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	<title>Comments on: Taxpayers foot the bill for neglected historic houses</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/</link>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18350</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18350</guid>
		<description>Call me stupid but $25M sounds pretty cheap for all that heritage. You can walk down any busy street in Sydney and see a few $million in cars parked, and what a waste of money that is. The grounds are not just useless garden. They provide open space which helps preserve some sanity in a metropolis. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problem you are describing seems to be public engagement with the assets. One school group would double or treble the weekly numbers. It&#039;s not rocket science. So the problem may well be the human resouces in the HHT rather than the assets. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Indeed it may be that it&#039;s just another sheltered workshop for Party mates, marking time, not committed to their vocation, if it&#039;s the same as every other area of the public sector in the NSW: Based on networks and power grip over merit. shunning competitive open job selection or fearless transparency, equal opportunity as lipservice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The cycle turning might just refer to the next election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call me stupid but $25M sounds pretty cheap for all that heritage. You can walk down any busy street in Sydney and see a few $million in cars parked, and what a waste of money that is. The grounds are not just useless garden. They provide open space which helps preserve some sanity in a metropolis. </p>
<p>The problem you are describing seems to be public engagement with the assets. One school group would double or treble the weekly numbers. It&#8217;s not rocket science. So the problem may well be the human resouces in the HHT rather than the assets. </p>
<p>Indeed it may be that it&#8217;s just another sheltered workshop for Party mates, marking time, not committed to their vocation, if it&#8217;s the same as every other area of the public sector in the NSW: Based on networks and power grip over merit. shunning competitive open job selection or fearless transparency, equal opportunity as lipservice.</p>
<p>The cycle turning might just refer to the next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Felicity Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18351</link>
		<dc:creator>Felicity Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18351</guid>
		<description>In my view, the Historic Houses Trust is arguably the most dynamic of Australian heritage agencies and is successfully engaging with new audiences in innovative ways. A glance at their latest calendar proves the point, with high tea and dinner at Vaucluse House, carols at Elizabeth Bay House, and children&#039;s programs at Rouse Hill House.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Furthermore, observing the audience at the recent Garden Music concert at Government House, the &#039;Now Generation&#039; indeed engaged with the house, with performances and soundscapes inside interpreting the place in an exciting way. As a member of said &#039;Now Generation&#039;, my personal experience is that many of my peers are time and again drawn to events such as the 50s Fair at Rose Seidler House (which draws larger audiences each year), Garden Music, the Becks Festival Bar at Hyde Park Barracks and festivals held at The Rocks. I would be interested to know on what evidence you base your assumption that young people do not engage with these properties.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The trust continues to be at the forefront of collections management and curation in this country, and deserves to be supported. Take the Houses away from the Trust and Sydney, and Australia, would suffer a great loss. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my view, the Historic Houses Trust is arguably the most dynamic of Australian heritage agencies and is successfully engaging with new audiences in innovative ways. A glance at their latest calendar proves the point, with high tea and dinner at Vaucluse House, carols at Elizabeth Bay House, and children&#8217;s programs at Rouse Hill House.</p>
<p>Furthermore, observing the audience at the recent Garden Music concert at Government House, the &#8216;Now Generation&#8217; indeed engaged with the house, with performances and soundscapes inside interpreting the place in an exciting way. As a member of said &#8216;Now Generation&#8217;, my personal experience is that many of my peers are time and again drawn to events such as the 50s Fair at Rose Seidler House (which draws larger audiences each year), Garden Music, the Becks Festival Bar at Hyde Park Barracks and festivals held at The Rocks. I would be interested to know on what evidence you base your assumption that young people do not engage with these properties.</p>
<p>The trust continues to be at the forefront of collections management and curation in this country, and deserves to be supported. Take the Houses away from the Trust and Sydney, and Australia, would suffer a great loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18352</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18352</guid>
		<description>Ian Evans obviously has a major gripe with the Historic Houses Trust but camouflages it by his concern for the State Government&#039;s budgetary position. Evans tried the same tack in the SMH about a month ago. He roundly criticises the Trust but, as a former Trustee, fails to come up with ideas to improve patronage, apart from selling them or granting long leases - a wonderfully visionary way of preserving our history. School groups regularly visit some of the houses, particularly Vaucluse House, to get an excellent first hand experience of the lives of our pioneers. Our history demands to be preserved and if there is a cost associated with that, it is a worthwhile cost to bear. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian Evans obviously has a major gripe with the Historic Houses Trust but camouflages it by his concern for the State Government&#8217;s budgetary position. Evans tried the same tack in the SMH about a month ago. He roundly criticises the Trust but, as a former Trustee, fails to come up with ideas to improve patronage, apart from selling them or granting long leases - a wonderfully visionary way of preserving our history. School groups regularly visit some of the houses, particularly Vaucluse House, to get an excellent first hand experience of the lives of our pioneers. Our history demands to be preserved and if there is a cost associated with that, it is a worthwhile cost to bear.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Trudeau</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18353</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Trudeau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18353</guid>
