Australia’s refugee problem has attracted global attention. This from the New York Times.
Anti-gay bigots on Roxon’s mens’ health taskforce
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Nicola Roxon has appointed a number of men’s health ambassadors to encourage men to speak about their health. Among them is the Governor of Victoria, Professor David de Kretser AO, Governor of Victoria and founder and patron of Andrology Australia, Tim Mathieson, “businessman and men’s health advocate” but actually Julia Gillard’s personal hairstylist, Bill Noonan of the TWU, and Professor John Macdonald of the University of Western Sydney. Fine gentleman all, although quite what Tim Mathieson has done to warrant the honour is a good question. That may be asked of Roxon this afternoon. But a Crikey reader has pointed out, there are a couple of other more interesting ambassadors. Warwick Marsh, President of the Fatherhood Foundation, and Barry Williams, President of the Lone Fathers Association. Marsh and Williams seem to have rather peculiar views on some male health issues. Worse than peculiar, actually. Downright evil is a term that springs to mind. Because they appear to have a problem with gay men. Marsh’s group has a website where it has brought together people “who believe in the natural biological family. The best way to protect children is for children to be brought up by a loving mother and father who are married.” On the site, you’ll find a quite loathsome document called “21 Reasons Why Gender Matters”. This 23-page screed is mostly notable merely for promulgating tediously stereotypical views of people and their relationships. For example, did you know that about male and female complementarity that “in the marital embrace, it is experienced in the way that the men, being physically oriented to giving himself, at the same time receives the woman, while the woman, being physically oriented to receiving the man, at the same time gives herself to him.” I never heard it called that before. But the document also contains a long list of disgusting statements about homos-xuality, suggesting it is unnatural, a “preventable and treatable” illness, representative of immaturity, and associated with psychiatric disorders and drug addiction. “Gender disorientation pathology”, as the document calls homos-xuality, “will lead to increased levels of drug abuse and partner violence.” In particular, the document strongly associates homos-xuality with sexual abuse. “Gender disorientation pathology encourages the s-xual and psychological exploitation of children,” it says. On and on it goes, page after page, “supported” by nonsensical and misinterpreted studies, ranting against gays and lesbians. Warwick Marsh and Barry Williams are listed as “authors and contributors” to this vile, bigoted garbage. These men should have nothing to do with any cause associated with men’s health, when they’re linked to a document that promotes the view that gay men are predisposed toward pa-dophilia, violence, drug use and psychological illness. The sort of view that encourages violence toward gays and lesbians. Nicola Roxon should immediately demand Marsh and Williams dissociate themselves in every way from this stuff, or find some new ambassadors. |
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63 Comments
Good post Phil.
The homophiles here are just to blinkered to see their own bigotry.
Their tolerance is virtually non-existant - approve of homosexuality as a healthy normal lifestyle or “you’re a bigot”……charming tolernant viewpoint.
Dont they welcome diversity of analysis in sexual politics or is it “agree with us or we’ll stick a bad label on you !!!”
whew… i just read the 23 page thing from the document “21 reasons why gender matters”… you’re right in your description of it, bernard- EVIL. reading it made my skin crawl… the garbage it pushes, with 178 references, chosen from some reputable publications (eg Adele Horin in SHM- reference 51) but many from other like-minded sources, all quoted specifically to back the hateful message that anyone other than a man’s man and a feminine, diminutive woman is sick and shouldn’t be allowed near kids.
there are quite a number of references (178 in total), but take for example, reference 124:
Jeffrey Satinover, “The ‘Trojan Couch’: How the Mental Health Associations Misrepresent Science.” NARTH, 2005: < http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf
when you go to that url you find this heading on the webpage:
NARTH- National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality
NARTH upholds the rights of individuals with unwanted homosexual attraction to receive effective psychological care, and the right of professionals to offer that care.
looking through the mission statement for NARTH, and what NARTH will work towards in the future shows this website to be quite homophobic in its intent, yet purporting to be mainstream science in the “work” it undertakes…
reference 117 quotes a summary of research from http://www.peoplecanchange.com. this website is by “Men who have overcome unwanted same sex attractions supporting others who seek similar change.” it is heavily influenced by “religious” principles and “God’s will”.
i really think ms roxon needs to read this pdf and get her staff to research the references used in it to get a clearer understanding of just how vilifying it is, and how it could be used to incite hatred and possibly violence against members in society.
