Comments on: Afghanistan — so why are we there again?

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Like John Pilger: how utterly predictable! What would you have had us do in 2001. Leave the Taliban and al Qaida in place? And if not, when would you have ended it?

You are just utterly bereft of insight, Phil, and would rather piss in on the tent with not the least advice rather than to just leave the tent.

If only, if only, Iraq had not been invaded, much of those trillions would have gone into reconstruction, alternative sources of cash crops, form opium, genuine civil society and democracy projects.

Then the Taliban would have been rolled back like the medieval murderers they are. It's not too late to change tack; and it's not too late to change your own mind and think up some realistic policies.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

During the election season, John McCain said he knew how to get bin Laden. Why doesn’t Obama just ask his old rival where the bugger is??!

By: James O'Neill

James O'Neill — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

It is long past the time when there was a serious analysis of why Australia is in Afghanistan. That analysis might start with some historical accuracy about how the Carter administration provided billions of dollars to subvert the Afghan government before the Soviet intervention. that in turn provided a justificaiton for the recruitment of 100,000 mujihadeen (including bin Laden) to fight the Soviet army. The Soviets left in 1989. the Taliban funded and advised by the CIA and ISI did not take power until 1995. The Taliban then instituted by Western standards a reign of terror. None of this bothered Washington who until 1999 was paying the salary of every Taliban government official.
That arrangement would probably have continued had it not been for Unocal's desire to have a pipeline from Central Asia across Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Indian Ocean. The Taliban refused the deal and in July 2001 the final decision was made by the Americans to attack Afghanistan. The events of 11/9/01 provided the pretext, but that is all it was.
Even if bin Laden was responsible for "9/11" (and there is compelling evidence he was not) it would not have been justified in internaitonal law and Article 51 of the UN Charter to attack them. The FBI doesn't have, in their words, any "hard evidence" linking OBL to 9/11. The White paper promised by Powell was rescinded by Bush the next day. The Blair government admitted its paper would not stand up in a court of law.
In short the whole intervention was based on a lie, is in breach of international law, and does nothing to further Australia's real interests.
It is an enduring disgrace that Australia is involved in an illegal war based on a lie and even more disgraceful that our supine media do not call the government on their misguided policies.

By: Bohemian

Bohemian — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Great article Jeff!
This is exactly my point. If some brave soul (where are you Bob Brown?) would actually stand up in Parliament and ask the Govt or even the Opposition the question;
What are we doing in Afghanistan, I doubt that they could tell you. This in my view, is another example of a no-win war designed to distract the populous from the true agenda of global financial usurpation. Afghanistan is Big Oil’s pipeline problem not ours; so why are we proxy mercenaries for those guys or any other corporation for that matter? I used to believe it was in our interests to support America but American hegemony is out of control and I don’t believe we need to be part of Brzezinski war plan for Russia and China which, if you read any of his books is got to be where this is heading. The idea of the Australian Army on search and destroy missions all over Central and East Asia as some de facto NATO bully does not fit with my idea of what Australia is all about, nor what the West should be all about.

So why isn’t anyone asking what exactly are we doing in Afghanistan? Hint. When the Taliban were in control, the poppy crop had just about been destroyed except for that small area controlled by our friends from the Northern Alliance. Now that NATO is back in control, the poppy crop is bigger than ever.
So, what are we doing in Afghanistan Mr. Rudd?

By: gArY jOhnSoN

gArY jOhnSoN — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

obama is still spruikin the tired ol bush line..ie..bin laden this or bin laden that... or al quaida this or al quaida that... does anyone these days really believe they actually exist///?/?

in afghanistan it is not about da oil pipeline and it is not even about the poppie business it is about murdering Pashtuns

which people filled up gitmo jail?//?...the Pashtuns, which minority group is persecuted by da punjabis??//...da Pashtuns, which minority groups is bombed daily by the pakistani airforce?/?/....da Pashtuns, when you read in da paper about all the innocent men women and children are daily subject of mistaken fire they are Pashtuns and are murdered and maimed for no reason and when this not happening they are being starved and maltreated

i wish our leaders would stop saying dat we are in afghanistan for our own protection dat is far can bullshit....are we stupid//?/ most Pashtuns are anti taliban and want to live in peace and love other peoples children as much as their own children but the lines between Pashtun and taliban are purposely blurred and nobody batts an eyelid

By: Jan

Jan — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Afraid Jeff’s comments run the risk of the simplicity of other comments which support additional Australian and international troops as THE answer in Afghanistan. In saying that I suspect that, as frontline soldiers are often the most pragmatic about the war they are involved in, many Australian soldiers may also see Australian involvement as political rather than military. However, it would be useful for Australia to use its modest military contribution to argue for wider diplomatic moves as well and, as some experts argue, that would mean the US dealing with countries they don’t like, like Iran, or countries with whom they are wary, like China. There’s an excellent argument why diplomacy and not merely arms is critical, by Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid and US Afghan expert Barnett Rubin in a recent edition of Foreign Affairs “From Great Game to Grand Bargain”
: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20081001faessay87603/barnett-r-rubin-ahmed-rashid/from-great-game-to-grand-bargain.html
Yes, I guess it is easy to sit in Australia and grandly proclaim Afghanistan’s future is going to be like its past. Depends on how one defines ‘past’. In contemporary history foreign invasion and civil war have wrecked the place, its more distant medieval past much more impressive. Nonetheless there are ordinary Afghans sweating their lives for a better future for their kids; difficult when, even without a war, Afghanistan has some might social and economic problems. The ‘war’ is excacerbating all of them.

By: AR

AR — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

JamesO'N provides an accurate analysis of the origins of the current imbroglio and VeniseA our sorry history as the Prussians of the Pacific (though you omitted Korea).
One small point Jeff, re "Australia’s intervention, which seems to be entirely based on tracking down and killing a hardcore of extremists".
They don't need to be tracked down - they'll attack foreign troops invading their country.
As would we, one hopes.

By: James O'Neill

James O'Neill — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Daniel:
There is very good evidence that if they want to find bin Laden they will need to bring a shovel. However given his crucial role as the Emannuel Goldstein of the 21st century don’t expect any serious effort to find him any time soon. He is far more valuable to the warmongers as still alive. Think how embarrasing it would be if his death was confirmed as having occurred prior to all those fake videos we were solemnly assured by the compliant media was OBLs latest word on any given event.

By: Venise Alstergren

Venise Alstergren — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Afghanistan illuminates to perfection, the history of Australia’s willingness to fight other peoples’ wars. Do I have to spell it out. Boer, WW1, WW11-with an interlude of actually fighting for our own country, even then we had to saturate the populace with the appropriate PR, Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. And President Obama is about to ask us for more troops to be entered into the lists, in-of all places-a country which has proven time and time again as unwinable. Australia will have the proud tradition of joining EnglandX3 and Russia in a futile exercise in public relations. So will America, but has, or should have nothing to do with Oz.
Someone at the top Google Afghanistan and you will see the sorry path to hell by previous would be conquerors.

WTF can justify this sort of systematic lunacy. Unless, of course, this is the Government’s way of training our troops? Move over John Howard you’ve been replaced by Kevin Rudd.