		<description>Bearing in mind Ian&#039;s comment that &quot;it always helps to know where people are coming from&quot;, I also work in heritage.  That said, I hope I still have the right to reply to Ian&#039;s diatribe against the HHT and the National Trust.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(And while we&#039;re on the topic, I find it no small irony to note Ian&#039;s own self-descriptor as a &quot;heritage conservationist&quot;.  Surely constructive criticism of the state&#039;s two largest non-statutory heritage bodies is more helpful than an ill-advised article promoting the sale and development of some of the State&#039;s best heritage sites?).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ian&#039;s article is so full of invective and superficial reasoning that it is hard to know where to begin in response.  Above all, however, I would emphasise the difficulty in measuring &#039;value&#039; in the conservation of heritage items.  It is simply specious, simplistic and damaging to reduce the landmarks of cultural development to mere dollar values; and it is precisely the prevalence of this attitude in the shaping of state policy that has led to the loss of countless sites, aspects and features of our built environment.  Don&#039;t mistake me - development must occur and it is one of the primary drivers of a healthy economy.  But the economy - and economics - is far from the only perspective by which to see, and measure, the value of things.  Intelligent debate on this matter is vital - not reductivist quoting of entry figures as justification for the sale of properties conserved over decades.  If anything, this value is reflected in their dollar value, not contradicted by it.&lt;br /&gt;These sites are integral to a healthy environment, and also to future economic growth - judicious conservation is the keystone to successful development.  Here in Australia, our failing is that we don’t give our heritage much time to grow old.  Go to the UK, Mr Evans, and see what strengths and gifts a healthy National Trust can give to its nation – not a trust that is emasculated before its time.  Shame on you.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bearing in mind Ian&#8217;s comment that &#8220;it always helps to know where people are coming from&#8221;, I also work in heritage.  That said, I hope I still have the right to reply to Ian&#8217;s diatribe against the HHT and the National Trust.</p>
<p>(And while we&#8217;re on the topic, I find it no small irony to note Ian&#8217;s own self-descriptor as a &#8220;heritage conservationist&#8221;.  Surely constructive criticism of the state&#8217;s two largest non-statutory heritage bodies is more helpful than an ill-advised article promoting the sale and development of some of the State&#8217;s best heritage sites?).</p>
<p>Ian&#8217;s article is so full of invective and superficial reasoning that it is hard to know where to begin in response.  Above all, however, I would emphasise the difficulty in measuring &#8216;value&#8217; in the conservation of heritage items.  It is simply specious, simplistic and damaging to reduce the landmarks of cultural development to mere dollar values; and it is precisely the prevalence of this attitude in the shaping of state policy that has led to the loss of countless sites, aspects and features of our built environment.  Don&#8217;t mistake me - development must occur and it is one of the primary drivers of a healthy economy.  But the economy - and economics - is far from the only perspective by which to see, and measure, the value of things.  Intelligent debate on this matter is vital - not reductivist quoting of entry figures as justification for the sale of properties conserved over decades.  If anything, this value is reflected in their dollar value, not contradicted by it.<br />These sites are integral to a healthy environment, and also to future economic growth - judicious conservation is the keystone to successful development.  Here in Australia, our failing is that we don’t give our heritage much time to grow old.  Go to the UK, Mr Evans, and see what strengths and gifts a healthy National Trust can give to its nation – not a trust that is emasculated before its time.  Shame on you.</p>
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		<title>By: Felicity Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18354</link>
		<dc:creator>Felicity Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18354</guid>
		<description>Mr Evans,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many thanks for pointing out that I neglected to state my connection with Godden Mackay Logan. I should also point out that I am currently on extended leave from the organisation and working for the Dictionary of Sydney, an independent body. I am also a representative of Interpretation Australia and an active member of the History Council of NSW. More importantly however, I am a long-time patron of the HHT&#039;s properties and events. I would consider it incorrect to claim that my personal comments may be connected with commercial considerations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Evans,</p>
<p>Many thanks for pointing out that I neglected to state my connection with Godden Mackay Logan. I should also point out that I am currently on extended leave from the organisation and working for the Dictionary of Sydney, an independent body. I am also a representative of Interpretation Australia and an active member of the History Council of NSW. More importantly however, I am a long-time patron of the HHT&#8217;s properties and events. I would consider it incorrect to claim that my personal comments may be connected with commercial considerations.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18355</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18355</guid>