A clear case of ambassadors cure thy selves.
What do you expect when party hacks end up in leadership positions ….
We asked for it!
Wow. At time of writing 38 comments. Fantastic! It’s amazing what a bit of gay gagging can do. Let’s shoot for for 100 comments folks. Here we go. Fags, faggot, poo pushers, pillow biters, poofs sex sickos, homos, bum bangers, shit shooters and oh, did I mention crap chasers. Now for the other side: bible bashers, homophobes, cave men and yellow Wiggle haters smarty pants.
As usual the jokers enter the arena as the frenzy of hate messages intensifies. What started as a group of rather balanced responses to a clearly wrong decision by the government has turned into this circus, and now we have “Ray” coming in to increase the intensity even further. I suggest that the person behind “Ray’s” posting think about the effect his claims have on male homosexuals who do not have health problems, who do not practice high risk sexual behaviour, and have not had indications from “the majority” that they are abhorred. This kind of skulduggery may have seemed a good idea at the time, “Ray”, but you have sunk to a level where good people are vilified and saddened and hurt. The “I don’t mind gay people, BUT” brigade are at least trying to balance their prejudices; the “Rays” of the world are just plain horrible.
” a “preventable and treatable” illness, representative of immaturity, and associated with psychiatric disorders” - Personally it would be the first time that I have heard of someone like Oscar Wilde being called immature.
As far as psychiatric illness being associated with homosexuality this is most probably true, and unsurprising, considering the way many homosexuals are treated.
With proposition 8 being carried in California, a state that supported Obama for the Presidency by an almost 2 to 1 margin and two other similar propositions, which define marriage as that between a man and a woman also being carried, its great to see that the only confusion on the question of ‘Adam and Eve vs Adam and Steve’ exists in the mind of Bernard and Crikey’s usual suspects.
Homosexuality is a ’ Perversion’, a misuse of a wonderful gift and a sign of moral decay. As the song goes, “when you dont know how to treat a woman, dont know how to be a man, time to admit what you call defeat.”
How’s Woof, Bernard?
Best of luck trying to convince Kevin and Nicola about the normality of homosexuality. I’m not impressed by either, but neither of them is that silly.
That is outrageous. They have no right to push their agendas on everybody else. I am heterosexual, but I whole heartedly believe in and respect rights for people from same sex, as they believe in and respect my rights to be heterosexual. These particular people have done nothing but exploit children’s rights, gay rights and mothers rights with their hate speech and propaganda. They gratify perpetrators violence against women and hold no accountability for the consequences of their previous campaigns.
Marilyn’s comment reminded me of the other sad thing about this debate, which is how the homosexual lobby, with the help of titles like that for this piece in Crikey, conflates criticism of homsexuality with homophobia, by which I mean the idea that if you criticise homosexual practice you must “hate” homosexuals and wish all kinds of evil upon them.
Like Marilyn, I count amongst my work colleagues and friends, homosexuals. Anyone vaguely responsible for the well being and formation of others, and that would involve just about everyone in some capacity ( parents, spouses, siblings, work colleagues ) realises that there are plenty of occasions in life where you mayl tell someone you believe the conduct they are embarking upon is wrong, and you do so, not because you wish them ill, but precisely because you care for them deeply.
For a believer like myself, there is the added imperitive of trying to ascertain Gods will and doing it, for oursake, not His.
As a doctor, I have cared for several patients dying of AIDS. Its too late then! All you can do is help them prepare for death, treat them with alot of affection, and pray! There is often alot of pain in their eyes, and its not of the physical kind.
Good article. Rest of the stupid media hopping up and down about Tim Mathieson but have missed the real story. Well done Crikey.
Reading these posts I can’t but notice that intolerance is not confined to the gay bashers.
Fathers4families, etc take their political lobbying tactics far right wing Men’s Rights groups in Canada & the U.S. They are rampantly antifeminism and predict the end of the world as we know it if women retain equal rights . Their members frequently stage flooding sessions such repetitively posting misleading interpretations of domestic violence studies on popular news media blogs.
Check this for a recent session for a demonstrating their style and mindset. It is easy to pick.
http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2008/11/where_have_all_the_feminists_g.html?page=fullpage
It is very sad news to hear these people are selected.
