented before is disingenuous at best and wilfully dishonest at worst. Neither does it mitigate the criticism inherent in my original comment. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am all for a transparency; without it democracy fails.  Apple pie is good and all that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would have liked Bernard to explain what Senator Ronaldson means when he says: &quot;This issue is too serious to be debased by having cherry picked legislation&quot; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What serious campaign finance reform is Labor leaving out Bernard?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is Ronaldson right? Is this fair? Is there a bigger picture?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;ll bet there is! &lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err&#8230;.. thanks Dave&#8230;&#8230; I think&#8230;.. although I suspect you are rather more &#8216;gullible&#8217; when it comes to views expressed from the left side of politics!  Not that that implies that there&#8217;s anything wrong with the left side of politics. (There is, in fact, much wrong with the left side of politics. However my point didn&#8217;t presuppose it).</p>
<p>This article unilaterally lambasts the Liberal party and Senator Ronaldson in particular.  I have followed Bernard Keane&#8217;s articles on this topic and his fervour is evident.  I remain unconvinced that his disdain is justified. </p>
<p>In particular, if a caustic and sweeping criticism is made of the opposite side of politics to the author&#8217;s then natural justice dictates that their argument are fairly presented.There was not even a cursory effort today to even suggest that the Liberal party had an argument despite the vicious rhetoric. Moreover: &#8220;Fielding, at least, had a sort of reason why he blocked the bill&#8221; says the Liberals had no argument at all. </p>
<p>Bernard&#8217;s point that he did not want to waste our time rehashing old Liberal arguments that he&#8217;d presented before is disingenuous at best and wilfully dishonest at worst. Neither does it mitigate the criticism inherent in my original comment. </p>
<p>I am all for a transparency; without it democracy fails.  Apple pie is good and all that.</p>
<p>I would have liked Bernard to explain what Senator Ronaldson means when he says: &#8220;This issue is too serious to be debased by having cherry picked legislation&#8221; </p>
<p>What serious campaign finance reform is Labor leaving out Bernard?</p>
<p>Is Ronaldson right? Is this fair? Is there a bigger picture?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet there is! </p>
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		<title>By: Roger Gestetner</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4958</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Gestetner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4958</guid>
		<description>ahhhh, steve fielding, always true to his principles - none at all - and to his puppet masters in the seats to the left of the senate president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahhhh, steve fielding, always true to his principles - none at all - and to his puppet masters in the seats to the left of the senate president.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Keane</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4959</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Keane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4959</guid>
		<description>AHEM.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For those who have waded through my previous efforts on this issue, I&#039;ve discussed the nonsensical basis on which the Coalition bases its opposition - the claim that a high threshold is required because union bogeymen will smash their way into small businesses and threaten them if it is revealed they donated to the Liberal Party.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No single example of this piece of anti-union Grand Guignol has ever been produced, and the AEC has specifically addressed the issue in its submission on the bill., rejecting it outright.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If subscribers wish, I can write every article from first principles and assume no one has ever read anything here before. It&#039;ll make things longer and more tedious - even more tedious in my case - but if it helps...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AHEM.</p>
<p>For those who have waded through my previous efforts on this issue, I&#8217;ve discussed the nonsensical basis on which the Coalition bases its opposition - the claim that a high threshold is required because union bogeymen will smash their way into small businesses and threaten them if it is revealed they donated to the Liberal Party.</p>
<p>No single example of this piece of anti-union Grand Guignol has ever been produced, and the AEC has specifically addressed the issue in its submission on the bill., rejecting it outright.</p>
<p>If subscribers wish, I can write every article from first principles and assume no one has ever read anything here before. It&#8217;ll make things longer and more tedious - even more tedious in my case - but if it helps&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JamesK'</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4960</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesK'</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4960</guid>
		<description>Apart from providing the “Labor has only itself to blame” quote, Bernard Keane has not reported a single Coalition argument in support of their stance in the Senate.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Perhaps because Bernard is unable to provide a rebuttal to their assertions?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Those evil Liberals..... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from providing the “Labor has only itself to blame” quote, Bernard Keane has not reported a single Coalition argument in support of their stance in the Senate.  </p>
<p>Perhaps because Bernard is unable to provide a rebuttal to their assertions?</p>
<p>Those evil Liberals&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Warwick Capper</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4961</link>
