Comments on: Anti-gay bigots on Roxon’s mens’ health taskforce

By: Doug

Doug — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Good post Phil.
The homophiles here are just to blinkered to see their own bigotry.
Their tolerance is virtually non-existant - approve of homosexuality as a healthy normal lifestyle or “you’re a bigot”……charming tolernant viewpoint.
Dont they welcome diversity of analysis in sexual politics or is it “agree with us or we’ll stick a bad label on you !!!”

By: nick

nick — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

whew… i just read the 23 page thing from the document “21 reasons why gender matters”… you’re right in your description of it, bernard- EVIL. reading it made my skin crawl… the garbage it pushes, with 178 references, chosen from some reputable publications (eg Adele Horin in SHM- reference 51) but many from other like-minded sources, all quoted specifically to back the hateful message that anyone other than a man’s man and a feminine, diminutive woman is sick and shouldn’t be allowed near kids.

there are quite a number of references (178 in total), but take for example, reference 124:
Jeffrey Satinover, “The ‘Trojan Couch’: How the Mental Health Associations Misrepresent Science.” NARTH, 2005: < http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf

when you go to that url you find this heading on the webpage:

NARTH- National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality
NARTH upholds the rights of individuals with unwanted homosexual attraction to receive effective psychological care, and the right of professionals to offer that care.

looking through the mission statement for NARTH, and what NARTH will work towards in the future shows this website to be quite homophobic in its intent, yet purporting to be mainstream science in the “work” it undertakes…

reference 117 quotes a summary of research from http://www.peoplecanchange.com. this website is by “Men who have overcome unwanted same sex attractions supporting others who seek similar change.” it is heavily influenced by “religious” principles and “God’s will”.

i really think ms roxon needs to read this pdf and get her staff to research the references used in it to get a clearer understanding of just how vilifying it is, and how it could be used to incite hatred and possibly violence against members in society.

By: arty

arty — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

A clear case of ambassadors cure thy selves.

By: Allan

Allan — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

What do you expect when party hacks end up in leadership positions ….
We asked for it!

By: stevie

stevie — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Wow. At time of writing 38 comments. Fantastic! It’s amazing what a bit of gay gagging can do. Let’s shoot for for 100 comments folks. Here we go. Fags, faggot, poo pushers, pillow biters, poofs sex sickos, homos, bum bangers, shit shooters and oh, did I mention crap chasers. Now for the other side: bible bashers, homophobes, cave men and yellow Wiggle haters smarty pants.

By: Pfhil

Pfhil — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

As usual the jokers enter the arena as the frenzy of hate messages intensifies. What started as a group of rather balanced responses to a clearly wrong decision by the government has turned into this circus, and now we have “Ray” coming in to increase the intensity even further. I suggest that the person behind “Ray’s” posting think about the effect his claims have on male homosexuals who do not have health problems, who do not practice high risk sexual behaviour, and have not had indications from “the majority” that they are abhorred. This kind of skulduggery may have seemed a good idea at the time, “Ray”, but you have sunk to a level where good people are vilified and saddened and hurt. The “I don’t mind gay people, BUT” brigade are at least trying to balance their prejudices; the “Rays” of the world are just plain horrible.

By: steve martin

steve martin — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

” a “preventable and treatable” illness, representative of immaturity, and associated with psychiatric disorders” - Personally it would be the first time that I have heard of someone like Oscar Wilde being called immature.
As far as psychiatric illness being associated with homosexuality this is most probably true, and unsurprising, considering the way many homosexuals are treated.

By: John James

John James — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

With proposition 8 being carried in California, a state that supported Obama for the Presidency by an almost 2 to 1 margin and two other similar propositions, which define marriage as that between a man and a woman also being carried, its great to see that the only confusion on the question of ‘Adam and Eve vs Adam and Steve’ exists in the mind of Bernard and Crikey’s usual suspects.
Homosexuality is a ’ Perversion’, a misuse of a wonderful gift and a sign of moral decay. As the song goes, “when you dont know how to treat a woman, dont know how to be a man, time to admit what you call defeat.”
How’s Woof, Bernard?
Best of luck trying to convince Kevin and Nicola about the normality of homosexuality. I’m not impressed by either, but neither of them is that silly.

By: Mel

Mel — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

That is outrageous. They have no right to push their agendas on everybody else. I am heterosexual, but I whole heartedly believe in and respect rights for people from same sex, as they believe in and respect my rights to be heterosexual. These particular people have done nothing but exploit children's rights, gay rights and mothers rights with their hate speech and propaganda. They gratify perpetrators violence against women and hold no accountability for the consequences of their previous campaigns.

By: John James # 2

John James # 2 — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Marilyn’s comment reminded me of the other sad thing about this debate, which is how the homosexual lobby, with the help of titles like that for this piece in Crikey, conflates criticism of homsexuality with homophobia, by which I mean the idea that if you criticise homosexual practice you must “hate” homosexuals and wish all kinds of evil upon them.
Like Marilyn, I count amongst my work colleagues and friends, homosexuals. Anyone vaguely responsible for the well being and formation of others, and that would involve just about everyone in some capacity ( parents, spouses, siblings, work colleagues ) realises that there are plenty of occasions in life where you mayl tell someone you believe the conduct they are embarking upon is wrong, and you do so, not because you wish them ill, but precisely because you care for them deeply.
For a believer like myself, there is the added imperitive of trying to ascertain Gods will and doing it, for oursake, not His.
As a doctor, I have cared for several patients dying of AIDS. Its too late then! All you can do is help them prepare for death, treat them with alot of affection, and pray! There is often alot of pain in their eyes, and its not of the physical kind.