The real question is - how did this happen? How did two utterly mindless idiot throwback drooling DNA mistakes end up associated with public Mens Heath matters??
Sorry, “Stevie”, but Bernard is absolutely correct to describe this situation as ‘vile’. Your comment suggests this issue is up to the individual’s assessment of their view of gay relationships, but when it comes to Government programs to encourage men to improve their awareness of health issues then evidence-based methods are clearly best. The ‘Gender Matters’ website is ideologically driven claptrap with chronically selective quotation of data to promote a religious viewpoint. This is not the basis on which health awareness campaigns funded by tax dollars ought to be driven, and I question how such biased individuals can promote health issues in the community when the biases they hold encourage them to have such a skewed view of mens’ sexuality and thus issues affecting health.
You’re a thinker, Bob, I can see that! Sign that petition of Mel’s. Then have a drink and a chat with your Christian mates. I dont think the pettion will extend to ending free speech, will it Mel?
Stevie why dont you just admit you agree with “21 reasons why gender matters”… and forget the clap trap. Not in the closet are you?
It is surprising that Bernard Keane has such a distorted view of men. Marsh and Williams are representative of males who account for over 98% of the male population, whereas homosexuals account for less than 2%. Of these 2%, virtually all acquire their homosexuality by choice in any case. Consequently, there is little if any justification for homosexual representation on Roxon’s mens’ health taskforce.
Good strawman, but no one is asking for gays to be represented on the panel, Ray. The topic of discussion is that rabid anti-gay ideologues have been appointed as government ambassadors. Unless there was an asterix on the application form that said, ” *representing all men, except for the poofs” then in most people’s minds there is an untenable conflict of interest here.
Also, your idea that “virtually all acquire their homosexuality by choice in any case” reveals your own ignorance on the issue given there is incontrovertible scientific evidence to the contrary. Australia voted itself out of the 50s at the last election. All this talk of civil rights and equal treatment under the law might be scary and new for you, but it’s time to move on mate.
thanks for bringing this to our attention.
After the ABC’s focus on Julia G’s ‘man of few words’ Tim Mathieson you can only assume he’s a good listener. The purpose of Roxon’s ambassadors for mens health is for these guys to get out and about and communicate well, ask questions and listen and naturally report the findings accurately. If Tim is short on intelligent communication as he appears he’d do less damage to this campaign by staying in the hair salon and letting someone more expert take up the challenge. As for Marsh and Williams the young turks of the Rudd regime simply didn’t do their homework. Egg on the face and nothing on the plate. Same old outcome when you turn the public service into a movement for party servants.
Well done Crikey!… one down, one to go
Warwick Marsh is gone
Roxon’s ambassadors for mens health foray has turned into the usual political fiasco. Its a repeat of the silencing dissent strategy where politicized, incompetent advisors grab any old ‘see it our way’ player to make agenda-driven policy. Just as Brendan Emo Nelson fiddled and fouled the Australian Research Council by appointing a ‘review council’ comprising Quadrant editor Paddy McGuinness, former newsreader Ross Symonds and former High Court judge Daryl Dawson. Tortuous and futile months later the dynamics of the trio and the purpose of their appointment became so unworkable the ARC folded. If Rudd wants to turn the page on the Howard years he should nip Roxon’s go-nowhere notions in the bud. Unless of course that’s exactly where he wants them to head.
Agreed Justin, looks like these guys tick may well tick the homophobic, antisemitic, racist, woman hating boxes. Well done Nicola. Talk about social inclusion.
it’s interesting how male health is defined and practiced, isn’t it? It actually includes being closed (read ‘tough’) . Being anti-gay does not indicate a strong sense of self/ self-esteem or healthy masculinity ; it’s probably a defensive, stress-inducing uptightness/hatefulness that can only lead to bad health, both for the perpetuators of the sentiment ,and the object of it. How these groups define women and sustain violence in acts and words against them is another matter, but again not at all healthy. Thanks for pointing this out
“you mayl tell someone you believe the conduct they are embarking upon is wrong, and you do so, not because you wish them ill, but precisely because you care for them deeply.
For a believer like myself, there is the added imperitive of trying to ascertain Gods will and doing it, for oursake, not His”
What a load of sanctimonious bollocks you do go on with.