		<dc:creator>Warwick Capper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4961</guid>
		<description>Makes you wonder whether the Liberals have any valid arguments at all in favour of keeping the threshold at $10k.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes you wonder whether the Liberals have any valid arguments at all in favour of keeping the threshold at $10k.</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi Cartledge</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4962</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi Cartledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4962</guid>
		<description>As a resident of NSW, and taking into account the alledged disgraceful acts of corruption in both Wollongong and Shellharbour Municipalities (the ALP State Govt sacked them both - we&#039;ve been denied our democratic right to elect our Councillors) and the evidence during the Inquiry into developers allegedly  making hefty donations to the ALP, the Liberal Party in NSW came out castigating the ALP. On reflection, and with the figures subsequently published, the Liberals were as bad or worse. The screams from Liberal Leader Barry O&#039;Farrell were of righteous anger. They have gone very quiet of late, and their response to this disgraceful action by their federal counterparts and Fielding has not raised a wimper! No wonder they have such little respect in the community.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We hear the mantra of the MInister for Police for example, when draconian laws are introduced into the Parliament (also NSW) that give police more access to deny peoples&#039; basic rights, that &#039;if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear&#039;? When this same argument is shot home to the federal conservatives over this instance, not a viable argument can be made. This is the first time and place that I&#039;ve learned of this disgraceful action. Why is that? So much for a robust media, vitally important for a workable democracy. I&#039;m disgusted, yet again! They are proving on a daily basis, that they have no scruples, no morals and should hang their heads in shame! Thank you Crikey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a resident of NSW, and taking into account the alledged disgraceful acts of corruption in both Wollongong and Shellharbour Municipalities (the ALP State Govt sacked them both - we&#8217;ve been denied our democratic right to elect our Councillors) and the evidence during the Inquiry into developers allegedly  making hefty donations to the ALP, the Liberal Party in NSW came out castigating the ALP. On reflection, and with the figures subsequently published, the Liberals were as bad or worse. The screams from Liberal Leader Barry O&#8217;Farrell were of righteous anger. They have gone very quiet of late, and their response to this disgraceful action by their federal counterparts and Fielding has not raised a wimper! No wonder they have such little respect in the community.</p>
<p>We hear the mantra of the MInister for Police for example, when draconian laws are introduced into the Parliament (also NSW) that give police more access to deny peoples&#8217; basic rights, that &#8216;if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear&#8217;? When this same argument is shot home to the federal conservatives over this instance, not a viable argument can be made. This is the first time and place that I&#8217;ve learned of this disgraceful action. Why is that? So much for a robust media, vitally important for a workable democracy. I&#8217;m disgusted, yet again! They are proving on a daily basis, that they have no scruples, no morals and should hang their heads in shame! Thank you Crikey!</p>
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		<title>By: Oie </title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4963</link>
		<dc:creator>Oie </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4963</guid>
		<description>Unfucking believable! This should be screaming from the front page of every paper in town. I hope crikey is going to go to Fielding and confront him </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfucking believable! This should be screaming from the front page of every paper in town. I hope crikey is going to go to Fielding and confront him</p>
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		<title>By: Joel B1, but lets face it you post-hoc darling.</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4964</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel B1, but lets face it you post-hoc darling.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4964</guid>
		<description>You Crikey dudes sure know how to waffle.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So the $96 million sent OS to magically help Australia&#039;s economic recovery doesn&#039;t rate?&lt;br /&gt;Bernard, being a day behind the news sure allows for smart-arse comments but let&#039;s face it you&#039;re post-hoc darling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; For you Labor supporters that means like &quot;in hindsight&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You Crikey dudes sure know how to waffle.</p>
<p>So the $96 million sent OS to magically help Australia&#8217;s economic recovery doesn&#8217;t rate?<br />Bernard, being a day behind the news sure allows for smart-arse comments but let&#8217;s face it you&#8217;re post-hoc darling.</p>
<p> For you Labor supporters that means like &#8220;in hindsight&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Liberts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4965</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Liberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4965</guid>
		<description>JamesK raises a good point - I encourage all readers to check out the source material:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds110309.pdf&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;and decide for themselves whether it is the ALP or the Libs whose arguements seem sounder. The Libs come out better in Hansard than they do in Bernard&#039;s article, but I still feel their arguements are not sound reasons to have opposed this measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JamesK raises a good point - I encourage all readers to check out the source material:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds110309.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds110309.pdf</a></p>
