The Greens oppose the CPRS not because it is too weak, but because it will point Australia in the wrong direction with little prospect of turning it around in the timeframe within which emissions must peak, says Senator Christine Milne.
From peacenik to Israel promoter
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How did an undergraduate peacenik morph into a spokesman for the Israeli army? The Guy Spigelman I remember was a long-haired hippie-type affiliated with the Labor Students Club (controlled by the Socialist Left faction) and was elected to the Macquarie University Students’ Council on a ticket entitled “Students Against Racism”, his number two being a female student of Jordanian background. Though active in the Macquarie Uni branch of the Australasian Union of Jewish Students (AUJS), Spigelman was despised by Jewish members of the Liberal Club who saw him as too wishy-washy and too pro-Arab. Spigelman actively sought dialogue with students of Palestinian background. In 1992, well before the Oslo accords and at a time when Palestinians were still regarded as a nation of terrorists, at a debate organised by AUJS on the topic of whether Israel should withdraw from the West Bank (or as some rightwing AUJS apparatchiks called it, “Judea and Samaria”) and Gaza, Spigelman supported Israeli withdrawal. Admittedly the reasons he used were more to do with Israeli security (he argued that a survey of retired Israeli generals showed most believe that holding onto the territories didn’t palpably increase Israel’s security) than with any right of Palestinians to a homeland. But he did hack into one Jewish student who made some racist remarks suggesting Arabs were inherently irrational and violent. A 2006 post on Spigelman’s Australian Jewish News blog speculates on the factors that might affect support for Israel in Australia:
The other side? Maybe Spigelman wasn’t as inclusive and ecumenical in his thinking as I may have thought. Still, Spigelman does have some good advice on how supporters of Israel can help their cause:
It’s advice ignored by Israel’s own ambassador in The Age today. |
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23 Comments
LittleJimmyCoward: as I’ve said before, every time you offer your delusional Zionist analysis, it shows
the reader’s why they should support HAMAS…keep up the good work…dimwit
Check the Hijab page. I think there has been a misunderstanding.
Hamas won’t let Israel live in peace. We all know that, don’t we? Hamas wants child-martyrs, Hamas wants war, and Hamas wants the Jews of Israel either dead, or “back in Europe”, where they came from.
Difficult to have a “two state solution” with a state you are sworn to annihilate and a state you refuse to recognise her right to exist
But Kevboy “The Loon” Herbert says ” HAMAS has repeatedly said that it will recognise a two state solution provided Israel leaves both Gaza & the West Bank”.
Israel already did and Hamas didn’t
Promise to publish the Israeli Embassy’s response to your latest “diplomatically’ phrased letter Kevboy?
Oh and watch out for those airborne pigs Kevboy…
Kevin Herbert:
One only has to review Hamas’ own words to understand that they are radical islamists, not Palestinian nationalists, and that they are not concerned with reaching a solution to the Israel/Palestine dispute. They are not interested in a two state solution, the only possible means of settling the matter.
To demand of either side what they cannot agree to condemns both peoples to continuing war.
The fact that Hamas was democratically elected is of no interest to me. Many democratically elected governments have done unforgiveable things. Hamas does such things, not only to Israel, but to their own people. They are truly medieval oppressors. Their seizure of power in Gaza was neither democratic nor a product of popular support.
They have, in their own words, carried out continual military attacks on Israel and brought the situation to its current tragic state.
The only solution is two states, Jerusalem as a shared capital. No other possibility exists that can be accepted by both sides. Hamas will never cooperate in bringing this about.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/28/AR2006082801178_pf.html
LittleJimmyCoward: as I said, you’re doing a great job for HAMAS with the bigoted Zionist tosh you’re serving up…keep up the good work
http://www.davidduke.com/general/dr-kevin-macdonald-praises-and-critiques-walt-and-mearsheimers-work_3976.html
if you oppose the mass death of innocent men, women and children you are pro-holocaust, anti-israel and pro-hamas
hard choice imo
I should as a closer to my deaings with the Israeli terrorists in Canberra, include my response to their
errant bullshit:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Your selective use of the facts is not surprising, given the
circumstances in Gaza & Israel generally.
Israel has refused to end its illegal blockade of Gaza which has turned
the strip basically into a concentration camp. Even the Vatican acknowledges
this fact, along with an ever increasing number of Australians.
HAMAS is the democratically elected government of GAZA.
HAMAS has repeatedly said that it will recognise a two state solution provided
Israel leaves both Gaza & the West Bank.
Until Israel leaves both these territories, it is a rogue state conducting
terrorist activities against the Palestinian people.
Israel has CLEARLY LOST the battle for the hearts & minds of people of
conscience globally.
I am organising a boycott of any Israeli manufactured goods imported to Australia
(bar code beginning with 729), and will actively support local opposition to the
Gaza genocide, and to Israel generally.
Your polite response mirrors the polite response to enquiries by the US, issued by
the German NAZIS as they bombed the Jewish ghetto in Warsaw. I propose to reproduce
it on the Crikey website today, as further evidence of the sophistry your bureau is engaging
in presently.