So now you incessant offensive remarks, lies, insults, vilification and shrill cries for the winding back of my human rights are not made because you are an obnoxious piece of sh*t but because you “care for me deeply”, hmm? What a filthy horrible perverted view of “caring” you religious people have .. not surprising really, given the sadistic pyschopath you worship.
And of course I’m forgetting, you’re not really responsible for any of your vile utterings - it’s god’s will, after all! Hang on, that sounds vaguely familiar …. Oh yes: John James: you’re the captain of your ship. None of this ‘I’m not responsible’ stuff”
“Jared, that “I can’t help it ’ line! Please, mate, you’re the captain of your ship. None of this ‘I’m not responsible’ stuff”
Seriously John James, you cannot possibly be as stupid as you make out. I don’t like grapefruit, so I don’t eat grapefruit. Are you seriously suggesting that Gay men (and Women for that matter) should what? Lay back and take it for the team???
“…realises that there are plenty of occasions in life where you mayl tell someone you believe the conduct they are embarking upon is wrong, and you do so, not because you wish them ill, but precisely because you care for them deeply.
For a believer like myself, there is the added imperitive of trying to ascertain Gods will and doing it, for oursake, not His.”
John James, you do realise that this religion you follow is a hodge podge of myths collected around 1600 years ago, has no specific basis in any historical evidence and absconded with european pagan holidays (why is the anniversary of Christ’s death linked to the lunar calender…(oh can you spell P.A.G.A.N?). I am just telling you this for your own good, I understand that is what you have built your life around but, well no, you are wrong, I still like you though wanna go to the pub for a beer (is that sort of how the conversation goes??)
Thanks, Crikey. This is the story that everyone else should have run, not some vapid trumped-up nepotism charge.
JJ didn’t say medical practitioner, he said doctor. I have my money on him being a Doctor of Theology, obtained over the Internet from some “University” in one of the Good Old Boy states of the USA - he certainly comes across that way.
JJ - I have news for you. Dressing up hatred and intolerance as a religious belief system doesn’t change the fact that it’s still hatred and intolerance, and I don’t believe it has any place in a civilised society.
Yes, you have a right to express an opinion, like anyone else on either side of any argument, just don’t be surprised when those hateful and intolerant opinions get a heated response from the more civilised amongst us.
Oh, and don’t bother to threaten me with going to Hell. I don’t believe in any of it and even if I did, I reckon I’d be in very good company!
Three shot-gun replies from generic names that all write using a similar intonation (” ….”).
Tweedledum, Tweedledee, and Tweedle-MPD?
i was actuallwy named gary ( gay ) johnson it my middle name, same as marVin gay the swinger. so strickilly speaking i am gay. so i just wanna say dat i have lotsa friends who are straight….not dat dere is anything wong with it
Hooray for John James!
Thank you so much for finally writing in today, John.
For a while there I thought Crikey’s favourite fundamentalist might not actually respond to this article and defend the indefensible. But you did, although strangely you didn’t somehow bring abortion into it. Must try harder.
By the way, love your biblical pseudonym. Don’t suppose you’ll ever sign your real name to one of your sermons?
Well done Bernard Keane and Crikey for bringing this to public attention, with a fast reaction from the Minister.
Interesting however that the federal Health Minister’s office seems to have been unable to perform a basic Google search for each appointee! Surely in this day and age it is a simple, low-cost and highly effective method of getting to know the people the government chooses to work with? If only to prepare some questions to ask them!
I just read through 21 reasons why gender matters and was convinced by it. Bring back Warwick Marsh.
I looked at the list of Authors in that ‘why gender matters’ document. One Richard Egan-stone batsh!t crazy.
Hey, dont forget that you need to be a good ‘hater’ to succeed in the ALP ….
Nice Work!
Bernard be interesting if Penny Wong received a copy of your article and get her comments.
What road is that I can hear you ask, Mike? There’s a great film you ought to see, Mike, which I think was the last film in which the late Paul Newman appeared, called ’ The Road to Perdition’.
About a father trying desperately to stay alive and stop his son growing up to be like him. Very beautiful and moving. A man who knew the differnce between good and evil and wanted to get off the road he was on. But sh*t, Mike, when you dont even know which road you’re on, time to ask for some directions and quickly. As the scriptures state, “you know neither the time nor the hour..so stay awake”
Notice how all the photos in ‘21 Reasons Why Gender Matters’ are of good looking white people? All a bit chilling really. Kevin Donnelly is one of the contributors to this document - a former Howard adviser on education and right wing Australian newspaper op-ed raver.