<p>and decide for themselves whether it is the ALP or the Libs whose arguements seem sounder. The Libs come out better in Hansard than they do in Bernard&#8217;s article, but I still feel their arguements are not sound reasons to have opposed this measure.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Liberts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4966</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Liberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4966</guid>
		<description>Good article. Sure, the Libs will do worse under the proposed changes than the ALP, but the public interest lies with supporting this bill. Fielding looks dumber and dumber with each passing tight Senate ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article. Sure, the Libs will do worse under the proposed changes than the ALP, but the public interest lies with supporting this bill. Fielding looks dumber and dumber with each passing tight Senate ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: Ev</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4967</link>
		<dc:creator>Ev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4967</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link Dave, gee whiz they go on with a load of crap in Parliament don&#039;t they? (p24 onwards for those with the stomach for it)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seems to me the Libs are doing the classic &quot;be seen to be doing something&quot; approach, rather than changing legislation. Their only defense was that they want a full inquiry into all electoral goings on before they will approve this ammendment. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I disagree. The threshold was changed under Howard, and should be changed back. This bill seeks to achieve that. The libs are blocking it, for no definitive reason, but just because they want a more wide ranging inquiry. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m calling their bluff, and they deserve to be dragged through the coals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link Dave, gee whiz they go on with a load of crap in Parliament don&#8217;t they? (p24 onwards for those with the stomach for it)</p>
<p>Seems to me the Libs are doing the classic &#8220;be seen to be doing something&#8221; approach, rather than changing legislation. Their only defense was that they want a full inquiry into all electoral goings on before they will approve this ammendment. </p>
<p>I disagree. The threshold was changed under Howard, and should be changed back. This bill seeks to achieve that. The libs are blocking it, for no definitive reason, but just because they want a more wide ranging inquiry. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m calling their bluff, and they deserve to be dragged through the coals.</p>
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		<title>By: Graemel</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4968</link>
		<dc:creator>Graemel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4968</guid>
		<description>Yes jamesk gets close to the mark when he asks the question&quot;what serious campaign finance reform is labor leaving out?&quot; The answer is quite obvious - third party support.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no question that whatever Labor might report under the existing or the proposed legislation, they have no intention of having to report the millions of dollars of corporate and other support that has been and will be provided by the Unions. This support is not and is not intended to be caught, as far as I can see, and yet it dwarfs what Labor has and will report. This is the hypocrisy of the Faulkner amendments, and that is why the Faulkner approach should not proceed until true transparency is sought and achieved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes jamesk gets close to the mark when he asks the question&#8221;what serious campaign finance reform is labor leaving out?&#8221; The answer is quite obvious - third party support.</p>
<p>There is no question that whatever Labor might report under the existing or the proposed legislation, they have no intention of having to report the millions of dollars of corporate and other support that has been and will be provided by the Unions. This support is not and is not intended to be caught, as far as I can see, and yet it dwarfs what Labor has and will report. This is the hypocrisy of the Faulkner amendments, and that is why the Faulkner approach should not proceed until true transparency is sought and achieved.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Liberts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/12/coalition-stymies-donations-transparency-again/#comment-4969</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Liberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4969</guid>
		<description>Mea culpa Bernard, I just get sucked in by JamesK EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! (Seriously, JamesK&#039;s contribution today did actually seem reasonable to me, but I subsequently failed to notice your links to previous articles on the issue so my second comment was unfair to you).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also apols to Ev - I&#039;ve talked about the public interest but subsequently linked to Senate Hansard without adding that you need to go to page 24, thus exposing the public to some pretty dodgy rants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mea culpa Bernard, I just get sucked in by JamesK EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! (Seriously, JamesK&#8217;s contribution today did actually seem reasonable to me, but I subsequently failed to notice your links to previous articles on the issue so my second comment was unfair to you).</p>
<p>Also apols to Ev - I&#8217;ve talked about the public interest but subsequently linked to Senate Hansard without adding that you need to go to page 24, thus exposing the public to some pretty dodgy rants.</p>
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