		<description>Gary Cook and Felicity Watson forgot to mention their connection with the Historic Houses Trust. Gary lectures for the Trust and Felicity works for Godden Mackay Logan which has been a contractor to the Trust. It always helps to know where people are coming from.&lt;br /&gt;Just for the record, Gary, I don&#039;t feel any need to provide the Trust with ideas to improve attendance at its failed museums: there are 250 people on staff and a director who&#039;s paid $300,000.00 per year. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Cook and Felicity Watson forgot to mention their connection with the Historic Houses Trust. Gary lectures for the Trust and Felicity works for Godden Mackay Logan which has been a contractor to the Trust. It always helps to know where people are coming from.<br />Just for the record, Gary, I don&#8217;t feel any need to provide the Trust with ideas to improve attendance at its failed museums: there are 250 people on staff and a director who&#8217;s paid $300,000.00 per year.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18356</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18356</guid>
		<description>It’s good to see that a debate has started in response to my criticism of the Historic Houses Trust. My point of view is that it’s time to take a long, hard look at the Trust – an organization that has grown without any real outside scrutiny or, it seems, much in the way of political control. Can we do heritage conservation and promotion better than we are right now: I think so. &lt;br /&gt;Those who have sprung to the defence of the Trust (a total of three so far) are Sydney residents. And here’s one of my points: the Historic Houses Trust is Sydney-centric. Outside of the metropolitan area people are scarcely aware of it. Yes, 60% of the people of this State live in Sydney. The other 40% are paying for the HHT but getting nothing for their money. &lt;br /&gt;If the Trust’s house museums had good visitor numbers there would be no case for looking at other ways of using them (and selling them is at the end of the spectrum of possibilities) but the sad fact is that the house museum is in its terminal throes. Visitor numbers are critically low. Why else would the Trust have cut opening hours so severely? If the houses were running in profit their doors would be open five days a week as indeed they once were. Seidler House is down to one day a week and the rest two or three. If this progression continues, the doors will shut entirely.&lt;br /&gt;The Trust is now fundamentally an event organiser – a role which it does rather well (albeit limited to Sydney). But it is handicapped by a bunch of museums which in their time were at the cutting edge of the house museums business. These are no longer working. There’s an issue here that needs addressing. &lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s good to see that a debate has started in response to my criticism of the Historic Houses Trust. My point of view is that it’s time to take a long, hard look at the Trust – an organization that has grown without any real outside scrutiny or, it seems, much in the way of political control. Can we do heritage conservation and promotion better than we are right now: I think so. <br />Those who have sprung to the defence of the Trust (a total of three so far) are Sydney residents. And here’s one of my points: the Historic Houses Trust is Sydney-centric. Outside of the metropolitan area people are scarcely aware of it. Yes, 60% of the people of this State live in Sydney. The other 40% are paying for the HHT but getting nothing for their money. <br />If the Trust’s house museums had good visitor numbers there would be no case for looking at other ways of using them (and selling them is at the end of the spectrum of possibilities) but the sad fact is that the house museum is in its terminal throes. Visitor numbers are critically low. Why else would the Trust have cut opening hours so severely? If the houses were running in profit their doors would be open five days a week as indeed they once were. Seidler House is down to one day a week and the rest two or three. If this progression continues, the doors will shut entirely.<br />The Trust is now fundamentally an event organiser – a role which it does rather well (albeit limited to Sydney). But it is handicapped by a bunch of museums which in their time were at the cutting edge of the house museums business. These are no longer working. There’s an issue here that needs addressing. </p>
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		<title>By: Gary Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/24/taxpayers-foot-the-bill-for-neglected-historic-houses/#comment-18357</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18357</guid>
		<description>Ian Evans, you are quite right. I do presentations (not lectures) for the Trust. I am also a guide at Elizabeth Bay and Vaucluse. But, I do all this as a volunteer. Therefore, my comments are as an individual and not as an employee of the Trust. While I don&#039;t profess to have your knowledge and background in heritage, I believe in preserving our history. Your comments in Crikey and previously in the Sydney Morning Herald would lead most observers to believe that you have a contrary view. You appear to have a vendetta against the Trust. If so, why not come clean. If not, then I apologise for my inference. It&#039;s difficult to reconcile your position as a heritage conservationist and author with your attitude that our history must always provide a satisfactory return on investment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian Evans, you are quite right. I do presentations (not lectures) for the Trust. I am also a guide at Elizabeth Bay and Vaucluse. But, I do all this as a volunteer. Therefore, my comments are as an individual and not as an employee of the Trust. While I don&#8217;t profess to have your knowledge and background in heritage, I believe in preserving our history. Your comments in Crikey and previously in the Sydney Morning Herald would lead most observers to believe that you have a contrary view. You appear to have a vendetta against the Trust. If so, why not come clean. If not, then I apologise for my inference. It&#8217;s difficult to reconcile your position as a heritage conservationist and author with your attitude that our history must always provide a satisfactory return on investment.</p>
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