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Good article. Rest of the stupid media hopping up and down about Tim Mathieson but have missed the real story. Well done Crikey.

By: steve martin 2

steve martin 2 — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Reading these posts I can’t but notice that intolerance is not confined to the gay bashers.

By: KSpadden

KSpadden — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Fathers4families, etc take their political lobbying tactics far right wing Men’s Rights groups in Canada & the U.S. They are rampantly antifeminism and predict the end of the world as we know it if women retain equal rights . Their members frequently stage flooding sessions such repetitively posting misleading interpretations of domestic violence studies on popular news media blogs.

Check this for a recent session for a demonstrating their style and mindset. It is easy to pick.
http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2008/11/where_have_all_the_feminists_g.html?page=fullpage

It is very sad news to hear these people are selected.

By: McPhug

McPhug — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

The real question is - how did this happen? How did two utterly mindless idiot throwback drooling DNA mistakes end up associated with public Mens Heath matters??

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Sorry, “Stevie”, but Bernard is absolutely correct to describe this situation as ‘vile’. Your comment suggests this issue is up to the individual’s assessment of their view of gay relationships, but when it comes to Government programs to encourage men to improve their awareness of health issues then evidence-based methods are clearly best. The ‘Gender Matters’ website is ideologically driven claptrap with chronically selective quotation of data to promote a religious viewpoint. This is not the basis on which health awareness campaigns funded by tax dollars ought to be driven, and I question how such biased individuals can promote health issues in the community when the biases they hold encourage them to have such a skewed view of mens’ sexuality and thus issues affecting health.

By: John James # 6

John James # 6 — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

You’re a thinker, Bob, I can see that! Sign that petition of Mel’s. Then have a drink and a chat with your Christian mates. I dont think the pettion will extend to ending free speech, will it Mel?

By: Kerry

Kerry — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Stevie why dont you just admit you agree with “21 reasons why gender matters”… and forget the clap trap. Not in the closet are you?

By: Ray

Ray — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

It is surprising that Bernard Keane has such a distorted view of men. Marsh and Williams are representative of males who account for over 98% of the male population, whereas homosexuals account for less than 2%. Of these 2%, virtually all acquire their homosexuality by choice in any case. Consequently, there is little if any justification for homosexual representation on Roxon’s mens’ health taskforce.

By: Jared

Jared — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Good strawman, but no one is asking for gays to be represented on the panel, Ray. The topic of discussion is that rabid anti-gay ideologues have been appointed as government ambassadors. Unless there was an asterix on the application form that said, ” *representing all men, except for the poofs” then in most people’s minds there is an untenable conflict of interest here.

Also, your idea that “virtually all acquire their homosexuality by choice in any case” reveals your own ignorance on the issue given there is incontrovertible scientific evidence to the contrary. Australia voted itself out of the 50s at the last election. All this talk of civil rights and equal treatment under the law might be scary and new for you, but it’s time to move on mate.

By: bernardk

bernardk — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

thanks for bringing this to our attention.

By: Cathy

Cathy — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

After the ABC’s focus on Julia G’s ‘man of few words’ Tim Mathieson you can only assume he’s a good listener. The purpose of Roxon’s ambassadors for mens health is for these guys to get out and about and communicate well, ask questions and listen and naturally report the findings accurately. If Tim is short on intelligent communication as he appears he’d do less damage to this campaign by staying in the hair salon and letting someone more expert take up the challenge. As for Marsh and Williams the young turks of the Rudd regime simply didn’t do their homework. Egg on the face and nothing on the plate. Same old outcome when you turn the public service into a movement for party servants.

By: Justin

Justin — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Well done Crikey!... one down, one to go

Warwick Marsh is gone

By: Chris Johnson

Chris Johnson — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Roxon’s ambassadors for mens health foray has turned into the usual political fiasco. Its a repeat of the silencing dissent strategy where politicized, incompetent advisors grab any old ‘see it our way’ player to make agenda-driven policy. Just as Brendan Emo Nelson fiddled and fouled the Australian Research Council by appointing a ‘review council’ comprising Quadrant editor Paddy McGuinness, former newsreader Ross Symonds and former High Court judge Daryl Dawson. Tortuous and futile months later the dynamics of the trio and the purpose of their appointment became so unworkable the ARC folded. If Rudd wants to turn the page on the Howard years he should nip Roxon’s go-nowhere notions in the bud. Unless of course that’s exactly where he wants them to head.

By: Bob

Bob — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Agreed Justin, looks like these guys tick may well tick the homophobic, antisemitic, racist, woman hating boxes. Well done Nicola. Talk about social inclusion.

By: shelley

shelley — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

it’s interesting how male health is defined and practiced, isn’t it? It actually includes being closed (read ‘tough’) . Being anti-gay does not indicate a strong sense of self/ self-esteem or healthy masculinity ; it’s probably a defensive, stress-inducing uptightness/hatefulness that can only lead to bad health, both for the perpetuators of the sentiment ,and the object of it. How these groups define women and sustain violence in acts and words against them is another matter, but again not at all healthy. Thanks for pointing this out