Yours ever so diplomatically,
Kevin C Herbert
Mark Spigelman is obviously a decent guy of liberal left leanings who is also a Zionist. Despite the lunatic meanderings of the socalled Left in this and other western democracies, there is no contradiction.
I agree that it is very important that Zionists engage with those of the Left who are prepared to have an intelligent discussion.
Being an apologist for the medieval oppressors in Hamas who are prepared to use the citizens of Gaza in their delusional islamist campaign (ie it has NOTHING to do with Palestinian nationalism), is something that seems to fit well with some on the Left. I cannot understand how they can bring themselves to do it.
The only solution to the situation is two states, with Jerusalem as the capital of both. It can happen. It will happen. Israel does not have a choice, and neither do the Palestinians.
After this episode, Israelis can be confident that if a new Palestinian state becomes a launching ground for attacks, they can be dealt with. Palestinians can be confident that if they allow a bankrupt leadership to continue attacks after they have a State of their own, then the response will be overwhelming.
This is the basis of a relative peace between Israel and the other Arab states - Egypt Syria and Jordan know if they attack Israel, they will soundly defeated. It is the only basis for relative peace between Israel and a new Palestinian state.
There now exists a way to proceed. Israel should let go of its settlements in the West Bank and the Palestinians have to want a state. Pressure from the new American administration will, I believe, be strong and consistent. Israel will have to make the first moves.
Lets hope the reconstruction of Gaza is carried out by forces other than Hamas and that the population of this area will no longer be hostage to their crazy Islamist scheming.
eric lundberg
Spigelman is just another arse kissing Zionist. As for the Israeli ambasador’s piece in today’s Age, you could as easily replace his accusations about Hamas, with Israel.
But exactly where does this kind of exchange actually arrive…The answer is NOWHERE, which is exactly what the Israelis want..
Their aim is to crush HAMAS & then the remaining Palestinian organisations. with the aim of physically eliminating them from the negotiating table. Once they’ve got rid of HAMAS, they’ll conjure up another conflcit with FATAH or its equivalent, and then aim to crush it.
THIS HAS GONE FOR 41 YEARS, AND THE WORLD HAS STOOD BY & WATCHED.
ISRAEL OUT OF THE WEST BANK & GAZA…NOW
Hmm yes this all justifies the killing of hundreds and women and children.
Does Israeli military aggression and theft of Palestinian land justify the suicide bombing of pizza places and nightclubs in Israel? Of course not. It would be barbaric (and medieval!) to say such a thing. Apparently, however, if it just dandy to say that brutal Hamas tactics justify the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians. We know this is the case because it’s what every blinkered Zionist has been saying since forever. To say that the Palestinians deserve some kind of collective punishment for electing Hamas, which some people have said on this website, is disgusting. Collective punishment is against the law, and is a war crime.
Thanks for the link-dump though JamesK. I’m sure all those unsourced blogs and youtubes prove some kind of point.
“There are criminals and murderers loose in Gaza in the IDF but there are also many beautiful and decent Jewish folks in this world including in the IDF” says Tom McLoughlin.
OK I’ll give you ‘beautiful’…. there are some complete babes in uniform……mmmm phoar! …. but “decent”, “criminals and murders”?
What evidence have you for either, or indeed both, apparently confidently annunciated assertions?
Almost everything from Kevboy aka ‘the Loon’ on this topic smacks of extreme prejudice, bigotry and emotional fanaticism rather than intellect or reason.
Facts and reasoned arguments with evidence (which is usually characteristic of Tom McLoughlin’s comments) needs to be adhered to in order to develop a reasoned approach to this tragic conflict.
Eric Lundberg: you can go on trotting out that Zionist pap about HAMAS for as long as you like:
You can’t change the fact that HAMAS is the democratically elected governmment of Gaza.
It’s legitimacy is beyond question. Your human shields proposition is just another example of Israel the fascist State, trying to win the propoganda upperhand….IT HAS FAILED COMPREHENSIVELY.
Unable to answer an argument Kevboy resorts to his accustomed prejudices and bitter vicious attacks.
Akin to the lowlife thugs he so vehemently promotes.
I conclude that not much can be expected of this loon with a feral attitude.
It was an improbable notion that his two neurones that might band together and cobble any argument to defend his fanatical delusions.
Jeez! Even notorious leftist and Israeli critic Robert Fisk finds people like ‘The Loon’ aka Kevboy who triumphantly make equivalent Israel and the Nazi SS racist:
“Merely to make such a parallel is an act of anti-Semitism”
He writes an op-ed about it in The Independent:
“Robert Fisk’s World: When it comes to Gaza, leave the Second World War out of it
How do Holocaust survivors in Israel feel about being called Nazis?”
Antony Loewenstein, Kevboy’s feed progenitor & batty pervert will be devastated
Check out the pathetic propoganda being issued by the Israeli terrorists in Canberra in response to my withdrawal of my recognition of Israel. Their use of the term ‘cynically’ makes me want to puke:
My below exchange with the Israeli Embassy is a prime exampke of the SELECTIVE USE OF FACTS BY THE ISRAELIS WORLD-WIDE:
Dear Mr Herbert,
Thank you for your interest in, and concern for the present situation in
Israel and Gaza.
