Comments on: How fire refuges became a thing of the past http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/12/how-fire-refuges-became-a-thing-of-the-past/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:29:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: David Lemcke http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/12/how-fire-refuges-became-a-thing-of-the-past/#comment-14098 David Lemcke Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-14098 If you carefully listen to the Garry Hughes audio you will understand that they did almost everything right, sheltered in the house for about 5 minutes and lived. He is an absolutely fantastic journo for communicating his account so well. The details in the story provide a lot of essential info for analysing the situation and showing how the house was in fact a refuge.<br />The house was prepared, hose and pump, buckets etc. Unfortunately the pump was not shielded and burnt as did the plastic hose (left outside) and the wire handles ripped out of the plastic buckets. Details count.<br /><br />They protected the house initially and when the fire hit went inside. The ember attack driven by wind was pushing embers through all the gaps around doors etc (details). When fire entered through the exhaust fan in the laundry (details) and the house started to burn it did not "explode into flames" and they progressively retreated to the other end of the house. By the time they could not stay inside any longer it sounds like the main front had passed and they were able to leave and make it to the car which was parked in a cleared area. This only had to be moved as roof sheets were flying around, they didn't want to drive for fear of crashing in smoke etc.<br /><br />My conclusion is that they protected the house and it protected them during the crucial time even though it burnt down.<br /><br />The reality is it sounds like they were well prepared, resourced and educated about fire and managed not to panic and this would have been incredibly difficult to manage under the reported conditions. Imagine trying to deal with kids or frail aged at the same time.<br /><br />Given conditions were unprecedented it sounds like a standard bunker refuge will be needed at every house as well as getting community and school refuges built. The public liability problem needs to be resolved through legislation, too many things don't get done because of the worry of legal action. My condolences to all those affected. If you carefully listen to the Garry Hughes audio you will understand that they did almost everything right, sheltered in the house for about 5 minutes and lived. He is an absolutely fantastic journo for communicating his account so well. The details in the story provide a lot of essential info for analysing the situation and showing how the house was in fact a refuge.
The house was prepared, hose and pump, buckets etc. Unfortunately the pump was not shielded and burnt as did the plastic hose (left outside) and the wire handles ripped out of the plastic buckets. Details count.

They protected the house initially and when the fire hit went inside. The ember attack driven by wind was pushing embers through all the gaps around doors etc (details). When fire entered through the exhaust fan in the laundry (details) and the house started to burn it did not “explode into flames” and they progressively retreated to the other end of the house. By the time they could not stay inside any longer it sounds like the main front had passed and they were able to leave and make it to the car which was parked in a cleared area. This only had to be moved as roof sheets were flying around, they didn’t want to drive for fear of crashing in smoke etc.

My conclusion is that they protected the house and it protected them during the crucial time even though it burnt down.

The reality is it sounds like they were well prepared, resourced and educated about fire and managed not to panic and this would have been incredibly difficult to manage under the reported conditions. Imagine trying to deal with kids or frail aged at the same time.

Given conditions were unprecedented it sounds like a standard bunker refuge will be needed at every house as well as getting community and school refuges built. The public liability problem needs to be resolved through legislation, too many things don’t get done because of the worry of legal action. My condolences to all those affected.

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/12/how-fire-refuges-became-a-thing-of-the-past/#comment-14099 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-14099 I was imagining how to make a refuge, then I read a real bad story today of a family suffocating during the firestorm. Another story about a survivor under a the floor boards in turn under the stairs as the house collapsed. But I have to say refuges look pretty wise to me. I was imagining how to make a refuge, then I read a real bad story today of a family suffocating during the firestorm. Another story about a survivor under a the floor boards in turn under the stairs as the house collapsed. But I have to say refuges look pretty wise to me.

]]> By: M A Smith http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/12/how-fire-refuges-became-a-thing-of-the-past/#comment-14100 M A Smith Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-14100 Your writer quotes a report that says: ' “...not all people in Victoria are actually following or planning to adhere to the CFA’s recommended household response to bushfires.” People continue to leave too late." ''<br />What I have gathered from reading reports by people who were involved, is that there is no simple solution. Leave and get killed on the road. Stay and die in your house. Leave and escape the inferno, stay and save your house, leave and die and your house survives anyway. And, given the speed of the fires, you have to decide all this in a split second. Plus, the recent reports prove that however 'prepared' you think you are, in the event of a firestorm such as this you just can't win.See what Gary Hughes said: <br />http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25026912-2702,00.html. (He and his family took shelter in their car while their house burned down.) We've also read from accounts by people who obeyed every instruction and still found themselves surrounded by a fire they could neither escape or fight. Your writer quotes a report that says: ’ “…not all people in Victoria are actually following or planning to adhere to the CFA’s recommended household response to bushfires.” People continue to leave too late.” ”
What I have gathered from reading reports by people who were involved, is that there is no simple solution. Leave and get killed on the road. Stay and die in your house. Leave and escape the inferno, stay and save your house, leave and die and your house survives anyway. And, given the speed of the fires, you have to decide all this in a split second. Plus, the recent reports prove that however ‘prepared’ you think you are, in the event of a firestorm such as this you just can’t win.See what Gary Hughes said:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25026912-2702,00.html. (He and his family took shelter in their car while their house burned down.) We’ve also read from accounts by people who obeyed every instruction and still found themselves surrounded by a fire they could neither escape or fight.

]]> By: Helen Sedgman http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/12/how-fire-refuges-became-a-thing-of-the-past/#comment-14101 Helen Sedgman Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-14101 I was interested to read that <br /><br />"the provision of a fire refuge will be based on a decision of the municipal council, who must consult with the community"<br /><br />We live in a bush fire prone area and our refuges were closed down 3 years ago despite the local communities' very strongly expressed preference for refuge areas to be retained.<br /><br />There was no community consultation. The council simply advised their decision to close the refuges. The reasons given implied that the local council was far more concerned with legal liablitiy and insurance than it was concerned for its residents. <br /><br />We are also a major tourist destination - never did work out where the tourists are meant to seek refuge if a fire emergency happens. Perhaps they are meant to knock on a local door and "stay and defend"!<br /><br /><br /> I was interested to read that

“the provision of a fire refuge will be based on a decision of the municipal council, who must consult with the community”

We live in a bush fire prone area and our refuges were closed down 3 years ago despite the local communities’ very strongly expressed preference for refuge areas to be retained.

There was no community consultation. The council simply advised their decision to close the refuges. The reasons given implied that the local council was far more concerned with legal liablitiy and insurance than it was concerned for its residents.

We are also a major tourist destination - never did work out where the tourists are meant to seek refuge if a fire emergency happens. Perhaps they are meant to knock on a local door and “stay and defend”!

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