I received this in my email yesterday from a Federal Senatator I happen to know whom I copied into my angry email to Nicola Roxon.
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Press Release
Men’s Health Ambassadors
I have recently become aware of comments in a document purportedly authored by two of the Government’s recently appointed Men’s Health Ambassadors, Warwick Marsh and Barry Williams.
These comments, relating in the main to homosexuality, are unacceptable and repugnant. I firmly disagree with the views expressed.
The document in question carries the names of 34 “authors”. My office is currently in discussions with both men to determine what role they played, and whether the views expressed are their own.
I regard this as a serious matter and will consider closely the responses I receive.
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Maybe someone is actually listening in Nicola’s office.
Jared, that “I can’t help it ’ line! Please, mate, you’re the captain of your ship. None of this ‘I’m not responsible’ stuff.
Thank you Crikey. What garbage these people are. I know it sounds extremely trite but some of my best friends truly are gay, in fact I couldn’t understand my computer or keep it running without them.
Speaking of clap trap thanks for that John. Us versus them in your first post. Reformed as a good Dr doing gods good work in your second. Of course! As a good man you distinguish homosexuality from homosexual conduct (that old chestnut). It just so happens that you feel the choice to behave in such a way leads to AIDS and a lot of pain in their eyes. You know some of my friends are christian fundamentalists… Their lobby scares me but its ok cause I dont think Nicola and Kevin will buy it. I’m not anti fundamentalist. Its their conduct I cant stomach. The poor bastards.
surprise through to outrage at tim Mathieson’s appointment has nothing to do with homophobia or anything else and everytthing to do with nepotism. Its not even nepotism, really, given that its something of a no-win and certainly no profit gig, but it does display the government’s tin ear when it comes to little decisions. sure get a hairdresser to spruik on public health, but make sure the hairdresser has no ties to any Federal MP and certainly not to the deputy PM. Its such a bad decision that Barnaby Joyce sounds logical in his criticisms, and that’s saying something. Sadly, it leaves you worrying that if this is how they approach the little things, then maybe we should not have confidence in their ability to handle the big issues. In a week when British comedians had absolutely justifiable fun at Joel Fitz’s idiotic announcement of the navy working from home - sailors with popguns in the bathtub - this is another bad misfire.
Perhaps it’s an attempt to reach all groups of men, even the fucked-in-the-head ones
Mike, defending the killing of the unborn and sodomy! Mate, you’re well down the road! But pseudonym? Give me a break.
Please sign the new petition to get these anti gay people off the committee:
http://www.gopetition.com.au/online/23630.html
To those who are putting up anti gay posts, if you were a heterosexual minority and some homosexual people decided that heterosexuals are evil, how would you feel?
Great news. Men’s Health is too important to be hijacked by these hate groups.
Bernard, the word vile is not strong enough to describe the trash…….sociopathic latent homsexual raving is more like it.
One wonders where Nicola managed to find such a sick group, did she advertise for homophobic, right wing lunatic, born again fundamentalist hypocrits………..
As for marriage being for a life-time between one man and one woman, where have they been, 3 out five marriages fail and breed feral children, 2 of that 3 end divorce.
Bernard, i can see it. Johnny brings home his school buddy Stevie to sleep overnight. He says to his buddy, “Stevie meet my dad……and my mum….who used to be my dad?” Huh? Seems like Bernard its you who is confused by the word vile. Do comment, but spare us the emotive biases.
>>…although strangely you didn’t somehow bring abortion into it. Must try harder.
>…defending the killing of the unborn and sodomy! Mate, you’re well down the road!
Bingo!
I find homosexuality repulsive but I don’t wish to treat homosexuals as from another planet. Most are utterly charming and amusing.
I hope the mainstream media picks this up. These men are vile.
I also can’t understand the fuss re Tim Mathieson. No one would make a fuss if the situation were reversed and Jeanette Howard or Therese Rein were sitting on a similar committee. There’s always been a perception that if you elect a man, you’ll get a woman thrown in for free to help him do the job - which is why Blanche D’Alpuget is now reaping the rewards of Hazel Hawke’s years of hard slog, by way of an official allowance for the prime ministerial missus emeritas - if Mr Mathieson is providing similar support to Ms Gillard, why should that not be recognised as well?