The Embassy of Israel in Canberra understands your concern, but Israel
stands by its right to defend its civilian population from terrorist
attack. More than 10,000 rockets have been fired into Israel since 2001,
despite a complete withdrawal from Gaza by Israel in 2005. Now, more
than 800,000 Israelis are within range of Hamas’ terror attacks.
Hamas chose not to extend the state of calm that had existed between
Israel and Hamas since June, and marked its end by stepping up rocket
attacks against Israeli civilians.
It has cynically used the population of Gaza as human shields, just as
it builds its Qassam rockets near schools and hospitals. It bears the
ultimate responsibility for civilian casualties in Gaza.
Even in this difficult situation, Israel is committed to dialogue, and a
two-state solution. Israel will always believe in peace for its region.
For more information and updates, please see the Embassy’s website at
http://canberra.mfa.gov.il.
Regards,
Embassy of Israel
6 Turrana Street
Yarralumla ACT 2600
— — -Original Message — — -
From: Kevin Herbert [mailto:kevinherbert@bigpond.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:51 AM
To: info
Subject: ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST WITHDRAWN
Based on the immoral conduct of the IDF, I hereby join the rapidly growing number of fair minded Australians who have withdrawn their recognition of Israel to exist as a sovereign State.
Murdering innocent civilians including hundreds of children, WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Signed
Kevin Herbert
Kevboy ‘The Loon’ Herbert: It’s spelled p-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a
Now have a bex and good lie down with your “Jewish friends here and overseas ” and your “rapidly growing number of fair minded Australians who have withdrawn their recognition of Israel to exist as a sovereign State”
LittleJimmyCoward:
As usual you’re short on substance, and lack any judgement. whatsoever.
However, it’s of some comfort to know that every time you make one of your asinine comments, you serve the cause of HAMAS and the Palestinians.
You’re cavalier disposition is like that of the Israeli air force cowards who fire rockets into civilian areas , & then go home to dinner with their families…….very similar to the SS guards at Auschwitz.
What a pathetic little fellow you are.
Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields:
1. Speech by Fathi Hamad, member of Hamas Council, Al Aqsa TV, Feb 29, 2008:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs
“For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters againset the Zionist bombing machine, as they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire Life.”
2. Gaza TV calls out to the local civilian population to go and form a human shield around the house of a Hamas terrorist after Israel called him to warn him about an airtstrike.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYtij4Q7sE
3. Video of Hamas terrorists grabbing children and using them as shields while running across the street
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1387468/hamas_terrorist_using_children_as_a_human_shield/
4. Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs report on Hamas exploitation of civilians as human shields: Photographic evidence. Includes other videos and photographic evidence of Hamas sending children to protect rocket launch sites and weapons assembly facilities, firing rockets from densely populated areas, etc.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm?DisplayMode=print
5. News report of Hamas terrorists dressing up as women and using a crowd of women for cover
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,227222,00.html
6. Israeli photographic evidence shows Hamas exploits civilians as human shields
http://frontierindia.net/israeli-photographic-evidence-shows-hamas-exploits-civilians-as-human-shields
7. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=70Oqo_wmuGo
8. http://adeeperlookweblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/hamas-wired-unwra-school-building-for.html
Daniel (presumably surnamed Lewis), what do you have against indigenous Australians?
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/jan/26/00006/
The Embassy’s pathetic use of statistics deleting the crippling blockade over that period - which actually kills people through ill health and services - is noted. In particular the pathetic failure to not the profound 4 month successful truce until it was snuffed out too by Israel’s blockade constructive breach.
…………………
However I counsel get into the Israel is monolithic folks. There are criminals and murderers loose in Gaza in the IDF but there are also many beautiful and decent Jewish folks in this world including in the IDF. Probably a majority once liberated from the hogwash and spin. Naomi Klein, prominent Jewish media practitioner is right to pursue the Boycott Divest Sanction agenda in The Guardian: Which would arguably apply to Westfield Lowy empire methinks:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/10/naomi-klein-boycott-israel
https://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/The-quiet-benefactor-Lowys-dedication-to-Israel-JX438?OpenDocument
I personally I see the cycle of violence as personal grief dormant for decades feeding into ultra Right wing politics in Israel. You can’t see the suffering of another in Palestine when your own loss say in the Holocaust has left you cold as stone, and to face that buried grief is immensely painful - or so I imagine. Old soldiers are routinely grieving at 80. Which is why killing is dumb and wrong at the same time. You make 10 more enemies for life.
Which is what makes Steve Cannane’s ABC RN interview this morning remarkable with the higly astute:
“Uri Avnery, Israeli Journalist and Peace Activist”, only 85 years old now, ex Zionist paramilitary apparently
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2009/2467217.htm
Uri nailed the current Israeli Govt, his own people’s majority support for war as stock standard populism until the body bags roll, Australia the same in Vietnam etc. Wow what a lion.
And 2 questions - any fat people in Gaza? Any skinny people in Southern Israel?