John James you know jack shit. I feel sorry for any gay man that goes to you for advice. Out comes the bible, you have a choice, you were not made this way…you know nothing you idiot. What right do you have to presume you as a hetrosexual know what goes on inside a gays head. What do you know about the struggle of a 12 yr old trying to come to terms with his sexuality. You say you are doctor, I dont think so. No doctor I know has your uneducated insight into the personality and reasons for being gay. Your attitude smells of the religious right, on the surface all love and care, inside a deep hatred. You know nothing about the reasons for being gay, I can assure you it is not by choice.
thanks, interesting view, when i read it last night, i thought, oh yeah, same old same old. I would hope that Nicola08 would want to have a men’s health ambassador who is gay, and who might, shock horror, actually talk about more than just HIV as gay men’s health issues.
This justed posted on abc.net:
Roxon sacks health ambassador over gay slur
Health Minister Nicola Roxon has dumped one of the Federal Government’s newly-appointed men’s health ambassadors for his views on homosexuality.
Two of the ambassadors, Barry Williams and Warwick Marsh, are listed as authors of a publication which says homosexuality is a mental disorder.
Mr Williams, from the group Lone Fathers, has distanced himself from the comments.
But Ms Roxon says Mr Marsh, from the Fatherhood Foundation, still stands by them, and his position has therefore become untenable.
“I think these comments particularly about homosexuality are quite abhorrent,” she said.
“I don’t share those views, but it is very clear that he has not repudiated these comments, they are very offensive and it’s not appropriate for him to continue in this role.”
Representation is a good thing. I don’t think that these types of committees need to be composed entirely of fully reconstructed males/females.
The Men’s Fraternity/homophobic types need to be included in some way. I agree they are a little misguided - many of them have (chosen to be) been hurt by the system and their own attitude.
I think they or their voice needs to be represented and understood. Something thoughtful needs to be done to deal with their concerns including education & attitudinal change - not just the usual shock horror from the pro femo-nazi/reconstructed male/andrologous crowds. I thought we were past all that.
I can’t help but feel that appeasement re Senator Fielding had something to do with these nominations….and I don’t generally get into conspiracies…this together with the communications minister giving creed to censoring the net…oh dear….
Vote Waldo!!!
Bigotry is characteristic of the spokesmen for homosexuals. They have no hesitation in ridiculing others. Yet they squeal like stuck pigs when they are on the receiving end. They go out of their way to protest that they are being discriminated against, yet use all their influence to discriminate against non-gays. Their incidence of ill health is higher than that of non-homosexuals in their age groups, thanks to their high-risk sexual behaviour. Again, they expect the rest of the community to go out of their way to subsidise their intensive health care. Therefore, it is little wonder that homosexuals are abhorred by the majority. They have themselves to blame.
I think you’ve missed the point. The whole men’s health thing, in the form of the official info paper released by Roxon and on the DoHA website, is a sadly pedestrian effort (I’ve seen a public health paper by a bunch of 4th yr med students that contained a better discussion of the issues). Apparently the writing of the material was outsourced to a couple of men, active in ‘men’s health’, who have made a career out of pretending that notions of ‘masculinity’ are not significant factors in explaining men’s health-related knowledge, attitude and behaviour, because doing so would imply that men are somehow to ‘blame’ for their overall inferior health status. Trying to estabish a national men’s health policy without being honest about the role of ‘masculinity’, however, is going to be a waste of everyone’s time. Roxon would have done better by simply using the Irish men’s health material (Richardson, ‘Getting inside men’s health’) as a starting point and going from there, and then studying successful marketing, a la Gillette and L’Oreal, to get the message across.
This might not be a really big issue, but it shows that Big Kev just might have loosened the reins too much. And affirms that Ms Gillard can hardly be taken seriously & Ms Roxon is as sensitive as a donut ….
What talent we are blessed with!
John James, perhaps you would feel more at home in Iran or Saudi, where the women are stripped of choices and the gays… well, according to Ahmadinejad they don’t have any!
But oh that’s right, they believe in a different coloured tooth fairy than you do.